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gdaysydney
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Those of you familiar with "Not North Road" will recall that a few months ago I made the big call to demolish the layout and start a new one in what was my son's bedroom which became vacant after he married and left home.

Its taken me a while to clear the remains of his belongings out into the garage and redecorate.  That done this weekend I started on the layout.

I haven't  drawn a plan - its all in my head !  The layout will consist of two levels with a fiddle yard on the straight section in the photo.

I have started the demolition of Not North Road to cannibalise the points for the fiddle yard - I'm trying not to think too much about all the hours spent on the old layout - especially all the wiring !!:cry:



Last edited on Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 01:27 pm by gdaysydney

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The " Axe " strikes again.

We will all be keeping an eye on this one.

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I didn't feel a thing Dave ....................:roll::roll:

What will be different about "Notmutley" ?

What I mean is, what changes will you make as a result of your experiences with "Not North Road" ?  It may help others to avoid those problems before they do all that wiring ................................

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Peter,

A very good question. 

my learning experiences in no particular order

-  there were parts of the layout I could not reach !!  ( original plan was to have scenery in these areas )
-  too much track especially in areas where I had originally planned to have just scenery
-  station area poorly designed ( in the new layout it will be a through station rather than a terminus)
-  but main problem was that the layout just grew from a few ideas and wasn't thought through*
-  plus the design really didn't allow me to make the most out of RR&Co's computer control
- it lacked a fiddle yard although the plan was to have a fiddle yard incorporated within the layout but that failed
- construction will be a bit different - rather than the flat board approach some of the layout will need to be built using elevated track approach.
-  work out were the point motors are needed and design the frame so that there are no timber supports in critical track areas:oops:

The new "train room" is 4.9m by  3m minus the bit in the corner where there is a  .7m by 1m intrusion.  The plan is to build the fiddle yard on the long side of the room (so that I can run some prototypical length trains ) and have the town scene and platforms  directly above.  My idea is that a train would have to make two circuits of the room from the time it left the station to the time it returned.  This will allow me to program RR&Co so that from a station view perspective I can maximise the number of trains that can arrive and depart at regular intervals before they start reappearing.

The remaining three sides will be "countryside"  and will have to accommodate the transition track between levels in both directions ( haven't fully worked out how this will work yet )

"Notmutley" will be the first time I have built a layout that will go around the room - this will present a challenge as I will need to work out the best way to gain access form the doorway.   So a number of challenges:roll:.



* I am not good at planning on paper - so this layout is unlikely to have a plan other than in my head but this time I have given it more thought rather than starting with a flat board and immediately laying track

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Sounds like a good plan, Dave.

Have you thought about Anyrail?  Once you load the component brand, it's really helpful.

It tells you how to make the best use of your lengths of track and won't let you get your curves and transitions wrong.

It's got some nice graphics as well.

Just a thought.

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Very drastic Dave, I'm still putting mine back together. It's he same deign I just made it more resilient for running TC.

The wiring hold now be bomb proof with no mysterious losses of detection.

Hope you get up and running soon.

gdaysydney
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MaxSouthOz wrote: Sounds like a good plan, Dave.

Have you thought about Anyrail?  Once you load the component brand, it's really helpful.

It tells you how to make the best use of your lengths of track and won't let you get your curves and transitions wrong.

It's got some nice graphics as well.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the recommendation Max
Downloaded Anyrail and paid for the license  - this is my 3rd attempt !  Extremely rough - no detail - just  the aim of seeing what inclines I am going to need to achieve a space big enough to handle the lower fiddle yard - 
one problem I have identified is that if I use  Tortoise point motors on the top (Station) level I will have to make even more room which will mean steeper inclines - I was hoping to keep make them a maximum of 3% :cry:

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Good work, Dave.  :thumbs

Do I see crossovers?   :shock:

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I think they're on different levels Max .................. I hope so !!!!

I think I ought to give Anyrail some money soon ..............  I've used their "trial 50 pieces" several times to get an idea of how it works but there are still some elements I struggle with.  It seems both you and Dave have cracked it .............:roll::roll:


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Dave, if you use Cobalt in lieu of Tortoise, they don't take as much vertical room.

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Unless you turn the tortles on their side.

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Petermac wrote: I think they're on different levels Max .................. I hope so !!!!

I think I ought to give Anyrail some money soon ..............  I've used their "trial 50 pieces" several times to get an idea of how it works but there are still some elements I struggle with.  It seems both you and Dave have cracked it .............:roll::roll:



You are right Pete they will be on different levels -    my Anyrails skills are not up to speed by any stretch of the imagination... I always get torn between the "doing" and the "planning"  hence my  rather "slap dash " effort

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Hi Dave

Good job you posted the reminder in Not North Road otherwise I would never have found you!

I am afraid this is rather negative but I dont believe the boards are made yet?

From an RR&Co perspective the key element I would do differently is the organisation of the entrance/exit to the station and fiddle yard to avoid potential bottlenecks (Pete Wogga and Brian PR1 have had the same experience) the ability to run a lot of trains at once which RR&Co can do perfectly well can be limited by choke points so I have to do a lot of workarounds which could have been avoided if I had known a bit more about RR&co when I started

You can never have too big a fiddle yard (unless it is at a lower level and you cant access the far tracks)  and you need to be able to see and access the fiddle yard to check that the stop and brake markers are correctly positioned

As you know Granby IIIs fiddle yard is at layout level but concealed by low profile terraced housing......when I am testing RR&Co schedules these housing modules have to be temporarily removed........knowing what I know now I think I would have done it differently......certainly more space between the tracks.....more flexible movement between the tracks and easy access at all times.

The generally accepted grade ratio is 1:40 (1:30 in extremis) and that doesnt take into account curves. 3% is pretty close to max.........how much clearance are you working on? 4" is not really enough and that means a 10' gradient

 I am afraid I have to say that, if at all possible, one should avoid lower level fiddle yards

I do hope hope you dont see these remarks as totally negative......they are based on my own sad experiences

Kind Regards

 

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Thanks John for the comments all of which are taken positively.:thumbs

I am currently building the supporting frames around the room so no boards or track have been laid as yet so your comments and suggestions are timely.

Based on your comments I will work on a revised plan that has the fiddle yard on the top level - this will leave me plenty of room on the lower level including a length for RR&Co speed profiling.


You mention bottlenecks at the throat of the station - this time I am planning on a through station rather than the terminus I had before -  I'll post a RR&Co  layout of the station before I commence the build so that you can give be the benefit of the collective wisdom
:cheers

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John - first draft of Station layout based on your comments

gdaysydney
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Sol wrote: Dave, if you use Cobalt in lieu of Tortoise, they don't take as much vertical room.
Hi Sol,  sorry I missed your post.

Thanks for the recommendation - my problem is that I have 18 Tortoise(s)  which I was hoping to use rather than buying new kit - that said  would you say the Cobalts  would take up half the room of a Tortoise?

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Unless you turn the tortles on their side.

I have seen this done somewhere - I'm guessing you need to purchase adapters ..

Which reminds me can you buy spare wires for the Tortoise? or will any piano wire do the job?

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Hi Dave

I replaced all of the wires on mine with 1/16" piano wire.

You don't need adaptors to turn them on their side.

It actually enhances their operation by giving them greater leverage.

I'll dig out the photos.






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Thanks Max - how did you attach them ? is there a way of doing it so that in need you can easily remove them ?

Hang on - I think I can answer my own question - looking again at the photo it looks like you have made a template that the Tortoise is glued to. The template is then screwed in place - very nifty

Last edited on Tue Jun 12th, 2012 07:31 am by gdaysydney

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They're glued on with PVA, Dave.  The four holes in the board help to pre-locate them on top.  Drill 4 x 1/16" holes through the base board with the motor sitting on top with the wire through the throw bar in the turnout.

Then you can line the board up underneath quite easily.  If you need to remove them, just take the four screws out, and it will drop out.

I hope that makes sense.  :roll:

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MaxSouthOz wrote: They're glued on with PVA, Dave.  The four holes in the board help to pre-locate them on top.  Drill 4 x 1/16" holes through the base board with the motor sitting on top with the wire through the throw bar in the turnout.

Then you can line the board up underneath quite easily.  If you need to remove them, just take the four screws out, and it will drop out.

I hope that makes sense.  :roll:

Perfectly - thanks
:doublethumb

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Some progress in the past week.

To allow easy access - the frame is 16 inches wide along the far end  and around the dormer and 24 inches wide at the two sides.  The legs are recycled balustrades ( for those with keen eyesight and where wondering why the legs where shaped the way they are.)

I had placed some boards on the frame on the left hand side to work out how the lower level fiddle yard would fit - but that is now back to the drawing boards following Johns suggestions.

My other problem is how to complete the track and still have easy access from the door -  if I stick with the original idea of having two levels then a hinged solution is going to be problematic - I'm currently working on plans for a removalable section :???:








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Very impressive Dave nice bit of carpentry. It really is a great room you have there and them walls are gagging for some railway art to hang on them.

I may be a bit previous but if you are having a back scene how do you propose to mount it?

Last edited on Tue Jun 12th, 2012 10:17 pm by wogga

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wogga wrote: I may be a bit previous but if you are having a back scene how do you propose to mount it?

Hi Pete,

As I want the layout to be "freestanding" I am planning to use 4mm MDF cut to a suitable height and  attached with PVA glue  with the pine blocks at the joins for additional support.  I used this method in Not North Road ( although that had limited backscenes - see top of first picture) and it worked well - its stable yet not too secure so if you need to remove it for any reason it can be pulled out with the help of a screw driver

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gdaysydney wrote: John - first draft of Station layout based on your comments



I am so glad you were not irritated Dave......I spent forever drafting it.......I abhor pontificatation but felt obliged to alert you to the pitfalls of a low level storage yard

It might be helpful if you listed the key objectives of your new layout.......what sort of trains do you want to run and how do you want to operate them?

I am guessing you want roundy roundy passenger and goods trains to pass through the station.....no doubt stopping under RR&Co control......with the departure triggering another schedule from the storage yard.

The layout is perfect for this with no apparent bottlenecks.

 But I am also guessing, knowing your stock, that the through station will be a terminus for branch line traffic,,,,,,,autotrain shuttle or B Set which will involve a loco exchange......the line below the bay with spurs at either end is perfect for this.

I am assumng the upper mainline runs clockwise and the lower anti clockwise? If the bay is for an autotrain how will it depart......you may need another double slip to exit to the down(?) line....................on the other hand the bay may be planned for something entirely different................hence the suggestion that you set out the type of operations you want to run.

I do this all the time now.......its kind of late because the main track is already laid but the goods yard I am currently setting up is being laid out with specific RR&Co operations in mind
 
Kind Regards

gdaysydney
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Its been a few weeks since my last post. I've been busy contemplating John's recommendations and working through numerous permutations  to come up with a compromise ( funny how no matter what area you have for your layout there is not enough room for the one you've had in your mind).  In my case the problem is that to cater for an accessible fiddle yard on the lower level my inclines would need to in excess of 3% which wasn't going to work.

Thank goodness I purchased the AnyRail software before I commenced this project.  It has allowed me to test a number of solutions without all the frustration of actually building something and then finding it doesn't work.  It has enabled me to come up with a layout change that whilst a compromise should work.

The inclines on all curves will be 1% and on the straights or flexitrack they will be 2% ( and 2.5on one long length which will be hidden). This will give me 126mm clearance over the fiddle yard. 
The compromise as 126mm is not enough clearance to access the rolling stock is to  increase the lower level from 600mm in width to 800mm and run the up traffic in front of the upper level.   The clearance will be just enough to give me access to the down line fiddle yard and the added bonus is that this will give me 400mm of free space so accommodating point motors won't be such a problem - well thats the theory :roll:

One question with those more familiar with the AnyRail Software - is there a way you can calculate the height of the track other than at the end of  track components where it appears automatically?  I am using  Microsoft Excel to calculate the height of supports needed for the lengths of flexitrack as I have not yet found another way of doing it.:oops:



Last edited on Mon Jul 2nd, 2012 08:48 am by gdaysydney

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Hi Dave

I just opened mine to take a look and copped an update.  :mutley

Anyway, now that's over, I couldn't find any way of measuring the vertical interval.

It has an option for setting the gradient, but I couldn't progress that any further.


I can sympathise with you.  I have no idea what to do with my bigger shelf boards.

I want a main line along the outer edge, but that's it.

I guess I'll go and stare at it a bit more.  :shock:


Good luck with it.  :thumbs

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Re Max's post - I ended up using Microsoft Excel to calculate the heights at various distances on the inclines so that problem is solved.

Since my last post I have been :

Demolishing and cannabalising points, electronics and even timber from Not North Road



Building Max's Tortoise point motors template ( thanks Max - this will save hours of heart ach when I get to attaching the motors to the points )


and building the framework for the extended fiddle yard - a compromise following John's comments.


One drawback of the extension is that my computer table no longer fits at  the far window end - hence it is currently in "no man's   land"

Since this photo was taken I have completed the framework and am about to start on the wiring and tracklaying.  You may notice the carriage at the far end which I have been using to test for clearance on the corners - a lesson learnt form Not North Road wher I had to demolish hours of work as I had not tested for clearance for my longest rolling stock. In this case I can't demolish the side of the house so getting it right is important.

Last edited on Sun Jul 8th, 2012 07:44 am by gdaysydney

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That first shot could be my layout room Dave :roll:  I'm so pleased there are other modellers who keep their "sapce" as clean and tidy as I do. :cheers

Regarding the coach for clearances - I agree - it's a "must".  I too didn't initially use one in my previous incarnation - to my cost !!!

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Petermac wrote: That first shot could be my layout room Dave :roll:  I'm so pleased there are other modellers who keep their "sapce" as clean and tidy as I do. :cheers



SWMBO (wife Jeanne) has given me a 3 month deadline to get the old train room tidied up and free of train stuff !   Pressures definitely on :eek:

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This is looking great I will be watching with great interest keep the Posts comming

Jim

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Hi Jim,
Many thanks for your post -  progress  has slowed dramatically due to family pressures.
My commitment to have the old layout dismantled in 3 months is looking like a real challenge now.:pedal

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Good luck with the sorting. I'm am currently trying to prepare my loft so that I can start building again but my two year old likes to take a lot of my time.

Jim

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Thanks Jim,

Yesterday I put in a good 4 hours removing the electronics and wiring from the remaining second section of the layout. ( two down one to go)  SWMBO is happy so a few brownie points there.



I have made some progress on the new layout with the ramp from the far left end of the lower level to the near end of the upper level almost complete. The photo shows the view from the doorway with my own design "removable section"
 

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Turned legs?  That's a bit OTT, Dave.  :shock:

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Turned legs?  That's a bit OTT, Dave.  :shock:

:mutley:mutley:mutley

It's probably to keep SWMBO happy Max - "easier on the eye". ;-)

I'm delighted to see that all the "clutter" is tidily filed away in the same type of drawers I use Dave............:thumbs

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Turned legs?  That's a bit OTT, Dave.  :shock:

recycled balustrades Max  :mrgreen:

Last edited on Mon Aug 6th, 2012 12:48 am by gdaysydney

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Petermac wrote: MaxSouthOz wrote: Turned legs?  That's a bit OTT, Dave.  :shock:

:mutley:mutley:mutley

It's probably to keep SWMBO happy Max - "easier on the eye". ;-)

I'm delighted to see that all the "clutter" is tidily filed away in the same type of drawers I use Dave............:thumbs

Regrettably most of the "drawers" contained stuff belonging to the rest of the family that they had "hidden" under the layout.

:roll:

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Finally feels like I am making some progress - this is the lower level fiddle yard - I've used a mixture of surface mounted Peco motors and the quieter Tortoise motors which are mounted under the track.  This is the first time I have used Peco motors surface mounted - I usually mount them under the track but have used them here as they are very easy to instal and means I can position the points wherever I like and not have to worry about the timber frame.!
I used piano wire rather than the wire supplied with the Tortoise motors as I am looking for durability since thee fiddle yard will not be that easy to access once the upper level is in place.
The points (insulfrog) have all been wired so that the moving rails  are not dependent on contact ( I'm sure there is a correct name for them but it alludes me at present).
The layout will be DCC but as you may see in the picture I test everything with DC current first - a lesson I have learnt from the past where I have constructed everything before testing only to find that I have had to rip up track etc to repair a faulty connection:roll:

Next task is to salvage the "bus" cable from the old layout and recycle it.

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Dave, it looks like 3 identical photos in the post above.

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Not now Sol.

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Good work, Dave.  :thumbs

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Sol wrote: Dave, it looks like 3 identical photos in the post above.
Not sure how that happened Sol - only meant to be one - thanks for fixing Bob:thumbs

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Good work, Dave.  :thumbs

Thanks for the encouragement Max -   I don't get much time to work on the layout and some days when I walk into the room I wonder why I ever started !:shock:

Today is not one of those days:lol:  so with a bit of luck and no interruptions from the rest of the family I may have RR&Co up and running by this afternoon -   if I can remember all the programming - its a while since I had to program an LS150 or come to that set it up to operate a Tortoise  ..... now where did I see those diodes???:???:

Last edited on Sun Aug 12th, 2012 01:55 am by gdaysydney

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Successfully connected the Digital Command centre to the new layout ( read fiddle yard for now).
It turned out to be more successful than I had hoped -  not only did I get a loco running  but I thought I would try again with my Team Digital equipment that I bought a year ago to run signals and block detectors via a Loconet. 

Then I was successful in getting the signalling working but try as I might I could not get RR&Co to recognise the block detectors even though they were detecting locos.

Well given that I am starting from scratch I decided to give it another go - and this time I got the the blocD8 set up to work and given the way they are set up it will be ideal for the fiddle yard - rather than using 8 NCE separate block detectors.

Only one hitch - I bought 3 and I still have worked out how to change the accessory address!:oops:  so I can't connect the others until I have worked it out.   These are the instructions -  http://www.teamdigital1.com/resources/documents/blocd8_doc.pdf

If anyone out there has done this please let me know as I have tried numerous times yesterday without success!

The picture below shows the SIC24AD  interface unit and signalling unit ( without any signalling attached) on the left and the block detector unit on the right with one detector wired for testing.  The SIC24AD connects to a Loconet USB which is plugged into the computer.





So I now feel like I am getting somewhere - and I can play trains again :Happy

Last edited on Mon Aug 13th, 2012 04:10 am by gdaysydney

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:mutley   Enjoy the high, Dave.  Can't help with your question, but I did notice that the NCE Procab is DCC compatible command control.

So that's D C C C C C.    Excellent!  :doublethumb

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As I am building from scratch I thought some club members who are into DCC  may find it useful if I showed some of the "below the layout" stuff.

This layout will have two power zones each with their own Circuit Breaker.  Is this necessary ?  But my experience with my previous layout taught me that it was cheaper to put in purpose built circuit breakers than have decoders and or motors burn out due to a slow response to a short circuit..

So I am recycling two PSX2 circuit breakers that I have found to be excellent.

The picture above shows my second protector in situ although it is not wired up as yet.  (For the eagle eyed the wires going left to right is the recycled bus wire hence the cuts in the shielding.)

I haven't bought a loco for a while but couldn't resist the opportunity to pick up a Bachmann Class 57 Diesel with a sound  from Hattons for just a few quid more than the cost of a sound decoder !  The mail delivery problems in the UK must have been resolved as it arrived at my doorstep within a week !!

Last edited on Wed Aug 29th, 2012 12:29 pm by gdaysydney

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Excellent progress Dave:thumbs.......you must have a great sense of achievement with all this. Surface mounted point motors in the fiddle yard are a brilliant idea........I wish I had thought of it 4 years ago!

I do agree with you about circuit breakers........one of the best investments I made......solid protection and a good early warning system.

Let me know how you get on with the Computor/Monitor issue......I have similar problems

Kind Regards

 

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John Dew wrote: Excellent progress Dave:thumbs.......you must have a great sense of achievement with all this.

 

Thank you for the kind comments John,  Some days I feel like I'm getting somewhere but then I look at what I still have to do and  then I sigh :???:

On a separate issue I have now learnt that in RR&Co you can set up signals with the conditions without using flagman (something I had done with NotNorth Road) so it should make programming the signalling a lot easier/ quicker

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I saw that as well Dave.......I dont have signals but am tempted to try a couple of Dapol Semaphores so I need to do a bit of research

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Spent most of this past weekend rebuilding the removal access module - basically it didn't work which in hindsight wasn't surprising as the design meant that the track joins were on curves and no matter how I finessed it it just didn't work. !

So back to the drawing board and plan B  -

Something much simpler but it does require the door to be open when the trains are running as it needs the additional space to manoeuver  - this may be a problem later if I'm too noisy :lol:  L shaped in design it fits into the corner and can be removed for easy access although there is also plenty  of room underneath for limbo dancers ...



To ensure consistent alignment I have used these simple male/female alignment dowels  that I purchased a few years ago from DCC Concepts but never used.       http://www.dccconcepts.com/index_files/Baseboard_alignment_dowels.htm



The whole thing fits snugly into place and trains will run with just the dowels but to give the unit that extra "snug fit" I have found that these mini claps that I picked up in a pack of 3 for $10 are just the thing. Simple to put in place and easy to remove.


This last photo shows one in situ - a few squeezes on the orange handle to pull the two frames snugly together and a push on the balck button to release - 5 seconds and a guaranteed track alignment with less than a 1mm gap every time.

Those with eagle eyes may have noticed white PVA glue on the track ends -  as I am using flexitrack for the straight lengths I have found that when dry (24 hours) the rail holds nice and firm and there is no travel as would normally be the case.

All in all a successful weekend - now I can literally get back on track (groan)  - next weekend I am away at a nephews wedding in the hinterland behind the Gold Coast so it is unlikely I'll get much time to work on the layout.


 


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Back from the Wedding and managed to get some time to myself to work on the layout.  Spent the afternoon working on the main upper level.
This section is hinged to allow easy access to the part of the fiddle yard that will be underneath.
 




 



Last edited on Sat Sep 15th, 2012 09:11 am by gdaysydney

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Thats a great idea Dave......very ingenious......you know my views on fiddle yards and that is a super way og getting access to the far tracks.:thumbs

Do you think that monitor will be big enough ? :pedal

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Now that's a very clever idea Dave :pathead

I'd guess you can keep the electrics all joined up on a long cable when it's raised but what about track alignment ?  I'm guessing the tracks will continue around the room on this upper level too ..............:roll::roll:

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. . . and beautiful carpentry.  It's very satisfying, isn't it?   :thumbs

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John, Peter, Thanks for your comments.

I'll confirm ( or otherwise ) how great it is when I get around to laying track and scenery.  Whatever goes along the back will need to be removable to allow for the upper level to be fully elevated although once complete I am thinking that it might not be necessary to open it that far.  It will however be very useful during track construction though.

Peter, track wiring on the upper level and point motors will be an issue in that they will have to be placed with the lower track in mind.  Wiring should not be a major concern as I will run all wiring along the timber supports to the back and then down to the main BUS or accessory panels ( block controllers, signal controllers etc) which run along the back of the lower cross supports.   The BUS is divided into two sections that effectively go twice around the room to feed the "upper" and "lower" levels - the "upper" level track will drop so that trains will go via the fiddle yard before climbing again via the "lower" level to enter the upper platform.
The alignment at both ends will be problematic, as well as the upper level on the movable section (see post dated Sept 3), only time will tell how problematic :roll:

I have laid the track out very roughly on the other side of the room and there will also be sufficient room on the adjacent side for a small terminal  ( Preserved Railway ? as a license to run old and newer rolling stock. :lol:) This will run from the fiddle yard.

John - re the computer screen - too big to fit under the layout - too small to mount on the wall :cry:
 
No doubt I will come across more construction issues as the layout proceeds - watch this space...

Last edited on Sun Sep 16th, 2012 01:01 am by gdaysydney

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Its been two weeks since my last update  - most of the framework is now complete and I  have now commenced more track laying and wiring. 
For those of you that have heard that DCC eliminates the need for complex wiring - that is true ... until you venture down the path of computer control.  On my previous layout and on this one all the points will be controlled via a computer so all the point motors need to connected to stationary decoders. I am using a mix of NCE and Lenz decoders for this purpose.

This is one of six Lenz LS150 that I will end up using . This one is controlling 6 Tortoise point motors and as such  the inputs have to be modified by adding diodes.


For computer control I also need block detectors so that the computer software can detect anything that draws current. You may have read my earlier posts on the Team Digital block detectors - in this photo you can see my production line for the NCE equivalent of the SIC24ad- each board controls 14 inputs.



This is the near end of the train room  - the photo taken whilst I was wiring the lower level including the terminus on the left.  A range of tools plus a mug of tea !



Finally a photo of some track work as I lay  one end of the terminus. It will serve a single platform and have a run around and a spare line for rolling stock.  I'm thinking this will be my preserved railway station that will be my excuse to run anything I like but most likely a pannier and autocoach plus other steam locos that can later perform John Dew's kadee shuffle under computer control.
( the wires projecting from the Peco points are from the Tortoise point motors - these will be trimmed )

Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2012 09:21 am by gdaysydney

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Hi Dave

Thats looking good.........your wiring is a lot neater than mine.......I particularly like the way you have set up the diodes for the tortoises......I leave mine exposed and I must confess it looks very un professional.

I do hope with all your panniers you are going to do a loco xchange as well as a run around :mutley:mutley

Are the tortoises on the insulfrog double slip for consistency or do you need the switch (tortoise) for other purposes? On the first double slips I installed I wired tortoises including switches to change polarity:shock::shock::shock: and then took forever to work out why I had shorts:oops::oops::oops:................having said that Tortoises are so much more reliable and the action more pleasing that I rather wish I had put them in my other slips even though, for me, the switches are redundant.

Incidentally, and I am sure I dont have to tell you this, I found that the transistion between the double slip and the next connection had to be absolutely dead straight for at least 2". Dont ask why I know this!:oops::oops: 

Kind Regards


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John Dew wrote: Hi Dave
I do hope with all your panniers you are going to do a loco xchange as well as a run around :mutley:mutley



I tried  a loco exchange on Not North Road with some success so there is no reason for me  not to give it a go when the new layout is up and running......  especially if I am suffering withdrawal symptoms from  RR&Co  induced frustration.  At present I have not even started programming the basics :cry:  So if I agree to stop suggesting you get sound for your Pannier will you promise not to tempt me with a loco exchange - for the next 4-5 months ;-)


Are the tortoises on the insulfrog double slip for consistency or do you need the switch (tortoise) for other purposes? On the first double slips I installed I wired tortoises including switches to change polarity:shock::shock::shock: and then took forever to work out why I had shorts:oops::oops::oops:................having said that Tortoises are so much more reliable and the action more pleasing that I rather wish I had put them in my other slips even though, for me, the switches are redundant.

  

I had two double slips side by side in the old layout and the worked without any problems.  I used Tortoise motors for reliability and because of the complexity of the double slips I opted to use them as they operate more gently  than the Peco motors.  I confess to not having ever used the switch functionality on the Tortoise as I have never found a need for it ( plus I have never worked  out how to do it ):oops: 


Incidentally, and I am sure I don't have to tell you this, I found that the transition between the double slip and the next connection had to be absolutely dead straight for at least 2". Don't ask why I know this!:oops::oops: 

Kind Regards



John  - that's interesting -  up until this layout I have never put a curve ( other than those on a point ) ,after a slip but in the terminus I will need to - I'll let you know if it creates the same problem for me.




Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 08:56 am by gdaysydney

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How do you post the quotes you're answering in blue "picture frames" like that Dave (and John) ?...........:???::???::???:

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Hi Pete

use the "quote" as normal and then select and copy all of  the quote and paste as many times as you require.  Once that is done simply delete the text in the quote that is not required.

Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 12:07 pm by gdaysydney

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As easy as that :shock::shock::shock:  And there was me thinking I was missing out on some amazing new thingie to do with word processing.

I remember when electricity first came in, I couldn't understand why they didn't have to  fill the bulbs with paraffin every night and trim the wicks in the morning .........:cheers

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Dave,
Just a suggestion here. If you are concerned about the tracks aligning up when you raise and lower the upper level, you might want to put in a couple of 45 degree braces in it, to try and keep it from moving left or right. I know every time I build anything rectangular it doesn't take much effort to push it out of square.

Wayne

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That's a good idea Wayne - easy to do too.

When I build anything rectangular, I build it out of square so the bumps correct it .....................:roll::roll::cheers

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gdaysydney wrote:  So if I agree to stop suggesting you get sound for your Pannier will you promise not to tempt me with a loco exchange - for the next 4-5 months ;-)



:mutley:mutley   Does that mean you dont want to see my automated Goods Yard shunting sequence then?:cry::cry::cry:

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Wayne Williams wrote: Dave,
Just a suggestion here. If you are concerned about the tracks aligning up when you raise and lower the upper level, you might want to put in a couple of 45 degree braces in it, to try and keep it from moving left or right. I know every time I build anything rectangular it doesn't take much effort to push it out of square.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne,   that's a good idea.:thumbs   I will have to make them relatively small across the corners as I need clear space underneath the upper board for point motors - I am already facing issues with the location of the points as no matter how I design the upper track layout  there always seems to be one point where the point motor is immediately over a supporting timber frame :twisted:

Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 10:45 pm by gdaysydney

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John Dew wrote:
:mutley:mutley   Does that mean you dont want to see my automated Goods Yard shunting sequence then?:cry::cry::cry:


Oh  I have such little will power  !!:hmm
   OK all bets off -  I wanna see your automated sequence  ! 

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Dave,
Size isn't too important, but bigger is always better, just put them in as manny corners as you can. Keep in mind, they don't have to be within the framework, they can be on the bottom of it too, works just as well. maybe that will help with your point motors. I don't use them so your on your own there.

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote: Dave,
Size isn't too important, but bigger is always better, just put them in as many corners as you can. Keep in mind, they don't have to be within the framework, they can be on the bottom of it too, works just as well. maybe that will help with your point motors. I don't use them so your on your own there.

Wayne


Wayne   Thanks for the advice  - I will certainly take heed before I commence the wiring and track laying etc on the upper level.



I have now started the track laying and wiring in earnest and have also commenced programming RR&Co

This is the first schematic of the layout :  as the layout is under construction now is the time for any suggestions

Last edited on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 08:15 am by gdaysydney

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gdaysydney wrote
This is the first schematic of the layout :  as the layout is under construction now is the time for any suggestions

. . . model US outline?  ;-)

Seriously.  It looks like you'll get a fun layout from that, Dave.  :thumbs

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MaxSouthOz wrote:
. . . model US outline?  ;-)


Well not seriously but you do seem to be having fun finding good locos at reasonable prices and fixing them up



Seriously.  It looks like you'll get a fun layout from that, Dave.  :thumbs


Lets hope so Max - I have tried very hard not to fall into the trap of having too much track and yet allowing me to take full advantage of RR&Co potential - especially having watched Petes, John's and your efforts in mastering auto shunting etc


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I'll be watching that, Dave.  Tim's Axe is soon to fall on my RR&Co shelf layout.  I think I've come to grips with TC and next I'm going for a more complicated one.  :shock:

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Hi Dave

Some comments.........based to some degree on "I wish I had done that".............hindsight is a wonderful thing


[1] Is it possible to run a two branch head shunt siding back off at least one of the two bays.......the top one perhaps? You will find that invaluable for loco exchanges because the relief loco sits in the short spur.....moves forward couples with the recently arrived train pulls it back into the second longer spur allowing the incoming loco to be released ...........this is quite prototypical for steam but more to the point easy to achieve with TC and it means while this shunting is taking place other trains can do roundy roundy on the main lines.

You will find you cant have too many relief spurs...........to accomodate all the panniers:lol:

(I am assuming you havent finished the blocks on the main line and terminus?)


[2] I do like the way you have set up all the crossovers at the terminus.......simple but effective....each road is muti directional  ..................is it possible to do something similar for the fiddle yard exits? ...........without them you may have some operational limitations.


[3] I like the 4 spurs you have at each corner of the fiddle yard........"I wish I had done that"............if you could move them up to be opposite line 3 they will be able to serve lines 1 2 and 3..............as currently set up they can only serve line 1


[4] What are the switches for at end of each fiddle yard line?


Hope that is of some use..................I am sure there are all manner of practical considerations that make all or some of them impossible.......................they just reflect my thoughts based on operating TC on Granby

Kind Regards









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John Thanks as always for your feedback

John Dew wrote:

[1] Is it possible to run a two branch head shunt siding back off at least one of the two bays.......the top one perhaps? You will find that invaluable for loco exchanges because the relief loco sits in the short spur.....moves forward couples with the recently arrived train pulls it back into the second longer spur allowing the incoming loco to be released ...........this is quite prototypical for steam but more to the point easy to achieve with TC and it means while this shunting is taking place other trains can do roundy roundy on the main lines.

You will find you cant have too many relief spurs...........to accomodate all the panniers:lol:

(I am assuming you havent finished the blocks on the main line and terminus?)


:thumbsGood suggestion,  I should be able to fit at least one in off the top bay and maybe on the bottom bay if I have the room. 

and yes you are correct in that I haven't finished setting up the bocks anywhere on the layout as yet !

( reference to Panniers noted  ) 

John Dew wrote:

[2] I do like the way you have set up all the crossovers at the terminus.......simple but effective....each road is muti directional  ..................is it possible to do something similar for the fiddle yard exits? ...........without them you may have some operational limitations.



:hmmI'll give it another look - there are space limitations on the fiddle yard level and whilst the schematic shows straight lengths entering the fiddle yard  in reality there are curves at both ends

John Dew wrote:
[3] I like the 4 spurs you have at each corner of the fiddle yard........"I wish I had done that"............if you could move them up to be opposite line 3 they will be able to serve lines 1 2 and 3..............as currently set up they can only serve line 1



yes I see what you mean -  my problem is again lack of  space - I could do it on the up line fiddle yard although it would make the fiddle yard wider and hence further under the top level which I am trying to avoid ( even though the top is hinged). 

John Dew wrote:
[4] What are the switches for at end of each fiddle yard line?



I will be using RR&Co for automated and manual running -  In Not North Road I found it easier to use switches rather than the points themselves to manually control the points.   Easier in that the button is a better target for the mouse pointer and also from a visual perspective. - I have a uniform approach which means that if all the switches are showing say ''on" then I immediately know which way the switches are set - this combined with the signals means less accidents when I'm in control :oops:

Thanks again

:thumbs

Last edited on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 11:33 pm by gdaysydney

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Glad it was of some use Dave

I kind of guessed there may be some space limitations in the fiddle yard......I am assuming most trains are going to be of the roundy roundy  nature?

If fiddle yard visibilty/access is difficult you will, of course, still be able to run your loco runaround or loco exchanges from terminus  to branch....................I didnt spot that yesterday:oops:

Thats a neat idea with switches for the points......makes a lot of sense

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Its been more than a month since I posted an update on how Notmutley is progressing.

I had just finished laying the track that completes one of the two main lines on the upper level when the Blue Pullam was delivered -  I thought this would be a good excuse for a photo...




I have now completed enough track to allow a loco to run the complete length of the layout from the fiddle yard to the upper deck and then continuing around back to the upper deck ( which will the main station area).

For those of you into the block detection I resolved the problem with team digital BlocD8's and RR&Co  which now gives me an extra 24 block detectors (with all 3 BLOC D8's working) in addition to my NCE block detectors.

The wiring is getting more complex as I progress as I have decided to place detectors on all the points
- this is a snapshot underneath the area that holds the fiddle yard and the top main station...


as you can see there is still a lot of wiring to do :pedal

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DCC - just two wires.  :shock:

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Yes, if necessary Max - red ones and black ones ..................:roll::roll::roll::roll:

I hope you know where all those wires go Dave ......:shock::shock:

The Blue Pullman looks good - does it run as well as it looks ?

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For those of you into the block detection I resolved the problem with team digital BlocD8's and RR&Co  which now gives me an extra 24 block detectors (with all 3 BLOC D8's working) in addition to my NCE block detectors.

The wiring is getting more complex as I progress as I have decided to place detectors on all the points

Hi Dave

It must be a huge plus building a new layout having already worked with RR&Co. I have spent the last week under the storage yard baseboard adjusting the length of blocks that I laid out before the software.......all too often my pre conceived ideas failed to work in practice:twisted:.......incidentally your wiring is much much neater than mine

Brilliant idea to use detectors for the points.......is this for occupancy or to track actual blade movement?

Its probably a bit late to mention this now and I am not sure to what extent you have used Flagmen as second indicators in blocks........for loco exchanges or even a loco coupling with a rake of coaches that draw current...............I use them a lot and they have actually released contact indicators in some sidings I have............the only requirement is to have a reliable reference point close to the entrance .

PS Knew it wouldnt be long before you posted a shot of the Pullmans.........they do look splendid

Kind Regards from a wet Vancouver

PPS Welcome back Peter......the forum has been quiet without you!

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Thanks for the "Hello again" John - from what I still have to read, I'm not sure the forum has been all that quiet !!  Maybe less in the way of "silly" posts and more "useful" ones whilst I've been away on what turned out to be a very difficult trip for me,  but I won't go into that here.


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MaxSouthOz wrote: DCC - just two wires.  :shock:

:mutley

It started out that way !  
  • First came droppers at regular intervals (red & black wires)
  • Then I went for DCC point control via the hand held controller -  with NCE this meant some small wiring but nothing major as I was using peco motors ( red and black wires)
  • Then I started using Tortoise point motors - they needed a different assessory decoder ( I use Lenz LS150s)  Suddenly the wiring increased ( Blue and white wires) plus the Lenz decoders require their own power ( brown and yellow wires)
  • Then I decided to go to computer control (RR&Co)  so Block detectors (NCE) were attached to the each dropper ( along with track lengths being insulated)  The blocks then have to be connected to the BUS via another accessory decoder ( NCE) (Green and white wires) 
  • Then I bought team digital blocker detectors that run off a separate Loconet command BUS - more BUS wires ( CREAM -  NCE  command BUS is Black)  Plus another independent power supply ( black bell wire cable)
Still to come - all the wiring for signalling !! ( which will run on the Loconet )

I had all this set up on my old layout  but now have to reconstruct form scratch for Notmutley :roll:Luckily I do enjoy the challenge and the option of having the computer control everything whilst I "play" with the hand held controller.
Oh  that brings me to programming RR&Co  .......:pedal

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John Dew wrote: .....incidentally your wiring is much much neater than mine

Crikey John:shock:  -  I haven't tidied it up yet !  When I have finished all the connections etc I will be using ties to organise the runs of different colour wiring -  

[color="#008800" style="font-weight: bold;"]John Dew wrote:Brilliant idea to use detectors for the points.......is this for occupancy or to track actual blade movement?

Occupancy only at present - once I have everything running - schedules etc  I will experiment with using assessory decoders to check that the blades have switched as RR&Co does provide for this functionality. 

In regard to your comments regarding Flagmen I have yet to start the task of scheduling. The only programming I have been doing is getting the signalling ( in RR&Co not physically) to operate correctly.  On my old layout I used flagmen for this but on this layout I have used the "conditions" 

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Petermac wrote: Yes, if necessary Max - red ones and black ones ..................:roll::roll::roll::roll:

I hope you know where all those wires go Dave ......:shock::shock:

The Blue Pullman looks good - does it run as well as it looks ?


:hiWelcome back Peter

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I never cease to get a buzz when eventually after what seems like months of effort the layout is at last completed to a stage where I can play trains.  Now I have the choice of what to work on - more track work ( especially on the upper level) , scenery, or computer control.
 :Happy

The picture above shows my test trains -  a Mainline "warship" converted to  fit a Bachmann chassis -  this was my first test train - it will run almost anywhere as long as there a hint of power in the track. A class 08  with sound -  I use this with the sound on once I have proven that there are no wiring issues - as it is very sensitive to dodgy track work -  two kettles and a DMU - all with different  running capabilities exclam:-
The net result is that the trackwork passed the initial test - including the track joins on the upper level and the removal section at the door  ( which was a big relief )

Its hard to see in the photo but I have also put in place a 3 inch  perspex guard along the far edge of the lower level fiddle yard to prevent me knocking locos on the floor while working on the lower level and to remind me that I can no longer use the lower level as a workbench.
:It's a no no

This photo the upper layer in position from the opposite angle and  better shows the perspex guard. As you can see from all the bare cork  there's plenty more to do- including tidying up the floor !!:roll:




Last edited on Tue Nov 20th, 2012 07:00 am by gdaysydney

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Excellent work, Dave.  :thumbs

It's like a blank canvas when you start, isn't it?

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:doublethumb Well done Dave!  Looks very organised and professional. You will not regret the space between the storage tracks. I do like the plastic guard.......neat and practical.

What will happen with the front half of the storage yard......I believe that will remain open......how will you landscape it? 

Did you use a Pannier for testing?:pedal

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Dave, the perspex guard is essential - I use some on the D&S to protect signals & close buildings.

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John Dew wrote:
What will happen with the front half of the storage yard......I believe that will remain open......how will you landscape it? 

Did you use a Pannier for testing?:pedal


Hi John,

Three good questions :

The front half of the storage yard will ultimately be "dressup" to blend in with the upper level although I have not thought out how at this point.

The outer loop around the windows will be behind the landscaping and hidden from view when looking at the layout at layout height .  The inner loop will have a number of short tunnels so that it will give the impression of going through hilly country - maybe some thing like Dawlish ??

The panniers ?


:mutley

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:mutley:mutley:mutley

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:shock::shock::shock::shock:

I make that 42 wheels collecting power Dave - should be no problem there .................:roll::roll::mutley

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Petermac wrote: :shock::shock::shock::shock:

I make that 42 wheels collecting power Dave - should be no problem there .................:roll::roll::mutley


Now there's a thought - power issues aside  -Is there a  maximum number of locos that can be run in a consist ?   quest: 

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From a DCC point of view, I think it's 999, Dave.

Rule of thumb with power, allow a fraction of an Amp current draw and divide by the Amp capacity of your controller.

e.g. loco = 1/4 Amp >  power supply = 5 Amps >  theroetically 20

Summat like that.  :???:

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Hi Dave,

Just read the whole thread here. Looking at the wiring you have done for DCC scares me a little !! Maybe one day I'll take the step into DCC territory. How soon is the question..??
On the other hand, I'm impressed by your wiring and patience.

Cheers, Gary.

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Hi Gary,
Don't let my layout put you off DCC. Mine is complicated as I wanted to have everything computer controlled -  a virtual switchboard if you like.  :roll:

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Its been a few months since my last update on Notmutley. 
Due to the hot weather I have not spent as much time on it as I would have liked but progress has been made.
All the track work has been laid and the wiring all but completed. There have been some design changes  to the main station area from the original plan. The schematic below shows the final configuration although it is not to scale as it is the RR&Co view.

Until the weather cools down a bit I'll be concentrating on programming - mainly the logic to drive the signals as these will be computer controlled.




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With most of the wiring almost complete and a few changes to the placement of my "blocks" ( for RR&Co)  I have ordered two Metcalfe platform kits to start on the visible side of the layout.
As per my usual "plan it as you go along" when it comes to landscaping I find starting with a main feature helps.

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Hi Dave,

You're still scaring me with all that wiring... :lol::lol::lol: 

Actually I have started wiring 'Kelly Bray' to DCC. Who ever said 'two wires', can't count !

Cheers, Gary.

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Gary wrote: Hi Dave,

You're still scaring me with all that wiring... :lol::lol::lol: 

Actually I have started wiring 'Kelly Bray' to DCC. Who ever said 'two wires', can't count !

Cheers, Gary.

Yep DCC is only one wire - at a time :mutley
I shall watch your "wiring"progress on Kelly Bray with interest ...

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Progress is slow but I'm almost finished with the wiring and debugging.  Today I discovered one faulty output on the Lenz LS150

These photos show the top deck where the station will go and the wiring that is underneath.  Those with eagle eyes will note some working buffer lights and ground signals...

upper level waiting for work on the station  to commence.. Buffers have been fitted with lights ( two can be seen in the distance ) plus some ground signals


Part of the wiring underneath:  DCC "bus" - red wires-  block detectors - white and blue, tortoise motors - green and white plus  signal wires- various colours

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You're moving things on a rate of knots Dave - it's putting my puny efforts to shame. :cry::cry::cry:

Tell me more about the "faulty output" on the LS 150 ........:roll:  I've just bought a couple ot install and, if mine don't work, I'm going back to clockwork ..........:???:

I'm also impressed by your neat colour coded wires.  I currently have black and red looking very much like spaghetti ...:oops:

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Petermac wrote:
Tell me more about the "faulty output" on the LS 150 ........:roll:  I've just bought a couple ot install and, if mine don't work, I'm going back to clockwork ..........:???:


Hi Pete, 
Put the key away ( weren't they a nuisance - I was always putting mine down and forgetting where I had put it!:oops:)
I have 7 LS 150's controlling 42 points  - this is the first one I have had problems with in 6 years and  I am not sure why. 
I use my controller and RR&Co to operate my points and the problem first manifested itself with the point in question taking an unusually longer time than normal to respond - which was a problem as it was one of the two points on a double slip.  I increased the pulse time which appeared to resolve the issue when I tested it immediately after making the adjustment but then it won't work at all!!  All other points on the LS150 work as normal. 

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With 7 of them over 6 years, I feel a little more comfortable now Dave.

Strange that it's just 1 output and not the whole unit ...........could it be something to do with the motor positioning ?  I think you said you use SEEPs as well as Tortoise and I've read that they can be awkward if they're not perfectly aligned.

I bought one of those Tortoise remote couplers to see how easy it is to wire up a single motor to do a cross-over.  I'm still waiting for the rest of the necessary supplies to arrive from UK. so haven't started anything yet.

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Petermac wrote:
Strange that it's just 1 output and not the whole unit ...........could it be something to do with the motor positioning ?  I think you said you use SEEPs as well as Tortoise and I've read that they can be awkward if they're not perfectly aligned.

I bought one of those Tortoise remote couplers to see how easy it is to wire up a single motor to do a cross-over.  I'm still waiting for the rest of the necessary supplies to arrive from UK. so haven't started anything yet.


Yes bit of a mystery - I double checked all the components and the common factor was the output on the LS150.  I swapped the diodes (The tortoise needs these to work on the LS150)  tested the Tortoise itself and eventually connect the two Tortoise motors to another LS150 where they both worked perfectly.    The faulty output also appeared to accept programming correctly.   SEEPS were not an issue as I don't have any.
I have not heard of a remote coupler that allows a single motor to  operate a crossover ( is this the same as a double slip?) - do you have a link to an appropriate web page ?
 

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The cross-over isn't a double slip Dave.  That has to operate as two separate turnouts.  It's two identical points "head to head", one on the up line facing another on the down line (to allow a train on the "up" line to cross over to the "down" line).  They must operate together otherwise there's nowhere for the switching train to go .................:shock::shock:

This is the gadget I bought:

 http://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/track/accessories/tortoise-cross-over-linkage.aspx

and here's what it claims to do:

http://www.7mm.co/shop/tortoise%20_accessories.pdf

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Thanks for the links Pete,  I now comprehend.  Merci 
I don't use remote tortoise mounts so for me it would out almost as expensive as buying two motors.   

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That's the problem Dave.  By the time you've bought both gadgets, you're only a few quid off the price of a motor and, from what the article said, the motor is easier to fit.

The reason I bought one is because I don't have a spare output on the LS150 so would have to either buy another for a single point or wire it all the way back to a panel of some kind.  It may not work of course ..................:roll::roll:

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I'll be interested to see how you go -  I assume you put the mounting somewhere near to the middle of the two points. 
You will need to adjust the pulse setting as the default pulse time of 0.1 second will not be enough for the Tortoise - I set mine to the maximum of 10 seconds.



Last edited on Tue Mar 19th, 2013 12:51 am by gdaysydney

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Peter, on a crossover, you can use two motors wired in parallel so both operate at the same time from the one output.

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Sol wrote: Peter, on a crossover, you can use two motors wired in parallel so both operate at the same time from the one output.

Sol,    
Peter plans to use the Lenz LS150 which I understand doesn't have the current to handle two motors off the one output.

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Not 2 motors totalling 60mA?
bit poor I would say but looking at the manual http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/Manuals/LS150.pdf with a pulse of 3-4 seconds required for a Tortoise, etc, the output is 1A so it should do two in parallel.

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I have sidetracked lately so actual progress on the layout has been very slow hence the lack of updates.

This was my latest distraction - automating a semaphore signal with a surplus Tortoise motor.   I built a proof of concept so that I won't need to be crawling around under the layout - especially if it didn't work. As you will see it works very well with minimum modification.

Very short video of the semaphore working

Using an old Hornby toy train signal, a surplus Tortoise and connecting to an existing LS150 decoder - total cost $nil. 

Last edited on Thu May 2nd, 2013 06:31 am by gdaysydney

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very effective Dave.

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Having now installed the working semaphore signal on the layout  I needed to identify it visually on the RR&Co switchboard. This was my first attempt at editing icons using RR&Co -

Semaphore signal icons ....


I'm pleasantly pleased with the outcome - one of the few projects I've attempted that have cost be nothing and didn't take substantially longer than planned ( Did I mention the Krois automated uncouplers:oops:)

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Whilst working on schedules and Timetables in RR&Co  tonight I noticed for the first time the addition of "Save Train Positions" and Restore train positions" under the Railroad drop-down list.  This is a new feature in version 8.0









This will be very useful  as it will allow me to save the starting positions of locos for each of the eras I may choose to run - GWR, BR Steam, Green diesel, Blue diesels, modern, etc. and I won't have to assign locos to their starting blocks every time..



Last edited on Tue May 7th, 2013 07:29 am by

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I have redesigned the yet unnamed branchline area. This is a RR&Co schematic of the redesigned area;
 

It not only gives me an additional siding for those "preserved"or old rolling stock but also gives me room to develop the station area.  Previously the station platform was against the railway embankment with no logical access.... You can see the location of my newly automated semaphore signal just above block 60-12.

I haven't had time to replace the push button switches with routes which are a lot more effective - especially if operating manually.

I also dug out my old "train cam" wagon from Branor. Had a few issues to start with as the unit had not been used for over 12 months and the built in battery had lost its charge.  A few emails to Branor and problem fixed.  So for the first time I was able to see the layout from a train eye perspective.

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This is a short video showing what can be done with computer control.

A sound fitted Pannier tank engine  uncouples automatically whilst under computer control

http://youtu.be/Zp3WY-FNK0k

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To show you that I have been doing actual work on the layout and not just mucking about with computers here's a track level view taken with a Branor Cam truck.  This was the first time I have used it on Notmutley.

http://youtu.be/yWGB0p4RQfI

Last edited on Tue May 21st, 2013 10:26 am by gdaysydney

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God dammit man... I'm trying to resist going sound decoders (with the associated DCC two wire evil).... and you are not making it any easier. :mutley
Lovely sounds, great layout.
cheers
Marty

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This is looking great. Also the loco ran so smooth on the track z sign of a good baseboard no bumps.

What camera is on the back?

Jim

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Marty wrote: God dammit man... I'm trying to resist going sound decoders (with the associated DCC two wire evil).... and you are not making it any easier. :mutley
Lovely sounds, great layout.
cheers
Marty

Thanks Marty the layout is still bare bones but somehow from track level it looks better - even with the "unusual" trackside items

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jimmy styles wrote: This is looking great. Also the loco ran so smooth on the track z sign of a good baseboard no bumps.

What camera is on the back?

Jim

Thanks Jim,

The camera is in a Cam Truck sold by Branor systems.  You connect it to a USB port on your computer and charge up the battery.  Then put the wagon on the track. They us a Hornby Closed Van R6422 which is modified to take the electronics and rechargeable battery. 

http://www.branor.co.uk/

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Great video with the cam wagon. The inclines/declines definately look a lot steeper in OO scale !

Cheers, Gary.

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Great vids Dave. :thumbs

I love the "click-clack" as she crosses the points and rail joins - really authentic.

What with Marty trying to avoid going "modern" and me trying to avoid RR & Co (or anything similar), you're not much of a mate to either of us ..............:roll::roll::twisted:

I know nothing about RR & Co but how long are the blocks in your 4 track station - i.e. between 60-12, 50-01 and 50-08 ?

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Petermac wrote: Great vids Dave. :thumbs

I love the "click-clack" as she crosses the points and rail joins - really authentic.

What with Marty trying to avoid going "modern" and me trying to avoid RR & Co (or anything similar), you're not much of a mate to either of us ..............:roll::roll::twisted:

I know nothing about RR & Co but how long are the blocks in your 4 track station - i.e. between 60-12, 50-01 and 50-08 ?

Thanks for your comments Pete,

The blocks are  small :  60-12  is 35 cm in lenghth, 50-01 is 30 cm and block 50-08 is 20 cm  but big enough to handle a run around.

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Gary wrote: Great video with the cam wagon. The inclines/declines definately look a lot steeper in OO scale !

Cheers, Gary.

I agree but a necessary evil to accommodate the two levels in the space :cry:

gdaysydney
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Crikey where did the past 6 months go?

My apologies for not posting any updates. I have been spending most of my spare time on dealing with life. Any spare time on the layout has been predominantly spent on programming RR&Co or fixing things.

I did get side tracked by a Lima Great Western HST that I bought at least 10-15 years ago - fitted a decoder and then rewired so that the power is suppled by the following coach - that freed up all the driving wheels so that I could use "Bullfrog Snot" to get traction on all four wheels which allows the motor to pull four carriages around Not Mutley without any problems -
( I  used Google to see if I could clarify when this model was released - no joy but I did find someone on ebay asking 199 quid for a similar model. According to my records, which I later found I bought it in 1998 for 40 quid ! )

I have made one change to the layout since my last post - Additional track added to the branchline so that it is now part of a loop that continues back to the fiddle yard.

I will post some photos as soon as I have tidied the layout up a bit :)

Last edited on Tue Nov 5th, 2013 12:12 pm by gdaysydney

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I know the feeling Dave.......RR&Co can take up a load of time and once most of the trackwork is done I find I spend more time operating than "scenicking"

Good to hear from you....looking forward to the photos.

Regards

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John Dew wrote: I know the feeling Dave.......RR&Co can take up a load of time and once most of the trackwork is done I find I spend more time operating than "scenicking"

Regards

Thanks John,

In Granby's case I think you can be excused - given the state of my layout I have a long way to go and will have to make a concerted effort.  At least I can report that all traces of the old layout have gone even if the Usable remains are now cluttering the new train room.:oops:

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We'll forgive you John.... when we see the photographic evidence?! :twisted: :lol::lol::lol:

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Its been a while since I posted any photos of the layout - mainly due to the lack of progress or due to the fact that I have distracted by the many avenues that appear when you venture into the dark side of DCC or worst still computer control which I actually enjoy.

I thought it was about time I started making an attempt to at least have one area of the layout that made some attempt to look the part and not just some tracks laid out on bare boards.! So over the weekend I spent most of the daylight hours outside in the sunshine building cardboard kits - as you will see I went into assembly line mode for the Scalescene low relief viaduct.

I had purchased some Metcalfe platform card kits over a year ago so I thought I would have a go and putting them together.  I decided after much agonising to make the foundation for the platform from timber rather than just the cardboard as both platforms will be on a part of the layout that is hinged for access to the lower level fiddle yard ( in case of derailments etc)  and the cardboard looked too flimsy whereas with timber it would be all one piece.



I have used the Scalescenes low relief viaduct for the wall directly behind the station  just to give the scene a bit of dimension and have been experimenting with other scalescene low relief buildings ( including the freebie)  hopefully to add a bit of depth into what will be a limited space which has been dictated by, amongst other things  the position of the hinges - the layout beyond the hinges drops whilst the much larger area in the front lifts up.

The island platform is my first attempt at building with cardboard - the station is fitted with LEDS as well as the DCC Concept gas lamps.  These are all connected to a stationary decoder which enables me to turn on the lighting form the hand controller or automatically by the computer which can run a timetable - which includes ambient sounds such as rush hour traffic, station announcements and now ( as evening approaches ) the lights on the layout.   Well for the moment the lights on platform 2 and 3 



This photo shows how the backdrop looks before the Scalescene viaduct is added - ( production line still in progress)  I am not sure if it just the camera but I may have to adjust the brightness of the lamps   I will need to wait until tonight and check them in the dark.

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Looking great Dave. :thumbs I think you need to put the controller down, turn off the RR&co and continue with the scenics..! :mutley

Cheers, Gary.

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Gary wrote: Looking great Dave. :thumbs I think you need to put the controller down, turn off the RR&co and continue with the scenics..! :mutley

Cheers, Gary.


Thanks Gary,   I agree the scenics have been a long time coming.

 

( confession time ) this is my fourth layout - on my previious three layouts I never completely finished the scenics :cry:

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Not to worry Dave as long as you enjoy yourself.:thumbs

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As Sparky has said, ' as long as you enjoy yourself', is the main reason we model. I can't wait to get to the scenic side of my layout. It is something I get a kick out of.

If you ever need a hand with the scenics, send me a PM.

Cheers, Gary.

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Thanks guys.

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I love that back wall on the platform Dave - this shot is a cracker:




Are you going to add a couple more lamps at the far end ?  That, IMHO, would complete the scene. :thumbs

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Thanks for the suggestion regarding the lamps  Pete.

The platform narrows towards the end so the jury is still out as to whether another lamp ( or 2) would fit.   I have yet to make so adjustments to the lamp brightness but adding another lamp won't be difficult.


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Having made the commitment to get on with the landscaping I have spent the last three days building Scalescenes warehouse.
I first saw this building on John Dews layout and decided that a full version could bridge the backscene and the layout with little modification. 
The model is yet to be completed but this is progress to date - I am very pleased with the results even if it has taken a lot of my time.

This is the production line -  located outdoors in the shade (after a big tidy up - including the glass of red )



The model is very sturdy as there effectively four layers ...


Doors and roof yet to go on -  there will be no back as the building will hopefully merge into the backscreen  ( like  low relief but in this case very large !)


The interior  with floor and beams ready for the next level. 


All I need now is some thing that can be seen through the windows, which were foggy before and even foggier after I sprayed the building with a clear matt finish !!
Any ideas on what could go on these floors -  I have a LED "welding" circuit that would give the appearance of something industrial ??

Hopefully in the next few evenings there will sufficient light and wine to enable me to finish the build so that my next photos will be of the completed building on the layout.

Last edited on Mon Feb 10th, 2014 02:21 pm by gdaysydney

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Good looking building Dave. How deep is the background section you are putting this in ?

Cheers, Gary.

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Gary wrote: Good looking building Dave. How deep is the background section you are putting this in ?

Cheers, Gary.

The background section is approx the width of one window area - you might be able to make it out in the recent photo with the pannier stopped at the platform.


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It's a great kit Dave but as you say, it takes some time to build !!!

Maxmill has a small one and others are planned for the industrial area so, of all his kits, this one is going to earn it's keep !!! :thumbs

I see yours is stone - it looks good.  Is the name board from the kit ?

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Petermac wrote: I see yours is stone - it looks good.  Is the name board from the kit ?

Thanks Pete,

Glad you like the stone  - I thought the stone look was more "west country " than the brick.  The name board is as supplied.  I toyed with the idea of making my own - which I could do at some time in the future I guess,  but for now I just wanted to get it finished !!

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Warehouse now in situ on the layout - ableit with modifications!  Still work to be done - roof and sides wher the warehouse joins the back wall - plus all the stuff to bring it to life ( including lights)


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Now that is looking good Dave, very nice. The warehouse stonework matches quite well with the reatining wall/arches. :thumbs I take it that the Pannier and vans are just in storage and no tracks exist there ?? Only reason I ask, is that I think a line running into an entrance on the side wall would look great.

Cheers, Gary.

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Gary wrote: Now that is looking good Dave, very nice. The warehouse stonework matches quite well with the reatining wall/arches. :thumbs I take it that the Pannier and vans are just in storage and no tracks exist there ?? Only reason I ask, is that I think a line running into an entrance on the side wall would look great.

Cheers, Gary.


Thanks Gary,

There are two sidings and the pannier is on one of them ,  they run parrallel to the wall. I did consider  running a track into the building but decided against it in the end - but the beauty of Scalescenes is that I can always print off more building material and have another go later on.

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 A wet weekend in Sydney so a good excuse to get up into the train room and work on the replacement canopy for the island platform

I resurrected a canopy from NotNorth Road and after some repair and a repaint to fit in with a BR/GWR scheme.
Refitted the lights here we are : 

The canopy does not hit the arch walls so that objective has been met and all the lights have been adjusted to give a lower intensity.  They are all operated via the computer or the DCC command controller.


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A successful few hours ( OK many hours) spent on the layout this weekend working to get the station area actually looking like an attempt to replicate a railway.  The main platform and buildings ( Metcalfe kits) with external and internal lighting were put into place and lamps and LEDs wired to the stationary decoders.  I still have some fine tuning to do with the lights ( the eagle eyed amongst you will note that the additional lamp on the island platform working intermittently ( for reasons yet unknown).



The recently built  warehouse can be seen in the background - although from this angle the lighting gives more an impression of a fire on the ground floor:oops: -  more adjusting to attend to ....

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The commuters of NotMutley,  especially those stranded on platforms 2 & 3, where suddenly provided with an escape route in the form of a footbridge courtesy of Scalescenes and Handfrom the Sky Constructions.

A spokesman for the construction company advised commuters that in the very near future they would also be provided with a Newspaper Kiosk and a gents toilet. !


The Kiosk is under construction  -  and is already stocked with newspapers and magazines together with a very willing newspaper man who appears to have lost both his eyebrows and his eyes. 


The Scalescenes kit is easy to construct and takes about half an hour to put together. The photo below is a birds eye view before the roof goes into place ( after some lighting has been installed.)


Last edited on Mon Mar 24th, 2014 10:05 am by gdaysydney

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David,do the newspapers come as part of the kit?.

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Spurno wrote: David,do the newspapers come as part of the kit?.

yes they  do Alan.  I only used about 20% of the total - there is a whole sheet that can be cut up and used - effectively you make each newspaper individually and then glue them any way you want.  In the birds eye view you can see how I have made some into bundles as well as those on the counter - there are three different newspapers .

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I didn't relise that the papers come in brail for the blind...! ;-);-)

The footbridge and newspaper stand looks great and fits in quite nicely. :thumbs

Cheers, Gary.

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Following suggestions from those that are following my ramblings etc I have modified the warehouse so that a railway line now runs into it - I have also extended and added another siding :-

From this


to this:-


Still plenty more ballasting and scene work to do ( including fixing the gate).

Outside the warehouse looks a bit barren to my eye - any ideas /suggestions?

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the new siding is the biz,finishes the area nicely,as for the bare bits how about an empty trailer or twoparked up,maybe a n open packing case or crates ?
:thumbs;-):cool:

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Hi Dave,

The rail entrance looks good, well done. :thumbs I like the fencing that runs around the factory as well, but those gates need to be painted white with a big red cross on them.

I agree with Owen, some packaging crates, pallets or a trailer of some sort would look good. Perhaps you could also include a piece of retired machinery, rusting under tarps outside as well. Don't forget the oil drums as heavy machinery requires a lot of that black gold !

Cheers, Gary.

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This really does look the business! The timing is impeccable. I am planning on using this kit (in the same stone, too, I think) in the corner of Pig Hill, and I was trying to work out whether the openings would accommodate a siding. I had assumed they would, so this has confirmed.  Perhaps I'll use a different finish. I hope I can get it looking half as good as yours! :)

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Thanks for the feedback.

Mike - the scalescenes warehouse jst requires a lot of patience - be prepared for lots of pasting and cutting and you'll end up a modle that will be as good if not better than mine.

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Certainly does look good with the line now entering the building :thumbs

Ed

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Looking great Dave :thumbs

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Thanks for your kind comments.
Its been a while since I last posted mainly 'cause I have not being doing much with the layout!

This weekend I decided it was about time to do some more but quickly became distracted and ended up just playing trains.
But how come this nearly always ends up finding a problem with a particular loco or wagon that insists on derailing !!

In this case I found a section of track where the track level varied just slightly at the join - not a problem for 99.9% of the rolling stock but just one carriage out of 5 similar carriages insisted on derailing. After fiddling with the track the carriage ran fine for about 2 circuits of the layout before derailing again... I was then suckered into trying to find the problem with the carriage - the rest of the rolling stock, under the control of RailRoad & Co Train Controller, was performing perfectly.
I checked back to back measurements , swapped bogies, etc etc until after over an hour I gave up and put it on the list of things to do when I run out of more important things to do.

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Just a quick post as it has been almost 6 months since my last regarding progress on the layout.
The ssad news is that rather than progress I have gone backwards in that all the scenery on the top station level had to be removed for access to the manhole as I have had solar panels installed so that I can run the airconditioning for "free"  ( I am finding that as I get older I am less tolerant to the heat - that I used to enjoy when I was younger)

So for the record her is a picture of the station area in its current state  :sad:

Note the manhole and the specially made support which will be removed soon !! 

- for those of you not familiar with Notmutley this video ( made for a bit of fun)  will give you a good idea of what had to be removed .   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHl1Pas4s0&list=UUaoPkss2oCj1kXLRXG-ZIcg 


Last edited on Sat Dec 6th, 2014 03:35 am by gdaysydney

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Thats a Pain Dave.Plus its no fun clambering through those roof/loft access holes.
Hope you get back to your railway building soon.
Derek.

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Well, solar powered air-conditioning is one of the smarter moves if you can afford the capital cost Dave.... And as long as the station can be replaced I reckon that's gotta be a win.

You might have to make the station board removable to permit easy access to the manhole. What a silly place to put a man hole , straight over a model railway like that... :mutley


Marty

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Hi Dave

So sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations......it cant have been a fun summer (do you call it summer?).......you have been missed.

I do hope your wife's health continues to improve and Not Mutley becomes operational quite soon

My best wishes

John

ps After all that you probably dont want to talk about the Rugby?:pedal
 

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Thanks Marty,

Unfortunately we have a Cape Cod style house - when the room was a bedroom access was easy ( not that I ever went up there !)

John,

Yep we call it Summer - fortunately it lasts until about April /May so we have plenty of time to enjoy the outdoors ( if i can get Jeanne outside the house again! )

You can mention the rugby - heres hoping the new coach can do something with them before the world cup - I think loosing to Argentina for the first time was the nadir of their performance  and a false dawn with the win over Wales.



John Dew wrote:
Hi Dave

So sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations......it cant have been a fun summer (do you call it summer?).......you have been missed.

I do hope your wife's health continues to improve and Not Mutley becomes operational quite soon

My best wishes

John

ps After all that you probably dont want to talk about the Rugby?:pedal
 

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The old layout is no more having been partly demolished to allow access to the roof for the installation of air-conditioning.

The new NotMutley is a single level layout with storage on on side of the layout and the station on the other.

The most time consuming part to date has been dismantling the electrics and then rewiring and setting up the details in RR&Co
Today was a milestone in that I now have some track laid and can run a loco = albeit a very short distance.
I will start a new tread soon and post some pictures of the chaos.

Last edited on Mon Jun 22nd, 2015 11:38 am by gdaysydney

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Sounds like 'Out of the ashes .........................' , Dave

Good luck with the rebuild.



Ed

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The journey continues  - NotMutley take 2
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=13573&forum_id=21&jump_to=242669#p242669


                 

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