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RR&Co and Loksound - RR & Co - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Feb 1st, 2011 06:28 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Very droll, Soll.   However, but; as they say in FNQ (Far North Queensland), two will ONLY cost me $160.00 plus freight.

Wot a bargain!   I'm chuffed to bits!

Mindue, ten will cost me $1600  :shock:   I'll start with two.  :pedal



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 Posted: Tue Feb 1st, 2011 04:41 pm
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John Dew
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Seems a bit pricey to me..............I think I will struggle on with the magnets and TC stopping on a dime.......sort of

I had quite a satisfactory day yesterday. I am working on a timetable where at 7.00 am (TC fast clock) a push pull departs from the bay to the brewery end and at the same time the Bset (2 carriages and a loco) departs for the canal bridges at the other end.........both trains stop at imaginary stations at the entrance to the respective storage lines. The B Set loco runs around its train using the double slip and then both return to the branch station where once the push pull is safely in the bay the loco runs around the Bset and we repeat the exercise........the push pull quickly gets out of sync with the B Set of course unless you adjust the departure times

It was satisfying standing in the middle of the room, glass of wine in hand (end of the day), Stan Getz CD on watching the clock click round to 7 am and then see both trains crawl out of the station on their separate routes......cant wait until I get the main line going 

It was by no means 100% perfect and the hand of god was involved from time to time but the main problems were mechanical because of dirty track (I have to get a dapol cleaner) and not the stop markers............stopping and uncoupling were generally consistent except over the magnet in the station where I had problems on saturday.....dont ask me why....in the end I moved the marker BEYOND the magnet and changed the after stop operation so that rather than a jerky shuffle I had the loco reverse slowly for sufficient time to ensure it passed over the magnet.........this achieved perfect uncoupling and covered any inaccuracies in stopping

I dont always change the block release rules (the default is at the stop marker) but I quickly realised I had to do this with the push pull stuck outside the station waiting for the BSet to complete its manoevres on the other side of the room before releasing the block!!

Dont know if this helps but I am inclined to the view that the locos perform better stopping with TC after they have had a couple of runs......bit like skiing really:lol:

Regards

 

 



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 Posted: Tue Feb 1st, 2011 08:02 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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You're right, John.  It could just be a tangent that suits me.  I'm pretty excited about TC driving more than one decoder at a time.  A new brain tester for me.

I heard back from the owner of dccUncoupling.  I had a bit of trouble buying off his website, but he's sending me a special invoice.  Great service!



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 Posted: Tue Feb 1st, 2011 10:40 pm
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wogga
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I have been playing with one of my Fairburns and loading in my sound i ended up speed profiling it again and then entered the stopping consistently debate.

I have decided to do the following, measure the block start to the stopping point and set my brake and stop markers accordingly. I am from now on going to refuse to change them that is what they are physically so that's where they are staying.

I then adjusted the tanks brake compensation accordingly to get the tail to stop where i want it to.

During 20 shuttles it stopped within 10mm consistently!

It works for me gang, give it a go and see if it works for you. I day i will do some scenery and have a header picture.

Regards
to all.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 03:24 am
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MaxSouthOz
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All good, Pete.  What's brake compensation?



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 03:27 am
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John Dew
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Now Max you are having us on:Red Card



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 03:39 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Nope.  No idea, John.  :oops:



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 03:56 am
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John Dew
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Its at the bottom of the engine profile screen.........once you have profiled the loco you can fine tune by adjusting the brake compensation


[3] Brake Test   I do this when I have completed [2]..... You specify the distance ,typically the average ramp you use in your block brake markers, and the speed. Because I am working on the branch with slow speeds I normally use 12" and 15 mph. 



 

On my measuring track I have 12 " marked out for the brake test



 

I adjust the brake compensation (bottom of the screen) until the loco stops on the mark:lol:



The screen above shows the icon for a Brake Test with Occupancy Indicators Sorry I nuked the screen......but you just tab down on the "Measurement " drop down

The screen below shows the icon for a full speed profile with Occupancy Indicators





 


Hope this helps


Kind Regards (but no tick and only a very small stamp:mutley)


 



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 06:03 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Well I never.  That could explain a lot.  :oops:



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 06:33 am
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MaxSouthOz
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I just went back and re-read the tutorial.  I remember that I was having trouble with the Deceleration Time and it was a while before I could get it to profile properly.  I'll have to go back again and re-do it all.

I won't know if it will help until I try it.  I've got so much on at the minute, it could be a week or two.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 10:07 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Good news!  I've been given an extension on a deadline for a paper I'm presenting later in the year.

I might have a go at that Brake thingy.  :shock:



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 02:59 pm
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Michael Thornberry
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Hello Max,
Having been given this extension, an obvious relief to you, could I suggest you NOT fritter-away, this advantage, on "mere modelling".    :It's a no noFinish the paper and then "fiddle" to your heart's content   :thumbs--- "don't put-off today what you won't have time to finish tomorrow". Hope you follow my meaning, mate, :lol::lol:
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 04:27 pm
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John Dew
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Hi Max

The original Gold version arbitrarily added some brake compensation after profiling.......in fact the last run of the profile was a series of brake tests. You could (and often had to) make additional adjustments

One of the updates stopped that and provided the brake test option which is much better but it does mean you should carry out a brake test and adjust the compensation while profiling............you can subsequently adjust it, as Pete has done, without re profiling

Regards 

 

 

 

 



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 08:10 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Hi Michael.

I sent my first draft off last night and I received a very good response.  With all the audio-visual gear they have at the Uni, I was expecting lots of work on cues, etc.  Also, even though the event isn't until September, they need my article for the magazine which goes to every participant by March, to get it ready for the printers.

A lot of my images are screen shots as well as some photos and they have to be out of the text document, but with markers for where they go.  All of the images have to be either on a disc or a stick.   I must be better at this than I thought as only a few adjustments are needed.

Hi John

Thanks for that.  I think I'm on the right track.  I have made a new Schedule with markers in it for testing it.  The profile still looks like it's OK, so I'm just going to play with the controls on the compensator.

Do you have any suggestions as to which way to move the values, please?  I thought I could suck it and see, but a more structured approach will be better.

Cheers



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 09:35 pm
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wogga
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MaxSouthOz wrote:
Hi Michael.


Do you have any suggestions as to which way to move the values, please?  I thought I could suck it and see, but a more structured approach will be better.

Cheers


Hi Max the greater the BC value the harder you are pressing on the brake pedal i thought at one stage 10 = 1cm..ish but it is a goodish guide.

Pete



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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 09:43 pm
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John Dew
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Hi Max

I am afraid my approach isnt very structured and it is a bit suck it and see anyway.

You may find it quicker to use the brake profile test............just specify two adjacent blocks and the speed when the loco enters the test block and stopping distance from the moment the loco leaves the start block and enters the test block.

Put a marker on the track and check how close the loco gets to the marker...........I usually move the compensation in increments of 5..................if I find I have a very large compensation in one direction only I suspect my profiling and re profile

You can use a schedule but you will have to bounce between operate and edit as well as change screens

Regards

 



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 Posted: Thu Feb 3rd, 2011 12:33 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, guys.  I'm thinking that maybe I did address this part of the programme.  I see I have 2.0 cm as the Contact spots which coincides with the measurement from the front/back wheel contact with the rail point, to the coupler face.

The Brake Compensation control reminds me of the Forward/Reverse Trims in the Lokprogrammer.  If it's similar to that I won't be surprised if it doesn't stop the varying stopping points during operations.  I won't know 'till I try it, so I'll certainly give it a go.

John.  What I've done is set up a two block Schedule, each with Brake and Stop Markers.  I can run the loco back and forth quite easily and mark the position where it stops each time.  For my purposes, I don't care where it stops at this point; just that it stops in the same place each time.

I'll set the Comps at say, 10 and run the loco up and down a few times and see what happens.

Cheers



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 Posted: Thu Feb 3rd, 2011 01:42 am
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MaxSouthOz
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OK  Here are the results:-

Opened the box and looked at the Comp settings I had in place - zero in both directions.

Set up one block with a Stop Marker at 50 cm and the other at 30 cm.

Ran the loco up and down five times each way - the loco stopped in exactly the same spot every time.

Changed the Comp setting to 10.  Loco stopped about 20 mm further on, but in the same spot every time.

Set up the block Stop Markers at 140 cm and 30 cm.

Ran the loco up and down five times each way.  It stopped in exactly the same place every time.

So the Brake Compensation setting has no effect, other than to increase the stopping distance as you increase the number in the box.

It got me wondering, though.  The Schedule has no Shuffle loaded into it.  I wonder what happens if I introduce a Shuffle?

I'm going to try making another Schedule and adding Shuffle to both of them.  I'll set them up so that they succeed each other.  That way I'll have a closed loop which I can let run and watch the results.

Back soon . . .



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 Posted: Thu Feb 3rd, 2011 02:17 am
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John Dew
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Hi Max

When you say "stopped in exactly the same place every time" does that mean that when you had a marker in block A at 30cms it stopped at that mark and then when it returned to block B with a stop marker at 50 cms it also stopped at the mark....ie in this case it stopped 50 cms after entering the block?

I assume you have both markers set up as head of train?

If you increase the brake compensation the train should stop short.............if I had a marker at 50 cms and the loco stopped at 20 cms I would increase the brake comp from zero to maybe 20 and expect at the next run for the loco to be that much closer 

Do you just have one stop marker per direction for each block?

A shuffle wont make any difference

Do you ever go to bed......I thought it was night time there

 



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 Posted: Thu Feb 3rd, 2011 02:35 am
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John, currently here in South Oz, it is just after 1PM
Post #54 by Max was at 6.40AM just after he got up.
He will respond soon.

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