GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

This search for accuracy, that we all have, coupled with the necessity for the viewer to suspend belief in some areas is perhaps worth a thread in its own right

Regards from Vancouver

When i started on this forum i was not interested in authenticity at all, i know jack about prototypes. But the longer you hang around with esteemed company on here it starts to bother you and low and behold you slowly turn into a poor grade rivet counter.

John i agree totally if you know something isn't right or as good as it should be it now bothers me. Infectious!

Love the turntable and the engines even though they are the colour of a garden bench.

This phase of Granby III is hard slogging in the trenches I am afraid.

The turntable section is secured, the base painted black to the end of the scenic section………… assorted strips of paper have been glued to make the embankment with the main line. Track painted rust and sleepers with grime




The ballast has been laid using cinders on the TT tracks and a mix of normal ballast and cinders on the carriage siding…….its not glued down yet so will get darker but its not totally satisfactory ……I want it to look like a secondary siding when compared with the main line……right now its like liquorice allsorts…….once glued I will paint it with a grey wash  

At the other end of the room:…….the same thing………..  the rails and sleepers painted and ballast loose laid.

The embankment between the branch and main line has been made with paper and PVA and painted prior to  being laid with grass



This next shot shows this section of the junction more clearly. From the left…… Down Relief, Down Main, Up Relief merges with Up Main and then with the Branch …………….the ballasted track on the right are  the lower level storage sidings




The gradient where the branch joins the main is somewhat steeper than I had planned and you can see some of the bodging I had to resort to at least get it reasonably smooth……at one stage I had the most alarming camber. Fortunately my test train of 20 loaded coal wagons made it to the top……..not without a certain amount of wheel spin…………..I then tried doubleheading and banking which was both succesful and spectacular……….more of this later.

The only other item of note would be the temporary demise of the brewery cooperage chimney……………anyone's memory stretch as far back as Blaster Bates……he used to be a fixture on the UK speakers circuit in the 70s/80s?




 

You can see where you're heading, John.  It will all come together no doubt.  :thumbs

Do you have to lean over very far to reach it?

Some good progress there, John. The overall scene is beginning to take shape nicely. Do you intend filling in the corner with something, or just bringing the backscene round the curve?

You must be very fast worker John, most impressive.

Is the 'Bates' you  were thinking of the chap from Bolton who also had a  collection of vintage steam rollers? I think I re-call recently reading of his death. He was a local character whom I can remember from my days working in Bolton and elsewhere in east Lancashire when many mills were closed and used as broiler houses.

A big comedown for those majestic structures. I can remember too seeing about the last mill engine working in Chorley. I hope at least one has been preserved.

Later of course they and their chimneys were demolished and then Blaster made his name and reputation.

Is 'Blaster' the same chap who did the series on television. I enjoyed that but can't for the life of me remember what it was called.

Blaster Bates was from Cheshire.  An ex army explosives expert who took up demolition work when he left the army.  After his retirement, he produced several extremely funny records and went on the lecture circuit even having his own one-man stage shows.

He was just about the funniest guy I've ever heard as an after dinner speaker - he spoke at a dinner I was at once and everyone had indigestion from laughing so much.

One of his anecdotes was entitled "Shite storms over Cheshire" and told of his being called in to unblock a large cess-pit - with dynamite !!!  If you get a chance to listen to his records, I'd thoroughly recommend it.

The guy from Bolton with the traction engines was Fred Dibnah.  He did several TV series.

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

Some good progress there, John. The overall scene is beginning to take shape nicely. Do you intend filling in the corner with something, or just bringing the backscene round the curve?

Thanks Geoff…….there are actually 3 modules….. the junction that you can see and then at the back I am going to put a goods yard ….I can get a fan of about 5 sidings running parallell to the long side wall and heading toward the backscene where I will build some 1/2 relief goods warehouses (Scalescene?). The space at the front will be a couple of loco servicing spurs and a carriage head shunt

I got the idea of modules from you and Gordon where relatively small sections can be laid and wired off site rather than having solder dripping down at you as you crouch under the baseboard…….it kind of got forced on me here because I forgot I still had 3/4" of gradient to achieve ……the junction has a slight rise while the other two modules will be horizontal and slightly higher than the junction at the right hand end…….one of those stupid errors that is actually going to work out quite well!!:lol:

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Do you have to lean over very far to reach it?

Yes! Even though I am over 6' with ape like arms…………I stand on a foot stool and support myself with one hand on the baseboard to reach the back……………thats why the module concept is so useful…….the goods yard will probably even be detailed off site and just dropped in 

As you can see the leaning did create collateral damage which brings me neatly to Blaster Bates……………….

Bob and John:

Peter has summed up my memories of him perfectly although I would have called it slurry but then I come from Lancashire where we are far more polite than those East of the Pennines 

 

 

John Dew wrote:

Peter has summed up my memories of him perfectly although I would have  called it slurry but then I come from Lancashire where we are far more  polite than those East of the Pennines


You didn't go to the dinner I went to John - either that or Blaster himself was from East of the Pennines ……….

More Ballasting…….more progress I suppose. 

I absolutely hate ballasting……….bitter experience has taught me to take it very slow and very carefully……..my normal antidote for boring jobs……a glass of malt and a Jeff Healey CD ………doesnt work……believe me.

I worry most about the points……the ballast gets everywhere except where you want it. I now do one point at a time using a a brush to ensure no particles finish up in the frog or between the switch blade and the stock rail. Then I throw the point 3 or 4 times before and after applying the PVA……So with 5 points in this module it took……5 days

So (a) I got bored with ballasting and (b) I had time on my hands. I started looking at the unfinished back scene behind the storage sidings

Regular readers will recall that above the branch line I have a series of Metcalfe Houses concealing the 8 road storage yard…..then behind the yard are two layers of Townscene backdrops cut out and mounted to create a slight three dimensional effect  



It all ends rather abruptly after the YMR Mill………like many other projects on Granby it landed in the pending box



Townscene sheets are great but difficult to get hold of. Finally I got some from Jerry(?) Freestone just before Xmas.

I mounted a distant shot on thin card…..painted out the cut edges…… and mounted it directly to the sky behind the second row of houses




This finishes off the tiered effect of houses climbing up a hill that I wanted to achieve

I ordred two of the sheets with the house backs on……a must for any urban layout…….then mounted some other house tops behind and finally a third long distance layer




Right now its a little bright…..this is 2011 vintage while the first shots were on Granby II vintage circa 2003

Its also a little crowded but I am not unhappy with that……..small northern industrial towns are (or where) exactly that……a little crowded

Which left me with about 3' at the very end and the ,as yet, unsolved problem of disguising the exit from the storage yard.

Again regular readers will recall that the Metcalfe terrace finished with a double run of Bilteezi Tenements




This was always a temporary arrangement…..the contrast in finish between the Metcalfe units and the Bilteezi was, I felt, too obvious……….I was never really happy with 3 storey tenements in the foreground…………Glasgow or London….tick………..Wrexham…..less certain.

So I moved the tenements to the backscene




Leaving this space to fill




I had originally planned to build a Scalescene Warehouse there………but just by chance the dimensions exactly fit two of the new low relief Metcalfe Warehouse units…….which will match the Terraced Houses and which I can produce quite quickly……so they are now on order along with their latest release a factory entrance and boiler house………..I am hoping to fiddle with these three kits and both cover the space at the front and create some sort of bridge over the storage yard.  

So now I only have to deal with the view from the entrance to the railway room


 

Forget about the hailstorm…..the ballast gets everywhere…..the black line marks the end of the scenic area and is roughly where the bridge will be situated

The Tenement base will be cut back and maybe raised an inch or so.

In the foreground you can see the point motors for the Turntable which have to be concealed by a building of some sort.




This is one of pair of Ratio Engine Sheds that I bought so long ago I cant quite remember what project I had in mind…….suffice to say they have been pillaged and cannabalised for parts over the past decade.

I looked at this scene trying to come up with a convincing explanation for what is clearly an Engine Shed being situated away from the tracks…………and then I had a blinding flash of light



Move it a little to the left and it can be aligned with the TT and becomes a sub shed……a logical component of the entire scene…..in fact it enables me to create a completley coherent module rather than a utilitarian adjunct to the storage yard

Water crane, coaling point etc etc……I wish I had thought of this earlier….too late for an inspection pit




The obviouse downside……the motors are no longer covered…….the right hand jobby is glued down forever so that will have to be covered by a corrugated lean to (hence the missing windows….waste not… want not)  but the left hand one can be remounted within the shed……only 6 wires to cut and resolder……..no big deal in the endless search for perfection

Now for the 18" or so of sky between the tenements and the light switch



 




No not the Coliseum (although the Romans must have got as far as Wrexham)…….I have used the remaining two E Shed Walls and mounted them on top of two Ratio Wall units (that I have never particularly liked) 

In between is a cut down end wall from the E Shed and I will build something above it creating an ultra low relief workshop/shed connected to the scene and the turntable.

So despite the tedious ballasting a very creative 5 days:cheers:cheers
  

All good, John.  Not too late for an inspection pit.  All you need is a drill and a jig saw.  :thumbs

I think that tiered effect looks great.

I agree that some buildings are unlikely in Wrexham but I don't believe you should beat yourself up about that, John.
It is your scene. If you want Disneyland in the scenery that's a matter for you.

[user=446]John Flann[/user] wrote:

You must be very fast worker John, most impressive.

Is the 'Bates' you were thinking of the chap from Bolton who also had a collection of vintage steam rollers? I think I re-call recently reading of his death. He was a local character whom I can remember from my days working in Bolton and elsewhere in east Lancashire when many mills were closed and used as broiler houses.

A big comedown for those majestic structures. I can remember too seeing about the last mill engine working in Chorley. I hope at least one has been preserved.

Later of course they and their chimneys were demolished and then Blaster made his name and reputation.

 John Flann and Bob with appologies to John D for thread hijacking

You are thinking of Fred Dibnah from Bolton  - a steeplejack whose main work was churches and mill chimneys. He didnt use explosives to bring down the chimneys but the old fashioned method of removing bricks and sections of brickwork from near the base and then lighting a very large fire in the bottom of the chimney the heat from which opened out the cracks and depending where the hand removal of bricks had taken place which was the skillfull bit the chimney could be brought down exactly where he wanted it . I knew him through the fact he owned an almost identical Aveling Steam Roller to mine but he caused us no end of trouble as he liked his beer and was always to be seen with a pint in his hand on the rally field . At the time I was on the committee of the National Traction Engine Club and following a fatal accident at a rally we were making  a great thing about not drinking when driving steam engines as the H & S lot were seriously considering banning steam rallies on safety grounds . As we made progress in this direction then it would get set back by all the tv publicity that Fred got usually with a pint in his hand .

Fred was married 3 times with kids but didnt leave a will apparrently and when he died a couple of years back his affairs were somewhat compolicated and as far as I know are still being sorted out . His home and workshop ar being turned into the Dibnah Heritage Centre but unfortunately thieves and souvenir hunters had robbed many of the artefacts  before the Heritage people could get access.

Fred was a real character -  pity there are not more of his type around as the world would be a better place.

His catch phrase was "Did you like thaat" - If he could hear me the answer would be a resounding YES !

Brilliant John - as ever.

I really like the "clutter" of housing disappearing into the distance.  The way you have achieved it shows that you've given it a great deal of thought.

As you so rightly say, buildings in the industrial north were indeed very cluttered.  Perhaps more so at your side of the Pennines although some of the West Riding mill towns, whilst smaller, would come a close second.  It's that "industrial clutter" that so inspires me - as it has also inspired many more famous people than me in the past.  The power house of the "Great" in Britain - sadly now almost gone.

The juxtaposition of the differing architechtural styles is also extremely authentic.  I'm green with envy but, as with every cloud, there is a silver lining in that when I look at your layout, it rekindles my fires ………..

Your "search for perfection" is proving very successful.

Always an enjoyable read and excellent photos to match. :cheers

Looks like you had an enjoyable 5 days, John, despite the chore of ballasting - actually it is the rail and sleeper painting that I find the most tedious. The result you have achieved with the back scene is very effective and I think the idea of a bridge over the end of the storage area will complete the scene well. I wonder if you might be able to add some superstructure (like a town tunnel entrance) in front of it so that one just sees the two main lines (and the other track near the TT) and not the points for the fan out of storage roads?

Evolving the TT area into a sub-shed is also inspired. You could perhaps cover the fixed solenoid with a sand house - even if it is no longer functional.

I wonder what we might see in another 5 days time??

John, I'm always amazed at how much you get done so quickly. And its complexity, all the parts fit together so well.

When will you get around to serious operation?

Thanks Guys…..as always the comments are much appreciated:cheers

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

 Not too late for an inspection pit.  All you need is a drill and a jig saw.  :thumbs

Afraid so Max…….a jigsaw in the midst of all that ballast and dodgy construction doesnt bear thinking about

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

The juxtaposition of the differing architechtural styles is also extremely authentic.  I'm green with envy but, as with every cloud, there is a silver lining in that when I look at your layout, it rekindles my fires ………..

Your "search for perfection" is proving very successful.

Again you flatter me Peter :oops: and you omitted the key adjective "endless"………when I look at some of the layouts here….. Pen Y Bont and Bears End spring to mind………..I realise how far I have to go…….my only solace is that its a bigger canvas than most so maybe broad brush is passable:lol:

The townscene backgrounds are excellent……far better than the Peco ones…… and they are designed so you can create two or three layers quite quickly and they are relatively inexpensive…..thoroughly recommend them (usual disclaimer)

[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

 The result you have achieved with the back scene is very effective and I think the idea of a bridge over the end of the storage area will complete the scene well. I wonder if you might be able to add some superstructure (like a town tunnel entrance) in front of it so that one just sees the two main lines (and the other track near the TT) and not the points for the fan out of storage roads?

Thanks Geoff …….the idea of a town tunnel entrance is brilliant……I was thinking of some sort of bridge but a tunnel will allow some 3 dimensional buildings on a lift off section (all the terraces are lift off for storage access)…….it would add more depth and look better from both the front and side views………………thank you……great idea  

Evolving the TT area into a sub-shed is also inspired. You could perhaps cover the fixed solenoid with a sand house - even if it is no longer functional.

I wonder what we might see in another 5 days time??

I was thinking about that and I have rescued from Granby II a sandhouse that I modelled on the one at Didcot……however I think it should have rail access for the bulk delivery of sand so I think I may justl create a generic GWR corrugated shed

5 days time???  Targets are dangerous………hopefully the shed finished and trains running through (almost through) the junction at the other end of the room……….which segues neatly into John's post 

[user=446]John Flann[/user] wrote:

When will you get around to serious operation?

Touche………….I dont spend anywhere near enough time running trains on the finished part of the layout……….I hope to get the principal elements of the main line completed before the summer and then I should be able to develop timetables and have some relatively intensive running……….well thats the plan

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

I dont spend anywhere near enough time running trains on the finished part of the layout……….I hope to get the principal elements of the main line completed before the summer and then I should be able to develop timetables and have some relatively intensive running……….well thats the plan

I have always worked on the concept of getting trains running & into an operating mode well before scenery was thought out , as operating with others, finds track errors for one, that have to be reworked, so I have been  thankful that ballasting & buildings have not been it the way.

I tend to do a module at a time and I do test it rigourously before I ballast. I like to break the different jobs up so that nothing becomes too montonous……after all it is a hobby.

Having said all that I do like completion and I hate to see part of a section incomplete………..the dairy site irritates me every day…..you have no idea how much self control I have to excercise not to start working on it right away….as in NOW:roll:

Right now despite my good resolutions I am sidetracked into finishing the new TT area rather than moving on to the next module…….I guess the truth is I like doing scenery………..but I should run the trains more often because when all is said and done thats the purpose of the exercise:lol:   

Regards

John, we all have different ideas on how we want to tackle our hobby - it has so many facets.