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Maxmill Electric Tramway - Trams. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2011 08:23 pm
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Petermac
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owen69 wrote: Peter,just a thought ,have you looked at slot car track? it might just be the thing for your tram system,

:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

I've never given it a thought Owen .................:hmm

I have no idea how things have changed since the days of Scalextric and plastic track.  If it's still similar, then I would imagine the conductors (i.e. the actual slot) would be way over scale plus I didn't think the "slots" were available separately. :roll::roll:

Nevertheless Owen, it's certainly worth some research.  Thanks  :thumbs



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 Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 09:15 pm
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Here's a motorised EFE Leeds Horsfield tram.

Currently wired for 2 rail conventional pick-up but I would like to go for overhead when I get around to building the layout, particularly as Leeds used bow collectors so keeping contact with the overhead won't have the problems associated with pole collectors.

The motor in this one is from a well know auction site and is, I think, made by the now defunct BEC,  but in future, I plan to use Halling motors from Austria.








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 Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 09:40 pm
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Where will you put the chip?  :pedal



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 Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 10:05 pm
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I haven't actually decided whether to stay with DC or go for DCC with the trams yet John. :hmm

If I use overhead pick-up, I won't have any polarity problems but it's apparently not recommended for DCC.  Don't ask me why but that's what I've read.  Maybe the occasional loss of power if the pole comes "unwired" could upset the decoder settings ......:roll:

Another advantage of overhead is that, as many of the trams are only 4 wheel, it doubles the pick-up area.

The down side is that these small motors are not the smoothest in the world - even the Halling ones are only 3 pole although they do have a flywheel to help.  Slow running is therefore, a bit "iffy".

As you hinted, hiding the chip might be difficult although not impossible if I used a mini-chip.

In "OO" most people seem to use 2 rail and a cosmetic overhead whereas in "O", prototypical overhead colleting is far more common.  I suspect that has a lot to do with keeping the trolley pole on the wires ............  That's one reason I chose Leeds and the bow collectors.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 06:23 pm
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Hi Peter
As you are aware I have only recently joined the forum and as my interest is in trams rather than railways I have been looking through the posts to see who is modeling them. So I was pleased to get as far as your proposed tram layout post.
Now I have joined this thread fairly late but there are some posts I would like to address.
Corgi Trams.
Corgi seems unaware that changing the livery on a single standard model does not make it a different tram. The alleged Glasgow tram is actualy a three widow body and the only trams in Glasgow with three window bodies were ex-Paisley trams. Most of these were cut down to single deckers to work the Duntocher (No 20) route. So although the Corgi tram may have been seen working in Glasgow it was one of only five in a fleet of one thousand plus so not really typical. As for Leeds the situation is actualy worse as the only legitimate claim is the ex-LCC Felthams. There were no 3 window cars in the Leeds fleet. Corgi apear to have taken a stock Hurst Nelson tram and hoped that nobody will notice that it’s wrong more often than right.


Leeds Bradford through running. Leave this well alone as there were two track gauges involved and the trams changed from Leeds standard gauge to Bradfords four foot at Stanningley Bottom by running over a special track and having spacers put on sliding axles. Mind you 16.5 mm is nearer Bradfords gauge than Leeds.
 
 
You put up a picture of some trackwork being made. Here’s an older one, bear in mind that this is only half of the junction. Something like that needs at least a clear space of 30x30cm. A big road junction in a layout.
 
 
[img]">



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 Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2013 07:49 pm
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Fancy building that junction let alone wiring it , if the tram pickups are off the rails only.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 09:44 am
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Hi Ron
So now you know why tram layouts are either prototype "rail & overhead", or, simple.:mrgreen:

Jim



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 11:19 am
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A question.... are the individual components of the 12"/1ft jobby cast steel or are they fabricated? I admire and sympathise with the pattern-makers/moulders if they are indeed cast...
Doug



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 12:55 pm
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As far as I'm aware Doug, the frogs were cast - to several "standard" designs to cater for the various junctions although, incredibly seeing that shot of a "Grand Union" junction, there was not a huge range required.

The rails were rolled steel, again to a fairly "standard" design.

From that, you'll understand they tended to make the track plan fit the components rather than the other way round. :thumbs



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 01:22 pm
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Hi Jim
Thanks for your input regarding the trams. :cheers

As you rightly say, very few of the diecast models are accurate for a given tramway and I'd agree that the "Horsfield" is probably a "Hurst Nelson" in disguise.  Probably the windows were easier to clean on the Horsfiled .............:roll::roll::roll:

The problem is, tramway modelling - at least British outline tramway modelling - is very much a fringe activity.  The tooling costs of producing anything other than a "generic" model, would be prohibitive and only have a market of a few hundred models - certainly nothing near what would be required to make business sense to the likes of Corgi.  Maybe that's why there are so few tram modelling suppliers - only around 2 or 3 for the UK market.  There simply isn't a market !!!

To me, the Hurst Nelson is extremely similar to the Horsfield in overall appearance - in fact, I wonder if Mr Horsfield simply modified the bodywork slightly to fit in with his "Leeds" ideal.

The Feltham was a unique design, and following the demise of London trams, they were disposed of throughout Britain so it's a model of that tram in particular rather than that "type" of tram, and could ligitimately  carry the livery of wherever they ended up.

From my railway modelling threads, you'll have realised I'm not a purist !!!   The Corgi "Horsfield" is close enough to what I remember as a nipper and, more importantly, it's available "ready made" so all I have to do is motorise it.  I doubt there will be many people visiting my attic here in France who would know one end of a Leeds tram from another ..............;-)



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 02:16 pm
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Thank you, Peter, a sort of 'Set Track for rupture-lovers'.....
Doug



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 03:18 pm
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Hi Peter
Your comments are spot on which is why I am building card trams and have started to produce my own kits. Kits meaning a collection of drawings I can print out, (Ready painted.) and build, as almost nobody these days is doing Glasgow. Currently I am having as much difficulty with the buildings as with the trams. Do YOU know anyone doing tenements in 00?
Luckily enough I have found Elro who produce some limited interest Glasgow specials and their construction techniques are sound and give excellent models when correctly built so I can use the methods as a starting point.

Once I have the Glasgow trams sorted I will have a look at other cities and towns but that will have to wait as I have only one style of tenement at present and I have got to produce some more. Perhaps I'll take a leaf out of Mojo1s book but instead of a mill I'll do a whiskey bond.

Might even have a go at a Horsfield or Convert and I will certainly do a Bradford car for Mojo.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2013 07:29 pm
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If you want specific buildings rather than "representations" Jim, in most cases, you have to scratch build.

There are some superb "texture sheets" available nowadays - look in our index for them - and, from a photograph, you can create something pretty presentable quite easily.

I'm not suggesting a "super-doofer" building for a start but nevertheless, good enough for people to guess it's supposed to be the Gorbels ...........:roll::roll::roll:

From what I read, for the trams there are several manufacturers of card kits plus some fairly decent metal kits, but I suspect you probably know more about that side than I do.



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 Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2013 10:01 am
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Hi Petermac.
We meet again! I have no plans for a speciffic building as yet and as far as the Gorbals in the 50s and 60s goes goes my tenements are too ornate and the street too clean. Does anyone do a "street detritus matt"? Scalescenes do a trackside junk sheet but that is not quite the same.
I would have sent a picture but since you have just given me a bo.... telling off on another thread I will err on the side of caution:oops: this time

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2013 11:31 am
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:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

Always best to err on the side of caution Jim ...........:cheers:cheers:cheers

Your tenements sound more like Stockbridge in Edinburgh than the Gorbals in Glasgow .........:roll::roll: but, if it's just a representation, then as I said, work from a photo and use the readily available "texture" sheets, some of which are free downloads.

There is one site, who's name I've temporarily forgotten, (again, check the index) that offers shots of "scenes" of buildings - I'm almost certain there would be something on there that would make a very passable tenement.

Oh yes, "Peter" is absolutely fine by me and we never, ever give bol...........telling-offs :roll: on here. :thumbs:thumbs



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 Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2013 03:29 pm
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Hi Peter
It's actualy from a blueprint from the Glasgow museum archives of a design from the 1940s and is a type B2 from Scotstoun.
My liberty with it was to clad it in the traditional brown sandstone, incedentaly this is geologicaly the same stuff as the New York "Brownstone" Buildings are built, and I have no idea of the real roof or chimney layout. I think that these were built in concrete, or at least cement clad, like the ones in Drumry.





The tram is "Wee Baldie" and accurate for the tenement as it was used on the No 20 Clydebank to Duntocher route and you had to go through Scotstoun to get to it's depot in Partick It was used as a shipyard special as it never seemed to get full. It looked like the scenes from the Japanese rail system where they used to employ people to push passengers in to let the doors close.
This was the only version of the "Ballie Burt experimental high speed tramcar. It really meant it There are eight motors so it could either realy shift or carry an enormous weight.  It's also still in hibernation at the Glasgow transport museum.
My version is the Elro carboard kit.

Jim



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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 12:52 pm
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Petermac
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This is all very interesting stuff gentlemen but would you have any objections if I started a thread on "Card Trams" and moved these recent posts there ?

As it stands, your posts are hidden within the Maxmill Tramways thread and therefore, will not get the exposure they deserve whilst at the same time, getting way off topic on this thread..



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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 01:11 pm
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Hi Peter
As the lemur in the " Madagascar" cartoons says "You got to move it move it".:doublethumb
I never thought there would be enough interest to create a thread in its own right. Thanks!

New04db
Please send your 3d printers and laser cutters (there are machines like the "Craft Robo" which will cut paterns out), working or broken to......

I think that says it all:mrgreen:

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 03:02 pm
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The Bankie wrote: Hi Peter
As the lemur in the " Madagascar" cartoons says "You got to move it move it".:doublethumb
I never thought there would be enough interest to create a thread in its own right. Thanks!

New04db
Please send your 3d printers and laser cutters (there are machines like the "Craft Robo" which will cut paterns out), working or broken to......

I think that says it all:mrgreen:

Regards
Jim

Unfortunately, I don't think the university will let me,  :pedal but there must be places on the high street or companies out there that you can send plans too so they can be printed



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 Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2013 10:41 am
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Petermac
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I have, with the authors permission, moved the recent posts concerning card modelling of trams to here:

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=10841&forum_id=94&jump_to=193237#p193237



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