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RR&Co - Max's shunting puzzle. - RR & Co - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 10:17 am
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Sol
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TC can see another train ahead and won't let the loco proceed . . .


Now that would make double heading interesting then - in wanting to couple up to another loco as part of the sequence.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 10:36 am
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MaxSouthOz
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That's OK, Sol.  The double header becomes one loco, I think.  Don't start.  :Red Card



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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 11:17 am
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Easy peasy, Max in the Schedules rules tab there some options to check their boxes, there is a section at the bottom of the list  called "train sets" check the option that says "enter reserved destination block for joining" that should fix it. You can hit the button that says "Apply selected rules to all scedules" which is a good idea and saves time if you are doing a lot joining and shunting. A warning pops up and says it can't be undone? yes it can!

There are also rules for occupied blocks and routes you can explore.






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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 01:17 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I knew it would be, Pete.  :shock:  I'm working my way through with two plain wagons for the time being.  Tell me, when I reserve the B&S markers to the Schedules, do I click Add?  The result looks different from your shot.  If I just hit OK all trains stop on them.



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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:09 pm
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wogga
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Yes Max click on the sched then hit add just the same as if you were adding functions, all the properties boxes act the same way.




By the way you could probably add a hoot or a toot to the stop marker in the operations tab in the marker properties box if you wanted. I haven't tried it yet, what about an uncoupling sound Max?





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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 09:44 pm
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Thanks, Pete.  I can't get mine to look like that at the moment.  I'll have another go tonight.  The coupler clash sounds like an idea.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 09:59 am
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MaxSouthOz
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OK, lads. Two steps forward, one step back.  I'm up to the first shuffle.  TC is amazing how it can stop the couplers in virtually the same spot over the magnets every time.  However, I've struck another hurdle  Here is one of the incarnations of my shuffle:-




It looks pretty much like Pete's - but it doesn't work like Pete's.   The loco stops and goes into reverse (the lights change from front to back), the engine revs up and the loco moves back.  That's it.  The rear light stays on.  It won't change back into forward mode.

I suspected that the decoder delay may be affecting it, so I changed the LAST delay to 8 seconds.  The loco went backwards for 8 seconds and stopped.  It seems like it's ignoring the two commands after the reverse command and going straight to the last two.

I will have done something dumb again, but what is it?



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 10:11 am
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MaxSouthOz
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I've dealt with it by adding the next Schedule under the list and it moves off again, but I'm sure that's not the right way.   :oops:



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 09:36 pm
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Max, try running the shuffle without any sound on at all, that should discount any problems that may me caused by sound file delays.

Secondly the delays and speeds in the shuffle are dependant on the loco and how good the speed profiling matches. The speed and the delays may need tweaking slightly for your locos.

If the loco is stopping on the spot consistantly thats great:doublethumb a major acheivement with your B&S markers!

Now secondandly is the nudge backwards ok? if it is leave it, if it isn't slightly increase the delay and/or speed to get the nudge you want.

Thirdly if the next part, the move forward following uncoupling is your problem (whch i think it is) then focus on those two steps delay and speed to get the desired movement.

However if the move forward is in reality a move to next scedule then you do right and put the next schedule in why not? Work in bitesize pieces and little steps and build them up.

Remember on my shuffle i had to move forward and stop because i was working in front of buffers so i had to stop! if you have got clear track in front of you take the loco where you need it and if that is straight into the next schedule then go for it! you have simplified the list in reality.

NO Right WAy or wrong way as long as you get the desired effect!

I used to say to my engineers when i used train them with machine plc controls you ain't going to break it, if you cock up simply reboot and start again!



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Pete.

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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 10:25 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Pete.  I'm still fiddling with it.  The move backwards is great.  It's just the forward which doesn't work.  The rear light stays on, the engine returns to idle sound and nothing more happens.  What I found mystifying is that when I increased the delay for the move forward, the loco moved back for even an longer time.

Sure, adding the next Schedule to the list fixed the problem, but I'd like to understand it as I have a different shuffle coming up and so I need to get on top of it.  Also on my last test run, when the train got to the magnet the shuffle shut down the Lenz system, so it may still not be right.

More testing required.    :pedalCheers  Max



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 11:53 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I think I've found the problem with the loco shutting down the Lenz system.  The front wheels go out of the block and on to the double slip.  I think I'll try running around before I push the cars down to the other end.  That should keep the loco off the slip.

It means re-writing part of the programme, but it's fun to do anyway.  :lol:



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 Posted: Fri Sep 24th, 2010 11:47 pm
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John Dew
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wogga wrote: Easy peasy, Max in the Schedules rules tab there some options to check their boxes, there is a section at the bottom of the list  called "train sets" check the option that says "enter reserved destination block for joining" that should fix it. You can hit the button that says "Apply selected rules to all scedules" which is a good idea and saves time if you are doing a lot joining and shunting. A warning pops up and says it can't be undone? yes it can!

There are also rules for occupied blocks and routes you can explore.





 

:hmm 

I think you have to check the "enter occupied blocks" as well................there is an obvious danger to applying this to all schedule rules........you lose the built in safety check for non shunting schedules.

There are number of other thing to take into account like setting up the Caboose as a car and assigning that car to the block.

Max I think you are right to focus on perfecting simple coupling moves before delving into joining and separating train sets. I found this the most frustrating experience until I finally got given a few hints on the RR& Co Forum  

When you are ready to start on train sets you may want to read the section in the tutorial (its right at the end) and then give us a headsup with your track plan

Its pouring with rain and I am afraid we are done with the boat for this year.:cry:

Kind Regards

 



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 12:00 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Sorry to hear about the rain, John.  You're much better off to be modelling anyway.  :twisted:

I was about to pose another question, but I haven't done the screen shot yet.  I had to delete all my previous Schedules and start again as I found logistical problems I had to work around.  I'm up to the first shuffle again.

I'm making up my shuffles as per Pete's shot, but I can't get the loco to obey anything after the reverse movement.  It stops on the stop marker and then reverses; but after that it just sits there with its reverse light on and the engine sound running.

It looks like it needs another trigger to make it go forward again.  I'll keep playing with it.  I'll take a shot of the shuffle if it will help you with your diagnosis.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 12:22 am
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John Dew
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Max I am answering your most recent post......one day I will work out how to do multi quotes:oops::oops:

Assuming you are using the same sequence as below one problem is that you dont have a zero speed command after the 1st (1 second) reverse move at 10 kmph..................that means the loco moves back for 1 sec at 10 kmph and then immediately moves back for a further 2 seconds at 10 kmp and then stops. If the plan is to jerk back for 1 sec and then move forward for 2 sec I would do this

DELAY 2 SEC

REV

SPEED 10 kmph     (I normally go faster for a shorted time for the jerk)

DELAY 1 sec

SPEED

DELAY 1 sec

REVERSE

SPEED 10 kmph

DELAY 2 sec

SPEED

DELAY 2 sec

I tend to have lots of delays to give TC time to process

The final delay should give TC time to completely terminate the schedule..............check this happens by both the schedule icon changing and the detailed messages.......right at the bottom

A dumb question......do the lights and sound functions start automatically when the loco moves or do you have to activate them at the start of the schedule? Perhaps you could post the starting operations for this schedule as well?

I dont have lights and sound

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MaxSouthOz wrote:
OK, lads. Two steps forward, one step back.  I'm up to the first shuffle.  TC is amazing how it can stop the couplers in virtually the same spot over the magnets every time.  However, I've struck another hurdle  Here is one of the incarnations of my shuffle:-




It looks pretty much like Pete's - but it doesn't work like Pete's.   The loco stops and goes into reverse (the lights change from front to back), the engine revs up and the loco moves back.  That's it.  The rear light stays on.  It won't change back into forward mode.

I suspected that the decoder delay may be affecting it, so I changed the LAST delay to 8 seconds.  The loco went backwards for 8 seconds and stopped.  It seems like it's ignoring the two commands after the reverse command and going straight to the last two.

I will have done something dumb again, but what is it?



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 12:33 am
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Ah, thanks, John.  I'll try putting stops in between the moves.

I leave my lights on all of the time so I can easily see if the Lenz shuts down.  They are on Rule 17, so they are dim when stationary and go bright when they move off.  The engine start and shut down are part of the Schedule Operations Start/Finish boxes.

I've put some coupler triggers in some of the boxes as well as per Pete's suggestion.  Interestingly, even though the coupler is set up as a push button in the loco profile, you still have to have both Coupler On and Off triggers in the Finish box, otherwise it stays on in the train window and won't work the second time.

Anyway, I'll go back and pop some stops in.  That should fix the problem.  Thank you.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 12:40 am
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John Dew
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MaxSouthOz wrote:
 The engine start and shut down are part of the Schedule Operations Start/Finish boxes.




The engine shut down sequence isnt listed in these operations...........shouldnt it be after the shuffle?  That should solve that one

 

I've put some coupler triggers in some of the boxes as well as per Pete's suggestion.  Interestingly, even though the coupler is set up as a push button in the loco profile, you still have to have both Coupler On and Off triggers in the Finish box, otherwise it stays on in the train window and won't work the second time.


I missed this thread..............can you direct me to it?



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 12:57 am
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MaxSouthOz
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John Dew wrote: MaxSouthOz wrote:
 The engine start and shut down are part of the Schedule Operations Start/Finish boxes.




The engine shut down sequence isnt listed in these operations...........shouldnt it be after the shuffle?  That should solve that one  There's no problem with the engine shut down, John.  Besides, I want the engine to keep running as there are more Schedules to go.

 

I've put some coupler triggers in some of the boxes as well as per Pete's suggestion.  Interestingly, even though the coupler is set up as a push button in the loco profile, you still have to have both Coupler On and Off triggers in the Finish box, otherwise it stays on in the train window and won't work the second time.


I missed this thread..............can you direct me to it?   Post number 25.

 

OK.  I don't think I'm understanding.  Here's my shuffle:-




Because the loco comes into the uncoupler at an angle, it's necessary to push past and then back up, then push up again to couple on.  Then pull back again to uncouple the front wagon.

The next Schedule will push the front wagon into the siding.  The following Schedule will pull the second wagon back to the uncoupler and then it will be pushed into the other siding.

The only thing I can think of at the moment, is that the stop icons should be the other ones?



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 01:07 am
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John Dew
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Sorry about the engine shut down comments..... I misunderstood you

Is the sequence on your most recent post not working? If so how far does it go?

[Stop] can be used instead of [Speed 0] but it will not make any difference.......I tried doing it when I had a similar problem

 

 

 



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 01:13 am
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MaxSouthOz
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No wurries.  :lol:

I've changed the Speed 0s to Stops and at least it's changing directions now.  I'll increase the delays a bit to see if I can get a bit more movement.   I"ll be back.  exclam:



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 03:14 am
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OK  Here is the shuffle.  It works a treat.




Now, because of the geometry of the tracks, I have to push the wagons into the slip to get them straight enough to couple.  That means I have to extend the Schedule past the slip to get the motors to align them correctly.




The brake and stop markers in Block 8 have been assigned to the Schedule, but since I have included a shuffle after the B&S markers, the train sails past them into Block 10, where it does the shuffle.  Clearly TC is now ignoring the markers in Block 8 since I have extended the Schedule by 2 more blocks.

I have to work out a way for TC to recognise the B&S markers in Block 8, do the shuffle and then continue to Block 10 to end the Schedule.  It's not ideal, but if I don't sort the slips out, the wagons will derail as the motors are in their last used position from the earlier Schedules.



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