Post any questions arising from "First Steps with RR&Co"

OK.  Still not understanding.  Supplementary question.  Can you have more than one Contact Indicator in each block?

When I move the loco from block to block, they change colour.  That looks like they are detecting the loco?

I tried the tutorial initially, but I couldn't understand it.  I'm glad it's not just me, Brian.  :???:

[user=449]brianpr1[/user] wrote:

[user=200]Christrerise[/user] wrote:

Just as a matter of interest re signalling, if those platforms are dead end as they appear then the signal giving access should only show a yellow.  The buffer stop is effectively a red and so the previous signal can only display a yellow in prototypical operation.  If the line is not clear to the buffer stop then not even a yellow would be displayed, but instead the calling on signal would be illuminated. 

Just for info.

My station is a similar layout to Pete's so that's useful for me too.

What's the situation for departures?  I plan to use a 3 aspect Advanced Starter far enough ahead to allow an empty train to shunt from one platform to another without entering the block ahead. The yellow would be the distant for the virtual box ahead. If the starting signals are single arm stop semaphores, am I right that they would authorise a move up to but not beyond the advanced starter? If they are colour lights, what would I need?  My guess would be red/green interlocked to the adv. starter, but then I guess I would need shunt signals of some sort.  Do you know what the rules would be?

To save clogging this thread, continued here

Max,

I doubt if there is anyone less qualified than me to answer, but until John Dew returns to port, here goes.

Yes, you can set up several contact indicators in one block, but you need a good reason to justify the expense. I'm still tracklaying and I have put insulated joiners in to divide two of my platform blocks into three track circuits each. In my case it is to use two spare detectors, but it gives me a way to detect a loco coming in to an occupied block, where the stationary loco (and in future, possibly, a lighted train) is in one track circuit and the incoming loco triggers another.

Until I know the reason for using contact buttons rather than the way shown in Juergen's tutorial, I will continue without them. You appear to be doing the same and, as you say, your engines are detected as they move around.

It is not totally clear in the manual, but you can drag a pink rectangle in the block editor to expose the blue background beneath. Then you just follow the same procedure for the second indicator as you did for the first.

Hope this helps,
Brian

Thanks Brian.  That's answered something for me.  I can only have one Contact Indicator for each LB 101 I have.  The LB 101s allowed me to set up the blocks, but I can't see what the Contact Indicators actually do as yet.

I'm glad I didn't try this on my main layout.

I don't need the locos to trigger turnouts etc.  The turnouts will be set up by a matrix.

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Thanks Brian.  That's answered something for me.  I can only have one Contact Indicator for each LB 101 I have.

Max, are you sure about that? I don't use Lenz, but I've just looked at the LB 101 manual and it says there are two detectors on each board. The diagram shows two connections to the track at one end and the LR 101 at the other.

If you wire it exactly as shown in the manual (except successive LBs moving up the input clamp numbers on the LR) then you would put four LB 101s to one LR 101 so you would have eight feedbacks to your command station and from there to TC.

Each LB 101 can monitor two track circuits, so with four LBs you can have eight isolated sections of your track wired to LBs. At the other end, the reading from each of those sections is fed back to TC in the form of contact indicator addresses showing occupied or clear.

So long as you know the address for each LR you can tell TC to use its eight inputs in eight separate blocks or some blocks with two or three contact indicators, whatever suits your needs, but you will always have eight occupancy readings in the form of contact indicators coming from each set of eight sections of track, four LBs and one LR. If you allocate two contact indicators to one block then the block will go pink if either one of the indicators is on.

I'm sorry if this is telling you what you already know, it's difficult to decide what you know and what you don't at a distance.

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Thanks for that, Matt.  I can't see your attachment without going back to the email and toggling back and forth, but I can see where they are by doing that.  I'm still in the dark as to what they do.  They can't be for occupancy as the blocks change to pink when they are occupied.

Can you explain in words of one syllable or less what I'm going to do with them?  Sorry for being thick, but I would like to understand it before I move on.   :oops:

Hi Max,

The contact detector symbols are NOT necessary if you are only using the LB101 occupancy detectors for blocks.

As you have found out yourself, you can easily assign an occupancy detector to a block within the block properties.

It is possible within TC to have occupancy detectors that are NOT associated with a block, so then you would HAVE to show them in the Switchboard diagram as a contact detector symbol.

I hope that explanation helps.

By the way, if you are not controlling turnouts digitally, I don't think that you can use TC to run schedules, as it would then want to set up the routes itself. There is a  table on page 76 of the manual which might help to show what can and can't be handled in the various possible modes of using TC.

Sorry, Brian.  What I meant to say is that each half of each LB 101 has a block assigned to it.  I forgot that I have two detectors built in to each LB 101.

Geoff, I am controlling the turnouts digitally using an LS 150.  TC is able to change them from the screen.  I'll probably have to re-assign them as I had to make another Track Plan.

TC should be able to make a route and run the train along it.

That is great, Max. So you will be able to use schedules, then. I misunderstood your reference to controlling turnouts with a matrix.

The only time that you might want a contact indicator on your switchboard, then, would be if you wanted to detect a loco within pointwork in an area that you had not designated as a block. It is possible to have an occupancy detector for a small section of track that you then use as a trigger for TC to set something else in motion.

Thanks, Geoff.  I won't spend any more time worrying about them, then.  I'll make a start on re-assigning the turnout motors to the Track Plan tonight.

Then I guess it will be time to start loading the locos on to the system.    :pedal

I started by loading just one loco and then played with the system just driving it around the track. I found that an easy way to get started and to learn about how TC handled things. You can also set up a simple schedule with the one loco and check that TC takes it through the appropriate blocks as you would expect.

Things like speed profiling and getting all of the locos onto TC are still in my to do list, but I have learnt quite a bit about the system and can show people how I drive trains with the computer. (Still in demo mode, incidentally!)

 

[user=449]brianpr1[/user] wrote:

John,

Agreed about the need on the real track, but Juergen's tutorial in the manual sets up blocks without using a red dot on the block diagram, he just uses the pink rectangle. I'm not sure why you do it differently, but your way allows the block in the sim to be switched on and off with the mouse which is an advantage when playing around with the sim. Is there more to it than that?

I placed the contact indicator symbol on the track plan just for the tutorial because it seemed to me easier to explain the separate steps needed to set up a block and then link it to an existing contact indicator.

Secondly, you are correct, it makes it easier to use the simulator

On my own layout I dont bother to display the contact indicator on the track diagram…….if I need to edit the properties I do it using the block editor. 

 

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

I tried the tutorial initially, but I couldn't understand it.  I'm glad it's not just me, Brian.  :???:

:hmmThats disappointing………..hopefully you just mean the section on blocks/contact indicators?

If you can highlight the paragraphs that you couldnt understand I could try and re write ithem

Anyway it looks as though Geoff has solved the problem…………..Each block must have a contact indicator associated with it but you dont have to display the contact indicator symbol on the track plan 

Max

i use the s88 occupancy detectors, when i first learned TC i learned to add the occupancy detector. i was unaware that you didn't need to use them. i am still learning. glad you sorted out the issue. i was confused when you said the blocks are showing occupied when you have no contact indicator.

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

 

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

I tried the tutorial initially, but I couldn't understand it.  I'm glad it's not just me, Brian.  :???:

:hmmThats disappointing………..hopefully you just mean the section on blocks/contact indicators?

If you can highlight the paragraphs that you couldnt understand I could try and re write ithem

Hi John - I am fairly sure that Max and Brian are talking about the tutorial style examples in the manual and NOT your tutorial thread in this forum.

Hope you are enjoying the ocean?

Hi John.  Are you on a cruise?  I'm getting the impression that TC can be configured in more than one way to suit the individual.  That may explain why I was mystified by the Contact Indicators.  They seem to be trigger points and not necessarily used by everyone.  I've left them off for the moment.

Thanks, Matt.

What I plan to do is load the turnouts into the new Track Plan and then start driving locos as suggested by Geoff which should help me learn more.  I have still got 2 LB 101s spare and two ports free on an LR 101, so if/when I find I need trigger points I can add them in as required.

Onward and Upward . . . 2% gradient, of course :exclam

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

Hi John - I am fairly sure that Max and Brian are talking about the tutorial style examples in the manual and NOT your tutorial thread in this forum.

Hope you are enjoying the ocean?

Thats a relief:cheers 

I dont doubt that sections of the (my) tutorial need clarifying………..I just need pointing in the right direction.

Summer has finally come to BC……78o  today with a nice 20 knot westerly. We have spent the last 5 days in the Gulf Islands which (for those who dont know already) are one of the worlds best kept secrets. Fabulous cruising grounds thru a chain of islands, about 25 miles from the Mainland and sheltered from the Pacific by Vancouver Island……..right now it is Gin and Tonic time…..steel band music and shortly a fabulous sun set……doesnt get much better:thumbs

Back to the mainland on Wednesdsy for a few days and then we are off again with a friend flying in from the UK

(I even did some modelling…..painting the seemingly endless walls for Granby!)

 

:doublethumb I have managed unaided and unassisted to configure the turnouts and even got the double slips POINTING THE RIGHT WAY (S).  I have driven a train through correctly aligned turnouts - and back again.  Oh Bliss!!

Now.  I need help with a couple of minor things, please.  (always polite)

1.  How does one activate the function buttons (horn, bell etc) ?

2.  How does one add a second and subsequent loco to the roster?

Newbie of Blackwood.

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

 

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

I tried the tutorial initially, but I couldn't understand it.  I'm glad it's not just me, Brian.  :???:

:hmmThats disappointing………..hopefully you just mean the section on blocks/contact indicators?

If you can highlight the paragraphs that you couldnt understand I could try and re write ithem

Anyway it looks as though Geoff has solved the problem…………..Each block must have a contact indicator associated with it but you dont have to display the contact indicator symbol on the track plan 

Sorry, John.  Just found the post.  There's nothing wrong with the tutorial.  Once I forgot about the Contact Indicators and went straight to the blocks, I was right.  Now I'm driving locos I can see where you are coming from.

It's a huge subject, John.  For someone like me with a single digit IQ it's like drinking from a fire hydrant. 

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Now.  I need help with a couple of minor things, please.  (always polite)

1.  How does one activate the function buttons (horn, bell etc) ?



Newbie of Blackwood.

Max i will try to help you with this one. i have no experience of this but its will give you a heads up i hope.

When you set up a schedule e.g Block A to Block B you can edit operations that happen at the beginning or end of the schedule.

When you click to edit a scedule a dialogue box opens, Under the general tab you will see a section called Operations, so if for example you want to whistle before the train departs you can try this.

On the start operation click the arrow to the right of list and a drop down list of operations appears move the slider and you should see sound options amongst others available, select whistle so that means the whistle should sound,

Now i expect that your loco should have to be set up in TC and have its functions allocated and edited correctly and one be a whistle.

Now if i am correct when that schedule starts the whistle should sound.

You will eventually use the start and finish operations in a schedule a lot. For example i use a list (which is a whole sequence of functions and operations in one place) to perform John's Kadee shuffle to uncouple my locos from the wagons at the end of a schedule.

There a multitude of operations you can do from operationg functions to doing everthing from signal operations, changing points or even starting another schedule on cue.

Good luck max its a big step.

Pete

Hi Pete

Sorry, I didn't ask the question properly.  When I'm driving the train I should be able to toot the horn, for example.  On the Lenz I press button 2.  The same on Zug.  The throttle on TC doesn't seem to have any function buttons on it.  Therefore I'm guessing I need to activate or allocate or whatever the right word is, the different functions to the TC throttle.

I can also only load one loco (train) on to the roster.  Each new one replaces the first.  Any ideas on that?

Cheers  Max