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Scalescenes Large Overall Roof......for Granby - Scalescenes Building Kits. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17th, 2011 06:21 pm
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John Dew
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Ok after consuming my bacon butty I will try again:

Thanks DD and Peter glad you like it so far

Petermac wrote:
Did you find all that plasticard "beading" and "flipping" fiddly or is it just time consuming ?  Whilst time consuming, I have always (almost !!) found these offerings from John Wiffen great fun to build.  Are you finding the same ?

It is a bit fiddly but it is part of the fun. With all the cutting out and laminating etc one feels much more involved with the building process than one does assembling a Metcalfe Kit (useful though they are).

I have found it very encouraging that everything John Whiffen says actually happens......it looks super complicated and littered with pitfalls but if you follow the instructions slowly and carefully it all fits into place

Although I havent had to yet (touch wood) it is reassuring to know you can print another sheet!

It's a pity you let the cat out of the bag re the "photoshopping" - I'm now wondering if Granby is in fact just like your cutting mat but "Photoshopped" to make it look such a wonderful layout ..............:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Granby is supposed to look like my cutting mat.......well worn and grimy:lol::lol:

I only scratch the surface with photoshop....I should try more.....auto smartfix means click a button and generally the picture gets brighter
Have you come up with any ideas about following the platform curve at the far end ?  Please give this some thought because I would like to use this kit on my (proposed) curved station. ;-) 
The plan is to let the far track curve under the roof....my idea is to attach a couple of arches without columns to a girder (probably a piece of rail now:lol:) that will span the track

However now that I understand the construction better it might be possible to make the structure curved if you positioned the arches like slices of cake......the support walls could be scratch built of layers of card in a similar fasion to the way John curves the roof itself 
Actually, I've just realised I have quite a number of "proposed" items on my drawing board ...........:oops::oops:,  I really must try to put the odd one into practice before I meet my maker.
Know the feeling....my problem I start the ideas so the layout is littered with half finished projects:sad:

That was a wonderfully evocative description of Seccotine by the way.....brought it all back to me



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 Posted: Sat Dec 17th, 2011 09:39 pm
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John Dew wrote: Know the feeling....my problem I start the ideas so the layout is littered with half finished projects:sad:
 

and that John, is what modelling is all about - many ideas and half finished ones at that :mutley



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2012 05:02 am
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John Dew
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At first sight, apart from the additional spice jars, not a lot has happened since  before Christmas.

Having added a third module, the support walls are now 30"  (750 mm) long and I can no longer use cookery books to support them hence the additional spice jars.



I thought it would be easier to detail the walls with travel posters etc before I glued in the arches. At  3 1/4 " centres there will not be a lot of room available. 



The far wall will be supported by, and straddle the third platform at Granby. The near wall faces on to the street which will eventually lead up to the station building...




The station signs, Granby Junction flanked by LMS (it is a joint line!) and GWR may seem a little over the top but they are an almost exact replica of the signs at Liverpool Central (actually LMS and LNER) in a photograph that John Flann kindly sent me.

This wall, facing on to a street, will not be on a platform so it will be be supported by a 4' wall to bring it up to height.

This is hardly adequate to prevent access to the line immediately behind.




 
The plan is to close the gaps with spare fencing (mostly gates) from the Ratio Spear point fencing kit. I realise that this is a bit unlikely in 1947.......by then all wrought iron had long since been commandeered for the war effort.............maybe I can plead elfnsafety even in those days.......so one down eight to go

Next to the fence you can see the pillar which conceals the join where two modules are butt jointed. Until an arch is glued on the other side this, and the coping stone at the top, are the only means of keeping the two modules together......a tad flimsy and you have to handle carefully.

This is the reverse side......I have only done minimal detailing as it will require extreme gymnastics to see once the roof is in place.




Now to the far wall



We have often commented about the cruelty of the camera......and that is certainly the case with the next shots, fortunately they will normally be viewed about 3' away through the roof.




The station signs were printed on Word and framed with Plastic Strip.....probably not really necessary but it does add a bit of depth.

I believe the wording is correct for a GWR Junction......Cynwyd.....refers to the branch and there was in fact a Joint line between Chester and Warrington.

The off set is to allow for the Arches. You can see how difficult it was to position the adverts without obscuring all the architectural detail.




I made the GWR Travel Posters in three parts......a Word Header, Tiny Signs and Strip Frame. I gave up on the frame insert for the smaller poster

The adverts are from various sources.....Tiny Signs (almost 20 years old) a Wills or Peco kit (equally old) and signs from a website that Doug (Dooferdog) kindly showed me a year ago or so. 


The next shot shows the inside join before the Arch is glued in




I enjoyed putting in the News of the World ad!

I have spent a lot of time thinking about lighting (cosmetic). I have a lot of Mike Models Lamp Posts which will populate the platforms and station concourse but the platform here is too narrow.

I suppose in real life they could have been suspended from horizontal support girders......but there aren't any on this structure.

I looked around for wall lamps but they were all either too modern, too big or too expensive

This is my first attempt at a scratch build.....one down eight to go!





The source of the lampholder and shade is probably fairly obvious......but the supporting bracket?

A pint to the first guy to guess the source 





 



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2012 05:25 am
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It's all looking great, John.  I'm glad my soap company got a mention.  :lol:

No idea about the lamp brackets, but the assemblies look the goods.

It's really amazing.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2012 08:28 am
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Petermac
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MaxSouthOz wrote: .................................  I'm glad my soap company got a mention.  :lol:

...................................

:mutley:mutley

It's looking brilliant john.  What a wealth of architectural detail there is. :thumbs  As you rightly say, one you get some length into these walls, they can become a tad delicate.  It may be impractical, but could you stagger the joints on each layer of card so that the laminations bind the whole thing together ?  As I haven't seen the kit, I don't know if that's possible - also, it might require a 6ft workbench !!!

The wall lamp looks great - as for "how you did it" - like Max, I don't know but would guess some possibilities are:  for the base moulding, a "flattened" mapping pin and for the bracket, plasticard or even cardboard.  There is a company in York (UK) who supply these things laser cut from card but they're not cheap !!!

I'm really enjoying watching this. :cheers



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 Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2012 08:47 am
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..deffo worth making 'frames' for the notice boards, a good idea which I will be copying, thank you, often the tailor-made ones are the wrong size. That happened in real life too, a photo of Wallingford shows a 4ft wide notice board fixed on a 3ft wide pillar, if you modelled it someone would doubtless 'tut-tut'!

Clearly a great deal of planning and thought has gone into the spacing and layout, and like everyone else I'm enjoying this build.

Doug



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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2012 04:12 am
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John Dew
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Petermac wrote:  As you rightly say, one you get some length into these walls, they can become a tad delicate.  It may be impractical, but could you stagger the joints on each layer of card so that the laminations bind the whole thing together ?  As I haven't seen the kit, I don't know if that's possible - !

Not really......you print out two copies of a 250mm module mount them on card cut out the apertures and then glue them together making quite a substantial 2 ply 4mm thick wall. The weakness isjust at the join. I mounted two modules on the same card and that helped......given hindsight I should have done the third as well......the fourth I couldnt do because I am still undecided how to proceed at the station end

Once an arch with its 8mm (5 ply 3 x 2mm and 2 x 1mm) laminated column is glued on to the join all will be well.....its just the handling during construction that creates unease.

also, it might require a 6ft workbench !!

Which is why you get all these kitchen shots!
The wall lamp looks great - as for "how you did it" - like Max, I don't know but would guess some possibilities are:  for the base moulding, a "flattened" mapping pin and for the bracket, plasticard or even cardboard. 

All will be revealed shortly but it does look as though I can discontinue my research with Paypal into transferring the cost of a pint in Canadian Funds into either Euros or Australian Dollars;-)  

 





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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2012 05:30 am
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John Dew wrote: All will be revealed shortly but it does look as though I can discontinue my research with Paypal into transferring the cost of a pint in Canadian Funds into either Euros or Australian Dollars;-)  

 




We all know how delicate the finances of Canada are, so we would NOT want to have such funds transferred out of Canada so we are keeping "mum" on how/what the lamp & bracket are made from. :mutley



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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2012 07:02 am
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John Dew
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:mutley

You must be thinking of the Euro Ron..............there is only 3 cents between Can$ and Aus$.........a mere nothing when Canadian Beer is involved



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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2012 07:06 am
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gastwo
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Ahhh, Canadian Beer!
Can you still get O'keefes Old Stock?

Love the lamps.
Shaun.

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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2012 08:11 am
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Looking Excellent! John , well done Indeed :doublethumb

 

Bet your printer is in need of a rest though! :mutley

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 Posted: Mon Jan 9th, 2012 07:59 pm
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John that really is a work of art and amazing what you can do with a few bits of paper and card backing.  I shall look forward to seeing the finished product in place and no doubt your wife will be pleased to get all her kitchen bits and bobs back where they belong.

Those large span roofs really are magnificent and I recall seeing an etched kit once upon a time of Bath Green Park, but even that one has been eclipsed by this guy who is building a model of Liverpool, Lime Street.

I have no idea how guys can do this sort of stuff....See page 11.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33141-lime-street-station/page__st__250

 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 11th, 2012 04:17 am
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John Dew
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Thanks for all the kind comments guys. A particular thank you to Gordon for the Lime St link.......I come from Liverpool so I am very familiar with the station.........what a fantastic model........I particularly liked the the guy apologising that the storage cases had not yet been varnished! 

Old Stock is still available but the prize if it had been awarded would have been a 6 pack of Bowen Island Pale Ale (one of the many micro brereies round here)



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 Posted: Wed Jan 11th, 2012 08:19 am
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Petermac
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Could the boss supporting the bracket be an inverted air-gun pellet or even a pawn from a small travel chess set (too big I think) ?...........:hmm

I maintain the bracket itself is plastic strip or maybe matchsticks...............:cheers



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 Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2012 01:22 am
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John Dew
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Sorry guys........no beer

So this is where the lights came from:

The lamp shades came from a Ratio kit I have had for years......painted but never used...........not sure if they still make them



I thought of butchering the lamp posts, above, to get brackets but decided they would be too flimsy




This is a sprue from the Wills Platform Canopy Kit for support pillars. They must have included a lot of spares because I built a long canopy for Granby II and these, and more, are untouched 




Chop the base off a half pillar. Cut the bracket in two and join the two halves back to back.

Cut a little notch at the end to receive the lamp shade




Two coats of GWR dark stone and reach for the super glue




And here they all lined up ready to go. In the background the other wall now has all the openings fenced off.

The lighting is probably a bit over the top because I am not sure how much will be visible but I think it does add a dimension to the wall.

So tomorrow I can start glueing the arches in place


 



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 Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2012 01:32 am
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Very clever.  I wouldn't have guessed it in a million years.

Lucky I've plenty of beer in the fridge next to my layout.  :cool:



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 Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2012 08:24 am
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Ingenious John. :thumbs

I presume the plastic in the Wills kit is fairly easy to cut - i.e. a "poly" type plastic rather than a styrene type ...........:roll:

I must see if that canopy support kit is still available - I'll need some of those and looking at the cast type, the cost is prohibitive.

I don't think you've overdone the lighting at all - fewer would have been much more difficult to site and, being above each opening, you can't miss them, even if they are inside. Symmetry was a great thing with the Victorians. :cheers



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 Posted: Sat Jan 14th, 2012 07:53 pm
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John Dew
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Both bracket and pillar were surprisingly easy to cut Peter. I am sure they are still available....it is one of Wills staple lines.

Doreen has her kitchen back.......the whole edifice is now in the railway room ready for actually putting the components together




9 arches in position. It took longer than I expected because I was paranoid about ensuring the base columns were at right angles to both the support walls.......I kept working out how much an error of 1/16" at one end would translate into at the other end...........any way all done and I only knocked one lamp off!

Although the base columns are securely glued to the support walls there is a huge amount of flex on the arches still. I am assuming (trusting even) that the roof panels will make everything more rigid

The roof comes in 4 parts




Top right is the transparent glazing that is bent to about 120o and straddles the top of the arch. The lower curved section of the roof consist of a 3 core sandwich

The first element, top left, is the inner roof or ceiling, if you will, that passengers would see looking up from the platform it is printed on thin card.........after that is in place the dotted red lines on the medium board (bottom left) are scored to allow it to curve over the arch and the top layer (bottom right) is glued and wrapped round it

First job was to fix the inner roof




 The card is at the top end of John Whiffen's recommended weight scale for light card........but it was the heaviest I could get here. You can see how flexible it is and I am a tad worried it will be too light.

My major concern was ensuring that it was securely glued to the arches and that I left an even 2mm on the last arch ready for the next sheet. Fortunately I had done a lot of dry fitting before I glued the arches in.......the instructions are primarily designed for making one module and are silent about stuff like this.

I have to say this is the first time during the project that things got a bit fraught......All the imperfections in my freehand curved cutting were exposed......the arches were bending back and forth.....the paper was bending in the opposite direction and there was glue everywhere.:roll::roll:

Fortunately, as you can see, the inner roof is designed to look grubby so I felt a few extra marks made by PVA would do no harm.

So here is the first module with the inner roof attached.......    

 

  I am going to watch the soccer and let that thorougly dry before I attach the next two 

 

 



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 Posted: Sat Jan 14th, 2012 08:31 pm
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It's a fascinating build, John.  I often sit and look at your photos to try to get my head around how the roof frames don't push the walls over in the prototype.  I can see it, but it's nice to contemplate how it actually works in "real life."

I can understand how the orginal designer may have been tempted to tie the bottoms of the frames together - not necessary, of course; but instinctively it must have been hard to resist.

I'm really enjoying this thread.  Thank you.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Sun Jan 15th, 2012 03:43 am
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John Dew
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Thanks Max.......I am glad you are enjoying it.......its a lot of fun sharing the build with others.

John Whiffen is, I am quickly learning, a brilliant designer. Its a very interesting exercise in cardboard engineering. The columns at the base of each arch are remarkably solid made up as they from a 8mm 5 ply laminate. I remember now from my house refurbishing days just how strong laminates can be. Once they are firmly glued to another surface they are very stable......the issue is the whip lash effect you get from the remaining 80% of unsecured  4 mm 3 ply arch. I believe the roof panels will provide the horizontal tie to do this.......I will find out tomorrow:roll:



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