...and upgrading too

Well done John,Another success.
Have fun,
I have been knurling wheel axles with gusto.Had a few loose Gibsons now they are good and solid on the axles.
Derek.

Ah yes, but how will you actually get the chassis set up without repeatedly removing the wheels?

I dug out my Guy Williams' "4mm Engine" today.  It was written in 1988 I think and it was interesting to see how things have changed.  I note he uses a compensation system with elongated frame holes and brass tube bearings.

The Portescap motor/gearbox arrangement was the bees knees for a long time, but I think they are no longer available.  I have a couple or three locos with these (second hand and needing considerable work to get them to EM) and I note that they are pretty whiny, unlike the whisper quiet mechanisms on RTR today.   I may just leave the 00 chassis alone and make new ones.

John

:)Supreme skill John in chassis building is needed with Gibsons .

I guess marking the axle/wheel setting will be vital ?.

Oh well all part of the fun.

cheers,

Derek.

I don't know how you get it in one.  Based on my bodging I'm a long way from that.  Maybe in time with more experience it'll come to me.  The main skill is probably patience to resist the urge to say "that's good enough", when you know it's not.

John

I was kind of jesting John.
No expert myself when it comes to putting these things together.
On another note,Any special design needs for Kadee couplers and loco chassis building.Thinking ahead Don't want to build a chassis and find I cannot fit them.
Cheers,
Derek.

As for Kadee, I recommend planning ahead.    For the Jinty, it has locating holes at either end.  I had to solder plates (spare spacers) onto the existing spacers to get the holes lining up - I didn't plan ahead but, in fairness the chassis was assembled two or more years ago.  I found that if I position the Kadee (#158 - medium shank) over the hole, it is just about at the right location - sprung buffers help too.  The Bachmann screws are too short but 10BA (I think) is right for the thread.  This way I can mount the Kadee in such a way that the body can be removed.  I think I will glue some plastic strip to the sides of the draft GB to prevent rotation.

I reviewed Tony Wright's DVD this morning to see how he does his pickups.  Quite simple really and using his method got my pickups working.  The loco works under it's own power which is good and feels fairly smooth.  I'm still not happy though because every so often, the rear, driven, axle locks up.  I'm thinking that the center bearings are oversize and that the coupling holes might also be oversize and too sloppy.  So, back to the bench.

I'm almost ready to totally disassemble the chassis and reassemble using lessons I've learned - not quite yet though.

John

Something that just impinged on my consciousness is that, when I was testing the chassis on C&L track (changing the center bearings made a big improvement), the flanges felt like they were riding on the chairs.  Hadn't noticed that before. This doesn't happen on my other test track which must have SMP track.   

I measured the wheels and flange depth comes out at ~1mm.  I measured a couple of other, newer wheels, and the flange depth was ~0.5mm.  Looks like I have some oldie wheels and will have to reduce the flanges.   Not a big deal - just mount the wheel on an axle, put it into my Dremel and run the flange against a file.  Concentricity doesn't matter.  It is a durned nuisance because I have to remove the rods.

John

Thanks for the Kadee input info John.
C&L chairs are more pronounced than SMP. Sorry that the old wheelset started hopping on them.Seems its all finer scale these days,Noticed that things need to be a lot tighter on turnouts to avoid wheel dropping at least in 00.Or resort to packing the gap a little ?.OO BB gauges are another minefield.Anything between 14.5 to 14.83 depending on supplier and wheel profiles.
Cheers,
Derek.

Happy to help Derek.

It's good that I discovered the discrepancy with flange depth now - easy to fix on this and other locos.

Yes, for 00, you do need to be careful.  00 coarse should be 14.5mm (for use with Peco points) and 00 fine should be 14.8mm. : http://www.doubleogauge.com/index.htm  The "standards" is useful.

John

Derek

As you have a lathe, this may be of interest for quatering

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1672/entry-14896-snitzl-works-introduction-and-wheel-quartering-jigs/

or

Highly recommended in other forums

GW Models
(George Watts)
11 Croshaw Close
Lancing
West Sussex
BN15 9LE
tel: 01903 767 231
jigs, rolling bars, rivetting tool, wheel-quartering tool

Unfortunatly no web address.

Paul

I have the GW Models Wheel press and quartering jig.  It seems designed for Gibson wheels (probably Ultrascale too) and doesn't work all that well on Bachmann.  There's a wheel puller too - very handy for Gibson wheels.  To avoid distortion, best to make a brass plate for the back of the wheel.

I had to actually write a letter requesting a quote incl postage and put in an actual mailbox. :shock:  I got a reply a couple of weeks after that and then sent payment (bank money order).  It all had a 50s feel to it.:roll:  I only go through this rigmarole for things I really want and can't get any other way.

John

Many thanks John,That looks a good lathe project.
Yes its odd these days useing a mail box and handwriting notes.
Cheers,
Derek.

I turned down the wheel flanges this morning, no big deal.  I made them so they cleared the C&L chairs.  The center coupling rod holes seemed to me to be pretty big, so I soldered in some brass rod and redrilled.

There's probably a lesson here:  don't trust work that you did 2 years ago.  I checked, or thought I did, the squareness a couple of days ago and it looked OK then, but that was before I changed the bearings.  As I checked it again this morning, I noticed that the chassis isn't square :twisted:

So, right, I stripped it down to its' bare bones and started again.

Now, a few years ago I convinced the family to get me an Avonside jig:

https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=2342&category_id=127&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9

So, I thought I'd use that to make darn sure things are square this time.

First I filled the coupling holes with 188 solder and redrilled.  These were reamed until they just fit on the jig pins.




These are the short pins.  The pins are on stretchers that can be adjusted by knobs on the side.  The pin spacing is set to the coupling rod holes.  The screws on the edge are then tightened.  Both sets of rods are checked.  I found it necessary to touch the iron to the solder in a couple of the holes to center them on the pins.

I now have two sets of rods with identical hole spacings.

Next, I confirmed that the chassis bearings were correct:




Happily, these are OK.  I checked both frames.

John

Next phase is to join the frames.  First, solder on the spacers to one frame.  Then remove the short pins from the jig and install long ones.  Place the frame without spacers on the pins.  Install the fence and align it to the frame and marks on the side of the jig so it is square.  In this case there are hornblocks so a bit tricky.

Then place the other frame on the pins and solder the spacers in place:




Now, all being well, the chassis will be square.  I'll find out when I get the wheels on.

John

Still watching, John.

That jig is a beauty.  :thumbs

I do envy you that jig John,I have looked at them on the web.
Looks like an investment in 2015 is on the cards.
They are not cheap but quality never is.
regards,
Derek.

Well, guys, the jig is a bit of overkill, as others have said.  I do anticipate having to build, or rebuild, quite a lot of chassis' so it should be worth having.  You can, of course, set up a chassis using simpler and much cheaper tools.

Like this: 



Thinking back, it's no wonder I had to make such large holes in the rods and why the chassis didn't seem happy with the gearbox installed.

John

Hmm,No offence meant John,Compared to the super jig its a bit like an old Austin 7 going up against a Rolls Royce.
Still I bet you had fun all the same.
I was browsing Eileens metal stocks some usefull stuff there.2015 is going to be a busy year.
You mentioned a basement quite a rare thing in houses over here normally the loft for bigger layouts unless you are single and can let rip.
cheers,
Derek.

You're right about the jig.  I built it after a similar design by Iain Rice in his chassis book.  I did make it work and you can perhaps see that the hardboard surface (scribed with perpendicular lines) has suffered from the effects of phosphoric acid.

I think it's worthwhile getting an understanding of the first principles.

Eileen's is a great place - some lovely kits from Bill Bedford too.

I am single so I can do whatever the h*ll I want.

John

Over the last couple of days I've tested the chassis and GB and things seem to be much better now.  The motor/gearbox is steady under power (before it shimmied from side to side) and it seems to want to run slowly - it'll never be a racehorse, having an 80:1 GB.

Yesterday, I painted the chassis and to day I installed brakes.  I gave it another run to make sure I hadn't mucked anything up.

The wheels shouldn't need removing anymore so I used threadlocker Loctite to secure the wheel nuts - I find it impossible to torque them so they'll stay put.

I just glued some copper clad underneath for the wipers.

John