Build quality (or lack of).

Aye, both locos had plastic worm gears and drive cogs. The latest one is their special edition, "The last Single Wheeler". There was no room for a decoder, at least not for the ones I have.

The idea of a rolling road sounds good!

I am obviously missing something:???:!

 If a loco arrives as a DC loco, why does it need to be run in on DC first?

 When I buy new loco I have the shop test it just to make sure it works.  If shop can't/won't test I don't buy.

 I  fit decoder and then run it in.

 BTW, if you want to run DC loco on DCC layout using DC voltage to track turn DC mode off in all DCC equipped locos and they won't move when DC is used. Saves removing all DCC locos from layout.

 Turning DC mode off in all decoders will also help stop any miscreant signals/glitches causing  decoders to run amok. Does not often happen but the chance is always there.

CV29 bit 2 turns DC mode on/off.

 With Lenz system go into CV29 and turn #2 at bottom of screen off.

 Other DCC systems deduct 4 from total value in CV29.

  Cheers

  Ian

Now that's something I didn't know Ian …………:oops::oops:

I thought you had to remove DCC stuff before you could switch on the DC supply …………..or maybe it's the other way round ……:???::???:

If you shut off the DC switch in CV29, you can run either/or (obviously with the right controller !)…..?? :hmm

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Now that's something I didn't know Ian …………:oops::oops:

I thought you had to remove DCC stuff before you could switch on the DC supply …………..or maybe it's the other way round ……:???::???:

If you shut off the DC switch in CV29, you can run either/or (obviously with the right controller !)…..?? :hmm

If bit 2 in CV29 is on loco can be run with either DCC or DC. Not both at same time obviously.

 If op on DC the loco will take a little extra throttle to start as the decoder soaks up aprox 1-1.5 volts to wake it up.

 If bit 2 in CV29 is turned off the loco can only be operated with DCC.

 To op in DC bit 2 has to be turned on again.

AS I said in previous post, when op in DCC it is recommended to turn DC mode off.

 It is the first thing I do when programing a new decoder

 Cheers

 Ian

Hmm, I am building a few points, Testing them, wagons and coaches rolled through them without any problems, Bachman wagons and even old Airfix suburban coaches.
Put a new Hornby Jinty on the track, crash on every point.
Checked BB, wheels were set at 14.05 mm No wonder there are problems. Looks like a job for the workshop. Very poor factory workmanship in my opinion.
Unless Hornby are bringing in a new gauge of track?

Resurrecting an old thread here, but at least it's one of mine! :)

I got my "Last of the Single Wheelers" loco back from Hornby in good time, duly repaired with replacement (plastic) worm gear and drive cog. I only used it a couple of times but its performance was satisfactory.

Skip forwards a couple of years, my how time flies!

Anyway, I've had a resurgence of interest in building a layout again lately and put my single wheeler back on my test track. After a few circuits I got the dreaded ZZZZZZZ's noise as it ground to a halt after stripping out the drive gears again!

I've ordered a nice Bachmann loco…

You can all expect a new build thread to start when I've screwed my boards together, I bet you can't wait! :D

[user=1427]allan downes[/user] wrote:

I think that Bachmann build for two markets - us in the UK where only we use the locos and rolling stock that we did or do, and the USA where there is a far wider demand not just for the products, but also the quality.

 Here in the UK you have just a hand full of manufacturers plying for our custom, whereas in America manufacturers are coming out of the woodwork and what they don't cater for, the Japanese will, so Bachmann have to be on their toes and it's much like their O30 Spectrum range where David at Tower Models, the largest importer, once told me that he only gets it on an 'if and when' basis while it's flooding the USA market no sooner than the paint has dried!

So, who gets the best deal, us who buy by the hundreds, or those that buy by the thousands? and when did you last see a  Japanese brass built Pannier tank, or a plastic built Jinty?

Anyway, Hornby are now made in China so what do they know about Ashburton!!!!

Allan.

Bachmann Trains (as they are known over here) have the reputation of being at the low end of the model train hierarchy ("Toy Train"). Only recently have they started to introduce more expensive models with decent detailing, and prices to match. Having said that, their mechanisms, including split chassis designs, are generally reliable, just not up to the likes of Kato (or even Atlas and Athearn). Helical gears are now common, much quieter.

Plastic gears should not be plastic, they should be Delrin (acetal - a low friction thermoplastic with dimensional stability). If Hornby is using polyethylene or similar they won't last very long. Bad Hornby gears seem to be down to a soft plastic, doesn't say too much about QC in China.

It's also assumed that the buyer is a) going to open the locomotive, and b) install a decoder. Plus often add all sort of details (handrails, window shades, winterization hatches) included in the box. None of which voids the warranty.

nigel

[user=477]shunter1[/user] wrote:

Hmm, I am building a few points, Testing them, wagons and coaches rolled through them without any problems, Bachman wagons and even old Airfix suburban coaches.
Put a new Hornby Jinty on the track, crash on every point.
Checked BB, wheels were set at 14.05 mm No wonder there are problems. Looks like a job for the workshop. Very poor factory workmanship in my opinion.
Unless Hornby are bringing in a new gauge of track?

I once asked Hornby what their gauge tolerance was for my GWR Castles, China made (2 Railroad, 1 Waterman edition), that were fouling some hand-built turnouts made by Brossard (John). 13.5-14.5 mm was the reply. I checked the 3 that I had - a mean of 13.2 mm was more like it. I then checked an old Hornby Saint, Margate made. 13.2 mm. Definitely narrow gauge. All my Bachmanns were 14.4-14.5 mm.

The wheels can be moved out on the axles - 0.5 mm each side. I used a calibrated gear puller in situ to preserve the quartering. That however meant some adjustment to the narrow gauge pistons (undersized by nearly 1 mm width each side to accommodate the narrow gauge). Bottom line - check the gauging before pulling the turnouts apart. I'll see if I can find the write-up. It may be here.

Nigel

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

[user=1427]allan downes[/user] wrote:

I think that Bachmann build for two markets - us in the UK where only we use the locos and rolling stock that we did or do, and the USA where there is a far wider demand not just for the products, but also the quality.

 Here in the UK you have just a hand full of manufacturers plying for our custom, whereas in America manufacturers are coming out of the woodwork and what they don't cater for, the Japanese will, so Bachmann have to be on their toes and it's much like their O30 Spectrum range where David at Tower Models, the largest importer, once told me that he only gets it on an 'if and when' basis while it's flooding the USA market no sooner than the paint has dried!

So, who gets the best deal, us who buy by the hundreds, or those that buy by the thousands? and when did you last see a  Japanese brass built Pannier tank, or a plastic built Jinty?

Anyway, Hornby are now made in China so what do they know about Ashburton!!!!

Allan.

Bachmann Trains (as they are known over here) have the reputation of being at the low end of the model train hierarchy ("Toy Train"). Only recently have they started to introduce more expensive models with decent detailing, and prices to match. Having said that, their mechanisms, including split chassis designs, are generally reliable, just not up to the likes of Kato (or even Atlas and Athearn). Helical gears are now common, much quieter.

Plastic gears should not be plastic, they should be Delrin (acetal - a low friction thermoplastic with dimensional stability). If Hornby is using polyethylene or similar they won't last very long. Bad Hornby gears seem to be down to a soft plastic, doesn't say too much about QC in China.

It's also assumed that the buyer is a) going to open the locomotive, and b) install a decoder. Plus often add all sort of details (handrails, window shades, winterization hatches) included in the box. None of which voids the warranty.

nigel

Checked the chemistry, if the mix of polymers used in making acetal is wrong or the additives are wrong it's soft not hard, susceptible to acid corrosion (in oil) and gears will strip and axles will split (a Bachmann Europe problem). A QC problem, which is a QA responsibility. Which is Head Office, not China.

Some comments on Alan's comments:

UK - Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol, Heljan. USA - Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann, BLI, Bowser, Intermountain, Kato, Mantua, Model Power, MTH, Rapido (Canadian), Rivarossi (Hornby), Walthers. Several of whom do basic, intermediate and high-end models.

The economics of the business are such that a $350 locomotive needs sales of 500+. Hence the use of old tooling on both sides of the Atlantic.

The issue is not so much the market size (which per capita is greater in the UK than in North America), it's the nature of modeling in the UK. 4mm scale means an isolated market controlled by relatively few manufacturers. Plus a few other issues such as a captive modeling press that will not tell it as it is for fear of losing advertising, and lots of diversity, especially in steam, which means different 4-6-0 tolling for the GWR, LMS, LNER and SR. A GP-7 from EMD just needs a slightly different paint job for the different railway companies, and perhaps a tweak of the tooling. Diesels dominate, steam is another story, with relatively very few choices unless it's brass (and a $2500+ price). Steam ended on the passenger side in the 1940's and 1950's, and the passenger business was gone from the railway companies by the 1970's. There are really only 2 national passenger companies now in North America,  AMTRAK in the US and Via Rail in Canada (forget Mexico, that ended in 2000), so the  diversity has been for many years in the freight side.

It's also expected that modelers will do some work on the locomotive (install details, install a decoder, do a custom paint job on an unpainted version) or carriage (install lights, passengers, number decals), or couplers (change to Kadee's) rather than run it straight out of the box. The manufacturers design so this is an easy job. As an example, Walthers latest coaches have the lighting circuit and wheel pick-ups in place, come with lighting, and the roof comes off so passengers can be installed. And working diaphragms. No messing around with bits of plastic or old credit cards to get the body off.

Nigel

Well, after a dose of "Peters Spares". I armed myself with a new motor and main drive wheel with the intention of replacing them.

When I came to remove the motor I discovered it to be clamped to the chassis with a long Z shaped piece of metal, secured at one end by two, feeble, dome headed screws. Just pressing on this bracket with my fingers was enough for the drive to engage and lock. A couple of small washers under the screws was enough to create sufficient tension between the motor worm and the drive cog.

Result! :) However, I've learned not to assume the cause of a fault before inspection as I'd have saved a few quid and that Hornby's build quality problems go beyond just inferior plastics!