GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

[user=1766] :mrgreenjakesdad13[/user] wrote:

Great post John, loaded wagons going in and out of a coal yard has always been a bug bear of mine so having removeable loads is excellent, if I can offer a suggestion, the foam infills, cut an angle at the ends so that when lifted there isn't as much chance of the ends catching and lifting the wagon, also the suggestion of a lump of metal in the load so it can be lifted with a magnet is a good one, I use a drawing pin with a bit of coal dust glued to it then painted satin black.

Cheer's, Pete.   

Thanks Pete glad you liked the post. That's a good idea about trimming the ends and the use of a magnet on an embedded drawing pin.

As I said to Peter my dilemma now is whether to swap the wagons rather than the loads……loaded and unloaded are identical pairs apart from the wagon #…………at the end of the day the great hand from the sky has to be involved!:shock:

Regardless only loaded wagons will enter the coal yard and emptiesdepart:lol:

Best wishes 

[user=1814]Longchap[/user] wrote:

Thaky you John for your kind understanding,

The experts in that other place sometimes cause a degree of frustration, which at least is usually entertaining. However, on the subject of the Dean Goods, I am rather hoping that their critisismn is bringing must needed improvements and if so, is a great result for the RM movement as a whole and congratulations also to Oxford, for listening and acting to constructive input. This certainly seems to be working with the NRM's Dean Goods, although it is still way too shiney, although I appreciate why.

I also hope that the footboards on their four wheeled Toad have cut outs simply to facilitate the sample mock up, which shoud have correct examples for the production versions.

Hot and sunny here, so off to clean the pool and enjoy the great outdoors.

Best,

Bill

Thanks Bill………I do admire your optimism…….you are clearly a " glass is half full " man:lol::cheers  

You may well be right about the Dean Goods……the plain version release has been put back to Q4……one can but hope.

Cheers

I am afraid that guests from the UK and a major update to RR&Co have delayed finishing the Cattle Train.


So to pass the time here is something


 Completely different:







Hatton's Warwell.

Warwells were originally built during WWII to transport Tanks in the build up to D Day  and were used for all manner of tasks thereafter

Superb detail, crisp lettering,smooth running and an ideal time stamp…..whats not to like?

 Well the price perhaps. Its undoubtedly the most expensive RTR wagon to appear on Granby.

 Many of you will know that I categorise projects/purchases into Must do,Should do and Could do. I am still not entirely clear how the Warwell ……half way down the Could buy list appeared so quickly in Vancouver!

Of course the nett result of its appearance was that a suitable tank shot to the very top of the must buy list.

Oxford have recently produced models of the Sherman tank…….for which the Warwell was originally designed……although no longer the pre-dominant British Army tank, Shermans were still being moved around in 1948. Unfortunately the Oxford models available were in desert liveries that would have involved repainting and some modification. It seemed just as quick (and cheaper) to buy a kit.

After much research, being a PBI I know little about tanks, I opted for this :


 

Its a resin casting of a Comet……until a few weeks ago a tank I had never heard of…..it was produced too late for D Day but served very effectively in NW Europe, and after WWII in Korea, before being superseded by the Centurion.Perfect for Granby's time period.

This was not the bargain of the century…….the initial price compared favourably with Oxford but coming from a small supplier Post and Packing were off the scale…..more than the cost of the model! Not long after I bought it, Airfix re -released their Sherman kit!  One lives and learns…even at my age.

Its interesting to compare a Military model kit with a wagon kit Here are the bits and pieces




Lots of fine detail on the body and turret……lot of flash on the small mouldings.

 No instructions or exploded diagrams.

 I think I have worked out where everything belongs…….although not the function of all of them.

Assembly will be interesting!

Regards from Vancouver

Not surprised it was superseded John - it doesn't have one of those long pointing things at the front ………….. :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:

The warwell looks like a pretty decent model - is that how it came or have you done some weathering/dulling down on it ?

I too had never heard of the "Comet" - British built or US ?  There seem to be bits of Centurian there but also, possibly, bits of Panzer.  I'd say nothing of Sherman …………… :hmm

Are you planning a train of them - maybe heading up towards the Brecon Beacons although I'm not sure tanks got there very often.

The Comet was a later variant of the Cromwell with a better gun and was created to try to compete with the latest Panther and Tigers towards the end of the war.

There is currently a chap on eBay selling ready built ones to a very good standard for £16.00 but £7.00 postage on top of that.  If you buy a few he combines postage, which helps.  This is a loaner to the Americans!

I have bought a couple as well as Shermans to go on the warwells, which will all eventually be weathered together.

The  Comet was a British designed and Built Cruiser Tank and the Predecessor to the Centurian in design terms. it served 1944 to 1958.
The Centurian came out in Numbers 2 years later but the first prototypes reached Europe just one month after the end of WW2.

 Prior to WW2 the Britsh army had 2 types of Tank, Infantry and Cruiser. Infantry had very slow top speeds as they only had to keep up a walking pace but were originally much heavier built than cruiser tanks, which were light and fast. By the end of WW2 the cruiser type became the armies Main Battle tank, but became much heavier, and the infantry style tank was abandoned as with decent engines and gearboxes you could get a good speed out of any tank.

The Comet was rail transportable but the Centurian and all following Main Battle tanks were too large for the British loading gauge..

A question are the Warwell models, buffers heads round? because I believe they should be very Oval or "oblonged" or round with the tops clipped off, see this warwell which has two types!!




http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p697300565-3.jpg




 




Some were round with the top Clipped off like this..




http://www.departmentals.com/uploads/photo/ds3149.jpg









This was to stop the tracks catching on the buffer heads,

From what I have read so far the warwell waggons were supplied with differring buffer types depending on the owner.  As the models are also supplied in differring liveries I am sure this accounts for the different units.

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Not surprised it was superseded John - it doesn't have one of those long pointing things at the front ………….. :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:

The warwell looks like a pretty decent model - is that how it came or have you done some weathering/dulling down on it ?

I too had never heard of the "Comet" - British built or US ?  There seem to be bits of Centurian there but also, possibly, bits of Panzer.  I'd say nothing of Sherman …………… :hmm

Are you planning a train of them - maybe heading up towards the Brecon Beacons although I'm not sure tanks got there very often.

Hi Peter

I think Bunkerbarge and The Q have answered your Comet questions……they obviously know far more about the subject than I :cool:……..until a month ago I had never heard of a Comet Tank :oops: There is a great website that has a photograph of the 40 known Comet still in existence in 200?. Once superseded by the Centurion they got disposed of all over the world.

With the exception of the Kadee couplings the photo is straight out of the box. The wagon came with a little bag of bits and pieces which still have to be fitted. Unlike the Oxford version of the Warwell there are no transit securing chains just the attachment rings…..so I will be fitting chains and doing a fair bit of weathering….. I would imagine that by 1948 it would have seen a fair bit of service.

A rake would be nice …..but very expensive :roll: I am assured, by those that know, it was not uncommon to see a single Warwell with load in a mixed goods train……..when finished I will probably run it just with a couple of vans

There was a big tank range at Castlemartin near Tenby……I can probably develop a legend about the Marquis of Granby's Yeomanry T.A.  :lol:

Best wishes

John


 

[user=1938]The Q[/user] wrote:

A question are the Warwell models, buffers heads round? because I believe they should be very Oval or "oblonged" or round with the tops clipped off, see this warwell which has two types!!

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p697300565-3.jpg
   
Some were round with the top Clipped off like this..

http://www.departmentals.com/uploads/photo/ds3149.jpg

This was to stop the tracks catching on the buffer heads,

Mine are clipped and round just like the photo in the second link. I am afraid I didnt take a great photo so it is not at all obvious.

I should have mentioned that mine is the "on loan to the LMS" variant……….I dillied and dallied about buying and by the time I made up my mind the GWR version was sold out :sad: Fortunately Granby is a joint line so its not a big issue!

I really appreciate the interest you have shown Q and Bunkerbarge……you clearly know far more about the subject than I……..I hope I will be able to seek your advice as I inevitably run into assembly problems.

I intend to model the tank as in service but in transit  mode……..It has a tow hawser moulded on to the front and it would be far too much fret to remove it……..there is also a spade moulded on to the side……I doubt if that would be there but I am inclined to leave it. On the other hand I can cut the barrel off the machine gun and just fit the housing.

The downside of being in service mode rather than ex factory is that I will have to find suitable transfers……I may have to buy that Airfix Sherman kit after all!

Thanks again for you comments

 

John, the interest simply comes from the fact that I have been looking into the warwell flats a bit recently as, like you, I am hoping to incorporate them into the layout.  From what I can gather they were first designed and manufactured to carry Shermans up and down the east coast from the ports there to the assembling allied troops on the south coast, as you have said, in the build up to D-Day. As soon as their value was realised they were quickly spread much further afield.

I do think there is a great deal of 'poetic licence' available here as the flats were frequently mixed with other stock as required.  I hope to put together around six eventually and I am still toying with whether to go for the Hattons units, the Oxford units of the Bachmann ones.  The jury is still out.  As I am going with LNER stock on the east coast I can incorporate such items as LNER flats with cargo such as propellers and LNER and Royal Navy liveried tankers as a lot of munitions were brought into the country via the east coast on LNER owned ships and distributed via rail from there on LNER owned stock.

I have seen period pictures with Shermans, Fireflys, Cromwells, and Churchills on warflats and I'm sure there are plenty of other alternatives.

By the way you might find these useful:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bison-Decals-1-72nd-Scale-Cromwell-Centaur-in-WW2-Part-1-Item-No-72026-/302461756149?hash=item466c2022f5:g:FBQAAOSwq9NZw~--

[user=2063]Bunkerbarge[/user] wrote:

By the way you might find these useful:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bison-Decals-1-72nd-Scale-Cromwell-Centaur-in-WW2-Part-1-Item-No-72026-/302461756149?hash=item466c2022f5:g:FBQAAOSwq9NZw~--

Interesting but I note the cost is $9.99 with a postage charge to France of $22.90 …………………!!!!!  I wonder if Ryanair are planning to launch any transatlantic flights - they'll soon have plenty of spare aircraft………….. :roll: :lol: :lol:

I actually looked for an American supplier with John being in Canada.  There are plenty of possibilities in the UK who would hopefully levy a slightly more reasonable shipping charge to the EU.

Thanks Bunkerbarge thats very thoughtful of you……I am guessing that the decals will be so small relative to the model that the scale difference ( 1/72 - 1/76) will not be noticeable?

It will be interesting to research the most appropriate decals for 1948……..a number of the war time divisions continued on in the TA.

I look forward to following the development of your LNER project

Regards

John

Yes John, I would personally consider the difference in size between a 1/76 and a 1/72 decal to be indistinguishable.

I certainly wouldn't call myself an expert on Tanks, But with my grandfather being in the Royal Tank Corps (Regiment) from 1919 to 1953 and having an Uncle who used to work at the Armoured Vehicle Depot At Ludgershall, I couldn't help but to take an Interest.



Therefore  I decided to model Ludgershall on the edge of Salisbury Plain But 1941 so Comets and Shermans are a little late for me, I'll mainly be having Matilda IIs (Airfix).



If you decide to name your tanks, then the naming convention Was 1 RTR names began with A, 2 RTR, began names with B, ETC, I'm not sure what the naming convention was for TA regiments as they were numbered in their 40's.  Perhaps if you are modelling something Fictionally welsh maybe names begining with "LL"?:)

I believe today the Squadrons have taken over the previous regimental conventions for naming.



 I too am wondering how I'm going to afford a rake of Warwells, as actually I require a few more than just one rake. I did see someone at a show making them in Plasticard, that may be the way forward for me..

Thanks Q that was very interesting…….until I started googling "Comet Tanks" I had no idea Tanks were named…….I will have to dream something up once it is completed and painted……it will have to be something short or off the HMRCS transfer sheet  :lol::roll:  Dont fancy manipulating a load of individual letters……on the other hand "Paddington" etc doesnt sound very military!

Cheers

The Cattle train is finally done.

It took a while to find the Coopercraft kits that I think I bought in the mid nineties. I only completed a couple and the rest were squirrelled away part built. They survived two house moves……after a fashion!



Repaired, painted, lots of transfers applied and weathered…….. heading over the canal towards Cynwyd.







The cattle dock is just behind the creamery




The plan is to run a regular weekly schedule, exchanging two empty wagons for two wagons loaded with Cattle for the market at Mold.

I am not sure how prototypical it would have been to operate like this…..I suspect it was more likely that Cattle traffic on a small branch would have been handled by the daily goods……nevertheless its a convenient way of adding more traffic to the lower level!


I used the photo shoot to test the sequence that will eventually be automated.

The train enters Cynwyd by the relief loop and then backs into the Goods Yard





The observant may notice that there has been a loco exchange!




I used the photo shoot to test the sequence that will eventually be  automated. Quite useful. The 56xx, my original choice didnt like some of  the yard points, the train proved to be one wagon too long for the  goods siding and some of the kadee couplers were a tad high. 

The new loco is a very work stained ex ROD 2-8-0. Again probably unlikely on the branch (any thoughts?) but with the delayed arrival of the Oxford Dean Goods I am running a bit short on suitable Branch Freight locos. The branch storage sidings  already have 2 Pick up goods and a Coal train hauled by  two Collets and the only spare Pannier.


The 30xx stops over the uncoupler and detaches the two empty wagons that will be exchanged




I have become quite knowledgeable about GWR Cattle Wagon liveries…….so now I have more things I could worry about. :roll:

25" letters were applied from 1904 to 1920 and then 16" until 1936 when 5" lettering was applied in the bottom LH corner.  Changes in livery (ie lettering) were applied to new builds but only changed on existing stock when they went to the workshop for repairs or repaint. I believe that wagons were subject, in theory to a 7 year repaint schedule. I doubt if this schedule was adhered during the war years so the 16" lettering I have mostly used wouldnt be too out of place in 1948.

I suspect that the large 25" lettering would be a lot rarer and I probably should have re lettered the ones that I originally made…..but decided to show their advanced age by heavier weathering.

The oval lettering in the RH corners states "Not Common User Return to GWR".  Cattle Wagons were pooled by the Big Four in 1927. After less than a year, the GWR, believing their wagons to be superior to those of the other three, withdrew them from the pool…….hence the label.   I thought that was so typical of the GWR that I had to apply the decals even though they may not have survived the War when the wagons were again pooled. Having said that Bachmann applied them to their wagons which have 1936-1948 livery.
  




The ROD pushes the two empties along the Shed siding to the cattle dock



Couples with the two wagons already loaded……..after all my banging on about the significance of full and empty wagons I must confess I gave up on inserting cattle via a removeable roof.

The 30xx then returns to the train in yard siding  with the four wagons



Couples the loaded wagons in the rear to the train and then returns to the cattle dock with the original two empties



A question for the experts…..the 30xx is coded Class 3 for a previous working. Assuming that all the wagons are fitted what is the correct code for a Cattle Train picking up and dropping wagons at intermediate stations? My guess would be K "Pick up or branch freight". Excluding B "Stopping Passenger", the description for classes A thru F all mention Express which this train is not.

The two loaded wagons are attached to the train and it then leaves the yard via the loop relief for Mold




I almost forgot to mention……a couple of the Coopercraft bodies were beyond repair although the chassis were great so I substituted Parkside LNER bodies……….they almost look like the GWR W12s produced by Bachmann and Dapol except mine have two apertures, rather than one, in the doors………….I am sure everyone spotted that  blooper! :lol:

Regards from Vancouver

John, the variances with bodies,etc can be put down to the workshops doing rebuilds after a train accident.