GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

Excellent stuff John!

For an "encore" would it be possible to see the same sequence but with a train departing Granby to some locale in the opposite direction? Just the settings / scenes, no need for the RRCo.

Colin

Peter sums it all up perfectly!!
Michael

[user=1512]Headmaster[/user] wrote:

That really is mightily impressive, John and we get to see some more shots of the layout and rolling stock.  It's also quite an insight into computer control….. very interesting.
Regards from a warm and sunny Faversham.

Michael

Thanks Michael…….glad you liked……as you will have guessed I always get a little nervous when I start writing about RR&Co……afraid I will turn people off

Cheers

John

[user=2137]Briperran[/user] wrote:

John

On your D5 Barmouth switchboard  you have flag icons on it are these the flagman things you have mentioned before if so what purpose do that actually serve are they some sort of select-able action?

Brian

Hi Brian

I will answer Peters questions first if I may……it will then be easier to explain the flagmen!

Cheers

John

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Fascinating stuff John.

I can see from posts previous to mine that you're going to have some questions to answer !!!

A few from me - do the numbers  - "687D2", "663U3" etc. relate to trains, locomotives, schedules or what.  I guess the "D" and "U" are "down" or "up" but who or what picked the numbers and what are they ?

You said -  "Each pair of brake and stop markers are set up with specific distances.  D5 is 73" long  If I wanted the train to stop at the very end of the  block the Stop marker would be set at 70" (to avoid fouling the adjacent  line). The brake marker would set to activate after the the train had  travelled 46" from first entering the block…..once activated the train  would progressively slow for 24"…..finally stopping at  70" …………..

Where are the distance markers on your screen shot - I can't see any gradations or does RR&Co work it out for you ?

Having explained this one operation, I can see how it could take an age to set up some complicated moves, be extremely taxing mentally and yet highly satifying when it all comes together and works !!

The photos are brilliant too.  :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs

Hi Peter

Glad you found the post interesting……and liked the photos……..the Affinity editing programme is brilliant!

687 D2     You are correct D2 is the second down storage siding. Its just a label I created. There are 5 up sidings and 5 down sidings.I sometimes add a location… Barmouth, Birkenhead etc to add realism and perhaps more importantly to help me remember its location/purpose

Each block is connected to the DCC bus via its own unique occupancy or current indicator. The output from these indicators is fed into a decoder (similar to the LS150s used for turnout control ). Each decoder receives output from up to 8 indicators. Thus occupancy in block D2 is detected by indicator #7 connected to decoder #68…….687

The protocol for numbering the decoders is similar to that used for the LS150s. If I punch F6 into the Lenz throttle followed by 68 the display will show which of the 8 blocks connected to 68 are occupied.

When setting up the RR&Co block diagram the assigned indicator number is listed in the properties of each block.

Information to and from the accessory decoders is fed from RR&Co via a computor interface into the Lenz Xpressnet bus

Where are the stop and brake distance measurements?

The D5 window I showed at the bottom of the block diagram is actually a display tool rather than a properties record……its used when checking a schedule so you can see the progress of a train and whether the correct markers are actually activated.

The distances for stop and brake markers are entered and displayed in a block editor window which is part of the properties display for each block.

Thats a long clumsy answer but I hope it helps?

Cheers

John

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

[user=2137]Briperran[/user] wrote:

John

On your D5 Barmouth switchboard  you have flag icons on it are these the flagman things you have mentioned before if so what purpose do that actually serve are they some sort of select-able action?

Brian

Hi Brian

I will answer Peters questions first if I may……it will then be easier to explain the flagmen!

Cheers

John

The flagman concept is a very flexible and powerful tool.

It is triggered by a specified event…….and this triggering or activating can be subject to specific conditions

In my post the two flagmen in D5 were being used as virtual occupancy indicators. One of them was used to stop the relief loco…… I couldnt use the contact indicator to activate a stop marker …..it was already on with the block being occupied.

The flagmen was triggered ie turned on when the contact indicator 836 in the Loco exit road turned off.  In other words when the relief loco left the exit road on its way to D5…….the flagman indicator turned on a fraction before the loco entered the occupied block D5……to all intents and purpose it acted as an occupancy indicator….the  associated brake and stop marker were activated and the loco stopped. To prevent the flagman activating every time CI 836 turned off I added a condition……..only trigger when the coupling schedule is running.

Does Itrain have something similar?

Best wishes

John

[user=2170]Colin W[/user] wrote:

Excellent stuff John!

For an "encore" would it be possible to see the same sequence but with a train departing Granby to some locale in the opposite direction? Just the settings / scenes, no need for the RRCo.

Colin

No problem…….although I cant guarantee there will be no mention of RR&Co :lol:

There are now three suburban services running from the North Bays of Granby

A GWR BSet to Cynwyd on the lower level branch

Two LMS 3 car rakes to and from "Birkenhead"

Two Autotrains sandwiching a 14XX to "Warrington"

Here are two videos made a couple of years ago



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[yt]V8yGlLt_qxE[/yt]

 
Best wishes

John


Edited links now sorted

Huzzah!

Now, if you know Winnie the Pooh, you will know that when Pooh visits Rabbit 'for a litle something' before getting stuck in a tight place, Rabbit asks him " Will you have condensed milk or honey on your bread?" and Pooh replies " Both…" and so as not to look greedy adds "but don't bother about the bread!"

Re Grandby? "Give me all the pictures, but don't bother about the RR&Co…."

Seriously, I'm very impressed with your 'teknackle ability',  and quite content to slip by the difficult stuff!

Doug

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

[user=2137]Briperran[/user] wrote:

John

On your D5 Barmouth switchboard  you have flag icons on it are these the flagman things you have mentioned before if so what purpose do that actually serve are they some sort of select-able action?

Brian

Hi Brian

I will answer Peters questions first if I may……it will then be easier to explain the flagmen!

Cheers

John

The flagman concept is a very flexible and powerful tool.

It is triggered by a specified event…….and this triggering or activating can be subject to specific conditions

John in Itrain it uses a facility called actions which works in a very similar way your flagman does for activating many different things you can assign to the action in any position. Version 5 was released at the beginning of the year and with each release it has had more added features and improvements and is becoming a very popular package now probably mainly because of its capabilities it can do now and of course the price is a lot less than railroad & co. I still think Railroad &co looks better graphically her friewald  has made it look very good onscreen i dont know if he is still developing or not thou as i did note on RMweb thread he hates the english now and put the price up for english users. With Itrain the developer in constantly still adding to it he doesn't P about fixing any bugs
and adds improvements   we have had 3 patch improvements already this year with version 5.

Brian

[user=2137]Briperran[/user] wrote:

…………………………………………………………………as i did note on RMweb thread he hates the english now and put the price up for english users……………………………………………….

Brian

That's interesting Brian.  If that's true, one hopes it's just the "English" as a Nation rather than "English speakers" given that one would imagine the States offers a massive market for him.  Upsetting English speakers globally could have a serious impact on his bank balance ……………….

What made RMweb come to that conclusion - or was it just a comment from a disgruntled user who, having spent all his savings on the Gold version,  couldn't make it work ……………?

Peter here is the thread on Rmweb  there seems to be quite a few customers who are not happy about the situation.

Rmweb freiwald thread


Brian

Interesting reading Brian - rather than clog up John's thread, I suggest we continue the discussion elsewhere ……………

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Interesting reading Brian - rather than clog up John's thread, I suggest we continue the discussion elsewhere ……………

I dont have a problem discussing it here but to avoid boring the majority of Granby's followers I have replied in a new topic in the RR&Co section :lol:

Cheers

John

That's where I was going to open a new thread John.   :thumbs

[user=312]Chubber[/user] wrote:

Huzzah!

Now, if you know Winnie the Pooh, you will know that when Pooh visits Rabbit 'for a litle something' before getting stuck in a tight place, Rabbit asks him " Will you have condensed milk or honey on your bread?" and Pooh replies " Both…" and so as not to look greedy adds "but don't bother about the bread!"

Re Grandby? "Give me all the pictures, but don't bother about the RR&Co…."

Seriously, I'm very impressed with your 'teknackle ability',  and quite content to slip by the difficult stuff!

Doug

Aw shucks and there was me hoping to convert you!



Cheers

John

Once again, super videos John… and some very neat editing.  Do you use any special software for that?
I love the story of the operations and continue to be astounded at your patience and knowledge of the software.  Very smart

Michael

[user=1512]Headmaster[/user] wrote:

Once again, super videos John… and some very neat editing.  Do you use any special software for that?
I love the story of the operations and continue to be astounded at your patience and knowledge of the software.  Very smart

Michael

Thanks Michael……I just plonked them in from Youtube in response to Colin’s request

They were both made a few years ago andone of the aims wasto demonstrate the number of trains a single operator can have on the move

They are quite fun to make…….hopefully I will mske another soon starring the Oxford Dean Goods!:shock:

I shoot them on the iphone and ipad. For the more intricate ones I use some software where the phone is the camera and the ipad acts as a controlling monitor

They are edited with Apples imovie…..its free and reasonably effective

Best wishes

John

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

[user=2170]Colin W[/user] wrote:

Excellent stuff John!

For an "encore" would it be possible to see the same sequence but with a train departing Granby to some locale in the opposite direction? Just the settings / scenes, no need for the RRCo.

Colin

No problem…….although I cant guarantee there will be no mention of RR&Co :lol:

There are now three suburban services running from the North Bays of Granby

A GWR BSet to Cynwyd on the lower level branch

Two LMS 3 car rakes to and from "Birkenhead"

Two Autotrains sandwiching a 14XX to "Warrington"

Here are two videos made a couple of years ago




 




Best wishes

John

 Edited links now sorted

I do love the weathering on those LMS coach roofs, John. How did you do it?

Regards Connor

I'm always amazed at what can be achieved with RR & Co at the single press of a button John but even more amazed at your mental prowess in working it all out - move by move ! 

Not simply "pull the empty carriages into the storage bay" but exactly what that entails, inch by inch.  We all know computers, clever though they are, rely on we mere mortals to do their thinking for them.

Whilst watching, I did wonder how you achieved such perfect running from both locomotive and track……………  "Playing" with mine, as I now am partially able to, dirt, in one form or another, often rears it's ugly head causing, at best,  a stutter and at worst, a sound restart.  Whilst some of my problems were undoubtedly caused by the unit bouncing around on the bak of a lorry during delivery, dirt remains a big problem.

Granby is an extremely complex layout and yet it appears you don't suffer from that problem.  How often do you clean your track and stock and what method do you use ?

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

I'm always amazed at what can be achieved with RR & Co at the single press of a button John but even more amazed at your mental prowess in working it all out - move by move ! 

Not simply "pull the empty carriages into the storage bay" but exactly what that entails, inch by inch.  We all know computers, clever though they are, rely on we mere mortals to do their thinking for them.

It is honestly not really as complex as it might appear. Each "routine" consists of a number of individual schedules most of which are pretty basic…start in Block A and go via Block B to finish in Block C…….you connect the blocks by selecting from a list of routes (including the turnouts) that Train Controller set up when you originally laid out the switchboard. After all these years, setting up and testing these individual schedules is pretty straightforward.

 The complicated bit that requires a lot of testing and sometimes ingenuity is when you change the structure of a train….adding or taking away locos and or rolling stock. Herr Freiwald has, quite rightly, installed locks and procedures to prevent the unexpected happening……..but sometimes the only way you can get something to happen is by finding a way around the said locks and procedures! :shock:


Petermac wrote:

Whilst  watching, I did wonder how you achieved such perfect running from both  locomotive and track……………  "Playing" with mine, as I now am  partially able to, dirt, in one form or another, often rears it's ugly  head causing, at best,  a stutter and at worst, a sound restart.  Whilst  some of my problems were undoubtedly caused by the unit bouncing around  on the bak of a lorry during delivery, dirt remains a big problem.

Granby is an extremely complex layout and yet it appears you don't  suffer from that problem.  How often do you clean your track and stock  and what method do you use ?

"Perfect running"  praise indeed……you have no idea how happy that phrase made me :Happy


I guess one day I should make a video of the out takes and bloopers! Its astonishing how a routine that has been tested N times goes beserk the moment a video camera appears. I have a self imposed rule that a videoed routine  has to run seamlessly…….if one segment fails (typically a failure to uncouple) I have to reshoot the whole thing otherwise its a bit like cheating at Patience….thats not to say there isnt a lot of cutting and splicing  particularly when I use a number of different camera angles.

The locos I use have to perform consistently……I spend a lot of time fiddling with pickups …..most tender locos, particularly the small ones have tender pick ups added. The discovery of Zimo decoders and Stay Alive has been a major breakthrough……..previously I would always visually check that an uncoupling sequence had happened……nothing more embarrassing than a loco heading off to the turntable still hauling three coaches!………now I expect it to be successful and there are some routines I no longer even check!

I find that frequent running with DCC keeps the track clean………I have some venerable Peco Track Erasers which are used occasionally….particularly on track that hasnt been used for a while. I do spend a lot of time cleaning the loco wheels with a cotton bud and IPA (rubbing alcohol)……its astonishing how much crud they pick up……..while cleaning the wheels I check the pick ups….they too pick up crud…. wisps of cotton bud and hairs from the dog…..gold medal at world shedding championships 2019 :twisted:

Sorry…another long rambling post but I do hope I answered all your questions.

"Perfect running"  I do like that phrase :lol:

Cheers

John