Post any questions arising from "First Steps with RR&Co"

[user=450]wogga[/user] wrote:

Just on loco profiling (like John i have been doing a fair bit recently) i have setup a special profiling track because my layout does not have enough length to do profiling, with my experience the run out track needs to be at least twice the length of the test track i.e. profile length is 1metre then the runouts either end need to be at least 2 metres each, this will allow the loco to accelerate and deaccelerate under its own control, anything less the loco is still accelerating into the test length and will give skewed results.

 

Pete

I hadnt realised you had set up a separate profiling plank…………….I think its a good idea which I am already seriously cosidering. Right now I use a storage road which plays havoc with the chimney pots in the town centre!

I am intrigued by the lengths you are using ………………I thought (both from the Manual and RMWeb) that the key thing was to have the measuring block as long as possible………….mine is 60"……………   The discussion on the start/run off block length centres on the run off not the start and has to be sufficient both for the loco to stop and for TC to have sufficient time to re calibrate……………….there is a time delay you can increase if needed as well. My run off is 24" so my ratio is in inverse proportion to yours?

My profiling generally works very accurately

Although yesterday I ran into a problem with a 14xx which is not the smoothest performer at slow speeds (traction tyres and only 2 wheel pick ups :twisted:)

I fiddlled with the CVs and reduced the Max speed to 25 mph and appeared to get a much better performance at low speeds…… except that TC insisted on producing a flat line (no curve at all) at lower speeds. For 5 speed steps the speed was the same…… 6 mph………I also found I needed enormouse brake compensation (150) to pass my 12" at 8 mph brake test…………..I guess that should have been my red light…………….when I tested it with schedules I found previously proven stop markers required significant adjustment……..and brake markers were even more erratic…………….wasted almost a day on it

Thinking about it having speed steps achieving identical mid range speeds cant be good…….so I think I need increase the Max speed to about 30 mph to allow for a different speed at each of the 28 step……adjust the CVs and reprofile the loco yet again    …………….I will let you know how I get on

 

[user=450]wogga[/user] wrote:

I think there is only Matt to splash the cash, 
Pete

No, I'm still here, trailing a long way behind and moving slowly, but I will get there. I hope I can buy it before the inevitable price increase.

Brian

[user=449]brianpr1[/user] wrote:

No, I'm still here, trailing a long way behind and moving slowly, but I will get there. I hope I can buy it before the inevitable price increase.

Brian


Hi Brian , sorry thought you already had silver and were debating upgrading, how's things going anyway, have you finalised your layout?

John, i only tell TC the runout is 30cm because i think that is the point it starts to de-accelarate when i observe at high speed, My concern is that when it hits the test point i feel it should be at the speed for that decoder notch hence the longer lengths either side of the test portion. My test track is made up of 3 lengths of 1 yard peco with buffers at either end which is 1 yard test and 1 yard at each end for the runout which isn't long enough as they crash the buffers at the higher speeds hence my theory of twice the test length minimum. I catch the loco and hold it while it builds up a bit of speed then let it go which is cheating but it seems to work for me.

I suppose you could use an oval as long as it doesn't encroach onto the other end zone, i think Brian uses an oval?

Below is the speed profile for one of the reliable Fairburns.

(Click to enlarge)

[user=450]wogga[/user] wrote:

I think there is only Matt to splash the cash, its a big step but in Matt's case he is going with 12 S88's he will acheive nowt on the trial. I still think £400 is a lot of money especially for indvidual layouts, clubs yes a fair price. 

I am still here and still preparing to purchase and still unsure whether to go Gold or Silver. My problem with the 511 and accessory decoders has been fixed by a software upgrade which is in the post to me, so all should be fine very soon.

My biggest problem at the moment is time. Every bit I have is going into the module for the YMR show in September. So I doubt that I will move beyond the demo RR&Co software before then. In the meantime, I am continuing to follow everyone else's progress, trying to learn as much as I can from you all as you move forward.

Hi Pete,

Like Geoff, I'm watching with interest, but I haven't  opened the demo for weeks. I want to get a reasonable amount of track working before I try the demo again.

The layout is "finalised" for about the tenth time: I doubt if I can be sure of the final shape until all the track is down, and even then…. who knows?

My attempts at profiling were hampered by the 15min. rule, I used a U shape in settrack and had to keep shortening the timed section to stay within 15 min. As you say, the 15min makes evaluation difficult: without profiles much of the potential accuracy is lost, so the demo is not much better than an expansion of the manual, you can't compare the results with the real thing, I guess.

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

I am still here and still preparing to purchase and still unsure whether to go Gold or Silver.


Hi Geoff, its a big decision about £200, i had to go to gold because even though my layout is only small i needed to loco exchange (join/separate)which is only available with Gold!

I guess there are quite a few other features i am using which i suspect are only in Gold such as some of the "rules".

You are in the right spot i have only been at it a few months but have learnt such a lot from John & co.

Regards

Pete

[user=449]brianpr1[/user] wrote:

Hi Pete,


My attempts at profiling were hampered by the 15min. rule, I used a U shape in settrack and had to keep shortening the timed section to stay within 15 min. As you say, the 15min makes evaluation difficult: without profiles much of the potential accuracy is lost, so the demo is not much better than an expansion of the manual, you can't compare the results with the real thing, I guess.

I think it is a very calculated (aka cunningly) 15 mins Brian, and when you are getting to end of tracklaying and control installation you have to test fully in my opinion before you can do some serious scenery just incase you have to rip stuff up.

It can be very frustrating!
Pete

You are right about the over run Pete (althogh I dont think it affects the profile) I had forgotten I have to set the points at both ends of the storage yard to allow for it……………maybe I will have to rethink my idea of a separate track

Your Fairburn profile illustrates my dilemma……………….it is clear from the curve that the loco moves very well at slow speeds but even though you have set a maximum speed of 100 kmh (and how often will you do that) at speed step 28 the loco will do just short of 200 kmh……………..I imagine that Dr Railroad is getting excited and of course you are only using 50% of TCs internal steps

I have couple of locos like that…………..they run perfectly satisfactorily so I just ignore Dr Railroad and focus on more pressing issues like the 14xx…………….but for me the nagging doubt lingers would the ok loco run even better if I adjusted the cv and reprofiled………………….too many things to do and not enough time……and I am retired

Regards

 


 

Thanks for all your answers.  I'll have a good look at it all tonight.  I really hoped that by buying the Gold, simple things like driving double slips wouldn't be a problem.

The computer can see the stick OK.  I think it is because I am using the old track plan I made before the stick arrived.  At one point the cursor disappeared.  On reflection, it was probably at about 15 minutes.  I had to turn off the computer and turn it back on to get going again.

It's going to be a pain to draw the track plan again, but it's better to do it now than later when I have added more parts to it.

Cheers  Max

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

I imagine that Dr Railroad is getting excited and of course you are only using 50% of TCs internal steps

I have couple of locos like that…………..they run perfectly satisfactorily so I just ignore Dr Railroad and focus on more pressing issues like the 14xx…………….but for me the nagging doubt lingers would the ok loco run even better if I adjusted the cv and reprofiled………………….too many things to do and not enough time……and I am retired

Regards

 


 

John Dr Railroad doesn't show anything? i have just been doing some loco exchanges tonight and all is well, some uncoupling (still using tension locks and the kadee shuffle)and coupling. All oK. If anything the Fairburns stop at the right spot but with slightly different braking actions and on occasions a really slow 1 mph crawl to the stop? so not perfect.
I too am tempted to do a bit of tweaking and more PROFILING! but shall chill for a bit and see how i can get a temporary fit 5 metre profiling track in the house without decapitating er indoors!

In the hotel tomorrow so i shall do a timetable again that will keep me out of the bar.

Regards
P

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Thanks for all your answers.  I'll have a good look at it all tonight.  I really hoped that by buying the Gold, simple things like driving double slips wouldn't be a problem.

The computer can see the stick OK.  I think it is because I am using the old track plan I made before the stick arrived.  At one point the cursor disappeared.  On reflection, it was probably at about 15 minutes.  I had to turn off the computer and turn it back on to get going again.

It's going to be a pain to draw the track plan again, but it's better to do it now than later when I have added more parts to it.

Cheers  Max

[1] Once set up double slips are no problem Max……………….seem my previous post.

[2] You shouldnt have to redraw the plan…………….a couple of suggestions

                     [a] Try copying the files and open them under another name

                      Try copying and then renaming the Back up Files and try them

                     [c] Try emailing Juergen Freiwald privately or posting on the RR &Co Forum

Good Luck

 

 

 

 

[user=450]wogga[/user] wrote:

John Dr Railroad doesn't show anything? 

As in nothing at all??  Try deliberately giving two turnouts the same name and connection number…………you should get a message if you select Dr Railroad on the main train menu……………..its quite handy for that……I have got in the habit of checking fairly regularly

I would have expected a message for the Fairburn asking you to adjust the Max Speed CV to bring it in line with the Max Speed you have set up in the profile 

Regards

Thanks, John.  It's not likely to be TC.  It's usually something I've done in my usual ham-fisted way.  The LS 150 is set for 2 seconds, which is plenty.  TC should only need to pulse the address and the LS 150 should do the rest.  We'll see.  I'm not that far ahead as yet.  :lol:

Ah! apologies John, i thought Dr Railroad and the messages window were one and the same, but no learnt something else again. Had a quick flick into DR R and yes it is full of notices!

I will have study tomorrow night in the sim and see what appears.

Regards

Pete

OK.  Thanks to John I clicked the radio button  3/4 and the double slip addresses appeared.

Now.  I have found part of the problem with start up.  I was opening an old schematic from the trial days.  I have deleted it and now when it asks for the code I just close that box and TC opens up.

There are three other files with the schematic.  1.bak  1.yrs and  1.yrw   Are these necessary or can they be deleted as well?

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

Hope this helps Max

Fiddling the output configuration took a while and was easiest as a two person job………..one changing the configuration and the other testing by running a wagon

John, I have hooked up LEDs which show the path through all of the turnouts (including the single ones) from a circuit given to me by Sol.  I'm hoping it will be helpful when setting them up.




If I keep the overhead lights off, I can easily see the pathway change from where I'm sitting.  Do you think that it will make it a bit easier?  I guess I'll know soon.  :oops:

Now I have all the turnouts configured and named.  I put in 2 seconds just to be sure.  I'm not understanding the text about testing them.  When I click on them, the Ops icon appears and the symbols change, but I don't hear the satisfying zzzzzzzzzzz from the Tortoises.  The Edit icon is still hilighted.  Yes, I have the layout turned on . . . :lol:

The LS 150 is working as I can change the turnouts both with the LH 100 and using Zug on the computer, but nothing happens when I change them in TC.  I told you I was thick!  :oops:

So, I'm not making much progress.  I'll try putting some text in.  When I hit the OK button, I can only see text in two of the squares.  I tried right click dragging, left click dragging Ctrl dragging.  No luck.  I finally froze the computer.

I think I'll go and watch Inspector Rex until someone saves me . . .   :thud

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Now I have all the turnouts configured and named.  I put in 2 seconds just to be sure.  I'm not understanding the text about testing them.  When I click on them, the Ops icon appears and the symbols change, but I don't hear the satisfying zzzzzzzzzzz from the Tortoises.  The Edit icon is still hilighted.  Yes, I have the layout turned on . . . :lol:

The LS 150 is working as I can change the turnouts both with the LH 100 and using Zug on the computer, but nothing happens when I change them in TC.  I told you I was thick!  :oops:

Max, have you tried clicking on the points in the Switchboard window when in operational mode, not edit mode? When I do that, the route for the point direction changes on the schematic in the window AND the point in question moves due to the command sent to the accessory decoder.

(Stupid question, but I suppose that you have set the accessory decoder addresses in the point properties in TC?)

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Now.  I have found part of the problem with start up.  I was opening an old schematic from the trial days.  I have deleted it and now when it asks for the code I just close that box and TC opens up.

 

With the dongle in it should recognise you have a key at once and boot up at once without asking for the code.

There are three other files with the schematic.  1.bak  1.yrs and  1.yrw   Are these necessary or can they be deleted as well?

 

Nuke them………….there are 3 database files for each layout blus a back up…………….these are all associated with layout 1