Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > RR & Co > Tutorial Blocks and Stop Markers To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Tutorial Blocks and Stop Markers - RR & Co - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Thu Oct 28th, 2010 04:51 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 1st post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I have posted the next section dealing with stop markers. When I have got to the schedule run round I plan to write a section on switches/flagmen and action indicators.....quoting specific examples like Brians

Comments /crticism......whatever

 



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 28th, 2010 09:27 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 2nd post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thats great John, just a few points at the end would it be worth having a screenshot of the switchboard so the "trainee" can see what he should have built now?

When discussing multiple BS marker i think it would be an idea to have screenshot of the block with muliple BS markers shown in one direction.

Secondly can you just clarify the obvious that if the BS markers are to react to a signal they need to stop the train prior to the signal, i.e. if its a block that generally will only be used for passing through, if the next block is occupied then it must have BS markers relative to the signal position.

Its a masterpiece John you should publish it when its done, ask Ian Morton who he uses!



____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 28th, 2010 04:17 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 3rd post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Pete ...............all excellent points:thumbs:thumbs:
Thats great John, just a few points at the end would it be worth having a screenshot of the switchboard so the "trainee" can see what he should have built now?
I did a separate post I should merge/duplicate them
When discussing multiple BS marker i think it would be an idea to have screenshot of the block with muliple BS markers shown in one direction.
Will do

Secondly can you just clarify the obvious that if the BS markers are to react to a signal they need to stop the train prior to the signal, i.e. if its a block that generally will only be used for passing through, if the next block is occupied then it must have BS markers relative to the signal position.
You are absolutely correct.....will do

Signals, I am afraid, are purely decorative on Granby so the treatment of signals in the tutorial is extremely sparse

I wonder if I should post a marker dealing with signalling the tutorial layout before I go on to transfer the engine section......by marker I just mean an almost blank post so it will be in the correct order......the problem is should they be light or mock semaphore.......light would be easiest?    What do you guys think:

Regards

 

 



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 28th, 2010 08:05 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 4th post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

From what can gather John with my limited knowledge signalling can get very complex and you will also have to discuss  the various signalling modules etc. My opinion i would leave it until the tute is done and have it as a follow on in an advanced section. I base this on a comment Matt made in his true head banging mode when he was trying to set up 3 aspect signals and it didn't sound too positive.

 

Pete



____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 01:26 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 5th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Pete........I think you are right.......its taking me longer than I expected to do the rewrite

I have made the other changes you suggested.....and many thanks again



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 01:57 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 6th post
Matt
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John

Brian is right, signals are a nightmare. they can be done a number of ways, i think i done it the hard way. i am still in the building mode and haven't been in the shed for over a month. this weekend should see me brushing away the cobwebs on the toolbox.:roll:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Nov 2nd, 2010 10:51 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 7th post
brianpr1
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote: Signals, I am afraid, are purely decorative on Granby so the treatment of signals in the tutorial is extremely sparse

I wonder if I should post a marker dealing with signalling the tutorial layout before I go on to transfer the engine section......by marker I just mean an almost blank post so it will be in the correct order......the problem is should they be light or mock semaphore.......light would be easiest?    What do you guys think:

I am in favour of setting up a blank framework and basing it on the tutorial layout would give us a starting point. Initially I think it should be based on colour lights - the triggers, enabled trains, conditions etc. would not vary much  on converting to working semaphores for those who can make them. Because we are all, I think, learning as we go I would like it to be open as a discussion topic before we get anywhere near the tutorial format.

I get the impression that we are all looking at signalling our layouts but not quite sure how to set about it. I am certain that pooling what we have each done so far will get us moving.




Choosing sub categories is tricky. What do you think about splitting it into positions: Home signals, starters, block signals on plain track, shunting, calling-on, junctions, and so on?  Taking one type at a time would help make sense of the simple signals before having to cope with the really difficult bits.


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 06:23 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 8th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Brian

Its an interesting problem and one I have been stalling

One issue should we assume the reader has a basic knowledge of signalling practice (there are already some excellent sources here) and focus on how to incoporate some basic signalling into our trial layout?

I was thinking of waiting until I got to the end and then starting a signalling sequence as a series of posts.

At this stage the tutorial layout breaks down into 3 stages...............(its probably time we expanded it) but for now we have

[1] The simple branch with a loop

[2] The terminus to the branch with a mid journey halt

[3] A three platform terminus with a loco spur, the original branch and a second branch

I was thinking of going through the basics with layout 1 then move forward in easy stages

I agree we need to thrash it out here first......my interlocking skills are zero

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 09:52 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 9th post
brianpr1
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John,

Going through your post, I think the tutorial should deal only with making TC work the signals and related issues with interlocking and protection.  As you say, there are lots of resources to guide on how to place signals and everyone's needs will be different.

I don't want to affect your plans for writing the tutorial, but I am at the stage of working out TC signalling operations for my own layout from a base of very little knowledge and no experience.  To clarify my own ideas it would be helpful to start a discussion at this stage and the others may well be in the same position. What do you think, Pete, Matt, Max, Geoff and anyone else out there?

That raises a much more fundamental point: Are we, the current readers, simply waiting to follow the results of your hard work, research and decision making or should we be actively contributing? I am learning how to deal with TC by pitching in and trying things out, my file of discarded trial layouts is becoming embarassingly large, and I expect everyone has the same approach.  I think we could all benefit by pooling our ideas.

Dividing the tutorial layout into 3 or more pieces of increasing difficulty for signalling sounds like a good scheme but would need your decisions on the signal placement and methods of operation.

To move on, would anyone be interested and/or willing to contribute if I started a topic labelled "Signalling with TC" much on the lines of Max's shunting puzzle, attempting to thrash out between us anyone's TC signalling problems?

Regards,

Brian

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 10:05 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 10th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian

I know diddly about signalling, so I'm not going to be much help.  My expertise (what there is of it), is in the sound part of it - more particularly with Loksound.  I know nothing much about how railways use signals (Christrerise and Gwiwer are the guyz for that), so I was planning to just put up some quesswork signals and try to fire them with TC.

I'm afraid I'm a bit of a lurker with all this stuff.  :oops:

I don't know what I don't know yet.  :mutley



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 11:04 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 11th post
brianpr1
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Max.

MaxSouthOz wrote:
try to fire them with TC.
That's the only bit I want to look at in a new topic.  We will all need to make our own decisions about what signals to use, where to put them and what we want them to do, with help from wherever we can get it. I know about as much as you on that.

Implementing those decisions in TC is a whole new set of problems and that's where I think we need to put our heads together in the TC section.

Regards,

Brian

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 04:00 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 12th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 4368
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

 

That raises a much more fundamental point: Are we, the current readers, simply waiting to follow the results of your hard work, research and decision making or should we be actively contributing? I am learning how to deal with TC by pitching in and trying things out, my file of discarded trial layouts is becoming embarassingly large, and I expect everyone has the same approach.  I think we could all benefit by pooling our ideas.


I had always hoped that the tutorial/FAQ  would be a collective operation. 

It has a sort of inherent logic in that everything leads towards the engine run around. Once it is reposted I would like to collectively add either new projects or new solutions

Going through your post, I think the tutorial should deal only with making TC work the signals and related issues with interlocking and protection.  As you say, there are lots of resources to guide on how to place signals and everyone's needs will be different.


AGREED

Dividing the tutorial layout into 3 or more pieces of increasing difficulty for signalling sounds like a good scheme but would need your decisions on the signal placement and methods of operation.


Not my decisions......a joint consensus......then once agreed I could post the final version/narrative into the tutorial



I don't want to affect your plans for writing the tutorial, but I am at the stage of working out TC signalling operations for my own layout from a base of very little knowledge and no experience.  To clarify my own ideas it would be helpful to start a discussion at this stage and the others may well be in the same position. What do you think, Pete, Matt, Max, Geoff and anyone else out there?

I think that is a great idea....... So we have common ground I have posted the very first layout in a separate discrete thread............the challenge is now to work out how to signal it! 

To move on, would anyone be interested and/or willing to contribute if I started a topic labelled "Signalling with TC" much on the lines of Max's shunting puzzle, attempting to thrash out between us anyone's TC signalling problems?

Count me in.............



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC,RR&Co Gold V9 B1 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 07:41 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 13th post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I know diddly squat about signalling, i cheated and posted my trackplan on RMweb and some kind gent placed my signals on it.

However i have had a go, for my platform starter signals i have connected them in parallel to the block signals i.e, when those little siganls at the end of the block go green my platform starter signal will go green as well hope fully. When you double click the block signal you will find it opens a good old TC properties box and heyho you can assign a dcc output! as well as 7,000 other things and rules.

We need to discuss hardware, i have ordered some LDT units for my signals which are light signals, but i guess for semaphores a good old point decoder will suffice?

Bite size pieces, maybe we should start with the layout and get one of our experts to signal it then we can get going.

Whichever way i am in.



____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 08:57 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 14th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

At this point, I'm interested in what hardware we need.  Obviously we need some signals, but do we need more detectors or other gizmos - how are the signals powered?  etc.  etc.



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 09:19 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 15th post
Geoff R
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 8th, 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1317
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MaxSouthOz wrote: Hi Brian

I know diddly about signalling, so I'm not going to be much help.  My expertise (what there is of it), is in the sound part of it - more particularly with Loksound.  I know nothing much about how railways use signals (Christrerise and Gwiwer are the guyz for that), so I was planning to just put up some quesswork signals and try to fire them with TC.

I'm afraid I'm a bit of a lurker with all this stuff.  :oops:

I don't know what I don't know yet.  :mutley

So Max, when we get TC operating semaphore signals correctly, can you help us with a sound file to generate that wonderful "clonk" as the arm returns to its "on" position??  :lol:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 09:28 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 16th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Absolutely, Geoff.  I have a file of Random Clonks waiting.  :mutley



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 09:36 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 17th post
Geoff R
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 8th, 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1317
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Super! That will be F 13 then, fired by TC just after the loco has passed the signal and the solenoid is allowing the signal to drop back off. Would be much like the coupling clanks you describe. (Gosh, I am beginning to sound serious!!)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 09:55 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 18th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12348
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Everything is possible with Loksound, Geoff.  I just wonder if the sound of the signal arm would heard above the train noise in reality?  I have just had another germ of an idea.  I'll post it in a new thread once I've had my breakfast.



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 09:59 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 19th post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Geoff thats easy, flagmen, virtual contacts they would do it, but know ing TC there would be 2,000 other ways to do it.:lol:

Thats a good point Geoff because the possibities are endless and what i would class as background sounds ..cor you could have a field day with them.:cool:



____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 10:05 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 20th post
wogga
Knows nowt about prototypes


Joined: Sat Mar 27th, 2010
Location: Longridge, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Posts: 848
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MaxSouthOz wrote: At this point, I'm interested in what hardware we need.  Obviously we need some signals, but do we need more detectors or other gizmos - how are the signals powered?  etc.  etc.


The choice is wether you are having semaphores or lights Max, semaphores you could use tortoise or cobalts:thud, chill Max don't throw that at me.

For lights i am using the board from LDT for the ECOS which just runs off the track bus, there are several depends on the prototype signal.

http://www.ldt-infocenter.com/english/lsdec_ns_e.htm

LDT products for Lenz


http://www.ldt-infocenter.com/english/products_lenz-digital-plus_e.htm




____________________
Regards
Pete.

ECOS2 with RR&Co Traincontroller and a load of other electronics so i can sit back and watch the trains go by.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 7541     Current time is 06:12 pm Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > RR & Co > Tutorial Blocks and Stop Markers
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic

Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.