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Sol
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This is one of the wagons I purchased from KMRC recently - photo from that website (because I forgot to take one before I modified it)



 

I got to & modified it for my D&S railway & this is it




Bit of weathering & it will be on the tracks soon.  The other wagon has also been modified & they will join a train of other mineral wagons carting gravel.

MaxSouthOz
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The poor thing will need counselling.  :shock:

henryparrot
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Ron

Are you having a mineral dropper in you new two level centre terminus extension?

Brian

Sol
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No, the trains go off to storage sidings. They come back later empty.

Petermac
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Are they reasonable things to build Ron ?  They're the old Airfix kits aren't they ?

Looks pretty good after the D & S treatment. :cheers

Sol
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Very easy Peter, straight from the Dapol Box. Code B712A - RTR.
The hardest part was getting the Kadee onto it. Plugging a Kadee NEM type coupler was too low & too long especially after de-buffering so I had to instal a Kadee 30 series box & a Underset Shank coupler & I even had to cut away some of the plastic underneath to fit the smaller coupler box.
This version of coupler http://kadee.com/htmbord/page37.htm with the box on top of the shank.

Gwent Rail
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Photographic illustrations of the Kadee fitting available perchance quest:quest: 
Dapol is the one type of wagon that is stumping me at the moment. I've read elsewhere that some hacking about is required, but not seen any sort of instructions.

sparky
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Do you hold a range of Kadee stuff ,just in case Ron .Or do you go out to purchase to suit the individual pieces of stock?

Gwent Rail
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sparky wrote: Do you hold a range of Kadee stuff ,just in case Ron .Or do you go out to purchase to suit the individual pieces of stock?
Sol will reply when he's able, no doubt, Reg. For my part, I have some of the most useful bits in stock ready, especially the 3 sizes that plug into the NEM fittings now quite common on British stock.

Petermac
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Gwent Rail wrote: .........................................................especially the 3 sizes that plug into the NEM fittings now quite common on British stock.

Would you care to share those sizes with me Jeff ?

I've always liked the Kadee coupling system but have never got around to changing anything - maybe now's the time ...........:roll:

Sol
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I do have a variety of couplers & boxes & in this cae, I am getting sopme new Series 30 boxes - the later version which are click together types. http://kadee.com/htmbord/page252.htm
For the Kadee NEM sizes, refer to http://kadee.com/htmbord/page17.htm for the short version, ;next size #18 is http://kadee.com/htmbord/page18.htm
just change the page number to 19 & 20 for the other two sizes & to make it easy, I will scan that page from the catalogue a bit later when I get some photos of what I cut away underneath to fit the box.

Sol
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OK, firstly Kadee couplers - NEM plug in types.




 

Now the wagon showing the existing sprung NEM mounting & tension lock - normally screwedd in but I turfed the screw & had to hunt through my rubbish to find the two parts again.




now with the tension lock unit removed to show the method of springing




Now cutting away some of the plastic to allow the box to fit. Even if one left the buffers on, a standard box will not fit without more cutting back. A hole is drilled to take a small screw - self tapping or the Kadee version Part256  which is a 2-56 x 1/2"




Now with the coupler fitted - if still using buffers, then a longer shanked coupler will be required.

Note that the coupler is not centred as I am using for the photo example, a Whiskered coupler which does not fit  into this Series box properly so I am getting the Series 252 boxes via mail this week.




Earlier DAPOL wagons with the larger T/L clipped in requires a complete removal of plastic supports & the glueing on of some styrene to give a base for the Kadee box to be anchored. There are two different earlier versions that I am aware of & both require slightly different actions.


 

Petermac
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Very comprehensive and informative coverage Ron - many thanks.:thumbs

Sol
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Petermac wrote: Very comprehensive and informative coverage Ron - many thanks.:thumbs


The account is in the mail :mutley

I find fitting Kadees a challenge on some & very easy on others.

Locos - Steam - Tank are the worst for older pre-NEM pocket versions

Gwent Rail
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It's the "earlier DAPOL wagons with the larger T/L clipped in" ones that are bothering me, Sol. Now that I'ts been confirmed that a bit of "body hacking" is required, I'll see what I can do.

Sol
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Two ways I have modified earlier versions. Once the T/L brackets removed, either

 fill the hole with styrene




and the base height is ideal for a standard box & #5 coupler



Now if you want to use an Underset shank coupler like #47



bit too close but I think you get the idea - in this case, using some bread bag  clip made out of styrene , a base is made





Sol
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Just to refresh some memories - look in our Index Under K for Kadee
This is one such link
http://www.theplatelayers.org/KadeeBritish.pdf

Black5
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Ron, I was told Kadees aren't the best for my layout as I have a few dips and hills?.. what's your set up like? is it flat?

Sol
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Warren, mine is flat for 90+% but I have had them running on earlier layouts with many ups & downs. Dips & bumps are no good for any brand of rolling stock especially long wheel based with couplers fitted to the body. Any change of gradient should be smooth & track joins also smooth.

A good test of trackwork & rolling stock is to propel a long train backwards through all types of trackwork at some speed without derailing. This ensures rolling stock is weighted correctly, has back-to-backs set all to the same standard & that track work is smooth at all joins.
I have found with this process of testing, that Conflat wagons are the worst as it is hard to add sufficient weight to them empty.

Even if you do not use Kadee, it has been found that mixing the varieties of tension lock couplings creates problems.

Last edited on Tue Dec 14th, 2010 11:31 am by

Gwent Rail
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I agree with Sol here, Warren.
My last layout had two levels (one over the other) which climbed in a 1:39 gradient. I never had any problems with Kadee where the transition from flat to climb was smooth or where the climb was even. I did have one spot where the wagons were uncoupling constantly though - careful examination revealed a depressed section (dip) in the climb about 3" long. I packed some spacers under the diepression to even things out and had no more trouble. The key to reliable working is to get the height exactly right, exact across all the couplings used and without any up and down flop. A Kadee height gauge is vital for this.

Sol
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Today, the new snap-together Kadee box #252 arrived,




 fitted in the Whisker coupler #148 as per the right hand side drawing

http://kadee.com/htmbord/page148.htm

all clicks together first class & mounted to the base of the open wagon & lines up perfectly with Kadee height gauge.

I am very happy with them.

The box measures 9.35mm, the standard #5 box is 11.7mm with the new click box #242 being 10.83mm.

Sol
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Kadee advised me this morning of another snap-together box

We have added another box to our whisker line of couplers and it's the #262 it's a low profile narrow box.http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page262.htm

Last edited on Fri Dec 17th, 2010 08:03 pm by

MaxSouthOz
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That should be a big improvement, Sol.  :thumbs

Petermac
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Other than what we see on the picture Sol, what exactly is a "Whisker" coupler ?  What does the registered word "Whisker" signify ?

Also, do you order yours direct from the States or from a local supplier ?

Sol
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Kadee give us modellers a lot of choice . Got a pair of their bogies as well, even cheaper than Steam Era & non-magnetic to boot.

MaxSouthOz
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Peter, the whiskers replace the bronze spring box inside the coupler box.  I changed my RR&Co rolling stock over to them and there was an immediate improvement.  You can see the whiskers protruding forward from the back of the coupler arm.  They press against the sides of the box and return the arm to the centre position when it's released.

Sol
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Kadee developed their "whisker" coupling as a option because McHenry/EZYmate use that principle



you can see the whiskers ( metal) on the side.

Me - I purchase bulk lots direct from Kadee but odd packets locolly in Aust.

Petermac
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Thanks Sol - I hadn't noticed the "whiskers" on the packet.  Your shot makes them much clearer.

Along with track building, this is something I've got to try out.  Having seen them in action on a shunting layout, they are both very clever and far less obtrusive than T/L's.

I wonder why UK RTR has stuck with the T/L's all this time.

Sol
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Petermac wrote: I wonder why UK RTR has stuck with the T/L's all this time.


The aversion of many living in the UK  ** to have anything to with objects not created by the people of the UK - take DCC for example, UK is basically the last modelling country to take it up.

I think a large majority of UK model train users also have the philosophy, if it is good enough for Tri-ang/Hornby, it is good enough for me.

I have even read on other UK model forums, a question, "Why do we have all these different scales, is not one good enough?"

Re couplings, while USA modelling has not officially adopted the Kadee style for a standard, at least the USA modeling scene via the NMRA, set standards for coupler boxes & I think 99% of manufacturers followed that.

In the UK, it has only been in the last 4-5 years after DOGO set Standards for NEM boxes based on the Europeans modelling standards, that  the UK models are now slowly getting a box height standard. And that also ruffled a few UK feathers in having European standards "forced" upon us.

 

** we even have UK ex-pats now living here that also have nothing to do with USA modeling in any manner - Max even found that out at a BRMA meeting locally.

 

Now back to breakfast. :roll:

Petermac
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Sorry Max - totally missed the fact that the first reply was from you !!! :oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops:  I assumed it was fom Ron as he posted shortly after you did.  Am I forgiven ?

Sol
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I will even if Max doesn't :pedal

Gwent Rail
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Sol wrote: Kadee developed their "whisker" coupling as a option because McHenry/EZYmate use that principle



you can see the whiskers ( metal) on the side.



I'm not ultra-versatile with all of Kadee offerings, as I'm still in the early stages of converting all my stock, so I've not come across these "whisker" couplings. On the face of it, the assembly method looks easier than the standard Kadee gearbox, as it looks like a simple two-part snap together - is this so?
The other question to ask is for some guidance on what whisker couplings to get in stock, I've obviously got the No 17 - 20s and also some useful No 5s. Apart from that all I have is a few of No 46 & No 58.

Any advice gratefully received. :thumbs:thumbs

Sol
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Jeff, yes the snap-together 242, 252 & now 262 are easy as . The 242 still takes the older style of coupler like #5, 46, etc. As far as Whisker versions. #148 is equal to #5. #46 discontinued & replaced with whisker 146
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/coupler.htm

I have a few under & overset couplers & some also in longer shanks. In fact I have DMU to look at for my mate with the thoughts of fitting Kadees to it - the new cliup box 252 maybe ideal

#58 Scale head couplers - these do not like bumps in the track.

MaxSouthOz
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Sorry Peter, just got back from a house call.  Absolutely, my Son.  Go in peace.  :cool wink

Gwent Rail
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Sol:
OK, so armed with your explanation of the new whisker coupling, what are the recommendations for purchasing some stock (assuming UK outline late steam / mainly diesel??)

Sol
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Jeff, re locos - the majority of the latest releases should take NEM types #19 or #20 - most will probably need a shim of thin styrene under the shank to stop the slight droop.
Goods wagons, again new Bachmann NEM #19 or 20. Non-NEM, remove the box, file any bumps off even the slight ones, & screw the coupler pocket on - #242 with #148 coupler. I will get a photo or two of the screws I use.
I would also have a pack of boxes 252 & 262 & at least one pack of couplers #146 & 147 because you never know.

I am led to believe that one UK shop that is the main agent for Kadee in the UK . MG Sharp? also has a sample kit set up for UK outl;ine but don't hold me to that.

As most of us who have converted UK outline, sometimnes it is trial & error but imn the mmain ,for godos stock, #5/ #148 will cover the majority.

owen69
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just one thing to add to Sol`s post ,Jeff if you have a fair bit of old stock,ie trucks carriages it
will be cheaper using Bachmann couplers, you can buy bulk packs about half the price of Kadee`s
the only difference is they are plastic not metal, but work just as well.
you still need kadee boxes though.

:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

Sol
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A word of warning though re Bachmann EZYmate couplers, always try to obtain MK2 versions with the little coil spring on the knuckle like Kadee, they are very good but the MK1 has the little finger of plastic that can either stay deformed if left pressed open or under load such as dragging 15 wagons of around 2 oz each, they will pop open & leave your train behind. It happened Friday night here on the D&S with some hopper wagons I was given so they have to be replaced pronto.

Sol
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Screws for anchoring Kadee boxes, this photo shows the two versions I use, the small one is a self-tapper & the long one, a genuine Kadee 2-56 x 1/2" & for these, tapping is required so I use the Kadee drill & tap set #246. I also use the tap drill from the set for the pilot hole for the self tapper screw



Gwent Rail
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Thanks sol, at least I have a good idea of an adequate starter kit, to supplement my No 18 - 20s now. :thumbs:thumbs

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Hi Ron.  I am having a lot of success with Kadee Couplings, but I would like to fit a three link Coupling system on at least some of my wagons. All British Outline of course. But if I could get a three link Couplings to work as reliable and “ Hands Free” as the Kadees system it would look prototype.    Best wishes Kevin 

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Kevin, look at these re 3 link couplings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoqWaJs8Msg&t=42s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrzwK7qf0k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOIj0k8OC2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWI_gYLYkEk


Passed Driver
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Hi Ron.   Thank you for your reply . I PM Gormo, and he said “ that his little grandsons had all sorts of trouble with them” . It was something to do with “ consistency “ of construction?. Best wishes Kevin 

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Western Way uses a similar system on here Kevin and swears by it, so take a look at his thread.

Bill

Edited for poor English. Apologies, B

Last edited on Wed Nov 28th, 2018 09:19 pm by Longchap

Passed Driver
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Hi Bill. Thank you for your reply. I will have to study that. :off topic This is me going off the rails? I was re reading your thread on bogies and seating. Very interesting. Best wishes Kevin 




Longchap wrote:
Western Way uses a similar system on here Kevin and sweats by it, so take a look at his thread.

Bill


                 

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