NotMutley - take 2
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Freelance 00 layout
[user=2170]Colin W[/user] wrote:Perhaps my videos will provide some greater conviction. The videos are both with the original ESU Sound chipThere are lots of variables kicking around in this discussion which has the potential to lead to confusion. To summarise what we know.
Good running models of Second Generation releases of the Dean Goods ( the one with a coreless motor and one flywheel) do exist that operate under slow running conditions and DCC control.
I've had mine running with both its original Loksound V4.0 by ESU as purchased and later with a DCC Concepts Zen Nano. I did not need to turn off BEMF to achieve this good running but did anyway. Others lucky enough to get a good one seem to have had no issues with using DCC, reported here and on RMWeb topic.
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(I would have edited the previous post, save for editing tending to cause embedded videos to do a Cheshire Cat disappearing trick)
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Thanks Phil,Is it possible/easy to exchange a decoder from another loco, at least you will know for sure if the other decoders are bad and will save you buying another one only to find that it doesn't work?
Are all coreless motors the same?
I made a bulk purchase of ESU Lokpilot decoders just before I lost my mojo and used one of them initially, I then tried a Lenz silver decoder which gave much the same result. Following John's suggestion I now have a Zimo decoder on route from the UK which may take some time to arrive as COVID appears to have slowed overseas deliveries from Europe/UK to a snail pace.
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Hi Nigel, I use a cheap "no brand" transformer for DC( I think it originally was part of a train set) as it is only used for running in motors but it works very well across all speeds.Hi Dave,
Just read the thread. Runs OK on DC, not so good (jerky?) on DCC. Swapping decoders and playing around with CVs still gives jerky progress. This quite a common problem apparently (lack of QC and QA by Oxford and a lot of others in not making sure the decoder is optimized for the motor).
What is the DC system you are using? Most DC controllers output at low power is fairly smooth PWM (unless it's a cheap and nasty one), just like DCC, except the peaks tend to be a lot smoother than DCC (which is straight up/down). Coreless motors have a lot less torque than cored ones, and unless it's a decent one ($$$ as opposed to $ for cheap ones) will tend to chatter at low speed unless well designed (smooth low speed and coreless is probably an oxymoron). The same as DC motors, you get what you (or Oxford) paid for. The other thingto keep in mind is that coreless motors were designed for pure DC, not DCC.
Looks like you will need to play around a long time with a bunch of CVs to get it smoothed out (CV 2, 10, 209, 210, 212, 213 and 214) and switch BEMF off. ESU and Zimo decoders are supposed to automatically come up with the best combination for coreless motors.
The other thing to keep in mind is that DC benefits a bit from those RF capacitors, DCC usually doesn't, especially with BEFM on. I usually get rid of them.
Nigel
This loco is the first one I have purchased with a coreless motor hence my lack of knowledge on the subject. I have removed the capacitor and switched BEMF off when trying to get the ESU Lockpilot V1 and Lenz decoders to work. Fiddling with the CV's did improve the slow running but not entirely hence I have taken up John's suggestion and ordered a Zimo. ( Given that my decoders are dated as they were purchased a few years ago) Hopefully when it arrives and is installed with John's recommended CVs the problem will be resolved ( fingers and toes crossed)
Last edit: by gdaysydney
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Thanks for posting the videos Colin, The sound really does add to the atmosphere and like John you have shown that the loco can run at very slow speed.And I forgot to add that running was just as steady when I swapped out the sound chip and installed an older style DCC Concepts Zen Nano.
(I would have edited the previous post, save for editing tending to cause embedded videos to do a Cheshire Cat disappearing trick)
I am hoping that the Zimo will solve the problem and that I don't have a dud motor!
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Cheers Pete.
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Remind me to invite you to my next poker night :twisted:I'd hazard a bet that the Zimo will work all right. They haven't let me down yet.
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Where's that game of poker happening?
Cheers Pete.
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[user=1120]peterm[/user] wrote:Remind me to invite you to my next poker night :twisted:I'd hazard a bet that the Zimo will work all right. They haven't let me down yet.
'Petermac
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I've put the mockers on myself. I plugged an unused MX600 into the MXTAPS and it wouldn't read it. I could drive the motor and set CV's but not read them back. I tried it on the ESU tester… same result. An MX631 read back perfectly. I've tried several resets and might try some more tomorrow, but I'm not hopeful. It's certainly not worth sending it back to England or Austria so I'm stuck with it.
Where's that game of poker happening?
Now that reminds me of the W C Fields quote!
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One of the enduring greats of his time.
Cheers Pete.
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My Zimo decoders arrived today - Two MX617 - The first one I opened had a loose pin on the 8 pin plug - something I had not seen before but after plugging it into the loco I was able to program as normal so hopefully no further issues.
The loco ran nice and slowly just using the default CV's - albeit the motor or gears were making a strange "scratching sound" at the first two speed steps. I will have a play with the CVs later (I was keen to test the performance of the Zimo decoder and didn't have enough time.)
Thank you John for the recommendation - I will adjust the CVs as you recommended in your earlier post.
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Tidying up can be like Christmas in that you find things you had completely forgotten about and that is what I am discovering at the moment. I rediscovered a box containing an American SD7 locomotive that I had purchased second hand on a whim at a train fair some 9-10 years ago. I can't remember why I purchased them as the condition was marked as "fair". Anyway I had never opened the box so I did so for the first time today and discovered that for A$100 I had purchased not one but two locos !! I then discovered they both had decoders and ran straight out of the box. Further the previous owner had profiled them.
That brings me to track cleaning - I have a CMX track cleaner - what better to guide it around the layout than two American locos- Baltimore and Ohio SD7s No 763 and 764. Now on cleaning duty as a consist on my otherwise very British layout.
I no longer use alcohol in the CMX but using an electrical lubricant MX3 after researching the product and watching "Ranting Greg" on the subject of track cleaning. Results so far have been very good ( although not recommended if you have locos with traction tyres.)
Track cleaning video
Last edit: by gdaysydney
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Cheers Pete.
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Interesting video……..is MX3 an Inox proprietary name or generic? Inox is longer availableon at Amazon.ca - I suspect its imported.
Hopefully a scientist can help me out - I had never thought of cleaning my track with a lubricant.
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Having seen your set up Dave I get the feeling double headed panniers might be inadequate. :roll:
Interesting video……..is MX3 an Inox proprietary name or generic? Inox is longer available on at Amazon.ca - I suspect its imported.
Hopefully a scientist can help me out - I had never thought of cleaning my track with a lubricant.
The CMX is really heavy and only a few locos I have can pull it with ease - all of them are Heljan diesels.INOX is an Australian brand but I am sure you will be able to get a North American equivalent - its used mainly by the automotive and marine enthusiasts - but beware its not the same as WD40!
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Phil
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Thanks Dave[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:Having seen your set up Dave I get the feeling double headed panniers might be inadequate. :roll:
Interesting video……..is MX3 an Inox proprietary name or generic? Inox is longer available on at Amazon.ca - I suspect its imported.
Hopefully a scientist can help me out - I had never thought of cleaning my track with a lubricant.
INOX is an Australian brand but I am sure you will be able to get a North American equivalent - its used mainly by the automotive and marine enthusiasts - but beware its not the same as WD40!
I have good news and bad news:
The good news : I can buy 100 gm of INOX in Canada for $15
The bad news : It will cost $45 for delivery etc etc. :shock: Alternatively Amazon Prime will deliver it FREE for $65 :twisted:
A combination of this and Phil's comment mean I am having second thoughts! Although I will be interested to hear how you and Pete get on with spraying it on to the CMX pad
Another question is about the preferred method of propulsion:
PeteM pushes PhilC pulls You push AND pull are there any other bids?
Confused in Vancouver
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The INOX website makes various claims for their MX3 product. See here:Having seen your set up Dave I get the feeling double headed panniers might be inadequate. :roll:
Interesting video……..is MX3 an Inox proprietary name or generic? Inox is longer availableon at Amazon.ca - I suspect its imported.
Hopefully a scientist can help me out - I had never thought of cleaning my track with a lubricant.
https://www.inoxmx.com/products/mx3-lubricant/
You asked a scientist's POV; well this ex-scientist read the product info and struggles to see why this should be particularly suited to track cleaning. Phil's comments capture where the problems lie with using white oil based products. Put it on the track, while it might get cleaned it ain't goin' away. If anything the oily track will act to trap new dust, hair, fur etc.
This product was designed for a rather different set of purposes, IMO stick to using IPA.
Last edit: by Colin W
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I got stuck in yesterday. Cleaned track with IPA and then applied Inox. No difference and I did think the dust attraction might be a complication.
Back to IPA after a wasted hour and a half!
John,
Don't bother! I can't see where all these adoring comments come from on his website, but I won't be adding to them. Inox is made in Australia, so might be hard to get hold of anyway.
Cheers Pete.
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