[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

You are right, John.  Thanks.  Block 2 was highlighted but had no orange border.  I'm not sure if that was the problem, but I've deleted it.  I don't want to mess with it before the NMRA guys get here, but I'll certainly have another go at setting up the VC tonight.

It might have been throwing the Engine Off command out of whack as well.  That's the Block where Schedule 8 ends, so it's possible.  Everything's possible with TC.   

I'm going to have a go at making a movie of it tonight after the meeting.  I'll post the link once I've uploaded it to YouTube.

Did you get your double slips wrangled?

You have a lot of Blocks without Stop Markers……..check Dr Railroad……….I think this may cause some problems…….it really is a good idea to create stop markers at the same time as you create the block

Hope your meeting went well

Double slip……………hmm I thought I had it sorted but I have either got a faulty solenoid (which will teach me not to try and save money) or a loose connection…….and the problem now is accessing the motor………grrrrrr

I envy you working with TC

 

Hi John.  Every Block has a Contact Indicator.  That seems to satisfy Dr Railroad.  I get no error messages.

The meeting starts in about an hour and a half.  I was just cleaning the tracks and broke a wire on the yard light which is over the speed detector LED, so I'm out with the soldering iron.

TC will be my "Show and Tell."  I'm hoping for a good run.  :roll:

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Hi John.  Every Block has a Contact Indicator.  That seems to satisfy Dr Railroad.  I get no error messages.

 

But they should have a stop marker as well…….believe me. I got the Dr Railroad Error messages from your file…….maybe Juergen only translates from German to Canadian (but not Australian….Strine?)

Good luck with the Show and Tell

I'll have another look, John.

OK  So, Messages is clear, but when I click on Dr Railroad there they are.  Go figure.

So, I put Brake Markers in the unmarked Blocks and ran the programme.  All of the speeds were wrong, and the whole programme had been thrown completely out.  Anyhow, I looked in Dr Railroad and the Brake Markers messages were gone. 

No good like that, so I took the Brake Markers out again.  Now it ran worse.  I looked and some of the Blocks have lost their CM icons and the loco is now stopping in the wrong places.

Now I have to try to put them back.  I should have made the movie before I started messing with it as it ran fine this afternoon.  At least the camera will be charged up when I finally get it all back into shape.

Maybe I'll have a TV night while I cool down.

That wasn't too bad.  No TV 'coz the grand kids are here.  I'm pleased I remembered how to put contacts in.

Anyway, It's all back running again.  The engine still won't shut down and the Brake Markers in Block 10 don't work, but it's good enough to make the movie.

Now, just have to wait until the grand kids go home to get some quiet time for recording.  :twisted:

 

In the meantime, I'm intrigued as to how I could put Brake/Stop Markers into a Block if I don't want anything to stop there.  Also why putting Brake/Stop Markers in throws the whole programme off the rails, so to speak.

The Manual isn't helpful.

In the Track Plan called Shunt Puzzle, there were Blocks without Brake Markers, the same as this one, and the engine shut down at the end of the sequence.  It's all very puzzling.  :shock:

B&S markers in a block are only active as far as i am aware on the following ops:

It's a stopping block and you want a train to stop there (don't forget you can allocate B&S markers to be active for certain schedules only).

It's where trains stop should the route ahead be occupied

They obey a signal

If none of the above apply and there are probably 2000 others, the train will just sail through and ignore them.

 I am thinking i am right in saying if B&S markers are not allocated to a schedule, then all trains that are required to stop in the block will use the same set but only when required to stop.

Pete I think that is a fairly accurate summary. However Dr Railroad obviously thinks the absence of markers is sufficiently significant to report it. As a general rule I always try and limit the number of messages there. I believe I have read a reply from Juergen in the RR&Co Forum that implied that markers should be in every block.

If you run a short schedule and activate Messages Details and then you can go through line by line you will see that the programme checks every block and meticulously de activates any stop marker where the train is not required to stop. I assumed the programme is set up to check all the markers in the next block against signals and conditions……..the absence of a marker that it expected to find…..albeit in order to deactivate…….may well effect the logic of the programme.

Max, I am really sorry if my suggestion messed things up and I have no idea why the insertion of stop markers should cause you to lose contact indicators……………you may want to check with the Inspector and Explorer in case they got hidden and then duplicated

Kind Regards

No John i agree, i never leave a block with out B&S markers whether i intend to use them or not, i think i was trying to tell Max to bung them in as TC will ignore them unless you tell it something different as per the example criteria.

I found the value of using them in a through block, it helps prevent engines stopping on points due to occupied routes ahead.

I have after a year,:oops:  found out what the good Dr is on about when it says "call for details command for further information" clicking the details tab is enlightening most of the time and certainly gives you the right direction to go to.

I think I need to glean some more information about the Brake and Stop Markers.  What I did was to insert gratuitous Brake markers in every Block which didn't have one.  I assigned no distances, nor did I assign any Schedules to them.

This had two results.  Firstly, it changed the speed of the blocks to the lowest speed setting of any other block in the Track Plan (10 km/h).  Secondly, as the loco entered the Block with the new Stop Marker, it paused and then moved off again.  This radically affected the time the loco was taking to traverse the Block and had the effect of making the loco stop well short of the Brake Marker in the end blocks.  Chaos resulted.  :shock:

I am keen to make a movie of my progress so far, so I went through and removed the gratuitous Brake Markers in an effort to return to the status quo.  Somehow I managed to delete the Contact Indicators.  It actually wasn't a bad thing, as it refreshed me on how to add in Contact Indicators.

On the question of Doctor Railroad . . . I have been clicking on the Messages tab on the tool bar and only getting three messages that all was well.  To see the real messages, it's necessary to further click on the Dr Railroad icon.  Then they are revealed.  There are also a series of messages complaining about the size of the images of the boxcars.  You would think that it is important - enough to be raised.  I am tempted to start another Track Plan without using the Train Animator, to see if that fixes my other issues. 

No need to apologise, John.  It's important to fearlessly raise suggestions here otherwise we don't learn as much as we otherwise would.  It's hard to communicate accurately here sometimes - even with the use of emoticons.  Sol will tell you that I have an unusal sense of humour - particularly if we're not in the same room.  If I was upset I would use a PM.

I have also had an impressive lack of success with Train Control.  It always comes up blank.  Another example of how detailed the instructions need to be for me to assimilate them. 

The NMRA guys were particularly impressed with TC; notwithstanding the engine not turning off in Schedule 8.  Naturally I paid tribute to the work of your good selves and took almost no credit myself.  Unassuming as ever.   

Hi Max

Sorry it took a while for me to respond

I think I have covered most things in your new thread but for greater certainty:

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

I think I need to glean some more information about the Brake and Stop Markers.  What I did was to insert gratuitous Brake markers in every Block which didn't have one.  I assigned no distances, nor did I assign any Schedules to them.

This had two results.  Firstly, it changed the speed of the blocks to the lowest speed setting of any other block in the Track Plan (10 km/h).  Secondly, as the loco entered the Block with the new Stop Marker, it paused and then moved off again.  This radically affected the time the loco was taking to traverse the Block and had the effect of making the loco stop well short of the Brake Marker in the end blocks.  Chaos resulted.  :shock:

 

I read this and shouted Eureka……… add a stop distance and all will be well ……I guarantee it

I am keen to make a movie of my progress so far, so I went through and removed the gratuitous Brake Markers in an effort to return to the status quo.  Somehow I managed to delete the Contact Indicators.  It actually wasn't a bad thing, as it refreshed me on how to add in Contact Indicators.

I wonder if you actually deleted the contact indicators…….or just the icon in the block? Check Dr Railroad and Explorer in case you have duplcates

On the question of Doctor Railroad . . . I have been clicking on the Messages tab on the tool bar and only getting threemessages that all was well.  To see the real messages, it's necessary to further click on the Dr Railroad icon. 

That is classic example of how ambiguos Juergen can be. It took me forever to realise that Dr Railroad and Messages are two totally separated almost unrelated functions

Dr Railroad covers data entry anomalies in the database

Messages covers the working of the system with pretty basic statements…..It fired up…..Schedule 1 started etc………………….the key thing here is to click on details……where the detail is mind numbing……..it takes a while to sift through but usualy you can spot the error

There are also a series of messages complaining about the size of the images of the boxcars.  You would think that it is important - enough to be raised.  I am tempted to start another Track Plan without using the Train Animator, to see if that fixes my other issues. 

I think this is just related to display…..I do not believe it affects operations……but why not just resize the images to satisfy the Doctor?

No need to apologise, John.  It's important to fearlessly raise suggestions here otherwise we don't learn as much as we otherwise would.  It's hard to communicate accurately here sometimes - even with the use of emoticons.  Sol will tell you that I have an unusal sense of humour - particularly if we're not in the same room.  If I was upset I would use a PM.

Thanks Max I appreciated that…….I know I tend to have a somewhat dry and pedantic style and I am told that I sometimes lack patience……….but I abhor email conflict

You will note I have fearlessly commented on your stop marker thread

I have also had an impressive lack of success with Train Control.  It always comes up blank.  Another example of how detailed the instructions need to be for me to assimilate them. 

I think Pete has covered this…………it is a very useful tool although I had TC over a year before I discovered Traffic Control:oops:

The NMRA guys were particularly impressed with TC; notwithstanding the engine not turning off in Schedule 8.  Naturally I paid tribute to the work of your good selves and took almost no credit myself.  Unassuming as ever.   

Of course!

 

 

 

Thanks, John.  One of the things I am always telling the blokes (and women), at our Club is not to set deadlines.  The need to have the Track Plan working for the NMRA visit put on considerable pressure.  I felt obliged to bodge things up just to get it ready in time.

I really should listen to my own advice.

I'm going to work quietly through the problems from now on.  I really can't move forward until I have resloved the issue of the loco running on in Block 10 - see other thread.  The motor not turning off in Schedule 8 can wait as it's just an annoyance for now.

Concerning the images, the TrainAnimator claims to resize the images automatically.  I'll have a look in the Explorer to see if there is anything helpful in there.

Plenty to do then.  :thumbs

OK Men.  I have added Brake/Stop Markers to every free block.  The upshot is that everything works OK except Block 4 Stop Marker needs to be moved, and - the loco runs on in Block 10 on Schedule 7.  The VC sub-block is staying white, so clearly it still isn't being triggered.

What am I missing - beside synapses?

Max  -double check your distance set for the virtual contact - you have it set at 708.7 inches -

See.  I knew it would be something simple.  It's set at 1800 cm instead of 1800 mm.  I'll try 180 cm instead.  Thanks, Dave.  :thumbs

A new error - well spotted Dave, but the loco still runs on in Block 10.  Thanks anyway.  Back to the drawing board.   

Do you want me to bring that piece of string next weekend so you can use that instead?

Fortunately I'm not taking this to the exhibition, Sol.  Bring the string anyway.   I might need to top myself, yet. 


Now.  I've worked my way into the 19 messages or log, in Dr Railroad.  The explanation for the Brake and Stop Markers not being activated is that Schedule 7 isn't listed as a permitted Schedule.  I've checked back and clearly, it is listed.

I've checked with the other Blocks and the set up is identical.  I've run out of ideas - again.  :oops:

I dont think you can use a virtual contact on a schedule that only has two blocks

See if you can find a flaw in this logic

 

The engine wont stop in Block 10 because the stop marker is not activated

The stop marker is activated by the virtual contact

The virtual contact is activated by a TC  time and distance calculation

This calculation starts immediately the reference contact indicator in Block 12 is passed (activated).    

But schedule 7 is only a two block schedule.

The contact is already activated when the schedule starts and therefore TC has no comprehension of the time element

 

I know this will not work for the shunting puzzle but humour me by starting Schedule 7 in Block 5 and make Block 12 an intermediate block……………..I am pretty confident the loco wiill now stop in Block 10

PS I have just seen your most recent email I will check why the schedule is "not permitted"

 

Two things while I'm waiting, John.

Did you get my PM?

Schedule 7 has to start in Block 12 because that's where the loco stopped from Schedule 6.  I can see your point about the timer, but are you suggesting that I write Schedule 7 from Block 5, even though the loco is assigned to Block 12?