Detailing upgrade

Hi All.   Having misread the collectors guide , and purchased the incorrect
Railway Van, it has been suggested, by the "Local Club Secretary"
That I can improve the look of "R178" with a Roxey Mouldings" detailing
kit, but how?? On club nights everyone is too busy to help.
Would one of you fine persons please give me some tips? And is it worth the effort or might I just make a "Pigs Ear out of a SILK PURSE"
UPDATE.   CORRECTION
    all the best. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

The cost of that Roxey detailing kit would go a long way to getting a Hornby R4536 when one comes on the market. These kits require fiddling, fettling, and usually some swearing as well. Plus a repaint and possibly new decals. Or get a Ratio kit - from what I can see highly thought of and about the same price as the Roxey detail kit. Needs paint and decals.

Nigel

Kevin, I'm with Nigel in principle.  While I have avidly upgraded older models in the past, you have to know where to draw the line.  Sometimes a pigs' ear is just that and no amount of finagling will make it into a silk purse.  I haven't seen the van in question in detail so it's hard for me to judge.  I think you would need to try to confirm the basic dimensions and layout (windows and doors).  The basic body has to be accurate to start with and I know Hornby have taken liberties with this in the past.  I have seen some very old Hornby "models" and I wouldn't go near them.  It also depends on the level of fidelity you are after in the finished model.

Surely someone in the club can take 10 minutes to examine the van and give you an opinion as to whether or not it is worth the effort.

You can do a lot with a decent kit, like the Ratio example Nigel refers to.  If you have access to Model Railway Journal, there's an article about building this kit in Issue 18 (1987).

John

 

Hi Nigel.  Thank you, as it happens I have written that Ratio phone number on Mondays Diary Page. I could not understand why I this day and age I couldn't find their email address. But fair enough there are loads of people who avoid the Internet and I have sent an appeal/ wish list to Hornby, for them to do a new " Bogie B Brake Van(with Guards Compartment ". I can only dream.  all the best Kevin

Hi John.  Thank you, my point is to be happy with the original model, or you may end up regretting it, like those persons who go in for plastic surgery, when they should have been happy with what God had given them. As for magazines , I didn't realise until I had a good look around at how many magazines I had, (not Railway) but Gardening, Angling, you name it, and the money that had been spent, only to create a "Fire Hazard" to make matters worse no one wanted the Magazines so they all went in the recycling bin. By the way I was referring to this week, when the star layout is packed away, to go to a model railway show, I'm sure that there will be another week.  all the best. Kevin

Ha ha, Hornby is hardly an omnipotent or omniscient entity.

Ratio is now part of Peco: PECO PRODUCTS

Available here (the first hit I got, so there may be others):  Parkside Kits PC592 SR Bogie B Passenger Luggage Van Plastic Kit OO

The price is bit eyewatering though.

Ah, magazines, they do accumulate quickly.  I have cut a lot of them apart and scanned articles of interest into my computer - then recycling.  I'm due to do that again soon.  MRJs are keepers though, I have almost a full set but admittedly, some of the earlier articles are kind of obsolete.

John

What  Triang referred to as a "utility van" has been in the range for a long, long time. There is a discussion on RMweb about what the oldest item still in production in Hornby's range might be, and several of us have come up with the "utility van", which is not in this year's range but certainly appeared relatively recently in a train pack.

It was never an accurate model, being a hybrid of two Southern designs, and intermediate in length and details. However, it always managed to capture the essential character of these vans, and as such, never seemed to look wrong.

The Roxey detailing packs do improve them, but to get the best out of them you need to reprofile the roof, which takes a lot of elbow grease. The underframe detail is pure 1950s, but if you can do sonething about that, and perhaps the wheels and bogies, the rest is quite passable, as long as you can accept that it is dimensionally wrong. The BR1 bogies are not far removed from proper SR steam bogies, and by removing a couple of moulded flanges at the upper ends, can pass muster at viewing distances. If you don't like those, the Roxey kit has some etched brass replacements (not in my photo, still in the box) with whitemetal spring detail and new pivot points - a lot more work but a lot more accurate.

Roxey's kit includes finer doors, roof vents, etched grilles for the windows, better gangways, and various other bits and pieces which all contribute to a finer scale appearance.




Edit: this link to a PDF document on the SEMG site gives a lot of detail that may help too (with thanks to the member of the other forum who posted the link earlier). http://www.semgonline.…oach/coupe/coupe_se08.pdf

Hi Jeff.  Thank you, when there is a quiet moment? At the model railway club I will put the question to our secretary. He was the one who first put me onto Roxey Mouldings . And then it will be Slowly, Slowly Catch a Monkey?
all the best. Kevin

That's a tasty looking packet of bits Jeff - right up my street.  I am concerned about comments in the article you posted about fundamental inaccuracies though.

I bet that pack costs quite a few bob - perhaps the accurate (I assume) Ratio kit would be a better choice.  I might even go so far as to suggest combining the kit and the Roxey pack.  I know from experience that Ratio bogies tend to be fragile so more robust w/m ones would be better.  MJT (from Dart), Brassmasters and Bill Bedford (from Eileen's) do very nice etched compensation units.  I used Bills bogies (which are sprung) on my LMS GUV.  http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=12618&forum_id=150&page=1

John

Just to clarify: the current Hornby Bogie B is a very accurate and finely detailed model; the old "utility van" such as the R178 model Kevin bought is not accurate and has a mixture of features. However, I, and a lot of other modellers, still like the old "utility van" because it captures some essential character of the ex-Southern (or earlier) Bogie Luggage Vans. The Roxey kit allows one to make it more accurate, but still not entirely so.

See my photos in the earlier topic showing the new one (in weathered green) against the old  one (in BR blue).

Edit: photos reposted here for comparison.

Hi Jeff.  The curren Hornby Bogie B Van, is that Southern? Or BR(S)?
And is it Green or are you referring to the Churchill Funeral Train Van?
If you know the correct number of either green Bogie B Passenger Brake vans would you please forward it or them to me, so I don't make the same mistake again?   all the best. Kevin

Thanks for the clarification Jeff.  The newer van looks very nice indeed - not a lot to do.  As for the old one, well, it depends on what you want.  One of the first things I'd do to the old van is tackle those horrid security bars - is there something in the Roxey pack to cure this?.

Hi Kevin.

The green is BR(S) (i.e. Southern Region) green. 

Hornby's catalogue numbers for the Bogie B were R4536 (van no. S239S), R4536A (Van no. S204S), and R4536B (van no. S219S) for the BR green ones.

Their Southern Railway olive green versions were R4535 (van no 359), and R4535A (van no. 377).

There was also BR blue R4585, and BR crimson (not maroon as described in some shops) R4586.

There may possibly have been others, but I haven't scoured all of the catalogues.

The Winston Churchill funeral train pack had the old Gangwayed Luggage Van model in Pullman umber and cream colours.

[user=565]Brossard[/user] wrote:

Thanks for the clarification Jeff.  The newer van looks very nice indeed - not a lot to do.  As for the old one, well, it depends on what you want.  One of the first things I'd do to the old van is tackle those horrid security bars - is there something in the Roxey pack to cure this?.

Yes, there are etched brass grilles for the windows. They were on the other etch that I accidentally left in the box.

I was also able to get just the window bar etches for the old Ratio Bogie B kit, which for all of its unnecessary complexity with etched bits that didn't need to be separate, they didn't include anything for behind the windows!

Incidentally, just for the record, that blue van of mine is unmodified apart from finer scale wheels.

OK Jeff, I assume that in the near future you will apply the Roxey pack to your van.  Look forward to seeing that in your thread.

John

Hi Jeff  Terrific photos, but , here's the thing?? I have seen the number R4536 in a catalogue next to a "Steam Loco".Unless someone has made a mistake?? they are using the numbers again.             all the best Kevin

Hi. Jeff.  I don't know if I have answered your messages today or yesterday, as BT Broadband were giving me problems .
But I did contact Hattons about bogies for the Rattio Kit
all the best Kevin

I'm not sure that the Bulleid bogies are accurate for the bogie B but they are probably the nearest thing in ready to run form. As I said in the PM, they are nice and robust and run very nicely. You will most likely have to bodge some sort of adapter to mount them at the correct height.

Hornby used their Maunsell coach bogies on their model, and here is very little external difference between those and the Bulleid version. It would be nice if Hornby offered their bogies as spares like Bachmann do.