GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

Impressive stuff John. :thumbs

I can't really add much to what's already been said but it really is looking great.

Thanks Peter…..glad you like it.

No worries DD……….I think your suggestion was a good one. Regional Management have agreed and they are being cast at Wolverhampton as we speak:lol:

I've been dipping in and out of this thread all day and would just like to say:

John Dew, you are a true inspiration!

Especially in view of your comment in post #1 "I tend to use a broad brush approach and strive to suggest an overall atmosphere in terms of time and place although from time to time I do get side tracked into detail;-)."

Stuck as I am at the planning stage, I like your approach, which seems to allow for a bit of change, alteration, and dare I say experimentation, as you go. I'm particularly intrigued by this, as in my world I like to imagine that everything can be pre-planned down to the smallest detail and that that plan can then be implemented precisely, without hitch or hesitation. That probably partly explains my still bare baseboard:roll:.

I especially enjoyed watching the canal and bridge area take shape. The scene you have created there is ….. well ….. I don't really have the words to do it justice.

I'm only just returning to my childhood hobby, and to have such inspiration so readily available, from yourself and so many others, is just brilliant. I've learnt so much here today.

Thank you.

Gra 


 

Great stuff as usual John -

 I like the way you snucked in the reference to RR&Co

As always the comments are much appreciated.

Glad you like it Dave……..I have been doing quite a lot with RR&Co recently (hence no Granby updates)…….my commutor schedules are getting more and more complex……I now have (after a fashion!) 7 trains all intertwined (knotted up as well:twisted:) to do this I have 11 locos involved……they are not all in play at the same time but when not attached to trains they have to be positioned correctly…….it is by no means perfect but I do sense some progress.

Gra……..you are far too kind. I am so glad you enjoyed reading my ramblings. I make no secret of the pleasure I get from reporting the progress of this layout and it is always very pleasant to learn that others have gained pleasure and perhaps inspiration from my trials and tribulations. Your comments are particularly generous …….thank you so much.

In regard to planning (or the lack of it) I have to confess I have problems visualising the end result so I do find that I tend to make changes to accommodate operational reality once the track is down…….not really a recommended approach!

 I will post a couple of questions on your layout thread based on my hindsight which may be helpful

Regards from Vancouver

You're certainly more than welcome John.

I only hope that my efforts will prove worthy of a few pics on here at some stage.

All the best

Gra

 

 

I have spent the last month further developing a sequence of train  movements into and out of Granby. I wanted to replicate the operation  one could see at many termini in the days of steam where passenger  trains, having unloaded their passengers at the arrival platform, had to  be uncoupled and then hauled out of the bay by a relief loco thus  releasing the original loco which would be serviced and stabled on a  spur ready for its next tour. The arrival platform would then be free to  accept the next incoming train Meantime the relief loco would back the  train into a departure platform for loading prior to its return journey.

Sequence A has three 2 carriage sets (the GWR called them B Sets) hauled  by 57xx 0-6-0 Pannier Tanks and 55xx 2-6-2 Prairie Tanks and a two car  autotrain hauled by a 14xx 0-4-2T. At the start of a sequence one set  will be in the departure platform (2) at Granby, a second at Chester  (Storage Siding) and a the third at Corwen (Lower level storage) with  the two car Ruabon Autotrain. A second autotrain stays on the lower  level shuttling through the branch station between Bersham (lower  storage left) and Mold (lower storage right). There is a relief loco at  Granby and one at Chester.

Thus there are 5 trains and 7 locos involved. During the sequence all  trains and locos move. Typically 3 trains and 5 locos will be moving at  the same time

Sequence B has two three car sets…..a motley collection of LMS and GWR  stock that is supposed to look suburban…..hauled ideally by LMS stock  …..a 0-6-0 Jinty, two 2-6-2  Ivatts and hopefully a 2-6-4 Fairburn.  One set is at Granby Platform 3 and the other Birkenhead (just behind  Chester in the Storage)

All the movements involved including the autotrain shuttle are started  with one mouse click……..everything else follows automatically.  Points are set, routes are reserved, trains are started and stopped,  coupled and uncoupled. When one train reaches a certain point it can  start another movement by the same or a different loco until the entire  sequence is complete.

The sequence starts with the train leaving Granby for Chester



When it has cleared the throat it starts the train that will depart from Chester (thus clearing space for itself)

They pass on the long stretch above the brewery



Speed is specified for the various sections. The up train (nearest) is  accelerating to 25 mph and the down braking to 15 and then 10 before  negotiating some of my poor pointwork outside Chester.

This is a 4 track section but because of bottlenecks I cant run a roundy  roundy on the Up Main but I can and will run a Slow goods on the far  down line.

The storage yards are normally concealed by terraced housing


 
They are built in modules for easy removal and access and in this case visibilty




Here you can see the Chester Train passing the relief loco and entering  the "station"  while on the lower level the autotrain enters the branch  station from Mold.

 

The engine 7768 brings the train to a halt over the uncoupling Magnets. I  can generally get by with one magnet but the inhabitants of Railway   Terrace dont like their dwelling moved too often so a second provides   greater certainty………particularly with so many different locos.

Beyond the second green marker you can see (out of focus) the Birkenhead  train headed by the Jinty. I did say Chester and Birkenhead were quite  close.





When the train has come to rest over the magnet 7768 moves sharply back momentarily (the Kadee Shuffle) releasing the carriages

 

And the moves foward clear of the train to the end of the block



Simultaneously the spur point is thrown and the relief loco 5565 moves forward to couple up and the point set back to normal



The new train will be started when the train it passed on the straight is ready to leave Granby.

When it does so the spur point is set again and 7768 moves back to the spur.



The next shot shows 5565 approaching Platform One at Granby


 

The pointwork here is particularly dodgy so the train crawls over at 8  mph. To the right is the new relief loco on a temporary spot on the  parcels siding. This is what I call my rush hour sequence with less  intensive operation the relief loco has to make a number of additional  movements to get from the spur proper…..which you can see in the  background

After 5565 has come to a halt the same uncoupling sequence takes place  as at Chester, the spur point is set and the relief 6757 enters the bay  and couples up and the point reset.

But this time instead of heading directly back to Chester, 6757 draws  the the train into a carriage siding. The points is set back and 5565 is  released ready for its next trip

 



Platform One is now clear for the next incoming train and 6757 can back  her train into Platform Two. In some sequences it goes there directly in  others it has to wait for another train to depart from there  first……in others it waits in the siding to allow another incoming  train priority approach……as in this case where the second Chester  train is returning to Granby



By having both Chester trains in Granby (and the Corwen and Ruabon  trains stored in the lower level…penultimate shot) Sequence B can be  operated……the Birkenhead train is released from storage and its  counterpart leaves from Platform 3

The large black thingy in the foreground (for Pete's benefit) is the  Fairburn which is the relief loco for the incoming LMS train from  Birkenhead…….because of the point set up the arrival sequence and  loco release in platforms one and three can be carried out almost  simultaneously

I would not wish to give the impression that all is perfect or even  approaching the 90% mark but I am edging towards the 75% mark……most  screw ups now are unexpected uncoupling (my faulty installation) and by  trial and error I am slowly overcoming some of the other mechanical  problems. RR&Co is amazing, infuriating, adaptable and inflexible in  turn……..totally robust…..you just have to work away at finding  the most elegant solution……frustrating and satisfying in turn…..I  will write about what I have learned in the RR&Co section.

I am a long way from sitting back with a glass (or two) of wine watching  all this happen while the Paddington express thunders by (Paddington is  surprisingly close to Chester) and in the background a slow goods  crawls to Wolverhampton (also close to Chester) but I will admit to the  occasional sip watching the bit I have described.

Do hope this hasnt been too boring…….back to scenery next post I promise.

PS I found time to put the hand rails in the subway so now all is legal…..I just need some passengers





    PPS What was it you wanted to run Petermac?…….10 trains……with Lenz and RR&Co no problem
 I will convert you yet:cheers:cheers

Another one for you, John.



I know how much work has gone into it.  Have you a video camera?    :twisted:

Boring? Never!
Great stuff.

Thank you for the update… I'm glad that handrail is in place, I would not have liked Divisional Inspector Luke Ought to have found it missing, he's grumpy enough after his recent clandestine trip to his ladyfriend at Valley Farm didn't turn out to be too satisfactory……

 

 

Doug

John, I've just spent some very entertaining (and awe inspiring) moments reading about your successes with RR & Co - no doubt ONLY possible with the Lenz system ;-) - and I have to say I'm mightily impressed on several counts.

1.  The photos look wonderful and it's great to re-live parts of Granby.

2. You've solved a problem I have been wrestling with for some time now - how to keep a fiddle yard within easy reach and yet out of sight.  Relocatable terraced housing !!!!  A brilliant idea. :cheers

3.  If you can do all that coupling and uncoupling (:roll:) with RR & Co at the flick of one switch, whilst sampling the best the Medoc has to offer, I may yet buy the book. :roll:

4.  In spite of my fairly comprehensive knowledge of UK geography, I had no idea Chester was so ideally located …………….:shock:

I thoroughly enjoyed the explanation of how it all works (or is supposed to) and look forward to reading/seeing more - many thanks. :cheers:cheers:cheers

Great stuff, John. Really interesting to read how your sequences work. One day I might get around to doing something similar, but not for a good while yet. 

 

Brilliant as always

:doublethumb


All that's missing now  is the 4D sound 
 

John, a question in regard to the part of your sequence where the coaches that departed from the station to the coach sidings are returned into a departure platform.

Where have you positioned your uncoupling magnets for the shunting loco to part from the coaches when they are in the platform? I ask, because I have a similar situation which, although not controlling with RR&Co, I have struggled with all along. I positioned the magnet outside the throat of the terminus with the idea of uncoupling and then pushing the uncoupled coaches into the desired platform. My thinking was firstly to limit the number of magnets, but also to allow for two, three, or four coach trains to be treated this way.

Unfortunately, in practice, I invariably get a little irregularity in the slow speed of the shunting loco, causing the coaches to propel away from it just a small distance so that the loco then recouples and I have to resort to the hand from the sky when the coaches are finally in the platform.

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Another one for you, John.



I know how much work has gone into it.  Have you a video camera?    :twisted:

Thanks Max ……..particularly appreciated from you

I knew the question of a video would be raised…….Doreen has the facility on her camera…..eventually I will try and learn how to do it:oops:

[user=312]dooferdog[/user] wrote:

Thank you for the update… I'm glad that handrail is in place, I would not have liked Divisional Inspector Luke Ought to have found it missing, he's grumpy enough after his recent clandestine trip to his ladyfriend at Valley Farm didn't turn out to be too satisfactory……

 

 

Doug

Glad you and DD like it…………..it does look a lot better for it. Maybe John Wiffen should add a suggestion in the next reprint

As always thanks Peter……your comments are always so encouraging


[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

John, I've just spent some very entertaining (and awe inspiring) moments reading about your successes with RR & Co - no doubt ONLY possible with the Lenz system ;-) - and I have to say I'm mightily impressed on several counts.

More or less any DCC system will do because RR&Co actually runs the trains…..but Lenz integrates very well

1.  The photos look wonderful and it's great to re-live parts of Granby.

2. You've solved a problem I have been wrestling with for some time now - how to keep a fiddle yard within easy reach and yet out of sight.  Relocatable terraced housing !!!!  A brilliant idea. :cheers

You just need a firm base and cover it with Scalescene pavement. It would be fine with your terraced shops.

3.  If you can do all that coupling and uncoupling (:roll:) with RR & Co at the flick of one switch, whilst sampling the best the Medoc has to offer, I may yet buy the book. :roll:

.……its typically Sauvignon Blanc from Chile I am afraid

4.  In spite of my fairly comprehensive knowledge of UK geography, I had no idea Chester was so ideally located …………….:shock:

Bristol and Shrewsbury are equally close! It was actually quite fun choosing the names, particularly the local ones looking at the old GWR and LMS routes although I have taken a few liberties with actual geography


I thoroughly enjoyed the explanation of how it all works (or is supposed to) and look forward to reading/seeing more - many thanks. :cheers:cheers:cheers

So glad you and other enjoyed it. I was rather worried that it would be seen as boring/geekish but I did feel something should be included in the annals of Granby.

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

John, a question in regard to the part of your sequence where the coaches that departed from the station to the coach sidings are returned into a departure platform.

Where have you positioned your uncoupling magnets for the shunting loco to part from the coaches when they are in the platform? I ask, because I have a similar situation which, although not controlling with RR&Co, I have struggled with all along. I positioned the magnet outside the throat of the terminus with the idea of uncoupling and then pushing the uncoupled coaches into the desired platform. My thinking was firstly to limit the number of magnets, but also to allow for two, three, or four coach trains to be treated this way.

Unfortunately, in practice, I invariably get a little irregularity in the slow speed of the shunting loco, causing the coaches to propel away from it just a small distance so that the loco then recouples and I have to resort to the hand from the sky when the coaches are finally in the platform.

Hi Geoff

The second (relief) loco doesnt uncouple after it has backed the train into the departure platform……it is scheduled to take the next train out.

I am planning some routines detaching and attaching Horse Boxes and Milk Tankers  which will involve placing an additional magnet (s) towards the end of the platform

In my shunting experiments I have tried having a magnet serving a fan of sidings by placing it at the base of the fan, as Kadee suggest, but like you I have never got it to work consistently. I have come to the conclusion that it is a false economy…..hence my decision to double up in certain cases.

However in your scenario with 2, 3 or 4 carriages I would have one uncoupling magnet at the end of the straight (hopefully) platform run so it could accommodate the maximum number of carriages. You may well then be able to shunt the uncoupled 2 or 3 car sets further down the platform without coupling……failing that I would leave them 2, 3 or 4 all over the uncoupling point and let the loco that will eventually couple up and take them out back them a bit if required

Dont know if that helps….hope it does

Kind Regards

 I  guess part of the charm of this hobby is its diversity. I  will now  move smoothly from computerised operation to the long put off  task of  filling in one of the two remaining empty corners in the layout  room.

The layout is essentially a large oval in a rectangular room……..this   results in four corners outside the main layout and the challenge of   developing them in a manner which is scenically coherent and ideally   useful from an operational standpoint.

I am afraid I chickened out operationally with the first corner and just   opted to set the scene so to speak. Cynwyd town courtesy of   Metcalfe…….this is the right hand side at the Brewery or work bench   end.




At the Canal or Doorway end I was a little more adventurous and set up a Turntable and Sub Shed for the Storage yards.



This is still work in progress……finish the lower level and build a  road bridge to conceal the entrance to the storage yards.

I am not sure to what extent I will use the Turntable  operationally……..I am waiting for a full DCC turntable and that will  be set up in the opposite corner with the main Engine Shed (or  Roundhouse?) for Granby.

The focus right now is on the far wall above the work bench…..the proposed location of Granby Goods Store and Bonded Warehouse








As you can see it is a concave triangle………the long axis is 5'6" and the base 3'6"

I kept the cut out when made the board for the main line and it will fit neatly into the space.



Track laid and wired up……just need one more Tortoise. At the far end  you can see the connecting points for the head shunt and relief  line………this is where it will join up



This shot (correctly orientated) gives a clearer idea of the overall plan




I can store 2 - 3 fair sized goods trains………not 22 wagon jobs but  certainly 12 fitted vans and a couple of 8 wagon pick up goods.

I am not going to do detailed shunting but I will run fitted freights  from the storage yard (both directions) and pick up goods from the  branch and then rather after the manner of the passenger routines swap  fixed rakes of 4-6 wagons…….all this activity can take place without  interfering (apart from the branch) with the passenger operation

The long curved siding will serve as both a reception and departure  siding for assembled trains. The next two sidings will be used for  shunting but the longer of the two will lead into a private siding  serving a timber yard.

The straight sidings will enter a multi floor (hopefully imposing)  warehouse and the left hand siding will serve another (slightly lower?)  warehouse with a long loading platform. Both warehouses will be from the  Scalescene kits and I will start a separate thread to cover their  construction.

This corner diagonally across from the doorway is a natural focal point,  albeit from a distance. I have, for once, a fairly clear idea of some  of the design features I want to incorporate……a busy yard shoehorned  in Victorian times into a very narrow space in the heart of the town.  Tall looming warehouses……grain hoists….track set into granite  setts…..capstans, bollards and wagon turntables…….a gantry crane …….and so on

So thats the plan……. I hope you will enjoy finding out with me what actually results.

Looks like a great start to a splendid plan, John. I look forward to watching your progress on it. Will you leave the panel removable, or will the connection to the rest of the layout - especially the tracks - be permanent?

As you know, I have made a couple of parts up of my layout as modules, but once in place, I decided it was too difficult and really unnecessary to make them removable, so they are now as permanent a part of the whole as everything else.