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New Tramway - Trams. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:03 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I'm not too worried about the cable, Rick.  You can see the wire I used in post 52.  It's 0.70 mm galvanised tie wire and it doesn't look too bad.  I was thinking more about the amount of work in the poles, guys and aerials to negotiate the bends and turnouts.

I figure I'll go and look at our local tramway and copy their ideas, but it will be a bit of a job.  Once the web of wires is up, then I have to sink the rare earth magnets into the roadbed to trigger the pan flash as the tram passes the occasional pole.



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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:10 pm
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Sol
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Max, as a young person when we had trams running around Adelaide, I don't remember flashing at each pole, only normally at the crossovers in the city and that was more with trolley pole than pantographs.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:18 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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From what I can gather, Sol, the flash only happens if the tram is under load (e.g., accelerating).  I understand that if it is coasting the flash doesn't happen.  I'm not having magnets on every pole, just some to suggest the effect.



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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:20 pm
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Sol
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MaxSouthOz wrote: ..............

Sol is going to help me with the live frog switching (he doesn't know yet, so keep it between us). ;-)

If you pick up from the pantograpgh for one connection, then both track rails can be the return & you won't have to worry about live frog switching - known as  LFS  :exclam ( though for a bloke who plays with LEDs in his sleep, LFS will be a piece of cake).

I think our Forum Index has articles on LFS but if not, then this site certainly describes it -
http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm#Live%20frog%20%28Electrofrog%29%20points

In your case, just substitute Tortoise for solenoids - all you need is a changeover switch.

And if you still are/get confused, of course SSAS will be available ( Sol's Specialised Advice Service)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:20 pm
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Gwiwer
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A trolley pole should not cause a flash on plain wire. The flash results from contact between the pole and the electricity supply being briefly interrupted such that the electricity tries to jump the gap in an arc.

It is fairly normal to see small arcs as trams pass through intersections where there are crossing pans or frogs in the overhead. As well if a driver fails to shut off power while passing a section insulator then an arc will be drawn.

In wet weather you might see small flashes from other areas of overhead due to a film of water accumulating on the trolley wire.

But under normal operating conditions I would be wary of having a flash at each span wire. There is no reason for most of those flashes to occur.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:29 pm
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Sol
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MaxSouthOz wrote: ..............  I'm not having magnets on every pole, just some to suggest the effect. 

Ahhh, so Post #61 was a slight furphy
trigger the pan flash as the tram passes each pole.

We have got him at last :mutley

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:32 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Settle down, Sol.  The overhead is just going to be a dummy, like me.  :oops:

Rick, our trams tended to flash at the suspension points along the wire, possibly because the pole wheel bounced downwards and broke contact for a second.  Sol's right.  Pantos rarely flash on the new trams, so it's all a bit academic, really.

I'm just going to put a few magnets around the layout so there will be the occasional flash to keep the crowds of visitors entertained.  :chicken

The layout is primarily for me to play with Rr&Co.



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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:35 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Sol wrote: MaxSouthOz wrote: ..............  I'm not having magnets on every pole, just some to suggest the effect. 

Ahhh, so Post #61 was a slight furphy
trigger the pan flash as the tram passes each pole.

We have got him at last :mutley

. . . fixed.  Bl***dy rivet counters :exclam



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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:38 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Sol wrote: MaxSouthOz wrote:

I think our Forum Index has articles on LFS but if not, then this site certainly describes it -
http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm#Live%20frog%20%28Electrofrog%29%20points

In your case, just substitute Tortoise for solenoids - all you need is a changeover switch.

And if you still are/get confused, of course SSAS will be available ( Sol's Specialised Advice Service)

. . . once again, you misunderstand me.  When I said, "help", I meant, "come and do it for me."  We both know people like that, don't we?



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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 03:44 pm
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Sol
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I will admit, the flash does look neat though, especially if irregular.

because the pole wheel bounced downwards and broke contact for a second.  - I had forgotten about that
 but I do  remember now it happening a couple of times, tram came to a halt coz when it, the trolley pole,
bounced back up,  it missed the wire & the Connie had to get out & re-position it.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 05:46 pm
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owen69
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that happened with our trolley buses too Sol, they were like trams only had tyred wheels ,no track.

:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 06:35 pm
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Gwiwer
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Oddly enough I don't recall flashes from trolleybus overhead though there must have been some at times.

I well remember trips on London, Portsmouth and Bournemouth trolleybuses and saw them in action in other places as well.

Something like YouTube footage of moving ones shouldn't be hard to find for reference.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 07:46 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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As they phased out the suburban trams, they were replaced here with trolley buses, which had twin poles.  I don't remember them flashing.  Interestingly, the plan is now to replace all the buses on Adelaide suburban routes with, guess what - trams!

I'm going to put all this flashing behind me now . . .



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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 07:50 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Sol wrote:

In your case, just substitute Tortoise for solenoids - all you need is a changeover switch.



I got a job lot of Tortoise motors from a bloke whose hobby was building and tearing down layouts.  There's no way I can afford solenoids compared to the price I got the Tortoises for.  :mutley



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 01:08 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Sol wrote:
http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm#Live%20frog%20%28Electrofrog%29%20points


I know I'm thick, Sol, but that's about as clear as mud.  I can work it out, but I thought I'd save some time by copying someone who's done it.  I'll look in the forum index. 



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 01:13 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Nope.  Nothing in the index about Live Frog Wiring.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 02:15 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Is this what he means?









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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 03:41 am
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MaxSouthOz
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. . . and are these the double slips?







It looks as though the frogs are switched by the opposite pair of points.

Does anyone disagree with any of the propositions?



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 08:40 am
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Sol
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Max, I have responded to you via e-mail but the way you have drawn it is not ideal.

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=1645&forum_id=6

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 08:46 am
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Sol
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Also have a look at this Max
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

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