Using neodymium magnets between the sleepers

[user=606]Sol[/user] wrote:

Peter, re Perry's thread - I added to that as well & I use Code 75 & 3mm cube rare earth neodymium magnets between the rails.

Thanks Sol - I knew I should have re-read it before I posted my question ……………….. :oops: :oops: :oops:

Have a look here…

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=6277&forum_id=11&highlight=uncoupling+dooferdog

[user=34]Ken[/user] wrote:

Here are a couple of mine Peter and they work perfectly in N scale:-

Ken

That looks very neat Ken - and totally unobtrusive.  How many magnets did you use - looks like 4 but smaller than 3mm ……….. :hmm

I've re-read Perry's thread and, whilst it seems 3 rows of 3mm cubes perform admirably, there was no definitive answer to the problem of metal wheels and axles.

Replacing the wheelsets is not an option so I'm still worried that these magnets may be too strong.  They do seem to throw up as many problems as they solve……………….. :roll:

I'm pretty sure I read an article where they'd used rectangular rare earth magnets, mounted outside the rails, one each side.  Apparently, they worked well but I have no idea where I saw the article so don't know the size of them …………. :roll:

I know you have UK outline stock John (Dew), presumably with metal wheelsets, and with RR&Co installed, it's vital that the Kadees work properly.  Have you stuck with Kadee's own magnets John and if so, which ones ?

 Hi Peter

I am going to spend the weekend running some experiments on my newly converted kadee stock. I did a sort of pre test on a wagon with steel wheels and a steel weight and it was definitely a problem.  But I am thinking of putting the magnets underneath the sleepers, to reduce their pulling power.  Easy for me as the track isn't laid.  I think there are some experiments to be done with the number of magnets and their positioning too.    My head of physics at school suggested staggering them. That is, three magnets beneath or between one  sleeper and to one side, and then three on the other side, a sleeper further along.  He went into the physics of the magnetic fields, but I started to glaze over…..  I will happily share any results, good or bad. Apparently, if they are staggered, it will be worth experimenting with the poles too, so I fear there might be a lot of combinations to test.  And, apparently, different magnetic substances create different magnetic fields, which he quickly demonstrated with iron filings.  So it is also worth checking what the magnetic field of the rare earth magnets actually looks like as this may influence how we place them.

So maybe more experiments than just this weekend!

Regards

Michael

I found in 99% of the time, I have no problems in shunting Horny/Bachmann goods wagons using the Perry/Sol method of magnets.

Phew!  I certainly hope that is case for all of us, because it is a beautifully simple system, and one I was certainly hoping to replicate.  I will be more than happy to show that there isn't a better way of doing it!

Regards

Michael

Your experiments will be extremely interesting Michael - looking forward to the results.  I remember from my own misspent youth that magnets and iron filings can make some wonderful patterns…………..just keep them well clear of your precious locomotives.  :thumbs

That's good to hear Sol but I'd assumed you'd changed your wheel sets for those from Steam Era ……………..  :hmm

Whilst thinking about it all, I wonder if anyone has tried sets of 2 x 3mm cubes outside either side of the rails.   Obviously polarity would be important but that would be easily determined by splitting blocks just as in the "between the rails" method.  Maybe they'd be too far away from the coupling…………………. :hmm

Bumped as current interest being shown in this subject. 
Also a link to a simular Topic by Chubber :-   Uncoupling with Neodymium Magnets

And some posts by Ed with useful info :-       Ed's posts on using magnets


Cheers

Matt

Hi Matt.  Thank you. I did a thread on that, and it worked? Until the hooks kept falling off, PITA moment, but then I realised the potential of the Kadee system, once it works, and my plank worked faultlessly, until that is I tried to get more out of it, with the fiddleyard, and everything went wrong. Moral of this story, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it “.:sad: Best wishes Kevin 

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

[user=34]Ken[/user] wrote:

Here are a couple of mine Peter and they work perfectly in N scale:-

Ken

 

That looks very neat Ken - and totally unobtrusive.  How many magnets did you use - looks like 4 but smaller than 3mm ……….. :hmm

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote: 

know you have UK outline stock John (Dew), presumably with metal wheelsets, and with RR&Co installed, it's vital that the Kadees work properly.  Have you stuck with Kadee's own magnets John and if so, which ones ?

Apologies for the delayed reply

I use the "Delayed between the rails" Code 100…….in abundance :oops:


Here are a few in use at your dairy





This actually an action shot……there is one under the Pannier. There are two in the wash siding to give a longer uncoupling zone.

There is a non delayed magnet by the cattle dock (narrower and thicker)……..I only have couple of these in use……..unless placed, as here, at the very end of a siding , it is very easy to get unintended uncoupling.

The delayed work perfectly for me……they are a rather obtrusive but I like the flexibility….I can never quite determine the ideal spot for a schedule so they do get moved around a lot before I settle on a permanent home.

In an ideal world I would have below the track electro magnets activated, like the turnout motors by RR&Co……..but then in an ideal world I would have working signals! What did Terry (Col Stephens) say about the art of compromise?

As I seem to have naïvely kicked off the kadee and magnets debate again, I thought I would post here  the findings from multiple tests I ran today.  For track which is already laid, the 5 magnet system worked every time I tested it.  So it is just up to the individual to decide how they choose  disguise the magnets (and mark it so they can see it again!)  This was not a surprise to me, as far better modellers had already demonstrated it.  But the fact that a novice like myself could get it to work is further evidence of the system, if it was needed.

I mentioned on Peter's Plank thread that my head of physics had suggested staggering the magnets.  I will be firing him on Monday.  Not for his poor physics - they worked fine, but because of his lack of knowledge of kadee couplings. One opens, then closes as the other one opens!  I think I should have seen that coming!

What these early tests also showed me is the importance of the accuracy of fitting the coupling in the first place.  It certainly needs to be accurately centred.  Corrections have been made to my dodgy conversions (made easier having used card between the coupling and the wagon).  Those early celebrations didn't last as long as I hoped!  Hopefully fixed now, but I won't know until it is all up and working on the layout and not the test track.  I will experiment with glues other than superglue for fixing them in the future, as you really do seem to have it get it right first time with CA - any advice welcome.

Now, as I have not yet laid my track, I tried some experiments with mounting magnets under the track, buried in the cork underlay.  I had some spare 25x8x2mm neodymium magnets. These are much stronger than the 3x3x3 magnets.  One of these underneath the track, running parallel to the rail (so two for each uncoupling point) proved highly successful. They worked best with about 1 - 2mm of the magnet showing on the inside of the rails.  Any more than that and really wait for the glue to dry - no prizes for guessing how I know!  Easy to disguise because they will be ballasted over and a decent distance for uncoupling of about 2cm.  This has also greatly reduced the impact of steel wheels and even steel weights in wagons - although I have removed these and replaced (the weight, not the wheels). I tried lengthening the room for the uncoupling by using two magnets each side, "end to end".  This caused the coupling to open, then close, then open again, so I guess you need to use a longer magnet rather than two. 

For me, these magnets will be a cheap route to take because I already have sufficient.  I did notice that they are not as cheap as they once were…. but still more economic than the kadee ones.

So I think I will be able to fix track temporarily, work out the magnet positioning, test and test again, moving them if necessary, before I finally fix the track down.

I don't think I have discovered anything new or earth shattering, but this is my tuppence for what it is worth.

Regards

Michael

There are many ways of doing this Michael and what works for you, is the most important aspect.

Hi Michael.  This subject does raise its head above the parapet from time to time. I was misled by the 3 mm cube method as seen on YouTube. Until a gentleman of this Parish advised me that they were okay with code 100, where I was using, like so many, code 75 . Of my two “ Shunting Puzzles “ both using code 75 and 321 Kadee magnets,with the sleepers cut away to accept the magnet it occurs to me, that the puzzle that has developed a problem, has been due to the fact that I have been faffing around with the track leading to the “ rail gap across the baseboard joint”. I did “ toy with the idea “ of a section of code 100 track, using the 321 without the need to cut away the sleepers, and I have now decided to do just that, hoping that I can disguise the fact with some 6 mm static grass, not really something that I would prefer, but it may be a way around the problem???   Best wishes Kevin 

Sorry Kevin, just spotted this post.  If your track is already laid, then yes, your observations about the track code are probably right.  But if you have not laid track, or are prepared to rip up track and replace with code 100, then I suggest buying the longer magnets I mentioned and laying them under the track, parallel to the rails.  No need for fake disguising, you can ballast straight over them and they will disappear, and you can keep everything at code 75.  If you are prepared to use a test track you will be able to work out optimum positioning - it doesn't take long.  I would be quite happy to send you a couple of magnets to try out to see if they fit the job.

Regards

Michael

Hi Michael. Thank you. But the original positioning of the magnet was fine, until that is, I began faffing around with the track over the “ Baseboard Gap “ . And anyway I am always ready to change things, even if I return to the original.Best wishes Kevin 

Hi Kevin,


321? I thought were using a 312. You would be better off with a 308 under the track as Michael says. Lift the section of track, drill a series of holes to fit the magnet, and use a craft saw blade to do the final cuts. That way you keep The sleepers and the magnet is hidden. The 321 is designed for Atlas code 100, not Peco code 100. From memory slight adjustment is required with a 321 as Peco sleepers are higher than Atlas ties.

Nigel

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply . Alongside the magnet/rails  problem I am trying to make sense of the short circuit on the fiddleyard baseboard, it being the third plank/module that I have wired for DCC Electrofrog points,admittedly I have had the odd problem before. But I thought that was all behind me now. Incidentally I have a Bachmann entry level transformer/ controller that I use, used to use, for initial running of DC Locos awaiting DCC treatment . This morning I found the it had died, in other words “ The Light is on but there is no one at home “. Are you familiar with this controller?   Best wishes Kevin