Post any questions arising from "First Steps with RR&Co"

Pete

Someone with your type of end to end layout has a difficult time trying to run in locos It may well be worth your while getting a rolling road of some sort to run in plus helps if checking for runng problems in a static position.

I know Owen has made some up cheaply its in the index somewhere i think the cheapest buying option which is ok for steam engines but not for double bogied diesals is the Hornby rolling road which i have myself. there are others but the price can climb steeply but to be fair you get what you pay for.

New locos that have problems yes that occurs in sure in the factories the engines get a quick 2 second burst of power both ways if that works its put in the box i cetainly dont think they are put on a test bed and run for 5 minutes each way at differant speeds

they probably work on an an expected 2% failure rate or something.

Another thing worth checking new engines can sometimes have dirty and greasy wheels plus on the inside edge where the pick ups contact  Heljan engines i have bought i have always had to clean the wheels before they work properly

Brian

Hi Brian, yes last nights escapade has given me a wake up call and do a pre run inspection on the loco's, so now i have another Fowler and the Stanier to inspect carefully under a magnifying glass.

If they can run as well and as reliably as the Fairburns then i will be sorted.

I must put a Lenz decoder to test as a comparison for the hell of it, at the moment i have rated Lokpilot at number one, but value for money (and easy of install due to their size)its TCS, which i know is a popular choice.

Must get on with some other stuff though or it will never be finished.

Brian i am led to beleive you may have a great collection of backscenes?;-)

Pete
Yes i do have a lot of backscenes i need to upload them to some server space the one they were on before the domain name ran out and i did not want to renew it so i will have to upload them elsewhere i will let everyone know when they have returned.

Brian

Time for a signal question i thinks, despite my early confidence in setting up two aspect signals i have a problem Houston.

in the diagram below i have ringed the 3 two aspect signals that control access to platforms 3 - 1 left to right. When the schedule is running and the train enters the branch the respective home signal turns green dependant on the platform the schedule is running in to no problems here at all it works lovely.




The problem is when a departing train leaves a platform the corrosponding signal changes to green despite the fact it is travelling in the opposite direction! potential for a theoretical collision here, so its not right

The "triggers" to change to green, are the points into the station set correctly and empty occupancy on the platform, which i think would be a reasonable assumption. Now in the "conditions" i have put in only the arriving schedules, but they still go green when a train departs? Now i have tried allsorts including making the return schedule set to to red but they don't.

Therefore can i assume that the triggers are overriding the conditions, obviously the points have to be set that way to get the train on the right track!

Any pointers wiould be appreciated.

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete

This isnt very elegant but should work 

Limit the trigger to the points for each signal

Make it a condition that the platform block is unoccupied AND the signal controlling exits from the storage yard is red

Change the storage yard signal to green as an operation at the start of each schedule that leaves the storage yard

Change it back to Red by using an Action Marker in the intermediate block which will be activated when a train enters from the storage yards 

Hope this helps

Hi John and Pete,

Although my time is going into the YMR module, I am trying to keep up with RR&Co, so I thought I would try out Pete's signalling concern with a simple test myself. An interesting thing I find is that because the scheduler reserves blocks ahead, on the simple switchboard I have created, the signal goes back to red as soon as the station block is reserved, and at that time the train is still two blocks away and has not reached the signal!!  All using the simulator, I should add.

Hi Geoff that is probably because the rules tab for the schedule may have the "smart look ahead box" checked in look ahead, if you uncheck the smart box then check the look ahead you can specify how many blocks you want to reserve ahead i have selected 1.

I am in a hotel for next few nights so i will have peace and quiet to try John's suggestions and any you can cook up Geoff.

Hi Pete,

Okay, I am now with you. Doing it your way, I find that the trigger needs to be something that changes. If I start with the platform unoccupied and the points already set correctly and the signal at red, then it never changes to green during the schedule, because there is actually no trigger.

However, when the train leaves, the station goes from occupied to unoccupied so the trigger occurs and the signal goes green, although the train behind the engine will still be in the station block, and hence your concern.

One thing I have discovered and that is when you set the schedule as a condition, you can set whether the train is going forward (a green arrow) or backwards (a red arrow). If I set it for forward, the signal only operates when entering the station. If I set it for backward, the signal only operates when leaving the station.

Any help?

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

Hi John and Pete,

Although my time is going into the YMR module, I am trying to keep up with RR&Co, so I thought I would try out Pete's signalling concern with a simple test myself. An interesting thing I find is that because the scheduler reserves blocks ahead, on the simple switchboard I have created, the signal goes back to red as soon as the station block is reserved, and at that time the train is still two blocks away and has not reached the signal!!  All using the simulator, I should add.

Geoff

Is this with the TC block signals or signals you have inserted on the layout as per Pete

Pete

I think the smart look ahead options etc relate to only to the block signals not signals that you install

 

 

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

Hi Pete,

Okay, I am now with you. Doing it your way, I find that the trigger needs to be something that changes. If I start with the platform unoccupied and the points already set correctly and the signal at red, then it never changes to green during the schedule, because there is actually no trigger. 

You are right Geoff I now realise you need both as a trigger:oops::oops:

However, when the train leaves, the station goes from occupied to unoccupied so the trigger occurs and the signal goes green, although the train behind the engine will still be in the station block, and hence your concern.

But I think my suggestion will fix this

One thing I have discovered and that is when you set the schedule as a condition, you can set whether the train is going forward (a green arrow) or backwards (a red arrow). If I set it for forward, the signal only operates when entering the station. If I set it for backward, the signal only operates when leaving the station.

 

The direction arrow on schedules is very useful as a condition……..the problem is if you have a lot of schedules you have to remember to enter each one……thats why I always try and search for a global solution if I can

ps I think your module is fantastic

 

 

 

 

 

John and Geoff sorted thanks, lessons learnt don't get exicited with triggers and conditions i.e don't have too many aka Keep It Simple Stupid !cheers John for that pointer. Secondly a trigger won't work unless something triggers cheers Geoff that was a doh! moment.

The only "condition" is that the respective platform occupancy must be empty to allow a green signal.

Here the the triggers for platform ones approach and is replicated for the other platforms with the correct point settings.


Having that branchline exit block signal set as a trigger for green sorts out the direction issue because if the trains are coming into the branch from the platforms that block signal is red so i don't get the green in the wrong direction.

So only when that block signal is green will my home signals for access to the station platforms will be green easy when you suss it.

Another thing that annoyed me was once the train passed the green signal to enter the station it stayed green until the train occupied the platform block, so even though the train had passed the signal it didn't go to red to protect the train. i resolved this by a trigger for the red signal that the branch block is unoccupied a red signal is shown so when the branch block is unoccupied only a red signal can be shown. So the moment the loco passes the green it changes to red to protect the rear
 of the train.




Thanks chaps mission successful.

Regards

 

Pete

I think that is a neat solution, Pete. Did not realise that there were as many options within the "block" selection for triggers and conditions. Also realised that I had not been using the block unoccupied option before in the condition, but the block unreserved option instead. That is why the signal went red on my little test switchboard with the reserve ahead blocks.

Also, running under the simulator I don't get the problem you have solved for immediately setting red after the engine has passed the signal. The simulator just thinks the blocks are adjacent (actually I have not included any pointwork anyway!!). Something to remember when I get back to the real thing to allow for time taken over pointwork before reaching the next block. In my case at the Mangarth Junction, I have some significant lengths of pointwork to cross after the main approach signals.

Incidentally - for John as well - I have played with the above tests only in Silver - so no limitations there, apparently!

Congratulations Pete…………..the various ways to solve a problem on TC are amazing? 

 

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

Something to remember when I get back to the real thing to allow for time taken over pointwork before reaching the next block. In my case at the Mangarth Junction, I have some significant lengths of pointwork to cross after the main approach signals.

Incidentally - for John as well - I have played with the above tests only in Silver - so no limitations there, apparently!

There is a school of thought that is in favour of creating occupancy detectors for blocks of points…….there was a longish thread on the other forum……TTG is a big fan of this but I think that is because he started with V3……with V7 there are a lot of different ways to protect the rear of the train over a long section of points.

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

the various ways to solve a problem on TC are amazing?
[

That is so true John, but it is easy to lose your way with all the different permutations thats why a forum question when you know there are some clever people out there solves many a heartache.

Pete

Just as a matter of interest re signalling, if those platforms are dead end as they appear then the signal giving access should only show a yellow.  The buffer stop is effectively a red and so the previous signal can only display a yellow in prototypical operation.  If the line is not clear to the buffer stop then not even a yellow would be displayed, but instead the calling on signal would be illuminated. 

Just for info.

Chris so my 3 arm signal on approach to the station should be Yellow and red, and not green red as shown?

Pete

Correct, but only if it bothers you!

Chris cheers for that i haven't got them yet so if they are available i will have them.

 

Pete

I have just downloaded a trial version of Itrain its a similar thing to the railroad program but a lot cheaper i presume it is not as sophisticated  it works in demo mode and i am awaiting a registration key to evaluate it properly
Price wise if it works i would consider this whereas the railroad one to much for me

Heres a link if you are interested
Ps its another one man band

http://berros.eu/itrain/en/index.php

Brian

Brian, there is a chap on Modelrail Forum, his user name is Chrismac. He is using itrain and ECOS, he does beta testing on itrain. He is a helpful chap and i am sure if you get stuck he will give you help.

Pete