GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

[user=540]gdaysydney[/user] wrote:

Hi John,

Just joined the forum and being interested in computer control and RR&Co in particular followed the links to RR&Co - but soon found myself on your layout page reading through all the posts starting at page 1.
Now having seen what you have done I feel inspired and I haven't even started on your RR&Co pages yet !!

Dave

Well thank you Dave…..thats very nice of you……glad you like the layout…….I will reply about RR&Co in yourwelcome thread

 

I wish you had videoed the attempts, John. 

I was  to trying to remember what the signs said on various wagon works I have seen over the years and I have a feeling that Works and Shop were not mentioned .

So for example you just had

MARCROFT WAGON REPAIRS or MARCROFT WAGONS

I dont remember what was on the buildings at Swindon Works - not even sure if there was a sign as after all being GWR no-one would have  been considered to be competition.

The point regarding pride in the railway is very valid . Even up till late 1950's there was still a strong feeling on Western Region that staff worked for "the company" ie GWR and appearance was important.

I'm pleased the computer control worked so well John …………………

I have something "electronic" that does the same sort of thing but without the "disasters".  It's box shaped with "things" inside it that hum.  There's a big black knob on the front and when you turn it, the train miraculously moves.  Clever stuff eh.  It says "Controller" on the label ………………

Oh, nearly forgot - it doesn't need much plasticene either ……………:cheers  How are you going to weather those wires ………?

:cheers:cheers:cheers

It seems such a pity to risk damaging this superb layout by letting a computer anyhwere near it. :cool wink

Doug I believe this was called bracketing in the Royal Navy?

:thumbs




Re the 'signage', would there be a sign? After all, they were not advertising their services…?  Hhm, ?


and

The beauty of this usage is I can quite properly employ that timeworn cliche…..discarded wagon wheels

……I'm sure you will be taking your Dremel wheel to the end of the pin-point axles to represent the prototype flat end of wagon axles?  I've seen this howler so often, oh, I've probably upset a few people now, well, 'Down with pointy axle ends!!' nah nah nee na nah…:lol:


Keep doin' it,


Doug

Great progress John. Glad to hear that the TT is working well, including the reed switches. As you saw in my pictures, you should be able to mount the switches under the baseboard, if you can manage to attach the magnets close to the end and under the bridge platform.

Peter I am afraid it takes me forever to think up even a weak riposte 

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

I have something "electronic" that does the same sort of thing but without the "disasters".  It's box shaped with "things" inside it that hum.  There's a big black knob on the front and when you turn it, the train miraculously moves.  Clever stuff eh.  It says "Controller" on the label ………………

And how many trains at any one time does it control?:roll:

It seems such a pity to risk damaging this superb layout by letting a computer anyhwere near it.

Its not the computor its the operator……you should have seen the damage I could wreak before Herr Freiwald (Mr RR&Co) started exercising some control:lol:

How are you going to weather those wires ………?

Let the glue dry and add a bit more ballast and dont look too closely at the cut down Peco buffers……and definitely dont do an impact assessment

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

Great progress John. Glad to hear that the TT is working well, including the reed switches. As you saw in my pictures, you should be able to mount the switches under the baseboard, if you can manage to attach the magnets close to the end and under the bridge platform.

I dont share your confidence in my wiring:lol:

I cut down some Wills planking and cut it to match the infill and its fixed in place with……Plasticene………I was a little more confident about the magnets I glued them down and painted them out….you can just see one out of focus

[user=373]Wheeltapper[/user] wrote:

I was to trying to remember what the signs said on various wagon works I have seen over the years and I have a feeling that Works and Shop were not mentioned .

So for example you just had

MARCROFT WAGON REPAIRS or MARCROFT WAGONS

I dont remember what was on the buildings at Swindon Works - not even sure if there was a sign as after all being GWR no-one would have been considered to be competition.

Dooferdog wrote

Re the 'signage', would there be a sign? After all, they were not advertising their services…?  Hhm, ?


Doug

Thanks guys……of course you are correct…..thank you for stopping me from doing something foolish.

 

The beauty of this usage is I can quite properly employ that timeworn cliche…..discarded wagon wheels

……I'm sure you will be taking your Dremel wheel to the end of the pin-point axles to represent the prototype flat end of wagon axles?  I've seen this howler so often, oh, I've probably upset a few people now, well, 'Down with pointy axle ends!!' nah nah nee na nah…:lol:

 

Thanks again Doug from stopping me from doing something foolish……I am embarrassed to admit I would have done just that :oops::oops::oops::oops:

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

Peter I am afraid it takes me forever to think up even a weak riposte 

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

I have something "electronic" that does the same sort of thing but without the "disasters".  It's box shaped with "things" inside it that hum.  There's a big black knob on the front and when you turn it, the train miraculously moves.  Clever stuff eh.  It says "Controller" on the label ………………

And how many trains at any one time does it control?:roll:

 

Two things John,

1. how the heck do you do more than one quote at a time?

2. The control , without computers, I defy any DCCer being able to "control" more than one train at the same time & by "control", I mean ,starting, stopping and shunting! 
 Yes DCC allows you to get one train running & while that is moving, select another train & get that moving & ad infintum- but is that "control"?  - not in my book.
I suppose even using computers to do all of the start/stop/shunting is "control" but not by the human hand. At least Peter has "control" of his loco!

 

I do like your method of hiding wiring, etc :thumbs

Thanks Ron

[user=95]Sol[/user] wrote:

Two things John,

1. how the heck do you do more than one quote at a time?

I have two tabs of YMR up and I cut the quotes I want from the "sacrificial" tab and paste them into my draft reply and then I cut, paste and edit them into the correct sequence for the reply

2. The control , without computers, I defy any DCCer being able to "control" more than one train at the same time & by "control", I mean ,starting, stopping and shunting! 
Yes DCC allows you to get one train running & while that is moving, select another train & get that moving & ad infintum- but is that "control"?  - not in my book.
I suppose even using computers to do all of the start/stop/shunting is "control" but not by the human hand. At least Peter has "control" of his loco!

I did say it was a weak riposte:lol: and it certainly shouldnt be taken too seriously.

I am lucky enough, like you, to have a large railway room. Unlike you ,I dont have a group of like minded friends (sailing or pool perhaps) who can get together to operate it……so computor control is my attempted solution

Granby II was DC and had at least 4 controllers and a switchboard that looked more complex than that on a 747 ( and I trust the 747 switchboard works better :roll::lol: . At best I could get two locos doing a roundy roundy and even that was a bit fraught.

With Granby III I cant do any roundy roundy…….because I aint finished the layout…………however I can run three trains at once……(1) a shuttle…….(2) a 2 coach train with a run around at each terminus and (3) shunting in the yard………….all this involves hours of painstaking testing (playing), typically with Miles Davies and some SMLW…….  and when it all comes together it is super.

I suspect the ultimate aim is to have 5 locos operating to a time table and manual shunting in the yard.

I would agree that "control" is a somewhat optimistic word……there are times when I am operating the layout that I feel my level of control is broadly similar to that which prevailed when skiiing I foolishly attempted Black Double Diamonds

Don't rise to the taunts John just watch this clip at 4.25 in and smile

Thanks Pete

Scale speed (???) and lots of hands from the sky:roll:……….thanks Pete

I dont think they were taunts………..just healthy debate ;-)

Aye i know John i couldn't get the wink to behave so i gave up.

Legs arrived today at last, so i can get my boards assembled tomorrow allaluja! Grandaughter sitting permitting that is.

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

With Granby III I cant do any roundy roundy…….because I aint finished the layout…………however I can run three trains at once……(1) a shuttle…….(2) a 2 coach train with a run around at each terminus and (3) shunting in the yard………….all this involves hours of painstaking testing (playing), typically with Miles Davies and some SMLW…….  and when it all comes together it is super.

I suspect the ultimate aim is to have 5 locos operating to a time table and manual shunting in the yard.

I would agree that "control" is a somewhat optimistic word……there are times when I am operating the layout that I feel my level of control is broadly similar to that which prevailed when skiiing I foolishly attempted Black Double Diamonds

Which version of RR&Co are you using?   If you are using version 7 Gold have you tried using the "automatic"  (Train/Driving/automatic). 

[user=540]gdaysydney[/user] wrote:

Which version of RR&Co are you using?   If you are using version 7 Gold have you tried using the "automatic"  (Train/Driving/automatic). 

I have version 7 Gold and I use the automatic option all the time. I really only use the throttles when I am testing

A brief progress report

I have decided to leave the TT area for the time being……I want to complete the Metcalfe Warehouses before finishing the detailing……meantime I have gone back to track laying the Junction approach and throat.

The embankment where the branch joins the main line is now finished (module 1) ……its a bit bleak because the back scene here  will not be started for a while.

Having decided that Granby is based very close to Wrexham I am now disciplining myself to give each train a specific destination…….given hindsight I should have thought of this earlier…….anyway here goes 

56xx 0-6-2 T hauls a fully laden coal train from Vron Colliery up Cynwyd Bank. In the background on the Down Slow a Dean Goods takes a rake of empty Cattle Wagons to Birkenhead.






The gradient is a little steeper than I planned……fortunately most trains can manage it…….the coal train is a bit of an issue because of the curve…… 20 wagons long it covers the entire width of the room…..the loco and brake van  are almost facing opposite directions

 




The engine can just about manage on its own but there is a fair amount of wheel spin……..I have tried double heading and the ascent is quite smooth but I am not convinced doubleheading is prototypical…….. I think banking would be far more likely

So here we have a 97xx buffering up (not coupling)  to the brake van at the bottom of the bank and helping push the train up the slope




With RR&Co this was surprisingly easy to achieve…….far easier than setting up a "consist" with Lenz DCC

My ultimate plan is to have the Pannier independently approach the brake van (ie at a slightly faster speed than the 56xx), push it up the bank (now at the same speed) and then when its job is done separate and drift back (at a slower speed ) and then reverse down the slope ready for the next turn.

Having finished "testing" I started on module 2…….the station throat. Two facing points will allow access to three Bay lines, the main up Platform and the goods relief line accessed via the first of three double slips  (module 4) 



From the left…. a Pannier on the Bay approach, next the Up Main and the Down Main with a local LMS train to Chester

Kicking back off the Bay lines is the line to module 3 which will provide a head shunt for the bays and a loco service and relief spur. 

Having a number of smallish modules has made life much easier…….there were 4 tortoises and one double slip on this segment and I  found it far easier to wire and test than with an 8' board. Everything went together surprisingly smoothly except I got a little careless and managed to drill right through the tie bar of a RHM point…:twisted: ……expletive deleted hardly covers the situation…….havent done that before and I am unlikely to do it again.

So the next step is more rail painting and ballasting…..add module 3 and then I can actually think about platforms…….quite exciting

Regards from Vancouver

John, very impressive. Having trains come and go to real life destinations brings a sense of purpose and this makes the whole layout more realistic and enjoyable. It makes the pictures too more interesting. Look forward to a map showing all the off-layout connections and a schematic!

The snow here from the last storm is slowly going and sun forecast for today. A few miles north in the Valley they had 8" and in the mountains above us over 2'. No shortage of water this year.

Best wishes from Utah,

Slow steady………….boring………progress

I have now installed the module which fits into the space on the right hand side of this earlier photograph



Although there were only a couple of turnouts it enabled me to lay a lot of track connecting the turnouts on the earlier modules



This is very much work in progress……I must be the world's sloppiest ballaster:oops::oops: and using two types of ballast doesnt help.

 To the left of the LMS coach the main line head shunt is now in place. The plan is to have fairly intensive passenger operation with dedicated Arrival and Departure main platforms so this siding will be used by the Station Pilot to move carriages between roads

The LMS coach is on a shorter headshunt that is off the Main Line and will serve the three Bay roads. One of the ideas here is to shunt Milk Tankers on and off Milk Trains to be added to the BSet and taken to and from the Dairy at the Cynwyd Branch

To the right is the Loco Spur which will stable and service the Prairies on the local passenger sevice and the Station Pilot. You can just see the beginning of the kickback siding which will accommodate 2 other locos and this time I remembered to install the inspection pit 

The big plus from getting this section in is that I can now start to complete the brewery section





 




 




I managed to salvage some Wills walling from Granby II. I had hoped to use a wooden trestle Halt that I had built as well but this track is right on the very inside of the curve and the radius is super tight.   

So I am going to settle for a very small low platform and ramp……….you can see the start above using Black Foamboard as a base…..the front will be clad with stone plasticard….thin strip of Slaters flags as an edge and then fine cinder ballast. I dont think that this is unprototypical……………..the Auto Coaches had a single passenger door with steps, I think they were folding although they are fixed in the model

What is unprototypical is the overhang as the coach swings round the curve!




Even in the relaxed days of 1947 I dont think the Railway Inspector General would have approved of this sweeping approach

Fortunately its not too obvious when a train isnt present and even then the loco obscures the worst of it

Another visual scene that bothers me is the level crossing gates which, because of the curve have to be set too far apart to avoid the train from hitting them.



I suppose it is just possible that in real life  the exit from a road tunnel was barred by an unmanned crossing gate…….do let me know if that is the case.

The siding to the brewery will have its private siding gate and fencing replaced as part of this project. 

This is a good example of my butterfly approach to modelling…….the main line is just waiting completion and I get diverted into yet another cameo………….my excuse…..its right over the work bench and I will have the satisfaction of almost completing  the entire end wall .

John, it occurs to me that the platform would look more 'planned' if it was extended slightly right and curved to follow the track radius? Then a fenced off path could lead to it from the small tunnel gate to steps to mount it….


[Excuse this from someone who currently doesn't have even one platform!]


Doug

[user=312]dooferdog[/user] wrote:

John, it occurs to me that the platform would look more 'planned' if it was extended slightly right and curved to follow the track radius? Then a fenced off path could lead to it from the small tunnel gate to steps to mount it….




Doug

Thanks Doug

That is sort of what I am planning in that there is now a ramp that leads to a walkway that I can fence almost the whole way to the tunnel

[Excuse this from someone who currently doesn't have even one platform!]

But you have waterwheels and a snuff factory:mrgreen:

 

John, regarding the crossings of the railway if the access is not by any public highway and the persons who require access were there before the railway was built the railway company would have been required to 'accommodate'them by allowing and providing a crossing. This could be a gate opened and shut by the users, as were many farm crossings. In some cases they might however be required to get permission by phone from a signalman.

More likely as at Granby the railway was there first, and the owners requiring access would need to negotiate with the railway company for the right to cross the railway. The company could require a crossing keeper with his wages paid by the users, or provide locked gates operated by a distant signalman. Where a signalman was involved as in this instance there would be signals protecting the crossing

I think you could assume a prototypical method to suit your purposes on either of these lines.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

John.