Using neodymium magnets between the sleepers

Hi Ron Thank you for your reply. I had read about that method and was about to do the same, until that is, I read the advice on "22nd March 2015" from Max, and I quote "No more waiting overnight for the 60;40 PVA mix to dry. No more unjamming the throw bars" ….  First, take your Fine Glue Applicator". Next I went out to a Mode Railway Show and porchased some "Fine Glue Applicators" with a pin blocking the hole, just fill the bottle with PVA, remove the pin and away you go, simple.
And maybe that is why ? I cannot reuse the track?      All the best. Kevin

The water added to the PVA is only to make it go further Kevin - the "glue" is still PVA so, unless you used "waterproof PVA" - i.e. exterior grade - soaking it should still disolve the bond.  PVA is water soluble (although not in the same manner as alka seltzer !!!)

Having read your last post Sol, remind me not to have a bath at your house after you've been "modifying" the layout - could prove a little "scratchy" ………….. :cheers

To reuse the turnout, simply soak the area with water until the turnout lifts free with a scraper.   Then soak it until the PVA is washed away.  PVA is water soluble. 

In another post I reported that verdegris can be caused by soaking turnouts in water.

Hi Petermac.   Thank you for your reply. I do like a good soak in the bath myself, but have been forced to using the shower, since Ihad a fright, when I couldn't get out of the bath. The PVA is really cheap £1.00 shop stuff, but it just don't want to budge.    All the best. Kevin

You need patience.  It won't just fall of in a minute.

Hi Max.  Thank you for your reply. My experience of trying to lift a set of points was just the same with Peco flexitrack, where the rails were popping out of the chairs, with the points it was a complete disaster . And I left them for so long I had to use a duster soaked in water.to keep in the damp.    All the best. Kevin

Well, maybe I just imagined it.

Hi Max Thank you for your reply. I should have done my homework , then waited until I was completely satisfied with the layout, Uncoupling , etc. Before I committed myself to ballast. And that's another fine mess I got myself into!        All the best. Kevin

Hi Ron,   As a result of further testing? Today 29th August 2017.I used Superglue, and glued a line of five 3mm cube Neodymium magnets to a piece of plasticard . When the glue had set, I placed a length of Peco code 75 on top, then I took two random wagons from my asorttment of Dapol, Bachmann , Oxford wagons. All fitted with Kadee #19 NEM pockets . To my surprise some of the "Pins" caught on the magnets in passing where others did not, even on the same wagon. But the wagons did uncouple. I will have to label the couplings that were too low and revisit the Kadee height gauge. And wedge a piece of Plasticard in the pocket to hold it up. My question being " what size of plasticard would you recommend ?"
All the best. Kevin

In addition Kevin, it's worth checking the curve on the trip arm.  Sometimes, this is too little and has the effect of dropping the bottom of the pin.  Kadee sell a special pair of round nosed pliers to bend the arm - don't try it with ordinary pliers !!!

Petermac wrote:

In addition Kevin, it's worth checking the curve on the trip arm.  Sometimes, this is too little and has the effect of dropping the bottom of the pin.  Kadee sell a special pair of round nosed pliers to bend the arm - don't try it with ordinary pliers !!!

Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your reply. I am a silly Billy, when I wrote "pin", I just couldn't remember the word "trip"That is the word I associate with "cock" as in "Tripcock" the London Transport answer to safety,which has been fitted to the leading Bogie of an underground train, to apply the brakes if a train passes a red signal (SPAD).
All the best. Kevin

Kevin, I use a sliver of the thinnest of these https://kadee.com/htmbord/page211.htm
forced into the bottom of the box lifting the shank of the coupler up - that is if using the NEM 362 versions #17 - 20

BUT if you used the height gauge as per  https://kadee.com/html/205_206ins.pdf
the coupler trip pin should be clear of not only the normal Kadee magnet but well clear of the 3mm strip of magnets as they are level with sleepers.

Yes, one line will uncouple when you manual push wagons across it but use a loco and if you can stop every time over the one line of magnets to uncouple, your are " a perfect driver" but as that is almost impossible to do every time, that is why Perry & I recommend replacing 3 sleepers to give longer area to be able to stop over.

Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply. I agree with you but this was a test , and try as " one might?" It is a very clever man that can glue fifteen magnets in an orderly fashion in one go .   All the best. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

As Ron points out, patience is the key here. My technique is also to use dilute PVA (it is actually fine down to 10% PVA/90% water, by volume) to fix track and ballast. The only thing different is that I use thin sleepers where possible, so not so much ballast. Getting the glue soft enough for removing a section of track is best approached as a half-day or even overnight job.

Mask off the section to be removed after turning off the power and cutting the rails and sleeper webbing. Kitchen cling film or a piece of plastic sheet and masking tape are fine for this. Mist the track/ballast with water. Take some kitchen towel or shop towel (blue sort) and soak with water, place over track. Cover with cling film, plastic sheet (or aluminum foil) taped at the edges. Leave for a few hours or overnight. The PVA will be soft enough that a 1"-2"  flexible blade (polyfilla applicator type) will lift the track. At this point you will know why you painted the baseboard before laying track - it will come off a lot easier then when glued directly to wood. If you didn't you will need to let things dry out for another day or so. Never try and drill holes or remove wood when it's damp. When dry make the hole for the magnet.

Don't throw the removed section of track away. If you are not modifying the track plan it goes back where it came from. You paid more than a £1 a foot for it. It will look messy, dunk it in a bucket of hot water with some dishwasher liquid added for a few hours, then give it a good scrub with a stiff bristle brush (washing up type). Same goes for any turnouts you had to remove. Use the hair dryer to dry the track/turnout. You may have to add some dropper wires, although short sections can get away with rail joiners and solder.

For others reading this, if silicone sealant or similar was used soaking with water normally won't work. Brute force will, especially if the track was laid on a painted surface or cork/foam. Getting the track up will probably mean it's damaged beyond further use. If track was laid on a foam board the water method works fine if PVA was used. If one of the commercial foam board construction adhesives was used all bets are off. In that case cut the track, use a long blade cutter or fine hacksaw blade to remove the track/foam, replace with a new piece of foam and an appropriate adhesive. Use a thin piece of ply (1/8" thick from the model shop works well), glued to the underside with foam compatible CA to keep the new piece of foam and magnet in place while the foam adhesive sets.  Small pieces can be kept in place with masking tape.

It pays to think about track removal before you start laying it. That thick layer of neat PVA underneath and slightly diluted PVA used for ballasting will certainly keep it in place, but will involve more work and a lot more "oh dear, well I never" moments to get the track up. It also pays to have a track bed (1mm or 2mm cork or HD foam) between the rail and the baseboard. It's often easier to remove that along with the track and dunk it in the bucket to free the track.

"Bin there, dun that" on all the above.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. That is where l came in? Coming back to railway modelling as I did, after 40 odd years, back in 2015. After along time, it was like starting all over again, and I was in a rush as I had never used ballast before. I had heard of various ways to ballast and I went for the " soft option?" Had I made allowances for the Uncoupling magnets before I ballasted the track, then I wouldn't be in this position now. But that was the idea, to gain experience on a small scale, before advancing to a regular layout.    All the best. Kevin

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply. I agree with you but this was a test , and try as " one might?" It is a very clever man that can glue fifteen magnets in an orderly fashion in one go .   All the best. Kevin

Now I glued the middle row, waited 3-4 minutes for Super Glue to set  **** , added the small thinner card/balsa/plastic separator than keeps the magnet strips apart, glue the next one in- holding it with one hand while fitting another separator between that magnet strip and the adjoining normal flex track plastic sleeper so that this magnet strip does not try to turn to align north/south poles. Then in about 3-4 minutes, do the other side strip. I guess in total about 12-15 minutes.    **** I guess it also depends on the brand of Super Glue used - get a quick setting one.

Hi Ron.  Thank you. With the Superglue do you buy/mean "High Viscosity "? I will have to try that myself.But what about the "spacers" do they ever get stuck?   All the best. Kevin

I used cheap super glue and it works . The spacers are about 1.5mm thick & stay glued  just with the little bit of glue that will spread out from under the magnet strip and once you paint the track & ballast, they vanish from sight.

Thinking ahead again ………………

I'm planning to use neodymium magnets for uncoupling.  I think, in Perry's excellent thread on the subject, he had Code 100 track.  I will be using Code 75.  Has anyone had experience with these on Code 75 track and if so, what size magnets did you use.

Secondly, I understand there could be problems with metal axles.  I'll be kit building my shunting puzzle wagons - probably Parkside - and these have metal wheel sets.  Any advice on how many and where to place the magnets ?  Ive seen cube magnets between the rails but also block magnets outside the rails ………………… :hmm

Peter, re Perry's thread - I added to that as well & I use Code 75 & 3mm cube rare earth neodymium magnets between the rails.