Post any questions arising from "First Steps with RR&Co"

The speed table doesn't look quite right :-




I think 230 might be a bit wrong.  The loco started running into the double slips.  I'll take 30 cm off and see if that helps.

Bring it all with you Thursday & you can work on it while I drive.

The way I'm going, I'll have it sorted by then. 

The runs get longer, the higher the throttle setting.  It makes me think I need to switch off the momentum in the decoder.

Yep.  That was it.  John, it looks like switching off the momentum in the decoder is the go.  Is that what you found?

Just back from my jollies and all revved up ready to go, Nice to see you have made a good start with speed profiling Max heres a few of my experiences:

Test track, if i had the room i would have a test length of 2 metres and runouts lengths either side of at least two metres each, what i find is when the loco is getting up to its top speed steps i run out of track. I will make a portable test track one day just for speed profiling or a nice size oval.

Speed curve: when i have used Lokpilots and have setup the speed curve with Lokprogrammer on the decoder cv's, TC's resulting speed curve matches it exactly after profiling
However with my other decoders Lenz and TCS i have a lot of work to do to change the CV's to get a good speed curve. I don't have the means of seeing the speed curve of 3rd party decoders.

Top speed and speed steps, to stop getting silly massages from DR R. Your loco top speed e.g. 70mph, when speed profiling all your 28 steps need to be in the curve up to the top speed, i am still working on that i think it is an adjustment of CV5 max speed.

Threshold speed, yep it is great if your loco starts to crawl at speed step one.

Decoder CV's: if you program your decoder correctly and you are 100% happy with its performance i.e. its start speed and speed steps v loco speed, TC won't change or effect it.

De acceleration, CV4 i set this to 1, i let TC control the deacceleration totally through braking and stop markers.

Pete

All correct, Pete.  It's the momentum settings which seem to need to be switched off.  TC provides excellent ones in Properties.

I always have a straight linear speed table in the decoders.

Did you know that you can manipulate the speed table with the mouse in TC?  It solved a lot of problems once I realised that.

I've got 160 cm of middle block and a 30 cm block each end.  It seems to be enough so far.

Welcome back.  Sol and I are away from Thursday until next Wednesday, so you'll get some peace from me 'till then.  

Sounds good Max…….great progress

You can get that flat curve at the top if CV 5 doesnt match the properties max speed…………..and at the bottom if the loco doesnt run at the start speed

I am afraid I havent done anything with momentum on either my chips or TC…….thats something I have yet to work on:oops:

Can you bring up Dr Railroad a second time and post it so I can see what error messages are still there………there are some on your first list which will cause you anguish in the future if not corrected

To see the detail messages you need to have been operating ie running or having run a schedule…….try it next time……..it gives an insight into the way TC operates

Have fun with Sol

 

Thanks, John.  I'm picking up the hire car this arvo and packing tonight.  I'll try to get another Dr Railroad done if I can.  I still want to play around with the decoder settings vs TC to get a better handle on it all.  It's all starting to come together.  :thumbs

Sol is good company.  We've got two days travelling to get there and two days back, (approx. 3000 km round trip).  Lots of MRR chat to be had.

Hi Guyz.  We made it back safely from Newcastle.  Lots of discussion took place on the 1500 km each way trips.

I put the loco back onto the Lokprogrammer and changed the speed table, reducing the top speed to 80% which gave me scale 50 m.p.h., through the speed trap.  When I went back to TC to profile to 80 km/h, it panned out at an exact 45 degree speed table which is an exact copy of the one in the decoder.  Thanks, John.  That was good advice.  For the time being, I'll leave the momentum switched off.

My next project will include Kadee passive magnets for uncoupling, as I'm hoping to devise a shunting puzzle.  This decision has generated two questions, viz:-

For uncoupling, Kadee requires that the couplers be stopped over the magnet, the loco has to move back about 1 mm and then can move forward again, pushing the vehicle by the opened coupler.  Is that sequence possible?  Or do the magnets need to be electro?

Regards  Max

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

For uncoupling, Kadee requires that the couplers be stopped over the magnet, the loco has to move back about 1 mm and then can move forward again, pushing the vehicle by the opened coupler.  Is that sequence possible?  Or do the magnets need to be electro?

Regards  Max

Max. Kadee require back & forth irrespective of permanent or electromagnets. It is the latter that prevents un-wanted uncoupling.

Thanks, Sol.  Thinking about it, you are right.  I'm amazed that we didn't canvass it during our 40 odd hours of intense discussions over the last few days, (in the car). 

 

yes it can be done and it is in the TUTE think it went in the operations.

 

what would be good if you can have a shunting puzzle that guests try and figure out. then when they give up you can say look it is easy you just click this start button, sit back and let TC sort it all out:mrgreen:

I figured that it would be in the tutorial, Matt.  I reckon I saw it happening in Pete's movie.

I like your idea . . .  :twisted:

Good to see you are back Max………I missed my morning post:lol::lol: By chance that is what I spent most of yesterday doing

Matt is correct it is in the tutorial……….you do what Geoff calls the Kaydee shuffle as a series of operations at the end of a schedule…….eg

To uncouple

You schedule must stop with coupler over the magnet………so a precise stop marker is key

                  DELAY 3 sec

                  REVERSE    (this reverses the previous direction of travel)

                 SPEED 9 mph

                  DELAY .08 sec               

                  SPEED        (on its own this means 0 and is the same as stop)

                  DELAY 3 sec                     

 If this works you can set it up as a macro so each time you set up a shunting schedule you can enter this with one key stroke

To couple you need a second schedule with a second stop marker which will stop the loco beyond the magnet…….that way as the loco rolls back over the magnet it connects with the wagon and pushes it back beyond the magnet and couples………….I was doing this yesterday and found that I couldnt overcome the Kaydee delayed effect without having a coupling macro where the loco pushes the wagon off the magnet moves forward slightly and then back again quite sharply to couple  

If you are creating a train set (in the tutorial there is a loco and 2 carriages) there are other issues but for now I would ignore it.

The first step is to get brake and stop markers set up in your blocks and make sure you are comfortable with setting up conditions so that each schedule use the correct marker

Once you have done that try the little routine set out above.

Its very time consuming setting it up and surprise surprise occasionally very frustrating:twisted:

When it works its brilliant…….yesterday I set up a schedule sequence involving 5 schedules where a light engine moves off shed move back and forth off the shed siding, accross the main line, backs into the bay and couples with the carriage and then moves back and forth on its regular schedule……….this could be with one click to start the sequence but I did it with a time table using the TC fast clock

I would post a video but I managed to crash the computor (my fault not TC) without saving:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted: so guess what this mornings job is

Have fun and let us know how you get on

 

 

 

 

 

Max here is a piccy of my kadee shuffle, like JD says its easier to make it a macro then you can add in one lump as a finish operation in a schedule:




I had a play with speed profiling this weekend and can confirm the following observations ref acceleration and deceleration.

When programming a decoder out side of TC,  TC's manual says you should set deceleration (CV4) to minimum, i have set mine to one, this then allows TC to control the rate of deceleration through it control of the throttle instigated by the braking markers and stop markers in a block this it does, imo, very very well once the loco is speed profiled correctly.

On the other hand TC does not control acceleration, you will notice when TC starts a loco the throttle will go straight up to the programmed maximum block speed in TC, in my case snapping my passengers necks. Adjusting CV3 to give a lovely gentle acceleration outside of TC will be replicated in TC giving a gentle acceleration up to the set maximum block speed. i didn't know the latter now i do:doublethumb the momentum settings in TC have no effect on the loco if you have done speed profiling.

[user=450]wogga[/user] wrote:

When programming a decoder out side of TC,  TC's manual says you should set deceleration (CV4) to minimum, i have set mine to one, this then allows TC to control the rate of deceleration through it control of the throttle instigated by the braking markers and stop markers in a block this it does, imo, very very well once the loco is speed profiled correctly.

On the other hand TC does not control acceleration, you will notice when TC starts a loco the throttle will go straight up to the programmed maximum block speed in TC, in my case snapping my passengers necks. Adjusting CV3 to give a lovely gentle acceleration outside of TC will be replicated in TC giving a gentle acceleration up to the set maximum block speed. i didn't know the latter now i do:doublethumb the momentum settings in TC have no effect on the loco if you have done speed profiling.

I didnt know that either Pete……..although now you explain it makes perfect sense…….deceleration is a product of brake markers……………I could never understand why the train didnt accelerate in the same smooth way as it braked so I did it by reducing the schedule block max speed………which just delays the snapping of the passengers heads until the next block

If I adjust CV3 as you suggest will I then have to re profile my locos:twisted: ? 

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

If I adjust CV3 as you suggest will I then have to re profile my locos:twisted: ? 

Yes i know John:oops: but its worth it, luckily i will only have eight to do, John=speed profiling=Jazz=wine so it ain't all that bad.

[user=450]wogga[/user] wrote:

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

If I adjust CV3 as you suggest will I then have to re profile my locos:twisted: ? 

Yes i know John:oops: but its worth it, luckily i will only have eight to do, John=speed profiling=Jazz=wine so it ain't all that bad.

Thanks, John and Pete.  I was sure it was there.  I'm just so pedantic, I had to get the profile right before I moved on.  I used the trims so that the loco runs exactly at the same speed forward and reverse.  I used the speed table rather than CV5 to get a smooth speed table in TC.  It all came out beautifully.  I can easily go back to the Lokprogrammer and pop in a bit of momentum once I know how much I need, but this little loco is moving OK at the minute.

I don't have my magnets in yet.  I cleverly used Code 75, so I have some excavation work ahead to dig them in.  I also plan to do some dry runs using the LH 100 and a swizzle stick to work out exactly where they need to go.

I'm going to ask some questions later about my cabooses, which will be in the switching puzzle.  They have decoders in them which operate the lights.  It will be nice if lights on and off can become part of the sequence.

It's all good fun.  :cheers

Hi Max

Have you tried playing with stop and brake markers yet……..thats the next step

ps dont forget to print screen your current Dr Railroad

Kind Regards