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Northlight Engine Shed - Scalescenes Building Kits. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Fri Nov 5th, 2010 09:32 am
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Perry
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Having made eight sets of exhaust hoods and vents, I stood them roughly in place on the roof, just to get some idea of how they were going to look:





I think I'm going to need twenty vents; five over each of the four roads just to make it 'look right'.

I'm not entirely happy with the appearance of them either, so I may decide to scratchbuild some in plastikard. I haven't made my mind up yet.


Perry



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 Posted: Fri Nov 5th, 2010 09:35 am
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Perry
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dooferdog wrote: Hi, Perry,

I can't get my book on the scanner to send you a pm without endangering the spine, but it looks as though the roof spans, left to right were between 44ft and 52ft and supporting pillars were between 17ft and 21ft apart, if I've read the drawings correctly. The spans look huge! It's funny, until the subject is raised like this, I was more interested in the machinery etc., never thought of the engineering behind the buildings, as all my scene is 'micro' by comparison.

Doug

Thanks for the info, Doug.

I agree, it's strange how things have a habit of suddenly leading us off somewhere completely new. I enjoy learning new things during a build, such as how and why thing were done the way they were. That's one of the things that keeps me interested.

Perry



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 Posted: Fri Nov 5th, 2010 12:47 pm
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shunter1
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Les wrote: Wow Owen, that is fascinating. I hope I dont hear any diesel lover tell me that steam sheds were filthy old places after seeing that lot. Also answers the question about internal walls - it seems there were 1 road, 2 road, 3 road and several roads sheds.

Les


:hiLes and all, Owens link to Thornaby is superb, One thing about our loco sheds at least LMS versions and probably all the other companies including BR, Was they constantly evolved, You could take an older Webb design of shed and rebuild it often happened on the prototype.

Loco sheds in the steam era had a huge problem with Roof coverings, erosion caused by acids from burning coal ate the roof supports away. The old companies had a rule that contractors had to use copper nails not iron, If iron had to be used a bitumen dip before use was advised to stop corrosion.Corragated metal sheets were tried very briefly in the early part of the 20th century, not a good experiment, this material was dropped very quickly.

In the 30,s the LMS went on a major refurbishment of engine sheds, northlight style roofs were introduced, concrete pillars replaced the old cast iron jobs, roofing material switched to concrete probably asbestos sheeting as well was used.Some sheds had major rebuilding probably to a standard layout design, other less important sheds were likely rebuilt around the old floor layout design, So we could see a variety of road lanes in sheds.

So I think we can be safe to model sheds with 2 lanes or a mixture, Glad Doug got some real data on roof support spacing of pillars. Very difficult to judge from just photo,s.

Hope my little post? :lol: is okay in your thread Perry.

regards all,

Derek

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 Posted: Fri Nov 5th, 2010 02:35 pm
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Perry
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Absolutely, Derek. All good, useful information. :thumbs

Perry



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 Posted: Fri Nov 5th, 2010 05:43 pm
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Perry
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For the sake of trying them out, I've decided to make up the remaining twelve external exhaust vents as supplied by Scalescenes. I tarted up the ones I had already made with a few daubs of acrylic paint and, now that there's no white edges showing, they don't look too bad. As the shed will be  situated at the rear of a 3-foot wide baseboard, I have a feeling they will look OK.

Perry



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 Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 12:28 pm
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Perry
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All twenty external vents have been made up and the exposed white edges painted with acrylics.

I have stood them in approximately in the locations where I plan to put them, just to see the overall effect:





I have almost finished cutting out and assembling the remainder of the internal vents. It's a bit of a laborious task! :shock:

Before the vents are fixed in place, I have to sort out the flashing. Then I will set the internal vents and supporting girders, etc, in place while I can still turn the shed upside down to work on it. I don't want to risk crushing the external vents, so they can go on last.

Perry.




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 Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 03:15 pm
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it certainly looks impressive, even if a bind to cut &glue , plod on mate plod on ...

:thumbs:roll::lol::lol::cool:

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 Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 03:19 pm
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Thats one heck of a shed Perry, some hard time went into that. Love it.

Phill

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 Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 03:48 pm
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Perry
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I getting there now.  :doublethumb

All the flashing has been printed, cut, folded and glued into place. With the exception of actually glueing the external vents in place, the outside of the building is finished. It will all be sprayed with matt varnish once the inside is finished.

I won't do any weathering on it until the layout is much further advanced in development. That way the shed can be 'tied in' to it's surroundings better.

I'm going to have a think about the inside now; the supporting columns, beams, etc. I also have to think about how and where I'm going to fit the LED's for the lighting.

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 06:35 am
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Marty
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The potential for some great loco/shed photos are becoming more and more evident as you progress along Perry.

Any thoughts on the differing media? Plasticard vs Card/paper. I suspect that the main body of the shed came together a lot quicker in card/paper than it might have in plasticard? 'tis what I have found so far anyway.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 09:37 am
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Perry
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Marty wrote: The potential for some great loco/shed photos are becoming more and more evident as you progress along Perry.

Any thoughts on the differing media? Plasticard vs Card/paper. I suspect that the main body of the shed came together a lot quicker in card/paper than it might have in plasticard? 'tis what I have found so far anyway.

It might surprise you, Marty, but I find card modelling much harder work than using plasticard. I thought at the outset that this project would be quicker, easier and cheaper in card, but I think it failed in all three aspects.

I'm fairly pleased with the result, but I can't help feeling it would have looked better in embossed plasticard.

One of the main stumbling blocks has been the length of time it takes to cut the various thicknesses of card, especially the 2mm stuff. I can score and snap off a piece of plasticard accurately in a few seconds, whereas I have to make several passes with the knife to cut the card right through - and even then the cut is not as 'clean' and accurate as I would like. Maybe that is just my lack of skill and experience.

I find solvent easier, cleaner and quicker to work with than PVA which just seems to get everywhere other than where I want it.

I hate to think what this model has cost me. :shock: When taking into account the printer ink, the various thicknesses of card I had to purchase, several new knife blades, a couple of glue sticks, the PVA, the list just goes on. I know there is still printer ink left, and I still have some of the card and PVA, etc., but the initial outlay was quite large. It was surprising how much card this model swallowed up.

Having said that, the cost of sufficient embossed and plain plasticard to complete a building of this size would also have been considerable.

I take my hat off to the card modellers amongst you. It's not as easy as it looks, or as easy as I thought. Maybe I should stick to what I know. (No pun intended.) However, don't let anything I've said here deter anyone from having a go at card modelling. It obviously suits others more than it suits me.

Will I build in card again? Maybe. Will I build in plasticard again? Definitely.

As I wrote this, the shed is on the bench beside me. I found myself looking at it and wondering - should I rebuild this in plasticard? :hmm

Perry





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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 10:19 am
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Perry
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I have test-fitted the first piece of 5mm foamboard that will form the floor.



The apparent curve in the sidewall is due to my photography, not the model. :???:

I will make a second piece to fit and project outside of the front of the shed to form an 'apron'.

The idea is to fix the floors to the baseboard so that the building itself just slips over them. I can then remove the building for track cleaning or to recover a failed loco. I intend to set the track into the floor using the method I showed previously:





I need to cut a slot the width of the rails initially, then turn the whole lot over and trim out the underside to accommodate the sleepers. Then I will lay the track, fix the floor over it, and slip the shed into place. That means I can leave the supporting pillars (yet to be made) attached to the floor. Where they sit beneath the roof won't be visible so no physical attachment will be needed. I can simply brace the pillars to each other by means of cross-beams. This also leaves me the option of adding lighting later as I can fix it to the cross-beams and not the roof. This negates the problem of needing to disconnect wiring each time I want to lift the shed. A strip of card will be set between the rails to bring the centre section up to the height of the main floor.

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 10:49 am
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I'm impressed with the thoroughness you have applied to this project, which has turned out [IMHO] very well.

I'm also sad that you feel it has not been a totally positive experience, but you are seeing it 'with an honest mother's eyes', i.e. you can see  faults as well as the good parts in your progeny.

I too would have been fazed by cutting out so many pillars, were it my build I would have used strip wood [I know...hindsight..] but you yet have the fun of weathering it. Plastic just does not weather so well or so easily. have a go with a new sharp blade round the back, out of sight, splash on some watercolours etc etc.

Below is a close-up of Scalescenes brick paper on 2mm boards as part of my tunnel mouth, I do not believe I could do this with plastic card, mechanically and chemically the surface is totally different.

Good luck with the finishing, use the back unseen side to have a try-out, far be it for me to offer you advice but I'm happy to do so if you feel like a pm session.

Doug




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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 11:12 am
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Perry
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I'm not sure I am "seeing it 'with an honest mother's eyes'". I rather feel that perhaps my perception has become biased by working almost exclusively with plastic. I know what can be done with it, and I know how to achieve what I want. That's not the case with card.

The weathering on your tunnel mouth is excellent. It has inspired me to have a go, but probably not until the shed is set onto the layout. Thanks for your kind offer of assistance. If I get any problems or need any help, I will indeed contact you.

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 12:32 pm
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shunter1
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Looking brilliant Perry, materials to model with take a bit of a learning curve, Finding the right glues and such, Doug is a wizard with card and his models really show the versatility of card as a medium.
Maybe another material for big builds is thin ply at least for the heavy stuff.
I have been lucky with a local bakery, The trays they use for carrying loaves and such have a nice thin ply base, Often they just chuck them out when they have to many, So my friendly baker gives them to me for Free! if I want any.
Maybe a visit to the bakers may get you more than a loaf.
regards,
Derek

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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 12:45 pm
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Perry
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You're very lucky there. I tried to find some very thin ply for a job a while back but couldn't source any within 25 miles of where I live. I did find a few very small pieces in a couple of model/toy shops, but the prices were silly. I wasn't prepared to start paying carriage for sheets of ply to be delivered so I gave it up as a lost cause. :sad:

.........................................................................................................................................................................

I needed to get the shed off the bench for a while so I had room to do some other stuff, like painting the edges of the exhaust vents. I put the shed on the bare baseboards, then I couldn't resist standing a few locos in it. :roll:



I'm wasting far too much time. I must get on with those vents........:roll::thumbs

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 01:51 pm
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Y'know, I'm not sure that shed is big enough... I mean, it will only take 8 locos....



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 02:00 pm
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Perry
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Stubby47 wrote: Y'know, I'm not sure that shed is big enough... I mean, it will only take 8 locos....
:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

I don't actually have many more than that! :thudIt was designed to take 8 large locos, but more so to look as though it would be big enough for the MPD it is situated in. A 2-road shed only half the length, for example, would have looked completely out of proportion.

It is a BIG 'cardboard box', though!

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 02:22 pm
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Perry wrote: Stubby47 wrote: Y'know, I'm not sure that shed is big enough... I mean, it will only take 8 locos....
:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

I don't actually have many more than that! :thudIt was designed to take 8 large locos, but more so to look as though it would be big enough for the MPD it is situated in. A 2-road shed only half the length, for example, would have looked completely out of proportion.

It is a BIG 'cardboard box', though!

Perry


Looks great with some loco,s posed, I see you have a couple of ER visitors ;-), Try your local cake shop,s /bakeries, supermarkets they often have the kind of wood trays I mentioned. Maybe even plastic stuff that can be used, :lol: I shall be asking you to go skip hunting next.

Those MPD,s could be huge and cover vast area,s :cry: makes it very tough to cover everything, You could have a 40ft shed and still not be able to scale it exactly to the protoype, Compromise is the name of the modders game as long as you have the feel of the real thing, It makes most of us happy.

Regards,

Derek

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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 03:02 pm
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 That's looking really good, Perry and having the loco's in front makes it stand out even more:doublethumb



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