Off at a tangent once more.

Hi Paul,

With regards to your post ( 185 ) on electro magnets …….. Can you explain how these work and are installed again. Am I correct in saying that these are only for use with tension lock coupling and no good with Kadee's ?

At £ 0.99 they would be worth a punt. Could they be used for anything else ?

Cheers toto.

To be used for the Kadee's, you would dismantle them and get the coil.
Put a soft iron core through the coil center - A nail
Then attach copper or steel plates to each end of the iron core approx the distance appart you require. Copper is better as doesn't retain the magnetisim.
For the tension locks, you would remove the spring from the soft iron plunger (another source), and place a bit of copper or steel under the track, then install the coil and plunger so that the plunger touches the plate.

Paul.

Hi Tom,

QC on these small Chinese solenoids is somewhat variable, as is the magnetic field. You get what you pay for. A decent winding will not be 99 pence. Small transformers or DIY U-shaped electromagnets are a better bet. Do the calculations 're wire gauge and windings first, they can get very hot.

If you move up to #19 Kadee's the effect on the wheel axle of a ten-ton wagon is reduced, plus it's worth playing around with the distance under the track. Kadee do suggest a hinge when the magnet is not required. Freight cars often have large steel weights between the chassis and the body.

Nigel

Never easy. I take it when we are talking distance, we are talking about dropping the magnet lower to increase the distance and reduce the strength of the magnetic field.

Cheers


Toto

[user=1505]toto[/user] wrote:

Never easy. I take it when we are talking distance, we are talking about dropping the magnet lower to increase the distance and reduce the strength of the magnetic field.

Cheers


Toto

#308 - yes dropping them down,  is mentioned here http://www.kadee.com/html/308ins.pdf

Hi Sol,

Would reassessing them deeper maybe work. Ie, instead of having the magnet flush with the underside of the track, lower the magnet about an eighth of an inch or so?

I think what I could try is different thicknesses of cardboard between the magnet and the underside of the track. That could reduce the effectiveness of the magnet. As long as it is still strong enough to flick the coupling open. I not the steel plate is called an intensifier, I wonder if removing it would " deintensify " the magnet enough or if it would just stop it working altogether.

Or ….. Is there any way of depolarising the axle ?

Looks like some experimenting is required.

Cheers

Toto.

Toto,

Making a hinge system is quite easy.




Simples !

What I would recommend you doing is reading what the 308 Magnet packet says to do. When I used the 308, I burried them directly under the track. I would not pack card between the magnet and the track. :It's a no noThe other alternative is the 321 HO Scale Delayed Uncoupler (between-the-rails) Code 100 or if you are using Code 75 track the 322 HO Scale Delayed Uncoupler (between-the-rails) Code 83

Take a look at the whole Kadee site. It is worth a good read through. http://www.kadee.com/

Cheers, Gary.

Come back tension locks all is forgiven

Paul

Hi Gary,

The hinge system does nothing for the problem. My issue is the drag of the magnet on the axle as I hover over trying to uncouple. Not so much after use as you are going over them moving then.

What I would like to do ( I think ) is be able to stop over the magnet and just have enough of a draw to open the knuckle, pull away but avoid any movement of the isolated wagon. That movement is caused by the magnetic field acting too strongly on the axle.

If I could lower the magnet enough to " dilute " the amount of magnetic field acting on the axle ……… But still strong enough to activate the uncoupler ……… No need for any hinging.

The other avenue ( if possible ) and possibly the more simplistic would be to find some way of depolarising the axle. Not sure if that can be done.

I may be completely wrong with it. I think in summary I'm talking of a reduction in magnetic strength rather than taking the magnet away all together or taking away the ability of the axle to become magnetised.

Apologies if I'm off down the wrong road.

Cheers

Toto

This is where you need enough track to push the uncoupled wagons clear of the magnet, atleast 1/2 to one wagon length away. This can be done with the delaed operations of the Kadees. The Kadees need that strength of magnet to do its job. By weakening the magnetic feild, you will negate the reason why you chose Kadees in the first place. Remember as you stated in the beginning, this is a 'trial of modelling skills' and to learn from any mistakes made. To gain length in the sidings, move the magnets back to where the track pieces join off the points. This will give you much more room for loose shunting using the delayed effect. Your plank is for the use of mainly small 4 wheeled wagons and Class 08 shunters, so by putting the magnets at the track join, the slight curve in the point will have very little affect on their operation. I have used the neo magnets (which you need to be exactly over the top) on slight curves and they uncouple fine, even when using longer wagons and a larger locomotive.

Cheers, Gary.

Hi Gary,

I purposely tried to give a bit of space at the point as I understood the track had to be perfectly straight. I can move them but it means lifting most of the track and the sub base timber as the holes left will be huge.

I'll take another look at it and see what will be best to do. I still think that some way of depolarising the axles would be by far the best solution but it's a question of if it can be done.

Until then it's experimenting. All good practice.

Cheers

Toto.

How does this sound,

Take said wagons, whip of the wheel sets, take off wheels, apply some heat shrink ( black ) to the axles and shrink on. Replace wheels, replace axles. No magnetic field. In fact a bit tape around the axle would do the same thing.

Hi Tom, I don,t think it would work as it is steel under the tape. Pete.

Hi Toto,

Not sure what you mean by depolarising the axle, as I'm pretty sure that you can't change the atomic structure of magnetic elements that easily to render them non-magnetic. You could consider changing to brass wheel sets if you really want to go down that route, but I'm sure there are plenty of chaps here who have already figured out how to get the best out of the Kadee system.

Good luck,

Bill :)

Back "in The Day" when I was modelling HO, there were/are plenty of retro wheel sets with brass axles on offer.

There must be similar products on offer in OO.

Yes Max, Bachmann do them for both coach and wagons and Hattons have them in stock.

Cheers,

Bill

 

 

Hi Bill,

I may have got it wrong. You can take a screw driver and magnetise it to be able to hold / lift a screw. Is it not possible to apply some kind of treatment to the axle to prevent it being magnetised ? It is just a thought. There is something in my mind that I had came across an example of something similar. I'm now desperately trying to remember from where just to ensure people I've not went mad.

As far as getting the best out of the system goes, I think there are too many variables to come up with one method. Some may have plastic axles therefore there is not this issue. Some say it must be on a straight section of track, some say you may get away with a slight bend, some say keep the magnet flush with the top of the baseboard, some sink it down and cover it with cardboard..:hmm what's it to be.

Hi Toto,

While it's technically possible to demagnetise previously magnetised material, this usually involves heating to specific temperatures, or even melting and recasting the material. Probably not practical in this scenario. However, that isn't really the point, as the steel or nickel axle will still be attracted to a track sited magnet.

It's been years since I used magnetic decouplers (Spratt and Winkle), but after seeing what others do, I would mock up a short piece of straight track and experiment with different magnets, spacing, etc to find what works best for me and then, only when satisfied that it works for my application and particular layout, would buy the quantities required and install / convert.

Now is the time to get it right, so please make sure it actually works before you get too far down the line and if at all possible, keep it as simple as possible, consistent with reliable operation.

You'll get there.

Bill :) 

Hi Tom,

Plastic won't stop a magnetic field. One thing that can be done with a #308 is to cut it in half. Needs more accurate spotting over the now smaller magnet, but the field strength is still enough to move the knuckle actuator pins. Cube root rule applies I think (field strength and distance).

The magnetic field strength can be reduced by moving the magnet further down Cube root again), and not using the intensifier plate. It's a trade-off between field strength and moving those actuator pins out.

I have some around, if i find them it's play time.

Nigel