Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > RR & Co > Tutorial Speed Profiling To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Tutorial Speed Profiling - RR & Co - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sat Apr 16th, 2011 11:42 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 21st post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John, when you use a Speed Table, CV 6 is deselected (as are CV 2 and CV 5).  ECos does it automatically, but the control for 3 x CV speed profiling and Speed Table is in CV 29 > Bit 4 = 16 so the Speed Table consists of CV 67 - 94 instead.

I found that the Speed Table didn't work well with TC and went back to the 3 x CV option.

I hope that makes sense.  :pedal



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Apr 17th, 2011 04:58 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 22nd post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

On some of my loco's I have a top speed of 90kmph - to accommodate this I've had to adjust my set up and I now have  the two run in-outs at 95cm in length, although the locos are stopping at about 75cm. The centre section is 104cm in length.


I've been following the recent posts with interest - I have been setting the CV's as instructed and then setting up the speed profile using DecoderPro before I start the speed profiling. Now I'm not sure if I should be doing this - the loco seems to run Ok when controlled by the computer but I've noticed the results in the speed profiling window graphs look different from those in John's tutorial and in the manual.  Whoops and I have just noticed that I'm not using the same measurement method as in the tutorial -  I will redo and see what results I get.:oops:



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Apr 17th, 2011 08:54 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 23rd post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave your measurement method looks ok, automatic measurement with occupancy sensors which it the one we all use unless you don't have sensors?

Don't forget to set the contact range, i measure from the buffer to the point where the first pick up wheel comes in to contact with the track.



As for different graphs they will vary between loco and loco and dependent on your cv settings. the aim is to get all the speed steps dots below your max speed line to keep Dr Railroad quiet. Sorry i haven't got an example to hand i am in the middle of rebuilding.



____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Apr 17th, 2011 06:39 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 24th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MaxSouthOz wrote: John, when you use a Speed Table, CV 6 is deselected (as are CV 2 and CV 5).  ECos does it automatically, but the control for 3 x CV speed profiling and Speed Table is in CV 29 > Bit 4 = 16 so the Speed Table consists of CV 67 - 94 instead.

I found that the Speed Table didn't work well with TC and went back to the 3 x CV option.

I hope that makes sense.  :pedal


I could do with a bit more help Max..................this is what I currently do before I start Speed Profiling

I adjust CV2 to get the slowest crawl speed................then I do a single speed test with TC at the max speed set up for the loco and I adjust CV5 until I get there

When I alter CV2 or 5 I adjust CV6 to be somewhere in the middle

Once crawl speed and max speed are sorted I speed profile and once complete never touch the CVs again

What should I be doing?

As you know the DCC system is Lenz..............The chips are either Lenz or TCS

ps Off topic do you know when DCC concepts will release their new loco decoders.

Kind Regards

pps I now know you will answer this when I have my afternoon tea:lol: 



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Apr 17th, 2011 10:05 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 25th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote:
I could do with a bit more help Max..................this is what I currently do before I start Speed Profiling

I adjust CV2 to get the slowest crawl speed................then I do a single speed test with TC at the max speed set up for the loco and I adjust CV5 until I get there

When I alter CV2 or 5 I adjust CV6 to be somewhere in the middle

Once crawl speed and max speed are sorted I speed profile and once complete never touch the CVs again

What should I be doing?

As you know the DCC system is Lenz..............The chips are either Lenz or TCS

ps Off topic do you know when DCC concepts will release their new loco decoders.

Kind Regards

pps I now know you will answer this when I have my afternoon tea:lol: 


What you're doing is what I did to the loco I use on my TC layout, John.  CVs 2 5 and 6.  That's why I suggested that Dave's approach using a speed table, may not be helping.  I also set mine up so that there are no grey dots above the red line.

I hope that explains it better.

I haven't heard when Richard is releasing his decoders.  Perhaps a PM to Sol?  He knows him better than I do.

Cheers



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Apr 17th, 2011 10:26 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 26th post
Sol
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Bromsgrove Models normally stocks DCCconcepts decoders but out of stock. I do not know who else supplies in the UK.
All I can suggest is that a direct e-mail to DCCconcepts on sales@dcccconcepts.com

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 06:31 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 27th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Max/Ron

Bromsgrove will not supply North America......I will emaill DCC Concepts



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2011 07:30 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 28th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John ,

I emailed Richard a few days ago asking about the new DCC Loco decoders - so far no response



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2011 07:37 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 29th post
Sol
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave, give him a ring   08 94372471 but not on Tuesdays


When are we open?

We try to make it easy for you, so we open at times that suit Modellers best!

Mon, Wed, Thur. Fri:     10am to 5pm

Saturday and Sunday:  12pm to 5pm

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2011 10:48 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 30th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Sol - will do



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 11:34 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 31st post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote: Thanks Max/Ron

Bromsgrove will not supply North America......I will emaill DCC Concepts


John

Just received a rely from Richard in response to my question as to when the new decoders would be available-
"Right now Dave - I am just waiting for added stock before releasing online. Regards Richard"
:doublethumb



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 03:19 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 32nd post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Dave

I got a very helpful reply from Richard......it looks as though they will be available shortly

Regards



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 10:14 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 33rd post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Mr Naive here, what's the attraction with DCC Concepts loco decoders then?

What am i missing when they are released?



____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 10:43 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 34th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

wogga wrote: Mr Naive here, what's the attraction with DCC Concepts loco decoders then?

What am i missing when they are released?

The main interest for me is the "stay alive feature" 

Here is a post from another Forum (written in January) - a limited supply of the decoders where available from Bromsgrove Modles in the UK and by all accounts were well received.

 

1. Reference the "stay alive" feature.....

It's a facility provided to allow short wheelbase locos, with relatively few pick-up contacts, to overcome momentary losses of power when passing over gaps or bits of dirt on the track.
It uses a capacitor of sorts and some "managing" electronics to supply power to the decoder for the split second or so when track power is broken or interrupted.
The idea is to prevent stuttering or stalling as the loco passes over such a place (e.g. pointwork).

Most useful on 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 locos and it can be very effective.

2. Posted by Richard himself, so I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it here.....

*** Hi all

A quick bit of feedback on the decoders.

All this is a wee bit premature in a way as I hadn't actually intended to add them to the web until my return from an OS trip early in Feb ( I am visiting UK and EU). I am very sorry that full instructions will have to wait until then too... CV structure isn't different but we are doing instructions a bit differently as we try to with many of our products - really wanting to demistify the act of setting decoders up for use properly for the average modeller.

(1) They are from the ground up our own product. They are not assembled by any other decoder Mfr either. (Yes, as mentioned it is an expensive exercise and at the moment its just the "beginning of the end" end of a more than 2 year investment in time and money.)
(2) We set out to create a good solid product, not to break new ground software wise. They have very good back EMF that can be controlled interactively but does not need adjusting loco by loco. They have exceptionally nice slow speed control and easy direct connection for an affordable stay alive device that is at a VERY low price when bought at the same time as the decoder.
(3) The stay alive has two primary effects: It aids slow running and greatly smooths super slow speed running as the decoder is no longer susceptible to frequent momentary power losses as always happens with very slow speed, even in bigger locos. It is NOT designed to make the loco run over large non conductive areas. It can also be parallelled to increase its effectiveness if wanted (to keep it small, we limited its storage ability)
(4) Price is to say the least very competitive. Not as low as train set brands though.
(5) They are available in two sizes, one relatively conventional and one quite small. Both have removeable harnesses. All harnesses have UK orientation on the 8 pin plugs. Both sizes cope with more than 1 amp comfortably.
(6) They are to be available in 2 and 4 function. They are easily used in multiple (even with the same number using decoder lock) and as they are actually no dearer than most "function only " decoders having 6 or 8 functions if you want isn't going to be a problem :-)
(7) They DO have exceptional function control - lots of neat effects that we are doing our best with instructions to make a really easy thing to use.
(8) We will expand the range progressively, but we are not intending to be all things to all people. The range will take its time to grow as I beta test everything for months at each stage.
(9) Yes some modellers do need lots of function - I doo too sometimes, but see (6) above. Anyway... there is no shortage of 6-function decoders but there IS a shortage of decoders with an easily adopted stay alive :-) :-)
(10) Warranty will be good as always but not quite totally responsibility-free goof proof either.

Visitors to my offices have been seeing them in action on my test track for over a year now as we finally tweaked things. We are very happy that they are nice decoders with really good performance (45 minutes for 3.5 metres isn't too bad as slow running :-) )

So far we have 3 models to hand one of them in limited numbers (full productiondelivery only exists for 2 models) with the third only available in limited qtys until later in Feb.. Full initial range of 4 models will not be available until then either...
<ore models will follow later in 2011. We will be shipping to a wider retailer base ASAP, but I really want to introduce them face to face to most dealers, so look for that late Feb

Please be patient, all will be revealed in due course.

regards

Richard
DCCconcepts


I will be calling Richard to place an order today (midday Sydney time) -



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 10:56 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 35th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I think Lenz has had one of these out for several years, now.  Lenz Gold?



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 11:21 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 36th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave got it in one Pete................its the "stay alive" feature..........combined with the price

MaxSouthOz wrote:
I think Lenz has had one of these out for several years, now.  Lenz Gold?
The Lenz powerpack is an add on to Lenz Gold but very expensive........ Decoder and power pack is $100 US (or $95 CDN......I loved writing that:thumbs........5 years ago it would have been $120 CDN)

The powerpack is quite bulky..............I splurged on one for a Dean Goods (see Perry's thread) and I have to say it does everything it says it will do.................run it on to track without power or even run it off the track and its like that battery add........just keeps on going and going



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 20th, 2011 11:26 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 37th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I don't remember Ian buying any power packs for his.  I'll check back with him and let you know, John.



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 21st, 2011 08:12 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 38th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Well, there you go, John.  He didn't mention power packs at the time.  :shock:  He's just confessed.  :lol:

It makes them very expensive, deosn't it?



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 21st, 2011 09:33 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 39th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MaxSouthOz wrote: Well, there you go, John.  He didn't mention power packs at the time.  :shock:  He's just confessed.  :lol:

It makes them very expensive, deosn't it?

A two function DCC decoder with stay alive is approx  A$24 -



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 21st, 2011 09:33 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 40th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1268
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Apology for hijacking the forum - my next post will be about speed profiling :oops:



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 7592     Current time is 06:26 pm Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > RR & Co > Tutorial Speed Profiling
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic

Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.