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RR&Co with a Heljan DCC Turntable - RR & Co - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Wed May 11th, 2011 09:59 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks for all this, Pete.  It looks like a lot of work, but it will be worth it.  :thumbs

The square one looks like a traverser.  I don't know if you have them in the UK, but they are around in the US and probably Europe.



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 Posted: Wed May 11th, 2011 10:32 pm
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wogga
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Hi Max, Heljan do a DCC transfer table which i guess is the same thing as a transverser. No expert here but i am sure during my research that the GWR used them.

http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/prodlist.aspx?ManID=27&PrTyID=25&ScID=4

I can't contribute much Max but of i can help prevent any other poor soul hours of frustration i will:mutley



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 Posted: Wed May 11th, 2011 10:53 pm
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John Dew
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That looks great Pete........well done that man

Nothing more satisfying than one click and it all goes as planned:brickwall

What is the 180o conundrum? 

 I will be inyerested to hear what Juergen has to say.......its bizarre he doesnt support this TT.......Walthers sell the identical model rebranded as well! 

One of my summer projects is to finish editing and start indexing the tutorial.............I assume I can put your posts in there with a suitable acknowledgement?

:cheers



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 Posted: Wed May 11th, 2011 11:20 pm
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wogga
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Thanks John, by all means i will be honoured to have my stuff in the tutorial. I had a response from Juergen which basically said well done looks like you have cracked it carry on. I think we need some your neighbours to kick off before he will put any time into it. An of couse are Deutsche friends will only buy Deutsche, rather like cars, so i can't see many questions their side of the RR&co forum.

The 180 conundrum i need some time to cover it. i want to have a bit more time to play but i shall leave you with this to ponder!

I can have sched that drives a loco on to the TT, in the list in finish ops i can make TT operate the bridge and turn to a track thru 180 and its cracked.

Now should i run that sched again either after or later in day to a timetable, if the bridge position is still the position it was left in, the loco will go on the bridge as planned but the command in the list won't work because the bridge is already in the position you want to send it to.

I could make every sched unique but can you imagine working that out! This is the conundrum.

In the case of a Marklin all those little TT commands in elements will work because the Marklin has an address that looks as if it will turn the TT through 180 regardless of its current position easy peasy. No experiance of a Markin just what i picked up in manual and the help tabs in TC.

JD, Geoff, Max wine jazz beer whatever you need thinking caps on, you have my YRR file.



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 Posted: Wed May 11th, 2011 11:40 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks for including me, Pete.  I'm not sure how much help I'll be.  I'm still working out how to make a train.  :mutley



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 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 09:55 am
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Geoff R
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wogga wrote: The 180 conundrum i need some time to cover it. i want to have a bit more time to play but i shall leave you with this to ponder!

I can have sched that drives a loco on to the TT, in the list in finish ops i can make TT operate the bridge and turn to a track thru 180 and its cracked.

Now should i run that sched again either after or later in day to a timetable, if the bridge position is still the position it was left in, the loco will go on the bridge as planned but the command in the list won't work because the bridge is already in the position you want to send it to.

I could make every sched unique but can you imagine working that out! This is the conundrum.

Is it possible to set a flag at the end of the 180 turn which indicates the bridge is at 180 and not 0. Then have just two alternate schedules which get called from a single schedule dependent on the state of the flag?

Alternatively, you could always turn the bridge back through 180 after the loco using it has departed. In that way, the bridge is always at 0 when a loco arrives.

 

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 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 03:30 pm
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John Dew
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Hi Pete

My initial reaction is the same as Geoff's.......use an On Off TC switch as memory (off posn 0   on posn 180 o) then use the switch as a condition to run one of two schedules.

I will try and look at the files later this morning...........I assume the TT works with the sim?

PS I re-checked the Walthers site and their DCC TT (same as Heljan) is still not available....... they rejected the test shipment because it didnt perform as specified............anticipated delivery date July 2011.  I wonder if it is just the shell that is the same as Heljan but with different electronics......or?????

 

 



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 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 06:48 pm
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John Dew
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Pete

I have downloaded the file.

Can you help me out? Where in the schedule FY3 via TT to Eng 1 do you initiate the turntable movement?

 



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 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 06:54 pm
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wogga
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Geoff your second option had occured to me, flagmen i have a lot to learn about the benefits of those buddies. I knew it wouldn't be unsurmountable with TC is anything impossible? cheers Geoff it gives me something to try and fiddle with.

John yes hopefully everything should run fine including the TT in the sim. I use sim quite a lot because i do a lot of experiemnting on my laptop either in the hotel or in the living room sat with the boss while she watches the soaps.

Walther think it has a problem? it would be nice to know what it is, i could be cynical and say it might be a bit too technical for our independant ex memebers of the Commonwealth, but i won't:mutley



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 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 09:32 pm
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wogga
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John Dew wrote: Pete

I have downloaded the file.

Can you help me out? Where in the schedule FY3 via TT to Eng 1 do you initiate the turntable movement?

 


Sorry John, our posts must of crossed. You don't, start the sched as normal and the Fairburn should tootle along onto the TT and the TT operates.

But then again i bet you are examining the schedule, well thats just it you don't need to do anything. i have only added the TT bridge as a block in schedule i,e, the block between TT Approach and Engine Two block and TC does the rest.



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 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 10:32 pm
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Geoff R
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Well Pete, I think that is just brilliant. I have re-run the schedule several times now and it is magic. Having TC set the turnouts and signals is one thing, but operating the TT without any command, just the route in and out is, as I said, pure magic. I love it. Maybe I might be tempted to buy it after all. I must see if Silver can operate the TT in the same way! (I also need to build a suitable interface for my old manual Heljan:roll:

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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 12:07 am
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John Dew
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wogga wrote:
Sorry John, our posts must of crossed. You don't, start the sched as normal and the Fairburn should tootle along onto the TT and the TT operates.

But then again i bet you are examining the schedule, well thats just it you don't need to do anything. i have only added the TT bridge as a block in schedule i,e, the block between TT Approach and Engine Two block and TC does the rest.


Wow that is amazing...........I didnt know TC could do that. You are right I started the schedule watched as it did its bit and then spent forever trying to work out how you did it

My solution would have been two schedules with the TT turning as an operation 

I guess the 180o problem remains? Is there an issue with the TT always turning back to the approach block? If not initiate that as an operation at the end of every schedule

 

 

 



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 12:44 am
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John Dew
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Geoff R wrote: Well Pete, I think that is just brilliant. I have re-run the schedule several times now and it is magic. Having TC set the turnouts and signals is one thing, but operating the TT without any command, just the route in and out is, as I said, pure magic. I love it. Maybe I might be tempted to buy it after all. I must see if Silver can operate the TT in the same way!
There is a big section in the manual about it.......there are differences and it looks as though in certain instances it can be done..........it may be easier with the Heljan being DCC ready

 
(I also need to build a suitable interface for my old manual Heljan:roll:
Now theres an idea  :mutley:pedal



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 07:50 am
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John Dew wrote: I guess the 180o problem remains? Is there an issue with the TT always turning back to the approach block? If not initiate that as an operation at the end of every schedule


 

Knowing nowt about prototypes! i guess it wouldn't be prototypical, who operated the TT? the loco crew? it wouldn't look odd to have the TT cabin always at the correct end. Don't know John what do you reckon.

No "zeroing" the TT at the end of the schedule wouldn't be an issue and an easy fix at the end of a schedule.

I think a flagman as Geoff suggests would proably be the end result so thinking caps on chaps i would be grateful for a bit of help with the condotions logic etc never played with a flagman.

TT working schedules is the result of the info i put in the operations tab i.e. if you want the tt at this track press button 1.

Must get the station board finished so i can do a bit of seperating, shunting, turning and joining.

I think my end game it try to limit the number of used schedules but somehow a DMU on the TT would be bad:mutley

Thanks for your support chaps easily the best RR&co crew on the web, i feel like putting the post on another UK forum for a chorus of "you don't want do that" or "that is not correct"


 



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 12:45 pm
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Geoff R
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I may have found a solution, but then again, I may be completely missing the problem!!




If you select the turntable block in the schedule (whilst in edit mode), you can set schedule only options for the block. At the bottom right is an option on how to exit the turntable bridge. I have set this to forward, and in the sim, the table always turns to oblige, regardless of where the "house" was on entry.

Does this solve the conundrum or not??

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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 04:15 pm
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John Dew
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wogga wrote:
The 180 conundrum i need some time to cover it. i want to have a bit more time to play but i shall leave you with this to ponder!

I can have sched that drives a loco on to the TT, in the list in finish ops i can make TT operate the bridge and turn to a track thru 180 and its cracked.
Now should i run that sched again either after or later in day to a timetable, if the bridge position is still the position it was left in, the loco will go on the bridge as planned but the command in the list won't work because the bridge is already in the position you want to send it to.


I could make every sched unique but can you imagine working that out! This is the conundrum.




Hi Pete

I had another look at this and I am confused

When you define the problem above you refer to operations at the finish of a schedule.

But your solution doesnt involve schedule operations as such? Could you redefine the problem for my aged brain

I will be away from about noon our time until 7pm Saturday.....Opening Day....all pomp and ceremony....blazers and whites and lots to drink............so maybe you will hear from me on Sunday:cheers

 



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 06:16 pm
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Hi Pete,

You must have put a huge amount of time and effort into this, and the results are looking fantastic - I really liked the video.

Regards,

Brian.

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 Posted: Sat May 14th, 2011 12:55 pm
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wogga
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John Dew wrote: When you define the problem above you refer to operations at the finish of a schedule.

But your solution doesnt involve schedule operations as such? Could you redefine the problem for my aged brain

I will be away from about noon our time until 7pm Saturday.....Opening Day....all pomp and ceremony....blazers and whites and lots to drink............so maybe you will hear from me on Sunday:cheers

 


John i hope you are suitably refreshed and full of Pimms i would be.

Sorry John for the confusion, the schedule i upload is showing TC in all it's glory and automatically working based on the settings i put in the TT operations tab i.e. in edit mode double left click on the TT and select the operations tab.

The 180 conundrum, my first thought is maybe operations at the end of a schedule i.e. list may be a solution but i haven't got there yet.

Geoff had a go at your solution using TT to FY3 and yes spot on great it works:thumbs so an option there.

When i get to the loco release schedules i am intending to take the released loco to the "down" block, drive onto the TT, do 180, and back to the "down" block again ready to back on to a train for departure.

So i did a sched, down - tt approach - TT bridge - tt approach - down. checked the forward as per instructions but the bridge wouldn't turn.

The only difference i can see is in the sched you tried TT-FY3, the bridge is a start block. In mine the bridge is an intermmediate block.

When my head clears a bit i shall persevere and see if Geoffs can be expanded. I love this! so much entertainment.



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 Posted: Sat May 14th, 2011 01:00 pm
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brianpr1 wrote: Hi Pete,

You must have put a huge amount of time and effort into this, and the results are looking fantastic - I really liked the video.

Regards,

Brian.


Brian nice to hear from you everything ok? I was going to pm you re the auto ballaster, i gave it ago on my fiddle yard and you can expect to cover about 8 - 10 yards of track with a small bag of woodlands scenics ballast with a brisk movement, really good it is.

No it sbeen fun with the TT and trying to be unbiased it is a nice bit of kit, when i get a result with the 180 turn i shall post another video.



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 Posted: Sat May 14th, 2011 02:25 pm
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Geoff R
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Here you go, Pete - a full solution, I think.

What I learn is that a loco entering the tt from one track and leaving on another will always cause the table to turn, but entering and leaving on the same track within a single schedule fails.

So the solution is to have one schedule for leaving - tender first, and another for arriving which calls the leaving schedule as a successor. Set up the train with its tender facing the tt and run - works fine. The schedule is called Down to TT and it calls TT to Down as its successor.

Incidentally, I don't quite understand why you would not want to go from Up to Down via the TT rather than Down to Down. In case you do, there is another schedule there called Up turn Down, and that is a single schedule which will deliver locos tender first to Down - regardless of orientation in Up. If tender first in Up, the loco is turned, if not it just backs out to Down.

This is also true for the Down to TT followed by the TT to Down successor. If the loco initially in Down is actually facing the TT, the second schedule knows not to turn the TT.

All seems foolproof, and this excitement simply makes me more jealous that I cannot do it with my TT:mrgreen:

Attachment: Stonebridge 2v FINAL.zip (Downloaded 1 time)

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