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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 03:03 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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It looks like my drawings are too simplified.  I'll try again.  I'm not dealing with the moving rail contact issue.  I'm trying to understand the "polarity" issues.  I've read all the articles and clicked all the links on this stuff.  They are all very well and good, but if I can't understand them, all there is are some excellent graphics.

I'm determined to come up with some useful diagrams.  I ask the question again.  Do the diagrams show the principles of switching the frogs correctly?  They are schematic only, so I can understand what's going on.  Once I understand how it works, I'll draw it up so we "simple folk" can wire our turnouts.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:06 pm
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Geoff R
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Would a picture like this help you at all, Max?


I know it is for a junction and not a double slip, but I could create a similar one for a double slip if it is the sort of thing that would be helpful.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:12 pm
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Geoff R
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MaxSouthOz wrote: . . . and are these the double slips?







It looks as though the frogs are switched by the opposite pair of points.

Does anyone disagree with any of the propositions?

Yes, I agree! Your drawings are electrically correct and yes, the frogs are switched by the opposite pair of points.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:19 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I'm sure it will be when I understand the principles, Geoff.  What I'm trying to get an answer to is, have I drawn the "polarity" shifting to the frog correctly?  I know it's not strictly polarity with DCC, but I don't know how else to describe it.

I want to deal with powering the moving rails separately, once I'm confident that I have the frog correct.

From what I can see, the moving rails never change polarity.  They are either up agains the stock rails or away from them.  It's a mechanical connection issue to make sure they have a reliable connection.

It's like the Emporer's new clothes.  I'm the idiot who's putting up my hand saying, "I really can't follow the drawings by the 'experts."  If I dissect the task into bite size bits, I might have a chance.

Thank you for the photo.  It will come in handy as I progress.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:20 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Geoff.  I was responding when you posted.  Now I can try to get my head around the moving rails.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:22 pm
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Geoff R
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MaxSouthOz wrote: I'm sure it will be when I understand the principles, Geoff.  What I'm trying to get an answer to is, have I drawn the "polarity" shifting to the frog correctly? YES  I know it's not strictly polarity with DCC, but I don't know how else to describe it.

I want to deal with powering the moving rails separately, once I'm confident that I have the frog correct.

From what I can see, the moving rails never change polarity. CORRECT  They are either up agains the stock rails or away from them.  It's a mechanical connection issue to make sure they have a reliable connection.

It's like the Emporer's new clothes.  I'm the idiot who's putting up my hand saying, "I really can't follow the drawings by the 'experts."  If I dissect the task into bite size bits, I might have a chance.

Thank you for the photo.  It will come in handy as I progress.  :thumbs

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:28 pm
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Geoff R
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MaxSouthOz wrote: From what I can see, the moving rails never change polarity.  They are either up agains the stock rails or away from them.  It's a mechanical connection issue to make sure they have a reliable connection.



Again, correct with the mechanical issue for reliable connection, BUT .....

When you purchase a new code 75 point (not a double slip, just an ordinary turnout), the moving rails are connected to each other via links from each of them to the frog. Effectively they carry out frog switching for you, by making an electrical connection to one stock rail or the other.

So, if you wish to connect a moving rail to a stock rail, you have to remove the link to the frog first.

These pictures I posted on my layout thread show me doing just that:-






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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:32 pm
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Geoff R
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One other thing which may not be obvious when it comes to the moving rails. On an electrofrog peco code 75 double slip, the moving rails are ALREADY connected to the stock rails at manufacture. You don't have to cut anything or solder anything. Just connect up the frogs as you have now worked out for yourself.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:34 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks Geoff.  I read your posting on that.  Very good.  I was just a bit unsure about the frogs.  I have ordered all the trackwork bits which should be here next week.  Once I have the Code 75 turnouts in my hands, I will be confident to proceed now.  Thank you again. :thumbs



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:39 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Geoff.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:55 pm
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Sol
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YMR has this topic which also described point & frog wiring
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=4179&forum_id=6
The link is also listed in the YMR Index under Wiring Live Frogs.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 05:03 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I didn't think of W.  I looked under F for frogs, L for live, T for turnouts and P for points.



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 Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2010 12:11 am
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phill
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MaxSouthOz wrote: I didn't think of W.  I looked under F for frogs, L for live, T for turnouts and P for points.

Could give you the reason but its Lent and i am being nice :cool wink.

Phill

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 Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2010 12:13 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Phill.



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 Posted: Tue Mar 16th, 2010 05:55 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Well, all of the turnouts are in, wired, ballasted and pastelled (if that's a word).




This is a GP-7 number 402 and GP-9 number 531, pretending to be trams at the northern terminus.




This is GP-9 number 534 at the southern terminus and GP-7 number 415 hiding in the tram barn.  Ballasting will continue on the rest of the track and then the board will be turned over to fit the Tortoise motors and wire up all the bits.

Lenz parts, L1 USB and LS 150 are winging their way from the US as we speak.  I'm still having trouble getting the 2 x LR 101s and the 8 x LB 101s all together from the one supplier.  I distrust back orders.

I might give DCC Supplies another go - if they're still speaking to me.



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 Posted: Tue Mar 16th, 2010 05:50 pm
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Petermac
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It's looking good Max. :thumbs  Looking forward to seeing the trams flashing by.

Knowing little about US outline locos, is there any significant difference between a GP 7 and a GP 9 ?



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 Posted: Tue Mar 16th, 2010 06:06 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Peter.  As you can see with them side by side, they are almost identical.  The side panels and running gear are different.  There were also a lot of retro-fit options available as well, just to further confuse the issue.

Then there were quite large body mods like on John Flann's GP-9s, which were undertaken by individual roads.  The GP-7s and GP-9s were the VW beetles of the railroad industry.  There are still some old ones around as well.



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 Posted: Thu Apr 8th, 2010 08:10 am
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MaxSouthOz
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OK.  The remaining Lenz bits arrived from Chris yesterday, so turn the board over and begin.




Eastern end, showing the patented bus tensioners, Tortoise motors, LR 101 and LB 101s, buses and droppers.




The middle bit.  The top bus is the J K track bus and the bottom one is going to be a 12 Volt DC bus for LEDs, et al.




The western end.  Another LR 101 and two more LB 101s.  The anchor end of the buses and more droppers.



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 Posted: Thu Apr 8th, 2010 09:44 am
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Sol
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I like the Tortoise mounting methods.

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 Posted: Thu Apr 8th, 2010 12:40 pm
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Petermac
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"Patented bus tensioners"  :hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm

Have I missed something here ?  I'll re-read the thread to see what they are but they certainly seem to work. :thumbs:thumbs
Those bus wires look extremely tidy. :pathead



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