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No.2 Coaling Plant - Scratchbuilding. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Fri Jan 7th, 2011 06:59 pm
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owen69
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one doe`s not realise just how many bits make up the whole ???

that is a lot of work mate , more power to your elbow..
:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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 Posted: Fri Jan 7th, 2011 07:02 pm
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Perry
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How true! I remember keeping count of parts involved in the goods shed project. The total was quite scary. I haven't bothered with this project, but there is certainly a very large number of parts involved. I've really enjoyed it.

Perry



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 Posted: Fri Jan 7th, 2011 08:41 pm
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Sol
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I would think ordering a bespoke model from Perry Engineering,  would need the sale of the family house :pedalor the youngest born exclam:

Well done Perry

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 Posted: Fri Jan 7th, 2011 11:36 pm
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Petermac
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I'd happily swap my youngest born for a coal bunker but I don't think Perry would take me up on the deal.................:mutley:mutley:mutley

Can't wait to see it all assembled Perry.  From the sub-assemblies, it looks like another masterpiece.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 08:27 am
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Perry
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Thanks gents, but much as I have enjoyed building this one, I don't think I would want to do it for a living! :shock::mutley

Now that it's all assembled, I've stood it in place on the baseboard to see what it will look like, bearing in mind the earlier thoughts about the possibility of it 'overpowering' everything else due to its size. I am very pleased with how it looks. It fits in well, even as stark white as it is. Once some darker tones are painted on, I think it will recede into the scene even better.

I will photograph it next week when the remaining stairs and handrails arrive and have been fitted.

On the cost aspect, it wouldn't have been too bad at all had I not opted to use the rather expensive Plastruct components for the stairs and some of the handrails. I feel I had little choice though, because to scratchbuild that amount of stairs and handrails would have taken far too long and to get the desired consistency of appearance would have been nigh on impossible for me. The eyes and the hands struggle a bit nowadays.

So, apart from the Plastruct stuff, what did I use? Maybe a couple of sheets of 0.040" Plastikard, a few lengths of styrene strip of various sizes - mostly already in stock - some tube glue and solvent, two or three knife blades and lots of oddments from the bits box. Ignoring the cost of the Plastruct items, I doubt if the whole thing cost me much more than £20 to build. Including the Plastruct stuff would probably add another £15 or so. Having seen the cost of the quality commercially available coaling plants (£80 - £100), and not counting the card Superquick one, obviously, I think the whole cost of the project has been quite reasonable.

I started this build on 19th December 2010 and to all intents and purposes finished construction (although not the painting) on 7th January 2011, which is 20 days. Taking into account the Christmas and New Year holidays which took up some valuable modelling time, :It's a no no, I would guess that it took a little over two weeks, doing a little more on it on most days.

What have I learned from it?

1. The value of producing plans in Sketchup 8, which saved me a lot of time making the bunker assembly. I would have had to make several card mock-ups using trial and error to establish all the different angles and sizes of the parts required. Using Sketchup 8, I put in the known measurements and it worked out all the others, including the angles, for me.

2. I discovered a new (to me) way of building long lengths of handrails. Again, it was a simple little thing, but it saved me lots of time and frustration trying to get everything lined up and glued up.

3. It confirmed the value of making large models in sub-assemblies, making them easier to handle and work on, with more likelihood of easy recovery should disaster strike - which fortunately, it didn't. :thumbs

Completion photos to follow next week, then I'll do a few during painting, just in case anyone isn't completely sick of the sight of it yet. :pedal

Perry



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 09:52 am
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Les
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Perry wrote:  just in case anyone isn't completely sick of the sight of it yet.
You've got to be kidding Perry, this has been so educational. :thumbs

I'm building a station from scratch thanks to you and your explanations and I'm loving it. My problem is that I cant just nip out and get the materials; I have to send for them therefore the whole project can come to a full stop for weeks. Could I therefore ask, do you source all your plastic from local shops or is it just as well to get it from suppliers like Squires?

Your craftsmanship and artistry are outstanding and I've got a lot out of this thread Perry, many thanks.

Les




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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 10:38 am
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Petermac
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Good point Les - I'm in the same boat and, to make shipping costs easier on the wallet, I try to bulk up orders which puts even more strain on the budget.

A certain shop in Cornwall is very helpful in that they'll ship stuff here for a flat rate of £5 providing you keep the weight down (can't remember what the actual weight limit is but I'm sure the Boss of that shop will remind us .......Chris - are you there ?)



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 11:45 am
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Perry
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Thanks for the kind comments.

I get my materials from a variety of sources, using 'local' shops and mail order. Unfortunately, my 'local' model shops are still a thirty-mile round trip away, so I can't exactly just nip down to the shop when I run out of anything.

I order Plastruct from a source that is in my County, but a fair way away. They charge postage and packing at a reasonable rate and I've calculated that it's still cheaper then spending money on fuel to drive there and back.

I have two or three 'local' sources of 'Evergreen' styrene products, but they are often out of stock of the ones I want. I like their plastikard, though. It has a nice surface on both sides, but it isn't cheap. I have bought packs of 10 or so sheets of Plastikard from other sources but have found that the quality and finish varies. One batch I bought was very shiny on one side and needed sanding to take paint well.

Over a long period of time I have gradually amassed a good selection of packets of microstrip and rod, and have found that they last quite well, so most of the stuff I need is usually already to hand. I keep almost all my offcuts of sheet and strip too, and find them very useful and economical to use.

Perry



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 11:55 am
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ddolfelin
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I find that Squires for Plasticard and similar products works out slightly cheaper when the postage is taken into account (Orders over £10 they don't charge for UK postage).
Also, the delivery is very good.
Unlike some suppliers.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 11:56 am
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Les
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Petermac wrote: Good point Les - I'm in the same boat and, to make shipping costs easier on the wallet, I try to bulk up orders which puts even more strain on the budget.

A certain shop in Cornwall is very helpful in that they'll ship stuff here for a flat rate of £5 providing you keep the weight down (can't remember what the actual weight limit is but I'm sure the Boss of that shop will remind us .......Chris - are you there ?)

You probably find like me Peter that you only realise you need a few strips of "x" by "y" microstrip half way through the build so unless you have the perspicacity of a soothesayer you wont realise it for your bulk order until it's too late. Maybe you and I should start a continental shop.

I must follow this thing up from Ol Blue Eyes cos I didn't know about it (but I'm not going on a diet just to keep postage costs down).:roll:

Sorry to be a pain Perry but are you able to let us know what your most commonly used sizes of microstrip are?

Les



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 12:14 pm
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Perry
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Les wrote: ............Sorry to be a pain Perry but are you able to let us know what your most commonly used sizes of microstrip are?

Les

Not a pain at all. That's the whole idea of this forum - to be able ask anything.

It's not an easy question to answer, because it depends on the task in hand,  but I'll give it a go.

0.020" x 0.020" (0.5mm x 0.5mm)
0.040" x 0.040" (1mm x 1mm)
0.040" x 0.080" (1mm x 2mm)
0.080" x 0.100" (2mm x 2.5mm)
0.188" x 0.188" (4.8mm x 4.8mm)

I have just checked my stock and I actually have 14 different sizes of strip, plus a small selection of rod, tube, box section and girder section material, but I find I don't use much of these. A lot of 'H' or 'I'-section girders are built from sheet and/or microstrip as long as I don't need huge lengths of them, in which case I buy them ready-made, as in the main hoist support rails on this project.

I also keep a stock of  0.005", 0.010", 0.020" and 0.040" styrene sheets, with the emphasis on 0.040" (1mm). I use this for most of my main construction work. I can always laminate these if I need anything thicker, but I find 0.040" an ideal thickness to work with generally.

I hope this helps.

Perry





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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 12:32 pm
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Les
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That's great Perry. I only have a supply of numbers 2 and 3 on the list so I know what to aim at now. Many thanks.:thumbs

Les



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 03:56 pm
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Petermac
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I assume you've found the extra cost of the Evergreen stuff is worth it Perry.  They don't seem to know what it is over here but then it could be that I'm asking for dustbins or something !!  Anyone know what the French for "plasticard" is ?

I'd always understood that all plasticard had a rough and smooth face - the smooth for glueing and the rough for painting.   It appears I've learnt something else today .......:roll::roll::roll:

Your list of stock is indeed useful and yes Les, you're right about when I find out I'm short of something ............

I searched the whole of Yorkshire for some Evergeen rod a couple of years ago and found an excellent stockist at Wakefield Model & Craft Centre.  His upper floor is an Aladin's Cave for railway modellers. :thumbs  They don't appear to have a dedicated web site but if you Google it, there are loads of links to it plus an online shop.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 04:12 pm
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Perry
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I like the quality of the Evergreen card. To my eyes, it looks to be the same finish, or as near as dammit, on both sides. Some of the cheaper stuff I tried (can't recall where from) was almost a mirror finish on one side and wasn't anywhere near as nice to work with, IMHO. I've also found that the Evergreen stuff is a little more rigid than some other brands.

As I don't use huge quantities of it, even on a project of this size, I'm happy to pay the extra. Giving some consideration to how a sheet is marked out prior to cutting can often save a lot of waste. I try to make the most of each sheet and try to ensure that the offcuts are of a useable size but even the smaller pieces go in the bits box. I use them to make reinforcing fillets, small brackets and the like. Not much gets wasted.

Perry



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 04:18 pm
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Perry
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Les wrote: .........I'm building a station from scratch thanks to you and your explanations and I'm loving it. .......................
Les



New thread with photos coming up, I hope????? :doublethumb

Perry



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 05:08 pm
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Les
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Oh blimey. :oops: Well I hadn't intended that really Perry. I was more sort of letting it sneak through on my personal layouts thread Devon Junction. There is a picture there you could see.:lol::lol::lol::lol::roll:

Les



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 05:25 pm
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Perry
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Les wrote: Oh blimey. :oops: Well I hadn't intended that really Perry. I was more sort of letting it sneak through on my personal layouts thread Devon Junction. There is a picture there you could see.:lol::lol::lol::lol::roll:

Les

I just had a look and I fear there's absolutely no chance of "letting it sneak through"! :mutley

This is a pretty major scratchbuild and we want, nay, we DEMAND more photos and "How-to's"! So come on, Les, a new scratchbuilding thread is required of you at this juncture! :doublethumb

Us 'Scratchies' have got to stick together. :thumbs

Perry



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 Posted: Sat Jan 8th, 2011 06:06 pm
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owen69
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I agree bring on the piccies,:mutley

Perry said:- Us 'Scratchies' have got to stick together. :thumbs
would that involve m e k or super glue, or just the stuff that sticks to woolly blankets ????

:pedal:mutley:mutley:lol::cool:

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 Posted: Sun Jan 9th, 2011 10:43 pm
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I suppose I'm lucky to have a model shop just 1 mile from my house and another 4 in Cardiff, which is just 12 miles away. Even so, the biggest problem, caused by a shop's need to order significant quantities, seems to be finding the specific size you need is out of stock pending the next delivery.

I currently have in stock various sizes of strip, L section, U section, H beams, and rod, as well as at least 1 sheet of all thicknesses from 10 thou (0.10") to 80 thou, with 20, 40 & 60 being the most common. So I tend to stock up using Squires, adding on a few bits to any order I place.

Perry's list gives a good basis for keeping "handy bits" in stock and to that end I published a table of some uses in an earler version of the forum. As that appears to have been lost during the "big crash" several years ago, here's a copy for your use  that includes Squires references. The prices will not be accurate though :roll::roll: :-



I have a more comprehensive list somewhere, but can't find it at the moment.


 

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 Posted: Mon Jan 10th, 2011 07:51 pm
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Where did you buy the "kit" from Perry ?:shock::shock::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Another masterpiece i think i shall hang up me modelling tweezers and take up fishing!

Can't wait to see it in situ.



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