Everything live even when using insulated joiners??

The plan Kevin is referring to is the one I posted here :

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=13081&forum_id=21#p231943

It works fine on Industry Lane… :thumbs

As I said back in post #35, if the loco is stalling (not shorting) when it reaches the point, then logically the problem is power to the rails.

Nothing to do with switching the frog, as it ain't got that far.


Ed

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

Hi Petermac                 The reason for the short piece of track was rather than risk melting a sleeper on the "Toe of the Point".As for "I R J's" I always use them on"Live Frogs". And even though Peco sell and recommend "Pre wired Rail Joiners"?? most modellersbelieve (as I do ) that it is better to solder the wire direct to the rail(even though I ignored my own belief's with the short piece of track)but I will leave it in place for now??                 all the best  Kevin

Kevin.

Don't get yourself hung up or your knickers in a twist over melting sleepers or having to solder the bus at the toe end (or heel for that matter) as what is needed is a good electrical bus connection to both the stock rails… 'anywhere' along their length…   what you're aiming for is to get electricity into a piece of metal rail, nothing else… it doesn't matter where they are on the rail… as well as the bonding which must be done with electrofrogs, you can have 2 separate (bus and switch) connections anywhere else - one at each end; both at one end; both in the middle; one at the end and one in the middle etc as long as they are good soldered joints OR you can tin and twist all 3 wires (bonding, bus and switch) together and put them in one place as I do… they've even removed some of the plastic sleeper webbing to avoid the melting problem…

The beauty of doing all three in the bonding slot is that all 3 wires go down through the board via one hole, so they're easier to hide. If you're not too happy with an iron and three lengths of wire - practice… twist three lengths of bared wire together - make the bared bit about an inch long… give them a good covering of flux (I find liquid flux best as you can dip the whole of the twisted length into it)… hold the iron to the twisted wires for a few seconds and then introduce the solder to the bit where its touching the wires and it should flow into all of the strands… remove the iron and let the joint cool down… when you've practised this a few times you'll become a master solderer. 

Now you can solder three strands together, turn your attention to the bonding position on the rails. First snip the soldered three wires you've just assembled to about half an inch long. With a glass fibre brush or small piece of emery paper rub the bottom of the rail in the bonding slot 'til it shines… then immediately put some flux on it… Put a small dab of solder on the tip of your iron and wipe it quickly and gently on the cleaned rail, which will 'tin' it… lay the three wired connection on the cleaned and tinned rail and touch it for a couple of seconds with the iron (the wire not the rail) which will cause the solder on the wires to melt at the same time as the solder on the rail… remove iron… result nice soldered connection with no melted plastic.  I find it easier to arrange my wires up through the baseboard, twist and solder them, and then solder to the point, which seems to avoid burned fingers, melted plastic etc - I would suggest it is almost impossible to obtain a satisfactory result by twisting three wires together and solder them to the point all in one go… as to do so usually ends in melted plastic or burned fingers.

EDIT: Don't forget these three wires also have to provide the bonding of stock rail to switch blade so make sure you're soldering it to the two rails, not just the outside one… two rails one side and two rails on the other side in the bonding slot.

I've looked at Gary's plan you mentioned and it is exactly as I, and others, have said (electrically speaking). If you move the red and blue wires up in the picture to where the bonding (not shown) would be - its the same.  I think the drawing was done for clarity of use.

As Ed points out, if your loco stalls at the rail connection between the two points it is 99% certain that one or both stock rails on the Y point are not getting an electrical supply… my suspect would be a bad bus connection to one or both stock rails… a circuit tester from bus direct to the stock rail would prove the circuit as 'made' or otherwise as the case may be…..

TURN EVERYTHING OFF BEFORE CIRCUIT TESTING THO' 

PS: Re the soldering pointer above: Not trying to teach my Grandma to suck eggs, just explaining how I make multi-wire joints to trackwork. Doing the three wires together like this means only one joint to solder and consequently only one to go wrong…..

Hi Mike          When there was a fault?? I changed the plan, and I was following Petermacs suggestion. Anything is better than nothing??My first lesson in soldering was in school, over Fifty Odd years Ago but that was then with an Heavy Iron, on a Gas Appliance, much different to modern irons.                        all the best  Kevin  PS I have sent an Email c/o Nigel, of my layout plan. and he will advise me.

Having read through this thread I'm glad I'm sticking to good old DC. And they always said the wiring is simpler with DCC

From what I've read, electrofrog points add annoying complexity to the wiring whether you're using DC or DCC.

Kevin, pictures would be a big help. If your computer is refusing to cooperate with scanning the images in, try either retrograding to Windows 8 or updating drivers. If that doesn't work, see if you can use a scanner at your local public library and put the pictures on a thumb drive or SD card.

If Kevin has a printer attached to his computer and it is one the multi-tasking types, that does the scanning, not the computer which is just the basis to access to printer.

Yes Insulfrog does make wiring easier for DC but relies then on blade to stock rail for electrical contact (unless one uses relays etc to do the switched bonding) but Electrofrog does make the passage of small wheel based loco like 0-4-0 less likely to stall as they have done on Insulfrogs. So to gain better running, one has to do more than just join tracks together like a toy train set.

I know what it is that does the scanning, Sol. But based on what he's said in this and his other thread, it's his computer that's the problem. Apparently, after he transitioned to Windows 10 his computer stopped interfacing with the scanner properly.

It maybe a simple thing of getting the printer drivers updated to work with W10?
Kevin, google this
windows10 and printer drivers
and read some of the results

Hi Brendan       Thank you for your reply, I have personally, made a discovery about my Laptop set up, I have got an "External Hard Drive",connected to my laptop via a P C Line USB adaptor, but, that was the problem, and it had failed:sad: causing a problem.I have since dispensed with that device:lol:. And I was able to send my diagram, via email ;-)to Nigel (B C D R ).It is now a matter of "Loading my Apps onto Firefox and dumping Chrome".    all the best  Kevin

Hi Ron           If you take a glance at my reply to Brendan,;-) all will be made clear, it was very simple indeed. all the best  Kevin

Hi Petermac.  I did the business with Firefox okay. but,that is as far as I got? I now have to transfer all the apps  to Firefox, and then "Dump Chrome " .   all the best Kevin

Hi all,

Kevin's track plan. RH turnout directly connected to the wye. Kevin tells me that all is dead on entering the wye.

Nigel

First reaction is - he hasn't said where the IRJ's or track feeds are ………………………………:???::???::???:

Without that information, we're still working in the dark ……….:roll:

Hi Kevin, in this months Model Rail magazine, March number 219 issue there is a really good article on wiring both insul and electro frog points and how to wire main lines and sidings using insulating joiners I highly recommend you have a look at it I think it will give you al the info you need.

Cheers, Pete.  

Hi Petermac. The I R J's are where they are supposed to be, on both rails of the "Electrofrog " but today,I made a discovery, because I have not fixed down the track until I have tested the circuitry, that was the problem. It was as simple as that. It is like buying a new electrical appliance, before checking the fuse.   Thank you all for your patience with me
all the best Kevin

Hi Pete.    What a silly billy, I have been, the wiring was okay from the off,
I had left the track loose until I had tested the circuitry, and the bouncy track was halting the loco , "in its tracks ". Alas I don't have a pile of Railway Magazines and I don't buy magazines that often  
   thank you for help, all the best Kevin

Kevin,it is the type of mistake we all make at times,but I bet you wont do it again for yonks,glad it is sorted for you now go test trains and enjoy,,
:thumbs:thumbs;-):cool:
Owen

Hi Owen. Well maybe? But it was something that I saw on YouTube.
It was suggested that if one glued down the track before testing the wiring one might have more trouble lifting the track, so that is what I did.
     all the best Kevin

Kevin, pin it down without glueing and this allows for corrections.