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John Dew
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After receiving such a warm welcome I thought I had better start my layout thread on the forum. Although, after looking at some of the layouts here, I have some misgivings because I know I am quite incapable of achieving the skill levels I have seen.

I should make it clear from the outset I describe myself as a coarse gauge modeller....I use Peco Code 100 after all :lol:......I tend to use a broad brush approach and strive to suggest an overall atmosphere in terms of time and place although from time to time I do get side tracked into detail;-).

I dont aim for perfection rather I want the layout to look plausible as a whole. I really appreciate feedback where I have got something fudamentally wrong.

Operationally the layout is my first attempt at DCC (Lenz), to which I have added RR&Co computor control. I am very enthusiastic about this system and either here, or in a separate topic, I will write about some of my experiences.

One problem I am not sure how to deal with.....I have had a topic on this layout running in RMWeb for about 18 months describing the progress of the layout to date. While initially I appeared to be talking to myself, I now get a reasonable amount of comment. So I intend to to keep the thread there as well. This means that this thread will be out of sync for a while, until I catch up...........and I guess I run the risk of boring those of you who have read it on the other forum. Anyway I will crash on as quickly as I can.

Just prior to retirement, we moved into a smaller house but.... big plus..... a larger Railway Room;-)  The space for the layout measures 18' x 10'. It is essentially a rectangle with 2 long runs each 18' x 2' 8" and short 8' connecting sections at each end




This was taken in about September 2008. The bits of track on the left hand side and the models on the right hand side were recovered from my previous layout. The following shot shows the entrance way which will be eventually bridged by a duck under

 




The plan was to have storage yards on the right hand side that would then sweep round to connect on either side with the long left hand section where there will be a medium sized  terminus and 8 road engine shed.  

The storage yards are about 24" wide and are fronted at a lower level by an 11" wide branch line.


 

 


 I intended to use RR&Co to do a lot of automatic coupling so you can see I have already fitted the Kaydee Magnets.....probably a good example of my coarse approach.....they are very obtrusive and un prototypical.....but I already had them and I had to buy (and wire) all the other DCC gizmos............Point Decoders and Occupancy Detectors which are (a) essential for what I wanted to achieve and (b) expensive:cry:  



The intent was to conceal the storage yard by a retaining wall and terraced houses




 I think I will wrap up the storage sidings now even though I actually completed the branch trackwork first. Its probably easier to follow......so I started the sidings in January 09 and finished them sometime in the summer............these shots arent great but you can get the general idea

 


 

There are 10 roads.......5 up (left) and 5 down (right) but conected so that down trains can enter the up sidings.

 I have now worked out a routine in RR&Co where a down train can enter the up siding in the right foreground, uncouple, pull clear of the carriages and then a loco in the spur moves out, couples with the carriages and heads back to the terminus on the up line.....the first loco then backs into the spur ready for the next circuit...........all untouched by human hand (well mostly).....quite amazing

The sidings can accommodate trains of up to 8' in length, although some are divided into smaller blocks of 3' or so. All in all I can accommodate 13 trains of varying lenghts plus 14 relief locos.

There is a two road exit at the near end  (for convenience I will call this the canal end because eventually there will be one!)

This shows the exit and 3 of the loco spurs.....the space at the side is for a colliery......2011?


 

The shot is fortunately sufficiently out of focus to conceal my less than stellar trackwork! 



This gives a good idea of the relationship between the branch and the storage area .





The problem with a rectangle is that you get corners on the inside and outside of the curve that you have to landscape.   So at the other end of the layout (Brewery end), in the background, you can see the first corner starting to fill with some terraced houses.....the first of many.....believe me

 This is a closer shot of the same area

 


 

The loco in the spur is part of the run around routine I described earlier.

So this is another out of focus shot of the 4 road exit at the Brewery end.....there is very little space because of the planned trackwork at the lower level............so I have to use a flat backscene.

 




The road is climbing slightly because I decided to make the left hand (terminus boards) 1" higher than the storage yards........enabling me to have a long 2 road storage yard for the branch under the terminus. Its a fairly gentle incline about 1:100 whereas the climb from the branch to the main line.......you can see the start of this in the foreground.....is rather more extreme  1: 40. I am a bit worried about this because although I operate with a minimum radius of 36" the combination of curve and incline may prove a problem for the long (7') coal trains I want to run.......but I wanted to bank anyway!:lol: 

A closer shot of the exit




This shot is so clear you can see I didnt model the interior...:twisted:........another item for the to do list

 

The rear corner is landscaped with Metcalfe Terraced Houses and a Mill and some scatch built items that I salvaged from the last layout.

Out of focus again.....stick with me I get better....honest. Since the photo was taken I have moved the flat school bit from the middle.....it doesnt look right......I may eventually drop some more Metcalfe units in......you will see more shots later assuming I havent totally bored you.



 

naturally they were facing the wrong way so all the detailing I did 8 years ago is lost so I had to detail the backs with Wills drainpipes etc:twisted:




You can really see how incongruous the school was here. In the foreground the Down Relief and Down Main Tracks.....I only ballast as far as this

Here is another shot showing the empty inner corner.........




........ the filling of which I will describe in my next post.  Yes I know I have to move the picture:oops:

OK thats it for now 18 months modelling in one long post......hope I havent bored anyone too much.....I just find it easier to write in a narrative format.....we are now at October of this year.............a post on the terraced houses.......another one or two on the branch.....maybe one on the electrickery and we are in real time:lol:

Kind Regards from a very cold Vancouver (they cancelled my Grandaughter's soccer game)


Last edited on Mon Dec 7th, 2009 01:07 pm by

phill
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This a stuning layout and another GWR one to boot :thud, never mind we all have our cross's to bear :mutley.

I like the way you filled the corners and your backscenes. One thing i will say is we never get bored with pics on here so post away.

Phill

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Nice one, John.  I'm looking forward to seeing it porgress. :thumbs

georgejacksongenius
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Cracking layout John...coming on a treat.Post as many pictures as you like,we're hungry for as many as we can get....and videos of the action too!!!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

owen69
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that is a nice layout John, in the kind of space i would love to have
looking forward to some vids of the system working, if and when you find time.

:doublethumb:thumbs:lol::cool:

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Very nice layout John

And a lot of work carried out in just over a year, I don't use Rmweb so it I am looking forward to reading your updates regarding the past and also the future developments on the layout.

How have you covered the corners of all your Metcalf kits, have you used extra paper or used a coloured pen, as they look a lot better than most I have seen.

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A very nice layout John i can see you like operating trains you certainly have an eye for creating depth of field with how you done your buildings leading to backscenes.

It must be a bit of a stretch to reach the back of the thicker sections of baseboard do you stand on something when you need to do that?

Thats good  progress in 18 months especially on a layout that size another 18 months and you should be much further on.

Ilook forward to lots of updates

cheers Brian

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That looks good John and I love those Metcalfe terraces - really good modelling of you town scene. :thumbs

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 Coming along nicely, John. I would love to have that much room for a layout :thumbs

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Excellent stuff John, I live those terraces.

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Very nice John looking forward to more updates :thumbs

FS
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All in all I can accommodate 13 trains of varying lenghts plus 14 relief locos.

Mr. Kohlers investment into new tooling for the Castle class seems money well spent. Or did the GWR not use the Castle class in North Wales?

This will be a great layout to watch trains. I am looking forward for lots of pictures to come. And long video sessions of trains running!

Thomas

John Dew
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Thanks for all the kind remarks guys......I normally try and reply immediately but some non railway issues came up.

A couple of you mentioned videos......I will need a tutorial on how to upload it......my camera doesnt have video capabilty but I suspect my daughters' do.....and it would make the routines clearer

I havent got the hang of multi quotes yet.....probably need a tutorial there as well

Alan: I use a 000 brush and watercolours to paint the cut lines and edges it takes a little time but I think it is worth it

Brian: I have long arms.......but the corner sections is out of reach without steps but its essentially static.....I sometimes use the steps to access the back roads in the storage yard

FS wrote:
All in all I can accommodate 13 trains of varying lenghts plus 14 relief locos.

Mr. Kohlers investment into new tooling for the Castle class seems money well spent. Or did the GWR not use the Castle class in North Wales?

This will be a great layout to watch trains. I am looking forward for lots of pictures to come. And long video sessions of trains running!

Thomas

Well its North Wales....Wrexham.... Chester.....Birkenhead.......so I was hoping to use Counties and Halls on the Main as well as Manors and a Grange which, with DCC is undoubtedly the best loco I have. The new Castle isnt released yet is it? I have an older Castle but the chip is malfunctioning.....its on the cripple line:cry: 


You guys were very kind about the terraces so tonight I will try and complete my description of the back scene with shots of the longest Metcalfe Terrace in.......maybe not the world but probably Canada......:lol:

Kind Regards from Vancouver.....still sunny and cold

 

 

John Dew
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In this post I want to cover the terraced houses and retaining wall that separate and conceal the storage yards from the branch.



Metcalfe 1/2 relief terraces. I mount these in modules so they can easily be removed to access the storage yards behind......you can see the break by the bike.

I paint the cut/score lines with watercolour.....you can see where I overdid it above the bike. I also paint the lintels..... some are a very unrealistic pristine white. I do a bit of weathering but I should do more. Given hindsight these should be stone to match the walls and station buildings but I went down the red brick road many years ago so I'm stuck




In this close up you can see the Wills drain pipe detailing.......broad brush but it conceals the joins. The roof joins are concealed with Tile paper. When the wall is in place it hides the join between the pavement and road

Here is a long shot above the station

 



 

The walls are Langley units......some are 15 years old and this is their 3rd layout. The "Ivy" conceals honourable service scars.

The older units are naturally weathered and toned down.....the newer ones less so .....its a bit of a challenge to avoid it looking too obvious

 




Moving to the left towards the Brewery End there is a module of 1/2 relief shops

 




Although I have been careful to avoid TV shops, Pizza Takeaways and other time period giveaways a guy in another forum pointed out, quite rightly, that the Fascia lettering is still a big giveaway......you did not see those fonts (the Newsagent is a glaring example) in 1947......at some stage I will have to do some remedial work:cry: 






Since this photo I have added another terraced module and I think I still need one more

Here is a shot from the other angle looking towards the Brewery end




You will recall in my first post I showed an empty inner corner 





This is how I filled it...................yes more Metcalfe kits









I have mixed feelings about this.....I already had the units so it was very quick and easy but it is again questionable if you would see this in 1947 and you certainly wouldnt in the dirty gritty Welsh mining town I am trying to portray......as I wrote somewhere else too prosperous and too smug........it will have to go sometime.

On the other hand it has made the town busier and justifies more intensive operation of the branch than I had initially planned
:lol:
I really like Iain Rice's books and he believes for layouts to be plausible (my aim) they should have certain definitive signature items.......in his book on Industrial Layouts he states a skewed road bridge is a key signature element in a Welsh industrial town:

 









The substantial bridge support on the left hand side conceals two surface mounted point motors.......but thats another story when I get round to the electrickery

I will leave you with another building site




This is the inner corner beyond the bridge.....you can see the bridge support in the foreground. This is the site of the Branch Sub Shed which I will describe next post. You can see the coal stage,the shed road and a little siding for the Ash Wagon etc.

The grey ballasted track are the start of the branch climbing the 1:40 incline to the main track......the track in the foreground is a secondary branch staying at the lower level and leading towards the brewery


The sharp eyed will not a different style of wall. These are Wills.....I ran out of Langley but luckily the bridge hides the split!


So that covered a few weeks work in an hour.....we are up to mid October 2009 now!

Kind Regards from Vancouver

 

 

 

 

phill
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This is one heck of a layout mate, loads to see and still more when you look again. As for you saying that corner you done looks out of place, well with some severe weathering etc it look ok. Anyhow as the saying go's its your layout, run and put anything you like on it, :doublethumb.

Look forward to the next installment.

Phill

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Thanks for the encouragement Phil.........you are either up very late or very early......it must 4 am Thursday in the UK......its still Wednesday here!

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Great run of photographs, John.  It is like I have been around for a visit. :thumbs

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Most impressive! :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

Thomas

phill
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John Dew wrote: ....you are either up very late or very early......it must 4 am Thursday in the UK......its still Wednesday here!

Well always up by 3am every day, habit i supose. Its Thursday here.

Phill

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Lots of good work there, John.
Look forward to seeing your weathering.

Particularly like the rusty road bridge panels.

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Looks great, John. I think that your use of the Metcalfe 1/2 relief kits is inspired. I know from my own experience that it is difficult to make a home layout both look good and be practical to operate when you are closed in by 4 walls. Your use of the buildings to disguise the fiddle yard yet also give you access when needed is very clever, and I think your assembly of the kits into extensive terraces looks very effective.

I look forward to seeing more of your progress.

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I like the weathering on the steel girder bridge John. :thumbs  Also, I think, in spite of the slight "out of era" shop fronts and "high street" buildings, you're well on the way to capturing a busy town scene.

What have you used for the backdrop ?  Is it photographic or pasted cut-outs ?  Looks very good.

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Brilliant stuff John, thanks for sharing it with us. There's a wealth of inspiration there.

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John . In mho you are too critical of your efforts. This is excellent work ,and the speed with which you get on with things is also worthy of acclaim. look forward to more from this layout thread. :doublethumb

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Well you could get picky and say that there should be more stone buildings but brick terraces like that could be almost anywhere in the UK. Looks very convincing to me.

Cheers
Dave

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John, great run of photos! I too think you are too hard on yourself, I would be tickled pink to have a layout look like that!

I do like the way you have weathered your bridge, looks very natural.

Wayne

John Dew
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Thanks guys some of you will have guessed these photos have been used before although the narrative is different.....I am just finishing the station so I have a load of new ones to take

ddolfelin wrote:

Look forward to seeing your weathering.

Particularly like the rusty road bridge panels.

For me the problem with weathering Metcalfe is because its paper its very easy to over do it......I have difficulty using the wash and then dry brush technique that kind of works on plastic

As a result I tend to put it off............any advice or hints would be appreciated

Regards

 


 

 

ddolfelin
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Not from me I'm afraid, John - I only work in plastic.

Maybe the old crushed pastels on a finger would be best.
Wetting cardboard doesn't seem the best way.

John Dew
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Petermac wrote: I like the weathering on the steel girder bridge John. :thumbs  Also, I think, in spite of the slight "out of era" shop fronts and "high street" buildings, you're well on the way to capturing a busy town scene.

What have you used for the backdrop ?  Is it photographic or pasted cut-outs ?  Looks very good.


Thank you and all the others for their encouraging words........modelling on  my own I tend to get quite critical of myself when things dont fit into my fairly loose parameters!

The backscenes are terraced houses (again) cut from the Townscene sheets (which are quite excellent......does anyone know if they are still available?) I pasted them on to mount board and cut them out then I did the same with those slightly smaller shops they have........and glued them behind to create more depth.......I will try and take a better photo and post it next time.

The sky is medite (particle board) painted by my wife..............I have to create a sort of flat industrial scene with a chimney to hide the join  

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Hi John.  I gave up trying to weather with paint when I discovered weathering powders.

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=5518&forum_id=72

Cheers   Max

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Some great inspiration here! For my own layouts I have just to problems sorted: disguise the tracks with half relief - thank you John!:cheers

 

Whethering the buildings with powder - I use powder for my rolling stock, so why not for my buildings? Silly me! Thank you Max! :cheers

 

John, do not worry whether stone of brick - the mass and arangement of buildings on your layout looks stunning, youre really on a grand scale!:thumbs

 

Thomas

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i agree with all of the above,a very good layout
so stop beating yourself up.

:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

John Dew
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Thanks Owen......I guess I am my own biggest critic :exclam

So heres another update. First here is the trackplan for the branch... its not to scale but gives the general idea and hopefully puts the photos in context.

 


Its Peco Code 100 and except for the secondary branch curve after the road bridge the minimum radius is never less than 36". There are a couple of curved points but the rest are all medium radius. All bar two are powered by Peco Motors.....the two are my first foray with tortoises. The points are electrofrog (there is one insulfrog in the goods yard) and the points are modified so that I dont rely on the switch blade to provide electrical continuity. The polarity is switched by peco switches.....the small unreliable kind:twisted:, microswitches both from peco and an electronic store and of course the two tortoi. When it works not relying on the blade is a really good idea but if the switch goes its a total pain..............thats why I am switching :oops: (sorry) to tortoises plus the second switch will eventually enable me to operate signals.

The points are fully automated using a Lenz LS 150 point decoder....so they can be controlled either from the Lenz controller or the computor through RR & co (the track plan is actually a modified RR&Co Switch Plan

I use a belt and braces approach and have small manual switch panels adjacent to the decoder.....although in practice I find I use the manual switches less and less





This is probably a great example of the inflexibility of static panels like this.......the canal is now going to be at the other end of the layout and the carriage siding is no more.....I relaid the goods yard to get a cleaner entrance...........only needed a few keystrokes to update my computor switchboard

 I will leave you with this thought......the simplicity of DCC wiring is sometimes overstated :roll:
  

Regards from Vancouver

Last edited on Thu Dec 17th, 2009 04:23 pm by John Dew

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Just by the way:
a) Your Industrial backscene courtesy of Lowry has been noted!
b) I hope there is nothing important behind that door!

John Dew
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I am very fond of Lowry and have built up quite a collection of prints.....sadly no originals. My wife comes from Oldham and I worked in Manchester for some years. The one in front of the doorway has to be moved.....you can see on more recent shots it overhangs the proper backscene.

Just loads of junk from when we downsized and there is another way in:lol:

Kind Regards

 

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John,
      I'm a fellow Lowry fan.Many people think of him as a very naive artist,but I have a book of his drawings,and his "matchstalk men" were merely a style he adopted.Some of his early Life class drawings from his art school days are as good as you'll find anywhere.A massively underrated and misunderstood artist!!!
     He lived just up the road from us for a while in Mottram,and outside the house there is now a bronze statue of LSL sat sketching on a bench.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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georgejacksongenius wrote: John,
      I'm a fellow Lowry fan.Many people think of him as a very naive artist,but I have a book of his drawings,and his "matchstalk men" were merely a style he adopted.Some of his early Life class drawings from his art school days are as good as you'll find anywhere.A massively underrated and misunderstood artist!!!
     He lived just up the road from us for a while in Mottram,and outside the house there is now a bronze statue of LSL sat sketching on a bench.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

I wouldn't say that John !!  He's certainly too modern to be considered a "master" but his paintings are very much sought after and I wouldn't mind selling some of my "naive" sketches for what his are worth !!

I know what you mean, and I agree - I think he captured the "spirit" of Salford, not just "views" of the place.  You don't often see that in paintings.

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A signed print was sold at an auction on TV today.
£280 I think.

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John - For me the problem with weathering Metcalfe is because its paper its very easy to over do it......I have difficulty using the wash and then dry brush technique that kind of works on plastic As a result I tend to put it off............any advice or hints would be appreciated




I have an article about weathering on card as a sticky in the weathering section, it may be useful....I'd love to be let loose on all those card kits!! :lol:  Basically, use non-staining watercolours as washes, brush 'em on quick and wipe 'em off straight away if  it's not right and you won't go wrong, whereas all acrylics are by the nature of their composition 'staining' colours and you get no second chances..

Doug

Last edited on Thu Dec 17th, 2009 10:12 pm by Chubber

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Thanks Doug

I use watercolours to paint the cut lines and hide errors so I guess I just have to use them more extensively:lol:

I like the news about the auction I actually have a signed print says he quickly working out how many locos he needs/wants and  converting 250 UK into Can$ and back again because I buy all my stuff in the UK anyway

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Hi John

how far are you down the road with RR&co? what occupancy detectors do you use? i am about to embark on a journey with RR&co, i am looking forward to it and i can see many hours of frustration ahead:lol: i have a track plan that follows my design, no track down yet, have a look at my layout thread. i have had locos moving around with the simulator and working to schedules. it takes a long time to work out. the simulator seems a bit topsy turby at times with locos jumping from one block to the next and back again. maybe you or i should start a thread in the DCC section dedicated to RR&co as i am sure i will have loads of questions in the future. i am glad to have you on the forum as i think i was the only one dabbling in RR&co, unless they were being quite.

 

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Hi Matt

I was hoping to hear from you......I have been following both your layout thread (totally amazing) and the computor thread.

I think it would be great to start an RR&Co topic where we can share our experiences and ask questions etc...........what do you think.............should I start one in the DCC Section and answer your questions in the first post?

Which version of RR&Co are you using in demo mode? 

Perhaps you or Bob could let me know what would be best

Regards from Vancouver where its also very wet

ps (My wife's family comes from Chadderton and I met her in Oldham.....small world with the internet)

 

 

 

 

Last edited on Fri Dec 18th, 2009 06:26 pm by John Dew

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very small world John

the computer control thread has not seen an update for some time, i put together notes whilst researching PC control and decided to post the information i had. i decided to go Lenz, s88 occupancy detector and LS150 for points. i wanted to be as future proof as i could and the demo version i have is gold, i didn't want to get silver and then be restricted to what i can do. February should see my first track down and i hope to be live from that point. my layout will be in 3 stages with the storage yard first. if i can get these working the rest should be a doddle haha.  please feel free to start a RR&co thread up in the DCC section. i will add my bit and ask a few questions. alan done a questions and answer  thread in the photo section, one thread was a tutorial thread for how tos and the other was for questions etc. you could do one RR&co and another RR&co questions. i would help with my limited knowledge, the first thread could be for tutorials, setting up a block, S88, points etc. i will soon have loads to add when i get started. the BIGGEST problem i found with RR&co is knowledge, i couldn't find much info on the net about the software. the learning curve is like climbing a brick wall. i got very scared when reading through the manual 200 odd pages just covering the basics. i think a couple of tutorials showing what it does on the layout would go a long way.

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I think that's a great idea John. Speaking for myself it may help me to an insight of what's happening in the world of computer control.
At the moment the only thing my computer controls is me.  :roll:  :roll:

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Hi Bob and Matt

I will try and start something today. I like the idea of two sections Tutorial and Questions. I am still on the learning curve (maybe a 1/3 way up) so I suspect I will be better at dealing with questions but I will try and start a basic intro to RR&Co and then on to blocks, points and the dispatcher window.

Matt :  I will answer your questions above in my first post in the question section

Bob :  [a]  Would it be possible to set up a sub forum titled " RR&Co Computor Control" or if you want it to be more generic "DCC Computo Control "  Either way  I suspect this is a limited audience so I will quite understand if you would prefer me to just post generally in the DCC section...............you are the boss;-)

          Once I have posted could these messages be moved over to explain the context?              
  

 
Edited to remove Bold:oops:

 

Last edited on Sun Dec 20th, 2009 06:28 pm by John Dew

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And you want me to write about Computor Control and I cant even control the Bold icon:shock:

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As there is a sticky in the DCC section for Computer Control I will also do the same for your topic and they will sit one below the other, differentiated by their titles. If you are using a different method to the one already there then so much the better as members can't get enough information on what seems to me to be a tricky subject.

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Thanks Bob

I'll take the dog for a walk (its pouring again) and then get cracking

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I'll be watching out for it John.

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I got so wrapped up with the RR&Co Topic that I have kind of neglected this thread. A bit like my modelling:cry:

 At least now I can start talking about the branch.......starting at the Brewery end. You can see from the track plan in my last post that this is the sub engine shed and road bridge.

This is an overall shot. In the background you can see a liitle bit of the corner backscene and the 4 road mainline exiting the storage yard.....there is a small Platelayers hut and some sleepers to the right.  

In the foreground you can see the start of the line to the terminus and in front of that the secondary branch.

This is a fairly active shed......it will house the loco for the secondary branch auto train and a 57xx to bank the coal trains up the slope to the terminus. So I have tried to fit in quite a lot of detail and kept everything fairly tight as befits an urban shed. 



This is not as sharp as I would like......I took it before I started reading Alan's brilliant photography topic.

But it conveys, to some extent, the atmosphere I am searching for.



I used the next shot in my New Member Post. Both the shed and water tower are Ratio Models

 



On the next shot you can see a little bit of the ash pit and the pathetic amounts of ash I have inserted......thereby hangs a tale....I am told that BBQ ash is the next best thing to the real Mc Coy........So I carefully avoided clearing out the BBQ at the end of Summer only to find when I was ready to use it that SWMBO had strayed into alien territory with a misplaced idea of helping me:roll:  It will look better next summer




 

The Metcalfe Shop Fronts continue to jar until I give them the Vancouver Weather treatment (heavy rain:lol:) so I temporarily solved the problem this way:


 



 

This is the scratch built coal stage....... I have a double Ratio stage with a rather nice Mikes Models Coal Crane but it looked a bit too large so I will have to try and fit it into the terminus . There is another view of the pit and the short siding for loco coal






I have filled the front corner in front of the shed with another BLT Cliche........ a platelayers hut



But you know what? After I had installed it (feeling slightly embarrassed) I found almost exactly the same scene in a real life photo in one of Stephen Williams GWR Branchline books:thumbs

Next time I will go to the other end of the branch and show shots of the goods yard

Meantime I wish you all a Happy and Healthy New Year

 


 

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What a wonderfull layout that i have seen so far. So much character, lovely to the eye and things a plenty to see. A great credit to you mate.

Phill

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Great! An ideal place for loco potraits! Lots of detail, interesting to watch even without the trains running! I wish I had such a shed scene to photograph my locos!:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb.

Thomas

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Excellent work, John.

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Thanks for the comments guys.......you right to point out the absence of locos Thomas. Kind of dumb to post about the engine shed and not an engine in sight:oops: And you know what.......there are no locos in this post either............but I promise to correct it when I do my station post.....locos galore I promise:lol:

 Right now I will start at the other end of the Branch (the Colliery end) and show the goods shed and yard




This shows the yard as the branch, the left hand track, starts to curve round to go over the duck under. The nexrt track heads to the colliery and running alongside the Goods Shed is the cattle siding. The unfinished bit is there till I decide how to handle the signalling. The Bilteezi tenements are temporary while I again make up my mind how to complete the back scene.




The gated siding will lead to a timber mill. Above the cattle dock is the two road main line exit from the storage yard and beyobd that is the site of the colliery (2012?)






This shot gives an overall view of the end of the yard although the current absence of backscene makes it all look a bit too spacious







The shed is scratch built from Wills sheets. I built it originally for my first layout some 15 years ago before Ratio came out with their kit. It was too small for my last layout but got resurrected for the current layout......with my usual luck, in the previous layout ,this was not the viewing side and I had saved time as I thought by :shock:  making this side of plain card :twisted: 

More of this habit of mine later





The crane is from Mikes Models. You can see how narrow the yard is here (about 9") I had a lot of problems trying to get the layout acceptable and finally ripped it up and started again.....I won t bore you with all the detail!

I have tried to create a yard that isnt too crowded but is sufficiently busy to justify a pick up goods visit twice a day



 




This shows the coal yard running off the other side of the branch. I agonised about this for ages but am now satisfied it was quite common..........on the other hand I didnt install a trap point which I now realise I should have done.....eventually I will try and build a cosmetic one.


 


The Brake Van of the pick up goods in the background is a DS Model. Its a nice change from the ubiquitous 20 ton Brake Van but sadly is a bit too old for 1947 so I need to do some heavy weathering to justify its presence here



My Father was called Fred but he was not a Coal Merchant! My brother in law is called Grimes so I kept. the family connection going 

As a link to my computor thread I have now managed to automatically shunt the yard. The pick up goods comes in with 7 vans and goes out with 7 new after exchanging vans for vans in the shed and coal for empties in the coal siding. All in all it takes 18 separate moves.....and while quite satisfying is about as exciting as watching paint dry......but then I guess shunting was like that in real life. 

Next post....the station and then we are almost up to date

Regards from a wet Vancouver (its more like a monsoon than rain right now:cry:)

 


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You're building a lovely layout, John, with its own distinctive look. Very nice indeed.

Mike

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A beautiful layout, John. :thumbs

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Looks good John. :thumbs

Glad you named those tenements - I built some years ago - now long been "demolished" - but couldn't remember the make.

I like layouts with little "cameo" scenes and yours looks to have plenty.

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Agree with the other observations, John.
You've managed to create that elusive 'atmosphere'.

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Very 'look-at-able', John, with loads of stuff to make one linger over each picture like the window cleaner! Nice to see a cattle dock with attention paid to detail like the track infill and margins.

Doug

Last edited on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 10:17 am by Chubber

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Lovely layout mte, loads to look at each and everytime you click on any pic of it, beautifull.

Phill

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John I would like to echo the sentiments of others, a really nice layout. I particularly like your treatment of the stone work, especially your retaining wall. What make is it? You must have spent hours painting all the individual stones. I also like the low relief buildings in the backscene. I assume they are card - what make are they?

Bob(K)

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John, as all the others have said, A Super Layout! I like the mix you have with the detail, looks great.

Wayne

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:thumbs Just love the effects of all the terracing, Inspiring stuff! :doublethumb

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Guys......thank you very much for you kind comments......I am so sorry I took so long to acknowledge them.....I normally try and respond the next day

I really appreciate the feedback.....its very encouraging when modelling alone......I particularly appreciated the comments about atmosphere because that is what I strive to achieve.....as I said at the outset of this thread I think I know, at least to some extent, my limitations as a modeller,................so it has to be coarse gauge and broad brush. I try to make sure that the broad brush strokes are complementary and I try to make sure that all the scenes hang together which is why, despite your kind comments, I continue to whine to myself about the town centre........I will weather it.....I promise.

To answer your questions......the absolute back against the wall back scene are cut out and mounted from Townscene Sheets.....the Mid Scene between the storage yards and the branch is composed of Metcalfe half relief Terraced Houses and shops......at the Brewery end I have temporarily put some Bilteezi Tenements

With the exception of the Engine Shed where the walls are from Wills all the rest are from Langley.....Three different vintages 1996, 2002 and 2009......and sadly it shows......I have tried to separate the years with bridges and conceal wear and tear with ivy......but you cant replicate 13 years of natural weathering.

As I wrotr in my welcome thread I do a lot of this repetitive painting during the summer, on the boat. Very relaxing, at anchor, glass of rose in one hand ,paint brush in the other. Problem is if I get too relaxed I dip the brush in the wrong glass and the wine gets a bit murky:twisted:

Regards from Vancouver

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John Dew wrote: ..........As I wrotr in my welcome thread I do a lot of this repetitive painting during the summer, on the boat. Very relaxing, at anchor, glass of rose in one hand ,paint brush in the other. Problem is if I get too relaxed I dip the brush in the wrong glass and the wine gets a bit murky:twisted:

Regards from Vancouver

It can also mean the painting could smell a bit alcoholic  :mutley

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That just helps with the elusive atmosphere:lol:

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John Dew wrote: That just helps with the elusive atmosphere:lol:
Elusive or Exclusive  :twisted:

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Broad brush, alcoholic or not, the overall effect and atmosphere is very pleasing.

Just show's me how far I have to go...

Nice work, please keep the story going. Love the idea of painting in the boat.

cheers

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:cheers Been there with both wine and coffee which add dimension to watercolour! Layout looks great!

Cheers,

John

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John Dew wrote: ......................................................................................................Very relaxing, at anchor, glass of rose in one hand ,paint brush in the other. Problem is if I get too relaxed I dip the brush in the wrong glass and the wine gets a bit murky:twisted:

Regards from Vancouver

As long as you only do that late in the day John - it won't matter !!  Rose has a habit of looking murky after the first few !!!!

I thoroughly enjoyed reading about your thinking behind the layout and believe me, it really does work. :cheers:cheers:cheers

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Thanks again for the encouraging comments.......this is being typed with a glass of Pinot Gris but there the resemblance ends.....its pitch black outside and pouring with rain and I am watching Hockey (Ice Hockey to the non Canadians)

So I want to start on the station.....I am still 4 weeks behind real time and I would like to catch up because I am getting to the construction stage when I suspect I need some input.....anyway back to last November




This is a very old model of the Ratio Kit ...you can see after 2 house moves Ive lost the finials. The painting scheme was done before I got my head around when to use chocolate brown.....I promised locos in my last post.....well at least here are the carriages of the branch B Set

Here is the same shot in Black and White




It seems to me you get quite a different atmosphere.....I keep meaning to take more of these

Moving down towards the platform this is a Mikes Models GWR Water Crane




The white under the carriage is a bit of plasticard, since painted out, to adjust the position of the Kaydee. Its amazing what you learn about your layout posting threads like this .......oh and I have re positioned the rear light!

The track in the foreground is the bay......and I guess this is as near as the branch gets to a throat with the branch line connecting to the bay and then to the relief loop with the loop running on to the Engine Shed Siding....behind the crane you can see the point lever for the Engine Shed Coal Siding

 

 



Apparently there was a board of trade regulation that insisted on ramps at the end of platforms....not steps.....sadly I found this out after I installed the platform......too late now.

 

 

Here is a long shot of the station from the Road Bridge looking towards the goods yard




I see to my chagrin that yet again not a loco in sight......anyway this shows the B Set at the platform and the loco has run round the train and detached the siphon and shunted it into the bay.......all automatically........ honestly.....blatant plug for my RR&Co Computor control thread......read all about it!!!

This end of the platform is deliberately left uncluttered.....there will be about 10 trips a day with the B Set to the terminus and maybe 8 with the autotrain connection from the secondary branch. All the activity, that there is, will be at the station end

 


 

This is a close up of the Siphon.....Shirescene Sides on a Ratio 4 wheel chassis. I am somewhat proud of it and therefore havent yet plucked up the courage to weather it.......but a pristine Siphon in 1947.....I dont think so.....its got to be done!




For once I got the depth of field almost acceptable.....hope you are reading this Alan.

Bearing in mind the layout is called Granby you may be confused by this station sign...............Granby, which is quite fictional....think Wrexham/Chester, is the, as yet, unbuilt terminus........Cynwyd is the name of the branch

Cynwyd is a real location, it had a station about two miles from Corwen on the old GWR line to Barmouth.  I remember it as a small boy over 60 years ago. I googled it recently and it didnt seem to have changed much......its certainly much smaller than the small town I have created.

I ran into a bit of a problem while I was finishing the station. If you look at the base of the lamp post and the sign posts, you will see they are somewhat different. I ran out of Rail Match Dark and Light Stone. The Royal Mail were on strike so rather than wait I decided to mix my own. The sign posts and bench are my mix. The interesting thing is that, to my eyes, the shade is much closer to the photos I have of Didcot than the lamp post base....go figure. My original excuse would be that they mixed the paint on site with white lead and other realy healthy ingredients but I now understand from the thirties on they bought in bulk from paint suppliers.....so that wont wash.......I guess they just weathered differently.

Vancouver are tying with Calgary 2-2 (think Liverpool Everton, Portsmouth Southampton, Rangers Celtic) so I had better focus on the TV..............to be continued   

 

 

 

 

 

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Thats a heck of a size platform John and a splendid looking layout. Like the signal box pic as well, plenty of detail to look at. Thanks.

Phill

Last edited on Sun Jan 10th, 2010 09:51 am by phill

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Never mind about 'broad brush' John, this is fine work.

If the platform steps bother you, just put a sign up 'Staff Access Only'.
This railway is run in accordance with YOUR rules and regs.

Your hockey just seems to the untrained eye an excuse for a punch-up.

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It is always possible to get a derogation from the rules.  Redruth station has no ramps at one end, just steps down just like you have there.  Looking very proper.

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:thumbs The more I look at your photos the more I appreciate the thought gone into the workmanship. Congratulations, John.

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John

Thats a very atmospheric station.

I do like the weathering and generally decrepit look of the corrugated hut by the station building - you have got that spot on.

What is the hut - scratch built or kit ?

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Superb photos John,  plenty of inspiration.  Thanks for sharing them.

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Some great pictures,John...reeking of GWR atmosphere!Looks the business.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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 Looks really good to me John, i wouldn't worry about the signal box, it looks 'Lived in' :thumbs

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Keep it coming John,
Enjoying the story very much.
cheers

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From what I've seen of it, Wrexham Station is a little strange in appearance now.
I assume the line was just truncated and a 1970s type frontage built.
Doesn't gell together somehow.

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Well thanks again for all the encouraging comments.........really appreciated

To answer some of the specific points.....I dont think I can do multi quotes

Phil : I think the photo extends the perception of the platform length. Its 40" long......thats 3 carriages plus loco......most times it will only have to handle 2 carriages 

Ddolfenin:  If I keep stressing broad brush it kind of covers up the flaws that do appear......but thank you. I know I can (and do;-) change the rules) but I always feel more comfortable with a precedent so thank you Chris for giving me Redruth

I am afraid you are right about the hockey.....its the only sport I know where the competitors are virtually encouraged to fight....its bizarre because they are subsequently sent to the penalty box after the refs have watched them fight for a couple of minutes. Whatever..... I am sure you are all saddened to hear that Vancouver lost to Calgary in a penalty shoot out.....draws are not permitted in North America

Wheeltapper:  I am pretty certain its either a Cooper Craft or Wills Kit......had it for a while so there is some natural weathering. It, and a similar kit from Mikes Models, can make a nice contrast withe more ubiquitous Cooper Craft lamp hut.  

Ddolfenin: Wrexham Station...............how times change! The town used to have three stations : General GWR, Central which was Grand Central and then LNER and Exchange which was used jointly by GC (LNER) and Cambrian (GWR). I will have to fudge my "legend" for Granby because although I have a couple of LNER trains my second (and secondary) loco stud is actually LMS......so maybe Chester is better! 

Its quite curious in a way....one doesnt really associate the LNER with North Wales......although they did jointly operate (with LMS) the adjacent Cheshire Lines which was quite extensive    

Regards from a very very wet Vancouver.....we need all that snow you guys have in the UK...the Olympics open here in 4 weeks:cry:

 

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John,
       You can HAVE all the snow that's fallen in Hyde over the last 3 weeks!!! I was hoping,as I always do,for a White Christmas..........Boy did we get one!I am so SICK of the sight of it now!!!
       How would you like me to send it?
:hmm:hmm

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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georgejacksongenius wrote:

John,
       You can HAVE all the snow that's fallen in Hyde over the last 3 weeks!!! I was hoping,as I always do,for a White Christmas..........Boy did we get one!I am so SICK of the sight of it now!!!
       How would you like me to send it?
:hmm:hmm

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

oops who knocked the head off your snowman,so don`t come out to play see if we care ...

:mutley:mutley:mutley:cool:

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John, I may have mislead you about Wrexham.
This is because I'm an idiot.

Google gives the following references to Wrexham area:

Wrexham General Railway Station

Wrexham Central Railway Station

Gwersyllt Railway Station

Cefn-y-Bedd Railway Station

Caergwrle Railway Station

Hope (Flintshire) Railway Station

Chirk Railway Station

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Interesting reading up on them on Wiki too.
Of course, only the first two are in Wrexham.

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The rail network around Wrexham was amazingly complex

More about Cynwyd station and at last some locos!

Here in Black and White is the autotrain from the secondary branch that runs by the brewery pulling in to the bay, as the small Prairie completes running around the B Set prior to leaving for Granby







This is an old Dapol coach which I have attempted to detail a little. Hand rails picked out, Indian Red around the windows etc.....and after the photo I fixed a headlamp on:oops:





At least I had the correct lamps for this shot!

Now moving nearer to the station building itself...... this is looking up towards the bay 

 




The Milk Churn cameo was introduced not only to justify the daily siphon trip but also to suggest that there was a loading bay and road in front of the suggestion. Milk traffic may seem a little odd in a Mining Town but I remember the Vale of Clwyd as having a number of Dairy Farms. Similarly 1947 may seem a little late for Milk Churns but I am pretty comfortable that both Churns and Tankers were used in the 40s. 





You can clearly see the Ratio antecedents of the Station Building althoughtthere have been a number of modifications. Its actually an amalgam of two kits. I think it would look more at home in the West country but I have tried to weather it a lot




Before we move on here is a little diversion about the footbridge that you can see on the right of this shot



When I was showing the shots of the wall and Goods Yard the sharp eyed will have spotted an opening in the parapet:







The space was left to accommodate a footbridge that I wanted to install that would link the backscene with the foreground. I looked at a number of kits but none seemed quite suitable and then I remembered I had two of these  from the previous layout


:

Myansome will probably recognise them.....they are the steps from a Knightwing Kit that I must have painted 15 years ago.

Frantic search in the "It may come in handy one day" box revealed this:


 

2 Sides and a floor but only 1 Roof panel......obviously the other one had  already "come in handy" for another project. Fortunately I had some Wills Corrugated Sheets......no problem..............

however I seemed to have something of a height problem:




 Nothing that an Exacto knife cant solve..............................However:

 




Yet again I had painted only one side! :twisted:

And this is when I discovered I had run out of Rail Match Dark and Light Stone.......not the fastest seller in Vancouver Model Shops

So all this became an interesting and challenging Christmas project.

To be continued

Kind Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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John Dew wrote:

 





So all this became an interesting and challenging Christmas project.

To be continued


 
 So it will be next Christmas John when the new footbridge finally installed :question :mutley

Last edited on Sun Jan 17th, 2010 05:11 am by

John Dew
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There is a happy ending:lol:

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I can confirm that the Vale of Clwyd is still rich in Dairy Farms - I have good friends among them.

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and i can confirm that they did use churns in the 40`s plus small tankers ie-four wheelers.

:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

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owen69 wrote: and i can confirm that they did use churns in the 40`s plus small tankers ie-four wheelers.

:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

And I can certainly confirm that churns were still in use during my agricultural student days in the 1950's and early 60's !!

A different shape but nevertheless still very much in use and picked up by 4 wheel flatbed lorries with chain "sideboards" to hold them on.  Churns started to disappear in the mid 1960's as dairy farmers moved over to bulk tanks and had virtually gone by the end of that decade.

Excellent cameo shots John although I do worry about what "elf and softy" would say regarding that footbridge !!!!!

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This one heck of a gorgeous layout mate, love the detail you have done. Is the footbridge for thos who have had enough of life then :thumbs:mutley

Phill

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:thumbsLooking cool, John. Yes, I do remember those panels from the footbridge ........ hmmmmmmmmm .......... I feel that you will be doing rather a better job than I did on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love the idea you've got for its use. Looking forward to seeing this completed.

I can'y get over these terraces ......... the more I look at them, I find it fascinating how you've developed the background with them! Cool!

Looking great, mate!

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phill wrote:  Is the footbridge for thos who have had enough of life then :thumbs:mutley

Phill


I like that one liner Phil :lol:

OK so how did the bridge project go?




Initially I wasnt sure how close  a representation it was to a GWR footbridge......most seemed to have lattice work or cast iron panels rather than the wood structures on the model. Then I saw photos of the bridge at Llanngolen (sp?) and its actually quite a good resemblance.




I may have weathered it a little too heavily and it doesnt bear too close a scrutiny as you will see when I show the smoke baffles. However, I think, on balance, it serves a useful purpose in linking the fore scene with the backscene in a meaningful way. 

It also provides an opportunity for those clusters of lamp huts which are so typical of GWR Branch Stations

 




Then I remembered, when I was a boy, the suburban station near Liverpool and the bikes stored under a bridge





When I was researching the bridges I noticed they invariably had smoke/spark baffles or deflectors which are not always modelled and certainly didnt come with this kit 




So I scratch built these from plasticard and the little strips you get with Wills Checker Plate Metal

This shot shows them more clearly but also shows up all the flaws:oops:

 




You may be wondering why I have a garage in this particular location

 




 

 

All is revealed

 




I switch the frog polarity on all the points and this was the fourth of the peco switches to go. It was impossible to replace 3  of the switches below the board so they had to be surface mounted.....the other 2 are hidden by the road bridge Very very frustrating and started the slow progression to Tortoises which I am installing on all the new trackwork.

Anyway the legend is that it houses the station Mechanical Horse and I am installing a petrol pump to give it a bit more credibilty.

The Scammel I have is a very old model and not really good enough to be in the foreground. I think the next time I order from the UK I will get one of the Oxford ones. 




Apart from signals which are the next job thats the Branch completed........ I think. The reason for my uncertainty is whether I have left too much open space in the forecourt area shown here. On the one hand it is only a branch but the town has grown and there are two different services planned.....maybe a few more passengers.

Alternatively I really want to get some soldiers into the scene. In 1947 the Army was 10 times its present size. Every male between the ages of 18 and 25 had to serve for two years. There were servicemen everywhere and they all travelled by train! So I am working on a little cameo of Langley Soldiers and a couple of Coopercraft lorries and I cant quite make up my mind whether it might be too much here and I should save them for the terminus.....

.........decisions....... decisions its a tough life

Any way thats it we are now up to the week before last in building terms

Kind Regards from Vancouver

 


 

 

 

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Nice work, John.  I've enjoyed your excellent modeling - especially that bridge. :doublethumb

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A very good device for interconnecting the scenery, John.

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Maybe some smoke stains on the deflectors?

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That's just not fair John - I had already selected my next "Member's Nomination" and now you've thrown it all into chaos again !!!

I think that footbridge and the detail on and around it is superb.  The weathering is certainly not too heavy on my computer and I can't see anything wrong at all with the smoke deflectors.

Granby has joined my list of "favourite layouts to watch" - it looks just great. :thumbs:thumbs

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 I like what you have done with the footbridge John, it makes a change from the usual 'up over and down' :doublethumb

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That's really super John, brilliant job :doublethumb

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I wish to complain about this thread.......

I have spent too much modelling time looking at all the little details!

Thanks for posting it,

Doug




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Doug is right, why is it i struggle to make scene`s like that ?
they are spot on .

:wow:lol::lol::cool:

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John, every photo is informative and entertaining. Great work!

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I've only just caught this thread and skimmed the 6 pages looking at the photos. Excellent job sir, it just oozes atmosphere. Keep it up and keep posting:pathead

I'm now going back to the first page to actually read it all :cheers

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Superb job you've done on that bridge.Some excellent details going into this station now,John.
I'm officially very envious!! Pure GWR.


Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Yes even i have to admit a fab GWR station, yes i said fab ok, :roll:

Phill

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Thank you all so much for your nice comments:lol:. It is really very encouraging to get this sort of feedback.

I am very chuffed, and somewhat surprised, to have the bridge voted in as photo of the week particularly when there were so many other excellent shots.

I guess I am lucky it happened this week because ,as you are about to see, I have embarked on another construction phase and although I am looking forward to reporting it, I dont imagine there will be any photos even approaching nomination status for a while.

I have now virtually finished one long side of the layout so the next project is to develop the two short ends and build some  storage sidings for the branch on the undeveloped long side.

So starting with the brewery end here is the blank canvas

 




To the right is the Branch engine shed. At the back is the 4 road mainline exiting the storage yard and heading for the terminus




The main baseboard will be 1" higher on the left hand side and you can see the fairly gentle gradient on the main line. I needed the extra height because I changed my mind (again) and decided to run 2 long storage sidings for the branch underneath the main level


 

This is the branch line climbing to connect with the main line and on a much steeper gradient (1:40)..... I have checked this with some stock and it seems to be ok but I will only relax when I get long coal trains climbing up......the curve by the retaining wall on the right is more of a concern in that it is rather less than the 36" radius I aspire too......but again so far so good......one of the advantages of RR&Co is whenever there is some dodgy track you just bring the maximum speed right down.....fine for a secondaty branch

The next shot is a close up of the card formers I cut and glued for the embankment foundation




The track in front is the minor branch connecting with the branch storage sidings and the brewery......the radii here are down to 24" and I have used some set track curves




 The formers were covered with damp paper towel painted over with dilute white glue




I painted the paper with  brown and green acrylics. I hadnt expected the indentations to show up to the extent they did but it wasnt a huge issue because I always planned to add Woodland Scenics Turf as per the lower embankment




The brown section in the centre is a bit too steep for grass so I created a rock face with bits of cork





I then slapped on lots of black and brown acrylic and dry brushed with grey and added some green shrub. Most of the grass on the embankment is burnt turf which I havent used before but I am quite pleased with the effect.

 


The retaining wall is cut from a sheet I got from Langley for the viaduct at the other end.......its perfect for this situation, where I have a curve and a gradient, because its both flexible and easy to cut. The coping stones are plasticard with little notches cut in for the mortar.

 




 

 

 

So having done all this detail its going to be covered from view by buildings!

The ubiquitous Metcalfe Brewery:

 




I want to create an impression of something more than a country boutique brewery. I would have liked to have used Metcalfes brick mill or factory but they are both currently out of production.......so I settled, with some misgivings to go with the square building on the right as an extension to the warehouse/bottling plant with offices above......but it has sort of grown on me and there is a fairly credible reason for an extension.

The plan is to do some fairly heavy weathering with some detailing.........drain pipes gutters etc. My wife thinks that pale blue is highly unlikely for North Wales so I am going to attempt to paint the blue stuff over with dark green water colour.......yes I know......I am a brave man Gunga Din!.......anyway time will tell

 




I have added a Metcalfe Sandhouse and Water Tank and in the far right I hope to build a gatehouse from bits and pieces left over from some Engine Sheds

 




 Although I can claim to some modest knowledge of the brewing industries products.......I know very little about  how beer is actually produced.

This is very much work in progress........I am not planning a perfect scale model of a brewery but I would like to create a diorama that looks credible. Any suggestions regarding the building layout would be much appreciated.

In the foreground there will be a large cobblestoned (Metcalfe) yard with two sidings one storage and one serving the loading bays.......I realise the infill will be a challenge!

From the left there will be a large coal dump serving the water tank/boilerhouse (which conceals the siding point motor) with a tall shirescenes chimney behind. In front is the Cooperage using the Sandhouse and chimney ,Wills Timber store and Shire Scene freebie.

  Then what I believe is the malt store, followed by the brewhouse and small warehouse. Attached to the warehouse is the new office/warehouse extension. There will be a few other small buildings,bike sheds etc

If I have the sequence wrong or omitted something crucial please let me know

I am trying to get me head around how the coal wagons would be emptied and the coal subsequently mover to the boiler house.......I doubt if there would be between the rail drops ............I was toying with some sort of scratch built rudimentary conveyor but again any suggestions would be welcome

 

Kind Regards from Vancouver 

  

  

 

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That's going to be an excellent little "area" John and, like you, whilst I know of the brewers products, what magic they work within the buildings is a mystery so I can't help on omissions !!

I'm interested in the paper towel idea for the embankment.  How many layers of towel did you use and had you any concerns about putting damp towels on card formers ?  Did you simply paint the diluted glue on and how strong is the finished surface ?  Could you, for intstance, drill holes to carry trees or telegraph poles ?

It really is coming along very well. :thumbs

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John
I like the way you have done the embankments and retaining walls, the final result is very effective. Also that brewery looks the part and makes a very fine foreground, giving the whole layout superb depth. I like if very much.

Bob(K)

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Looking good there John

William

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Thanks for the comments Guys

 

Petermac wrote:

I'm interested in the paper towel idea for the embankment.  How many layers of towel did you use and had you any concerns about putting damp towels on card formers ?  Did you simply paint the diluted glue on and how strong is the finished surface ?  Could you, for intstance, drill holes to carry trees or telegraph poles ?



I only put on an average 3 layers......roughly torn and randomly laid......and painted each layer with glue, thus only the first layer was actually damp before the glue was applied. I keep a jar of diluted glue for ballasting and I used that to thin the neat glue that I splattered over the area......I just used an old artists wide paint brush.

 The formers did not appear to be affected and the surface has dried hard and quite firm. I used this technique on my earlier layout and there I was less impatient and put on more layers.....the indentations were less obvious and I did drill the surface for fence posts

Hope that helps

Kind Regards

 

 

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John

A small brewery would probably not had the need for a large number of coal wagons delivered so they would most likely to be off loaded by hand using the good old shovel , with the coal guided down a temporary shute made from a piece of rusty corrugated iron  into a wheel barrow or alternatively into a small narrow gauge tub/hopper wagon which would be pushed by hand into the boiler house . A short piece of Peco 009 crazy track and a couple of skip wagons would be all you need.

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That area is looking really good, John. You should have some fun with RR&Co shunting full and empty wagons around that brewery. Congrats on the front page, by the way. Well deserved.

Cheers

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This is looking very good mate, love the way you have built the embankment, love it.

Phill

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Geoff R wrote: That area is looking really good, John. You should have some fun with RR&Co shunting full and empty wagons around that brewery. Congrats on the front page, by the way. Well deserved.

Cheers


Thanks Phil and Geoff......much appreciated.

As you will shortly see shunting the brewery will indeed present some challenges:twisted:

Kind Regards

phill
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Any chance of a video shot of you shunting when you have it all sorted, love to se this in action.

Phill

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Some great work going on in this new section,John.And so fast too!! Your work-rate puts me to shame!:oops:
  More please! And yes,I agree with GWR Phill....I'd love to see some vids of the layout "in action".

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Thanks again for all the comments guys. I cant believe its 6 weeks since I last wrote about Granby......I hope I dont get a warning letter from Bob:lol:. I guess my excuse is Matilda, the actual Olympics and a really nasty dose of flu.

I have actually made some progress on the brewery yard and yes the infill has been a right pain. To get a break I decided to finish the Branch Signalling, another job I had been putting off! You guys have been far too kind too me. Until 2 weeks ago I didnt have one signal on the layout:shock:. I am surprised Petermac entrusted Matilda to me, although I suppose you can only go one way on a ski jump.

I think many of you will be puzzled by my ambivalent approach to signalling (I certainly am!)..............on the one hand I attempt to have the signalling diagram absolutely prototypical and correct in every way yet on the other , when I am really honest with myself, I know they will never work! Thus I will agonise over the accuracy and positioning of the Down Home yet not turn a hair when the Down Goods routinely rolls past it at Danger.......go figure! 

The problem is that a GWR Branch in 1947 has to have semaphore signals. Frankly, expense apart, I dont think I have the ability to make effective working models. I am lost in admiration at Geoff's achievements.

Anyway, enough handwringing, for better or for worse, working or non working there is no question Signals add the the final touch to a layout..........look at this before and after




 




It is astonishing how many signals one actually needs on such a small section of single line track. There are 14 signal posts (some bracketed) and 6 ground signals. I tried to balance doing it "properly" and not making it over signalled. I got some really helpful advice from the resident gurus on another forum (some of which you will see, I ignored:oops: ) So here is the signal diagram:




Starting from the right we have

[1] Down Home for both the main branch and the brewey branch...........and here is one of the first problems......the junction has to be protected but subsequently a train can go to one of three lines....the bay,main or loop. So the experts said I either make this an advanced home and have an additional 3 bracket signal jist beyond the junction in front of the bridge or each signal would have to have three brackets. I felt either solution would look too busy and lacked credibilty. So I supplied each signal with an indicator board which you can just see on this shot




2 Advanced Starters for each line are facing us above. The main signal has a distant for the next block. Advanced Starters are required because there is a lot of shunting over the junction so the station limits are placed beyond.

3 Up Starters

Next shot shows the Starters for Bay and Main. Again you can see the difference compared with earlier shots I have posted of this area. Technically both Starters should be double brackets but again I felt that would be over signalled.




4 Ground Signals  The engine shed siding and Up relief starter are controlled by these.

5 Down Loop and Goods Yard Entrance

At one stage I was going to control these with ground signals but I was advised it would be more appropriate to use GWR short signal arms. It kind of makes sense because the Pick Up Goods have to enter the Engine Shed Siding before they can clear the relief xover and back into yard. Thats a scale 100 yards away so it would be difficult to spot the ground signal. I got conflicting advice about the yard signal. CJ Freezer suggests a backing arm but others say this was rarely used and a siding signal is better.

 

 
 

6 Down Starter and 7 Goods Yard Exit and Ground Signals

The Down Starter has a short post to give the driver a clear line of sight under the bridge. The Goods Yard Siding exit would always be on a short pole

 




7 Down Advanced Starter

Bracketed signal controlling the mine branch Junction with a distant for the next block on the main. Advanced starter is used again because of shunting

You can see the signals controlling the Up access to the junction in the background along with the second signal box. I was doubtful about a second box here because I had this idea that the distance between boxes is 700 yards and this is a scale 500 yards.......in fact 700 yards is the distance between blocks with the b ox in the middle because 350 yard is the maximum distance for mechanical control.

Apart from anything else it neatly fitted a blank spot as well




Here are the Up Signals controlling the junction complete with Distants for Cynwyd box 

I use Ratio Kits but had to use their tubular steel version here.....they are a bit too flimsy but actually are quite authentic for the period




I unearthed a Dart Casting kit of a token exchange apparatus which I must have had for at least 15 years and had completely forgotten about so the Mine Branch operates on the Single Engine in Steam Principle which cuts out a few more signals.

Here is an overall shot



On the farside you can see the Pick Up apparatus and near side the Set Down hook ("the horn") and safety net 



Here is a close up of the pick up arm. The token is set at a height and angle so that the fireman can hook his arm through it without stopping the train. I am not sure if tokens were in fact red but this at least stands out so I wount lose it.....it can be removed from the holder.


 



Finally a shot of the horn on which the fireman would deposit the token on his return journey and the safety netting if he missed. The close up is rather cruel and exposes my rushed painting but does give a good idea of how it operated.

 



And thats it...................I hope it hasnt been too boring or repetitive. I realise the minutae of GWR Branch signalling in 1947 is something of a minority interest but I would welcome any comments or criticism particularly if I have done anything glaringly incorrect...............other than they should work:sad:

Kind Regards from Vancouver where the sailing season is fast approaching



 

 

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:pathead. . . it all looks pretty impressive, John - not that I can begin to understand it.  :oops:   I have enjoyed the chance to get some more looks at your excellent scenery, though.  :thumbs

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Now this was well worth the wait. Interesting to read and lots of lovely pictures! :thumbs

Thomas

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Oh my Lord.
Another load of stuff to buy and a vast compendium of knowledge to assimilate.

Extremely well done.

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"Oh my Lord.
Another load of stuff to buy and a vast compendium of knowledge to assimilate.

Extremely well done."


Woteesed x 2!


Is a model railway ever finished?

Thank you for taking the time to include an explanation, too.


Doug

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John,
      Re the picture in post 119(last piccy),featuring the token apparatus...I'm not 100% sure,but I think they were usually on the firemans' side.(left for GWR),so your gadget should be on the same side as your Royal Mail pick-up!
      I don't recall ever seeing a token taken by a driver,he'd be busy driving!!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

P.S. Ditto for the pick-up horn for the token!

Last edited on Sun Mar 28th, 2010 10:41 pm by georgejacksongenius

John Dew
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Thanks for all the comments guys I was worried it would all be too dry so I am glad you liked it

Thanks for the question regarding the token, John B.

I may not have been clear enough........The token is to cover access to the mine branch travelling  from left to right......so the token pick up  is positioned on the left, Firemans side............similarly the horn and safety net are on the Firemans side for the journey out of the mine branch..............does that make sense?? 

Kind Regards

 

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Wow John - as you say, it's amazing just how many signals are needed and it's something many (I'd guess most !!) of us never think about.  We just put a signal somewhere "near a turnout" !! :oops::oops:  Well done for researching it all and "making it happen" - it does make a huge difference. :thumbs


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hi john

i have been looking at my layout the past couple of nights trying to figure out haow i will put in my 3 aspect signals:eek: that is just half of the problem, the other half is working out how to use them in TC. you are right that the signals are the finishing touch.

great job:thumbs

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John,
      Just re-read the caption to those token apparatus pictures again. My Bad!!!
In my defence,I was very tired,and not paying enough attention to reading your explanation.You were/are of course absolutely right,and I'm pleading a senior moment!!:oops::oops::oops:
     (I even thought the net was for a mail pick-up!!:roll:)
:mutleyooooppps!!!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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No problem John...........although you had me worried for a bit

Out of interest what colour(s) should the token be based on what you have seen?

Regards

 

 

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White would be a more appropriate colour, although it was probably worn to shiny metal if anything!  Red would not normally used because of the danger of it being mistaken for an actual signal.

This rule held true right up until Chris Green painted all the lamp posts red and installed red platform seats everywhere, causing an outcry among drivers which was ignored.

John Dew
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Thanks Chris

So I didnt need to paint it after all........its a white metal kit!

I guess next time I have the silver paint open I ll give it a once over

Regards

 

 

 

John Dew
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Ok so back to the brewery. I have decided that I am useless at posting weekly updates no matter how many resolutions I make.

It is now virtually finished and I think this is just the second post. This, then, is a kind of interim or linking post before I show you the finished module next week.

The embankments and walls you have already seen. I then ballasted the branch track and fixed the boundary fence in place. All a bit redundant because most of it will be obscured by the brewery buildings

I then used some spare Foam board to build up the baseboard to track level.......well actually as I found to my cost.....and as you can see about 1/8" above track level.......not quite the plan and caused me a load of problems later on.

On top of the Foam board I pasted Metcalfes Sets.......this is a new version, they are not self adhesive or embossed like the previous version but I think I prefer them.......they still have a textured surface and if you weather them with pastels they can look quite authentic




Operation in the Brewery yard is key because, using RR&Co, I intend to automatically shunt on a daily basis picking up 3 wagons and replacing them with 3 others. So I decided to sacrifice appearance to operation so the infill gaps are a bit wider than they should be.



This shows  one of the 2 uncoupling magnets and the single point. I deliberately departed from my standard practice of 36" min radius and med radius points and put in a short radius because I wanted to replicate those tight flange squealing curves one got on industrial track.

As this is a warts and all thread I must reveal that for reasons I dont understand I installed an insulfrog......to ensure the loco could really crawl.....didnt bother to switch polarity the way I normally do.......then screwed up the wiring.......then found the loco stalled repeatedly and ripped up everything before discovering that my infill had prevented the switch balde from making contact........................so I took a deep breath.......two fingers of malt and finished the signalling!

A couple of weeks later I started installing some of the buildings



Followers of Matilda's Travels may be confused in that the building on the right was last seen at the Olympics masquerading as a ski lift building.......amazing the bargains one can pick up at post Olympic Sales. I have added some Wills drain pipes and done some weathering and detailing 

Here is a close up and you can see my attempts to dirty down the rather pristine pale blue that Metcalfe provide. Again I have added some drain pipes, guttering and detail



Here is a before for reference




As you will shortly see I really went to town on this one.

Hopefully I will post the conclusion and happy ending to the Brewery saga next week..........right now modelling is edging down the priority list as spring is on its way here and there is a ton of work to do on the boat before we head down to Seattle.

Regards from a very very wet Vancouver

 

 



 

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You've done a good job on the "grubbiness" and detailing John - everything looks as if it's been there for years. :thumbs:thumbs

Has that post-Olympic sale finished ?  I could do with the odd bargain here in a very wet France................:roll::roll::roll:

I hope you're right about spring arriving - I'm sick of this lot !!!!

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Well, Peter, I hope this cheers you and every one else up a bit!


Doug



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Thanks Doug..............that just reminded me that in addition to the boat I have to get cracking in the garden.............meantime here is the Brewery virtually completed.

This was before I put the end moulding on but gives an adequate overall impression. The aim is to create an image of a compact industrial site that has grown through the ages............still active, busy and very grimy!




Starting from the right there is the relatively modern bottling plant and distribuition warehouse last scene as a ski lift building

The area to the extreme right will be a staff car park......even in 1947 there would be cars for the directors and senior managers.......I have always been short of road vehicles so this was a good excuse to get some ordered.....particularly with a strong Canadian $  (Thats the good news...the bad news part of my pension is in UK L!!)





On the left is a gatehouse/entrance lodge built from Metcalfe scraps

I decided to perpetuate Matilda's visit by naming the Brewery's principal product...."Sam the Ram Best Bitter"



Before anyone else makes the comment......If I had a day job I won't give it up for a career in advertising!

I want the brewery to look busy so I have raided my store of Dapol (ex Airfix) figures...............I am not sure if people rolled barrels this way but it looks fairly credible to me



This shows, rather cruelly, my attempts at painting out Metcalfe's pristine and somewhat unlikely Pale Blue. You can also see the start of the pipework I have inserted to connect the various buildings.




More Dapol figures, ancillary structure and clutter. The camera is very cruel I was certain I had water coloured the cut on the corner of the platform

 




 




The boilerhouse is a Metcalfe water tower and a Scalescene Chimney




Dooferdog has been known to browse these pages.......the scalescene freebie was made before your excellent tutorial......the bull nose corners are all my own work I am afraid




The cooperage is a Metcalfe Sandhouse and the timber for the barrel staves is stored in a Wills Kit which I thoght too small for a Timber Merchant but ok here

The shot below shows the coal dump complete with rusty corrugated iron as per Wheeltappers suggestion.....thank you Richard 

The 14 xx in the background is taking the autotrain from Cynwyd.............the 97xx is shunting the brewery yard.......and I almost have sorted out the RR & Co schedules! 




 



At the left end of the set up there is a gate for the brewery siding and a road level crossing and eventually when I start on the main line the road will be landscaped underneath







I have now fitted the edge trim 



And this shot............despite the drunken Lowry...........fits the brewery into the overall layout context with the Branch Engine Shed on the right




It may seem a little childish but it was extraordinarily satisfying to nail in the last bit of trim and know that half the layout is now completed.:lol:

The next segment to work on is the canal scene at the other end of the room. I have ordered some lock gates and other bits and pieces from Langley and hopefully will start work in the next month...............meantime on Wednesday I have to set out on our annual pilgrimage to Seattle............some 200 miles south of Vancouver............there and back...a leisurely two week trip in a sail boat..............so forgive me if I am a little slow in replying

Regards from ,happily, a warm and sunny Vancouver

 

  

 

 


 

Last edited on Mon Apr 19th, 2010 06:00 am by John Dew

Sol
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John, bookmarked this post so I can flog/steal/borrow ideas from your brewery for mine.

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Excellent work, John, and loads of good photos too.
I think your grime has worked very well.

Mike

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"It may seem a little childish"

Certainly not.
Lots to like, John.

Hope you do lots of splicing on your trip.

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The whole scene works very well and the detail gives that cluttered industrial look. Very nice. I like the way you have used card to provide the hard standing in the area of the brewry complex, that works well too. How did you eventually decide to conceal that point motor? It would be good to see the final version.

Bob(K)

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ddolfelin wrote: Hope you do lots of splicing on your trip.

That would be the main brace would it DD :cheers

John,

Nice work with trying to change Metcalfe's "unlikely" blue, gives me courage to try and change the warehouse I have in N.

I like the brewery clutter too. Coming along nicely.

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I'd love a sailing trip like that...........................:sad:


D

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Thanks for all the comments guys much appreciated

Novice wrote:
The whole scene works very well and the detail gives that cluttered industrial look. Very nice. I like the way you have used card to provide the hard standing in the area of the brewry complex, that works well too. How did you eventually decide to conceal that point motor? It would be good to see the final version.

Bob(K)


The point motor is concealed by the water tower......you can just see it through the windows on one of the shots.........almost looks like machinery!

I dont know about splicing but I will pack a modelling tool box and try and fix kaydees and weather the goods stock for the brewery

Regards  

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John Dew wrote:

The point motor is concealed by the water tower......you can just see it through the windows on one of the shots.........almost looks like machinery!





Oh yes, very effective. I did wonder how you would do it and it does look the part too.

Bob(K)

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It's been said already John but I'll add my "wow" as well.

It really does look goood and the different photos make it almost like being there - almost, but not quite !!

I think you've created an excellent "industrial scene" (and even with the odd bit of your humour creeping into the text :cheers).  It all looks both functional and busy, "planned" yet suitably "chaotic".  Just what was required and with enough in there to keep at least me, busy examining each shot for quite some time. :pathead:pathead

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Thanks for the nice comments Peter, sorry I took so long to acknowledge them!

Its now almost 8 weeks since I last posted. I havent been totaly idle since finishing the brewery. Sailing and Gardening apart I kaydeed and weathered a couple of rakes of wagons for the brewery and with somewhat limited success chipped a Dean Goods and two split chassis 57xx. I also spent rather too much time playing with RR&Co

But if the truth be told I have been procrastinating. Finding any excuse to put off addressing ......the gap




 and looking towards the work bench and brewery

 




Clearly a critical section.............until bridged I cant develop the long left hand terminus (unbuilt) section with the completed storage yards and branch on the right hand side.

I contemplated a lift off section but took fright at all the potential connection problems......so I came up with a classic Canadian compromise.........I have installed metal dowels and sockets but for as long as I am agile enough its a duck under.......at least it keeps me fit!




The left hand green tapes represent a road and the long section on the right a canal with a basin and at the end a lock

I have bought a Langley Lock kit and I am still trying to get my head around the dimensions......I had no idea narrow boats were so long......sure eats up the space

Apart from the challenge of a canal (which I have never built before) I have to create a number of bridges at 36" radius connecting the fixed tracks on the left hand side so I have set up some mock ups..................for once this thread is current the following shots were all taken this morning

Bridge#1
   

This connects the Cynwyd branch with the two storage sidings that I set up when building the brewery......when complete I will have a low level roundy roundy.

Bridge #2




This is a Kibri kit that was a lot of fun to build.......never yet had trains running on it. It leads the mine exchange siding to a yet to be built storage siding that will become a low to high level roundy roundy. The plan is to run comparitively long (7'-8' ) 20+ wagon rakes of empty and full coal wagons............20 is nothing compared with the prototype but hopefully I can create the desired effect. The substantial bridge will justify me using my 2 56xxs  

Bridge 3

This is the viaduct another one of the key features on my must do list. This will connect the two road  mainline exit from the storage yard with the terminus......giving me a third circuit this time at high level

I am struggling with the geometry of a curved viaduct......could be a problem

It also looks as though there may be an issue with the mine exchange running through the right hand viaduct pier but I think I will be able create a believable tunnel entrance.

As you must have gathered my broad brush approach is not totally compatible with detailed planning......if only! 

I am going to use a Langley Kit for the viaduct




They dont have quite the definition of a Wills Kit but......big plus.....they are quite flexible

 

Bridge #4




Unlike the first three bridges there is no track laid on the right hand side...............the plan is to have a coal mine starting where the tape measure is and the siding (maybe two) over the bridge will connect with the coal roundy roundy by a kick back siding

Right now its a mock up so I can sort out the canal line

 

To finish here are a couple of shots which show how the main line will sweep (I hope) over the viaduct






 

And finally an overall shot on an untidy railway room............situation normal I am afraid!


 




 


 

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It looks like a great place to hide, John.  All very interesting!

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That duck under will keep you out of harms way for some time John.

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That is a very interesting setup, the langley kit looks good will have to have a looksee
as I am doing a curved viaduct too.
hope the back holds up to the duck-under..

:thumbs:lol::lol::lol::cool:

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You are right about the length of narrow boats, John - especially any 'commercial' types.
Even in 'N' I had to plan for a canal basin. The curvature of the necessary bends on my canal won't hold up to slide rule scrutiny.

However, the narrow boats are easier to accommodate than scale sea going boats which are enormous.

Very interesting work - I look forward to updates but it's obviously going to be really something when finished.

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Really looking forward to seeing this develop.Once its finished it should be brilliant to operate.Some lovely modelling already gone into this layout already.Its one of my favourites,John!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Sol wrote: That duck under will keep you out of harms way for some time John.
Not totally Sol I keep meeting the dog  there and he is getting rather confused  :mutley

Thanks for the encouraging comments guys. Here is an update on this weeks progress

One of the problems I had was determining where to start. I plan to create the canal by laying 1/4" ply on the baseboard to delineate the canal banks. Once this is done I am going to paint the revealed baseboard muddy brown and then apply n coats of varnish. However I dont fancy trying to insert the varnish brush that many times underneath 4 bridges but I cant layout the canal until the bridges are completed and I know precisely where the openings will be.

So I have decided to make the bridges as separate sub assemblies laid on the, as yet, uncut 1/4" ply.

Bridge 1 and 4 are already done and just need the openings for roads and the canal to be identified and additional supports inserted

Bridge 3 the viaduct is the most critical structure because of the curve and the mine exchange line running under it

It was quite easy to cut out the formings and.....bonus day......not only do the pillars fit snugly around the 3/4" ply supports but I only needed to trim the bottom foundation course before mating it with the extension pieces




I believe I can mask the gaps with white glue and the raw edges will be sanded down. There is a moulding to cover the inside wall at track level. I have sheets similar to the viaduct stone work to clad the interior..........I am still debating whether I can get away with vertical faces and not worry about the arch itself

 



I am quite pleased with the curved effect. It was relatively easy to glue on. I just did 1 support at a time and gave it 24 hours to bond before going on to the next one

Geometry not being my strong suit it took a number of dry runs to convince me that setting each support at right angles wouldnt work. I finally remembered from my army days that when wheeling the outside file steps longer than the inside file:oops: The shot above shows how I have off set the outside support from the black covered baseboard......whereas on the other side, below, there is a much narrower gap




This shot gives a better illustration of the skewing effect..........its a good job the canal wasnt cut out because it is clear now it will have to somewhat curved.....which is no bad thing from an overall design aspect




The big problem I have is the impact the curve has on the straight run of the girder bridge







As you can see the line is going to enter arch 1 but, particularly when its starts to curve again (which it must)......it will have to exit on the other side through arch 2

I guess a compromise is to have a wider opening but I think that may spoil the effect....... right now I am thinking that instead of a solid support I will cut out an arch which the line can curve through ......anyway tomorrow I will cut out a 36" radius track bed to get from the end of the bridge to the edge of the duck under and then do some cardboard mock ups

If you can follow this convoluted explanation.....comments/ advice appreciated

 

 

   

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Looking good.

Don't forget the finger as a tool when painting stonework!

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John

Cant you run the curve from the girder bridge a bit to the left first from the end of the girder bridge then at some point swing the curve back to the right?

Brian

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John, it seems you have moved the angle of the bridge in your mock-up, going back over your pics
it shows, try moving the bridge end to the right a little I think it will help.
it should then go through one arch only.???

:hmm:lol::lol::cool:

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henryparrot wrote: John

Cant you run the curve from the girder bridge a bit to the left first from the end of the girder bridge then at some point swing the curve back to the right?

Brian


Thanks Brian

I have tried that with short radius curves in an S shape but even that encroaches on the 10% of the room that is "common property"..........note the ironing board and freezer...........could be tricky :roll:

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owen69 wrote: John, it seems you have moved the angle of the bridge in your mock-up, going back over your pics
it shows, try moving the bridge end to the right a little I think it will help.
it should then go through one arch only.???



You are right........ the bridge is now hard against the left hand baseboard with the fixed track........it is also lined up more precisely with the fixed track.

I did this because it gave the "easiest approach"...........it was actually worse the other way. The skew effect of the supports is a lot more acute than I had appreciated. :hmm

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I dont know if this helps or not but the average width of a narrow canal on an open stretch is 30 feet of water plus the towpath which narrows down to about 8 feet of water width plus the width of the towpath where the canal passes under most bridges . Most working canal boats are 70  feet long and 7 feet in width. If you get those proportions right then it does look right on the model.

Different measurements apply to other types of canals but generally boat dimensions are common to all of them.

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Many thanks Richard

I was hoping to get some advice from you 

That mean where the canal isnt going under a bridge its 30' wide.......I hadnt appreciated that although with all the bridges and the lock I guess I can stick at 8' and then go to 24/30' for the basin......provided the basin is at least 80' long?

How wide is the average Tow Path?

Kind Regards

 

 

 

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How wide is a towpath ?  Thats a bit like saying "How long is a piece of string" :roll:

However the best way of deciding it is to remember the path was originally built for the horse to pull the boat so about the width of a horse would be about right  - say 3 feet and most bridges have a path under them of about this width . A point worth remembering is that in the interest of security the towpath would not usually go into a basin but would stop at the boundary wall or a security gate . The basins would often have a bridge at this point and widen out  from the bridge hole in a triangular shape to 70 feet in width as its possible to turn a boat in its own length . Not sure where you wish to put the lock but it would be the case that the canal would drop down to the terminus basin as if it were the other way round there would be water supply problems as the lock would drain the basin each time it was used. A lock by the way is usually 72 feet in length and 7ft 6" width.

Hope this helps.


PS. The 30ft width figure is a minimum on open canal stretches as it allows for boats to be moored on each bank and two boats able to pass each other between them. However on an approach to a basin or where there were a number of bridges and locks together it was not unknown to have stretches of canal  only one boats width although it wasa nuisance from an operating point of view and would often lead to punch ups between crews as arguements over right of way got heated.:lol:

Last edited on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 08:30 pm by Wheeltapper

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Thats really helpful thank you so much.......I hadnt thought about turning:hmm

Nor had I thought about the effect of a lock on the waterlevel of the basin

The Langley kit comes with one upstream gate and 2 x 1/2 downstream gates............I had thought that rather than build a complete lock I would do 2 halves at each edge of the baseboard ie high level//basin level//low level that would create a more interesting scenario but I now realise somewhat unrealistic....................could I create a pumphouse in the basin to keep the basin level ok?

 

 

 

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Yes a pump house or feeder stream emerging from under a building would work.

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I have had a thought which would mean the lock didnt have to change level. Where two canal companies property joined it was often the case that a Gauging Lock was installed . Gauging calculated the weight a boat was carrying to enable the tonnage tolls to be worked out. When a boat first went into service is had different weights added and the freeboard measured . Each boat was numbered and a record of these measurements were kept at the toll stations so every time a boat was loaded the company knew what to charge which was done by placing a measuring stick against the side of the boat and measuring the freeboard from the waterline to the gunwales . A Gauging lock looks just like a normal lock and were also sometimes used as Stop locks to protect each companies jealously guarded water supply. You would need to place a toll office next to the lock if you adopted this raison daitre.

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Wheeltapper wrote: Yes a pump house or feeder stream emerging from under a building would work.

Perfect

I think my basin may have to become a wharf......through traffic only:cry: I dont think I can accommodate 70' + x 70'+......anyway I will keep working on it

Many thanks for all the input Richard :cheers

 

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A wharf may be a lot easier and look right with perhaps a waterside warehouse with over water canopy and you could represent two locks with your lock kit , one at each end of the baseboard ( bottom gates of one  and top gate of the other),

Its a general belief that  model canals dont take up much room - a quickly dispelled myth when you try to lay them out on paper in a prototypically correct manner :roll:

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I have resolved (if not solved) the problem of the girder bridge and the viaduct arches. The last two arches have been added which involved cutting one arch away and then butting the trimmed section to the existing pillar

This shot shows the rail bed exiting the bridge on a 36" radius curve and entering the penultimate arch



And this shot shows it exiting through the last arch. You can really see the skew effect here



The cut away pillars will be clad with stone sheet and the two end pillars will have wooden supports added and be similarly clad. The bridge support will be clad as well

The viaduct itself will be embedded into a rock face and the railway will enter through a tunnel portal.......the raised track bed will be concealed by an embankment or a rocky causeway...........I guess I will have to determine which came first.....the viaduct or the Girder Bridge......I suspect the former is the more plausible. 

Its a little unrealistic but once dollied up will, I think, look ok.............particularly as the skew has forced me to put the canal at an angle and I now have room for this Warehouse

 

 


 

This is another Langley kit which I have had for some time. I used it as a back scene on my last layout but there is a lot of cool detail  which will look better close up as a warehouse for the canal wharf  




 I guess I will have to invent some legend about a GWR wharf because I aint going to repaint it!

You can see it will effectively mask the exit from the bridge.

 Of course there is a snag :hmm




It is ultral low relief so I will have to get involved in some pretty major scratch building

 

Now the bridges are sorted I can mark out the canal . For clarity I have temporarily moved the bridges




The first scrappy bit of green tape shows the right edge of the main road which enters from under a bridge on the main branch baseboard,skirts the triangular girder bridge support and exits through the  the first viaduct arch.

The third arch will have a road servicing the Warehouse

The canal enters from the bottom via a downstream or lower lock into the wharf (diagonal tape) which thanks to Richard (Wheeltapper) is a scale 30' wide by 80' long.......at the end of the wharf it narrows to 8' to go through the second arch with a tow path on either side as it approaches the upstream or upper lock




Is this typically how the canal would narrow down?

The next shot shows the lock and how I am going to build up the surrounding ground around the lock with 3/4" ply

I believe I have got the lock gates wrong .......this is a top gate and should be in the lower lock

 




And these are bottom gates and should be on the upper lock




I have deliberately squared off the wharf at this end to maximise the loading area

Comments, queries and advice much appreciated before I start cutting the canal outline from the 1/4" ply overlay (the lower lock will actually be cut into the duck under itself). Hopefully I will get a seal of approval from Richard

Kind Regards

 

 


 

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Coming along nicely, JD.  I particularly like the warehouse.  A few OHS issues there!!    :mutley

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Well done with the viaduct problem John you have resolved that well

That Ware house is a lovely kit which suits prefectly to area you want to use it so well worth spending the extra time scratchbuilding the back of it.

I can see this part of the layout is going to look really interesting

Brian

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John that viaduct and warehouse look wonderful.  Langley kits you say.  The stonework is really good. :thumbs:thumbs

I suspect you're right that the girder bridge would follow the viaduct in age but I do like the way you've intertwined them to get around an awkward corner.  When it's all landscaped, it will look great.

Richard's the expert, but I'm pretty sure you're also right about the lock gates although in many (if not the majority of) cases, particularly on "broad" canals, there were twin gates both top and bottom of the lock.  The single gates tended to be used mainly on the narrow canals - it was all to do with strength in that the double gates form a stronger barrier than the single one.

Now - watch Richard tell me I'm talking out of the top of my hat (maybe Mr Brunel's hat :roll:) !!!  :hmm:hmm:hmm:mutley

Right or wrong, it's going to look fantastic.

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i agree with all that`s been said,a good solution to an awkward problem.

:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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John,
I really like the Langley kit, but you have stated that you will not be re-painting it. That scratchbuild will be very interesting, adding on to it and not re-painting it? Not sure I could do that. Maybe I can learn something here. :lol:

Wayne

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 Coming along nicely, JD.  I particularly like the warehouse.  A few OHS issues there!!    :mutley
Thanks Max..........OHS is oz for what in Canadian?:lol:

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Thank you all for approving the work around......its really encouraging to get that sort of feed back......very re assuring 

I am afraid I havent mastered multi quotes......could anyone give me a hint? 

Meantime

Petermac wrote:
John that viaduct and warehouse look wonderful.  Langley kits you say.  The stonework is really good. :thumbs:thumbs


 

The Warehouse is a plastic extrusion or forming just like the viaduct and retaining walls. Its quite thin and I typically back any free standing structures with card or ply.

The kit comes with plastic loading doors but they sell a number of white metal add ons like the window corbels (?), drainpipes and loading doors which look a lot better than the plastic version......the figures are all from Langley along with a gibbet crane which I have temporarily mislaid:roll:

Wayne

The paint comment was primarily in relation to the GWR Light and Dark Stone paint scheme and my sneaking feeling it shouldnt really be a GWR Warehouse on a canal but I have one or two cunning plans to deal with that

I hadnt thought about the actual stone work too much but the actual building is so thin I will attempt to build a completely new side wall...........I may try and squeeze in a bit of extra frontage to look like a a later extension and that will justify the different stonework both in colour and texture............the roof will be an issue though

I am going to have to discipline myself not to start this right away otherwise I will never get track to the other side

Regards to all

 

 

 

 

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John Dew wrote:  Coming along nicely, JD.  I particularly like the warehouse.  A few OHS issues there!!    :mutley
Thanks Max..........OHS is oz for what in Canadian?:lol:


OHS - I think Max means

Occupational Health & Safety

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Oh Elf n safety...............didnt have that in 1947!

Its called workers comp here

 

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John Dew wrote: Oh Elf n safety...............didnt have that in 1947!

Its called workers comp here

 

In Uk we called it "elf n softy" - far more efficient at putting people out of work than any recession !!!

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Petermac wrote:
Richard's the expert, but I'm pretty sure you're also right about the lock gates although in many (if not the majority of) cases, particularly on "broad" canals, there were twin gates both top and bottom of the lock.  The single gates tended to be used mainly on the narrow canals - it was all to do with strength in that the double gates form a stronger barrier than the single one.

Now - watch Richard tell me I'm talking out of the top of my hat (maybe Mr Brunel's hat :roll:) !!!  :hmm:hmm:hmm:mutley

Right or wrong, it's going to look fantastic.


Langley offer a double gate set but I opted for the single lock kit because even then I was worried about space......so the locks and approaches will be 8' wide and only the wharf will accommodate more than one narrow boat

I am just waiting for Richard to give the ok and then I will start cutting out

Having read Waynes Lake thread I have decided to use resin for the water rather than varnish and I have just ordered some  Magic Water (I hope it is magic)

Now that I am pouring rather than painting I think I will have to install the lock gates, side walls and canal embankments first

A couple of questions

[1] Is 2' +- about the right depth from the tow path to the water level

[2] What type of brick/stone was used for the embankments......can I use the same sort of stones that are on the viaduct or will they be too big..............I will have grass in places but the wharf and lock entries will have to more solid

I thought the forum was strangely quiet and then realised everyone (or almost everyone) is getting set up for the England Game..................because of the tides I have to get my real boat back into the water just as they kick off........bummer:twisted:

I am taping it so I will have to spend the next few hours not listening to the radio.....even in Canada

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

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John,
If you get your Magic Water before me, good luck! I hope it works for the both of us. I'm glad I was able to save you the problems I've run into.

I'll be ordering my Magic Water shortly.

Wayne

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I used Magic Water, John.  It's terrific.  However for the ripples on the surface, I used Woodlands Scenics Water Effects.  :thumbs

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Here are a couple of pics - excuse the photography!






John Dew
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Wayne Williams wrote: John,
If you get your Magic Water before me, good luck! I hope it works for the both of us. I'm glad I was able to save you the problems I've run into.

I'll be ordering my Magic Water shortly.

Wayne


Well it has a shorter distance to travel......I got a personal email from Dave Williams as well as the paypal stuff...............I will let you know how I get on

Learning from you I am going to do some test pours to understand how it flows and to get the colour right

 

 

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Hi John

Sorry if I have held you up by not replying quicker but have been having internet connection problems for the last 48 hours ( I think there is a game of footy on somewhere which may account for it :roll:)

Right  to your questions .

Gates - Yes as a general rule the top gate of a narrow lock is single  and the bottom ones are a pair . Peter is quite right about broad canals having paired gates top and bottom which is due to the width of the lock would mean a single gate would be too heavy to use .There are exceptions on the narrow canals where there is a single gate at both ends and this is usually due to  local engineering or access problems.

Height of towpath -  usually less than 2 feet , may only be a couple of inches but again its a local conditions thing and depends a lot on the topography in the immediate area .

Materials  - Whilst earth and grass banks would be normal for country stretches brick, stone, concrete or even timber would be used in built up areas or anywhere where the boats would likely have regular contact with the edge such as approaches to locks , tight bends , narrow stretches etc . As the canals were local affairs when built and there was no real long distance transport system in existance the materials would come from the immediate area , so whatever your predominant construction material is for the town then its likely to be the same for the canal.

Basin Layout - Gets an AAAAA++++++:patheadShould look great . I do like those Langley warehouses . They remind me of the warehouses in Gloucester Docks . Another good building for those that dont want to go the kit route is the recently intrduced Oakhill Brewery building (Bachmann ?)

Hope that covers everything but shout if there is anything else I can help with. 

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Thank you so much Richard for replying.......and again my apologies for bugging you............but now with your seal of approval I will get cracking with the Jig Saw

I am not sure if I want to talk about footy after yesterdays game.....I taped it.....kept the tv and radio off and avoided this forum in case anyone leaked the result......what a waste of time........I dont think HMV in Scotland need to worry about their "Anyone but England" posters..............sorry rant over and probably in wrong thread :cry:

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Just a thought but if you dont want to rebuild the warehouse then why not push it further back from the waters edge  and against the backscene if there is one there and widen the basin instead ?  Or is the back of the warehouse in public view which precludes that from happening ?

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Thanks Richard.......I wish I could

I can push it back a bit but I assumed it should be pretty close to the waters edge

In any event I dont think I can leave it without increasing the side depth......its more or less in the centre of a 10' run where the 18' left hand side connects with the 18' right hand side via the duck under   

 The green tape at the right marks not just the end of the duck under but the start of a 4' deep baseboard 




This original shot probably shows the depth more clearly




PS Thanks for the tip about the tow path coverings.......that was on my list of questions!

Kind Regards 

 

 

 

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There is probably a prototype for every possible position of a warehouse in relation to the water but common  ones were the warehouse would actually form one edge of the basin so the hoists would be directly over the boat or there was a large open space between the water and the building which would be used for extra storage or as a public wharf facility.

Whatever suits you best.

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I am managing to keep to my resolution of filing a weekly report. While I like the idea of keeping a stage by stage record of Granby's development, I am not sure that these any of these shots are particularly riveting.......for sure they are not going to get nominated for anything!

However I am learning a great deal from Richard...........so with his green light I went ahead and cut out the canal outline



 

In the foreground you can see I have cut out the bottom lock below the base board and set up the supports for the First Bridge to allow for towpaths................if you are wondering about the first notch/recess........its a mistake.........the second recess behind the gate is  in the correct place. Its where the gate is located in the open position...........the wrong notch will be hidden by the tow path and revetments.

Here is a close up




Some fine carpentry here! The lock walls will be covered with Slaters plasticard and I will build a stopper ledge in front of the gate to prevent the gate being opened the wrong way by the upstream pressure

And from the other side you get a good view of the tow path and correct recess............all the evidence of rubbish cutting will be concealed by plasticard!




This shot of the upper lock gives an indication of the change in levels. Since taking the photo I have realised the gates are the wrong way round........in this position the upstream pressure would force the gates open!!!




These pieces of foam board are not the extent of the upper level but are are installed so I can clad out the interior before pouring the Magic Water 

But they have exposed a couple of problems............at the very edge of the baseboard is Bridge 4 connecting the coal mine which I have now decided to double so I can store both Coal Trains: 




So I have some head room problems............(hence the double decker bus lying around)............I think the canal is ok..... its about 8'........ but I cant get the roads to that level so I will just have to suggest the start of a slope running between higher ground on either side




This is the main problem (ignore the uneven tow path......the left bank became unaligned......but it is still 3' Richard..... honest !anyway I can shim it out a bit)

My problem......how do I get the tow horses from one level to another?

I guess there were not too many in use in 1947 but at the very least there should be some vestige of the ramp (s) and I suspect they would have remained in place any way.............certainly in my only experience of canals (Canal du Nivernais a far cry from North Wales) there were ramps

My question..............can I get away with just one ramp ideally on the left bank and what is an acceptable gradient in visual terms (even if unrealistic prototypically).............the increase in height is 1" could I get away with 1:10???

Finallly I have made a start at painting the canal base. Having learned from Wayne I have a test bed as well but I need to get the edges painted because I want to install the revetments and lock gates before pouring the water









This is just the first coat and I have found it difficult to reproduce............it looks brighter here than in situ but my first reaction is that it is a bit too reddy brown..................closer too the Ganges in flood than the Leeds and Liverpool canal

Comments very much appreciated

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last edited on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 05:46 am by John Dew

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John this is very clever and fascinating! The stone arches come up nicely in the closer views.
I looked at some online images of the canal - some really lovely scenery along there.

Mike

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John

Thats coming along very nicely . Dont worry about headroom for the canal bridge - there are many bridges and tunnels where the headroom is only a couple of inches above the boat and even some where you have to add weight to the boat to lower its waterline ( one of our local ones its a regular occurrance to hijack half a dozen towpath walkers to sit on the boat to get it through the bridge :roll: ) and others where if there is a lock handy water has to be run out the pound to lower the boats airdraft.

As to horses on the canal - they were around in considerable numbers in 1947 and actually some in commercial use up to the early 1960's . Rare to see them these days but the Horse Boating Society endeavours to keep their working practices alive as well as the special type of narrowboats that were used by them.

There are some very steep ramps around especially where a towpath comes under a bridge with a lock abutting the bridge and in these cases raised  brick strips are put across the towpath edge to edge every couple of feet to give the horse grip. Where a bridge is too low for a horse to get under sometimes a trench would be cut in the towpath but more usually there would be a ramp up each side of the bridge and the horse would be detached and walked over the top . Where this happened a lot and the canal towpath needed to change sides certain canal companies installed what was known as a Turnover bridge which allowed the horse to cross and go under the bridge without detaching . The construction of that type of bridge in model form would be a challenge.

Hope this helps.


Edited to mention the average drop level of a narrow lock is 8 feet  - as usual lots of exceptions from 6" drop to 14 feet where two locks have been rebuilt as one.
Also the ramp up doesnt have to end at the end of the lock but can end anywhere along the length of the lock to ease the gradient.

Last edited on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 10:32 am by Wheeltapper

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John,
       I shouldn't worry too much about the colour of your canal.Our area in the Northwest of England is surrounded by canals,which seem to vary from muddy brown to pea green.
       Your colour looks perfectly natural to my eye!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

PS. If you need/want photo reference for a turnaround bridge,there is one not a million miles away from me!

Last edited on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 07:31 am by georgejacksongenius

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georgejacksongenius wrote:
PS. If you need/want photo reference for a turnaround bridge,there is one not a million miles away from me!

Would that be Marple John ?

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Thanks guys, and particularly you Richard, for the quick replies

Mike..... the stonework isnt finished at all (its a mix of previous painting and the first coat on the new bits) but even the first coat reveals the detail. I have been struggling with when to start properly painting the viaduct because I need to clad the interior first and I didnt want to do that until I had sorted the ramps 

John.....thanks for the offer but with 4 bridges already and Richard's comment about a challenge to build I think it will have to be "off stage" maybe in the lower lock area  

Richard.....I knew I had written that bit about headroom badly.....its not the canal I am worried about because I well remember ducking under the bridges in France.....rather it is the road bridges on either side of the lock which because the approach cant climb very much means that the lock will look a bit like a projecting penninsula.................but now you have helped with the ramps I think I can see a work around

Thank you so much for the tips about the ramps that you have given me. It is all much clearer now. I really like the idea of raised edges to help with the grip...........similar to the battens on GWR Halt ramps

 


Edited to mention the average drop level of a narrow lock is 8 feet  - as usual lots of exceptions from 6" drop to 14 feet where two locks have been rebuilt as one.
Also the ramp up doesnt have to end at the end of the lock but can end anywhere along the length of the lock to ease the gradient.


You dont miss anything do you? Both locks are about 12'. I can and will raise the bottom of the lower lock so that the drop is reduced a bit.....its very simple. As far as the top lock is concerned the drop was driven by the lock gates......but on reflection they should be cut down because the bottom shouldnt show downstream.....which means I can reduce both the lock height and drop a little as well

I will let you know how I get on

Kind Regards

 

 

 

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John Dew wrote:


You dont miss anything do you? Both locks are about 12'. I can and will raise the bottom of the lower lock so that the drop is reduced a bit.....its very simple. As far as the top lock is concerned the drop was driven by the lock gates......but on reflection they should be cut down because the bottom shouldnt show downstream.....which means I can reduce both the lock height and drop a little as well



 

John

 The average depth of water in a canal is between three and four feet so you are not going to see the bottom three or four feet of the  downstream lock gate as that touches the bottom of the canal and if you can see it then any boat in the lock will not be able to get out as there wont be enough water to float it . Not that I am saying this has ever happened to me of course :roll:


Actually looking at the picture of the lock gate I dont think the manufacturer has got the paddle holes in the gates in the right place  if they are portraying a full gate as when you empty the lock the hole usually ends up at water level with 3ft or more of gate still under water . 

 

 




Last edited on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 05:29 pm by Wheeltapper

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Thanks Richard I was just going to reply to your private email and Italy/Slovenia intervened so maybe I can do it here

I was going to ask you about the paddle holes

The bottom gate is set up so that the lock gate beam is more or less the correct height (4'?)

 

I see what you mean about the paddle holesI think I have set up the bottom gate correctly so on this shot the paddle holes should be higher or there should be more gate.


In view of your comments I will raise the water level in the lock with some plasticard

As far as the upper lock gates are concerned:



The paddle holes should just be appearing above the water line? So rather than attept to cut into the canal base I propose cutting the gates down and strip off 1 or 2 layers of foam board

Would that work?

The photos you sent were superb they really helped me get a sense of what I have to do with the upper lock not least of which is make sure the stonework isnt too neat and tidy.....perfect for my style of modelling. I see I have to add steps to the ramp...no problem and I liked the way the lock curved and the ridges for the guy pushing the beam?

Incidentally on the photo there is a handle inserted in the beam which the Langley kit doesnt have.....its easy enough to model but does this mean the beam itself should be lower  

Because I believe I need to install/embed the gates before I pour the water I am going to have to assemble and paint the kits first.

Langley talk about the gate timbers being brown and the beam and metalwork black with some white. In France I recall the metalwork was often a sort of grungy green......would that be wrong in North Wales? I am going to do my usual routine and paint the sub assemblies pristine assemble them and then weather them as a whole

Richard with all the other stuff you have going on I cannot thank you enough for the the time and trouble you are taking on this project......you have no idea how helpful your replies are to me

Kind Regards

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North Wales 1947 - with my canal history hat on most of the canals in the area at that time were owned by the Shropshire Union Canal & Railway Company . If memory serves me right they were very short of cash and bought a job lot of battleship grey paint ex MOD to paint their lock gates with beam ends being painted white . Alternatively you could stick with the black & white which is what most people associate with canals .

Height of lock beam - easiest way of describing it is to say if you stand with your back to the beam at the furthest point from the gate you should be able to push the gate open with your backside by leaning against the beam which is the safest way to operate them.

Handles on gate beams - I think they came in later as did lock access ladders - Early Elfin Safety.

Paddle hole positions - dont think the top gate one is far out and the easiest answer is to reduce the gate height on the bottom gates . But hold off for now and I will try to  let you have a picture that will explain it better . Might take a little while as I am getting rather tired and may have to go off for a kip before continuing.

 

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Thanks Richard

Absolutely no rush........just take your time......and take it easy :thumbs

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Wheeltapper wrote: georgejacksongenius wrote:
PS. If you need/want photo reference for a turnaround bridge,there is one not a million miles away from me!

Would that be Marple John ?
No Richard,we've got one much closer than that,near St Georges Church in Hyde.on the Ashton to Romiley stretch....although Marple locks aren't a million miles away.(I've often fished there in the past)
   Do you know our area then???

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Yes know it quite well - worked round there for a while and have done a lot of boating on the Peak Forest and Macclesfield Canals Have been to the Romilly model railway show at Marple Methodist Hall a couple of times which was a nice small event .

There used to be a good model shop just along the road from the hall .

I  think I know the bridge you mean and if memory serves me right its not that far from where The Horse Boating Society have their HQ at Ashton Junction .

Did quite a bit of fishing at Goyt Valley Park Lakes when i was last there about 15 years ago.

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Small world Richard.You're right,the Romiley Show is always a nice little show.Our RJR and Blackcloud were there last year with their Cheshire Modellers modules!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Well what with Gardening and Sailing the weekly report kind of went out of the window as Richard (Wheeltapper) has delicately reminded me.

Progress has also been sporadic but as we are about to go away on the boat again I thought I had better do an update although nothing really startling has happened

I have clad in the pillars and under the arches of the viaduct




As always the camera is cruel and the joins stand out quite sharply but this is just the mortar undercoat and I think I will be able to conceal them a bit.....fortunately there are other bridges in front.




The painting of the viaduct is quite laborious but you can see some of the progress particularly on the righthand arch. Normally I take this boring stuff away in the summer and do a bit at a time on the boat but I cant find a box big enough to carry the structure.....so its going to take a while

I have clad the supports for the girder bridge and also the bridge for the coal mine at the rear. I have removed the viaduct for a clearer view




The arches mirror the three arches on the viaduct. The left hand one is the main road, the righthand a subsidiary road  from the warehouse and the centre the canal with the upstream lock under. I have ripped out the foamcore I built for the lock. I wasnt happy with it and Richard has sent me some photos which are really useful so I am starting again here. The Wills varigirder bridge has to be weathered and secured and doesnt bear close scrutiny from a civil engineer!

I have been a bit worried about masking the 4" drop between the main baseboard and the canal section but I think I have,at least, solved the bit between the viaduct and the girder bridge


  

 This is a Wills Arches kit from a previous layout and with a bit of fiddling should make a little garage scene just off the main Road




Here is the Girder bridge on its supports.

On the right hand side I have started laying Wills granite setts which will be the quayside for what I am now calling Richard's Wharf........at least I can acknowledge his contribuition to this project that way

I have started putting in the revetments or canal edges using Slaters sheets




These are a little big .......there should be 2 courses I think, but I have to add 1/8" of water so only 1/8" will show. The Wills sheets are a lttle too thick as well but I didnt like the look of the Slaters cobblestones

On the other side I am just using the narrow strips from the Wills Sheets because the plan is to have a cinder tow path




 These strips are from the old layout and will be repainted and grass and weeds added. Apart from cleaning the canal bed I need to apply a few more coats of paint before pouring the water

This is the downstream lock which has been raised as Richard suggested.




I added a plasticard base which will retain the water better. There is a ledge to retain the lock gate which has been cut down so that the paddle gate is correctly positioned. I didnt allow for the sidewall thickness so I am filing the gate down a bit to eliminate the bow.

 With a slight change of architecture, in theory it will finish up like this!




 With the aid of this




I am away for about a month now so apart from painting walls not too much will get done but I should be able to access the internet occasionally

Regards from a hot and sunny Vancouver

 

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Lots of good work there, John.

Happy holidays.

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"Bon voyage" John if you get this before you go.

I love both your steel bridges - the weathering is excellent - what make is the girder bridge ?  It looks incredibly well detailed.

Oh - nearly forgot - what make are the people in that last shot ? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Petermac wrote: "Bon voyage" John if you get this before you go.

I love both your steel bridges - the weathering is excellent - what make is the girder bridge ?  It looks incredibly well detailed.

Oh - nearly forgot - what make are the people in that last shot ? :lol::lol::lol::lol:


Thanks Peter

I think it was Kibril or similar............it is more detailed than the Peco, Atlas and ex Airfix versions but it was both fun and easy to build.

French (I think) Canal du Nivernais 2008 

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Thats great progress John - the different angles and height variations made by the bridges and retaining walls makes this a very interesting area to look at .

I dont know whether you realised that the way you have done the canal edges is exactly (and I mean exactly) the way the Shropshire Union Canal Company built their edges to protect the banks. I dont think we have mentioned it before .

Have a great time sailing and I promise not to start nagging as soon as you get back :eek: - I am honoured you have named the wharf after me and I am so glad you have found my input usefull.

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I dont know whether you realised that the way you have done the canal edges is exactly (and I mean exactly) the way the Shropshire Union Canal Company built their edges to protect the banks. I dont think we have mentioned it before .


 

Thanks Richard

Thats a real bonus......you mentioned the height and a variety of materials but not this specifically......they are actually Slaters Flagstones. I attempted to cut them in half to create 2 courses but the cuts were too difficult and there were gaps etc.
I am honoured you have named the wharf after me and I am so glad you have found my input usefull.
My pleasure :lol:. Your input has been more than useful....it has been invaluable. And Richard has a sort of Welsh sound to it......eventually you will have a Halt on the branch in the Foreground as well

My Wife found a way to pack the viaduct so when I get back it will be completely painted along with sheets for some of the retaining walls 

I do hope you are making progress with the treatment...........talk to you soon.

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I have been back in town for a couple of weeks so when I havent been glued to the computor reading about the Exhibition I have made a little progress...........I think little is the key word......... having read Stubbys achievements with Frenzied Wharf I think this is more like laid back wharf:lol: 

We managed to get the viaduct on to the boat and I was able to complete the painting and install the inner retaining walls and track underlay



I just need to add some moss  to hide a couple of joins and a bit more weathering......moisture dripping down..... and its done


 



From the other side with the Girder Bridge removed




Yet another shot of the downstream lock (sorry this must be amazingly boring) where I am slowly.....very slowly.....laying the revetments and tow paths but at least you can now see the recess outside the lock for the gate when in the open position 




After reading Wheeltappers emails I ripped out the upstream lock sub structure and cut the lock gates down so that the upper lock is a more realistic height.

Here is my second attempt using black foam board (to be clad with Slaters sheeting). It now projects beyond the bridge which enables me to set up more realistic ramp lengths............you can see the spaces set up on either side of the bridge



This next shot shows the foamboard is cut in a curve (when clad it will be smooth). The curve follows the radius as the lock gate arms are pushed round to open the gates.............I got this idea from a superb photo Wheeltapper sent me.....thanks Richard

You can see the hash marks for the tow path.....the micro strip extends the tow path width.....otherwise the horses would need to be amphibians



 

And now for a change of pace........

 

The next shot should prove conclusively that Captain Vancouver was in a very bad mood indeed when he named this stretch of water.........................Desolation Sound!!!


 



We are back on the boat tomorrow for the last time this year...............

The 2 week cruise is optimistically called "The Last of the Summer Wine"    having heard the weather forecast I fear the wine is likely to be watered down........Wet and Windy I am afraid

 


 


 

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I suspect they were down to half rations of hardtack and quarter rations of rum when it was named. Great view!

Beautiful viaduct too.

Mike

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Towpaths often ended at tunnels and resumed the other side, John.
The boatmen used to lay on their backs and 'walk' the craft through the tunnel while the horse was led around by another route.
No need for aquatic horses (sea horses?).

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They would have to have pretty long legs to walk thru the viaduct!  The towpath was set out but I misaligned the viaduct so I was committed to the path but it was too skinny...........fortunately after the extension the canal measures just (only just) over 15' so there is room for two narrow boats 

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If you built that viaduct on your cruise John, the weather must have been extremely kind.  I'd have expected a slight list to starboard at least although I suspect you did one side then the other as you came about !!!!

It really does look superb - it's almost a shame to weather it but I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job.  My layout is planned to include at least some bridges and viaducts - I love them !!  Given the time I spent "planning" my module and the fact that I really must finish it, the actual layout may well be built from inside my coffin !!!!  At least there'll be plenty of wood but I don't think they use many screws. :roll::roll:

The shot of "Desolation Sound" looks wonderful - a real picture postcard shot.  It doesn't look as if you had much wind there either judging from the jib.  It's a nice looking boat - what is she and do you lift her out during winter ?

By the sound of the forecast, your "Last of the Summer Wine" weekend could end up becoming a "Last of the Summer Whine" weekend :lol::lol::lol:.  Hope you enjoy it. :cheers

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Petermac wrote: If you built that viaduct on your cruise John, the weather must have been extremely kind.  I'd have expected a slight list to starboard at least although I suspect you did one side then the other as you came about !!!!

It really does look superb - it's almost a shame to weather it but I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job.  My layout is planned to include at least some bridges and viaducts - I love them !!  Given the time I spent "planning" my module and the fact that I really must finish it, the actual layout may well be built from inside my coffin !!!!  At least there'll be plenty of wood but I don't think they use many screws. :roll::roll:


 

Thanks Peter......I have to be honest......I only painted the viaduct on the cruise and only when we were at the dock/anchor.....its the original Langley Kit glued (no screws  :lol:) to ply formers...........I would thoroughly recommend it having read Rick (Gwiwers) execellent thread in Penhayle Bay I think with the Langley kit being more flexible it is easier to get the Arch inlays set up properly...............takes forever to paint though

The shot of "Desolation Sound" looks wonderful - a real picture postcard shot.  It doesn't look as if you had much wind there either judging from the jib.  It's a nice looking boat - what is she and do you lift her out during winter ?

Its a fabulous cruising area......lots more vistas like this...........you are right about the breeze.....probably 7-8 knots on the beam......no rush.....glass of wine in hand .....perfect :cheers

Thanks for the kind remarks about Jess (named after the indomitable Scots mother of our ex Partner....she immigrated to Canada when she was 75 and lied about her age to get into the bowling club!)  Jess (the boat) is an eight year old 40' Jeanneau (made in France not that far from you?). We are very attached to her and go out as much as we can.....a true case of last of the Summer Wine because eventually old age will creep up (actually it seems faster than a creep!) and we will no longer be able to handle her.......but for now Carpe Diem :thumbs

 

 

Last edited on Fri Sep 10th, 2010 05:54 pm by John Dew

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Hello John,

                 Thank You very much for such an enthralling and interesting escapade. Some great posts on excellent modelling and and timely and precise advice from Richard on "Canal Building"(or is it Navigational Digging). The Viaduct Bridge assembly was very good, John, and very much appreciated, as my 1st project for my Lay-out will be an elongated S-shaped Viaduct in N Gauge 6/8ft in length of approx 30+ arches, which will span a valley including Canal and River. Any problems and I will "shout loudly" for you or Richard, so keep a "weather-ear" open, Cap'n. Once again, Many Thanks,

                                                                                 Kind Regards,

                                                                            Michael Thornberry.

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John Dew wrote:................................................................................................................................................................................Its a fabulous cruising area......lots more vistas like this...........you are right about the breeze.....probably 7-8 knots on the beam......no rush.....glass of wine in hand .....perfect :cheers
............................................................................................................

You've said it all John - what could be better - a zephyr like breeze, a lovely boat (as you said, based just north of La Rochelle about 3 or 4 hours drive north of us) and a glass of (no doubt) good Bordeaux in hand .....................mmmmm, I'm dreaming again  !!!

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Michael Thornberry wrote: .....................................................................my 1st project for my Lay-out will be an elongated S-shaped Viaduct in N Gauge 6/8ft in length of approx 30+ arches, which will span a valley including Canal and River......................................

I'm eagerly awaiting this one Michael............:shock::shock::shock:

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With the summer drawing to a close I am finally starting to make some tangible progress. Although having said that, I am afraid this is yet another string of photos of the canal. A health warning for readers.....if you are disturbed by more pictures of this unfinished project complete with paint smudges and nasty gaps......switch off now.

I have painted what I hope is the final base coat on the canal and lock beds. I have a test bed ready so next week I will do a trial pour with the Magic Water.

The canal revetments, towpaths and lock walls and quays(?) are paved and walled

The Langley Lock Gates have now been assembled and painted.......... 

These are the Top or Upstream Gates..........I think I have rather overdone the weathering and I still need to establish some evidence of green slime.

The woodwork is painted grey rather than black because my Honourary Canal Adviser Richard (Wheeltapper) advised me that the Shropshire Union Canal Co (who were taken over by the GWR) bought a load of Royal Navy Post WW1 surplus Battleship Grey..........this is actually LNER Freight Grey but it probably came from the same source

Hopefully Richard will see this post.........should I paint the very end of the gate bars white (like Langley) or leave it as is?




The above shot illustrates some of the frustration I have with this project. It was only after I had carefully cut down and weathered and fixed the paddles that I realised (as you will shortly see) that they are immersed in the canal......never to be seen again:twisted::twisted:

Here is the side that will be exposed




The grey bit between the gates is surplus epoxy and is semi deliberate......the plan is to touch it up with white paint to simulate water obeying gravity

I think the paddle ratchets are a bit high and should be of even height......as the they are open a little I guess I should have a guy working on the bridge........should there be a safety rail on each gate?

Here is the bottom or downstream gate




The gate hinges Langley provide are quite neat....

Here is the bottom gate temporarily in position......

 



 

And here are the top gates in position



The lock area is now clad using a variety of wills granite sett off cuts. Painting and filling the cracks with moss etc is one of the next jobs




This shows the Exchange Siding bridge in place........I have to constantly move the bridges back and forth not just to take photos but also to access the canal and then put them back again to ensure the side structures (in this case ramps) fit flush.



Despite the brown paint smudge this shot actually cheered me up a lot because I can now visualise the end result of this little scene and I am quite pleased with overall effect

Conversely this shot with the viaduct in place I found quite depressing..............the viaduct isnt finished after all......a very obvious crack and some very unconvincing stonework.....ugh!!!!

 



The next shots illustrates some of the problems/frustrations I am having with the project. I preach Broad Brush and then waste days fine tuning some aspect of the lock which will eventually be dominated and overshadowed by the girder bridge.

 




 




Having shared my frustrations I still think there is some progress. Any day now I will get a delivery of urgently needed road materials from Cornwall and I can finish laying the roads and towpaths......and in the meantime I can look forward to my first experience with Magic Water.

 

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Looking good, John.  :thumbs  Two bits of advice from one who has used Magic Water.   1 Make sure there are no holes in the baseboard, and 2 Make sure the layout is level.  It's the very devil to get out of the carpet.  :mutley

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This is fascinating, John. I like it a lot.

Mike

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I can see the work that has gone into that, John.

I don't think the 'crack' is too much to worry about.
Perhaps a little scatter where plant life has found a foothold?
Maybe a dab of paint on the edges near your 'brown smudge' but the whole thing looks very impressive.
Photo's famously enlarge any blips.
The fact that it's partly hidden is an attraction for the viewer - the implication is there is a lot going on elsewhere.
Great project.

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watching a scene come together is never boring John, so plod on,
the girder bridge looks brill, nice bit of weathering, the canal too.

:doublethumb:lol::cool:

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owen69 wrote: watching a scene come together is never boring John, so plod on,
the girder bridge looks brill, nice bit of weathering, the canal too.

:doublethumb:lol::cool:

woteesed!

If you think your hard work on the lock gate will be overlooked, perhaps a light coloured 'something' behind to draw the eye in would help?

Doug

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Hi John

Excellent progress on the lock.  Ends of the beams would have been white - very well worn to fit into the same pattern as the rest of the gate weathering. Paddle racks are right to be uneven as no two sets are exactly the same and the height looks fine.

The ledges on the downstream side of the gates often have large quantities of ferns and greenery growing on them - not unknown for ducks and other birds to nest on them hidden in the foliage.

Its coming on a treat.

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Looking good, John.  :thumbs  Two bits of advice from one who has used Magic Water.   1 Make sure there are no holes in the baseboard, and 2 Make sure the layout is level.  It's the very devil to get out of the carpet.  :mutley

Thanks Max. I have tried to seal everything and the brochure suggests painting a thin coat of diluted Magic Water as a final seal (I guess like the the first coat of varnish)

The carpet is pretty bad what with an accident with a soldering iron and a pot of black paint.....regardless in an abundance of caution there will be newspapers down AND  SWMBO is actually going to do the pouring.....so I may emerge squeaky clean.....fingers crossed

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Thanks for all the encouragement Guys........its this quick forum response that makes writing the thread worthwhile........particularly from Modellers whose work I especially admire

As you gathered after looking at the photos I was getting a bit down......now its all onward and upward.

Thanks for the input Richard......weathered white beams it is.

 

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John. I have just been playing catch up on your layout and I have enjoyed reading about your efforts with the canal and viaduct. The stonework looks really effective and with that rusty bridge it will create a very atmospheric setting for your railway. I also think it will look most impressive when all the scenery connecting the various elements are in place. Although a huge project I think it is going very well and there is a great deal of inspiration there for me, as I keep putting off work on a large section of my own layout.

Bob(K)

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Thanks Bob

Good to hear from you. I have always admired your layout and I am flattered that my canal may inspire you:thumbs:thumbs

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Very atmospheric:pathead

Those lock gates look good to me. Not sure if the ends would have been white back then, but I presume that the canal is supposed to be run down / derelict so maybe just a little white dry brushed would do the trick.

Looking good John.:cheers

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I haven't commented on this latest batch of photos John - I've been far too busy studying them !!

I have to say that, from where I'm sitting, this is definitely up there with the very best of them. :thumbs

The paint job and weathering is absolutely first class - not over done and conveying just the right amount of wear and tear in the right places.  The lock looks wonderful - and the gates are incredibly detailed.  Some of that is down to Langley but, as anyone will confirm, it's the painting that makes or breaks a model.  It's certainly made yours.

Really looking forward to seeing how it progresses but in the meantime, I'm going back for another session of inspiration. :cheers

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pnwood wrote:
Those lock gates look good to me. Not sure if the ends would have been white back then, but I presume that the canal is supposed to be run down / derelict so maybe just a little white dry brushed would do the trick.



Petermac wrote:
I haven't commented on this latest batch of photos John - I've been far too busy studying them !!

I have to say that, from where I'm sitting, this is definitely up there with the very best of them. :thumbs

The paint job and weathering is absolutely first class - not over done and conveying just the right amount of wear and tear in the right places.  The lock looks wonderful - and the gates are incredibly detailed.  Some of that is down to Langley but, as anyone will confirm, it's the painting that makes or breaks a model.  It's certainly made yours. 

Thanks Guys as I wrote earlier it is very good of you to make such nice comments.....particularly when I was getting a bit depressed about my progress

Its 1947 Nick so the canal is sort of running down rather than run down......there will be some warehouse activity on the wharf between the girder bridge and the foreground bridge......I am contemplating a canal exchange siding leading into the warehouse at the upper level............my canal guru Richard says white was right for the period but it will be weathered

A couple of setbacks.....Richard wrote me a charming complimentary PM but pointed out the hinges for the gates should be set into the sets................ugh ugh and ugh again.........this makes perfect sense.......why didnt I think of it??? but it will take forever to make a half decent job of cutting them in and worse still it will upset the way the gates are set into the canal........hopefully he will come up with some sort of precedent/work around

The hinges arnet glued down in this shot but you can see the problem




Secondly SWMBO the resident colour guru has determined that the base colour is too dark and not green enough......having seen a canal in Inspector Lewis last night she may well be right (she usually is)

This is one of those things I have to get absolutely right......once I start pouring the Magic Water there is no going back so I need to do some more work on the test bed and do a trial pour and then repaint the actual canal bed

I will let you know how I get on 

 

 

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John

Have PM 'd a couple of possible solutions to the hinge problem .As regards water colour dont compare the canal you saw on Lewis or the same one in episodes of Morse as it is usually the Oxford canal which in modern times is completely different from a canal ( and especially the Shroppie) in working days when the colour was far more influenced by industrial polution and the deep drafted loaded working boats dragging the bottom and releasing the silt into suspension. A deep muddy brown or even brackish black in towns would be more to the time period.

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Now Richard, you have gone & spoilt my thoughts of UK canals thinking they were always bright & clean, etc !!!:oops:

Real Life & TV do not always agree.

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Sol

Compared to a few years ago todays canals are very clean and hold hugh stocks of fish and other forms of plant life and wildlife thrive with many forms of rare UK species making their homes on canal banks.

It wasnt like that not many years ago when I was stood on the bank of a canal in the Midlands watching a boat which seemed to be emitting a large amount of smoke and steam from the area around its propellor that it was pointed out to me that it wasnt steam but phosphorous residue that had been dumped into the canal by a chemical works  being disturbed by the prop and absolutely nothing could live in that water. Things have come a long way and if you fall in there today not only would you survive you might , just might get away without being hospitalised and having to have your stomach pumped.:lol::mutley

Last edited on Fri Oct 8th, 2010 09:34 am by Wheeltapper

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The colour of bodies of water is also materially changed by the reflections of surrounding scenery, depending on the view.
Very difficult to model.

I went on the horse drawn tourist canal boat at Llangollen recently (don't ask) and that water was very clear when in shadow.

(Some may remember that, at the end of the outward trip, the horse is attached to the opposite end of the boat and towed back.
On this occasion, the attendant forgot to re-attach the horse and wandered about 300metres back up the towpath without the boat).

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Wheeltapper wrote: John

Have PM 'd a couple of possible solutions to the hinge problem .As regards water colour dont compare the canal you saw on Lewis or the same one in episodes of Morse as it is usually the Oxford canal which in modern times is completely different from a canal ( and especially the Shroppie) in working days when the colour was far more influenced by industrial polution and the deep drafted loaded working boats dragging the bottom and releasing the silt into suspension. A deep muddy brown or even brackish black in towns would be more to the time period.


Thanks for the workarounds Richard but in the end I decided I shouldnt compromise.......grabbed a new exacto blade took a deep breath and started carving




I am delaying inserting the last bit of coping stone until the gates go back




Its fortunate I never aspired to be a brain surgeon:lol::lol: But white glue, paint and a bit of moss and grease(?) will hide a multitude of sins............I had to file a bit off the bottom of the gates and a bit off the bottom gate hinge but they fit fine now......just waiting for the white paint to dry

This shot shows I have started to dry brush the setts to get them a little more uniform.....as I said the whole area is made up from off cuts from goods yards and shed areas from two previous layouts and it was a real patchwork quilt

I appreciate the warning about canal water in North Wales 1947 as opposed to Oxford 2008!

This is the base colour I am thinking of going with.......................comments would be welcome




The brush marks arent as obvious in real life..........and the coping stones need some touch up  

 

 

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John that's coming on nicely. Can I ask if you are using a flash when you take the pictures? If you are that is probably why brush strokes etc show up. The flash is very cruel to models. If you can, try using a lamp or natural light. I think that will allow us to see the colours better too as a flash tends to bring out the red in everything. Just a suggestion?

Bob(K)

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Good call Nick thank you

I use Photoshop Elements and usually do an Autosmartfix and that makes the shots more presentable but perhaps less close to actuality

This one is straight from the camera untouched using standard electric light with the Tungsten Light White balance setting

The brush strokes are there but less obvious and the colour is a closer match



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John, may I ask a question, are you using the 'macro' function on your camera?  I ask because your last picture above shows an area in focus, and very nearby an area out of focus....

By trial and error, [certainly not 'coz I'm a photographer of any ability] I found that by backing off, to the point where an ordinary shot 'focuses', taking the picture and then cropping the result to get a close up give me much better results than using the macro setting which only seems to be good for very small things like  moffs....

Doug




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I agree with the comments about the use of flash being unkind especially if like me you use a very basic point and shoot camera . Having done some experiments earlier in the year I now just use an anglepoise which has a daylight bulb that SWMBO uses for her embroidery work fitted which seems to give a much softer and forgiving light .

The mix and match on the sets is very prototypical as all lock surfaces have had many repairs needed through wear and use , subsidence or damage  over the years and wouldnt look right if perfect.

The hinges look much better now they are set into the surface and I dont think you are far out with the base water colour but until you actually get the magic water in place it is difficult to tell . Its a product I have never used so am looking forward to seeing the results.

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dooferdog wrote: John, may I ask a question, are you using the 'macro' function on your camera?  I ask because your last picture above shows an area in focus, and very nearby an area out of focus....

By trial and error, [certainly not 'coz I'm a photographer of any ability] I found that by backing off, to the point where an ordinary shot 'focuses', taking the picture and then cropping the result to get a close up give me much better results than using the macro setting which only seems to be good for very small things like  moffs....

Doug


The camera doesnt have a macro function.......it has a sort of multi focus gizmo and I am afraid I was in a rush to get the shot sent off so I was rather careless:oops::oops::oops:    Thanks for the reminder about the cropping technique I use it occasionally but not nearly enough. Thank you so much for sharing the "moff" with me its an amazing shot

Wheeltapper wrote: The mix and match on the sets is very prototypical as all lock surfaces have had many repairs needed through wear and use , subsidence or damage  over the years and wouldnt look right if perfect.


 I am relieved to hear that:lol:

The hinges look much better now they are set into the surface and I dont think you are far out with the base water colour but until you actually get the magic water in place it is difficult to tell . Its a product I have never used so am looking forward to seeing the results.


The moment of truth is very near......warch this space!!!

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I am getting to the stage when I can start thinking about detailing......always a good sign.......so I need some advice please.

Langley include a couple of accessories with the lock gates

Sluice Gates



I was thinking of putting this on the downstream lock. From a practical point of view it makes sense in that it would provide additional supply when filling the lock........Richard raised this way back.

I assume I would set it in to the setts (I now realise it is facing the wrong way :oops::oops:) and I have a spare paddle set so I could attach this to the lock wall which would add some interest as well.......I am not certain whether this would be correct or whether it would have been recessed into the wall  

Life Belts

I cant recall seeing Life Belts on any of the Photos Richard sent me......I am sure they will be in place now but I am less certain about 1947

I am assuming they would be in the lock areas where the depths will be up to 14' as opposed to the canal depth of 4'. Anyway unless it is absolutely wrong I propose putting them on the lock area.....it will give that splash of light DD was suggesting

Langley supply three different types.....a loose one and two on different types of stand. This one is straight forward (sorry about the photo quality)

.


But this one intrigues me

 

,


The life belt is attached to a wooden board about a scale 3' x 3' with a lip at the top and a metal hinge at the bottom. I am confident it is the right way up.....Langley photo it this way.

I am deducing that it is mounted at the waters edge with the life belt side away from the water.....if someone falls, in the lifebelt is thrown to them and the board kicked over (through 180o) into the water where the lip now forms a step.

I would appreciate either confirmation or an alternative set up.

Bollards and Mooring Rings

Langley provide 4 of each.....I ve painted and weathered them and the plan is to use the bollards on the locks and "Richards Wharf" and the rings suitably rusted on the tow path before the upstream lock

Now for some other questions

Lighting

 The towpath runs alongside a road so I will have municipal street lighting but I am not sure whether the locks and wharf would be lit.......if they were..... I have some Mikes Models Lamp Standards that I could paint Battleship Grey......would that be appropriate?

Clutter and other detail

Any ideas on the sort of stuff I should put in the lock areas......fire buckets for example? 

Fire away guys.....I need your help

 

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Looking good, John.
I like the detail on that sluice gate ratchet.

Any space for a lock-keepers cottage (or hut)?

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Much better photo without the flash John, the whole lock area is coming along very nicely.
Unfortunately I can't give you any pointers as to detailing, locks, let alone canals, do not exist here in Western Australia.

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 This earlier shot shows the street leading from the wharf coming to an abrupt end!



Much needed Road Materials have now arrived from Cornwall and been quickly pressed into service.



The area beyond the viaduct, adjacent to the lock, has been built up with foam board and the road climbs gently up to it. I felt it was important to do this so that the upper lock is part of the overall topography. 

The gaps and barebits will be filled with grass etc but that will only happen after the water is poured and the bridges are bedded in permanently



Looking from the other side you can see the foamboard and also some plastic off cuts which have been glued down to provide the foundation for pavement and the local pub



This shows the foundations and an area that will be the pub yard with an outdoor gents etc

Here is an initial (out of focus) shot of the Star and Dragon

 




This is another Langley kit that I have had for a number of years......you will see plenty of the pub before I am done, hopefully in sharper focus

The reason for including it now is merely to serve as an intro to yet another example of Dew's folly 

The back and one of the sides are fine




Yet again I mistakenly thought I could save time by leaving one side unfinished (and in this case wrongly clad.....I guess I ran out of stone)

 




Fortunately with the road material came some Slaters Walling sheets so it should be a fairly quick fix particularly as not too much can be seen once the bridges are in place



I must say I am quite chuffed at the way the various elements are now beginning to come together

I think this last shot, although clearly unfinished,  is getting close to the atmosphere I want to reproduce





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Great!:thumbs

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JD - I think this last shot, although clearly unfinished, is getting close to the atmosphere I want to reproduce

It's already the sort of place I wouldn't visit after dark!

D

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This layout gets interestinger and interestinger.  The lock and gates are something completely different, John.  :thumbs

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a nice bit of modelling,and as mentioned with atmosphere,lovely jubbly,
as for the pub could you not just paint the backwall ? as you say it is mostly hidden.
o.k it`s a cop out but it will save time and pennies.
:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

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John, it's looking very good.

When I use Wills Sheets like that, I generally try to marry them together with some very fine shavings or file dust flooded with liquid poly before painting.
I expect you've used this method but others may not have tried it.

Great job.
You seem to have tackled and overcome the little problems which are bound to arise with a project like that.

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That's really coming on a treat John.  I particularly like the pub, it captures perfectly the sort of slightly seedy establishment that is to be found in that sort of location.

Last edited on Sat Oct 16th, 2010 09:23 am by

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Love this layout John :lol:.  Now I know that you are a Formby boy, I am sure like me you have had many walks on the tow path of the old 'Leeds & Liverpool' & I think you have captured the atmosphere perfectly of when it went from open countryside into towns & cities.  Well done!  Mal

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Love the work on this layout and some weird place's after dark on it as well, cool.

Phill

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Thanks Guys lots of useful comments.......much appreciated

ddolfelin wrote:

When I use Wills Sheets like that, I generally try to marry them together with some very fine shavings or file dust flooded with liquid poly before painting.
I expect you've used this method but others may not have tried it.




Thanks DD....... I had read about that but now with your recommendation I will have a go.............I tend to use lots of PVA which creates a shiny appearance and fills in the adjacent moulding detail...........your idea sounds a better bet 
You seem to have tackled and overcome the little problems which are bound to arise with a project like that.
Tackled.....yes.................overcome............not quite:lol::cry: 

dooferdog wrote: JD - I think this last shot, although clearly unfinished, is getting close to the atmosphere I want to reproduce

It's already the sort of place I wouldn't visit after dark!

D

Particularly as its so close to Liverpool:mutley (see the Otterspool Thread)

Janner wrote: That's really coming on a treat John.  I particularly like the pub, it captures perfectly the sort of slightly seedy establishment that is to be found in that sort of location.


Thanks Janner......the model is a little battered but your post is a timely reminder that I need to tone down the fascia paintwork which is too pristine for the locale

owen69 wrote: a nice bit of modelling,and as mentioned with atmosphere,lovely jubbly,
as for the pub could you not just paint the backwall ? as you say it is mostly hidden.
o.k it`s a cop out but it will save time and pennies.


Good Call Owen......I may be able to get away with painting the side grey and the top bit which is the only part one can see is stone....just needs detailing.............thanks for the idea

 

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If you are going to try it, John, the method probably works best with file dust - I usually file a piece of scrap for the purpose.
If it's to be painted, it doesn't matter what colour.
It's important to fill joins proud before applying the poly.
You will find there is a short window of opportunity when the mixture is mallable to align, in this instance, the cobbles.

The method is also useful to fill any unexpected gaps in building corners etc.

Last edited on Sun Oct 17th, 2010 07:56 am by ddolfelin

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ddolfelin wrote: If you are going to try it, John, the method probably works best with file dust - I usually file a piece of scrap for the purpose.
If it's to be painted, it doesn't matter what colour.
It's important to fill joins proud before applying the poly.
You will find there is a short window of opportunity when the mixture is mallable to align, in this instance, the cobbles.

The method is also useful to fill any unexpected gaps in building corners etc.

Or there's Milliput............................:roll:

John, this corner of your layout is really interesting and extremely well thought out.  The industrial canal scene is beautifully depicted.  That last B/W shot could be a scene from "The Blue Lamp" or some "sleezy" area where "Bobbies" always went in pairs !!!

I'm very, very impressed. :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

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Milliput is useful but it doesn't meld to existing plastic in the same way.

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Those little life belts look good. As far as clutter goes I am not sure there would be too much around the lock itself as it would get in the way of operations. Maybe some people such as the lock keeper and other locals. You could consider some repairs being done by a team of workers?

Bob(K)

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John you are correct about the locations and uses of lifebelts and the way that the board mounted one would be used.  I am not sure if they were around in 1947 though, my Dad was not even born then!

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Christrerise wrote: John you are correct about the locations and uses of lifebelts and the way that the board mounted one would be used.  I am not sure if they were around in 1947 though, my Dad was not even born then!
Thanks Chris.....the board mounted one puzzled me.....never seen anything like it


Richard, my Canal guru, assures me they were not in use in 1947. He has given me grudging permission to use them but only  by invoking the " Its my layout" rule   :lol::lol:.................I am still wrestling with the dilemma having spent an age painting them

my Dad was not even born then!

That makes me feel even more ancient than ever.......I was ten in 1947 but I didnt live near a canal...........or a GWR line for that matter :lol:

Regards

 

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Lovely models John, You have really captured the canal atmosphere in a builtup area .
As a youngster in the early to late 50s I spent many hours fishing along the Grand Union Canal Greenford Middlesex area, must confess I cannot remember seeing any life-belts.
Authorities in those days probably took the view, If you go near the water you should be able to swim!
regards,Derek

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... but hopefully, not in the Grand Union in the '50s.

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Over three weeks since I updated the thread although I reported elsewhere the successful filling of the canal with Magic Water

I will re post the shots here so they are part of the layout thread

This is the before with the road and tow path laid but no water



And the after 



 



Now the water is poured I can start bedding the bridges in and actually laying track!

This is a reminder of how the first bridge (which I omitted in the photo above) used to look



Now I have laid track and started cladding the walls



I havent been quite as liberal with white glue as the photo suggests.......but perhaps I did use too much in my anxiety to lay the 24" radius correctly

Change of scene from the seemingly never ending line of Langley Walls . These are Wills Kits which are more complicated to build but more rigid and robust 



I had all this from the previous layout so it just needed trimmming a bit. I like the brick because it kind of links with all the brick terraced houses

Once the track is painted I will complete the top walls. The joins will be concealed by drain pipes and the base with foliage 

I still have to detail the lock area with bollards etc.....once done I hope to get some cool shots of the canal and bridge




I did the road markings on the centre line before I realised the bridge was skewed! Then I realised that the road was too narrow and the bridge too low to accommodate two lanes of traffic...........so I have started painting them out but I think I need a few more coats. You can just see my solution to the traffic problem thru the bridge......single lane with a stop line controlled by traffic lights which I happen to have from another project.

With the water poured all sorts of doors have opened.......obviously I want to complete landscapng and detailing the canal module but my first priority now is to extend the track I have just laid to join up with the branch storage at other end of the room by the brewery. This will be the first opportunty to run a train right round the room

At the same time there are the last two pieces of landscaping to do on the branch side



The "building site" in front of the viaduct was originally intended to be a timber yard but I have decided to can that even though I have all the stuff made up and build a Creamery there instead......this will enable me to do all sorts of interesting routines with Milk Tankers and Siphons being shunted back and forth and then taken up to the terminus at the back of the B Set

I will have to relay the siding but I think I can squeeze another siding in although I will have to surface mount the point motor

 



But the big question is what to do with the gaping hole  between the branch line and the coal line.





You may be forgiven for thinking it is the victim of an over active beaver...........not so.......more the victim of an over active imagination

Way back when I had the baseboards in.....screwed down as per the best French Style.....and the track laid I had the bright idea of cutting these holes out so I could run a road under the line in the foreground and hook right thru 90o and join the road at the canal level..............so out with the jig saw.......:twisted::twisted::twisted:

The concept......linking the higher level with the low level canal.....was good in theory but totally impractical...I now realise that the support structure for the baseboards makes it impossible to create a plausible bridge and roadway......so now I am left with these holes:hmm


The one in the foreground I am just going to fill in with foamboard and  add foliage . The one behind is more of  a problem because as you can see it opens out on  to the canal board. My current solution is to create a sort of ravine effect at the top and fill the gap at the Canal End with a derelict rusty Indusrtial Building that I will knock up with some Wills Sheets. and this at least would go some way to integrating the low level with the main base boards..

If anyone has an alternative cheap and cheerful (and quick) solution I woul love to hear about it.

 

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How about a water tank/reservoir feature, especially if you have some of the magic stuff left, on the road side a thick wall with white leaky streaks, some pipes cominig out and disappearing into the ground....


Fawtful Doof...

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Find the piece of wood you jig sawed out?

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dooferdog wrote: How about a water tank/reservoir feature, especially if you have some of the magic stuff left, on the road side a thick wall with white leaky streaks, some pipes cominig out and disappearing into the ground....


Fawtful Doof...


Thats a super idea :thumbs........thank you......I am all enthused.....a Mill Pond perhaps with a run down mill at the bottom........one more job to add to the list

ddolfelin wrote:
Find the piece of wood you jig sawed out?
Long long gone I am afraid..............this good bad idea was over 12 months ago!

 

Regards

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Great progress...................the last spike on the lower level :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

The front half of bridge# 1 is now fully detailed and more importantly connected to the other (undeveloped :cry: side) 

"The Last Spike" was a seminal moment in Canadian History. It was recorded for posterity in a an oil painting. A host of dignitaries watched as the last spike was hammered in by the Governor General (an English Peer...naturally) completing the rail link from the Atlantic to the Pacific uniting (in so far as any country is ever united) this vast country.

It would be presumptuous to make any comparisons.............nevertheless my connection was, for me, a momentous occasion......I can now run trains right round the railway room........albeit at the lower level and over some dodgy track work and 24" radius curves.........sadly it was only witnessed by the dog..........who goes by the name of Euro......probably not the most popular name for dogs or anyone else right now

So here is an unusual sight on this thread......a locomotive and coaches (Small Prairie and B Set) heading out from Cynwyd on the inaugural journey over the lower lock brick viaduct 




You can see that the the "duck under/lift off" is now trimmed.

Drain pipes have,more or less, concealed the gaps. The road has a pavement and lamp post on the left hand side

This next shot shows the area where the extended Warehouse will eventually be sited.......it also shows the gibbet crane which I had previously mislaid:roll:

More to the point it shows the Lock detailing (thanks to many photographs and tips from Richard (Wheeltapper))



From the left... trough for the horses......bollard.....nick where mooring lines wore coping stone away......the edge of the bridge have similarly worn iron protective bars.....sluice gate (hopefully facing the correct way)......raised bricks to give purchase when opening the gate......Life belt (I know Richard.....couldnt resist it :cry:)......the assumption is that the lock keepers cottage is off scene but the little bit before the embankment has allowed me to model the keepers allotment

To demonstrate traffic can move in both directions here is the pick up goods with a Collet 0-6-0 heading back for Cynwyd and eventually Granby (2011?)



This next shot demonstrates how much still has to be done before I can focus on developing the terminus at Granby



I quite like the line of the viaduct at the back........but that has to be connected someplace.....that spike is a few months away

In front of the viaduct is the site for the creamery/dairy.......then the unconnected coal line and then the dreaded unfilled ravine

However......Bridge#1 ( well this side) is now complete.......so to finish on a positive note and set the scene here is how it may have looked in 1947  

 




Regards from Vancouver .....where it is extremely cold and snowing (not supposed to happen in November on the Pacific:twisted:)

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WOW!
........................Say No More!!!
:doublethumb

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Very nice. Clearly a lot of effort has gone into that.

Cheers
Dave

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Tick  VG  Koala stamp, John.  :thumbs

Didn't people have colour vison in 1947?  I was only one, so I don't remember.  :mutley

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Superb! I see some Piccy of the Week material in there, now which one?

Doug

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Yet another superb piece of work on this forum!

The canal scene looks great as does the girder bridge, I'm impressed by the viaduct too!

Now as punishment for not commenting earlier....
I must write out 100 times

I must look at this thread more often
I must look at this thread more often
I must look at this thread more often
I must look at this thread more often
I must look at this thread more often........:oops:

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John that is excellent really got it together, neat last piccy.:doublethumb

Max, colour tv?? we only had steam radio back then..:thud:thud:mutley

:lol::lol::cool:

Last edited on Thu Nov 25th, 2010 09:34 am by

ddolfelin
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"who goes by the name of Euro"
I expect he widdled a lot as a pup.

Great stuff, John.
Difficult for you to know where to take the pics. - so much to enjoy.

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Hello John,
That is a very-well integrated Lay-out, mate, with loads of atmosphere and some very interesting nooks and crannies. Love the bridges and the viaduct, but especially the Canal,
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

Last edited on Thu Nov 25th, 2010 01:34 pm by

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The pictures look excellent. GWR certainly have character.

  

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Thanks for all the comments Guys......much appreciated :thumbs

This next post is basically to put the track work that has resulted, now that the "last spike" has been struck, into the context of the overall layout

I include my usual health warning......if you feel faint at the sight of badly laid track.........[Escape] now

By way of a reminder the railway room is about 22' x 10'.............the long right hand side consists of a 10 road storage area fronted by a single track branch line (Cynwyd)........to my chagrin the storage yard has remained unused since it was completed in April 2009 :twisted: because the long left hand side, as you will see, remains essentialy untouched.

One short 10' section (the Brewery) was completed early last spring





 

Thie last shot shows the 4 road main line ending abruptly.....in front is the Brewery with the single track from Cynwyd curving round into a double slip which provides access to fiddle lines and a kick back to the brewery.



You can see the trim which now completely surrounds the layout........and based on bitter experience a preventive lip on the other side of the narrow base board

The angles are not ideal but the plan is to set up a halt for the Auto Train Shuttle near the corrugated hut




The two fiddle sidings run on to another double slip.......its actually very similar to your shunting puzzle Max ! It was all laid and functioning lasr February but not of much use because there was no connection to the other side.

From March to October I got bogged down with the the short section at the other end of the room....the Canal

Now the section is completed (although not finished by any means).......this next photo is not for the faint hearted!



I warned you about the tracklaying........it was not my finest hour setting up the tortoises and determining the transitions.....which is why the curve on the right hand track is so dangerously close to the base of the left hand point:twisted:  

I have finished up with essentially a double loop enabling me to run a loco round the B Set and run a brake van and then loco round the pick up goods

It aint pretty but it works




This shows the Auto Train and B Set stabled in the top right loop and the pick up goods being backed into the top left siding

For my RR&Co friends the first two routines are all set up......the Goods is still work in progress

This next shot shows the view from the other side as the line runs back over the canal

 




The area to the left will be the site of a station for the B Set.......so right now I can (and do) run a shuttle from here to Cynwyd and then at each station do an  automatic loco run around with RR&Co. The curve is rather tight but I am going to experiment with Metcalfes platforms

To the right are two sidings heading back to the canal which I hope to link into the about to be extended warehouse

I hope this post wasnt too boring or too horrific......but, after all, this is a warts and all thread :lol:

Hopefully it will make it easier to follow my progress over the next few months    

 


   

Marty
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Very informative and enjoyable John.

Just a little way to go then :lol:

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John, some "warts" are good to show off - that way, we others  may  not make the same error:mutley

(note I have italicised  may  because sometimes how much we try not to make an error, Murphy shows up)

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Looking good John.

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Tickety - boo, John.  Fearless stuff.  A double slip in the middle no less.  :twisted:  Don't worry about the track laying.  Go look at some proto stuff - you'll soon feel better.  :mutley 

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Love the mid loop crossover John, just like having a Scalextric set again!  Do you race trains around to see which will get there first! :mutley

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good to see the overall view John, helps to keep things in perspective, certainly like the set up.

looking forward to more
:doublethumb:lol::cool:

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Super photos John, keep 'em coming.  I love the amount of detail in some of the shots  :doublethumb

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Hugely interesting, John.

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Great photos, John. Your canal scene is wonderfully detailed and shows the amount of time you have spent on it to great effect.

I also like seeing the rest of your railway room. I expect there are a number of us with dedicated rooms that have the same sort of scenario with some parts highly detailed and others not even started. I know I certainly do, but I think it is quite a good way to tackle a large layout, especially if, like me, you want to try new things and don't have a deadline to get everything finished.

I can see that your layout has plenty of potential yet to be realised, and some of those loops and crossovers must provide many opportunities with TC.

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John

I have always found your thread very enjoyable and you certainly are creating the right atmosphere for the era and place you are creating a lovely model railway all will all be automated aswell.

Brian

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Well thanks guys......I never expected so many replies for what, from my perspective, was essentially a linking post.

I enjoy writing about the layout.....I kind of treat it as a journal and find it interesting to look back on and see where I was a few months ago. I really appreciate the feed back and responses that I get........ but it is particularly satisfying to know that you guys like the thread and are not totally bored by it

I think now is an appropriate time for me to write about something that has been on my mind for a few months

I could (and will eventually) repeat why I think this Forum is brilliant but first, perhaps, a little history.

Since I was a small boy (long before your time Max) I have wanted a model train set. Every Christmas I would look under the tree for the Dublo Train Set with a GWR tank and 4 wagons (Six Pounds Ten Shillings at your local toy shop in 1950......a vast sum)..........no luck......not ever.

Being both pragmatic and realistic...... as the Army, girls, rallying and a career intervened......I thought.... no problem I will get the train set when I have kids

Some 25 years later....the proud father of two daughters who showed (and to this day, sadly, continue to show) zero interest in anything remotely involved with modelling.......including, as it happens, Chris, a monster Scalextrix circa 1975.

Being both pragmatic and realistic...... as skiing, sailing and a new life in Canada intervened......I thought.... no problem I will get the train set when I have grandchildren

Some 45 years later....1995...... the proud grandfather of two granddaughters who show (and to this day, sadly, continue to show) zero interest in anything remotely involved with modelling.

So....aged 57 I decided....... its now or never........ and started with a zero knowledge base to try and model a GWR branch layout. Quite tricky in Canada........also expensive..... the dollar was 2.60 to the pound in those days 

Slowly but surely I progressed.....acquired some knowledge, some experience........and vast quantities of rolling stock. The Internet definitely helped.......RMWeb ( I think I joined in version II) proved to be a huge resource.......but something was lacking ........essentially I was modelling alone...................I missed the cameradrie that I enjoyed with my other hobby at the Sailing Club.

A year ago everything changed........I heard of this site (Martin I think it was you printed the link).  I tried to register every week for about 5 weeks.....finally I emailed Bob........and he gave me an A+ for persistence and let me in. 

It totally transformed my modelling.........every morning I check my emails and get involved in conversations (debates even) with guys I have never met but who I now consider to be my friends. Frankly I find it quite amazing.

I look forward to the day when I will be able to meet some of you......no doubt in a pub in Cornwall:lol:

Even by my standards this is a rather long winded reply but has, at least,  enabled me to say a very sincere and personal thank you to everyone on this unique forum.    

There were a couple of specific points I was all set up to reply to .......quotes the whole 9 yards.......but this is enough for tonight.

For now.......my thanks for your fellowship:cheers

 

 

Marty
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Hmmmm, without the specific references to daughters and granddaughters, I have been blessed (I think?!  :shock:) with sons who do show a bit of interest in my modelling.

And maybe without waiting quite as long as you have John, I will echo your words and say...

:thumbs Woteesaid (Sorry.... Woteesed :thumbs) I'm only a wannabe Cornishman after all :oops:

and keep it coming because your "story" is on my regular visiting list :cheers

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my sentiments physactly,  the modelling alone bit, spot on, join the club mate, ooops you already have...
:mutley:lol::cool:

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As the saying goes "woteesed"  :thumbs

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woteesed too!  (Note correct spelling Marty!:roll:)

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Matches my own story exactly, except that I don't have daughters or grand-daughters, had a train set at an early age, don't live in Canada or go skiing or yachting and got in at the first time of asking (and brought along some other shifty types).
Apart from a few details, seems we have a lot in common, John.

Especially an appreciation of our hosts.

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John

This little forum is ideal for the hermit modeller it gives you a sense of belonging to a club although virtual.

All know no question is to stupid and im sure all of us have learnt a great deal from each other and over time have improved our skills.

Plus of course many feel happy to disscuss personal things here which is probably quite unusual for an internet forum.

For a small group of people its quite amazing how much information has been gathered within Ymr and im sure as time goes by even more will be posted.

The beauty of this because of the internet most of us would never have known of each others existance in years gone by

Brian

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John, I think I echo your sentiments regarding the forum, which is probably why we are all here as part of this special club. By the way, I have just looked at your latest photographs and the canal and bridge complex looks very very good. It looks like a miserable place to live, but you have certainly brought it to life and I look forward to more as your considerable efforts have really paid off.

Bob(K)

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John Dew wrote: .......................................................

Being both pragmatic and realistic...... as the Army, girls, rallying and a career intervened......I thought.... no problem I will get the train set when I have kids

..................................................

 

 

Now John - it goes without saying that I echo your sentiments about this forum but you  can't just pop a sentence like that in here and let it pass !!!

I know about the army - Father was a soldier

I know about gilrs - they're different from us ......................

I know about careers - I've had my fair share but the rallying ?

Come on my friend - tell us more. :hmm

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Simples......it was the WRAC Careers Officers annual Rally at Epping Forest.

[He got in by lying about his age and using lots of pancake make-up.......]

Daft Doofer

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Petermac wrote:
I know about careers - I've had my fair share but the rallying ?

Come on my friend - tell us more. :hmm


In the early sixties I was based in Oldham and later Manchester. I was a member of the Highmoor Motor Club and I used to rally in the Pennines, Derbyshire, Lake District and North Wales......initially as a navigator in a Cooper and then driving a souped up Anglia, MG Midget and finally a Cortina GT.................I was never very good......car sick as a navigator and not bold enough as a driver but it was my principal hobby at that time...............petrol was not very expensive in those days.

I gave it up when our eldest daughter arrived......on reflection it was rather a selfish sport........ bombing around country lanes at the dead of night keeping farmers awake. 

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I see - a budding Tony Ambrose eh ? 

I used to do something similar but in Land Rovers.  I was a member of the Pennine Land Rover Club.  We had "rallies" - actually "field trials" - often up on Windy Hill or high in the Yorkshire Dales.  As with you, I was persuaded that it was selfish and far too expensive for a newly married man....................:twisted:

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Lovely story John, when I am in Vancouver in the near future I will drop you a line and if it is OK a visit.  As with everyone on YMR there is always an open invite if your are visiting this area of the World.

William

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bickybtrains wrote: Lovely story John, when I am in Vancouver in the near future I will drop you a line and if it is OK a visit.  As with everyone on YMR there is always an open invite if your are visiting this area of the World.

William


Look forward to seeing you William......that would be great........just let me know when you are coming

Note to self:............TIDY RAILWAY ROOM IMMEDIATELY

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Glad that my post about the forum hit a chord. They were sentiments that I have wanted to express for some time.

 

A couple of specific points that I meant to reply to earlier

MaxSouthOz wrote:
Tickety - boo, John.  Fearless stuff.  A double slip in the middle no less.  :twisted:  Don't worry about the track laying.  Go look at some proto stuff - you'll soon feel better.  :mutley 
Christrerise wrote:
Love the mid loop crossover John, just like having a Scalextric set again!  Do you race trains around to see which will get there first! :mutley

I should have explained that this little section was very much an afterthought............so I raised the left hand formers (terminus) by an 1 1/2" to  increase the headroom............then I had a second afterthought and remembered all the traumas of my last layout with  underbaseboard derailments and my big fists trying to correct the situation........so I chickened out and this area has essentially been stolen from the terminus...........I may cover it with removeable thin plyover but there will be no track over it...............so I am challenged width wise

RR&Co afficiandos know that one big downside is that you need need at least two separate electrically isolated (and detected) sections (blocks) in order to run a train automatically........to do all the routines I envisage and provide storage I need 6 blocks..........so I am challenged lengthwise

Hence the double slips were brought in to play as a space saving device.......the tortoises work brilliantly and once one has worked out the right combinations automatic control is a doddle.................however I dont like insulfrogs and I do get the occasional stutter but more importantly I now realise I didnt allow enough straight transition before curving into the loop ( a product of the width challenge)........... Carriages pulled across are fine............pushed across not so......wagons are generally ok........but the carriage push problem has limited my options somewhat...........basically you have to push straight across on the diagonal and not attempt the curve

Given hindsight I probably would have been better to go with short radius points 

Geoff R wrote:
I also like seeing the rest of your railway room. I expect there are a number of us with dedicated rooms that have the same sort of scenario with some parts highly detailed and others not even started. I know I certainly do, but I think it is quite a good way to tackle a large layout, especially if, like me, you want to try new things and don't have a deadline to get everything finished.
I can see that your layout has plenty of potential yet to be realised, and some of those loops and crossovers must provide many opportunities with TC.


 

You are right about railway room similarities Geoff. I read with interest the discussion you had with Gordon about whether or not to extend the backscene across the window........light has won the day with me but it will interupt the flow of the backscene.

 I have mixed feelings about my bit at a time approach.......I have to confess that I do like scenic work and detailing but I do find it frustrating that the bulk of my loco stud has remained motionless in the storage yards for almost 18 months......I only operate tank engines and 0-6-0s on the branch and until this latest extension operation was somewhat limited.

Anyway all that is about to change......... I have just invested (?) in 24 tortoises and 4 LS 150s and  enough LR 101s and LB 101s to cover 24 blocks..............I guess that was my Xmas Present.......so once the canal scene is complete............

Granby Junction is beginning to appear over the horizon. :Happy

 

As far as TC is concerned you are absolutely correct.........the new loops have provided a number of challenges and I have spent a few happy (and some distinctly unhappy) hours trying to resolve them.......I will do a post in the RR&Co section 

 

 




 

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John Dew wrote:
In the early sixties I was based in Oldham and later Manchester. I was a member of the Highmoor Motor Club and I used to rally in the Pennines, Derbyshire, Lake District and North Wales...... 


MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  so that was you was it John  ?

In the early sixties living on a quiet country road  in the Lake District we used to dread the car rallies screaming past the door at some godforsaken time in the early hours of the morning - many a nice  peacefull nights sleep ruined and I couldnt repeat what we thought of the car crews        :twisted::twisted::twisted::roll:

Last edited on Wed Dec 8th, 2010 02:44 pm by Wheeltapper

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Afraid so Richard:oops:

In fact it was a similar reaction from a young farmers wife when I was setting up a Marshalls point in the lane outside their house that made me realise just how selfish it was and I think that was my last Rally 

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:It's a no no:It's a no no:It's a no no

 

Ok you are forgiven - just dont do it again  (especially around here)     PLEASE !!

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First off I have to say I am really chuffed, as was my grand daughter, at part of the Canal saga being voted Header of the week............its very gratifying to receive recognition like this from one's peers..........thank you guys and particularly Pete (Wogga) for making the nomination

I have spent the last three weeks playing with my new storage sidings and perfecting an automated (RR&Co) shunting routine for the pick up goods...........eventually I will work out how to U Tube this......is there a tutorial anywhere?

I also, very belatedly, started on Octobers (?) Monthly Project.........a North Wales Warehouse 




I am fairly certain that this model will not meet with the total approval of Doug (Dooferdog) although I did borrow a lot of ideas from his masterful prototype..........I have to confess it is not made entirely from Paper and Card.

On the other hand I didnt buy anything.......it all came from my leftover and just in case boxes

The walls are Slaters plasticard glued on to mounting board..........the loading doors are a plastic extrusion that came with the Langley Warehouse.....I replaced them with Metal Castings.......the forming has sat in the left over box for 15 years!  

The windows and frames are the last remaining bits from a Wills Building Pack

Thus the walled in windows in the first shot did not result entirely from a desire to time stamp the building in the window tax era

Similarly close examination of these side shots would indicate the architect had a schizophrenic moment.......or the building supply company had a very low inventory







This model is not all it may seem at first sight 




It is going to be my solution to this problem




My incredibly ill conceived ravine:twisted::twisted::twisted:

Hopefully this shot of the model in situ makes the purpose of the cutaway clearer




Havent decided how to continue the wall yet and the roof weathering may be a bit overdone.......as this is a warts and all thread the moss is a feeble attempt to conceal a less than perfect marriage between the roof and coping stone:cry: 


From the other side




And from the canal...........the lift chain is, I suspect, worth rather more than the model........a donation from Doreen......I winced every time I weathered it




From the back




The Dew design signature item......an unfinished wall.................but for once not idleness......carefully planned

[a] I was running short of Slaters walling and I am going to bulid some sort of lean to structure off the back

You may be wondering about the empty swimmimg pool (salvaged from a Wills pack)...........this was Doug's idea.....thank you!!!..........I have some Magic Water left so this will become what was known in Oldham as a Mill Lodge.......water for the boilers

You also may wonder why I have been diverted, yet again, from track laying. Well it was very enjoyable but also a necessity. The canal from start to finish ( and there is still a way to go) has been chicken and egg. I really want to get the next bridge (the girder) bedded in........but I cant do that until I have detailed the road area.......and I cant detail the road until the pavement is laid.......and the pavement cant be laid until I know what I am doing with the ravine 





So I just need to do a bit of detailing .......Drain Pipes, lamp posts, new road markings, a traffic light for the bridge and I will be all set to run a long coal train with a 56xx over the girder bridge ...............hopefully before Christmas

Edited to remove bold

Last edited on Sun Dec 19th, 2010 08:02 am by John Dew

phill
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That is a wonderfull warehouse mate, its a good build, i am sure doof will also like i. Looks very good in situ as well.

Phill

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It fits in perfectly, J D.  :thumbs  Nice build, too - especially using scraps!        I have to say it . . .   Tick, VG  Elephant stamp exclam:

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Thanks Phil thats very kind of you...........I worry about Doofers reaction because I sort of said I would  try something with paper

Gee Max ..........the ultimate accolade...thank you.......is the Elephant African or Indian:mutley

 

 

 

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Swiss.  :mutley

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Absolutely soooooper!  Full of atmosphere, the roof 'growth' is deffo not overdone, I've seen entire buddliea bushes growing from roofs!

Love it, I shall have to up the ante a bit to compete with that,


Doug


[And all observed pre-prandially....:lol:]

Last edited on Sun Dec 19th, 2010 09:09 am by Chubber

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That's a little masterpiece John. :thumbs

It is so prototypical - I've seen many a canal-side warehouse in industrial Lancashire wedged in a tiny gap alongside a railway bridge.  It really does suggest that damp, rather derelict atmosphere so common with those buildings. 

I'm green ...................:mrgreen::mrgreen:

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I've just read the whole thread again and thoroughly enjoyed it thank you John, I especially enjoyed the canal section:thumbs

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it always amazes me how people can find the right solution to an odd space, yours is spot on
what a build.

:doublethumb:lol::cool:

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Anybody would think it was made for the space! Lovely bit of work.

Cheers
Dave

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Well done, John.
Full of interest and planning skill.

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A collective Thank you Guys

Glad you liked it......I must admit it did work out rather better than I anticipated, mind you I still have to work out how to make the section at the back with the lodge look convincing.......I am still trying to get my head around that

A couple of individual responses  

Doug (Doofer)

Thank you so much for your suggestion about a different colour washing on the walled in windows.......a great idea.....I am off to try it out and will post a photo when done.......hopefully before my pre prandial beer and weekly dose of American Football.....why I continue to watch Seattle is a mystery to me......  this season their play bears a remarkable resemblance to the last days of Accrington Stanley 

Which is a fairly neat segue into:

Petermac wrote:

It is so prototypical - I've seen many a canal-side warehouse in industrial Lancashire wedged in a tiny gap alongside a railway bridge.  It really does suggest that damp, rather derelict atmosphere so common with those buildings. 



Thanks Peter.....Damp and derelict was exactly what I was trying to suggest.........you have struck a bit of a chord with "Industrial Lancashire" because that is where most of my memories are based.......rather than North Wales........and as the layout progresses it is tending to look as though it should be part of the old Lancashire and Yorkshire...........its only the Green Locos and Chocolate and Cream coaches that stamp it GWR

If I am honest the industrial part of North Wales was actually dominated by the LMS (ex LNWR) and the GWR lines in the area were more bucolic (as opposed to South Wales).............anyway I am where I am and its too late to change now.......although once the main line is done you will see some LMS appearing because the fiction is that Granby is a joint GWR LMS station as was Chester.............and the Chester Birkenhead line was a joint line where the practice was to have LMS Engines on GWR Coaching Stock and the reverse on alternate weeks..............there I have convinced myself all is well:lol: 

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Congratulations on the header photo and the industrial scenes with their Lancashire grime you portray; much of my professional working life was spent in and around places like that (including Accrington), which I is why I now prefer to model things clean, neat and tidy!

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Thank you John.......I am flattered by your comments

Having admired your layout I think I have the easier task.............I can use the grime to hide my (many) errors :lol:

Regards

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John, absolutely Brilliant.

I just clicked on your layout thread from wow to go and it's brilliant.

A lot has to be said about having majority of a layout up against the wall and with big corners so you can do more with the scenery.
With my layout you can walk around it, so I can't do what I want (an over sight by me) and it restricts me no end.

Keep it up John as I'm getting some great ideas from you.

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Thanks 3801..............glad you like it and have gleaned some design ideas.

Thats one of the big advantages of this forum......

Kind Regards

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Hope everybody had a great Christmas. I didnt get quite as much done as I wished but I have managed to do some more detailing and run the first train over the girder bridge.

This shot shows a Mikes Models Lamp Post, Scalescene Manhole Covers and Drains and new Road Markings.

 The NCB van is probably pushing the 1947 time envelope, but al least it looks shiny new!

I am pretty sure the Walls Austin 3 Way is right outside the envelope......this is just an exercise in nostalgia......In  my first job after I left the Army I had to drive one of these puppies from Staines through London to the Docks........having only previously driven in Germany this was a somewhat harrowing experience!  

 




This is a better shot of the traffic light that controls access to the single lane thru bridge #1.......it also show all the saw dust after I drilled the hole for the light



On the other side of the Girder Bridge (#2)




I have filled the gap between the canal level and the site for the creamery with an "under the arches" garage cameo




Here is a close up of the Petrol Pumps (1940s-1950s Langley)




I didnt have too many qualms about painting them as Langley suggested......I could relate to Shell Yellow and Red and BP Green with a Shield........although I suspect my memories were based on the 60s rather than the 40s

I was happily putting the finishing touches to the scene with Tiny's signs when I realised all was not well.......I had just stuck on 3 BP signs.........not a trace of Green..........Big Union Jack............."Its British its the Best!"

A quick Google and I am now Canada's leading expert on BP liveries.......amazing sites.....I am in the clear......the shield was introduced in 1923 and BP tried to get retailers to convert to Green from 1934. It is perhaps a little unlikely that this back street garage would have changed though!

Having seen all the photographs, and there are lots, I think the pumps should have been taller and thinner with a sort of crane that lead the hose on to the street.     

The other thing I learned was that for every pump at a garage there was usually an oil cabinet......this squared with my memories of Dinky Toy Garages...........no oil cabinet with the kit so I cut a Peco (Merit) chocolate dispenser in half, painted it Green and stuck a Castrol Sign on

Enough of this trivia......the Girder Bridge (#2) is now bedded in, track laid and operational




Here is a 56xx 0-6-2  approaching the bridge with a train of coal empties......the photo is a bit of a cheat in that there are only 12 wagons but the photo does succeed in creating the impression of a long winding, almost endless, procession.








The 56xx class were very powerful locos designed for the South Wales Coal Fields......but a number were shedded at Wrexham

The model is from Bachman and is one of the smoothest running locos that I have. I have another similar one which is equally good and that will be seen hauling  full wagons in the opposite direction

Before that happens I have a bit of work to do.......this is the exit from the Girder Bridge



The Viaduct sits over this track section but I removed it for the shot

In the next wider shot you can see the spaces next to the canal where the one of viaduct legs sits



In the foreground is the site for the Pub and in the background the Warehouse site. The rails approaching at right angles are the sidings that were laid before Christmas

Before  I can install these buildings and lay the main line over the the viaduct  I have to fix the coal track bed and landscape it and set up the tunnel mouth on the main baseboard to the left

 Lots to do.................Happy New Year from Vancouver


 

 

 

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It's all looking pretty darned good, John.  I love the rusty bridge.  :thumbs

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Absolutely brilliant John. :thumbs

When I see the last couple of shots with the buildings / viaduct removed, I realise what a good eye you must have.  To visualise what you have ended up with looking at the open spaces must have taken some doing. :roll:

The garage cameo is great - there must have been hundreds of those places tucked under the arches in the 40's and 50's.  I'm with you on the pumps too - the colours are as I remember them but for me, it was indeed from the 50's.

The swinging arm holding the hose  was also an interesting feature.  If memory serves me right, there was a little sight glass at the outer end of the arm with a "twisty barber's pole" type of float inside that turned whilst the fuel was being fed into your tank  and large clock type hands on the face that showed the volume. 

They also served you, checked your oil and washed the windscreen if necessary. And all for less than £2 per gallon at today's values.

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Yes, very nice indeed.. just love the fine detail.

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Superb modelling John.  That kerbside garage is pure nostalgia.  :thumbs

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Wonderful detailing there, John. As has been said, you have great imagination being able to see what you could develop over a fairly complex area of ends of baseboards. This will look terrific when you have everything in place. Express trains over the top of the viaduct, perhaps?

John Dew
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Thanks guys.......glad you liked it

Petermac wrote:

When I see the last couple of shots with the buildings / viaduct removed, I realise what a good eye you must have.  To visualise what you have ended up with looking at the open spaces must have taken some doing. :roll:


Thanks Peter

Amazing amount of trial and error.......I held my breath when the 56xx approached the exit and I realised I had tested it some months ago with a much smaller tank:roll:

I have had umpteen versions of the building positions and probably waste too much time on minor detail

The garage cameo is great - there must have been hundreds of those places tucked under the arches in the 40's and 50's.  I'm with you on the pumps too - the colours are as I remember them but for me, it was indeed from the 50's.

The swinging arm holding the hose  was also an interesting feature.  If memory serves me right, there was a little sight glass at the outer end of the arm with a "twisty barber's pole" type of float inside that turned whilst the fuel was being fed into your tank  and large clock type hands on the face that showed the volume. 


 

As soon as I got into the garage photos I realised these were just a bit too modern although I think I will have to live with them for a while.......the photos brought back memories of pumps such as you have described outside the George Hotel in Great Crosby just after the war......we tend to forget that petrol was sold by all manner of people......dedicated service stations were relatively uncommon

Langley provided a little printed face that emulated the clock hands....its a bit obscure in the photo......but you can just see my attempt at painting the "barbers pole"




Geoff R wrote: Wonderful detailing there, John. As has been said, you have great imagination being able to see what you could develop over a fairly complex area of ends of baseboards. This will look terrific when you have everything in place.
 Thanks Geoff........I guess its now apparent that its the detailing that I really enjoy........and I am afraid, as a result, I tend to get side tracked.................all the points,tortoises and decoders to do the terminus approach and throat arrived in November and they remain unopened while I fiddle with the canal detail :roll::roll:

 Express trains over the top of the viaduct, perhaps?

Eventually........maybe before the summer............I have a Grange and Black 5 chipped and raring to go along with GWR and LMS moguls and an 8F  (I have Manors and Halls and Patriots as well but they are split chassis and, as yet, unchipped)

Hopefully I will have a shot of an express on the viaduct pretty soon....even if like the 56xx it aint going anywhere in the immediate future

Regards

 

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I have started to landscape the coal line embankment as it threads its way through the viaduct

Formers to delineate the embankment are cut from Foamboard.......from the Warehouse Side:




and the Pub Side




The black foamboard rectangles will be clad with Plasticard to create scale 8' retaining walls

The formers are covered with paper tissue/towels soaked in 60:40 PVA




The viaduct is temporarily removed and a couple of coats of Green and Brown acrylic slapped on




Its pretty crude because most of it will be obscured by the Pub and Warehouse bulidings. Nevertheless I will also be applying Woodland turf/shrubs and I am toying with inserting some rock out crops to tie in with the rock face that will be on the extreme left of the shot above.

Once this is done all I have to do is paint the track and sleepers and ballast the track that exits the girder bridge........and CLEAN the track because once the viaduct is in place it will be quite tricky (impossible actually)!  As I said in the last post the clearances were quite tight.....here is the 56xx edging its way through the viaduct exit 


 




Having breathed a hearty sigh of relief I then started laying the track for the coal branch to climb its way up to the main line station (3")




I have a horror ( based on bitter experience) of two level tracks.....Petermacs comment in another thread (Sol's I think) about the amount of vertical space he requires certainly resonates with me............hence the little reverse curve as I direct the line  towards the edge of the base board before resuming the 36" radius curve on to the main left hand base board. The space to the left is destined for an, as yet unplanned, engine shed and I dont want any significant track underneath it.

Here is the reverse shot of the new track



The coal line is on the right hand side (with the tracksetta) heading out towards the window sill and vegetable garden......the curved crossover heads out towards a head shunt......(perhaps!!) and back to the two tracks that will go over bridge #4

The track starts to climb here...... 1/2" in 48"......which is fairly gradual.......leaving 2 1/2" to do in about 96"  

As an aside this is the first time I have used the new(?) design Peco points....previously they were resurrected from Granby II Great improvement.....no cutting and the frog wire already set up.....as Max would say Tick VG and Moose Stamp!

Anothe shot as I head towards the garden



The next shot should confirm (a) my somewhat cavalier approach to detailed planning and (b) a very cavalier approach to the lease negotiated by SWMBO





For me, the coal line was always a key element in the design. Long coal trains (25+ wagons 8'+-) running to and from the lower level via the girder bridge up to the main line and the back down via a hidden single line to the lower level.

Operationally one train (loaded) would be stored on the hidden line)and the other (empty) on a long through line in the storage yard.......when running they would pass one another and reverse their storage locatons 

The track I have just laid is the start of the hidden line........the right hand track with an unauthorised excursion on to the window sill can climb up to the mainline with a 36" radius curve (well maybe 30") with minimal intrusion into the main line clearance

The left hand track was designed(?) as a head shunt for two storage sidings........however I am now thinking if I compromise and go down to 24"  (18" perhaps) radius the line could be doubled (further unauthorised use of the window sill) saving a line in the storage yard and providing more operational flexibility.

However I dont want to compromise the space available for the main terminus so no firm decision will be taken until I get the terminus throat resolved and perhaps more important cook a great meal on Valentines night

Meantime in keeping with the warts and all concept and to prove its not all scenery here are some shots of the electrics....... 



A trio of tortoi...........

I managed to source a thicker spring wire and life is now much simpler.....with the wire tortoise supply I couldnt get the blade moved over without removing the spring.....which is tricky with the new design.....now I get a zzzzzzz and a click......very re assuring




The wiring may appear excessive as well as untidy.  But the polarity on the points is switched thru the tortoise and I use a separate point power bus.

You have to have occupancy detection to operate RR&Co so each isolated block has to have its power fed through a contact indicator..........initially I screwed these devices on the underside of the baseboard close to the block......but they are a total pain to debug.....particularly at my age so now I mount them in clusters at the edge of the baseboard




On the right partially obscured by wiring is a Lenz LS 150 decoder which controls 6 points.....the mess at the top are the diodes you have to add for tortoise/cobalt.

In the centre labelled #3 72 is the Lenz LR 101 decoder which controls 8 occupancy detectors; on either side are two LB 101 detectors each of which will detect two blocks

Hopefully next post the viaduct will be firmly in place :thumbs

 

 

   

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All extremely interesting and informative stuff John. :thumbs

Are you going to have to move that window ?  It seems to be in the way of the layout  - either that, or you're going to have a very interesting little "scene" there ............:roll:

Looking at shot 8 (or it might be 7 :???:), one realises just how bulky those tortoise motors are. :shock:

Once again, some wonderful little cameos developing although I do just wonder if you need a slightly larger house ...........

p.s. the special meal on Valentine's night is an excellent idea. :thumbs  I'm really an old romantic at heart and I've always found that pushing the boat out a little for Valentine's paid dividends.  I remember one year with my ex, when I was feeling a little "flush", I lashed out on haddock rather than cod at the chippie (and added extra scraps to boot) so her Valentine's would be extra special.  It worked a dream - she left !!!:lol::lol:

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Thanks Peter..........as always hilarious feedback:mutley:mutley:mutley

The line on the sill will actually be hidden by the higher level main line.......which is a good news bad news story......dont have to worry about the scenery.....and there wont be a back scene because I dont want to lose the light.....the downside is the question of access.......even with the ape like length of my arms stalling engines or horror of horrors a derailment will involve major acrobatics on my part

You are right about the bulk of Tortoises....... its a definite disadvantage......I believe Cobalts are somewhat smaller......but as long as I remember to allow for the depth the other advantages particularly totally reliable switching outweigh that problem.

Love the fish and chip story......I had something more romantic with a different end result in mind

Kind Regards

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Lots of Progress

Once the viaduct was bedded in I was able to add the retaining walls to the coal line embankments




The white stuff isnt snow.....although we have had some here....its the usual mix of tissue paper and PVA but now taken into the viaduct walls

The next step was to set up tunnel portals for the coal line and the double track that goes over bridge#4




I painted the tunnel portals (Langley) at least 15 years ago but never actually installed them on Granby I or II. The cruelty of the camera on this occasion was very useful because it exposed the heavy handed "smoke" on the tunnels and the differing colouring on the new (2011) linking wall  

The rock face is my attempt to link the three vertical levels...canal base/ branch and coal line / main line and engine shed (2013?)



I cut bits of scrap cork and glue them on the bias to try and replicate a man made rock surface......I try and think of the cutting into Liverpool Lime Street.....last seen 30 years ago......almost to the day

The cork strips are then linked with Tissue Paper. To finish lots of dirty black undercoat then highlights and dribbles with grey and brown acrylic and a little scattering of mixed turf

This shot also shows the method I use for the retaining walls.....foamboard with some embossed (Langley or Slaters) plasticard glued on........then when all the painting and grass is done a Wills coping stones are added 

So heres the finished result .......hopefully I have managed to link the tunnels together without too many seams




It was difficult to work out how much time to spend on this because once the pub (foundations bottom right) is in place one cant see too much of this

 

And even less of this......behind the scenes at the tunnel mouths......with an antique Railway Modeller pressed into service as a light touch clamp.............all this will eventually be covered with the board for the upper level engins shed

 



 

On the other side of the canal, once the viaduct was bedded in I could add the wall that connects to Bridge #4 along with a load of of probably un nescessary detailing 



 




I am beginning to feel that Bridge #4, which you can just see bottom right above, is actually a "Bridge too far" .

Originally it was supposed to be for a kickback from the coal line and lead to a Coal Mine.......I should explain that this corner of the layout is right by the doorway and the first thing everyone sees when entering the railway room.......so I felt that scenically  I needed something reasonably significant .

For a variety of reasons I have decided the mine will not work.....backing a 7' long train up an incline, round a curve and hidden from the operators view, being three of them

Discarding the bridge would give better views of the Pub and Lock but by the time I made this decision it was too late. So now I have an 8' run of double track going nowhere .

I have one or two ideas but nothing definite.............for now lets at least establish which company owns the "Ghost Line" 

 


   
This is a bit of a cheat as I still have to chip the Jinty and convert it to Kaydees.......but you get the general idea......in the background by way of contrast a GWR 56xx actually crawls along with a load of empties, the lead wagon loaded with pit props

I see from Gwiwers thread that it is now fasionable to show Black and White shots on RM Web. I have always liked doing this.....it hides loads of errors (sadly not all).....so here to finish a close up of the coal empties






 

 

 

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All great stuff, John.

I know what you mean about hidden detail.
I've spent hours on a Market for Much Wittering, most of which will be seen only on Google Earth.

Like the B&W pic. too.

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Your rock faces look great, there are quite a few sandstone rock faces honed out for railway cuttings in my local area, so I after seeing yours I'm thinking I could do some with a sandy colour.:thumbs    

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Hi John, I love your layout with all its different levels,bridges and cuttings, Looks great to operate.
Thanks for shareing.
Derek

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There are one or two layouts on here where I could grow old whilst I studied the photos and yours is one of them John. :thumbs:thumbs

In this latest batch of photos things popped up to add to the "this is more than a train set" feeling and there are a couple of them on this shot:



The rear footpath (near the Post Office van) looks extremely good - just like the York stone flags of yesteryear before that dreadful concrete came along - what are they ?  There's the lovely touch with the drain cover and run-off across the pavement from the fall pipe. The patchwork of repairs to the road surface and rusty railings along the wall top.   All really great stuff and things that are so easily missed out but make a massive difference to the scene.

I also notice the lovely little name board telling us it's "Coronation St" (:roll::roll::roll:)  Was that printed off the computer ?

Extremely impressive work John. :pathead

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It's probably a bit late now John, but you can tip the Tortoises on their side.  That gives you the advantage of the double pivot and herefore more leverage and less headroom required.




For what it's worth for future builds? 

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"what are they ?"
They look like Wills Sheets.

Great pics. John.
I, too, particularly like the downspout and run-off.

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More excellent stuff John. You must be keeping the plastic card industry going just on your own! What is the make/type of the stone embossed plastic sheet that you used for the inside of the arches? The rock face looks very effective, but the item that really caught my eye was the cobbled area at the base of the rock face. It looks just right and is very effective. You have certainly created a very complex and interesting area on your layout, but it works very well.

Bob(K)

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The details you are continuing to add into this area of your layout, John are wonderful. You are making a truely realistic scene. The array of different bridges reminds me of several areas of North London where I grew up where there were places where you would seem to be surrounded by canal, road and rail whichever way you looked.

I am sure that the engine shed layer will look just as great - we will be watching closely in 2013!!

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Thanks for all the feedback guys.......much appreciated. I believe I have said it before but its worth repeating. Writing about the development of the layout has, for me, added a totally new dimension to the hobby. I enjoy sharing my successes, failures and ever changing plans with you all. Knowing the photographs are likely to be scrutinised by my peers has made me far more critical of my modelling......stuff I would once let go as "being alright" I now tend to keep working on because the camera will invariably expose the most glaring errors no matter how dark the corner:cry:

So once again, thank you so much for your kind words.

To answer the questions :

The York Paving stones are indeed from the Wills range......I tend to use their products a lot..... I find I can create plausible structures quickly and they are more forgiving than paper..........the run off is actually an attempt at concealing a bad join and the down spout performs a similar function

The setts in the Pub Yard are also Wills but they come with narrow kerb stones on 2 (?) sides which I cut off because I think it looks more realistic that way...........I use the cut offs as edgings on the pavement and tow path. I apply a lot of different coloured washes to change and soften the original Wills colour

The stone walling in the Viaduct is from Langley (who made the vacuum forming for the viaduct) they come in quite large sheets (38 x 29cms) and the embossing is much more obvious than Slaters. The stonework is perhaps too large for buildings but perfect for retaining walls and arches. There are two options (rough stone and dressed stone). I think the rough is best......the dressed is a bit too smooth.

The street sign "Coronation Street" is an embossed brass etching and came from the fret that Langley supplied for the Warehouse whose re appearance will signify the completion of the Canal saga (7 months and counting!)

Hopefully thats covered everything......now down to the railway room to finish off the pub

Kind Regards

 

     

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There's some really good work going on under and around those arches,John.The way you've modelled the rock face in among it all is really effective too.I like the shot with the two lines on different levels,LMS and GWR.
   Top Job!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Thanks John......glad you like it

Once the pub foundations were in I was able to work on the model itself which as you may recall was a bit delapidated and had the Dew signature item.....an unfinished wall




I fixed that with some Slaters Plasticard . The wall faces right on to the viaduct so I didnt need to insert any windows.....just an advert for that well known brew




Once the pub was in location I realised I probably didnt need the advert....you can hardly see it




Not the first and certainly not the last time I have done something like that I am afraid.

Here is the finished pub in situ with a few customers.



The next shot shows that at least the lock keeper is working.



 

.....I am guessing its 3pm.......thats when the pubs used to close after lunch I recall 

 

 



There hasnt been a freak hail storm.......the large rocks are debris (despite my best efforts)  from ballasting the viaduct  

 

I still havent made my mind up what to run on the #4 Bridge line......last week it was LMS now I am leaning towards another GWR shuttle......(until I can get an LMS push pull)




I really feel the end is in sight.......I just have to finish the Warehouse and the back of the Mill 

To finsh this post here is another Black and White shot complete with ballasted main line





Regards from Vancouver

 

 

 

 

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certainly coming on John,like the little cameos, bring the scene to life,

:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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The lamps on the front of the Pub are interesting, John.
I've not noticed them from normal sources.
Are they off a model ship?

Congratulations on producing very absorbing scenes.

Chubber
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ddolfelin wrote: The lamps on the front of the Pub are interesting, John.
I've not noticed them from normal sources.
Are they off a model ship?

Congratulations on producing very absorbing scenes.


Woteesed.

SWMBO likes the b/w one especially.

Doug

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There are some interesting wall lamps on the Scalelink web site .

Just enter Wall Lamp in the search box - that firm is usually my first port of call for anything a bit out the ordinary for lineside accessories.

http://www.scalelink.co.uk 

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What John? No outside tables?

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Thanks, Richard.
They are nice but in white metal which I generally try to stay clear of.

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 The detail in and around the arches/tunnel areas is fantastic John, A lot of hard work has obviously gone into it.

Is the layout DCC ??????? If it is you have the wiring all wrong mate, there is only supposed to be  TWO :mutley

This is going to be one hell of a layout, well done :doublethumb

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Thanks for all the nice comments guys :cheers...............answering the specifics:

ddolfelin wrote:
The lamps on the front of the Pub are interesting, John.
I've not noticed them from normal sources.
Are they off a model ship?


The Pub is made from a Langley vacuum moulded low relief plastic shell.........with it comes a brass etching sheet and the lamps were on that. The etching can be bought separately

Marty wrote:
What John? No outside tables?
:mutley:mutley You would get a bit mucky with those coal trains rumbling by!

 

Kevr wrote:
 Is the layout DCC ??????? If it is you have the wiring all wrong mate, there is only supposed to be  TWO :mutley
Yes......my first foray into DCC........two wires is an urban myth I think, although in my case the wiring is increased because of DCC point control and occupancy detection

Kind Regards to all

 

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The warehouse is now completed......it took me a lot longer to convert than I expected

You may recall that this was the original start point.




Another Vacuum Moulded kit from Langley.....in addition to the former you get a load of white metal fittings for window frames etc. I checked the price yesterday and it mist have increased in price by about 60% since I bought it 10+ years ago. I have always like the model........on Granby II it was tucked away on the back scene and I always intended it to be centre stage on the canal in Granby III

The problem, as I exposed some months ago, it is ultral low relief 





Hence the delay in completion........

I built new card side walls, clad them with Slaters plasticard and overlaid them on the existing short side walls..........I concealed the joins with Wills Corner Stones........this worked reasonably well although, as you will see, there is a noticeable colour difference




The roof was a bigger problem. If I extended the existing roof line the building would be far too tall so I created a second roof at a lower pitch using Slaters Tiles. I then clad all the faces of the original roof with the tiles from the same sheet. Unfortunately the slaters sheets were not long enough to cover the entire roof so there are a couple of joins which I have attempted to conceal with convenient growths of Moss 



From a distance I think it has worked reasonably well





The detailing is now completed




This shot also shows the mooring rings and bollards quite well. The sacks are from Harburn Hobbies. The Yard Lamp is from Mikes Models

The Gibbet Crane attached to the Warehouse is from Langley (as are all the figures)....... the second crane is from Ratio.......I am a little ambivalent about this one.......if nothing else it exposes the major design flaw in this project. The warehouse should really have been closer to the quayside so the first crane could unload the narrow boats but it would have been far too dominant or, alternatively, I should have run a rail line in front of the warehouse with a wagon turntable......but at the time I didnt think it was practicable......so the second crane is the compromise.

Last time I showed the warehouse some guys commented about Health and Safety.......so I thought I should at least show the warehouse man has a hand rail




You may well be wondering about the back of this structure.............you will not be disappointed.......the Dew signature item has been retained







This is, for once, not idleness but genuine forward planning.......the plan is to extend the back into a rail goods shed for the sidings you saw a few weeks ago




Thus I will have rail access albeit at the upper level and can justify retaining the GWR paint treatment.........however this will have to wait until the main line is finished

When I first started this project Richard (Wheeltapper) suggested that this canal would have probably been owned by the Shropshire Union Canal Co who were taken over by the GWR so I do have a reasonably credible story!

This is an appropriate time to acknowledge the astonishing amount of help and advice I have had from Richard on this project........couldnt have done it without you Richard.............thank you so much:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

I am honoured that, despite my previous hobby as a Rally Driver (and the life belts), Richard allowed me to call the project "Richard's Wharf".

Its a curious feeling drawing a line under a project that has taken up virtually all of my modelling time for the last six months

There is certainly a big difference between this




and this




This is a Dean Goods (Tender Drive and probably the most expensive loco in my collection......but thats another story) drifting down the branch with the weekly Cattle train

Yet another train of empties trundles over the Coal Line and in the back ground one can see an LMS express on the joint main line.......the promise of things to come

To finish another Black and White shot................hope Mrs Dooferdog approves :lol:




Regards from Vancouver

 

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A beautiful facade saved.  Well done, John.  :thumbs  There's so much going on in that layout!

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That looks Magic John.:thumbs

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Absolutely fascinating, John.

Thanks for the info. about the lamps.
By coincidence, I saw the kit for them yesterday!

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John

Thank you so very much for the glowing thanks for the advice which it has been an absolute pleasure to give as you have done such a marvellous job on the  locks and wharf . I only wish my own modelling skills  were good enough  in some small way to emulate the  patient perseverence and sheer determination to make such a fantastic job of this project  that you have shown over the last six months.

The crowning accolade is of course the naming of the wharf  and I have to say thats probably one of the greatest compliments I have ever been paid in railway modelling.

I look forward to seeing further developments on what in my opinion is turning into  one of the finest layouts on the forum,

Thanks again and very very very well done!

 

 

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From a distance I think it has worked reasonably well

Masterful understatement of the month............

[Thank you, v. much appreciated, Mme Doofer]


Doug


PS  Re the distance from the canal/unloading etc, you are right, two cranes looka smidgen wrong....

Perhaps a longer term solution could be a little length of sunken/low track from the natural drop of the wharf-side crane to below the warehouse hoist and a flat bed 'trolley' ready to do the transferring?

The wooden one looks best in that situation too.......[IMHO]

Doug




Last edited on Sat Feb 5th, 2011 03:57 pm by Chubber

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Lots of little cameos appearing on this layout and lots of very interesting corners that will provide innumerable header photos in the future,if I'm any judge!
   Lovely,lovely work!

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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I thought I had seen something like it in prototype, Wigan Pier!

See the 5th  picture down......


http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/ll/wiganpier.htm





This is the sort of thing I mean, any good?

Doug

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Thanks again guys for all the nice comments.......particularly yours Richard......you have me blushing with embarrassment!

And there was I thinking it was finished and Doug confirms my lingering doubts

dooferdog wrote:

PS  Re the distance from the canal/unloading etc, you are right, two cranes looka smidgen wrong....

Perhaps a longer term solution could be a little length of sunken/low track from the natural drop of the wharf-side crane to below the warehouse hoist and a flat bed 'trolley' ready to do the transferring?

Doug

You are right of course but the thought of hacking up all those Wills sheets horrifies me :cry:
The wooden one looks best in that situation too.......[IMHO] 
They are both intended to be wood although the wharfside one is Plastic and the Warehouse one white metal. They were painted at different times and the warehouse one is slightly misaligned......I rather prefer the warehouse one but maybe I can make a vertical support post and relocate it in place of the Ratio one? 
I thought I had seen something like it in prototype, Wigan Pier!






This is the sort of thing I mean, any good?


 

Brilliant!!

Thank you for digging this..... out much appreciated...............you have got me thinking.....I could use a Coopercraft platform trolley without the handle which just by chance I have on hand!

I wonder if I could create the illusion of inset rail by laying some ultra thin ultra narrow plastic strips.......I will have a go.....after all it is being viewed from a distance...........there are actually two hoists so I will need two sets of rails and then I could resite one crane between them 

Conceptually the problem is solved now I just have to put it into practice :roll:

Kind Regards

 

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I wonder if I could create the illusion of inset rail by laying some ultra thin ultra narrow plastic strips.......I will have a go.....after all it is being viewed from a distance...........there are actually two hoists so I will need two sets of rails and then I could resite one crane between them

John, I have every sympathy with you dreading taking up the sheets, but having just had a similar thought re Peters trams......

perhaps sourcing some bullhead rail, of the sort the P4 chaps to hand build track, and laying it on its side from the wharf to the hoists in a groove you could scratch out, or just on the surface, and make some putty type stuff to show where vehicles have been helped over with little ramps.....the wheels of the Dew-Doofer Transporterer would roll in the side grooves of   the rail...


Doug



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A word from Dooferdog and I sprang into action..........I just delayed replying until he was back on line

I repositioned the right hand hoist to the inside of the loading doors.......you can see the patch marks on the shot below 

Then from the base of the two hoists I ran two thin parallell strips of plasticard to simulated rails for the Trolleys

 




The strips ran over indentations in the setts but it would be better if eventually I carved proper grooves

I removed the yard lamp.....I thought it too tall and inserted two platform lights.....currently on plasticene

One set of sacks was removed and a single crane mounted temporarily between the "tracks"  



The problem is that this crane (Ratio) is pretty flimsy and the jib is obviously not quite long enough to span the two tracks

The other crane is more substantial and has a longer jib once the jib is parallell with the ground:roll:




But as you can see both above and below it is designed to be mounted on a wall



So my plan.....which is now almost complete is to fabricate a wooden upright suitably reinforced with ironwork from which to mount the crane




Doug I think your suggestion was great.....thank you.......the rails are just about ok from a distance and I think the quayside still looks busy but in a less cluttered way

Comments/feedback much appreciated before I remove the plasticene  

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Elegant, John.  I love the reflections in the water.  :thumbs

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very neat,I think it looks just right,
:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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Good-oh!  I'm just off to the shops to buy a bigger hat.........:thumbs

Doug

[Purveyor of Fine Ideas to Discerning Modellers]

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John is there a sq in on the layout with nothing happening?

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An absorbing read - as usual.
You carry us along with you on your project.

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A truly stunning scene John. :pathead

The rails look excellent and as many others have said, there's just so much to study on your layout that it springs to life and completely ceases to be a "model" railway - you seldom see anything closer to the real thing than the real thing itself.

There are enough "Header Photos" there to last us the whole of the rest of the year so there's no need for you to do anymore modelling now.

I just love it !!!! It's my kind of "scene" - the dirty industrial north, it's extremely well exectuted and the scenes are so totally believable.

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As always thanks guys......I do feedback and on this occasion it sure helped:thumbs

Peter, you always write nice things about Granby .......but your last couple of comments have been particularly flattering and much appreciated :cheers:cheers

Having had the seal of approval from Doug......the holes have been drilled, plasticene removed and everything is now semi permanent


 

Here is a closeup of the Gibbet Crane with the new upright that I fashioned from some sprue and bits and pieces from Wills girders




I should have inset the "concrete base into the setts......but life is too short. The weathering and rust looks a bit overdone but the average viewing distance will be about 2' and I am beginning to think that sometimes it is better to apply it like theatrical make up......ie a little over emphasis works!

One of the outstanding jobs I had to complete was the back of the mill that filled in "the Ravine"




The Mill itself you have already seen......the challenge was to fill in the rear of the mill and the cutout area to the right of the line. 

I have added a scratch built boiler house, corrugated lean to and chimney

Dooferdog suggested many weeks ago that one solution would be to use up any surplus magic water.......and again I have taken his advice (current hat size Doug?) and added a Mill Lodge to supply the Boiler house



The space ( Pete "Wogga" please note :lol:) was going to be a timber yard but is now the designated site for a creamery

In the back you may see I have re modelled the approach arches to the viaduct 

This next shot shows all the add ons with the Goods Shed in the background



The ravine has been perpetuated with what I would call a beck and a somewhat hesitant essay at tree modelling:cry:






Anyone who has had the stamina to follow this saga from the beginning will recall that there was originally a small signal box in the area

It wasnt one of my better models so I wasnt too distressed when I leant forward  to get at the storage yard and inadvertently demolished it......not a very robust model

It has been replaced with a rebuilt and refurbished Wills Box from Granby II. Rebuilt because it faced the wrong way and refurbished because yet again I had left the back unpainted!




A small attempt at a time stamp...... I understand the locking room windows were bricked in during WWII to minimise blast damage.......made me realise how hazardous it must have been for the signal men in the cabin itself.

 On reflection the refurbishment was a bit too extensive.............more weathering is required

On the right of the box is the spoil left from excavating the Mill lodge. Doreen, who comes from Oldham was insistent that this was included.

Here is a closeup of the lodge and boilerhouse. I have no idea what function the pipes perform,,,,the intent is to suggest something rugged and of Victorian origin




Viewed from the other side






wogga wrote:

John is there a sq in on the layout with nothing happening?


Very droll Pete:lol::lol:





Just watch this space:mutley:mutley

 

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I love the little water cameos, John.   :thumbs

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Great pictures John. It is looking superb.

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Deffo the Collie's Cobblers :thumbs.

I think instead of modelling, I'll maintain a small list of A1 modellers to whom I can dispense words of wisdom and just sit back and watch it......OK, OK, I can hear you laughing from here.......I've got the ironing to do.....


Doug

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Love it mate love it.

Phill

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You certainly have vision John, it would be worth Nevard and co flying to Vancouver and work there photgraphic magic.

You deserve another header picture so do a nice tight one i can nominate.

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Thanks Guys......as always glad you liked it

wogga wrote:
You certainly have vision John, it would be worth Nevard and co flying to Vancouver and work there photgraphic magic.



Hmm......... I am afraid that good photography would expose even more clearly all the flaws created by my broad brush approach. My modelling isnt in the same league as Dougs for example.

You deserve another header picture so do a nice tight one i can nominate.

I will try Pete, incidentally I never thanked you for nominating me last time.....much appreciated :thumbs

Right now I am into heavy construction laying track for the main line junction so my next progress reports will not be very picturesque

Kind Regards

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Inspirational.
Good pictures showing lots of imagination given life.

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John,

Can I ask where in North Wales you have based this excellent layout ?

Stu

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Ahh..............I was afraid someone might ask that:oops:

Its supposed to be a joint GWR LMS line somewhere on the borders not far from Chester. The Birkenhead Chester line was actually jointly operated right up to 1947

The branch which is the completed part  is called Cynwyd which is in fact a small village that used to have a station on the LMS Corwen Line but in my setting it has grown and is now almost a suburb of Granby

It does seem that however inadvertently the locale has shifted further east probably because my memory (and my wifes) of the Industrial North is based more on East Lancashire (Oldham/Rochdale) rather than North Wales. This perception is heightened by a fairly large collection of East Lancashire coafield POs (ordering error)...........although to balance I have a rake of Vauxhall Colliery Ruabon wagons and a couple of Courtaulds Flint

Whatever, the Great Way Round never extended to the Pennines.....so the one word answer....Wrexham

(ps Thank you for the header nomination Stu......glad you like the layout...wherever it may be!)

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Ah, that heavily industriallised East Lancashire / Welsh Borders town of Wrexham... It doesn't actually matter where it's 'based' though, it's still a superb layout.

I only asked as I grew up in North East Wales, not too far from where I think DD lives, and my family have all gravitated back to Mold, so it's an area I know fairly well, just couldn't recognise it from your model.

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Now that the canal segment is completed I thought it might be helpful to post an overall shot of the Railway room



In the foreground is the Canal duck under which can be identified by the Mill and Girder Bridge, to the left is the proposed location of Granby Station........still not started.... and to the right the Cynwyd branch with storage sidings behind

The right hand side is effectively completed with the exception of the Creamery site and the entire right hand corner into which, in the immediate foreground, you can see a double track heading.......somewhere??

 



 

Well nowhere right now other than the lightswitch and a doorway.....which is the heart of the problem......this is the first thing you see when you come into the room........which I do.......frequently. Originally I wanted some sort of static set piece.....its a long way from the control panel 

Initially there was going to be a coal mine served by the double track but for a variety of reasons I decided against it. 

The next shot shows part of the proposed solution



To the left the main line climbs out of the storage yard towards the viaduct. To the right the eight road storage yard with on the extreme right next to the wall a short spur





I was originally going to use the spur to shuttle commuter trains with tank engines however I have come up with a potentially better solution 




This is a Fleischmann Turntable that I bought many years ago. Although rarely used, until a few weeks ago it was firmly attached to the last remnants of Granby II. I had hoped to incorporate this into Granby III but eventually  decided it was better to make a fresh start. This released the turntable....

In an ideal world a Passenger train will enter the storage yard....the tender engine will  uncouple....enter the turntable and return to take the train back to Granby......all automatically with RR&Co............nothing like aiming high.......I suspect there will be a lot of nautical phrases and RLW before that is achieved,



Particularly as I plan to start with a 3 way point!

As you can see the TT fits perfectly into the space.......I intend to mask the entrance to the storage yard with an L shaped Scalescene warehouse with the trains running underneath...................thank you Mojo for that piece of inspiration:thumbs

The warehouse will take a while......seems an ideal job for the summer

The TT will be primarily operational but it be visible and have some limited detailing.....I will extend the viaduct walling to the light switch and that should serve as a reasonable visual link with the front of the layout




Which leaves me with a narrow 10" x 60" strip with twin tracks  leading towards the doorway. It is not practicable; to incorporate a run around loop so I am inclined to leave one track for storage and the other as a single line branch for a push pull terminating in a rather run down station........ideally this would be LMS but currently there are no RTR LMS push pull and although I have one on the work bench......its been there for 10 years.........I fear it will have to be GWR .

Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated 

 

 

 

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The turntable idea is brilliant, John.  Some TC conundrums for sure.  :thumbs

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Crawling through that lot must keep you supple, John.

It's the first time I have appreciated your layout in context - super.

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John i assume the entrance is under the canal, do you not get a wet back crawling under?:lol:

With all that sailing i guess you are use to tight spaces.

Its looking good John!

Regards

Pete

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Could you make the twin tracks into :

a) a fan of carriage sidings ?
b) coal / ash sidings to supply / service the tracks around the TT ?
c) a small brewery or abatoir complex (lots of sheep in wales...)

Stu

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I have meant to make this observation previously after seeing works and track laying in progress (eg Ron, Ian and John's); now my layout is a lot smaller than many and I have found a great aid to track planning and setting out is to mark with a felt tip pen on the baseboard surface, a 9" grid.

9" is a useful size, and I have found it helpful. Perhaps its a bit late here given how far you've got John, and I'm most impressed with the scale of it all, plus its apparent complexity.

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Given your period and thinking 'long and thin' it could be a stabling/repair area for stock and locomotives returned  from Europe, hospital coaches being stripped out, some ROD locomotives being 'civilianised'?  I don't know how realistic that is, but it might be worth a Google or two..

or

a breakdown crane depot/servicing area. With jib-runners etc they must measure at least 2ft long in scale.  A big open front shed with two gantry cranes out across the tracks, some machinery, a flickering welder, a glowing brazing hearth, a crane jib in parts between the tracks, some bogies being painted, yards of steel lifting cable flaked out in long loops here and there, cable drums on low loaders wound with replacement cable, all fenced around, private track gates and a night-watchman's hut with brazier,

but you may want something more ambitious.......



Doug

Last edited on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 03:10 pm by Chubber

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This is one heck of a layout, lovely and the scenic work is tremendous. Do you have to crawl uder each and every time you want to do testing?

Phill

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Just managed to catch up with this superb work John. i've bookmarked several pages for future reference.

I must echo your earlier comments about "modelling alone", but being in this club really does make it feel that the others are just down the road, with some help, advice and layout standards to aspire to.

Chris

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wogga wrote:

John i assume the entrance is under the canal, do you not get a wet back crawling under?:lol:

With all that sailing i guess you are use to tight spaces.

Pete


Very droll Pete:mutley:mutley

 ddolfelin wrote:

Crawling through that lot must keep you supple, John.

It's the first time I have appreciated your layout in context - super.


I am afraid it is more of a crawl under rather than a duck under. There is about 40" of headroom and I am a little over 6' so it is a quick drop down to all fours and straighten the knees and stand up........I am quite used to it now and, as you say, its one way of keeping fit

It was originally going to be a lift up section and I did install positioning dowels and made sure all the wiring stayed on either side. However the canal got more and more complex and in the end I lacked confidence in my joinery and realised the thing was going to be lifted up 2 or 3 times a day......so its kind of semi permanent now.

Given hindsight it wasnt the best design choice particularly the extent to which I am gambling on my continued good health......plenty of RLW should do it

Stubby47 wrote:

Could you make the twin tracks into :

a) a fan of carriage sidings ?
b) coal / ash sidings to supply / service the tracks around the TT ?
c) a small brewery or abatoir complex (lots of sheep in wales...)

Stu


Thanks Stu..............Carriage Sidings are a distinct possibilty even as a temporary measure before embarking on something "more ambitious" :mutley

There is about a 3" drop from the TT to this level so I am not sure about TT service sidings

I have a brewery at the other end of the layout........I think two might provoke unfortunate comment.:roll:

An abbatoir sounds a really neat idea.......all sorts of different traffic in and out.......maybe a Welsh Pasty Factory that should get the Cornishmen going:lol:

dooferdog wrote:
Given your period and thinking 'long and thin' it could be a stabling/repair area for stock and locomotives returned  from Europe, hospital coaches being stripped out, some ROD locomotives being 'civilianised'?  I don't know how realistic that is, but it might be worth a Google or two..

or

a breakdown crane depot/servicing area. With jib-runners etc they must measure at least 2ft long in scale.  A big open front shed with two gantry cranes out across the tracks, some machinery, a flickering welder, a glowing brazing hearth, a crane jib in parts between the tracks, some bogies being painted, yards of steel lifting cable flaked out in long loops here and there, cable drums on low loaders wound with replacement cable, all fenced around, private track gates and a night-watchman's hut with brazier,





Doug

but you may want something more ambitious.......

Again very droll:mutley:mutley


You have a superb imagination Doug......thank you............two great ideas to chew over............I have always wanted a break down crane........In the short term I suspect I may have to opt for something less ambitious as a temporary filler.....all my surplus pension goes on electrics right now:cry: but certainly something to look forward to 

Thanks again for the suggestions guys.....lots to think about

Marty
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Very much enjoying the ride John (& Co.), keep it coming.

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I am afraid the next few posts may be somewhat tedious.....no scenery....no cameos.....certainly no header nominations......

I am now making a determined attempt to complete the main line.

So...... this shot is at the opposite end of the room to the turntable area that I was discussing in last weeks post



Running behind the Brewery are 4 tracks climbing on a gentle gradient from the storage yards towards the proposed main station 

In the front, hidden by bits of track, the branch also climbs, at a steeper gradient, towards the station




The branch line has to cross the main lines so that the coal trains can access the hidden line that was shown in the canal saga 




This  involves a series of 6 curved points. A Xover from Up Main to Down Main then Down Main continues with 3 trailing points to Down Relief, Branch and after a short block a carriage Head Shunt 




The next series of points will comprise 3 double slips accessing 6 platform faces, the Engine Shed road and the hidden coal line

However taking a stage at a time......... last weeks main task was to wire up 5 of the curved points



5 tortoi in line abreast......I used your method for the first one Max where I had a depth constraint but thereafter reverted to the standard installation which works fine with the new wire......no need to remove or even ease the spring..........I have to say your fitting description was a huge help:thumbs

Meantime at the other end of the room;




The Turntable module set up for easy access while I sorted out the wiring:roll::roll::roll:

You can read all about the technicalities here http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=8175&forum_id=151

Many thanks to Geoff for his patience with my bungling 

The 3 way point works a treat (again thank you Geoff for the wiring diagram)

The Turntable set up is deliberately simple while I learn how to operate it with the computor......there are only two active roads, one for entry/departure and one for storage when turned

Locos will be able to use the TT from any of the storage sidings but the siding off the 3 way will accommodate 3 coaches plus a loco so I hope to run quick turnround  commutor trains with tender locos in addition to the tank loco B Sets





You will be relieved to learn that there is a happy ending to the cats cradle of wiring to the right :cheers

More tomorrow

 

 

 


 

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"no header nominations.."

Not so sure about that, John.
It makes a nice change to see the 'guts' on display.

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John, I've just been browsing your thread and noticed an earlier comment about paints, at least you have a model shop reasonably handy in Vancouver, my nearest is over 100 miles away and strictly 'American' so I have had to look elsewhere.

What I found in 'Michaels' , I think they are in Canada too is an acrylic paint sold under the Ceramcoat brand with a colour of 'Bambi Brown' and I use that for the GWR dark stone. You can see it on my goods shed for example, and it looks good enough to me.

You might care to investigate.

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Thanks John...........I will......we have a Michaels locally....I will look out for it

Kind Regards

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The wiring on the Turntable module for both the 3 way point and the TT itself has been tested and tested and tested......so the module has now been fixed in position



The Peco point motors in the bottom left hand corner dont drive any points.....they are just there to power the switches mounted on top.......one determines whether the TT turns clockwise or anti-clockwise by switching the polarity, the other acts as an on/off switch. RR&Co sends signals thru the Lenz DCC system telling them when to turn on and in which direction to turn. Next job......to stop at the required exit:roll:

For once I dont have to apologise for an out of focus shot......the TT is actually moving........bearing the largest loco seen to date on Granby and a "namer" to boot




A 4-6-0 68xx Grange Mixed Traffic 4-6-0    




As I wrote earlier the next few posts are not going to be very interesting but I am reluctant to disrupt the continuity of recording the layouts development. So I thought I might liven them up, from time to time with some photos and remarks on the locos that will run through Granby Junction (eventually) So where better to start than with 6818 "Hardwick Grange"




From the 20s the The GWR had an clear cut hierachy when naming their locos.....All 4-6-0s, the most powerful were called after "Kings"  then came "Castles"  and then 3 classes which were named after stately homes within GWR territory. Halls, Granges and Manors.

This model was produced by Hornby about 5 years ago. It was generally well received by the experts and was compared very favourably with the Bachmann Hall (which I also have) that was released at the same time. However for reasons that are not clear to me it was apparently a poor seller and was never or hardly ever repeated.

Regardless, it is one of my favourite locos. I think it has very elegant lines and it is a superb runner. Once the main line is complete I will be using it on the Birkenhead Paddington trains that pass through Granby......before then I have to do some detailing.....crew,coal,lights and kaydees on the tender.

One change I have made is to the tender where I have replaced the shirt button logo used by Hornby with the G W that you see above

This isnt the Grange tender but you can see how inappropriate the shirt button logo was when applied to large surfaces. Dont lets even think about the gross amount of coal hiding the tender drive Ringfield motor:twisted::twisted: 

 


GWR publicity dept was generally very surefooted but the shirt button logo was a screw up on a par with the bizarre rebadging of British Airways in the 80s

You have to wonder what they were thinking about (and Hornby for that matter)




 Bit off topic but I hope you found it of interest

 

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Great idea to show us the locos that will run on this beautiful layout. I am looking forward to the next one!:doublethumb

 

Thomas

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All good, John.  :thumbs  Could you improve that coal by sticking some real coal over it?  PVA will do it and it improves the look no end.

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Thanks Guys............so I cracked the 5000 view barrier....wow!

I do put real coal on Max. I have a precious store that I look after very carefully. That is one of the worst examples of a Hornby tender drive (its off the early 28xx 2-8-0)......apart from the fact the motor doesnt work the mound is so high it is difficult to add further height to it............I have a Dean Goods that I detailed and in the end I just painted the plastic coal to make it more realistic

Thankfully Hornby dont make tender drive any more  

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Keep it coming John it's all good stuff :thumbs

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This Shirt-button/GW  saga interests me as I am modelling 1930s.

My diesel railcar is S'button, my pannier is 'GREAT WESTERN', my 45XX is G. W. R. and my 'B' Set is GREAT[Large Crest]WESTERN and I have yet to convince myself that running them together would not be an unforgivable anachronism.

Similar concerns must enter the modellers mind over the birth of the 'Great Four' as I refuse to believe that on one day all locos were company colours and the next they were BR black! As for Kings and Castles in blue......


Interesting pictures, keep up the story line.


Doug

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Doug

Nothing wrong in running shirtbutton and the crest together or the crest and BR black/blue.

Have a look at
http://www.gwr.org.uk/Liveriescoach1934.html
http://www.gwr.org.uk/Liveriescoach1942.html

Livery changes would have been done from the more important engines and stock down or when a repaint was due. I believe the BR livery changes were decided on sometime towards the end of 1948 so it would have been 1949 possibly before the blue Kings and the "Ferret and Dartboard" appeared.

Anyway it's your world, run it how you see fit.

Chris

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Thanks for that, Chris :thumbs !


Doug

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Thanks for the comments guys

Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner Doug.

Chris is correct if your layout is based after 1942...........with the caveat that only old grungy locos should have a rather faded "Great Western" because the shirt button was introduced in 1934

If your layout is based in the late 30s then you shouldnt really have GWR (Tank Engines) or G crest W on the tenders because they were not introduced to replace the shirt button until 1942........interesting that they did it in the middle of the war

Technically you shouldnt run your GWR prairie without changing the logo but as your layout is based on the assumption that WWII didnt happen there is an easier solution....the layout is based in the early 40s:lol:
which I hope to base on a rather unusual premise, that WWII didn't happen. No War Duties, no British Rail, no common user, no decline following the straightened circumstances that pertained following 1945. 
This search for accuracy, that we all have, coupled with the necessity for the viewer to suspend belief in some areas is perhaps worth a thread in its own right

Regards from Vancouver

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Thanks, John. It's something to think about, but plenty to do before then! I've stuck the replies on a Windows Note in my documents for when I get to the 'fiddling about stage'.

Doug

Last edited on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 05:59 pm by Chubber

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John Dew wrote:

This search for accuracy, that we all have, coupled with the necessity for the viewer to suspend belief in some areas is perhaps worth a thread in its own right

Regards from Vancouver


When i started on this forum i was not interested in authenticity at all, i know jack about prototypes. But the longer you hang around with esteemed company on here it starts to bother you and low and behold you slowly turn into a poor grade rivet counter.

John i agree totally if you know something isn't right or as good as it should be it now bothers me. Infectious!

Love the turntable and the engines even though they are the colour of a garden bench.

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This phase of Granby III is hard slogging in the trenches I am afraid.

The turntable section is secured, the base painted black to the end of the scenic section............ assorted strips of paper have been glued to make the embankment with the main line. Track painted rust and sleepers with grime




The ballast has been laid using cinders on the TT tracks and a mix of normal ballast and cinders on the carriage siding.......its not glued down yet so will get darker but its not totally satisfactory ......I want it to look like a secondary siding when compared with the main line......right now its like liquorice allsorts.......once glued I will paint it with a grey wash  

At the other end of the room:.......the same thing...........  the rails and sleepers painted and ballast loose laid.

The embankment between the branch and main line has been made with paper and PVA and painted prior to  being laid with grass



This next shot shows this section of the junction more clearly. From the left...... Down Relief, Down Main, Up Relief merges with Up Main and then with the Branch ................the ballasted track on the right are  the lower level storage sidings




The gradient where the branch joins the main is somewhat steeper than I had planned and you can see some of the bodging I had to resort to at least get it reasonably smooth......at one stage I had the most alarming camber. Fortunately my test train of 20 loaded coal wagons made it to the top........not without a certain amount of wheel spin..............I then tried doubleheading and banking which was both succesful and spectacular..........more of this later.

The only other item of note would be the temporary demise of the brewery cooperage chimney...............anyone's memory stretch as far back as Blaster Bates......he used to be a fixture on the UK speakers circuit in the 70s/80s?




 

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You can see where you're heading, John.  It will all come together no doubt.  :thumbs

Do you have to lean over very far to reach it?

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Some good progress there, John. The overall scene is beginning to take shape nicely. Do you intend filling in the corner with something, or just bringing the backscene round the curve?

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You must be very fast worker John, most impressive.

Is the 'Bates' you were thinking of the chap from Bolton who also had a collection of vintage steam rollers? I think I re-call recently reading of his death. He was a local character whom I can remember from my days working in Bolton and elsewhere in east Lancashire when many mills were closed and used as broiler houses.

A big comedown for those majestic structures. I can remember too seeing about the last mill engine working in Chorley. I hope at least one has been preserved.

Later of course they and their chimneys were demolished and then Blaster made his name and reputation.

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Is 'Blaster' the same chap who did the series on television. I enjoyed that but can't for the life of me remember what it was called.

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Blaster Bates was from Cheshire.  An ex army explosives expert who took up demolition work when he left the army.  After his retirement, he produced several extremely funny records and went on the lecture circuit even having his own one-man stage shows.

He was just about the funniest guy I've ever heard as an after dinner speaker - he spoke at a dinner I was at once and everyone had indigestion from laughing so much.

One of his anecdotes was entitled "Shite storms over Cheshire" and told of his being called in to unblock a large cess-pit - with dynamite !!!  If you get a chance to listen to his records, I'd thoroughly recommend it.

The guy from Bolton with the traction engines was Fred Dibnah.  He did several TV series.

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Geoff R wrote:
Some good progress there, John. The overall scene is beginning to take shape nicely. Do you intend filling in the corner with something, or just bringing the backscene round the curve?

Thanks Geoff.......there are actually 3 modules..... the junction that you can see and then at the back I am going to put a goods yard ....I can get a fan of about 5 sidings running parallell to the long side wall and heading toward the backscene where I will build some 1/2 relief goods warehouses (Scalescene?). The space at the front will be a couple of loco servicing spurs and a carriage head shunt

I got the idea of modules from you and Gordon where relatively small sections can be laid and wired off site rather than having solder dripping down at you as you crouch under the baseboard.......it kind of got forced on me here because I forgot I still had 3/4" of gradient to achieve ......the junction has a slight rise while the other two modules will be horizontal and slightly higher than the junction at the right hand end.......one of those stupid errors that is actually going to work out quite well!!:lol:

MaxSouthOz wrote: Do you have to lean over very far to reach it?


Yes! Even though I am over 6' with ape like arms............I stand on a foot stool and support myself with one hand on the baseboard to reach the back...............thats why the module concept is so useful.......the goods yard will probably even be detailed off site and just dropped in 

As you can see the leaning did create collateral damage which brings me neatly to Blaster Bates...................

Bob and John:

Peter has summed up my memories of him perfectly although I would have called it slurry but then I come from Lancashire where we are far more polite than those East of the Pennines:mutley 

 

 

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John Dew wrote:

Peter has summed up my memories of him perfectly although I would have called it slurry but then I come from Lancashire where we are far more polite than those East of the Pennines:mutley


You didn't go to the dinner I went to John - either that or Blaster himself was from East of the Pennines ..........:mutley:mutley

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More Ballasting.......more progress I suppose. 

I absolutely hate ballasting..........bitter experience has taught me to take it very slow and very carefully........my normal antidote for boring jobs......a glass of malt and a Jeff Healey CD .........doesnt work......believe me.

I worry most about the points......the ballast gets everywhere except where you want it. I now do one point at a time using a a brush to ensure no particles finish up in the frog or between the switch blade and the stock rail. Then I throw the point 3 or 4 times before and after applying the PVA......So with 5 points in this module it took......5 days

So (a) I got bored with ballasting and (b) I had time on my hands. I started looking at the unfinished back scene behind the storage sidings

Regular readers will recall that above the branch line I have a series of Metcalfe Houses concealing the 8 road storage yard.....then behind the yard are two layers of Townscene backdrops cut out and mounted to create a slight three dimensional effect  



It all ends rather abruptly after the YMR Mill.........like many other projects on Granby it landed in the pending box



Townscene sheets are great but difficult to get hold of. Finally I got some from Jerry(?) Freestone just before Xmas.

I mounted a distant shot on thin card.....painted out the cut edges...... and mounted it directly to the sky behind the second row of houses




This finishes off the tiered effect of houses climbing up a hill that I wanted to achieve

I ordred two of the sheets with the house backs on......a must for any urban layout.......then mounted some other house tops behind and finally a third long distance layer




Right now its a little bright.....this is 2011 vintage while the first shots were on Granby II vintage circa 2003

Its also a little crowded but I am not unhappy with that........small northern industrial towns are (or where) exactly that......a little crowded

Which left me with about 3' at the very end and the ,as yet, unsolved problem of disguising the exit from the storage yard.

Again regular readers will recall that the Metcalfe terrace finished with a double run of Bilteezi Tenements




This was always a temporary arrangement.....the contrast in finish between the Metcalfe units and the Bilteezi was, I felt, too obvious..........I was never really happy with 3 storey tenements in the foreground............Glasgow or London....tick...........Wrexham.....less certain.

So I moved the tenements to the backscene




Leaving this space to fill




I had originally planned to build a Scalescene Warehouse there.........but just by chance the dimensions exactly fit two of the new low relief Metcalfe Warehouse units.......which will match the Terraced Houses and which I can produce quite quickly......so they are now on order along with their latest release a factory entrance and boiler house...........I am hoping to fiddle with these three kits and both cover the space at the front and create some sort of bridge over the storage yard.  

So now I only have to deal with the view from the entrance to the railway room


 

Forget about the hailstorm.....the ballast gets everywhere.....the black line marks the end of the scenic area and is roughly where the bridge will be situated

The Tenement base will be cut back and maybe raised an inch or so.

In the foreground you can see the point motors for the Turntable which have to be concealed by a building of some sort.




This is one of pair of Ratio Engine Sheds that I bought so long ago I cant quite remember what project I had in mind.......suffice to say they have been pillaged and cannabalised for parts over the past decade.

I looked at this scene trying to come up with a convincing explanation for what is clearly an Engine Shed being situated away from the tracks............and then I had a blinding flash of light



Move it a little to the left and it can be aligned with the TT and becomes a sub shed......a logical component of the entire scene.....in fact it enables me to create a completley coherent module rather than a utilitarian adjunct to the storage yard

Water crane, coaling point etc etc......I wish I had thought of this earlier....too late for an inspection pit




The obviouse downside......the motors are no longer covered.......the right hand jobby is glued down forever so that will have to be covered by a corrugated lean to (hence the missing windows....waste not... want not)  but the left hand one can be remounted within the shed......only 6 wires to cut and resolder........no big deal in the endless search for perfection

Now for the 18" or so of sky between the tenements and the light switch



 




No not the Coliseum (although the Romans must have got as far as Wrexham).......I have used the remaining two E Shed Walls and mounted them on top of two Ratio Wall units (that I have never particularly liked) 

In between is a cut down end wall from the E Shed and I will build something above it creating an ultra low relief workshop/shed connected to the scene and the turntable.

So despite the tedious ballasting a very creative 5 days:cheers:cheers
  

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All good, John.  Not too late for an inspection pit.  All you need is a drill and a jig saw.  :thumbs

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I think that tiered effect looks great.

I agree that some buildings are unlikely in Wrexham but I don't believe you should beat yourself up about that, John.
It is your scene. If you want Disneyland in the scenery that's a matter for you.

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John Flann wrote: You must be very fast worker John, most impressive.

Is the 'Bates' you were thinking of the chap from Bolton who also had a collection of vintage steam rollers? I think I re-call recently reading of his death. He was a local character whom I can remember from my days working in Bolton and elsewhere in east Lancashire when many mills were closed and used as broiler houses.

A big comedown for those majestic structures. I can remember too seeing about the last mill engine working in Chorley. I hope at least one has been preserved.

Later of course they and their chimneys were demolished and then Blaster made his name and reputation.


 John Flann and Bob with appologies to John D for thread hijacking

You are thinking of Fred Dibnah from Bolton  - a steeplejack whose main work was churches and mill chimneys. He didnt use explosives to bring down the chimneys but the old fashioned method of removing bricks and sections of brickwork from near the base and then lighting a very large fire in the bottom of the chimney the heat from which opened out the cracks and depending where the hand removal of bricks had taken place which was the skillfull bit the chimney could be brought down exactly where he wanted it . I knew him through the fact he owned an almost identical Aveling Steam Roller to mine but he caused us no end of trouble as he liked his beer and was always to be seen with a pint in his hand on the rally field . At the time I was on the committee of the National Traction Engine Club and following a fatal accident at a rally we were making  a great thing about not drinking when driving steam engines as the H & S lot were seriously considering banning steam rallies on safety grounds . As we made progress in this direction then it would get set back by all the tv publicity that Fred got usually with a pint in his hand .

Fred was married 3 times with kids but didnt leave a will apparrently and when he died a couple of years back his affairs were somewhat compolicated and as far as I know are still being sorted out . His home and workshop ar being turned into the Dibnah Heritage Centre but unfortunately thieves and souvenir hunters had robbed many of the artefacts  before the Heritage people could get access.

Fred was a real character -  pity there are not more of his type around as the world would be a better place.

His catch phrase was "Did you like thaat" - If he could hear me the answer would be a resounding YES !

Last edited on Thu Mar 17th, 2011 09:37 am by Wheeltapper

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Brilliant John - as ever.

I really like the "clutter" of housing disappearing into the distance.  The way you have achieved it shows that you've given it a great deal of thought.

As you so rightly say, buildings in the industrial north were indeed very cluttered.  Perhaps more so at your side of the Pennines although some of the West Riding mill towns, whilst smaller, would come a close second.  It's that "industrial clutter" that so inspires me - as it has also inspired many more famous people than me in the past.  The power house of the "Great" in Britain - sadly now almost gone.

The juxtaposition of the differing architechtural styles is also extremely authentic.  I'm green with envy but, as with every cloud, there is a silver lining in that when I look at your layout, it rekindles my fires ...........

Your "search for perfection" is proving very successful.

Always an enjoyable read and excellent photos to match. :cheers


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Looks like you had an enjoyable 5 days, John, despite the chore of ballasting - actually it is the rail and sleeper painting that I find the most tedious. The result you have achieved with the back scene is very effective and I think the idea of a bridge over the end of the storage area will complete the scene well. I wonder if you might be able to add some superstructure (like a town tunnel entrance) in front of it so that one just sees the two main lines (and the other track near the TT) and not the points for the fan out of storage roads?

Evolving the TT area into a sub-shed is also inspired. You could perhaps cover the fixed solenoid with a sand house - even if it is no longer functional.

I wonder what we might see in another 5 days time??

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John, I'm always amazed at how much you get done so quickly. And its complexity, all the parts fit together so well.

When will you get around to serious operation?

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Thanks Guys.....as always the comments are much appreciated:cheers

MaxSouthOz wrote:
 Not too late for an inspection pit.  All you need is a drill and a jig saw.  :thumbs
Afraid so Max.......a jigsaw in the midst of all that ballast and dodgy construction doesnt bear thinking about

Petermac wrote:
The juxtaposition of the differing architechtural styles is also extremely authentic.  I'm green with envy but, as with every cloud, there is a silver lining in that when I look at your layout, it rekindles my fires ...........

Your "search for perfection" is proving very successful.


Again you flatter me Peter :oops: and you omitted the key adjective "endless".........when I look at some of the layouts here..... Pen Y Bont and Bears End spring to mind...........I realise how far I have to go.......my only solace is that its a bigger canvas than most so maybe broad brush is passable:lol:

The townscene backgrounds are excellent......far better than the Peco ones...... and they are designed so you can create two or three layers quite quickly and they are relatively inexpensive.....thoroughly recommend them (usual disclaimer)

Geoff R wrote:

 The result you have achieved with the back scene is very effective and I think the idea of a bridge over the end of the storage area will complete the scene well. I wonder if you might be able to add some superstructure (like a town tunnel entrance) in front of it so that one just sees the two main lines (and the other track near the TT) and not the points for the fan out of storage roads?

Thanks Geoff .......the idea of a town tunnel entrance is brilliant......I was thinking of some sort of bridge but a tunnel will allow some 3 dimensional buildings on a lift off section (all the terraces are lift off for storage access).......it would add more depth and look better from both the front and side views..................thank you......great idea  

Evolving the TT area into a sub-shed is also inspired. You could perhaps cover the fixed solenoid with a sand house - even if it is no longer functional.

I wonder what we might see in another 5 days time??


I was thinking about that and I have rescued from Granby II a sandhouse that I modelled on the one at Didcot......however I think it should have rail access for the bulk delivery of sand so I think I may justl create a generic GWR corrugated shed

5 days time???  Targets are dangerous.........hopefully the shed finished and trains running through (almost through) the junction at the other end of the room..........which segues neatly into John's post 

John Flann wrote:

When will you get around to serious operation?

Touche.............I dont spend anywhere near enough time running trains on the finished part of the layout..........I hope to get the principal elements of the main line completed before the summer and then I should be able to develop timetables and have some relatively intensive running..........well thats the plan

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John Dew wrote:
I dont spend anywhere near enough time running trains on the finished part of the layout..........I hope to get the principal elements of the main line completed before the summer and then I should be able to develop timetables and have some relatively intensive running..........well thats the plan

I have always worked on the concept of getting trains running & into an operating mode well before scenery was thought out , as operating with others, finds track errors for one, that have to be reworked, so I have been  thankful that ballasting & buildings have not been it the way.

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I tend to do a module at a time and I do test it rigourously before I ballast. I like to break the different jobs up so that nothing becomes too montonous......after all it is a hobby.

Having said all that I do like completion and I hate to see part of a section incomplete...........the dairy site irritates me every day.....you have no idea how much self control I have to excercise not to start working on it right away....as in NOW:roll:

Right now despite my good resolutions I am sidetracked into finishing the new TT area rather than moving on to the next module.......I guess the truth is I like doing scenery...........but I should run the trains more often because when all is said and done thats the purpose of the exercise:lol:   

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John, we all have different ideas on how we want to tackle our hobby - it has so many facets.

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John Dew wrote: .........but I should run the trains more often because when all is said and done thats the purpose of the exercise:lol:   

Regards

I'm not sure I'd always agree with you John.

When I used to build model boats, I'd really enjoy building them and, once finished, I'd sail them a few times just to make sure everything worked OK and that performance was adequate then get bored and start another ..........

I suspect that's the case with many modellers.  The fun is in the chase ............:roll::roll:

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Petermac wrote: .  The fun is in the chase ............:roll::roll:


or

The journey, not the arrival.

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Dead right Sol - at least there's no fixed time for the journey ............

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Nicely phrased, Gentlemen.........I feel less guilty already!

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looking good as ever John, i must admit the low relief terraces look good, have you done much to them or is that how the kit finishes them?

There was a layout called Bash St at our local MR show and both BrianPR1 and i said it could be a John Dew, it was rammed with features. This is a compliment by the way.

When you look at different layouts they have a signature and style and if the builder moves to another one it will move with him IMO.

Last edited on Sun Mar 20th, 2011 10:13 am by wogga

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John Dew wrote:
I tend to do a module at a time and I do test it rigourously before I ballast. I like to break the different jobs up so that nothing becomes too montonous......after all it is a hobby.



Couldn't agree more John. :thumbs

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wogga wrote: looking good as ever John, i must admit the low relief terraces look good, have you done much to them or is that how the kit finishes them?



 

Thanks Pete

I havent done a lot to the Metcalfe Kits

I apply water colour to all the cut edges....I think that makes a huge difference and I also hand paint many of the window lintels.......the unrealistic white ones. 

I add Wills guttering and drain pipes and each module (2 kits) has a lampost and some detail.....housewife milk man etc and thats about it......I should weather them a bit they still look too pristine although they are toning down a bit from the little sun they are occasionaly exposed to in the basement
There was a layout called Bash St at our local MR show and both BrianPR1 and i said it could be a John Dew, it was rammed with features. This is a compliment by the way.
When you look at different layouts they have a signature and style and if the builder moves to another one it will move with him IMO.

That is indeed a very nice compliment from you and Brian. I do strive for a coherent look but no one has ever been kind enough to use words like signature and style before......thank you

 

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John i have uploaded some photos of Bash St in the photo gallery under my user name.

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Thanks Pete

They are great shots. It looks an interesting layout. He sure crammed in a lot of detail.........I liked the way he dealt with the perspective issues that arose from a relatively narrow baseboard. One of the regrets about living in Canada is my inability to go to model railway shows......its a totally different culture here  

Kind Regards

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Well its taken rather more than 5 days........some of which have been more than a little frustrating but now most of the subshed is complete and detailed........and until I started taking photographs this afternoon I was pretty happy!

To set the scene 2-6-0 Mogul 5322 on the turntable 




The Turn Table was the first of my frustrations.....I believe I mentioned I bought it for a song many years ago

I moved  and rewired one of the solenoids......which promptly declined to work...... while I was sorting this out I discovered why the TT was such a steal.........it was slightly out of alignment so when it circulated one end of the bridge rails would occasionaly catch on the stub rails............solution file down the recalcitrant bridge rail..........doh......in so doing force down the spring that makes the electrical contact......not a good idea.......took 2+ hours to gently (very gently) fix

Finally all was well and I completed the Ratio Engine Shed which will conceal the relocated solenoid.

This is quite a useful shot. In front of the shed is the service siding and in front of that the main line......in the foreground the retaining wall for the the lower level branch Goods Yard



From the other side




The lean to was originally meant to conceal the other solenoid but I changed my mind to allow more space in front of the shed. The lean to is scratchbuilt from a Wills corrugated sheet and some drain pipes 

The rust is far more orange in the photo than real life......its even worse in the next shots






The shots above show the second scratch built shed....a mess hut? which I finally used to hide the second solenoid





The road in front of the shed is not hooked up so it will serve as a cripple road........which definitely describes the 14xx that currently resides there!

 

You may well be wondering what happened to the "coliseum" that I was going to use as a backscene to the TT.........well here it is........just needs barge boards, drain pipes and weathering 



I am quite pleased with the model itself although it looks more like the stables at Versailles than a Wagon Repair Shop......Doreen thought it looked more like a prison...Strangeways?........whatever.... I think it is too overpowering so I will probably settle for a continuous retaining wall with a simple printed back scene above

I have added the basic elements of a loco servicing facilty in front of the TT. Hopefully I have captured some of the elements one would see in the steam age at a Turn Table facility attached to a terminus



The water crane is from Mikes Models and is amazingly well detailed......even has GWR embossed on the base plate.

The coal stage is less sophisticated......how does the saying go......something old....something new.....something borrowed and something blue

Old....a cut down platform from Granby I     New......the Ratio Crane which I originally bought for the canal warehouse

Borrowed......assorted bits and pieces that were being held in reserve for Granby's shed           Blue? ...........look at the base of the coal bucket......the camera has exposed the unpainted part of the cut down ball point

It aint perfect.....sadly my modelling never is......and the camera has unerringly focussed on many imperfections tonight but overall I think I am reasonably close to capturing that grey, dirty, smoky, cluttered look that one associates with steam age sheds 




 





The next challenge is to wire up 2 reeds and magnets so I can operate the TT automatically from the computor............5 days......perhaps

pnwood
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John Dew wrote:

It aint perfect.....sadly my modelling never is......and the camera has unerringly focussed on many imperfections tonight but overall I think I am reasonably close to capturing that grey, dirty, smoky, cluttered look that one associates with steam age sheds 



Maybe John, or maybe not.....but regardless you have created oodles of atmosphere. :thumbs

Chubber
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Once again, John, scenes full of atmosphere  :thumbs

I shouldn't beat myself up over 'The Prison', if you masked the windows and sprayed it over with a light colour to more closely match the stone work to it's left, it would recede, I'm sure?

As the proctologist said, 'Upward and Onwards...'


Doug

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John

I rather like the Wagon Works/Stable building as a backdrop to the TT . Not sure about the proximity of the doorway to the turntable pit but then H & S would not have been a great concern in those days.

By coincidence I was looking at a web site that an aquaintenance runs dedicated to the history of the Newport area earlier in the week which featured some views of the real 5322 when it was kept at what remained of Caerphilly Works about 40 years ago. Its not an engine in the limelight very much so I dont know where it is these days but its nice to see it in model form.

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You are hard on yourself John. It's a gift to be able to create the atmosphere that you can.

A perfect model isn't always believable but what you have created is.
:doublethumb

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splendid representation of the area,looks right therefore is right..
:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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John Dew wrote: The rust is far more orange in the photo than real life......its even worse in the next shots
John do you use flash? have a go without, it will take the colours down, just using natural light is the best of course.

Other than that another shed load of header candidates...excellent.

Pete

Last edited on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 08:17 pm by wogga

John Flann
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All very interesting John, but don't get carried away with dirt and dilapidation; the GWR was a very house proud railway-right into and beyond nationalization.

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Hi John,

Just joined the forum and being interested in computer control and RR&Co in particular followed the links to RR&Co - but soon found myself on your layout page reading through all the posts starting at page 1.
Now having seen what you have done I feel inspired and I haven't even started on your RR&Co pages yet !!

Dave

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Thanks for the comments and advice guys

I have to recognise that I am often my harshest critic and I must try and avoid beating myself up in public.......my apologies 

Pete......you are right I had used flash.......and forgotten that I had the white balance set for a cloudy day:oops::oops::oops:

John.......that was a timely reminder regarding the GWR. It is sometimes difficult to draw the line between too pristine and too grubby. I try and keep the public areas fairly crisp but I do try to bear in mind that even in those areas it is unlikely they had received much maintenance in the previous 8 years (1939-1947)

Doug and Richard...........the wagon works has grown on me I think I will take your advice and leave it in situ by the turntable..........weathered and detailed. I think I need to tell the world its purpose (usually the sign of a bad model!).......how do you think the sign should read?

                    Great Western Railway 

              Northgate Wagon Repair Works  .....or Shop?     (definitely not Shoppe .....although very popular over here) 

The beauty of this usage is I can quite properly employ that timeworn cliche.....discarded  wagon wheels 

Now for a change of pace  ......testing (playing) I spent a very pleasant day on Sunday getting the whole thing to work

The plan was for a loco to enter Track 2 (the centre track) via the 3 way point...... draw to a halt by the water crane , pause for a few minutes and then draw slowly forward on to the turntable bridge. The turntable then rotates anti clockwise through 165o coming to a halt opposite Track 3 (right hand track).......the turned loco leaves the turntable and exits the yard thru the 3 way point........the turntable then rotates anti clockwise thru 15o coming to a halt at track 2 ready for the next train..................all this to be done automatically with just one mouse click :cool wink

This is not intended to be a tutorial on RR&Co.....I will write this up elsewhere.......but I thought you may be interested in some of the magic

Getting a loco to run automatically from A to B via a  correctly set point and stop at a given position on B is one of the building blocks of RR&Co although as you will shortly read (unless you are totally bored by this) getting an 11" Grange to stop on a 12" bridge was not without incident:lol::roll:

Once the loco stops in B you can get the programme to initate other pre set actions.............Max and Pete use this facility to iniate sound effects.....Whistles, Lights Doors slamming etc...........in this case I set up a short delay, turned Track 3 virtual switch on (ie the computor knows I want the TT to stop at track 3) and then started the turntable (the start wires are hooked to a point motor so it was just like throwing a point)..............no brainer.......worked like a charm apart from a couple of occasions when it went clockwise:roll:.

 The initial tests were "interesting" to say the least.

Test 1....click the button..the 3 way point sets correctly, the loco moves off smoothly and stops near the water crane, pauses as required and moves equally smoothly on to the TT bridge where it stops after 9"

Short (too short) delay and Turntable starts as planned but with 2" of protruding Grange tender majestically sweeping all before it.........the TT is at the other end of the room from the computor.......by the time this geriatric operator worked out what had happened it was too late to save a number of figures artfully placed on the periphery of TT!!

Adjust stop marker......increase delay sufficient to allow me, on the next run, from preventing 3" of Grange Boiler from majestically sweeping etc etc..............Doug I believe this was called bracketing in the Royal Navy?                        

So now at the third attempt I have the loco in the middle of the bridge .....the TT starts in the required direct