A layout in progress, slow progress...

"Just read the instructions, unlike the guy on YouTube shaking his  applicator over a dollop of PVA’d baseboard with the earthing clip  firmly attached to a remote piece of trackwork! The best bit was that he  thought the resultant sticky clump foliage was perfectly satisfactory.  Some people should never venture out on their own!"

 They are referred to in my house as "Vidiots"  :lol: :lol:
[sorry but unable to do the "quotes" thing - must try harder - does it make me a Quidiot?]

Heartfelt thanks for all the kind responses regarding Fflyff – it is much appreciated by both of us. Our accustomising to the new order continues at a snail’s pace, and a pretty slow snail at that.

Work on the timetable and my first attempts with static grass have stalled however with the onset of some ‘good’ weather. During the recent stormy spell we lost a 6’ trellis and gate bedecked with a variegated ivy, and someone, not me, has decided that now would be a good time to do something about it. I’m just thinking about the shedload of brownie points being amassed…..

Many thanks Michael for the tips on static grass, the greenish paint was done a long time back so that I could take some photos of the layout without it looking like Hooton had been plunged into the Ice Age again. For the main ’hill’ I’ll probably repaint with some darker patches. And yes, Bill, I did see that video, and quietly thought…. there may be hope for me yet….. we’ll see if that hope materialises in the not too distant future, assuming I can get back in the loft – and I don’t hear the dreaded “while you’ve got your tools handy there’s the……”!

Fear not Barry, I haven’t even tried the “quotes” thing yet …

Keith

Amassed brownie points, wow, the stuff dreams are made from!

I'm sure you'll spend them wisely  :)

Best,

Bill

[user=1814]Longchap[/user] wrote:

Amassed brownie points, wow, the stuff dreams are made from!

I'm sure you'll spend them wisely  :)

Best,

Bill

Ah!! Sussed it!!

Nothing else to say, just pleased with myself.

Barry   :oops:

S’mae Bill and Barry

Apologies for the usual delay, I have been keeping myself busy, which is a good thing just now – but not in the loft unfortunately…. which is not a good thing at all.

One important fact regarding these brownie points Bill that I discovered to my cost very early on…. they are extremely perishable – spend them pdq, otherwise they’re worthless!….  and as the trellis has been delayed by something more urgent, I’m already fearful for the status of the early trellis points! Glad you’ve sussed it Barry.

When I’ve managed the odd half hour in the loft I have progressed the timetable – I need to get the trellis done before I start the static grass exercise, for which I want at least a guaranteed uninterrupted afternoon. The two odd services I’ve been rabbitting on about recently have now arrived in Woodside. Although the Wrexham train left Chester some 18 minutes before the Llandudno train – and called at Hooton well before the Llandudno train sped through, it is the Llandudno train which arrives 6 minutes earlier in Woodside - catching the Wrexham train before Rock Ferry. At least I can enable trains to ‘pass’ each other with the loops under Woodside –  yet another example how things, not even considered before I started laying track, just seem to work, with no planning at all – honest!

I’ve been trying this Landscape setting again, this time in Woodside, not as good as my original efforts with the Auto setting, so for under the roof shots I’ll be sticking to the Auto setting . Anyway, here are the two trains in Woodside, the Llandudno train behind a Fairburn tank in Platform 4 and the Hall with the Wrexham train just arrived in Platform 3, taken with the Auto setting – the same shot and another with the Landscape setting, and more, are in the Gallery – but for me, given the location, the Auto setting wins.



As you can see Woodside is still coping with the end of the rush hour – Platform 2 has a semi-fast train to Chester, while in Platform 1 there is a stopping train to Helsby. The TC London Euston (just two coaches) has just left Platform 5, and the pilot is now busy assembling the stock for a Shrewsbury train in Platform 5. The busiest time of the day for platform 5, which is mainly used for parcels. In just 22 minutes there are three arrivals and four departures. Once that lot has been sorted, the fat controller gets a well earned break… and may even be able to get some freight making an appearance….. unless of course that guaranteed uninterrupted afternoon in the loft actually does happen!

Better weather expected for the rest of the week so ‘I can get on with some more outside jobs, once the trellis is finished’….mutter… mutter!

Keith
 

Hi Keith
I can relate to the ever increasing list of outside jobs at this time of the year. I almost welcome the rainy days!

Cheers

John

Yes, John, I look forward to the rainy days, particularly after a prolonged dry spell! – but at least with a few outside jobs ticked off the list, and volunteering (before being told that is) to get the mower and strimmer out of hibernation in order to attack the grass, the brownie points are not far off an all-time high!
 
So now it was high time for me to attack my chosen very small area for static grass. However as part of this scenic exercise I thought that first I’d see if I could create something which looked like a bush from the piece of lichen which has been under the ‘rock’ for a long time. I’d sprayed it dark green/brown some time ago so now I just sprayed some adhesive on it and sprinkled some Gaugemaster leaves over it.
 
 

 
The resulting ‘bush’ actually looks better than it does in the photo, which makes a change – and so worth experimenting with the idea further later. I like to use natural stuff wherever I can, as Dave has done on his layouts, and in my photos you will see lots of odd bits of lichen all over the layout, saves having to store it somewhere. Living with a river behind the house and surrounded by mature trees the atmosphere is always quite moist, ideal for lichen. I hasten to add that the lichen I use is collected from the floor, nothing that is still ‘growing’ – after a stormy night, or just heavy rain, there is always something on the road, providing I get to it before it gets flattened. I rescued this twig on the road a couple of days back – courtesy of either the squirrels or possibly one of the many pheasants about  – they tend to crash into trees rather than land in them.
 


 
So, finally, on to the static grass….. I decided after I’d finished that the patch I’d chosen for my first attempt, a patch on an 45 degree slope with a ‘rock’ which had to remain free from any grass was, on reflection, not the best decision I’ve made. Still, how did I get on?….
 
I decided to mask off the area, to avoid covering everything, and I painted over most of the green paint.
 


Applied the glue and applied the first of the colours I’d chosen with the applicator… not very successfully…. proving to myself, yet again, that many electrical devices do not perform particularly well if you forget to switch on the thing first! Error corrected, I added the various layers – started with Spring grass (again), then Autumn grass and finally Patchy grass. I’m assuming it is around the middle of September when some of the grass starts to yellow, either at the end of the Summer timetable, or at the start of the Winter timetable, so I’m covered operationally. Anyway, here is my finished effort, complete with lichen ‘bush’ (not it’s final position, that’s yet to be decided)
 


 
I reckoned it passed my “that’ll do” test, just, particularly with the overall colours produced, but I’m sure compared to most it isn’t all that good. There is an element of hedgehog appearance to the ‘grass’ – not sure if the grass is supposed to stand vertical on the slope, or just perpendicular to the slope? – I am sure someone will put me right on that point. I am quite pleased though with how my piece of bark has become a half decent outcrop of rock in the grass. The next area I try will definitely be a little flatter than this, if I can get it right on something flatter I can then have another go at the slope the on the opposite side of the tunnel mouths, which also has a rock outcrop, and then possibly redo this slope. Other pics in the Gallery as usual.
 
For now though I think I’ll get back to running trains for a bit….
 
Keith
 

Hi Keith

The grassed area looks good - long and untended as you would expect it to be.  To that end, a feew more bushes/small trees would be likely, especially away from the track.  Near the line, the PW team would have them out I imagine.

Barry

Very nice Keith, maybe a little grass around the sign and stonework for extra realism :)

Thanks for the positive comments, I may try a bit more now…

  Barry, couldn’t agree more, more bushes/saplings will appear, eventually – but that is classed as ‘finishing off’…. which hasn’t even made it into the schedule as yet. It will depend somewhat on how the coal yard at Hooton, which backs onto this slope, develops.

  Phil, it would make life much simpler for me if I just sent you the before photos and you added the scenery, and I used the modified photos – it could be our little secret!

  I have actually earmarked some moss which I’ve dried out to drape down the bridge/buttress corner, and at the base, but again that’s classed as ‘finishing off’ – my grey cell can’t cope with scenery and finishing off at the same time – that’s why this layout is taking, and will continue to take, such a long time to get anywhere - that, plus my anorak attitude to running the timetable of the day, which always gets priority – once this run of Winter 61 is complete I’m looking at ’55/’56 – which will get the 0-4-2T out on the West Kirby branch from Hooton, and involve other motive power changes.

  There is also the small matter of exactly how much time I do get to spend in the loft… which has to be negotiated on a day-to-day basis…. particularly at this time of the year, when I could be outside…. apparently it does me good…

  Still want to know about static grass on 45 degree slopes…. vertical or perpendicular….?

  Keith
  

Grass grows upwards, it's the wind and animals that changes it's direction :)

Well done Keith, it all looks good and natural.

A closeup photo is always very harsh of what you would otherwise be viewing from a more normal perspective and from such a photo you can always see minor 'fault's' and of how it could perhaps be better - certainly in my case. But, yes, very well done. If this was your first attempt at static grass, it looks good. As Phil says, the grass tends to grow vertically, towards the light; it's only passing traffic - wind, rain, animals, people, that tend to cause it to do otherwise. As for feeling a few more trees/bushes may be needed - that's all part of the 'layout never gets finished' part of the hobby - you'll tinker about with it for years. And then tinker some more!

Nice idea with the lichen - must keep my eyes more open for some of that stuff when I'm out walking - shows some promise. I tend to use a fair amount of (selectively chosen) moss that I find lying around in the local woods. As an experiment, I collected some last spring/summer and kept it in an open box in a warm location to dry out - it still looks almost as green now as it did then - so it shows some promise that it'll not change much more once dumped - sorry, "placed" - on the layout. If it does go more a brown colour then so what, it'll still blend in reasonably well - a gradual changing of season? If it continues to 'grow' (as moss does in the wild) then normal trees, etc. grow, don't they? It makes reasonable tree foliage to go on the armatures and with a sprinkling of greenery it looks the part.

As for hedges, I got hold of some rubberised horsehair. It's available specially cut down to a suitable thickness before being put on sale. It can then be cut down further and with, again, a sprinkling of greenery/foliage makes some nice hedging.

Dave

S’mae Dave

Many thanks for the positive comments – and yes, I suspect I’ll be tinkering about in the loft for as long as I am able, and then a bit more…… still running a timetable from the 50s or 60s. It’s true what you say about photographs, never quite seems to capture the ‘feel’ of the layout. Possibly with all this computer stuff now that is no longer the case, but I’ll be sticking with my point and click camera for a few years yet.

Now, this grass question – I think everyone has misunderstood my question… or more likely I’ve not phrased it very well…. In Life no. 2 we spent fourteen years establishing and then running a small market garden on a Hebridean hillside – so I know all I need to know about how grass (and lots of other stuff) grows on the flat and on a slope. My question related to the alien (to me now, but hopefully that will change) world of static grass. I noticed when applying the first fibres, (once I’d remembered to switch on the applicator), that they appeared to stand perpendicular to the sloping surface, which gave what I termed the hedgehog effect, particularly on the top edge and the side edge. Admittedly by the time I’d added the third colour it wasn’t as noticeable. So all I was asking, just in case I’m doing something wrong with the applicator, is when static grass is applied do the initial fibres always stand perpendicular to the surface, even on a sloping section? I think this might be more a question of the properties of static fields which perhaps I should take up with my in-house physicist. Anyway, enough of this now, I reckon the subject is closed.

I’ve not collected a lot of moss as yet – there’s so much of the stuff around here it didn’t seem worth it. It is said that if you stand in one place for more than a few minutes around here moss will start to grow on you. The odd bits I have left on the layout have become quite yellow over the years, so I’ll be colouring the bits earmarked for the tunnel mouths. The lichen would make a decent hedge too, particularly the type I used here which gives you in-scale stems and branches, but it would take an eternity to collect sufficient for what I want to do.

I did buy some hedging a while back, in a box under the layout now of course, but wasn’t that keen on the look of it. The rubberised horsehair however sounds very interesting, for the hedges I have planned for the green bit around Hooton, I’d be interested in suppliers’ info, please.

Keith

Hi Keith

Here are a couple of pics from my wargaming activities.  Rubberised horsehair bought in A4 sheets about 1/2 inch thick from eBay.  Trimmed with a pair of shears to suit my needs.  A squirt of spraymount glue….



…and a sprinkle of blended foilage material to get this.  About 2 minutes work per hedge.  It would be easy to make longer sections for the model railway and they can be trimmed into any shape you like.



Barry

As Barry says, there's plenty of rubberised horsehair available, easily found on ebay. Just use the two words and there'll be quite a few choices for you of various sizes. Reasonably priced as well.

I tend to just cut the sheet into suitable lengths/thickness and then layer on a few bits of foliage of one description or another using PVA and then stick it down onto the layout. It bends nicely to suit the land on which it will sit.

Just recently I've been looking a bit closer at hedges and although there's quite a bit of greenery on them, there's also a lot of twigs visible, mostly along the sides, especially after they've just been pruned/trimmed by the landowner; so I don't tend to worry too much about making the 'hedge' virtually non-see-though. And from a distance, it looks fine (to me at any rate!).

I've no photos I can upload at this time as examples of my hedging, but hopefully there'll be an update on my layout in the coming week or two which will having some hedging 'on site'. But those from Barry look to be pretty good, more 'in green' than maybe mine are. Personal choice - that's what it's all about.

Cheers to you - and good luck with the hedging.

Dave

Dave

They are VERY green I know but these are wargame pieces and as such, just representations - scenery plays a whole different role in that World.

I totally agree with your comments about the woodiness of bushes - I think it should be possible to flock only parts of the horsehair and leave some of it bare.  It mighty need a paint beforehand though as the stuff I bought was an olive colour- not unlike woody bushes but a bit light perhaps??

Its also great fun, easy stuff to play with - you can glue it into lumps and carve any shape you like.

Barry

S’mae Barry/Dave

  Been collecting a few more brownie points, by getting out in this good weather…..

  Many thanks for the info on the rubberised horsehair – very interesting – quite similar to the lichen I was intending to use, but as I said will take me an eternity to collect. Anyway, had a look on e-bay as suggested and I’ve ordered some to try out, due end of next week. Must admit I can’t remember whether back in the 60s the hedges on the Wirral were kept as tidy as they sometimes are now… round here it is more of a road safety problem, they trim them hard March/April time, so then they are quite ‘brown’ until the new growth takes over, by September/October they are very green and untidy, just before the second trim. I’ll have a go with it and report back – initial thoughts are to spray it brown first, as I did with the lichen. I’m thinking of attacking the top green bit (nearest the main goods depot) – as I mentioned earlier I can remove it from the layout, so keep the mess to a minimum.

  Just a PS on static grass question – I checked with the physicist and charged fibres will stand perpendicular to the surface. Reading the instructions for the applicator, (bad habit of mine – I always just plough on, and if things go wrong – then I check the instructions), it states “causing the fibres to land in a vertical position on the glued area”, they’re assuming a flat surface. So that’s sorted.

  Keith
  

Going back to your comments Keith on post #327 regarding lichen.

Looks to be a good idea, not that - up until a day or so ago while walking along a gorge near Hebden bridge - I had ever knowingly spotted lichen of the type you photographed. And there it was, one dead, broken off branch lying almost on the path I was walking on. Of course, I had to strip a few pieces off along with a couple of small twigs with the stuff still attached. Never saw any more.

I was surprised at how brittle the stuff is; and, no doubt, rather fragile, not to be rough handled.

I've since done a little research on lichen and it's certainly weird stuff - but, as I say, I've never spotted any before in this form; plenty of the flat variety though. And I've walked though a good many wooded areas in my years.

Now all I need to do is find what to do with it all - do I spray it, or just break it down a little and 'plant it' in small clumps in the all over light green colour as picked? No doubt I'll figure something out in due course.

But thanks Keith for the photo and the idea that I could (just maybe) do something with it - if I'm careful in its handling.

Dave
I read somewhere that you should dip it into bleach to get rid of the bacteria and other such stuff that your layout would not appreciate. Not sure what effect that has though on the lichen itself. 

For information have a look on YouTube at The Terrain Tutor. Mel is a bit mad and he works in the wargame domain but some of his scenery techniques cross over. 

Regards

Barry

Hi Keith

To return, somewhat belatedly, to your question about static grass and the "hedgehog" effect….  By its nature it will generally stand at 90 degrees to the surface it is being fixed to, which I think is the problem you are alluding to, on the slope.  I read about using a camera "puffer" (a rubber ball with metal pointed end, used to clean camera lenses of dust) to "blow" the static grass into the position you want, while the glue is still wet.  So I duly went and bought one and gave it a go.  Now, I am not one to criticise the work of others, nor their ideas, but I couldn't really get it to work.  It may be that I was too impatient (often).  But you may have better success.  Simply lay the grass then use the puffer to "blow" the grass in the direction you want.  It isn't too powerful so you won't remove it and send it flying over other parts of your layout.

Then I read about using a vacuum cleaner to do the same thing, effectively "pulling" the grass in the direction you want.  Much more successful for me, although too often I sucked up chunks of the grass - being impatient again.  But I worked with it and tried using different substances over the vacuum cleaner pipe to  minimise sucking up the grass.  This helped, although I think I was also a little more careful.  But you can definitely get the grass to "grow" in the direction you want.  It also creates a bit of randomness which makes it appear quite natural from the viewing distance.

 Others I have seen successfully "brush" the grass in the desired direction with their hand.  Again, it all depends on your deftness of touch and patience.

And finally I have seen people use a hair dryer to blow the grass in the required direction - which also speeds up the glue drying time.

I'm pretty sure others will have their preferred method.
 
Whatever approach you choose, whether one of these or an alternative, working in small areas is definitely the way to go.  It would be great to know any results.
I hope this helps a little.
Regards
Michael