Everything live even when using insulated joiners??

Hi All                   There I am with my plank, after fiddling about with WIT?? I have my points working, But, this is about D C C.I have studied all the diagrams, troubled busy members for help and  began several threads on the subject, but I have made one almighty mess of the wiring?? I have a "Positive and a Negative for the Bus", I have used "Insulated Rail Joiners on the Frogs", and  have even modified the "Electrofrog Points" for D C C following the many plans available. Next thing was to feed the Running Rails and Points from the "Bus"(or should that be BUSS?). On my Inglenook Style puzzle I have two sets of points, the first set is "Live" okay, not sure about the second set??  but when I disconnect the D C C and test the rails, with a meter (even the Frogs are live) so much for IRJ's.Would any kind member please tell me what have I done wrong??              all the best  KevinPS That should read "Red and Black Bus"

did you disconnect your bus dropper wires to to the track ?because the bus carries the power past every thing
:thumbs;-):cool:
Owen

I think that if the frogs weren't live you would have a problem
(loco's stalling!), but it should switch polarity when the point
is changed. The insulated rail joiners are to stop a short, the
line chosen should always be the same polarity as the frog, so
hopefully you had wired the frogs through a micro-switch (or
whatever clever electrical gizmo you are using!)

Hi Owen                 Thank you for your reply,  No! I didn't, but I have been distracted. If I was to disconnect the Bus to prove a point?then I will, but the Loco that I tried was performing well up to the "First Set of Points" along the straight, it is when I reverse that set of points and proceed to the "Second Set of Points" that I get problems. That is the reason for my testing, not realising my own lack of DCC knowledge?? But I will try it again                 all the bst  Kevin

Hi Jeff          Nothing fancy like "Micro Switches" to reverse polarity. I just followed the wealth of information on YMRC pages.By wiring the "Frog Wire" to the middle contact of the slide switch as per instructions, but on thinking about it?? I might have to investigate the "Second Set of Points" the ones giving me the problem??  all the best  Kevin

Can you provide a drawing Kevin of the plan and where wiring goes? including frog switching.

Hi Ron     Thank you for your reply, If only I could supply a drawing?? My HP lap top was built with "Windows 8" and it was really good!But I succumbed to the Microsoft "Free Windows 10" advert, and Converted to 10, and now that I have done that, I am stuck.:sad:But it is a simple "Inglenook", with one red and one black bus. The Points are wired to Slide Switches following "Gary's Plan", with the "Peco" live frog wires connected to their respective middle terminals of the slide switches, the Points have been converted as per the "Peco" diagram, with one "Stock Rail" being connected to one of the remaining terminals, and the other "Stock Rail " connected to the empty terminal.                     all the best  Kevin

Kevin, try swapping over the two outer wires going to the slide switch. The centre one goes to the frog, the outside ones to each of the stock rails but it's ever so easy to get them wrong (ask me how I know)… sounds like you've got one right and one wrong… so 5 out of 10.

Re drawing lines etc in Windows 10 - try 'Paint'

Press 'Windows' button and S key at the same time.
type 'paint' in the box that appears.
a link to this app should appear. click on it and you have 'Paint'
happy drawing…..

Hi Mike            Funny you should say that?? I did that with the first set of points on the layout, but it made a mess of the "Pretty Colours"!.But I will do that . Thank you for the "Windows 10" tip I will try that and let you know how I got on,      all the best Kevin

Do you have an "All in One" printer Kevin - if so, you could draw your digaram on a piece of paper and scan it …………..

It doesn't need to be an engineering drawing - a rough pencil sketch will do …………;-)

An afterthought - when you did your "DCC alterations" to the points, you did remember to remove the tiny factory fitted wire links bridging the cut in the rails ……………:roll::roll:

I ask because I forgot to do so on one of my points, although I'd already done probably 20 others !!  It took me an age, a raging fury and tufted hair before I finally found it ……….. :cheers

Hi Petermac             Thank you for your reply, Yes my Printer is (Scan, Print and Copy) but I have Google Chrome, not YMRC friendly.And I followed the excellent advice when I converted my points. I removed the "Tiny Wires" and connected the blades to the Stock Rails, as per instructions. The fact that the other set of points does not cause a problem, Baffles me.  all the best Kevin

Maybe it's as Mike suggests - you've got your wires crossed ………………

Also as he said, it's very easily done - I'm sure we've all done it at some stage - certainly I have. ;-)

Hi Petermac.  I had already followed that advice, with the first set of points, even though it made a mess of the wiring??
And then I replaced the wiring and changed the positive for the negative wires(Marking the former Negative connection with a Positive/Plus) to ensure that I actually made the swap.  all the best Kevin

Hi All   :hi       Update. An idea came to me "In a Flash?" Being as there are two sets of points in Tandem(so to speak) could that cause a Loco to stall on the second set of points?? and if it did?? would an "Extra IRJ" do the trick?? I already have an IRJ on the Frog, but if I placed an IRJ on the adjacent rail(Being that the point has its own feed) that extra isolation might work?? please comment                                   all the best  Kevin

There should be an IRJ on both frog rails Kevin - on each point - that's 2 IRJ's per point irrrespective or what comes either before or after the point.  Every point has 2 frog rails on the "V", each of those rails should have an IRJ. :thumbs

Some more reading info
http://brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#Live
http://brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html#live

Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply, I have looked at Brian Lambert before, He is very helpful , but, hard going, diagrams are fine but not as good as real photographs , but I will persist, having Locos that stall is just taking "authenticity too far". I will report on my progress. all the best Kevin

It really would help a great deal if you could try to post a sketch of what you've done with the wiring Kevin.  Without it, we're all trying to guess at it in the dark ………………:roll::roll:

You don't have to use Chrome - there are other browsers that are free to download …………..:thumbs

Hi Kevin,

Firefox works fine with YMR.

Just a thought, do you have an insulator on both rails out of the frog? Only needs one on the frog rail. If you have another insulator at the other end of the rail and that rail does not have a dropper wire……..(we're all grasping at straws here sans wiring diagram/pictures).

These issues do not come up with Insulfrogs or dead frogs.

Nigel