GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

This is another tale of dogged determination overcoming (after a fashion) all manner of disasters brought about by, I freely admit, overweening self confidence

I had originally intended to have a single entry from the main board into the goods yard.Emboldened by the ease with which I had retro fitted surface mounted point motors I decided to install a new point on the existing board giving me a handy loco loop.     

 



 

The observant reader will have spotted that not only is there a new form of traffic control in the High Street but also that the point motor shown above is not your conventional above ground side mounted Peco Motor

For those less observant here is a close up.




Unlike the insulfrog Double Slips the new point like most other points on the layout was electrofrog. I planned to switch polarity by using the other side of the motor lever to throw a micro switch ( I am sure Ron (Sol) does this on Charde).

The connections to the frog were cut….. all the wiring soldered and appropriate holes drilled in the baseboard and, here is hubris to a high degree, the point glued to the baseboard

And now Murphy's law stepped in at full throttle;

I discovered that:

 The point spring was much stronger than those on the double slips……actually much stronger than average.

 Despite spending forever adjusting the position of the side motor it had extreme difficulty throwing the point

 It became obvious that it would not be able to throw the point and depress the micro switch.

(In the midst of all this I managed to dislodge the point spring…..a downside to the new points is it is almost impossible to adjust the tension…..fortunately the side mounting holds the blade in place rather like a Tortoise)  

I removed the side motor and installed the more powerful of the two peco conventional motors on a side mounting. I then, against my better judgement, put a Peco switch on top to change the polarity. I wasnt sure about this so I secured it with plasticene while I tested everything……then a dab of super glue for a permanent fix and we can move on …………….

Well not quite…….a teeny dab of super glue permanently fixed the point bar……………..take everything apart…..start again….test again…..super glue again….but this time super glue very very carefully

Tested electrically with a loco and it stalled…..polarity was fine, conductivity was fine……I was by now so punch drunk that it took all morning to realise that the connection to the stock rail (the one bit I didnt test) had broken  

Finally all was well…….all I had to do was conceal the point and power lines which stupidly I had left in their original positions…….I should of course have re drilled nearer to the new motor………am I the only guy who gets into this sort of time wasting nonsense?  

I knocked together a GWR corrugated hut from bits and pieces from the Wills box

 
 

I had to buld up the bank a bit and create some shrubs to hide the nick in the side wall that was cut to accommodate the left hand wires……you can just see it in the next shot




Not sure if the point lever will always be there, when I get on to the signalling I suspect that point will have to be controlled from the box.



I knocked up a lean to to conceal the notch for the right hand wiring. The weathering looks a bit heavy but this hut is about 3' from the nearest viewing point……so its a bit like theatrical grease point, it has to be overdone a bit to be effective.

So now on to the back scene……this is the very start of the project to fill in this corner so, after all the fret listed above it was very satisfying to add this little bit.  




The loading platform is spare from Metcalfes Platform kit……the Warehouse is a combination of a very ancient Bilteezi Goods Shed and Warehouse Kit. The shops at the back are from Townscene and are probably the best link with the High Street in the Window Sill.

The platform needs weathering and I need to make a sign for the Warehouse……I was thinking of some sort of Co-op warehouse……..does anyone know when the White on Pale Blue colour scheme started?

Well there you have it……alls well that ends well…….but I could certainly have done this more efficiently! 


 

 

 

 

 

This all sounds sooo familiar, John.  That CA glue wicks in everywhere, doesn't it?

I'm glad that you got there in the end.  :thumbs

Whatever kind of problems you hit originally John, the solution looks wonderful. :thumbs

I don't think the weathering on the shed is too heavy at all - in fact, I think it looks spot on.  Maybe a bit "under-maintained" for GWR but nevertheless, spot on with the rusting around the sheet edges.  The blending with weeds etc. is also very well done.

Do I take it the rather smart Georgian/Regency building with the colonade frontage is from Townscenes ?  It looks very impressive.

…and building up the ground level stops it looking like the hut has just been 'plonked' there too. I take it a dose of Scottish Laughing Water was taken afterwards?

Doug

I would think a very large dose of SLW was called for!

That bloke Murphy ( or his Chinese cousin) has a lot to answer for but glad to see you overcame all those slight hiccups John.

It seems a great solution - although I know nothing about the electric sides of things (in fact I will be asking for guidance on this aspect shortly:oops:) - and the hut is wonderful, everything about it looks right; well done.

Ken

I think it turned out just fine John. After all isn't it a lot like golf? If it looks good on the score card no one can tell what it took to get there!  

Wayne

Happy New Year John there in rainy Vancouver, from snowy, rainy, could be sunny, might be cloudy Ontario (Just wish the weather here can make its mind up).
 by the way. I havent done much on mine, I hurt my back and just been watching TV or working on the computer.  I feel better now and hopefully I can get to work on my layout.  Since all the track is down on mine all I have to do is tidy up the wiring, build a new control panel, and instal more signals. I notice you have been cursed by Peco point motors as well, I have only 4 of them left on the layout, I replaced most with Tortoise point motors.

William

Thanks for all the comments guys

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Do I take it the rather smart Georgian/Regency building with the colonade frontage is from Townscenes ?  It looks very impressive.

Its actually a very heavily weathered Superquick kit………………and the genesisi of this whole modelling thing! My youngest daughter bought the kit for me 20 years ago as a Christmas Present top up………that iswhat got me hooked

[user=312]dooferdog[/user] wrote:

I take it a dose of Scottish Laughing Water was taken afterwards?

Doug

Indeed!…….it is, I am afraid, entirely possible that some of these problems resulted from an earlier dose of SLW! 


[user=22]Wayne Williams[/user] wrote:

I think it turned out just fine John. After all isn't it a lot like golf? If it looks good on the score card no one can tell what it took to get there!

Wayne

I dont actually play golf Wayne but it is a valid analogy. I am reminded of all those horrific crossings/races (the "never again" variety) where it is curiously therapeutic to recount all the disasters when eventually safely back on land and in the bar (with a large SLW) 

Which reminds me there was a thread over Christmas about big seas that Peter couldnt see in France. My guess is because it featured shots of a lighthouse in Brittany which for many years was one of the top poster sellers. 

[user=81]bickybtrains[/user] wrote:

Happy New Year John there in rainy Vancouver, from snowy, rainy, could be sunny, might be cloudy Ontario (Just wish the weather here can make its mind up).
 by the way. I havent done much on mine, I hurt my back and just been watching TV or working on the computer.  I feel better now and hopefully I can get to work on my layout.  Since all the track is down on mine all I have to do is tidy up the wiring, build a new control panel, and instal more signals. I notice you have been cursed by Peco point motors as well, I have only 4 of them left on the layout, I replaced most with Tortoise point motors.

William

 

Hope your back gets better soon William……back problems can be a real downer….I know!

 I have standardised on Tortoises but because I didnt need to switch polarity on the double slips thoght I would save money by using Pecos………….definitely a false economy! 

"I knocked together a hut"

Far too modest - a very good example indeed.

Absolutely, Pete.  A cracker.  :thumbs

Thanks Doug and Max…….it really doesnt bear close examination and you wouldnt want to see the non viewing side.

In addition to building the roof for Granby I have also completed the  signalling for the North end of the Junction. I am fascinated by  semaphore signals…..the thought of trains travelling at 70 mph being  controlled by 4' long painted pieces of board operated by a combination  of gravity and wires/rods is so quintessentially Victorian. Even the  word semaphore conjures up visionsof soldies and sailors holding flags  in predetermined positions.

To me a model railway is not complete without signals. I truly enjoy  researching the various specialised signals that the GWR used to control  their trains and once the platforms are in place its the first job I  start on.

Having said that, I should make it clear that the signals you are about  to see are essentially cosmetic. A long time ago I came to the  conclusion that I had neither the the skill nor time to have operating  signals on my layouts.

 So before the roof is in place here is an overall shot. Hopefully every  movement on this side of the station is now covered by the correct (I  hope) combination of signals




The signals controlling trains entering the station from the North (Birkenhead and Chester) are sited on a gantry.




From the left, the short arm with a circle is the GWR signal controlling  movement from a siding or loop to a main line…….in this case the  exit from the bay headshunt and relief loco stabling

The next signals are in pairs…..An Inner Home  and on a separate doll a  smaller (red horizontal stripes) calling on arm. The calling on arm  enables a loco to pass the home at danger and enter the station area  typically to shunt carriages that are already there.

The first pair controls the up slow line leading to the three bay  platforms……hence the mechanical indicator board , the second the up  fast line…..this is the main through line (hence it is the tallest  doll) so no indicator board and the third the junction to the goods  relief and mineral line where again, because there are alternative  routes, an indicator board is attached.

The Outer Homes are on the individual roads further back on the curve.

 
Heading North out of the station is rather more complex because trains can depart from 5 different platforms




The first signal is a two doll bracket carrying the starters for Plarforms 1 and 2




Below each starter is a Calling on arm but this time it has additional applications…..Shunting ahead or proceeding ahead under Warning.  Prior to the 30s these movement were controlled by individual red  painted 3' boards with the appropriate letter affixed. Fortunately I  discovered they were slowly replaced with the signal shown above and a  mechanical indicator which when off showed the appropriate letter.

All the signals are made from Ratio Kits…..even when not working they  have a lot of detail and are quite fiddly to make but you do get lots of  parts. With a little ingenuity you can get many signals out of one kit.



I dont fit all the detail that Ratio supply….just a token balance  weight but I have added the shutters at the rear which by shielding the  light indicate to the signalman the position of the arm. The safety  rings are supplied (but not enough) but not the safety rails. I have  tried various permutations over the years…..for this batch I used  Ratio stantions…..definitely worth the effort.

Having covered platforms 1 and 2 I had a problem with No 3




Ideally I would have put a bracket at the end of the platform but that  would have positioned it after the exit point which is a no no  …….hence its positioning on the platform





I have seen a number of photos of platform mounted signals so there are  lots of precedents…..when I detail the platform I will add a lamp hut  and a cautionary sign……there was some basic elf'n'safety even then

The next platform No 4 is the main up platform…….no trains will be   leaving from there in a northward direction so no starters are required   but some trains will be backed from that road into the head shunt so  here is another GWR special…….the backing signal…… Red board  with 2 holes drilled in





The main Down platform (No 5) has a similar starter and calling on arm to the one on Platform 3 .

The final platform (No 6) is contolled by a bracket signal which also  has the signal that controls the secondary junction with the mineral  line.




There are ground signals covering the subsidiary pointwork…………and thats about it for the North Side

Hope this hasnt been too boring and I have been able to convey some of my enthusiasm for the topic.

All this is pretty subjective and nobody at home has the least idea what  I am talking about……..nevertheless I do want it to be  correct……please let me know if I have made any obvious errors.

A superb array of signals, John. Great to see how much care you have taken to get all of the correct arms in place and in their correct positions compared to turnouts and platform ends. I think they look splendid, and you are the only one who knows they do not operate. We cannot tell, unless you make a video!

Have you noticed the February Project? Maybe you could share some of your experience with constructing the Ratio Kits?

 

Hope this hasnt been too boring and I have been able to convey some of my enthusiasm for the topic.

 

 

Not at all, I learned something from that and we all love a bit of  'thoosiassm!

 

Doug

Great signals John and yes, I agree, a layout without signals just seems "empty".

As for the why's and wherefore's of their position and purpose, it seems even more complicated than road traffic markings and signalling.  It must have been a nightmare for apprentice engine drivers …………..

I can see I'll have to do plenty of reading before I install any signals on my, as yet unbuilt, layout !!!

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

.

As for the why's and wherefore's of their position and purpose, it seems even more complicated than road traffic markings and signalling.  It must have been a nightmare for apprentice engine drivers …………..

It was a lengthy apprenticeship……they started as cleaners and then became firemen with a number of subsidiary positions in between dependent on passing tests so before someone was put in charge of a train he had many years of experience. Drivers had to "know" the route (rather like a London Cabbie). So before a driver could take a train on a route he was not familiar with he had to travel as a supernumerary……..there was a special term for this which escapes me.

I can see I'll have to do plenty of reading before I install any signals on my, as yet unbuilt, layout !!!  

I meant to quote some of my sources:

C.J. Freezers "Signalling for Model Railways (or similar) is excellent as is the signalling section in the GWR Encyclopedia (though perhaps not for you Peter)

Lots on the web including Wikipedia and this site The Signal Box – EVERYTHING ABOUT BRITISH RAILWAY SIGNALLING

There are a number of genuine experts on RMWeb including Beast6606 and The Stationmaster…..the latter was a professional railwayman and finished in charge of signalling (and more?) on the Western Region……all his posts are worth reading.

There is a whole world of information on signalling in the Forum Index under both P for Prototype and S for Signalling, including the above link.

John
What a journey, have just spent a few (a lot) hrs (over 2 days) reading your post from go to wo,

the amount of information contained in just this thread alone is amazing, (mind boggles at what is available over the whole forum), i am now off to read your posts on RR&Co as i am very interested in anything to do with computers, and controlling a layout automatically from the PC is way too interesting to miss.

thank for documenting your layout as you have it is awesome and look forward to seeing a video of it in action down the track so to speak) :)

Robert

Glad you like it Robert...............happy to answer any questions on Computor control.

Hi John, did you notice my reference to the February project in the 553rd post above? It might be good to have your input as there are now several members looking at constructing Ratio Signal Kits.