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00 Gauge - Notmutley - Ficticious Location - Members Personal Layouts. - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 02:59 am
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gdaysydney
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Those of you familiar with "Not North Road" will recall that a few months ago I made the big call to demolish the layout and start a new one in what was my son's bedroom which became vacant after he married and left home.

Its taken me a while to clear the remains of his belongings out into the garage and redecorate.  That done this weekend I started on the layout.

I haven't  drawn a plan - its all in my head !  The layout will consist of two levels with a fiddle yard on the straight section in the photo.

I have started the demolition of Not North Road to cannibalise the points for the fiddle yard - I'm trying not to think too much about all the hours spent on the old layout - especially all the wiring !!:cry:





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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 04:25 am
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AUSSIETRAINS
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The " Axe " strikes again.

We will all be keeping an eye on this one.



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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 05:47 pm
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Petermac
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I didn't feel a thing Dave ....................:roll::roll:

What will be different about "Notmutley" ?

What I mean is, what changes will you make as a result of your experiences with "Not North Road" ?  It may help others to avoid those problems before they do all that wiring ................................



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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 08:32 pm
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gdaysydney
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Peter,

A very good question. 

my learning experiences in no particular order

-  there were parts of the layout I could not reach !!  ( original plan was to have scenery in these areas )
-  too much track especially in areas where I had originally planned to have just scenery
-  station area poorly designed ( in the new layout it will be a through station rather than a terminus)
-  but main problem was that the layout just grew from a few ideas and wasn't thought through*
-  plus the design really didn't allow me to make the most out of RR&Co's computer control
- it lacked a fiddle yard although the plan was to have a fiddle yard incorporated within the layout but that failed
- construction will be a bit different - rather than the flat board approach some of the layout will need to be built using elevated track approach.
-  work out were the point motors are needed and design the frame so that there are no timber supports in critical track areas:oops:

The new "train room" is 4.9m by  3m minus the bit in the corner where there is a  .7m by 1m intrusion.  The plan is to build the fiddle yard on the long side of the room (so that I can run some prototypical length trains ) and have the town scene and platforms  directly above.  My idea is that a train would have to make two circuits of the room from the time it left the station to the time it returned.  This will allow me to program RR&Co so that from a station view perspective I can maximise the number of trains that can arrive and depart at regular intervals before they start reappearing.

The remaining three sides will be "countryside"  and will have to accommodate the transition track between levels in both directions ( haven't fully worked out how this will work yet )

"Notmutley" will be the first time I have built a layout that will go around the room - this will present a challenge as I will need to work out the best way to gain access form the doorway.   So a number of challenges:roll:.



* I am not good at planning on paper - so this layout is unlikely to have a plan other than in my head but this time I have given it more thought rather than starting with a flat board and immediately laying track



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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 08:46 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Sounds like a good plan, Dave.

Have you thought about Anyrail?  Once you load the component brand, it's really helpful.

It tells you how to make the best use of your lengths of track and won't let you get your curves and transitions wrong.

It's got some nice graphics as well.

Just a thought.



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Max
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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2012 11:22 am
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wogga
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Very drastic Dave, I'm still putting mine back together. It's he same deign I just made it more resilient for running TC.

The wiring hold now be bomb proof with no mysterious losses of detection.

Hope you get up and running soon.



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Pete.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 07:29 am
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gdaysydney
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MaxSouthOz wrote: Sounds like a good plan, Dave.

Have you thought about Anyrail?  Once you load the component brand, it's really helpful.

It tells you how to make the best use of your lengths of track and won't let you get your curves and transitions wrong.

It's got some nice graphics as well.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the recommendation Max
Downloaded Anyrail and paid for the license  - this is my 3rd attempt !  Extremely rough - no detail - just  the aim of seeing what inclines I am going to need to achieve a space big enough to handle the lower fiddle yard - 
one problem I have identified is that if I use  Tortoise point motors on the top (Station) level I will have to make even more room which will mean steeper inclines - I was hoping to keep make them a maximum of 3% :cry:



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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 08:36 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Good work, Dave.  :thumbs

Do I see crossovers?   :shock:



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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 12:55 pm
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Petermac
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I think they're on different levels Max .................. I hope so !!!!

I think I ought to give Anyrail some money soon ..............  I've used their "trial 50 pieces" several times to get an idea of how it works but there are still some elements I struggle with.  It seems both you and Dave have cracked it .............:roll::roll:




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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 04:38 pm
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Dave, if you use Cobalt in lieu of Tortoise, they don't take as much vertical room.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 05:03 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Unless you turn the tortles on their side.



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Max
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 Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 07:32 pm
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gdaysydney
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Petermac wrote: I think they're on different levels Max .................. I hope so !!!!

I think I ought to give Anyrail some money soon ..............  I've used their "trial 50 pieces" several times to get an idea of how it works but there are still some elements I struggle with.  It seems both you and Dave have cracked it .............:roll::roll:



You are right Pete they will be on different levels -    my Anyrails skills are not up to speed by any stretch of the imagination... I always get torn between the "doing" and the "planning"  hence my  rather "slap dash " effort



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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 12:36 pm
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John Dew
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Hi Dave

Good job you posted the reminder in Not North Road otherwise I would never have found you!

I am afraid this is rather negative but I dont believe the boards are made yet?

From an RR&Co perspective the key element I would do differently is the organisation of the entrance/exit to the station and fiddle yard to avoid potential bottlenecks (Pete Wogga and Brian PR1 have had the same experience) the ability to run a lot of trains at once which RR&Co can do perfectly well can be limited by choke points so I have to do a lot of workarounds which could have been avoided if I had known a bit more about RR&co when I started

You can never have too big a fiddle yard (unless it is at a lower level and you cant access the far tracks)  and you need to be able to see and access the fiddle yard to check that the stop and brake markers are correctly positioned

As you know Granby IIIs fiddle yard is at layout level but concealed by low profile terraced housing......when I am testing RR&Co schedules these housing modules have to be temporarily removed........knowing what I know now I think I would have done it differently......certainly more space between the tracks.....more flexible movement between the tracks and easy access at all times.

The generally accepted grade ratio is 1:40 (1:30 in extremis) and that doesnt take into account curves. 3% is pretty close to max.........how much clearance are you working on? 4" is not really enough and that means a 10' gradient

 I am afraid I have to say that, if at all possible, one should avoid lower level fiddle yards

I do hope hope you dont see these remarks as totally negative......they are based on my own sad experiences

Kind Regards

 



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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 01:05 am
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gdaysydney
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Thanks John for the comments all of which are taken positively.:thumbs

I am currently building the supporting frames around the room so no boards or track have been laid as yet so your comments and suggestions are timely.

Based on your comments I will work on a revised plan that has the fiddle yard on the top level - this will leave me plenty of room on the lower level including a length for RR&Co speed profiling.


You mention bottlenecks at the throat of the station - this time I am planning on a through station rather than the terminus I had before -  I'll post a RR&Co  layout of the station before I commence the build so that you can give be the benefit of the collective wisdom
:cheers



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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 01:25 am
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gdaysydney
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John - first draft of Station layout based on your comments



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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 02:05 am
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gdaysydney
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Sol wrote: Dave, if you use Cobalt in lieu of Tortoise, they don't take as much vertical room.
Hi Sol,  sorry I missed your post.

Thanks for the recommendation - my problem is that I have 18 Tortoise(s)  which I was hoping to use rather than buying new kit - that said  would you say the Cobalts  would take up half the room of a Tortoise?



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Dave
Notmutley
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 02:07 am
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gdaysydney
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MaxSouthOz wrote: Unless you turn the tortles on their side.

I have seen this done somewhere - I'm guessing you need to purchase adapters ..

Which reminds me can you buy spare wires for the Tortoise? or will any piano wire do the job?



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Dave
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 02:11 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Hi Dave

I replaced all of the wires on mine with 1/16" piano wire.

You don't need adaptors to turn them on their side.

It actually enhances their operation by giving them greater leverage.

I'll dig out the photos.








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Max
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 02:27 am
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gdaysydney
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Thanks Max - how did you attach them ? is there a way of doing it so that in need you can easily remove them ?

Hang on - I think I can answer my own question - looking again at the photo it looks like you have made a template that the Tortoise is glued to. The template is then screwed in place - very nifty



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Dave
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 02:34 am
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MaxSouthOz
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They're glued on with PVA, Dave.  The four holes in the board help to pre-locate them on top.  Drill 4 x 1/16" holes through the base board with the motor sitting on top with the wire through the throw bar in the turnout.

Then you can line the board up underneath quite easily.  If you need to remove them, just take the four screws out, and it will drop out.

I hope that makes sense.  :roll:



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