Everything Hornby
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(In Topic #12567)
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Old tension lock coupler
Hi All. I have some old style Hornby Carriages, Wagons, and Locos which have the traditional tension lock couplers.But the couplers in question are built as part of either the chassis( in the case of Locos ) and as part of Bogies for Carriages. These are all very well, that is while they are in working order, that is apart from the out of scale gap between the carriages or WHY. Would some kind modeller please tell me how to cvercome this problem withoutMajor Surgery on the couplers. Kevin
Staying on the thread Kevin.
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You may be out of luck. Hackery and butchery are usually the order of the day, especially with the carriage truck mounted ones. KD 18-20 would be my choice, you however will need mounting blocks (Parkside Dundas, now Peco) and the 362 dovetails (which come with tension locks on the end, so you choose).Try Dapol who I believe supply 362 pockets. Well, they are reasonably close to 362 pockets. I believe i saw 362 pockets on Shapeways.
Stock with screw mounted tension hooks are usually a straight swap for more modern screw mounted ones. Not so wide.
Nigel
©Nigel C. Phillips
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Have you read this ?
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=8591&forum_id=156
Now for those who don't want to convert couplings and maintain tension lock, mixing the various breeds/brands is not recommended as the hooks on the large versions do not connect on the small thinner ones and depoending on curve radius,even cause derailments.
Ron
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
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Sol is spot on, it definitely is not mix and match with old and new tension locks. There is a reason why some of that old stock is cheap, changing the wheels and adding couplers is normally around another £6-£7. One of the reasons many of us went over to Kadee couplers. #18-#20 for stock that has the NEM 362 pocket (which I think you can now get on Shapeways for older stock - yes, just checked, search NEM 362 socket OO or idem HO). Or just good 'ol #5 on old stock after the tension lock has been removed (old Xuron cutters are ideal for this). Not hard, you need shims, and a KD height gauge.
I have seen many examples where the tension lock was removed from a bogie, and a strip of metal or styrene fixed to the bogie and used to attach a KD. Better to fix it to the ends of the body. Sometimes you just have to resort to under- or over-set couplers. For a rake of carriages that are not involved in being shunted get rid of the KD pin and use whatever height suits best, except for the end carriages of course.
Nigel
©Nigel C. Phillips
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Last edit: by Passed Driver
Staying on the thread Kevin.
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All the best. Kevin
Staying on the thread Kevin.
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Ron
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
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Staying on the thread Kevin.
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reg
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Staying on the thread Kevin.
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I would agree with all that has gone before here - butchery or don't mix - if you don't want to change to a KD option (which I don't).
One, rather simple option is to remove the hook from the old Hornby coupling when connecting the vehicle to a new Bachmann/Hornby style coupling. More problems seem to come on sharp curves when the two hooks clash. I only use Setrack on the hidden sections of Yarslow (36in radius everywhere else) and these curves are a nightmare for mixed couplings!! Going forward, the new system will have nothing under 24in - even in hidden sections.
Another issue arises with the old Dapol/Mainline hooks with a pronounced "hook" on the nose of the hook - if that makes sense!! The hooks seem to have very tight "C" shaped ends and they do not traverse across the "bar" of the adjacent vehicle on curves - especially when the adjacent vehicle also has a hook. [I might have to do some pictures to explain all that because it's late and I'm not sure that I know what I mean!!!]
One thing I have found, even when putting trains together of old Hornby/Dapol/Mainline hook & bar couplings - even though they are all roughly the same size, the order of the vehicles can make a difference to the safe running of the train. I have trains wholly using older couplings and have spent several running sessions getting the order right. In some cases I have reverted to removing the hook as before.
Out of interest, whatever I do, I cannot get the long wheelbased Hornby CCT to run with anything using the wierd "Hornby close coupling" devise. Its OK with a new hook/bar.
Barry
Shed dweller, Softie Southerner and Meglomaniac
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Hi Reg and Kevin,This thread seems to have concentrated on KD,s In my case i have similar problems with mixed stock ,but it would be too expensive for me to fit kadees to all my stock,( as much as i would like to) . So maybe there is advice on just changing to an appropriate tension lock coupling?
Most KD coupler additions are straightforward and cost-effective. I don't buy the argument that it's too costly when you add in the time it takes to add new tension locks to old stock. The way I look at it is that the wagon may have cost £1 new way back when, you bought it on eebuygum for £4, it's now £12-£15 new with 362 pockets and tension locks to match. And adding 2 KD #5 couplers is around $4 here, shouldn't be more than £4 in the UK. You're ahead by miles.
I have a box (large) of old and not so old tension locks from wagons, vans, carriages and locomotives that have accumulated over the years Trying to replace an old "wide as the wagon" tension lock with a more modern one is a pain and often time consuming. Almost all new stock now comes with an NEM 362 pocket. All the bits are available to add NEM 362 pockets to old stock. This gives us the choice of using tension locks with 362 prongs or KD couplers (#17-#20). NEM 362 pockets are expensive, but there is a more cost effective way I described back in 2013.See http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=11873&forum_id=62#p207023
I don't know whether the Parkside Dundas part is currently produced by Peco, hopefully yes. If not Dapol have couplers that take NEM shafted tension locks that the sell in packs of 40 - COUPNEM00. The range of OO couplers that go into NEM 362 pockets available on Shapeways should keep everybody happy (I have nothing to do with the company). "Instanters", bars for B sets, fantastic range.
Nigel
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©Nigel C. Phillips
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Staying on the thread Kevin.
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Staying on the thread Kevin.
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A cheaper alternative is to use Alan Jackson couplers http://www.mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/alex-jackson-coupling/ which can be made from bent wire with a bit of practice.
Although for fixed rakes of carriages I'd be tempted to use more scale http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Smiths_couplings_for__OO_.html
As they say any changes for any type of coupling requires surgery.
Now I've finally started a model railway…I've inherited another…
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Maybe one day I will get to complete a kit? All the best. Kevin
Last edit: by Passed Driver
Staying on the thread Kevin.
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Most of my stock Is pre NEM and I like butchering / modelling so a little extra work is not a problem..
I even will allow Southern on to my line, well it is only 7 Miles away….
Last edit: by The Q
Now I've finally started a model railway…I've inherited another…
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Staying on the thread Kevin.
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Even the simplest change (which would be the Dapol system) will involve material removal and addition (just to shim it to the correct height for the new coupler), and with carriages body removal between the buffers. There is unfortunately no easy way to do this (there is no magic kit that works with all the types of tension hook designs). Some of us like to get the surgical implements out (mine are always to hand), others don't. It's a personal choice.
Rule 1 applies. Have fun, play trains. And don't count rivets. Or buy old stock with dinosaur tension hooks that belong in the recycling or parts bin.
Nigel
Edit: All this because there is no common accepted standard for couplers in the UK, where no manufacturer has yet committed to NEM standards.
©Nigel C. Phillips
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All the best. Kevin
Staying on the thread Kevin.
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