| You are here: Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > RR & Co > Newbe questions !! Sorry | To bottom of page |
| Video Archive | Recent Topics |
|---|
|
|
||||||
| ||||||
| Moderated by: Spurno | Page: 1 2   |
|
||||||||
| Newbe questions !! Sorry - RR & Co - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club | ||||||||||
| Author | Post | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
Guys I am going to need some help, and a lot of it, I don't know the first thing about computer controled trains, but with the new plans for New Bournville, and the fact that I will be most of the time operating it on my own , I thought I needed to know more. Take it easy with me guys  First where should I look to read up the basics And should I be planning this at such a early stage ( track planning stage ) or can I add anything after the track is layed Sorry guys told you I ddn't know anything, but I do know that I will be in good hands here  |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
henryparrot Former Member
My photos:
|
Alan aswell as Railroad & co there is Itrain you can download it and Xander will give you a couple of months free registration before deciding to buy and its cheaper http://berros.eu/itrain/en/ Brian |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
wogga Knows nowt about prototypes 
My photos:
|
Hi Alan it is worth thinking about at the track planning/laying stage however not totally nessacary as you can wire up afterward to suit. First thing it must be a DCC system and it must be connected to a PC with an interface. The only thing different from a standard DCC system is train detection so the computer program knows where on the track a train is. This is acheived by block detection very similar to the prototype i guess. Sections of track are isolated from each other to form a block. Power to the block is run via control board so when a loco enters that block the current drawn by the loco is sensed and fed back to the computer program so it knows where the loco is. Most DCC systems are suitable for computer control infact i can only think that the Prodigy/Gaugemaster is not and i would be wary of Hornby Bachmann starter kits. For a large layout it will be ideal, i only have a small but the appeal to me is like going to an exhibition i can watch trains running from all angles and soak up the scene. As Brian has indicated there are a few train control systems about, First and foremost is RR&co Traincontroller no shortage of support an advice on here its availible in three flavours varying fron £80 to £400 but i will say you get what you pay for unfortunaely bronze at £80 is limited in functions. Brian has indicated iTrain cheap still being developed but worth an exploration we have an expert in this who has just joined. And as Sol announced Hornby are releasing Railmaster no info yet. But let me finish off by saying Alan even though you can fully automate a layout with Traincontroller you can mix and match auto and manual so you could have the compter running a mainline on timetable and you can be sat in a corner with your handheld controller shunting to your hearts content in a yard somewhere. Over to you Alan us "geeks" are a patient bunch. Traincontroller here http://www.freiwald.com/pages/index.html Pete ____________________ Regards Pete. ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by. |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
John Dew Full Member 
My photos:
|
Hi Alan Couple of points to add to Pete's excellent summary: You can retrospectively convert a layout, particularly a DCC layout, to computor control. It is however much better when desigining a new layout to plan for the fundamentals of computor control even though you dont initially instal all the hardware I am not sure what DCC system you use but it is probably a good idea to have a separate power bus for the points (which of course must be controlled by a DCC decoder). Pete has mentioned that occupancy detection is key so even though you dont initially install detectors the block configuration merits a lot of careful planning As you know there are a number of enthusiasts here so you will get lots of help. It is interesting to see the different ways we have used the Software......Geoff with his switchboard and route setting for manual control, Brian with his signalls and Max with his Shunting Puzzle.....I guess Pete and I go for the full Monty Hopefully a quick scan of the tutorial I wrote will help get an idea of the basics.....its in 2 parts because I am in the middle of reorganising/editing it I would strongly recommend downloading both systems......RR&Co has a demo version and unlike Itrains a simulator. I would also look at the forums for the two systems........ it will give you an idea of their respective development history. Regards ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
wogga wrote: Most DCC systems are suitable for computer control infact i can only think that the Prodigy/Gaugemaster is not Over to you Alan us "geeks" are a patient bunch.  Hit a brick wall straight away, as I have two Prodigy Gaugemaster systems  Thanks for your advice guys, I will go away and sit in a dark room and read up as much as possible, then the questions will start |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
MaxSouthOz Admin 
My photos:
|
You can probably get good money for the Prodigy's on ebay, Alan. Then you can buy yourself a Lenz.  
____________________ Max Port Elderley |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
MaxSouthOz wrote: You can probably get good money for the Prodigy's on ebay, Alan. Then you can buy yourself a Lenz. 
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
henryparrot Former Member
My photos:
|
What is this then? ITs a prodigy computer interface cable http://www.gaugemaster.com/prodigy_pc_interface.html Edit / I have had a look around since posting this apparently yes it connects to a computer but you can only use it with their provided software which changes cv`s and lets you make throttles etc. You cannot use it with any external software because gaugemaster(MRC) refush to publish what protocol they use so you are stuffed. Thats a shame because the base system is popular and nearly all people who have it are pleased with how it works Brian |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
I knew this would happen If a computer is going to run the layout why do I need the Prodigy or similar ? |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
MaxSouthOz Admin
My photos:
|
The computer just takes the place of the throttle, Alan.
____________________ Max Port Elderley |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
henryparrot Former Member
My photos:
|
Alan Because the computer has to interface with the dcc hardware in other words it has to be able to talk to the dcc system to tell it what to do. Unfotunately nearly all dcc systems except the Gaugemaster(MRC) prodigy do that . Even a Hornby Elite does. Personally think gaugemaster have made a big boo boo there. Basically its the language used to talk to each other most common are Xpressnet and loconet plus a few others Apparently gaugemaster wont publish what language their system uses so you cant talk to it. I will look for cheapest solution for you you could keep the prodigy for normal use but switch to something else to use puter. Brian |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
 GuysI thought it was something like that ! So can I have one system that runs the layout DCC ( Prodigy ) and another that could run it from the computer ? |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
henryparrot Former Member
My photos:
|
Yes All you do i set up a changeover switch to use either prodigy or the other system thats bits easy What you need to do is find the cheapest system that will give you pc control i will have a look Alan but of the top of my head the Horrnby Elite is probably going to be the cheapest solution, Obviously if you were prepared to spend a bit more there are better systems but you only want pc control so perhaps thats not neccesary. Brian |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
Thanks Brian If you need some sort of DCC control system to power the computer, do you also need a different power source for the points ? |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
MaxSouthOz Admin
My photos:
|
The actual power that operates the turnouts in TC comes from the LS 150, Alan. That's the reason I went Lenz all the way. I was joking before about ebay, but the reality is you should bite the bullet and buy an up market system and be done with it. ECOS is the ultimate and probably not for you. Lenz will run TC, I'm not sure about NCE, but playing with lesser systems is just asking for it. Lenz make all the bits you need for train control. That was my choice. ____________________ Max Port Elderley |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
henryparrot Former Member
My photos:
|
If you want them controlled by the computer they have to be controlled by the dcc system so what you have are things called accesory decoders the most common one used is the LEnz LS 150 which doess 6 points. This set up could be used by both the prodigy and a new pc controlled one As with all things it depends what point motors you intend to use there are varoius accesory decoders some are better suited than others to differant point motors and of course you have to way up the cost of certain accesory decoders For example i have 6 ls 150`s 1 nce switch and 1 switchpilot so you can use differant manufacturer ones dependant on what point motors you use. Brian |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
MaxSouthOz Admin
My photos:
|
Brian, I reckon that someone starting out shouldn't have a cocktail of brands and systems. It's OK for experienced people like yourself, but it's a bit much for Alan to get his head around first off. The KISS principle. No offence, Alan.  ____________________ Max Port Elderley |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
Alan Former Member
My photos:
|
None taken.......................But I am worried about the Kiss
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
John Dew Full Member
My photos:
|
Alan wrote: Thanks Brian Using KISS..........Yes You run a Power bus giving power to the track and DCC instructions to both the track and accessory decoders and a completely separate bus from a separate transformer to power the point motors In my case, using Lenz, there is a third bus...for feedback Incidentally I was in a similar position to you 3 years ago.......new house.....new layout......knew I wanted DCC and computor control but knew nothing about either. Did lots of research......came to the same conclusion as Max......use one DCC system its simpler. I started work on the layout knowing the eventual aim but didnt buy the RR&Co software or interface for another 12 months but it was then plug and play because the correct wiring was in place...............of course during the first 12 months I was learning all about RR&Co with the demo version. ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10 |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
|
MaxSouthOz Admin
My photos:
|
Keep It Simple, Silly.
____________________ Max Port Elderley |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
| This is topic ID = 7996 Current time is 04:01 am | Page: 1 2 |
| You are here: Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > RR & Co > Newbe questions !! Sorry | |||
|
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin. Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text, click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above. To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below. To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below. |
|
||
|
Back to top of page | ||
| |||
| Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster. | |||
| All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. |
| Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission. |
| The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. © 2008 |
| Recent Topics | Back to top of page | |
|
Powered by Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams. |
||