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| Scalescenes Large Overall Roof......for Granby - Scalescenes Building Kits. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club | ||||||||||
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John Dew Full Member 
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I have a lot of Metcalfe Kits on Granby but I have always shied away from Scalescenes........a combination of doubts about my skill level and the ability of my printer. Christmas came early in Vancouver and I am now the proud owner of an all singing/dancing/wireless laser printer. So with one doubt eliminated there remains the skill factor. This will be another of my warts and all threads. As an absolute novice in this area I am not quite sure why I decided that my first project should be anything quite as ambitious as this http://www.scalescenes.com/products/R005a-Large-Overall-Roof to be followed by this http://www.scalescenes.com/products/R005-Large-Station-Building but I have (almost) reached the stage at Granby where I need to think about the Station Buildings.......so nothing venture nothing gain. The roof itself is quite substantial.......from track bed it will be 8" (205mm) high with a span of 16 3/4" (425 mm) which happily will cover the three bays and two main lines at Granby........there is a bit of an issue at one end where the main line curves away.......but that is some months away! Lengthwise the roof is constructed in 9 7/8" (250 mm) modules......I am planning on 4 modules so that the roof when completed will be 39 1/2" (1 m) long The roof is supported by 4 arches per module so I guess I am going to have to produce 16 of them  Each arch is made up of two decorative outer arches mounted on 1 mm card (on the left above) which will sandwich an inner arch mounted on 2mm card. You can see the first problem......The kits are designed for UK A4 paper which is slightly larger than the 8 1/2 x 11 which North Americans call A4.......you can see I have lost a bit of the printing at the extremities ......(The instructions are adamant about not re sizing)......not the end of the world......I hope it will hardly be evident when the roof is on The inner arch comes in three parts.....which will be glued on to one of the outer arches   Quite ingenious really   It takes forever cutting through the card and I suspect the biggest cost of this project will be Exacto Blades Cutting the free hand curves of the outer arches is somewhat nerve racking and not recommended after a glass (or two) of wine 16 arches.....only 32 outer arches to cut.....super! The arches are fixed to support walls, there are a couple of alternatives in the PDF, or to one of the station buildings  The wall printout is mounted on 2mm card ......there are two 250 mm modules here on one piece of card......I havent made up my mind what the other 500mm of wall will be right now  The apertures are cut out (more exacto blades) and then mounted back to back creating a robust 4mm support wall The cut vertical edges of the apertures are concealed by a glue and wrap trim  One down.....fifteen to go...... ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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Stubby47 Welsh exile 
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That's a great start to a major project. Hope it continues to go as well.
____________________ Stubby47's Model Buildings - http://www.styubby47.co.uk All photos I post are ©Stu Hilton, but are free for use by anyone. The Chacewater to Newquay Railway: Shepherds Halt, Shepherds Station, The Treamble Branch |
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MaxSouthOz Admin 
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Wow, John! Talk about in at the deep end. 
____________________ Max Port Elderley |
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Petermac Moderator 
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A great start John although I'm surprised you went for this as a first - still, I suppose the deep end is as good a place as any to start .........  It's an interesting point about the paper size. I wonder if John (Wiffen) has had this problem before. You say "no scaling" - whilst that's true, my downloads always seem to come in at 103% so I have to set the printer to 100%. I presume yours is printing at 100% and not more ..........  Most of the kits I've built were time, card, paper, ink and blade consuming and, at times, a little tedious, but not difficult. I think they're extremely well designed. Looking forward to watching it develop - this kit is on my list.  Bon courage mon brave !!! ____________________ 'Petermac |
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John Dew Full Member
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Thanks again Guys for the encouraging words.......to be honest I am rsther surprised myself Peter Having taken a little time off from my day job I am now the proud owner of not one but four arches all trimmed and finished:  There will be an arch with a glazed facade at the right hand end and I now believe I will only need one arch in the centre where the two modules are joined......thus I still need to build 2 more conventional arches plus an end arch to complete the roof supports for these two modules  Actually I have built five arches  . Geometry and logic are not particular strong points of mine. When John Whiffen of Scalescenes specifies card thickness he adds an "encouraging" footnote to the effect that tolerances have been built in. Taking him at his word, in the same way one does with Jamie Oliver's "add a glug or two of olive oil", I was a little too relaxed with my choice of mounting board........a moments reflection should have made me realise that when he specifies a sandwich of three cards totalling in width 5mm and supplies a printed cover for the cut ends that is 5 mm wide.....then tolerances are pretty minimal.3mm doesnt work and is also rather flimsy The 5mm jobs are remarkably robust.......this next shot shows some of the detail  . The column at the base is actually 9 mm wide because you laminate an additional 2 mm column on either side which I imagine (and trust) will provide a very stable anchoring point to the support walls. You can see the 5mm covering trim on the underside of the arch.......and readily appreciate why it didnt work too well on a 3mm arch  The next step is to produce the end arch which, with its glazed facade, has the potential for all manner of problems. Meantime I would appreciate either advice or a convincing argument in regard to the placing of the arches. The instructions are extremely flexible. What logic I have tells me that, in real life, from an engineering perspective each arch would be mounted in the centre of the support wall. I would prefer not to do this because then I do not have enough space for Station Signs. Adverts will have to be all portrait rather than landscape.....also there will be no room for benches.......there isnt a lot of width available on the supporting platform I am pretty committed to the concept of alternating the positions in the way that I have roughly set them up above......the end arch has to be at the very end by the way...........any reassurance that this will not look totally unrealistic would be appreciated ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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MaxSouthOz Admin
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A few questions, if I may John . . . 1. Whatever possessed you? 2. What day job? I thought you had retired. 3. Have you gone completely mad?  seriously; it's going to be a real cracker. Watching with interest. ____________________ Max Port Elderley |
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Petermac Moderator
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I'm with Max here John................. Having said that, it really is looking great. The "tolerence" issues you have encountered are not at all uncommon - don't ask how I know !!! I actually largely gave up on Doug's corn flakes because I found the time spent and glue cost of laminating the cards to achieve the required thickness outweighed the cost of buying card "for the job". I was over in UK and purchased a sizeable pack of both 1mm and 2mm "grey" card all delivered for around £30 - enough to build half London I'd guess. Regarding the placing of the arches, it really doesn't matter where you put them. In "engineering" terms, they're free standing steel (in fact, probably cast iron) structures which have been clad by an outer wall. The detail shows the rivets going down to the ground so they're not supported by the wall at all - rather the other way round. If I were building it, and didn't want the arch in the middle of the walling, I'd probably put it at the edge of each opening for aesthetic reasons. It would probably look better suggesting it's part of the opening rather than still having a stub wall on one side. You could actually put them bang in the middle of where the openings are, having bricked up each alternate opening .......... . That would give you an equal sized "panel" for advertising etc. on each side of every alternate arch (or so ....). I hope that makes sense to you - a bit difficult to explain and I can't draw ............I'm not sure because I can't actually judge the balance of them from the photos. As you rightly say, the outer ones at least have to go at the outer edge so just place the others to obtain a "balance". Of course in practical terms, you probably wouldn't have all those openings anyway. Some would be "bricked up" but would still be there in outline to keep everything "looking right". They would have built a bevel edge around the bricked up sections at about waist height - "plain" boring brickwork didn't sit well with Victorian architects and there was always some form of "decoration" to break up a large expanse of bricks (or stones). In this case, they would probably have continued the existing stone "chair rail" through the filled in sections and recessed the panels slightly. ____________________ 'Petermac |
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Kevr Member 
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Coming along nicely John, at first i thought the 'Scalescenes' kits would look 'flat' but they have a suprising amount of depth and detail to them. Can the span of the arches be changed or are they a fixed width ?. i.e for covering more or less platforms. ____________________ 'Kev |
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ddolfelin Straight man to the stars. 
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"a convincing argument in regard to the placing of the arches" Not having been blessed with your patience, John, I know where I'd put them but I have every confidence that you'll win the day. ____________________ http://dddioramas.webs.com/ 11 + 2 = 12 + 1 |
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John Dew Full Member
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MaxSouthOz wrote: A few questions, if I may John . . . Still working on that.......second childhood? 2. What day job? I thought you had retired. There were some clues....the locale, the cookery book and spice jars and the Jamie Oliver reference.....on the days Doreen works I do the cooking
No Comment Nevertheless thank you for the kind words  Thanks for your long post Peter it was very helpful. I now have a much clearer idea of what is going on. I like the idea of having each arch positioned to the right of each wall opening in line with the facade arch position......so I will go down that route except where the modules join.... then I have to put them in the centre to both hide and support the joint. Your point about the openings being bricked up are extremely valid and would no doubt be the case on the prototype......but I want to keep an eye on the trains!! ........also,one of the walls is actually centred on a platform which is another reason to keep the openings. Like you I finished up buying the 1mm (or North American equivalent) card from an Art Shop. It undoubtedly made a big difference...... having the right dimensions......it was also easier to cut! DD.....you flatter me......my lack of patience is probably the principal delay factor in my modelling  Kev......The arches are fixed and, I suspect, an integral part of the design. A braver and more skilled man than I could attempt to modify them but the problem would be the impact it would have on ecery component down the line I actually have a width issue at the end where the track curves away but I am not proposing to cut or extend the arches instead I will modify the support wall Edited to include my answer to Kev ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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Petermac Moderator
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I hadn't realised this was going to be a double span roof John - that will really be something to see. I also take your point about wanting to see the trains - you could probably fill in some of the openings on the rear wall - at least that would give you somewhere to put the advertising signs etc. Obviously the centre wall will need all the openings it can get  ____________________ 'Petermac |
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John Dew Full Member
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Good Morning Peter....You are up very early ....I am just sipping a malt and contemplating bed! I am afraid I have mislead you....... it will be a single span.......  As we look at it the right hand support wall will be at the extreme right hand edge of the baseboard (actually very extreme I now know I will have to add a 1/2" support tab.)............it will then span the first two platforms and the support wall on the left hand side will be in the middle of the third platform......thus the three passenger bays will be covered as will the up and down through lines but the relief line (the one on the left with the set track guide) will not but I will be using it for some local passenger traffic from the south hence the need to suggest a platform. There is an issue where it curves away with positioning the last two arches but I have the semblance of a cunning plan Hope that helps? My next post on Granby should make it clearer because I have now finished the platforms. and virtually all the track in the station area Kind Regards ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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phill Hello 
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Well you have got the patients of a saint building this. I lose mine on just opening the package  .Great build thus far thou. Phill |
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John Dew Full Member
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Thanks Phil...glad you like it so far So now on to the Glazed end facade: First I had to print out the facade on a transparency. This caused a fair amount of tension as there were an amazing number of health warnings regarding my lovely new printer and the terrible things that could happen if I used the wrong paper  In the event I could only buy paper that worked with an inkjet on one side and laser on the other......so then I had to go through all the trauma of making sure I had loaded the paper the right way up  In the event all was well and the slightly weathered effect created by the ink jet side is quite pleasing:  Cutting out was relatively easy because by now I had realised that slight errors will be concealed by overlays This shot does show how flimsy the transparency is.  Next cut out the glazing bars.....a somewhat posed shot on a totally unrealistic work surface (the state of the cutting mat is a better indication of how I normally work)  John Whiffen suggests, as an option, that you add Evergreen (or similar) plastic strip to the glazing. Personally I think it is essential to add a degree of rigidity to the transparency.......I added .5 mm strip which gives a little depth and stabilises the structure somewhat  However.....the instructions dont make it clear that the strips then have to be cut to size. As you can see the the strips overlap which is fine if you are just using paper but would create a lot of fret with plasticard added Fortunately I have learned to take it very slowly and do lots of dry fits so that was one trap I avoided. You glaze one side (while this was going on I held together the two halves with masking tape).....then you flip it (John Whiffens words  )......a somewhat tense moment.....and do the other side Once the glazing is complete you fix outer arches and a horizontal support on one side......"flip it" over again and fix a three part inner arch capped with the other outer arch. During all this the structure tends to flap around like a badly trimmed spinnaker and when I do the second I think I will strenghen the horizontal support with plasticard. However it was a fascinating exercise in cardboard engineering......each overlay and cover strip incrementally added to the rigidity.........and finally I finished with this.........   The clearance looks quite low but one has to remember the walls will be mounted on the platforms  Here is a shot of the end detail including the substantial (4 x 2 mm laminated) end columns  Normally I use photoshop to smart fix my photos but I rather like this one as it is......even with the spice jars  Next job is to work out how to detail the support walls. ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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Petermac Moderator
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This is looking like a very impressive structure John. Did you find all that plasticard "beading" and "flipping" fiddly or is it just time consuming ? Whilst time consuming, I have always (almost !!) found these offerings from John Wiffen great fun to build. Are you finding the same ? As you say, when you start laminating the layers, it's amazing just how strong cardboard becomes. It's a pity you let the cat out of the bag re the "photoshopping" - I'm now wondering if Granby is in fact just like your cutting mat but "Photoshopped" to make it look such a wonderful layout .............. Have you come up with any ideas about following the platform curve at the far end ? Please give this some thought because I would like to use this kit on my (proposed) curved station. Actually, I've just realised I have quite a number of "proposed" items on my drawing board ..........., I really must try to put the odd one into practice before I meet my maker.____________________ 'Petermac |
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Chubber Casseroled Badger 
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Quite an ambitious job for card, nice work . The late J.Ahearn would have used a length of rail along the bottom, and prior to gluing it with 'Secotine' would have shellacked the card. Does anyone else remember Secotine? I remember mistakenly using it to build a balsa-wood aeroplane, having covered it with tissue paper I sprayed it with water to shrink the covering, and most of the Secotine went soft and it collapsed.....It smelt strongly of fish, I recall. Doug ____________________ 'You may share the labours of the great, but you will not share the spoil...' Aesop's Fables "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin In the land of the slap-dash and implausible, mediocrity is king |
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ddolfelin Straight man to the stars.
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Wonderful result! I remember the name, Doug. Never used it though. Did they make any which smelled like Shiraz? ____________________ http://dddioramas.webs.com/ 11 + 2 = 12 + 1 |
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Petermac Moderator
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I certainly remember Seccotine. The "UHU" of it's day and every household probably had a tube - certainly we did !! If memory serves me right, it was a thickish brown glue in a soft metal tube - a bit like malt but thicker - with a paper wrapper but had a disgusting smell !! It would stick most things in the pre-plastic days of yore ............. As with the old toothpaste tubes, those metal tubes were great because you could roll them up to use all but the very last drop of the contents.____________________ 'Petermac |
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John Dew Full Member
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dooferdog wrote: Quite an ambitious job for card, nice work Brilliant Doug......I think I can retrofit a piece of rail.....I have some code 75 so rail to rail I may be able to make a passable girder. I do remember Secotine and its distinctive odour.....horrible stringy stuff.....I vaguely remember making a dreadful (unfinished) model of Puffing Billy Kind Regards from Vancouver ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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John Dew Full Member
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Thats weird I wrote a long post answering all your points Peter and it has just disappeared ......I have a feeling I had two tabs open for cutting and pasting the quotes and must have nuked the wrong one...........grrrrrr I will start again after breakfast. ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
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