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Perry
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Having scrapped the scratchbuild in favour of a modified Scalescenes shed, I have made a start on the side walls.

The shed will be ten bays long and four roads wide.



This still makes it about 2 feet long and the best part of a foot wide.

So far, I have laminated the side walls, added the windows, windowsills and most of the external buttresses.



The internal buttresses are next.

For printed sheets that have to be glued to card, I am using Ryman P1 Universal Labels to make the fixing quicker, cleaner and more even. I tried using a glue stick initially but found it difficult to get a thin even layer of adhesive over a large area. It's almost certainly rather more expensive to use self-adhesive labels, but I'm saving on paper, glue, time and patience. ;-)  I peel the printed label from the backing sheet and lay it printed side down on the bench, then lower the card gradually down onto it starting at one end. A quick roll down with a small rubber roller makes sure that all is firmly stuck and there are no bubbles or creases.

This technique is not my own idea; I found it right here on our forum!

Perry

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Very nice Perry, think it looks GWR to me thou, nice one :thumbs:mutley

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Hello Perry,
These dreams you're having, you know, those ones of wide-open spaces and fresh-air, well I'm afraid to advise you that they are ALL your sub-concious desire for "all things bright and beautiful" and it's spelt GWR, even "The Giraffe" is in favour, mate, so you should really "come-in out of the Cold" and embrace the inevitable future,
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.
PS:- Really nice building

Perry
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Ain't gonna happen, Michael. Phill knows that. :twisted: :mutley

I must say I'm fairly impressed with the Scalescenes kit so far, although card modelling is a lot harder than plastikard modelling. Everything takes five times as long to do.

I'm using my cutting jig to make it easier to hold the card square when cutting out the buttresses.



Perry

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That's going to be a very impressive shed Perry. :thumbs

Like you, I was always a plasticard modeller - not in the same league as you but I used the same material.  Then, having seen Doug's Scalescene models, I just had to have a go.  I doubt I'll go back to plasticard now unless I really have to scratch build something.

As you say, they do take longer but, with a little care and patience (I lack both !!),  they make up into beautiful models and, as I'm not the world's best artist, all the painting is done for me !!

I'm interested in the sticky label idea - I use glue sticks but sometimes I also find it difficult to get a good even and thin covering, particularly on large sheets.  I coat both surfaces otherwise, I find it dries before I get the thing positioned.

Have you tried one of those "fine tip" glue applicators sold by Anne Peak and shown on his (John Wiffen's) site ?  They're fantastic !!

Have a look at them:  http://www.finetip.co.uk


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Thats going to be a great shed Perry.
In a past post elsewhere you I think mentioned loco procedure when entering the MPD.
From my book LMS engine sheds, Chris Hawkins & George Reeve
volume 1 LNWR.
The sequence was.
1. Coaling and taking on water.
2. Ash disposal.
3. Turning.
4. going to shed for inspection or returning to duties.
Hope that info is of use.
regards,Derek

Les
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This is looking really good Perry and should be stunning when finished. May I also offer a word of advice?

I built this shed a couple of years ago and I was delighted with it then, HOWEVER, I didn't spray the finished article with a good matt varnish and now I am paying the price.

Below you can see the effect of two very hot Spanish summers and quite a bit of humidity. This is a shot of the roof which has taken on a strangely green cast.



Second you can see the same effect on the side walls. There is some weathering there but not that much.







Third I also built a Wills two road shed which you can see at the side of the next photo and this was not sprayed either but remains in perfect condition. (The columns in the four road shed are bent because I was clumsy when having to drag a dead loco out).



For me this has been a super kit and I now need to build a second which, hopefully will be better now that my skills have developed a bit, but I cannot emphasise enough how much importance I would place on varnishing the finished article.

Les

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A good tip Les - I must do my Scalescenes stuff :cheers

Perry
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Petermac: Thank you. The fine line applicator looks very useful. I am currently using Anita's Tacky Glue for applying fairly fine lines of adhesive, and Evo-Stik Wood Adhesive for application by brush - simply because I already had a large container of it in my workshop. I got a 'test pack' of P1 lables from Rymans. The pack contains 25 labels and cost £5.99 which is about 24p per label. There is also a box of 100 available for £17.99 which brings the cost down to about 18p per label. I didn't want to commit to buying 100 without trying them first, though.
http://www.ryman.co.uk/0220010460/Ryman-Address-Labels-P1-Universal-289x205mm-A4-25-Sheets/Product

Derek: Thanks for confirming the sequence of events. The track planning is still on-going and I will need to take all this information into account.

Les.:Terrific pictures - fabulous model!

I have already purchased the matt varnish in readiness for spraying the completed model, but thanks for the tip.

I notice that you have a wall between the two halves of the shed. Is this necessary, or did you build it like that from choice? My current train of thought (sorry about the pun) is to have another row of columns instead of the middle wall. I'm also considering using wood strip as the basis of the columns, rather than just relying on card.

On the Scalescenes instructions that at provided, there is a template for building some roof trusses. Did you add these? I can't tell from the photographs, unfortunately. I may well build them out of plastic strip.

If my shed ends up half as nice looking as yours, I will be very pleased.

Perry

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Thats a very impressive start to the Shed ...........you guys are going to wean me away from Plasticard eventually:lol:

shunter1 wrote:
Thats going to be a great shed Perry.
In a past post elsewhere you I think mentioned loco procedure when entering the MPD.
From my book LMS engine sheds, Chris Hawkins & George Reeve
volume 1 LNWR.
The sequence was.
1. Coaling and taking on water.
2. Ash disposal.
3. Turning.
4. going to shed for inspection or returning to duties.
Hope that info is of use.
regards,Derek


I am beginning to think that [1] and [2] may have alternated depending on the Company (?) or local conditions.

I think on one of your earlier threads someone confirmed Ash Disposal first then Coaling and Water.......that was certainly my understanding of GWR practice (which I gather you are not modelling:lol::lol:

Regards

Perry
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John Dew wrote: Thats a very impressive start to the Shed ...........you guys are going to wean me away from Plasticard eventually:lol:
..............
I think on one of your earlier threads someone confirmed Ash Disposal first then Coaling and Water.......that was certainly my understanding of GWR practice (which I gather you are not modelling:lol::lol:

Regards

Ah, at last, someone has realised that I'm NOT modelling G*R.:brickwall:mutley:mutley

Thanks for your comments, John.

I think I may be able to employ a little bit of 'modeller's licence' if those tasks were interchangeable in various parts of the country, which I suspect they may have been.

I think once the Scalescenes shed is finished, I may try my hand at scratchbuilding in card, using what Scalescenes construction is teaching me.

Perry

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:hmmHi again Perry, The loco MPD sequence was likely a bit flexible in the very early LMS days, In the late 20s early 30s a major overhaul took place in LMS shed practice and modernization of facilities ,shed repairs and rebuilds, No1 and No2 coaling towers introduced No1 for the big MPDs No2 for the secondry sheds some of course were not changed. mechanical ashplants brought in.

tracklayouts changed for faster turnaround. I did notice in my book copy that a lot of the big sheds lost their side windows, brickedup?

bit awkward though to operate on a model layout.

Of course the premier line were the first in the country to have mechanical coal plants, first one introduced in 1919.On the other hand some depots were still using shunting horses up to the late 30s. excuse for a horse stable :lol:

regards,Derek

Perry
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As you can see, my shed will have windows just along one side, so I can see what I'm doing when I'm operating. It seems pointless putting them in the back wall though. I need something there to 'stop the eye', and an interior wall is just the job.

My layout will be very loosely based around the end of steam and the advent of the diesel era, although I'm very much of the "If I like it, I'll run it" camp. ;-) I only have myself to please, after all.

The stable is a lovely thought though.........

Perry


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Perry wrote:
The stable is a lovely thought though.........



I was muttering about this in another thread......Kaisers I think.

Bearing in mind the extensive use of horses on the Railways right up to 1947 and beyond it is surprising how rarely one sees a stable building modelled............my point being that the stables were typically near to the work site and once horse power was replaced the buildings were not invariably torn down.......often they were converted to garages/workshops or stores and used as such beyond the end of steam

Perhaps the reason is there are no kits available...........so it would be a scratchbuilding exercise.............one of many on my to do list:sad: 

Regards

Les
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Perry wrote: I notice that you have a wall between the two halves of the shed. Is this necessary, or did you build it like that from choice? My current train of thought (sorry about the pun) is to have another row of columns instead of the middle wall. I'm also considering using wood strip as the basis of the columns, rather than just relying on card.

On the Scalescenes instructions that at provided, there is a template for building some roof trusses. Did you add these? I can't tell from the photographs, unfortunately. I may well build them out of plastic strip.

If my shed ends up half as nice looking as yours, I will be very pleased.

Perry

Thanks Perry, coming from you that is very gratifying indeed.

I've just peered into the shed and it seems as though I did build the roof trusses although why I don't know because on my layout you just cant see them. I also built two internal smoke exhaust outlets but must have got bored with that because I stopped at two. My reasoning would be that as I couldn't see them it was pointless. As for the columns, when I do it again I will certainly use wood/plastic strip.

I built the wall between the shed because in my inexperience I obviously couldn't fathom out another way of holding up the roof which consisted of two lots of two roof panels side by side (if that makes any sense).i.e. I thought four panels side by side would be too flimsy and knowing me I would ensure the roof would fall in. Your suggestion of another row of columns sounds like a major improvement.:thumbs

Les

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Can't wait to see the result Perry some nice useful tips have come out in this thread such as Peters glue tip and your own self adhesive paper as well ,to reinforce Doofers technique.

I started following your foamboard build so i bought some 3mm stuff, it seems to make a more rigid base than card, although saying that my station building is holding up. Yes cutting card can be tough i count 10 cuts on my thickest card..tedious or what.

Perry
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I couldn't source any 3mm foamboard locally which is one of the reasons I scrapped the previous job (but not the only one). The 5mm was too thick for a base layer. With buttresses, plinths and windows, etc, all adding the the thickness I would have had walls over a scale 2 feet thick. I know buildings can be fairly substantial, but on a model it just looks wrong, IMHO.

Unfortunately I have a problem with my hands which is steadily getting worse. They are rather painful most of the time and the effort of cutting lots of 2mm thick card doesn't do them any good at all. Still, I shall persevere. I'm glad this thread is proving useful to others. I'm learning a great deal too, and expect in the future to be able to use more diverse materials and techniques than I have in the past.

I cut and glued up 21 pairs of internal buttress base layers  :shock: for the the shed last night before adjourning to watch X Factor on TV, so I plan on gluing the wraps on them today. They should be fully dry by tomorrow so that they can be added to the wall assemblies.

Perry

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I'm just impressed how you managed to take a photo of yourself cutting the card on your jig !

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Having a helpful wife does have advantages occasionally. :cool wink :mutley

Perry

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Cutting and glueing those "base layers" is a real pain Perry.  Just when you think it's safe to move on, you find there's another 50 of the blighters to do !!!  Then you begin to understand why these kits are so very tough....................:thumbs

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Perry wrote:

I cut and glued up 21 pairs of internal buttress base layers  :shock: for the the shed last night before adjourning to watch X Factor on TV, so I plan on gluing the wraps on them today. They should be fully dry by tomorrow so that they can be added to the wall assemblies.

Perry


Hi, Perry,

Great to see some card modelling going on. Re the buttresses, I have gone down the wooden path several times now, chimneys etc and feel that when I come to a model like this, especially one with a lot of repetitious layering of 2mm stuff I shall use wood. I'm lucky in having a planer thicknesser but wooden mouldings are available in all sorts of thickness's too.


Good modelling so far, looking forward to the rest of this thread.

I have found that Epson inks can discolour with some acrylic varnishes, but a light spray of Lidl W5 water-proofer as soon as the sheets come out of the printer makes them far more resilient to smudging etc and seems to give crisper folds.

Doug

Last edited on Sun Oct 24th, 2010 11:03 am by Chubber

Perry
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Funny you should say that! As I sat here with glue brush in hand, it did occur to me that wood of suitable thickness might be quicker. I'll bear it in mind for future builds. It's strange really; if you look at old books and magazines, stripwood is often quoted as a material for use in modelling buildings. It seems that we have strayed down the modern materials path at the expense of incorporating some of the old ones.

I'm going to risk stating something pretty obvious now, but I'm aware that there are new modellers joining this forum all the time:

When I glue up, be it card with PVA or plastikard with solvent, I work on a sheet of glass. It's benefits are, 1: It's flat. 2: Most glue doesn't stick to it, and 3: it's very easily cleaned of old glue and other residue. I use an old Stanley knife blade as a scraper.

I'm about half way through putting the wrappers on the buttresses now, so I had better get on with it..... :pedal

Perry

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When I glue up, be it card with PVA or plastikard with solvent, I work on a sheet of glass. It's benefits are, 1: It's flat. 2: Most glue doesn't stick to it, and 3: it's very easily cleaned of old glue and other residue. I use an old Stanley knife blade as a scraper.

Bu%%er, why didn't I think of that?  It is a recurring problem with me and I keep an old cutting mat for the job, but will look out for a piece of glass...dreckly!

Doug

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John Ahern new the value of wood in modelling...

















Copyright CV Russell and E Fells  
Reproduced with their kind permissions.


Perry
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I was concerned that glueing up 3 sections of wall end to end, held only by the internal and external buttresses, would not be strong enough. The standard wall section is 4 window bays long. I wanted 10 bays overall. I arranged the wall sections so that the exterior laminate was, in window bays, 4-4-2 and the internal laminate was 2-4-4.

The 2 bay overlap gives ample room for glueing up.

This drawing gives some idea of how it works out. The example only has 6 bays, but it is simple to insert another section of 4 bays in each one, ensuring that the 2 bay units remain at opposing ends:



Perry


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I'm sure that you could include a length of 6-8mm square wood in the length if you are still concerned about rigidity etc..

My old school R'Way club used to collect up all the old rocket sticks on November 6th for the job!

Doug

Last edited on Sun Oct 24th, 2010 01:02 pm by Chubber

Perry
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With the overlap, the double lamination and the buttresses, I think I could almost sit on it without it bending. :hmm

I have been known to collect a few rocket sticks myself in the past, but these days the quality isn't so good.

I've just glued about half of the internal buttresses to the wall assemblies. They are now in the clamp to set nice and hard.

Perry

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Coming on nicely Perry, Ah the old glass still have an old sheet I used years ago, Great too see someone still useing it.
I have a friend locally who is a glazier,So I can scrounge odd squares of good thick plate glass,less delicate than the old thin stuff, Maybe Doug can find a local glazier who will be kind enough to give him an offcut.
Good reminder Doug about using wood with card gives it real strength!
I am delighted with this thread Perry as I have a major MPD to build on my new attempt at a layout, LMS of course.
regards to you both,
Derek

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Both side wall have been completed, inside and out, this morning. Twelve wall units, ten windows, forty-four double thickness buttresses, twenty plinths, and twenty ledges making a total of 150 parts to cut out - not counting the brick paper 'wraps' - and I haven't even started on the end walls or roof!



Make no mistake, there is a lot of work in one of these projects. You're not going to knock one together in a couple of hours like you can a Superquick-type kit - which is why they're called Superquick, of course - but take your time, take care and work accurately and it's not difficult. If you can glue two pieces of card together, you can build one of these Scalescene products.

Perry

Last edited on Mon Oct 25th, 2010 10:20 am by Perry

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Hello Perry,
Looking very good, mate. Are you sure it's not GWR because it looks a lot like the building at "Long Rock" between Marazion and Penzance :lol: I was "forced into saying that", 'onest hi waz,
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

Last edited on Mon Oct 25th, 2010 01:00 pm by

Perry
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Dunno. I've never ventured into that part of the world. :roll: It looks a bit LNER/LMS to me! :twisted:

I've just realised that I now need to build 20 roof assemblies! :shock: :shock: :shock: Ah well, chop down another rain-forest....

Perry

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You do the kit justice Perry that is definately LMS mate there ain't no signs of pasties or clay pipes for it to be GWR! Hows the cutting hand holding up?

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wogga wrote: You do the kit justice Perry that is definately LMS mate there ain't no signs of pasties or clay pipes for it to be GWR! Hows the cutting hand holding up?
:mutley:mutley:mutley
My hands are pretty uncomfortable today unfortunately. The way I look at it is this; if I don't persist and force my hands to do stuff that is uncomfortable, they may seize up even quicker. It's only pain. Perhaps I need a large Scotch......:hmm

On second thoughts, messing about with very sharp knives when you're half p...... well, perhaps not! :cheers

Perry

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I think it is looking very good Perry. I have to say thou Geoff has to look at this cause its deffoe looking like GWR mate, honest it really do's :mutley

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phill wrote: I think it is looking very good Perry. I have to say thou Geoff has to look at this cause its deffoe looking like GWR mate, honest it really do's :mutley

Phill


:lol: Dont mind Phil Perry Thats a typical LNWR-LMS Shed, Gods Wonderfull could not keep the Premier line out of Wales and other Western area,s :mutleyIts coming on a treat, Keep the hands warm Perry, cuts down on attacks from the pain screws.This time of the year the old fingerless gloves come out in my place, Damn arthritis can be a pain.

Happy modeling

Derek

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Hello Perry,
In respect of Whisky the proportions should be as follows:- 2 Measures for External Joint Manipulation and 5 Measures for Internal Lubrication. The External application makes you smell good-enough to drink:twisted: and the Internal application helps you forget just how bad you actually are. :lol: Repeat the prescription when the External smell dissipates. It should only hurt if you swallow too much at once,:thud:thud
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

Last edited on Mon Oct 25th, 2010 04:11 pm by

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shunter1 wrote: .This time of the year the old fingerless gloves come out in my place, Damn arthritis can be a pain.

Happy modeling

Derek


Yup, the 'Steptoes' come out here at this time of year, at least until the gardening tools have reached hand temperature, and the evening dose of one Ibruprofen tablet [but only after a little bit of supper]

Doug

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:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

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It's looking very smart Perry.  Right up there with your plasticard modelling standard and don't forget - trees re-grow !!!!

Not too sure about printer inks..........:roll::roll::roll:

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Well, I had to try some 3mm foam board. If you were not getting along too well with it, there has to be a reason, so I tried a DIY flat warehouse jobby [in 'asbestos' monthly project section]. I found it would not take being rolled with a seam roller to give sharp corners, a major disadvantage in my mind and cuts that were not perfectly square couldn't be sanded right without little lumps of inner foam being pulled out.

I discovered when I came to roll the paper around the top roof line and round the inside of the door cut-out it wasn't very willing to stay stuck until I had let the first application of PVA dry and hence 'prime' the cut surface.

It clearly is a promising material and there has been some nice work shown here using it, but I shall go back to card quite happily.

Given the necessity for squareness and resilience, I think you 'deffo' have made the right choice by starting again in card.


Doug

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dooferdog wrote: Given the necessity for squareness and resilience, I think you 'deffo' have made the right choice by starting again in card.


Doug

Doug your shares in Kelloggs are up again:mutley

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Doug,
I've only used foamboard as more major constructional material, but with a covering of card you can still get the precise corners needed for a neater finish.

As Perry has also found, it's not perfect, but it does have it's uses.
Stu

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Thanks for your input, serious and otherwise! I'm sure I will find out its best uses....

[Sorry Perry, for the hijack...]

Doug

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No problem, Doug. I haven't given up on using foamboard altogether; it's just not suitable for this project.

I'm continuing with making the 20 roof modules today. It's very repetitive! :thud

Perry

Last edited on Tue Oct 26th, 2010 09:04 am by Perry

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I always like to have a Plan 'B' as Plan 'A' doesn't always happen.

I got a bit sidetracked as far as working on the roof modules went. I printed out the side panels for them but then it occurred to me that I might need to modify the entire roof area. I'm wondering how it would work out to have the glazed roof modules constructed to the entire width of the roof area instead of in two sections. To me, two sections would visually suggest that this was not built as a whole shed but as two narrower ones 'stuck together'. I don't want this appearance. I have therefore set about building the end wall. I can then fix this to the sidewalls and add a temporary entrance wall so that I can work out how to modify the roof.
 
If you look at the pictures that Les kindly added to this thread (page 1) you can see how the roof is made up of two rows of units side by side. The middle supporting wall is also visible. I plan on altering the roof as mentioned above, and doing away with the middle wall – just to be a bit different.
 
Here is the end wall under construction.




It will need the ledge at the top and plinths added in due course, but I need to work out how it all goes together first. I printed two of the end wall inner and outer skins, and then stuck them to card before cutting them out, leaving a half-inch margin down one edge. When orientated correctly, the half-inch ‘tabs’ were overlapped and glued up. Six buttresses, three internal and three external, were made up and fixed in place, the middle ones concealing the overlap join between the two parts of the wall.


Perry

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Make your roof as one single unit Perry !!!

Whilst both you and Doug are way ahead of me in accuracy, unless you get each "light" perfect and them all like peas in a pod, they just don't fit !!!!  Mine didn't on Maxmill Engineering and it certainly spoils the final result.

You were (IMHO for what it's worth) very sensible to have forseen this problem.  I didn't !!!! :cry::cry::cry:

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I guess we all learn by our mistakes, and sometimes by the mistakes of others too. Thanks for the heads-up. Your experience, whilst very unfortunate for you, has provided me with some useful guidance. Thank you.

:cheers

Perry

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I'm currently about half way through cutting out the 'customised' roof. I have extended the roof right across the four roads and have moved the northlight windows so that they will be centred over them.

I have clamped the parts in place just to get an idea of how it's all coming together:


 
I'm not really enjoying cutting out the 40 window apertures, but I'm over half way through them now so it won't take much longer.

Perry

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Thats going to be some GWR shed mate :thumbs.

Are we having the inside done out as well. If so will the roof be movable allowing access etc?

Phill

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now we can see it in perspective, it is a big un, hope the fingers hold up for the rest of the cuts,

:thumbs:lol::cool:

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phill wrote: Thats going to be some GWR shed mate :thumbs.

Are we having the inside done out as well. If so will the roof be movable allowing access etc?

Phill

I'm still not sure about the access situation. The way the roof is constructed, I don't think I can make it as a lift-off' unit. I'm thinking that the whole building shell may have to be removeable.

I plan on detailing the area around the entrance to the shed, and a certain amount inside, but how much depends on the shell still being removeable.:hmm

By the way, Phill, your shed recognition skills still aren't up to much, I see!:pedal:lol::lol:

Perry

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owen69 wrote: now we can see it in perspective, it is a big un, hope the fingers hold up for the rest of the cuts,

:thumbs:lol::cool:

I have just this minute finished cutting all the window apertures I and think I'm going to have to give the hands a rest for the remainder of the day. Otherwise I won't be able to do much over the weekend.

It's a cracking-looking shed though. I'm really glad I decided on a version of the Scalescenes one, although I don't think I realised quite how much work was involved when I started. This card modelling isn't an easy option.

Perry

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That shed is coming on a treat Perry. Its a real test of skills and endurance ;-).

Oh" all the Gods Wonderful crowd will be so jealous to see this shed full of beautiful LMS Loco,s

Those orange roof vents look the part. just joking. :eek:

Have Fun ,Derek

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When I started on their factory unit Perry, I thought it looked relatively easy.  It isn't difficult but my word, there's loads and loads of stuff to cut out and glue.  Certainly not a 2 minute build but still extremely satisfying and makes a super model.

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Perry wrote: phill wrote: Thats going to be some GWR shed mate :thumbs.
By the way, Phill, your shed recognition skills still aren't up to much, I see!:pedal:lol::lol:

Perry


No problem, Perry, send it to me when completed and I'll do the necessary alterations to give it a GWR look. It will fit nicely in a corner of my GWR layout, it looks like being good enough to have been built by GWR engineers anyway.

:hmm Surely the LMS didn't have any locos smart enough to fit in such a good looking shed anyway exclam: :pedal:pedal

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Hello Perry,
This model is good-enough to grace anybodies Lay-out, mate, irrespective of GWR or LMS. Excellent modelling,
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

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That must be one big corner you've got left over on your layout, Jeff! Thanks for your kind offer, but as you will probably guess, I'll gratefully decline.

I have been trying to come up with a suitable name for the shed and yard. The nearest I've got is ' Bore Lake MPD', but if one says it quickly, perhaps not. :oops::lol::lol:

Thanks all for the encouraging  and kind comments.

I have some other committments over this weekend, but I'm hoping to sort out the covers for the northlight window panels if I get time. Cutting out the 40 window apertures also means that I've got 40 apertures to cut and glue the covers around and 40 windows to fix in place! :brickwall

Perry


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shunter1 wrote: That shed is coming on a treat Perry. Its a real test of skills and endurance ;-).

Oh" all the Gods Wonderful crowd will be so jealous to see this shed full of beautiful LMS Loco,s

Those orange roof vents look the part. just joking. :eek:

Have Fun ,Derek

Oh, I'm so slow this morning! It took me several minutes before I got the "orange roof vents" gag. Very funny. :doublethumb:lol::lol::lol:

Perry

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All forty 'northlight' windows have been fitted and the twenty roof side walls glued into place. The units have been temporarily clamped into place for test fitting before the roof top panels are constructed. (I used proper clamps this time as SWMBO wanted her pegs back :oops:)



I'm amazed that the units come out to exactly the right length. Wonders will never cease. :doublethumb

I won't get much more done today as I have to go and scare the cr*p out of the local kids at a Halloween event in our local woodland. Time to get even with the little.......darlings! :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

Perry

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It's looking very very nice Perry. I would think with that roof it would be better to lift the complete assembly upward to gain access  to the interior. Perhaps if you could construct a seperate ground/floor section it could fit tight'ish to that? Would give you a chance to get work benches, etc mounted on the floor in there (i know what your llike.) Any thoughts on lighting yet ?:thumbs

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Cheers, Reg. :cheers

I did come up with a plan to support the roof on some 6mm square strips of wood but it would have meant notching each of the roof unit front walls to fit over them. I don't think the resulting structure would have been rigid enough to allow lifting on and off too many times with damage occurring.

I have therefore decided to do pretty much what you suggest; making the whole building lift off of the base. That presents a few more problems though, such as arranging connectors for any lighting I may decide to install. I'm thinking along the lines of installing a few LED's in strategic locations, but I really haven't given it that much thought yet. Certainly a couple of nice big yard lamps just outside the shed are a must. I'm going to another exhibition soon and will see what I can find there.

Another thing to puzzle over is whether to fix the interior supporting columns to the roof or to the floor. Obviously I can't fix them at both ends.:hmm I'm also considering fitting some internal roof braces made from plastic strip, on the suppostion that I can use them to hold the lights in place.

I'll press on and get the shell finished before I sit back and take a long, hard look at the options before I do much more. As you rightly said, you 'know what I'm like'! :roll::lol:

I'm really enjoying this build, particularly as I'm using an 'alien' material for a change.

Perry

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Looking forward to seeing the next phase of the work.  Don't keep us in suspenders too long Perry.

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Interesting!!

I'm also considering fitting some internal roof braces made from plastic strip, on the suppostion that I can use them to hold the lights in place.

If you used channel section you could thread cabling through it to save any chance of adangly thing appearing....:shock:


Doug

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Belay that!  Rush of sh!t to the brain....... [Naval parlance for 'An Idea!']...re the centre row of pillars, make 'em hollow, fix 'em to the deck and run an appropriate supportive channel strip between them to which you could fasten your deck-head lights...


Brainioso Doofo

Last edited on Sun Oct 31st, 2010 05:12 pm by Chubber

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My concern with a building this size is when moving it, it might be prone to twisting.
Doof's idea is a good one, but would leave even less internal structure to brace the shell.
Stu

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Perry wrote:

I won't get much more done today as I have to go and scare the cr*p out of the local kids at a Halloween event in our local woodland. Time to get even with the little.......darlings! :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

Perry


If cutting out all those windows wasn,t punishment enough!

It 's looking superb Perry a monster.

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Stubby47 wrote: My concern with a building this size is when moving it, it might be prone to twisting.
Doof's idea is a good one, but would leave even less internal structure to brace the shell.
Stu


I think that number of accurately made rigid 'lights' securly glued to the side walls would act like the ultimate corrugated card board structure, with the strength of triangulation.

Doug

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That's one of things I like so much about this forum; just drop in a possible idea and immediately one is deluged with brilliant solutions. Thanks everyone! :doublethumb

All I have to do is sit back, pick the solution I like best and build it. Simple(s). ;-) I get to do the easy bits - as usual. :brickwall

OK. How about this one then? I have ten bays and four roads. How many supporting pillars will I need? I'm guessing three rows of ten, one row between each pair of roads. Thirty pillars in all. Does this sound about right, or can I get away with less? It's going to look like a gory forest in that lot!

Perry

Last edited on Sun Oct 31st, 2010 08:49 pm by Perry

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You could have just substantial posts down the centre.
Given that the roof would be as light as possible, each section may only have needed in the middle of each span. Each post might have needed tying together at the top, so an rsj running the length of the shed, fixed above each of the central pillars.

This may also help with manual access to dead locos and for track cleaning.

Stu

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I've a copy of 'GWR at Swindon' somewhere [cellar/loft?] the errecting shed must be of comparable width, or more. I don't recall dozens of supporting pillars there, I'll find the book and have a look-see.

Doug

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I have a similar situation on a couple of buildings ,i chose to run the lighting wiring down the walls behind a partition and drilled through the floor,(baseboard) . it means disconnecting a pair from a choc block down below (for Doof)  if i need to lift the building, but how often is that.

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Hi Perry, Looking through various photo,s of northlight sheds some being reroofed it looks like the pillar,s were spaced at about 35-40 ft intervals a bit of a guess because one can only judge the length by locos parked along side them, They do all seem to have 2 roads between rows of pillars.
Hope that helps?
Derek

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Thanks again for all the helpful responses.

It seems like I will be able to go along with what Derek says; have a row of pillars down the centre, leaving two roads either side. That will look better and improve access. An RSJ down the length of the shed would provide sufficient support over the pillars.

Now another question - well, there had to be, didn't there? If I decide to install interior lighting, what colour does the lighting need to be? LED's are available in white, bright white, yellow, etc, etc. I'm thinking that bright white may be too overpowering, so the choice is between 'ordinary' white and yellow. Bearing in mind I am trying to create a rather gloomy atmosphere on the layout, I'm thinking yellow might be the way to go. I don't want the shed lights to light up the whole area of the layout. Your opinions would be greatly valued.

Perry

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Perry isn't there a nice golden glow LED? i understand its to give a nice effect?

Pete

Last edited on Mon Nov 1st, 2010 03:32 pm by wogga

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Personally I don't like LEDs for layout lighting at all. The light is too cold, Most people go for Yellow LEDs as well which is most unrealistic unless you are trying to emulate modern day sodium lamps.
Even old gas lights were not yellow as some would make you believe, gas mantles when lit were incandescent white!

I find good old grain of wheat filament bulbs much better, a little too bright on 12V so I usually wire 2 in series giving 6V across each bulb. Alternatively use a separate 9V power supply.

Cheers!

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I will be needing to arrange some inset trackwork for my loco shed. I have had several helpful suggestions as to the best way to achieve this effect elsewhere on this forum.

However, I was fiddling about with some offcuts of 5mm foam board today and happened to notice that is about the same 'thickness' as Peco Code 100 track.

I sliced off one side and the foam layer, leaving the other side layer intact:



I flipped it over and found that it is a pretty good match for height:



Obviously with a bit more care in cutting out the recess to cover the sleepers and moulded chairs, this could form the basis of the shed floor. A strip of some appropriate thickness card could be used to form the raised area between the rails to match up.

I'm also considering cutting recesses into the foamboard to receive the bases of the roof supporting pillars.

Perry

Last edited on Mon Nov 1st, 2010 04:07 pm by Perry

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Thats a great idea Perry and without the mess of using filler.
You could use white or very light yellow LED,s in the machine shop area of the mpd, welding and such would be going on, probably mostly gas welding although arc welding would have been used in the 1940,s onwards, and lathes and other machine tools would need good lighting.
cheers,Derek

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Perry i use white L E D 'S and colour those with a very watered down acrilic .in a workshop a blue/ish tint in ,offices a watered down flesh colour . If you try this ,let the paint dry before testing to see the result. it is easy to scrape the paint off again if thats not to your likeing. 

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you can get warm white L.E.D`s now, they are very close to normal incandescent lights,
I use them for lighting carriages, or also warm yellow are not to bad.

:lol::cool:

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shunter1 wrote: Thats a great idea Perry and without the mess of using filler.
You could use white or very light yellow LED,s in the machine shop area of the mpd, welding and such would be going on, probably mostly gas welding although arc welding would have been used in the 1940,s onwards, and lathes and other machine tools would need good lighting.
cheers,Derek

The layout plans actually include a separate repair shed facility where I shall install my arc welding simulator unit. :thumbs

Perry

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LEDs come in a variety of "whites" which give various realistic tones.  I don't like incandescent globes at all.  There is always a risk of fire and they draw too much current.  I am getting close to 100 lights on my layout (not counting the mobile ones).  LEDs are the only things I feel safe with. 

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LEDs v Filament:
Leds - low current - a 1 amp supply can do 35 units & cool ( no heat) variety of colours
Filament - requires more current - usually 60-80 mA each, creates heat so placement has to be careful - colour variety limited.

Both have their uses.

Max has an arc welder unit.

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Interesting discussion. :hmm

I think I will go with LED's. They're what I'm familiar with and I concur with the thoughts on the safety and power requirements aspects

Thanks again, guys.

As an aside, it's amazing what needs to be altered when customising one of these shed 'kits'. I just made the front lintel and I had to cut the coverings about to get the smoke stains in the right places - centred over the roads! It would have looked really weird if they'd been off to one side. :shock:

Perry.


Last edited on Mon Nov 1st, 2010 09:27 pm by Perry

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I constructed the ten roof panels today.

They were each constructed from 1mm thick card, each one 297mm long and 62mm wide. Each panel has a 3mm wide strip scored and bent along one long edge to form the slight angle at the edge of the roof.

I printed off the roof cladding supplied but only used the panelled part. I lined the underside of the roof panel with some matt black paper that I happened to have laying about. Once the adhesive on this had set sufficiently, I flipped the panel over and clad the top surface with the printed pannelling. These were cut into lengths along the panel lines, then butt-jointed on the face. The joins are surprisingly hard to see unless you really look hard for them. Once the roof vents are in place, I don't think they will be noticeable at all.





I'm going to leave the roof panels to dry overnight before I glue them to the fronts and sides. Each unit will then be glued in place before the flashing is added.

The corner covers still need making up, as do the wall cappings.  The lintel is made but not fixed in place yet. The interior and exterior roof vents have yet to be constructed and there is still the issue of the supporting pillars.

That's about all I can think of on the 'To Do' list to finish the basic construction work. I'll add a floor of foamboard later.

Please excuse the colour cast on the photos. They were taken quickly in very difficult lighting conditions. :oops:

Perry

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Well done Perry, Its a bit of a test of your endurance but it will be a great shed!
I see GEM models do a line of 4mm whitemetal shed accessories. machine tools lathes ect thats apart from their loco kits,may help?
Derek

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Thanks Derek.

I'll have a look at the GEM range. I had no idea they did stuff like that.

:cheers

Perry

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Your shed is coming on well, Perry. I have used the GEM shed clutter and have another set ready for use around a second shed. You can see some of the items in my Mangarth - Loco Shed photo on the right hand side of the forum front page.

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I made a bit more progress this morning.

I cut two strips of 2mm thick card, 9.5mm x 650mm to form the wall capping. The wraps for these were cut at the printed join lines and when glued butted up to each other, the joins are virtually undetectable. I had thought about using several shorter pieces for the wall capping base layers, but thought it would be hard to conceal the joints.

I have glued the northlight modules in place and ensured that the whole building is square and level. I consider that it would be better to add the roofs once the modules were fixed and firmly set.

Once the wall cappings are dry, I will glue them in place.

Perry


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The wall cappings and lintel have been fixed in place and all ten roofs glued on. Externally, there's just the flashing to do when it's all dry.

While that lot sets off, I'll make a start on the exhaust hoods and vents. :thumbs

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That's coming along very nicely mate, can you just confirm that it is an engine shed and not an undercover football pitch, it's HUGE :doublethumb

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Knowing my complete aversion to anything even remotely connected with football, I can guarantee that it IS a loco shed. :roll::lol:

I know it looks big on its own, but my opinion is that a shed that will hold eight large locos would not be out of place in the size of MPD that I am modelling. A two-road, four-bay shed would look 'lost'. Once the coaling tower and ash plant, etc., are built, I think the shed will look about right. If it doesn't then I've wasted my time......:shock:

Perry

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Looks superb Perry. I really like the way you have done the roof panels, nicely breaks up a large area of flat material. I am looking forward to seeing how you treat those huge side windows - they could be a challenge.

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Hello Perry,
Really impressed with this Shed Build. Exceptional modelling, mate, looking really good and in-keeping with your Yard requirements,
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

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http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=47520

hope this link works, it shows the inside of the old Thornaby 13 rd shed.
might be or some help as to what went on inside.

:hmm:lol::cool:

Last edited on Thu Nov 4th, 2010 04:38 pm by

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Wow Owen, that is fascinating. I hope I dont hear any diesel lover tell me that steam sheds were filthy old places after seeing that lot. Also answers the question about internal walls - it seems there were 1 road, 2 road, 3 road and several roads sheds.

Les

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owen69 wrote: http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=47520

hope this link works, it shows the inside of the old Thornaby 13 rd shed.
might be or some help as to what went on inside.

:hmm:lol::cool:

Thanks, Owen. I've bookmarked that page. It should prove really useful later on.

:cheers

Perry

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That's a terrific link for detail pictures.Pity they aren't yours Owen, then I could have put them in our prototype archive.

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I've just finished cutting out and assembling eight pairs of exhaust vents! :shock::shock::shock:

I got quicker as I went along, but they are a bit fiddly to start with.

I thought I would see what eight look like on the roof; two over each road. I'm thinking that four per road might be overkill. :hmm

I'll do a temporary lay-up and hopefully pop off a couple of photos when they are dry enough to handle.

Perry

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Hi, Perry,

I can't get my book on the scanner to send you a pm without endangering the spine, but it looks as though the roof spans, left to right were between 44ft and 52ft and supporting pillars were between 17ft and 21ft apart, if I've read the drawings correctly. The spans look huge! It's funny, until the subject is raised like this, I was more interested in the machinery etc., never thought of the engineering behind the buildings, as all my scene is 'micro' by comparison.

Doug

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Well we all said it was great to have the master builder back and boy he aint dissapointed us at all has he :cheers. That looks a great shed build there Perry, got to be up there with the goods shed i say.

Loving the thread on this build, wonderfull.  The link Owen posted as well is very good, bookmarked it myself.

Phill

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Having made eight sets of exhaust hoods and vents, I stood them roughly in place on the roof, just to get some idea of how they were going to look:





I think I'm going to need twenty vents; five over each of the four roads just to make it 'look right'.

I'm not entirely happy with the appearance of them either, so I may decide to scratchbuild some in plastikard. I haven't made my mind up yet.


Perry

Last edited on Fri Nov 5th, 2010 09:38 am by Perry

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dooferdog wrote: Hi, Perry,

I can't get my book on the scanner to send you a pm without endangering the spine, but it looks as though the roof spans, left to right were between 44ft and 52ft and supporting pillars were between 17ft and 21ft apart, if I've read the drawings correctly. The spans look huge! It's funny, until the subject is raised like this, I was more interested in the machinery etc., never thought of the engineering behind the buildings, as all my scene is 'micro' by comparison.

Doug

Thanks for the info, Doug.

I agree, it's strange how things have a habit of suddenly leading us off somewhere completely new. I enjoy learning new things during a build, such as how and why thing were done the way they were. That's one of the things that keeps me interested.

Perry

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Les wrote: Wow Owen, that is fascinating. I hope I dont hear any diesel lover tell me that steam sheds were filthy old places after seeing that lot. Also answers the question about internal walls - it seems there were 1 road, 2 road, 3 road and several roads sheds.

Les


:hiLes and all, Owens link to Thornaby is superb, One thing about our loco sheds at least LMS versions and probably all the other companies including BR, Was they constantly evolved, You could take an older Webb design of shed and rebuild it often happened on the prototype.

Loco sheds in the steam era had a huge problem with Roof coverings, erosion caused by acids from burning coal ate the roof supports away. The old companies had a rule that contractors had to use copper nails not iron, If iron had to be used a bitumen dip before use was advised to stop corrosion.Corragated metal sheets were tried very briefly in the early part of the 20th century, not a good experiment, this material was dropped very quickly.

In the 30,s the LMS went on a major refurbishment of engine sheds, northlight style roofs were introduced, concrete pillars replaced the old cast iron jobs, roofing material switched to concrete probably asbestos sheeting as well was used.Some sheds had major rebuilding probably to a standard layout design, other less important sheds were likely rebuilt around the old floor layout design, So we could see a variety of road lanes in sheds.

So I think we can be safe to model sheds with 2 lanes or a mixture, Glad Doug got some real data on roof support spacing of pillars. Very difficult to judge from just photo,s.

Hope my little post? :lol: is okay in your thread Perry.

regards all,

Derek

Last edited on Sat Nov 6th, 2010 11:01 am by shunter1

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Absolutely, Derek. All good, useful information. :thumbs

Perry

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For the sake of trying them out, I've decided to make up the remaining twelve external exhaust vents as supplied by Scalescenes. I tarted up the ones I had already made with a few daubs of acrylic paint and, now that there's no white edges showing, they don't look too bad. As the shed will be  situated at the rear of a 3-foot wide baseboard, I have a feeling they will look OK.

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All twenty external vents have been made up and the exposed white edges painted with acrylics.

I have stood them in approximately in the locations where I plan to put them, just to see the overall effect:





I have almost finished cutting out and assembling the remainder of the internal vents. It's a bit of a laborious task! :shock:

Before the vents are fixed in place, I have to sort out the flashing. Then I will set the internal vents and supporting girders, etc, in place while I can still turn the shed upside down to work on it. I don't want to risk crushing the external vents, so they can go on last.

Perry.


Last edited on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 12:30 pm by Perry

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it certainly looks impressive, even if a bind to cut &glue , plod on mate plod on ...

:thumbs:roll::lol::lol::cool:

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Thats one heck of a shed Perry, some hard time went into that. Love it.

Phill

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I getting there now.  :doublethumb

All the flashing has been printed, cut, folded and glued into place. With the exception of actually glueing the external vents in place, the outside of the building is finished. It will all be sprayed with matt varnish once the inside is finished.

I won't do any weathering on it until the layout is much further advanced in development. That way the shed can be 'tied in' to it's surroundings better.

I'm going to have a think about the inside now; the supporting columns, beams, etc. I also have to think about how and where I'm going to fit the LED's for the lighting.

Perry

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The potential for some great loco/shed photos are becoming more and more evident as you progress along Perry.

Any thoughts on the differing media? Plasticard vs Card/paper. I suspect that the main body of the shed came together a lot quicker in card/paper than it might have in plasticard? 'tis what I have found so far anyway.

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Marty wrote: The potential for some great loco/shed photos are becoming more and more evident as you progress along Perry.

Any thoughts on the differing media? Plasticard vs Card/paper. I suspect that the main body of the shed came together a lot quicker in card/paper than it might have in plasticard? 'tis what I have found so far anyway.

It might surprise you, Marty, but I find card modelling much harder work than using plasticard. I thought at the outset that this project would be quicker, easier and cheaper in card, but I think it failed in all three aspects.

I'm fairly pleased with the result, but I can't help feeling it would have looked better in embossed plasticard.

One of the main stumbling blocks has been the length of time it takes to cut the various thicknesses of card, especially the 2mm stuff. I can score and snap off a piece of plasticard accurately in a few seconds, whereas I have to make several passes with the knife to cut the card right through - and even then the cut is not as 'clean' and accurate as I would like. Maybe that is just my lack of skill and experience.

I find solvent easier, cleaner and quicker to work with than PVA which just seems to get everywhere other than where I want it.

I hate to think what this model has cost me. :shock: When taking into account the printer ink, the various thicknesses of card I had to purchase, several new knife blades, a couple of glue sticks, the PVA, the list just goes on. I know there is still printer ink left, and I still have some of the card and PVA, etc., but the initial outlay was quite large. It was surprising how much card this model swallowed up.

Having said that, the cost of sufficient embossed and plain plasticard to complete a building of this size would also have been considerable.

I take my hat off to the card modellers amongst you. It's not as easy as it looks, or as easy as I thought. Maybe I should stick to what I know. (No pun intended.) However, don't let anything I've said here deter anyone from having a go at card modelling. It obviously suits others more than it suits me.

Will I build in card again? Maybe. Will I build in plasticard again? Definitely.

As I wrote this, the shed is on the bench beside me. I found myself looking at it and wondering - should I rebuild this in plasticard? :hmm

Perry



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I have test-fitted the first piece of 5mm foamboard that will form the floor.



The apparent curve in the sidewall is due to my photography, not the model. :???:

I will make a second piece to fit and project outside of the front of the shed to form an 'apron'.

The idea is to fix the floors to the baseboard so that the building itself just slips over them. I can then remove the building for track cleaning or to recover a failed loco. I intend to set the track into the floor using the method I showed previously:





I need to cut a slot the width of the rails initially, then turn the whole lot over and trim out the underside to accommodate the sleepers. Then I will lay the track, fix the floor over it, and slip the shed into place. That means I can leave the supporting pillars (yet to be made) attached to the floor. Where they sit beneath the roof won't be visible so no physical attachment will be needed. I can simply brace the pillars to each other by means of cross-beams. This also leaves me the option of adding lighting later as I can fix it to the cross-beams and not the roof. This negates the problem of needing to disconnect wiring each time I want to lift the shed. A strip of card will be set between the rails to bring the centre section up to the height of the main floor.

Perry

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I'm impressed with the thoroughness you have applied to this project, which has turned out [IMHO] very well.

I'm also sad that you feel it has not been a totally positive experience, but you are seeing it 'with an honest mother's eyes', i.e. you can see  faults as well as the good parts in your progeny.

I too would have been fazed by cutting out so many pillars, were it my build I would have used strip wood [I know...hindsight..] but you yet have the fun of weathering it. Plastic just does not weather so well or so easily. have a go with a new sharp blade round the back, out of sight, splash on some watercolours etc etc.

Below is a close-up of Scalescenes brick paper on 2mm boards as part of my tunnel mouth, I do not believe I could do this with plastic card, mechanically and chemically the surface is totally different.

Good luck with the finishing, use the back unseen side to have a try-out, far be it for me to offer you advice but I'm happy to do so if you feel like a pm session.

Doug


Last edited on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 10:49 am by Chubber

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I'm not sure I am "seeing it 'with an honest mother's eyes'". I rather feel that perhaps my perception has become biased by working almost exclusively with plastic. I know what can be done with it, and I know how to achieve what I want. That's not the case with card.

The weathering on your tunnel mouth is excellent. It has inspired me to have a go, but probably not until the shed is set onto the layout. Thanks for your kind offer of assistance. If I get any problems or need any help, I will indeed contact you.

Perry

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Looking brilliant Perry, materials to model with take a bit of a learning curve, Finding the right glues and such, Doug is a wizard with card and his models really show the versatility of card as a medium.
Maybe another material for big builds is thin ply at least for the heavy stuff.
I have been lucky with a local bakery, The trays they use for carrying loaves and such have a nice thin ply base, Often they just chuck them out when they have to many, So my friendly baker gives them to me for Free! if I want any.
Maybe a visit to the bakers may get you more than a loaf.
regards,
Derek

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You're very lucky there. I tried to find some very thin ply for a job a while back but couldn't source any within 25 miles of where I live. I did find a few very small pieces in a couple of model/toy shops, but the prices were silly. I wasn't prepared to start paying carriage for sheets of ply to be delivered so I gave it up as a lost cause. :sad:

.........................................................................................................................................................................

I needed to get the shed off the bench for a while so I had room to do some other stuff, like painting the edges of the exhaust vents. I put the shed on the bare baseboards, then I couldn't resist standing a few locos in it. :roll:



I'm wasting far too much time. I must get on with those vents........:roll::thumbs

Perry

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Y'know, I'm not sure that shed is big enough... I mean, it will only take 8 locos....

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Stubby47 wrote: Y'know, I'm not sure that shed is big enough... I mean, it will only take 8 locos....
:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

I don't actually have many more than that! :thudIt was designed to take 8 large locos, but more so to look as though it would be big enough for the MPD it is situated in. A 2-road shed only half the length, for example, would have looked completely out of proportion.

It is a BIG 'cardboard box', though!

Perry

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Perry wrote: Stubby47 wrote: Y'know, I'm not sure that shed is big enough... I mean, it will only take 8 locos....
:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

I don't actually have many more than that! :thudIt was designed to take 8 large locos, but more so to look as though it would be big enough for the MPD it is situated in. A 2-road shed only half the length, for example, would have looked completely out of proportion.

It is a BIG 'cardboard box', though!

Perry


Looks great with some loco,s posed, I see you have a couple of ER visitors ;-), Try your local cake shop,s /bakeries, supermarkets they often have the kind of wood trays I mentioned. Maybe even plastic stuff that can be used, :lol: I shall be asking you to go skip hunting next.

Those MPD,s could be huge and cover vast area,s :cry: makes it very tough to cover everything, You could have a 40ft shed and still not be able to scale it exactly to the protoype, Compromise is the name of the modders game as long as you have the feel of the real thing, It makes most of us happy.

Regards,

Derek

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 That's looking really good, Perry and having the loco's in front makes it stand out even more:doublethumb

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can`t beat a bit of posing , loco`s that is !! two streaks and a duchess ? some pedigree.
it all looks really well .

:doublethumb:cool:

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The streaks, the Duchess, and the Class 47 are all over 30 years old, not converted to DCC, and are pretty knackered. They will probably only ever be used static around the layout, if at all. It would cost more than they are worth to bring them up to scratch, bearing in mind the quality of today's RTR locos. It would be better to replace them completely.

Still, as you say, you can't beat a bit of posing. :cool wink They've been useful for working out dimensions and clearances, etc. during the planning stage of various layouts.

All twenty internal exhaust vents have been painted and fitted in place:



I used a narrow strip of card as a spacer so that they are all the same distance from the internal roof edge. I marked the centre lines for each row on the strip, which made positioning them quick and straightforward.

Once they're dry, I'll attach the external ones.

Perry

Last edited on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 05:18 pm by Perry

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Perry wrote:
Once they're dry, I'll attach the external ones.

Perry


'ere! 'ang on... lights!? We want to see the lights in first before the exterior chimbleys.... or do you have another cunning plan that I've missed? :thumbs

Thanks for the thoughts on the plasticard/card & paper mediums.

I'm leaning towards using card/2mm mdf/ply and printed paper for modelling items further away from the eye and plasticard for those prominent parts of the layout that need a little more attention to detail. But then, I'm only a beginner and the goal posts are constantly moving anyway.

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To all intents and purposes, the main 'shell' of the shed is finished - apart from weathering. The twenty external exhaust vents were fitted last evening. I made up and used a card template to ensure that they were correctly positioned.





Now I have to think about sorting out the interior; letting the track into the foamboard floor, making the pillars and beams, etc, so there is still a fair bit to do. The lighting may not follow for some time, Marty.

Perry

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Excellent work Perry - shown off to perfection with real locomotives  present.

Derek

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Terrific stuff Perry; dont forget to varnish when weathered.:roll:

Les

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Marty wrote: Perry wrote:

Thanks for the thoughts on the plasticard/card & paper mediums.

I'm leaning towards using card/2mm mdf/ply and printed paper for modelling items further away from the eye and plasticard for those prominent parts of the layout that need a little more attention to detail. But then, I'm only a beginner and the goal posts are constantly moving anyway.


My first attempts at the carcass for my Ringwell Alarm Clock factory were in 3mm MDF, quickly abandoned after I ended up like Dusty Miller very quickly; I just could not face the idea of sitting at my hobby desk wearing a dust mask, so that was deffo out.

I tried some thin ply, it almost cut with a Stanley knife although the edges splintered etc..

Digging through my cupboard recently I found some ex-Lidl Acrylic and Oil painting board. I bought quite a bit as I was painting a lot at the time. [Peter Mac has one of my prints!] It's 2mm thick, made of a hard card inner and very stiff. One face is covered with a fine mock linen texture, the other with a smooth brown paper. It cuts with a small Stanley snap-off knife and comes in 400x300mm size and I shall be using some in my mill building.

I don't know if you have Lidl in Oz, Marty, but I expect you have discount craft/art shops where the same thing is available, and I'd suggest you look at some before you go down any other route. As its sold as a 'cheapy' alternative to proper canvas on frames, I wouldn't think it would cost too much.

Just a 'fawt'.

Doug

[apologies for the hijack]

Last edited on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 12:15 pm by Chubber

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Les wrote: Terrific stuff Perry; dont forget to varnish when weathered.:roll:

Les

Not being familiar with card modelling, can I varnish before weathering, and then again afterwards?

Perry

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Oh! Er, hmmmmm... never done that so don't know I'm afraid.:???:    I guess Doofer is your man.

Les

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This is what I use, about £3 a tin from Lidl. I use it on my walking boots, cagoul etc too!

I would lightly spray the inside with a light single coat of  large model like the shed, and a single light coat on the outside before weathering, especially if I do not happen to be using Epson Durabrite ink which is pretty forgiving and slightly water resistant so that I can wipe off any coc%-ups. Then I repeat after weathering, powdering etc. I mask the windows with post-it notes if I don't want a very slight misting effect on the glazing, however, for industrial buildings I think it actually adds to the 'grubby' look.

If I knew that the model would be subject to the effects of moisture from, say, ballasting, I would squirt some into the lid and apply by brush along the bottom edges.

When wrapping something complex where the texture paper must be folded and handled a lot, or where it must be indented to imitate textured spots, I spray the printed sheet before I start to use it.

As always, test an unseen patch of your own ink first!!!!




Hope that helps,


Doug

Last edited on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 03:01 pm by Chubber

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It certainly does help, Doug. Thanks very much! :doublethumb

I spent a little while working on the shed floor this morning. I trimmed the 5mm foamboard to length, then drew the plan of the four roads in soft (4B) pencil onto the top surface. I cut right through the foamboard initially, removing pieces 19mm wide, leaving a 25mm strip across the 'back end' to hold it all together, and to make a walkway behind the buffers later on.

The foam board was then turned over and lines 6mm from the edge of each track slot marked out. These will allow room for the sleepers. I ran the knife gently along the marks, only cutting down far enough to leave the bottom face material intact. This will become the top face and butt against the rails when turned the right side up. Surprisingly, you can actually feel the tip of the knife blade run along the inside of the face material, and I didn't break through at all despite having to cut over 17 feet total distance like that. I then ran the knife point along the cut edges of the track slots to release the strip I had just cut. Once most of the 6mm strip had been peeled away by hand, I removed the remaining foam by scraping gently with a small screwdriver. The foam comes off quite cleanly like this.

I put the floor cut-out down onto the baseboard and laid some old pieces of scrap track in the slots before putting the shed back over it. Bear in mind that these are mangled old pieces of scrap track with bits of wire and solder, etc, attached to them and they are not the full length of the shed.



The join between the two pieces of foamboard can be seen about halfway down the shed. This join will not be visible when the floor is finished because the foamboard will be stuck down so that it's all level and a paper facing will be applied.

You may just be able to see the centre line I drew between the two middle roads. This was the initial marking out line that I drew and all measurements for the position of the tracks was taken from this datum. It also marks the position of the row of pillars that I have yet to make.

Perry

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That's going to be one very impressive shed. Would it be worth laying the track on a strip of thin card to raise the rail head a smidgeon above the foam board floor? Might make it easier to clean the rail without damaging the floor.

Cheers
Dave

Last edited on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 04:05 pm by

Perry
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ElDavo wrote: That's going to be one very impressive shed. Would it be worth laying the track on a strip of thin card to raise the rail head a smidgeon above the foam board floor? Might make it easier to clean the rail without damaging the floor.

Cheers
Dave

Good idea, Dave. I'll see what it looks like when the foamboard is pressed right down onto the surface of the baseboard. It's laying pretty loosely in the photo. You're certainly right about it making track cleaning easier though. I suppose I could have done with 4mm foamboard really! :roll: The manufacturers obviously didn't think about the needs of loco shed modellers when they designed their product. :thumbs A lack of foresight, that's all it is. :mutley

Perry

P.S. I've just tried this with a strip of 1mm card and it makes all the difference. Spot on! Excellent idea. Thanks Dave. :Happy

Last edited on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 04:21 pm by Perry

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Work is underway fabricating the supporting pillars. I decided not to use the card ones provided in the kit for reasons of strength and possibility of damage as illustrated by Les's post further up this thread.

I had some 6mm square stripwood 'in stock' so I cut off a number of 70mm lengths to form the bodies of the pillars. I also cut strips of 1mm card which were 9mm wide and 72mm long.

The idea is that I can construct 'H' beam pillars that will slot into holes cut in the floor at one end, and receive a longitudinal beam in the other.

The photo show the relevant parts and a mock-up of the floor and top beam arrangement:




With a coat of suitably 'mucky' paint, they should look the part.

Perry


Last edited on Sun Nov 14th, 2010 01:09 pm by Perry

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:hiPerry, Did you get to finish all the pillar supports and weather the big building?

regards,

Derek

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All the pillar supports are in place, as is the flooring. I haven't yet weathered the building as I have a few more things to do first - including spraying with matt varnish to seal it.

The raw edges of the foamboard flooring need colouring before I do much more. I'l probably give them a quick blow over with some acrylic paint in the airbrush. Only the first few inches of floor and track are visible from the end of the shed, so I don't need to be too fussy with it.

It's still on my 'To Do' list, along with several other jobs. I'l post another photo or two when there's something to see.

Perry


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Looking good.

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Having tested some aerosol varnish on a scrap window and piece of printed brickwork this morning, I masked all the shed windows with card or paper - all fifty of them - in preparation for spraying. There are forty on the roof and ten along one main wall :shock:.

I then sprayed the whole of the outside of the building with matt varnish. I wanted the outside surface of the windows to remain reasonably reflective, which they obviously wouldn't if they were coated with the varnish. Some areas of them may get a dusting of grime from the airbrush later, but not over the whole lot.

Once the varnish has dried, I'll spray the inside as well, although the inside of the windows won't need to be masked off. It won't matter if they pick up a grimy appearance, because they would have done so anyway when the shed was full of smoke and steam.

The separate floor will also get a coat of varnish and some painting before re-assembly.

I'll have to paint the rails on the four shed roads before fixing the track in place because once the flooring and strips between the rails are fixed in place, painting would be very difficult, if not impossible. It's another example of needing to pre-plan a job to ensure things are done in the right order. :thumbs

Perry

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:doublethumbNice one Perry, Its all coming together! That massive shed will be a main attraction on your MPD.Also I like your foreman/ roster desk on another thread.

Goodluck with the shed finish.

Derek

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Thanks, Derek.

All being well - and the varnish being thoroughly dry - I'll try to get the floor sorted out and painted tomorrow. I've got a pair of Peco water cranes to go on the apron, but they look as though they need a bit of work to bring them up to scratch.

Still plenty to do! :thumbs

Perry

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I took a long, hard look at the shed floor last evening and have decided it's destined for the rubbish bin. :???:

It not up to standard and I'm not happy with it.

There's nothing for it but to start again. The Mk.I floor was made from foamboard covered with printed paper. I undercut the edges of the foamboard to enable me to cover the edges of the sleepers but this proved too unstable. When the paper was glued on, it failed to stay stuck down in places (my fault entirely :oops: ) and where it did stick properly, it caused some of the thin edges to distort. :thud

The Mk.II version is currently in the planning stage, but I think it's going to be of a more substantial laminated card construction.

The wooden interior support beams can be re-used, so that will save some work. :thumbs

It's strange, but I have now attempted two projects using foamboard and failed at both. I have seen excellent examples of the use of this material on this forum, so I know it can be very useful,  but it seems it's just not for me.

Perry

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That's a great shame Perry but you're right - if it's not good enough at the start, it certainly won't get any better with age !!!

Hard but better to get it right now - I've got far too many models that "could have been better if I'd corrected the faults in the beginning " :oops::oops:

Looking forward to the Mk 2 version.

I used to prefer plastic but I'm fast coming round to making card my favourite medium for many things and I've got years to go before I dare put my efforts even in the same county as yours !!!!.

Perry
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I still much prefer plastikard. :???:

This shed was a bit of an experiment in using card for me, but I'm afraid it hasn't really converted me. It was possibly cheaper to build in card than it would have been in plastic, but I feel the result lacks a little 'finesse' to my eyes - more likely down to my lack of skill than the material. I like the 'feel' of the plastikard more too.

Each unto his own, I guess. I've seen fabulous examples of modelling in card and foamboard on this forum that have knocked my socks off! Card is just not my material of choice.

The shed floor is still going to be made from card, though! In fact, work is already underway. :brickwall

Perry

Last edited on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 11:26 am by Perry

Perry
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Some days things just go right!

I have just cut 6 pieces of 2mm card to form the base layer of the shed floor. Three of these have to have many cut-outs in them to fit around the internal wall buttresses. They all fitted first time! :thumbs

Then I marked out the 1mm card that will form the top surface all in one piece with slots to accomodate the four roads.

Working from each side of the card inwards, I drew lines parallel to the edge at 30mm - 20mm - 51mm -20mm - ? - 20mm - 51mm - 20mm - 30mm. Where the '?' is in the previous list of measurements, I need it to come out to 51mm. It was EXACT! :doublethumb

Now to cut it out and see if it all fits. :shock:

Onwards and upwards!

Perry

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All the marking out and cutting of the slots for the track has been completed.

The six base layer sections of 2mm card have been fixed to the underside of the one-piece 1mm card top using strategically-placed pieces of double-sided adhesive tape. I chose tape instead of glue as it is quicker, cleaner and will not cause any distortion.

This is the view from what will be the open end of the shed:



The base layer can just be seen beneath the top. Ignore the immediate foreground; that's just a piece of card I laid it on to photograph it. The tops of the rails are marginally above floor surface height. Spot on!




This is the floor ready for the cut-outs that fit around the buttresses. I can do these quickly and easily by turning the assembly over. The slots are already cut in the 2mm base layer so I can use them as guides for cutting the top.

After that, I will cut strips of card to fit between the rails, not forgetting to leave clearance for the wheel flanges. These too will be held in place with double-sided tape.

I plan to remove the track and airbrush the floor to get a suitable finish. I have tested acrylic paint on a sample of this card and it takes it beautifully. Using an airbrush will not only be quicker, but will be much 'dryer'; the card will get very little dampness on it from the paint and therefore shouldn't warp.

I'm really happy with the Mk.II floor. It's many times better than my first effort. :thumbs

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part 2:

The buttress slots have been cut and the shed fits over the floor very nicely. There is evidence that one of the main walls has warped a couple of millimetres out of true, but that can be rectified easily enough later. It's good that the floor shows exactly where the walls shoud fit.



I'm going to measure up and cut the between-the-rails pieces next, but probably not until tomorrow.

Perry

Last edited on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 03:50 pm by Perry

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It's looking extremely smart Perry . :thumbs

How's the cutting hand coping ?

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Perry they look really good,a beautiful fit, who`s a jammy dodger then ??

:mutley:lol::cool:

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Thanks, Petermac,

It won't look quite so smart when I've painted it - I hope!

The cutting hand has taken a bit of a beating today. That 2mm card is hard going even with a new blade in the knife. Still, I have finished all the cutting for now. I even got the between-the-rails pieces cut before I packed up for the day. :thumbs

SWMBO is out for a while tomorrow, so I'll be working the conservatory with my airbrush for an hour or two, all being well. The light in there is the best anywhere in the house for painting.

Once the loco shed floor is painted I can stick the centre strips in place over the sleepers, re-fit the supporting columns, which I will need to 'tweak' now that the floor has been changed, and the shed should be ready to go on the layout.

It's just a pity I'm nowhere near the tracklaying stage yet. :???:

Perry

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Way to go Perry, Lovely job!
Goodluck with the airbrush!
Derek

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owen69 wrote: Perry they look really good,a beautiful fit, who`s a jammy dodger then ??

:mutley:lol::cool:

I was amazed how well it came out, Owen.

I worked to 0.5 millimetre accuracy when I was measuring up. I first roughed the shapes out with a pencil and ruler, then did most of the critical marking out with the point of a knife. I couldn't believe it that when I needed that 51mm gap left in the middle, it would turn out to be exactly that, 51mm!

The reason I worked to 0.5mm accuracy wasn't to be flash or clever. :oops: It was forced upon me by the internal dimensions of the shed and the dimensions of the Peco track. I tried to simplify it as far as possible, but still came up with the three 51mm width pieces between the roads. I marked them out by taking a centre line, then measuring 25.5mm either side of it to give me the 51mm I needed. All the other lateral dimensions were 20mm or 30mm, so they weren't a problem.

The fit should be even better when it's all properly secured to the baseboard surface. It's 'waving about in the breeze' at the moment and the slight warp on one of the side walls needs to be addressed.

To be honest, I quite enjoy getting the calculator out and working out stuff like this. Masochistic? Perhaps - just a little! :lol:

Perry

Last edited on Sun Feb 6th, 2011 07:34 pm by Perry

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The floor got three shades of grey applied with the airbrush this morning; two overall coats of pale grey, followed by an intentionally uneven coat of neutral grey and rounded off with some black grey to emphasise the edges and between the rails.



Obviously I didn't paint the floor with the track in situ! :oops: The actual effect has more contrast than shows up in the photos taken with flash due to poor light. This has rather burned the images out. :sad:



It looks a bit out of alignment in places in this photo because I have just laid it in place for a few pictures. It's not fixed in place yet. The shed locates over the cut-outs shown in the previous photo.



Just for good measure, I've posed Britannia in the shed along with the water cranes and the Shed Supervisor's desk.



Everything will be straight and level when it's finally fixed - I promise! :thumbs

Perry


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Hello Perry,
 :hmmWhat a difference "a bit of paint makes".  :roll::lol: It really sets-off the shed and high-lights the water-cranes and desk. Really excellent modelling, mate, :doublethumb
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

Last edited on Mon Feb 7th, 2011 03:44 pm by

shunter1
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:hiPerry, That shed is really coming together. The roof support pillars look just right combined with the new floor and adding in water cranes with the shed foremans desk.

I like it all.

Derek

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Thanks for the kind comments. :thumbs

It's a shame that the painting on the new floor hasn't shown up better in the photo. The colouration is actually much stronger than it looks in the picture. Perhaps I'll try another one on a brighter day - without flash. It'll also give me a chance to align the floor properly too! :oops:

Where the tracks protrude beyond the apron, there will eventually be four inspection pits. They are already built and painted but I won't cut the holes in the baseboard for them until I'm ready to lay the track.

I need to make a clock to go on the wall above the Shed Supervisor's desk. I've got some suitable clock faces somewhere. I just wish I could find them. :???: No doubt they'll turn up  when I'm looking for something else. :roll:

Perry

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Can't you give the camera a longer exposure Perry, using a tripod instead of flash?

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Robert wrote: Can't you give the camera a longer exposure Perry, using a tripod instead of flash?
Now don't go getting all technical on me, Bob! :mutley:mutley:mutley

I know I've taken a few wildlife photos of questionable quality in my time, but the model railway ones are just banged off in a hurry with an old digital camera, not the Digital SLR.

In truth, it didn't really cross my mind, as once I'd taken them I moved the models out of the conservatory back into the 'railway room'. ;-) I was too lazy to set it all up again after I saw the results on the computer. That's why the flooring is out of alignment too - I didn't check before I moved everything. :oops:

I'll try to do better next time, Bob. I promise! :doublethumb

Perry

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:Red Card:Red Card No Koala stamp and certainly not an elephant stamp this time then exclam: :roll::roll::roll: :lol::roll::roll:

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No, I think I'm in the 'Naughty Corner' with a 'Must Try Harder' stamp. :oops::mutley

Come to think of it, I used to get a lot of them at School.........so nothing's really changed. :roll:


Perry

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I presume your school was "approved" Perry ................:mutley:mutley

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An amazing build Perry, very effective! Always a great thrill for me to see one of my kits built on this grand scale.

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Nice work with the air brush Perry, a bit more grime down the centre of the roads maybe? Or are the cleaners being driven hard in a newish shed?

Perry
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Scalescenes wrote: An amazing build Perry, very effective! Always a great thrill for me to see one of my kits built on this grand scale.
Thanks, John.

I'm glad you approve of my efforts. What I really liked about your kit was that it didn't have to be built to look exactly the same as everyone elses. There is so much scope for customisation that it was easy to build exactly what I wanted. With your kits, modification is positively encouraged by their design.

:cheers

Perry

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Marty wrote: Nice work with the air brush Perry, a bit more grime down the centre of the roads maybe? Or are the cleaners being driven hard in a newish shed?
As I mentioned in a post above, I had to use flash to take those photos due to really poor light. The contrast is greater and the colours are darker in reality.

However, I agree with what you say about more grime being needed. The plan is to weather the shed and the floor some more once the track is laid. I can then make sure everything will tie in and look right together. It would be easy to add loads of darker paint now, but not so easy to lighten it later if I happen to go too far with it. :???: What I don't want is a floor that looks too different from the apron, or an apron that is too different from the surrounding yard, if you see what I mean. :shock:

Perry

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Except that the apron would have been constantly washed by rain and bleached by sun Perry ..............:hmm

You often get a fairly hard line along concrete where it goes under cover.  Also, inside, you'd have oil and grease to clean up but outside there would be more ash and mud I'd have thought - I presume they'd pressure wash/steam clean in the open before entering the shed.

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Just so, Petermac. :thumbs

They're all reasons why the final weathering needs to be done with the track laid, the inspection pits installed and the groundwork done. To just paint everything in isolation probably wouldn't end up with the overall effect I want.

I appreciate your very helpful comments. They're all things I need to bear in mind. Thank you.

:cheers

Perry


                 

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