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pnwood
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Hi everyone.

I returned to modelling about 7 or 8 months ago after a break of too many years to mention. My, how things have changed, particularly noticable when comparing some of my old stock to today's detailed offerings :shock:

I'm building a new layout called Much Murkle located in the Herefordshire, Forest of Dean area. It's a branchline terminus set in the 30's, and probably going to be full of cliches. The two main baseboards are built, track is laid and scenic development has started. Here's a taster of how it is developing so far 


   

 

Track is Peco code 100 as I happened to have a stock of points and also because of I wasn't sure that some of my stock would like the code 75. I've wired in electromagnetic uncouplers and will be using DG Couplings after seeing them in use at on a layout at Warley last year. The buildings will all be scratchbuilt when I can get round to making them. I have experimented so far with a weighbridge office in card using Scalescenes brickpaper which I'm reasonable pleased with.

Sorry it's been a rather long introduction and I'm hoping that I can pick up some tips here to improve my humble efforts.

Nick

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Thanks Nick. exactly what was wanted.

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A good start, Nick.  I especially like the different coloured grasses on your hills. :thumbs

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That's some "start" Nick - to me, it's almost finished :thumbs:thumbs

I'm going to enjoy this one developing.

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Thanks Nick

Very interesting way of building your layout, completing each job as you go, not as most of us working on one section at a time, the different colouring of the grass has already been mentioned, but I like your ballasting, the different way you have blended the dark stained and the lighter clean ballast works well.

What have you used for the walling ?

pnwood
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Thanks for the comments guys, I'm just about to leave to go away for three days so will do a detailed response when I get back.

Nick

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Have a good break Nick :thumbs

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Nick,
      glad to see I'm not the only one on here who likes the DG couplings.Although mine are N gauge,I only found out recently that DG couplings were available in other scales.They've been around for over 20 years now,and are widely used on many exhibition layouts.
     And as for GWR 1930's.......well...bring it on my friend.I'm really looking forward to seeing Much Murkle grow.Its my favourite period and my favourite Railway.
:pathead

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Hi Maxsouthoz
I especially like the different coloured grasses on your hills. :thumbs
:oops: These are just a couple of shades of fine flock powders. I'll be adding some dyed carpet felt or hanging basket liner and some coarser flocks and static grass to get different textures in due course.

Hi Petermac and thanks

Hi Alan

What have you used for the walling ?


The walling is Scalescenes red brick paper for the walls and piers with blue brick for the capping bricks, all laid on 2mm greyboard and sprayed with artist's fixative as recommended by Scalescenes. The capping stones are just 2mm greyboard with the top edges lightly sanded to round them off and painted inn a concrete / stone colour.

Hi John B

Yes I'm really impressed with the DG couplings but I've only done a few wagons so far to test them. It will probably be a while yet before I get round to working on the stock.

Nick   

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Hi, Nick,

A very promising start there......


Yes I'm really impressed with the DG couplings but I've only done a few wagons so far to test them.

I, too, must attempt to change couplings from Bachmann to 'Summat Else', preferably magnetic, so will be interested in your experiences. There's plenty in the index here though a few more piccies are always welcome.

Doug

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Hi Nick,
Great pic,s.
Keep them coming.
John.

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Hi Dooferdog (great name by the way).

Here's a not very good piccy of one of the wagons I've done so far. The DG instructions tell you to form the loop from the brass wire supplied and solder a steel dropper onto it. Far too fiddly for me. I found this thread on another forum which is as good a guide to putting DG's together as I've found and does away with any need to get the soldering iron out. http://www.minimumgauge.info/viewtopic.php?t=3318&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 




There are plenty of other popular magnetic couplings around, I chose to go down the DG route after watching a layout at Warley last year and talking to the owner who had tried a few different methods and settled on DG's.

 

Nick 

pnwood
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I've been experimenting with some different methods of producing rough grass. There's nothing new in what I've tried but I wouldn't mind some opinions of the results please. Be as critical as you like.

This photo shows from top left clockwise: Carpet felt stuck down flat and then torn off coloured with green water colour paint at extreme left and natural colour in the middle. Top right to bottom right, carpet felt stuck down in clumps and then torn off, again coloured and natural. Bottom is hanging basket liner, the lighter section is as it comes and the darker section has again been coloured with green water colour.




Close up of the coloured carpet felt



Thicker clumps of carpet felt




Hanging basket liner grass




I think there is probably a place for all of these different textures on the layout but think I need to experiment a bit more with different shades of green.

Nick

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Thanks for that link on the couplings Nick. I'm putting that straight in the Index.

That rough grass looks great in the last picture. If you have a pair of sharp scissors I wonder what it would look like with a really good trim as short as you can get it.

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From a realism point of view I always think Hanging Basket Liner is the best option for that long rough grass look.

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Nick

I like the look of the hanging basket liner, looks a little more realistic, you could then add different textures and colours to it, making it look like it is full of weeds etc.

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My favorite is the hanging basket liner.  The individual "stems" are more clearly defined.

pnwood
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Cheers guys

I've tried Bob's suggestion and given it a 'short back and sides' and it looks good (sorry no pics). Still think the carpet felt will have a use for some areas but it looks like HB liner for the basic grass cover :thumbs

I'll post some more pics as it develops.

 

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pnwood wrote: Cheers guys

I've tried Bob's suggestion and given it a 'short back and sides' and it looks good (sorry no pics). Still think the carpet felt will have a use for some areas but it looks like HB liner for the basic grass cover :thumbs

I'll post some more pics as it develops.

 

Can you tell us in words then how the short back and sides looks Nick. I agree with the others about the rough grass look.

pnwood
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Can you tell us in words then how the short back and sides looks Nick. I agree with the others about the rough grass look.


I'll take a picture tomorrow, it'll be easier than trying to describe it.

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Thanks Nick, much appreciated.

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Good grasses, Nick. I agree you'd find a place for all of them. Nice colours you have, too.
And any project that bypasses soldering is a winner with me!

Mike

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OK here's some more photos as promised

This was the Hanging basket liner sample as originally laid to the sample tester and only slightly trimmed to remove the excessively long strands.




Now it's been given the short back and sides treatment with a pair of scissors. This is as short as I can seem to get it with scissors and although it's made quite a difference the photos still make it look quite long. I've just had the thought that a shaver trimmer attachment might cut it down even further which looks like being my next experiment :roll:






To give a better idea of height heres a side on view, the ply is 6mm thick




The only issue I have with HB liner is that it leaves long strands stuck down in the glue which show up and have to be somehow cut out, which I imagine is going to be quite a tedious job over a large area. 

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Hi Nick.  I'm going to put up a warning about using carpet underfelt in the Shunters Return.  It can be dangerous.  Cheers  Max

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Hi Nick.  I'm going to put up a warning about using carpet underfelt in the Shunters Return.  It can be dangerous.  Cheers  Max
Blimey, didn't know that. I imagine it's something to do with the fibres as can't see it blowing your head off with a kalashnikov. So what is the problem with it then?

PS - Can someone tell me how to get the posters name before the quote please

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From my point of view, unless you are going for a bowling, putting green or manicured lawn, mixing and matching is the way to go, much more natural.

To get a "ferral" patch of waste ground, mix it up lots, a less overgrown area, less mix and match.

Sisal string, untwisted and used plain for dry long grass and dyed for green grass clumps make a good effect too.

Looking good, keep it up.

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pnwood wrote:  PS - Can someone tell me how to get the posters name before the quote please

If you use the quote button it should put the posters name above the quote automatically... just be careful not to delete it while deleting the text in the quote that you don't want.

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pnwood wrote:  
Hi Nick.  I'm going to put up a warning about using carpet underfelt in the Shunters Return.  It can be dangerous.  Cheers  Max
Blimey, didn't know that. I imagine it's something to do with the fibres as can't see it blowing your head off with a kalashnikov. So what is the problem with it then?

PS - Can someone tell me how to get the posters name before the quote please

I can't remember how to do a link to another post, Nick.  Check out the thread in Recent.  Sorry mate.

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pnwood wrote:  
Hi Nick.  I'm going to put up a warning about using carpet underfelt in the Shunters Return.  It can be dangerous.  Cheers  Max
Blimey, didn't know that. I imagine it's something to do with the fibres as can't see it blowing your head off with a kalashnikov. So what is the problem with it then?

PS - Can someone tell me how to get the posters name before the quote please


http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=4751&forum_id=35

. . . how about that - I did it.  Click on that, Nick.

pnwood
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Marty wrote: pnwood wrote:  PS - Can someone tell me how to get the posters name before the quote please

If you use the quote button it should put the posters name above the quote automatically... just be careful not to delete it while deleting the text in the quote that you don't want.


Thanks Marty, I was using the quote tags and copying and pasting, that's much easier and neater.

Max - Thanks, an interesting read and thanks for making us aware. I work in the building maintenance sector which is quite rightly paranoid about asbestos, mdf dust etc, etc but I've not heard any mention of this before. It is almost impossible to find carpet underfelt in the UK these days and my small stock was put aside years ago.

:hmmIn this case where it's not proven, my own thoughts are it is up to the individual to assess the risk from the information available. As the amount I'm likely to use is miniscule (and I know it only takes a small amount to do the damage) I'll probably take that risk but be more inclined to use a mask when working with it, until it is firmly fixed down and loose fibres hoovered up.

Thanks for making us aware and I suggest that everyone reads Max's post and makes their own decision.

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You're welcome, Nick.  I don't know if Hardie's products reached the UK.  They definitely went to the US.

pnwood
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Here's the first structure built for Much Murkle. The weighbridge hut is based on some drawings in an old Ericplans book and is built mainly out of card with scalescenes brick paper. The roof is Slaters slates. The weighbridge deck is from a wills kit .

The windows are made of microstrip but even though I tried very hard, I got glue all over the glazing. For future reference does anyone know a good way of avoiding this. 

Looking at the ridge tiles shows how cruel the camera can be.:sad: 

 




All in all I'm pretty pleased with it.

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Very neat Nick. At first I was going to say - was not keen on the rounded corners but then I remembered as a youngster, seeing houses that had the corners all rounded.

Yes I found that the camera can be cruel.

Last edited on Fri Sep 25th, 2009 07:36 pm by

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I always use sliced white sticky freezer labels for window bars Nick. I then glue the ends of the bars out of sight.

pnwood
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Sol wrote: Very neat Nick. At first I was going to say - was not keen on the rounded corners but then I remembered as a youngster, seeing houses that had the corners all rounded.

Yes I found that the camera can be cruel.


Sol - I would like to say the rounded corners are deliberate but they're a result of not scoring the card deep enough before folding. It doesn't look too bad but it wouldn't look right on every building.

It is a test piece and when I have time I'm going to build the same structure in plasticard to decide which I will use in future. The atrraction with card for me is that it avoid the need to get the paintbrush out :lol:

Whichever medium I decide to use I want to scratchbuild all of the buildings. I've nothing against kit built structures but I took a concious decision that Much Murkle would have structures that were distinct which excludes most kits. I'm quite willing though to use some of the parts from kits ;-) 

 

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Robert wrote: I always use sliced white sticky freezer labels for window bars Nick. I then glue the ends of the tape out of sight.
:hmmWhy can't we all think of these simple solutions?. Thanks Bob I'll give it a try on my next attempt :cheers

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I'm quite willing though to use some of the parts from kits

I do this all the time.
Many model shops / exhibitions have a corner of secondhand 'messed up' or incomplete kit buildings - a ready source of inspiration, too.

I like the rounded corners.
Reminds me of many buildings - often faced with tiles or glazed bricks.

I then glue the ends of the tape out of sight
Which tape is that, Bob?

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Nick,
      That's a very neat job,and I think the curved corners look right,wether or not you intended it!;-)

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Nick,more power to your elbow if you are scratch building all the way,
you have made a good start.

:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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Sorry about that Dolf I have changed the wording in my post about using sticky labels and it now reads :

"I always use sliced white sticky freezer labels for window bars Nick. I then glue the ends of the bars out of sight."

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I have used sticky white freezer labels here for the canopy glazing :



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Sol wrote:  was not keen on the rounded corners

The 1920s  'Standard' GWR brick-built buildings were constructed with bull-nose corners, so it looks like the M.M. crew were 'on the thieve!'

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I also like the rounded corners Nick and I was about to ask how you did it !! :hmm:hmm

Your dead right DD - there were many, many buildings with those corners - often little railway buildings like this weighbridge and again - spot on with the glazed tiles - sometimes white which looked like a public convenience turned inside out !!!!

Bob will love you Nick - another card modeller :thumbs:thumbs

p.s. Thanks for the tip on the freezer labels Bob - the awnings look great.   Lateral thinking again.   :cheers

Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 11:42 am by Petermac

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Have to agree with Nick about the camera being cruel, Maybe there is a good side to this though ,it may make us even more particular about the quality of our work . I though my viaduct on Blossom Hill was passable ,but having seen it from the camera point of view it could and should be a lot better .  Reminds me of school "must try harder":shock:

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Robert wrote: I have used sticky white freezer labels here for the canopy glazing
I woz gonna tell'em you did that!  I believe it was done at Pendon, too.

Much of this glazing/glue problem goes back to the fact that the thin transparency stuff doesn't glue with MEK .  Where the slightly increased thickness is not a problem, the clear plastic from CD cases, which glues well with solvent glues, does a good job, and lends some strength to the job, as here where there is little to support the single thickness card over the double door. It also scratches nicely to give a good impression of a cracked pane. The frames are cut from matt photo paper, laid in place and a little MEK run underneath to bind it to the plastic.


Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:13 pm by Chubber

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Please tell me that's not a model Doof !!! :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

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Sorry Doof but we have warned you before about posting pictures of real things and claiming they are models :twisted:

The fine is to send one of these buildings to a moderator based in Cornwall but not one of the ones on the seaside...

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It's even got broken bicks - and bricks missing :exclam:exclam  . . . unfair Ref :exclam

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If thats a model then i am giving up and have Doof make all my scenery for me.

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Christrerise wrote: Sorry Doof but we have warned you before about posting pictures of real things and claiming they are models :twisted:

The fine is to send one of these buildings to a moderator based in Cornwall but not one of the ones on the seaside...

No, don't send it to a moderator in the UK but to a Mod down under, in the middle of Australia, just where I live, will do. :mrgreen:

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Oi you lot isn't there a law against hijacking :It's a no no:lol::lol::lol:

Doof, that is some seriously good modelling but please keep your pics of my thread because they make me feel totally inadequate :cry: ;-) :lol:

Ok all of you, I've been convinced that the rounded corners may after all look ok. I can't do anything about the windows on this model now as they are glued in place and sandwiched between two skins of cardboard. Building construction work has stopped at Much Murkle for now while the horticulturists move in to lay some grass and undergrowth. I'm going away for a few days later this week and will post some more pics when I get back.

 

 

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pnwood wrote: Oi you lot isn't there a law against hijacking :It's a no no:lol::lol::lol:


 

 

I have told them time and time again Nick but nobody takes any notice of me at all but I'll sort 'em one of these days. :twisted:  :twisted:   :twisted:

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pnwood wrote:
Doof, that is some seriously good modelling but please keep your pics of my thread because they make me feel totally inadequate :cry: ;-) :lol:


 

 

You are not alone with that feeling - I am almost tempted to give up modelling and take up something else when I see that sort of standard - question is what ? :sad:

pnwood
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In the last few days, I've made a start on the goods shed for MM. The dimensions are from the shed at Princetown which is of a similar design to the sheds at Culkerton, Coleford and Camarthen.  

It is made of laminated card and only loosely assembled hence the big gaps in the corners. There's still lots to do, not least the roof. There is an office building and railside loading platform still to build.  




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Nick

That looks good, what have you used for the windows, they look like etchings ? like the inside chimney detail and is that Scalescenes paper that you have used

:thumbs

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Alan wrote: Nick

That looks good, what have you used for the windows, they look like etchings ? like the inside chimney detail and is that Scalescenes paper that you have used

:thumbs


Hi Alan

The windows are lined using a Correction Fluid pen straight onto some clear acetate. It take a bit of practice to get a decent result but is quite effective and yes, all the papers are Salescenes, well spotted.

I've started a thread in the scratchbuilding to log progress on the goods shed that I hope might be of interest to some folk.

 

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pnwood wrote:

I've started a thread in the scratchbuilding to log progress on the goods shed that I hope might be of interest to some folk.

 

Deffo interested in this one!  Huzzah for card and paper!!:doublethumb

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Looking good Nick.

I will be trying the HB fibres now.

Regards,

John.

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dooferdog wrote: pnwood wrote:

I've started a thread in the scratchbuilding to log progress on the goods shed that I hope might be of interest to some folk.

 

Deffo interested in this one!  Huzzah for card and paper!!:doublethumb

Yes doing my bit for the environment, sustainable modelling :thumbs

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All has been said mate, a great bit of modeling.

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I can't believe it been nearly four months since I updated what's been happening at Much Murkle. :oops:

I've been busy building structures which some of you may have followed on the scratchbuilding forum. It's about time that I showed how these will integrate into the layout. so here are some views of how the layout looks today.

View from the Cider House sidings approach to the station and goods yard. 



The goods shed with an interloper from the eLluva MesS



View into the station throat from under the bridge.



Across the goods yard to the station building. Weighbridge in the background.


Pannier tank running round.... errr... nothing



Pannier about to take on water. Coaling stage, coal office and coal cells are all legacies from an old long gone layout that never got finished and are just on the layout for nowto show where things will be. These will all be replaced before too long.




That's it for now. Hope it doesn't take another 4 months to do the next update :cheers



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Wow Nick, you are coming right along. I really like that first photo. It looks like you have the camera sitting right down on the track.

Sure is looking good Nick!

Wayne

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Excellent, Nick.  As per usual.  :thumbs

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thanks for the update Nick,looking really good ,keep em coming.

:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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Thanks for the encouragement guys, it's appreciated. I'll keep posting photos as and when things change on the layout, perhaps with a bit more stock about in the future.

Wayne Williams wrote:
I really like that first photo. It looks like you have the camera sitting right down on the track.Wayne

It is Wayne :lol::lol::lol:

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They're all excellent shots Nick - difficult to pick a favourite but along with Wayne, I really like the first shot.  But then I also like the third one, and the forth, and the goods shed in the second one also looks great..........and that one of the station building is quite something as well.............................:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

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Lovely photos and a super layout, I really like the spacious look of it. :doublethumb

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If you photoshopped some sky in the top picture and did it B+W I reckon it would look pretty realistic.  More, please.

Doug

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Any one can do sky, how about some fields?  Tee hee, hope you like it.

Doug


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That "shopped" one isn't eligible for "Member's Choice" unfortunately.  :cry::cry::cry::cry:

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dooferdog wrote:
Any one can do sky, how about some fields?  Tee hee, hope you like it.

Doug




That's brilliant Doug:thumbs

Thing is, compare the bridge in the background you have photoshopped in with the one in my final photo and there is a striking similarity. Uncanny, :It's a no no but it's not Herefordshire!!!!

I can't believe how Much Murkle is starting to take shape when I see the photos especially when they have been 'improved' by someone who knows what they are doing. Just goes to show that the camera does lie :lol::lol::lol:

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Those shots remind me of sunny evenings and make me want to take a walk by the tracks:thumbs 

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I've just had Winston visit Much Murkle and realised that i haven't updated the thread for over two months. So here's a new set of photos to show progress so far.

Looking from the Cider house branch the station and yard area are starting to take shape. Fencing has been erected but none of the buildings are fixed as there is still some detailing work to do on all of them. I'm not sure if I will keep both the conical water tower and the water crane at the end of the platform. One idea is to keep just the conical tower and the other is to keep just the water crane and have a seperate brick built water tower opposite the signal box. I wouldn't mind some views on this. 



Another view of the station and goods yard from under the bridge



Looking back to the bridge, there is plenty of scenic work to do here.




A similar view but showing the Cider house Branch leading of to the right. The Cider house board which will incorporate the fiddle yard still has to be built !!!



There are some more piccies to come :cheers



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Lovely mate.

Phill

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How come I missed this layout.....GWR branch and everything???

Excellent work Nick...........you have done a super job with the the Scalescene Paper.......I really like the Goods Shed.....how did you do the valance?

Regarding the water cranes..........I had a similar dilemma on Granby and settled for a crane at the end of the platform and a conical tank by the Engine Shed............a tank would have done equally well but looked oversize on my layout.

I dont think one would see a conical tank and a crane on the same platform...........so my vote is either conical tank alone or crane and then supply tank by signal box (assuming you dont have a shed siding in which case my solution would be ok)

Hope that helps

Kind Regards from Vancouver

 

 

 

 

 

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Nick,
      If it were me,I'd go for the supply tank where the conical jobby is now,and somehow shorten the height of the water crane and mount it ON the platform,rather than just off the end of it.
Whatever you choose,I'm sure it'll look good!
:hmm
Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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John Dew wrote:
How come I missed this layout.....GWR branch and everything???

Excellent work Nick...........you have done a super job with the the Scalescene Paper.......I really like the Goods Shed.....how did you do the valance?

Regarding the water cranes..........I had a similar dilemma on Granby and settled for a crane at the end of the platform and a conical tank by the Engine Shed............a tank would have done equally well but looked oversize on my layout.

I dont think one would see a conical tank and a crane on the same platform...........so my vote is either conical tank alone or crane and then supply tank by signal box (assuming you dont have a shed siding in which case my solution would be ok)

Hope that helps

Kind Regards from Vancouver
 


Hi John
The Goods Shed valence is plastic. The packaging has long gone but it was a Slaters product if my memory serves me right.

I don't intend to have both the conical tower and the crane, but am having difficulty in deciding which to keep. I might try the conical tower at the end of the platform to see how it looks as an alternative.

Last edited on Wed Apr 21st, 2010 06:52 pm by pnwood

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Hi John B

:hmm A separate tower with a platform mounted crane rather than at the end might be worth a look at. Thanks for that.

Last edited on Wed Apr 21st, 2010 06:54 pm by pnwood

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Nick,
      Its just that a lot of the GWR water cranes I've seen in old pictures and on preserved GWR lines are on the platforms,and for the water tank supply,you have the option of either one on 4 legs as at Perranporth,or ones on a brick base...both common GWR types.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

P.S.If you need any reference pictures,give us a shout and I'll try to root some out for you.


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Thanks for the offer of photos John, I'll bear that in mind for the future when I finally get round to deciding which way to go. I'm leaning towards the conical tower at the moment as Much Murkle is such a small terminus I don't think it can justify having a substantial structure.

Anyway to digress here are some more photos, again proving there is much scenic work still to do.

The coal bins. The area enclosed by the retaining wall will house the coal merchants office. This hasn't been built yet as I can't decide between a brick built or timber hut. I suppose that having gone to the expense of building a retaining wall then the office should really be in brick too.



A close up of the coal bins. These were made out of strips of balsa wood and painted grey with washes of black to give a really grimy look. The coal is real, stuck onto polystyrene formers with pva glue.



As you can see lots of work to do on the banks behind.

I'll post some more up in a couple of days as I'm of up to London now to see the Australian Pink Floyd at the 02 Arena tonight.

 

:cheers


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Not often I actually 'study' a picture of a model coal pile, but that got several coats of 'lookin'at'.*
Very realistic mini-scene.


Doug


* An old Chief Petty Officer Shipwright I knew would reply when reluctant to respond to any demand to improve the appearance of something or other would reply 'Aye, Sir, I'll give it several coats of 'Lookin' at' and that would usually be the last said about it!



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Those coal bins look the bees knees Nick :thumbs  There could be an argument that, having forked out for the brick retaining wall, there wasn't enough cash left over for a brick shed !!  I think a timber shed would look great - with "vertical" planking rather than horzontal - if you get what I mean :roll::roll:  It could even be sawn old railway timbers.

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Nick,

I haven't been on for a while, so have just just seen your updated photos. It looks superb.

Craig

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Those coal staithes are the business...I'd definately go for brick with the coal office,but very weathered and coal-dusty!! I've seen hundreds of coal staithes on hundreds of layouts,but those really stand out.Cracking job!
  Don't forget to weather the retaining wall too.Then a few little detailing bits and bobs...it'll look just like the real deal.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Nick,

I've pm'd you a photo of Witney coal office/weighbridge if that helps, i.e. if I've done it right!

Doug

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Hi everyone and thanks for the kind comments

DD - Thanks for the photo and I'm going to steal 'several coats of lookin at' and use it myself ;-)

Petermac - You are right about the vertical planking but I would like some brick in there as well, so maybe a low brick base and brick chimney. Just need to do some googling to find a suitable prototype to base it on.

John B - I agree that the retaining wall and whatever structure goes there needs to be weathered. along with blackened vegetation around the same area. Detailing is a task that I'm looking forward to but there are many more basic things to get finished first.

Craig - Hi and glad you are liking Much Murkle.

:cheers 

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Another update.

This is the station and yard entrance. The weighbridge and yard office was my first scratchbuilt building for Much Murkle and it shows. It may eventually have to be replaced by as it is definitely not to the same standard as the goods shed, although it is still a nice little building. The yard gates are temporary until I make something a little more suitable. Fencing needs 'stringing', protection rails alongside the weighbridge, vegetation, backboards are just some of the jobs still to do. But.... it is starting to look like a model railway of sorts.



A couple of views looking down the goods yard entrance. Wood Bros, Agricultural merchants on the right.





A view looking the other way. Backboards and a backscene will eventually make a difference to improving the look of the layout




:cheers



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Hi Nick.    There are some big gaps in what I know about UK railways.  Can you tell us (me) about the coal staiths.  The lumps look a bit big for locos and they are low down, so it probably wouldn't be shovelled in anyway.  So are they dumped there for say, a lorry to come and deliver them?

It's all looking good.  :thumbs

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MaxSouthOz wrote:
Hi Nick.    There are some big gaps in what I know about UK railways.  Can you tell us (me) about the coal staiths.  The lumps look a bit big for locos and they are low down, so it probably wouldn't be shovelled in anyway.  So are they dumped there for say, a lorry to come and deliver them?

It's all looking good.  :thumbs


Hi Max, there's some big gaps in my knowledge of UK railways too but I'll give it a shot at explaining the use of coal bins / staithes in the days before mechanisation.

The type I've built are for domestic coal. Coal would be delivered to the station yard usually in 7 plank wooden wagons and shunted to the area of the yard used by the local coal merchant. Because they would have to pay for the wagon whilst it remained in the yard getting, the coal offloaded quickly was a priority.

Some had their own coal yards off site and would shovel coal from the wagon directly into sacks onto carts or latterly lorries standing alongside. Others who rented space and operated their business from the station yard would place bins or staithes such as the ones I've built alongside the siding and offload their coal directly into them. Their coal could then be bagged and sent out on the rounds when required. Everything was moved by hand, labour was cheap in those days.

As far as the size of the lumps go I don't think it would be unusual to have a wide variation in size in a load and occasionally some very large pieces of coal. The merchant would probably break up the bigger lumps before distributing to customers. My piles of coal probably have too many of the larger size but it doesn't look quite so bad in real life as it does in a photo.

Loco coal is another matter altogether. In small stations with some sort of servicing facility for the engines, coal would usually be held on some sort of platform or stage and would maybe have a small hoist with a bucket into which coal could be shovelled and then lifted into the engine's bunker if the crew were lucky. If not then it would have to be shovelled directly into the bunker.

Hope this helps and if I've got anything wrong then I stand to be corrected.

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I think the coal looks very realistic.
Well, it would being real coal.

Very good work, Nick. Look forward to further updates.

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A very nice layout, I like the feeling of space in those shots along the line. Also good attention to detail makes all the difference, such as the little retaining wall behind the buffers at the goods yard entrance. Keep the pictures coming, they are very nice to look at.

Bob(K)

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Thanks for that, Nick.  It was very interesting.  Your staithes look just as I would have imagined them to be from that explanation.  Most appreciated.  :thumbs

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Wooden hut with vertical planks and brick chimney....certainly Sir, is this what you had in mind?



http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=5695&forum_id=136


and manual coal handling-from the Lambourne site

http://www.lambournvalleyrailway.co.uk/pages/Bodmans/bodmans.htm

Last edited on Mon Apr 26th, 2010 03:51 pm by Chubber

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Hi Doug

That hut is not quite what I had in mind, looks more like a platelayers hut than a coal office but thanks for posting it. I have in my mind what I want but I haven't found a photo of a suitable prototype yet.

I saw that website on the Lambourn Valley Railway it's an excellent resource and that page in particular has lots of photos which show how coal was handled. I hope that the sacks they hired out to local farmers for the harvest season were not the same ones that were used for the "nutty slack" the rest of the year :shock:

By the way Lambourn does not have an 'e' on the end. The locals are very touchy about it ;-)

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pnwood wrote: ...........................................................................I hope that the sacks they hired out to local farmers for the harvest season were not the same ones that were used for the "nutty slack" the rest of the year :shock:

.......................................................

Funny they should mention hiring hessian sacks to farmers Nick.

When I was a tender youth in my teens, the Railway hired 16 stone hessian sacks to the local farmers.  They came to the nearest station in a box van, the farmers having been informed of the time of arrival.  The porter - in our case he was also the signalman - would throw these bundles of 20 sacks out, all very clean and tied with "baler twine", onto the platform whilst the train waited.  There might have been 100 bundles or more on the platform (and they were heavy) with all the farmers lined up like a soup kitchen waiting for their allocation.  We'd load our "order" onto a tractor and trailer and head off home ready for threshing day.  They were naturally called "Railway Sacks".  Once filled with their 16 stones of wheat (the only cereal which actually had to be sold off the farm to get the subsidy), they were loaded onto the tractor and trailer again and taken back to the station for transport to (in our case in East Yorkshire) either Rank Hovis McDougal or Spillers.  No 25kg weight limit in those days !!  Wheat was bagged in 16 stones (100 kgs) for sale and barley, oats and beans were threshed into "bags full".  As this usually stayed on the farm for animal feed, you just filled the bag so you didn't have to hire so many.  18 to 20 stones in each bag was quite normal on threshing days.  Then you had to carry it up the granary steps to the first floor on your back !!!!

I have absolutely no idea how they kept track of their whereabouts but, once they had arrived at the flour millers, they were "signed off" our account and became the responsibility of the miller.  They were usually hired (in bundles) by the week.

Ahh - the good old days. :hmm:hmm:hmm

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Peter et al,

Look here

http://www.wantage.com/museum/Local_History/Sacks%20for%20Hire.pdf

There was a navy-blue enamel sign on a barn near Nether Wallop that I wanted, but someone beat me to it!

Doug

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Also, from the freebie Hornby goods store...in 'tatty' condition, tinplate corners etc




The 'tar-paper' roof is done by printing onto a piece of watercolour paper, then very lightly sanding it with fine W&D paper to give the fluffy texture, then cutting joint lines open with a scalpel and peeling them back a bit.


Hope these signs help if anyone is interested, Apologies for the semi-hi-jack, too.

Doug

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Absolutely no apologies necessary for me Doug - a fascinating and memory jogging link - exactly as I remember it - and some bits I'd forgotten. :thumbs:thumbs

Also, a superb little building - you'll be doing a complete :roll::roll::roll: "how I did it" on another thread no doubt...................................

OK Nick - you can have your thread back now - you'll get used to us "oldies" getting carried away from time to time.............:oops::oops::oops::cheers

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Petermac wrote: pnwood wrote: ...........................................................................I hope that the sacks they hired out to local farmers for the harvest season were not the same ones that were used for the "nutty slack" the rest of the year :shock:

.......................................................

Funny they should mention hiring hessian sacks to farmers Nick.

When I was a tender youth in my teens, the Railway hired 16 stone hessian sacks to the local farmers.  They came to the nearest station in a box van, the farmers having been informed of the time of arrival.  The porter - in our case he was also the signalman - would throw these bundles of 20 sacks out, all very clean and tied with "baler twine", onto the platform whilst the train waited.  There might have been 100 bundles or more on the platform (and they were heavy) with all the farmers lined up like a soup kitchen waiting for their allocation.  We'd load our "order" onto a tractor and trailer and head off home ready for threshing day.  They were naturally called "Railway Sacks".  Once filled with their 16 stones of wheat (the only cereal which actually had to be sold off the farm to get the subsidy), they were loaded onto the tractor and trailer again and taken back to the station for transport to (in our case in East Yorkshire) either Rank Hovis McDougal or Spillers.  No 25kg weight limit in those days !!  Wheat was bagged in 16 stones (100 kgs) for sale and barley, oats and beans were threshed into "bags full".  As this usually stayed on the farm for animal feed, you just filled the bag so you didn't have to hire so many.  18 to 20 stones in each bag was quite normal on threshing days.  Then you had to carry it up the granary steps to the first floor on your back !!!!

I have absolutely no idea how they kept track of their whereabouts but, once they had arrived at the flour millers, they were "signed off" our account and became the responsibility of the miller.  They were usually hired (in bundles) by the week.

Ahh - the good old days. :hmm:hmm:hmm


 

One of the positions that Dad held when he worked for British Railways when he was alive  was "Sack Representative" for the Bristol Division  of Western Region . I had no idea up to then just how big the quantity of sacks used by railway customers was , it must have run into millions . Not that I ever saw many  - just a few that were " borrowed for the schools sports day sack races.

Last edited on Thu Aug 26th, 2010 04:29 pm by Wheeltapper

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Nick

I know you have not done a lot of modelling  lately but I have to say I find your work inspirational and would dearly like to see some more progress results on the layout.

Bear in mind that I do tend to nag when I want to see something as Petermac and John Dew will no doubt testify to - so it would possibly be a good idea to give in gracefully .:eek::twisted::roll:

Last edited on Thu Aug 26th, 2010 04:37 pm by Wheeltapper

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He's right Nick :thumbs

I'd go quietly if I were you. :cheers

Interesting that your Dad worked in the "railway sack department" Richard.  I don't know if you're the same but I always remember the past with fondness.  I'm sure there must have been times when life really was tough but the brain is wonderful at blocking most "unpleasant" things out - "traumatic" things are of course, a totally different matter.

I can picture many scenes from my youth connected with farming and "railway sacks" just as if it were yesterday. :cool wink

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Wheeltapper wrote:
Nick

I know you have not done a lot of modelling  lately but I have to say I find your work inspirational and would dearly like to see some more progress results on the layout.

Bear in mind that I do tend to nag when I want to see something as Petermac and John Dew will no doubt testify to - so it would possibly be a good idea to give in gracefully .:eek::twisted::roll:



Thanks for the kind words Richard.

Even though I haven't done anything for a while there has been a little more progress since the last lot of photos. I'll try and take some more pictures soon and post them up.

Enthusiasm is starting to return and I've just bought some Woodland Scenics foliage from Chris at KMRC (what an efficient service by the way) so you may see some activity before long especially when the nights start to draw in a bit. ;-)

:It's a no no Petermac, my wife will testify that I don't do anything or go anywhere quietly :lol:

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Off Topic but replying further to Petermacs post ...........................

Dad spent all his working life on the railway or associated with it apart from WW2 and a spell in the RAF.

Starting off as  a Junior Booking Office Clerk on the LMS (his dad was a signalman on the LNER in the same town)  he held various positions  which included Sack Representative , Schools Representative , Passenger Representative (both of  which  latter posts involved a lot of PR and Publicity work and jobs such as organsing special  and excursion trains and user surveys such as one he did on the Severn Tunnel Car Ferry Service and the Motorail and Sleeper servives to Scotland from the West Country). He eventually climbed the promotion ladder to become a Superindendent for Goods Stafff in the West of England and finally carried on that post for a short while for National Carriers when the Goods  Delivery services were split from the Railway.

One of the main reasons I got interested in railways at an early age was that on a number of occasions he would take me with him when he was working and then of course there was the Free Travel Passes  or Privilige Staff Familes Tickets so we virtually went everywhere any distance by train.

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pnwood wrote: By the way Lambourn does not have an 'e' on the end. The locals are very touchy about it ;-)
As touchy as we are about people putting a u in Camborne!

Sorry about the rapid service, something must have gone wrong.  I have warned them all before about being helpful, it only encourages people.:roll:

We all have fits and bursts of enthusiasm, so to hear yours is returning is great and we have more updates to look forward to. :thumbs

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woteesaid, you've a lovely little layout in the making there, looking forward to seeing more of it develop.
cheers

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I found some time this afternoon to take a few more photos.

First up a couple of shots of the fencing and undergrowth behind the coal bins.

 




A view down the station approach, again fencing, static grass and weeds. Eventually a hedge and more undergrowth will be planted behind the fence.



The end of the line








and finally a couple of shots of the goods yard and platform





:cheers


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A great set of pictures . I really like the well used  and slightly decrepit look of that boundary fence and the curved end of the platform to the buffer stop is excellent.

Keep up the good work now you are getting your enthusiasm back . Looking forward to lots more updates :thumbs:thumbs

 

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Wheeltapper wrote: A great set of pictures . I really like the well used  and slightly decrepit look of that boundary fence and the curved end of the platform to the buffer stop is excellent.

Keep up the good work now you are getting your enthusiasm back . Looking forward to lots more updates :thumbs:thumbs

 


Woteesed!

D

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Now I'm biased towards God's Wonderful Railway,as everyone on here knows,but I do really like the modelling work that's gone into this layout so far,and I would even say that if it were an LNER layout!!.....(no I wouldn't...:lol:)
   The work thats gone into the platforms and station building in particular rank amongst some of the best I've seen anywhere....so come on pal...get cracking on with it.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs


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Agreed - very good.

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Wheeltapper wrote:
I really like the well used  and slightly decrepit look of that boundary fence and the curved end of the platform to the buffer stop is excellent. 


It's possible that the fence looks decrepit because of my inadequate modelling skills and the platform is curved because I can't cut a straight line :lol::lol::lol:

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Well yes that could be true but its the end result that matters , not how you got there and the end result in this case is just right .

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Well, time for another update. Some of you will know that I've been busy these last few days constructing a little coal office but my thoughts have turned to the last of the main structures on the end board, the water tower.

Earlier in the thread I posted this picture which shows a Ratio conical water tower temporarily placed into position . 




I started the construction of this tower about 15 years ago for an earlier layout but neither the tower or the layout was ever finished. However unlike the layout the tower survived.

Looking at this shot I decided that I didn't like the tower as it stood as it was too dominant. I hunted through my drawers (oh, er missus) and found the remaining parts for the kit and found that apart from various etched brass detailing parts there was also a flat top for a different version of the tower. So I spent some time yesterday taking a razor saw to the tank to remove the conical top and reduce the height of the tank to about 2/3rd of its depth, adding the ladders and chains etc and giving it a repaint. I'm quite pleased with the result but unfortunately didn't take any photos as I went along.

I'll take some pictures of the finished tower tomorrow and post.

:cheers 

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As promised, here's the revamped water tower in all its glory, compare it with the photo in the previous post.



The base will be covered in some scatter so don't take too much notice of it. 

For DD's benefit the basic dimensions are : base to underside of tank - 78mm,  height of tank - 36mm (ratio standard is 48mm), diameter of tank - 40mm,  length of arm from the flange - 45mm.

This is my first attempt at weathering so comments would be appreciated. Here's a view of the top.



A close up of the tank and level gauge.




and finally the fire devil






 

Last edited on Mon Oct 11th, 2010 10:32 am by pnwood

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Hello Nick,
Very nice adaptation of the original Water-Tower - level and fire-devil look great,
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

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Just caught up with the thread again Nick...........great progress.........I love those shots of the end of the station with the buffers etc.....could be straight out of one of Stephen William's books......well done indeed

Nice job on the water tower as well.....I have the conical top version but having seen yours I am not sure I dont prefer the flat top

Regards

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That water tower looks excellent. To answer your question regarding the weathering, I think that too looks very effective, particularly the rusty top of the tank. Overall a really nice conversion.

Bob(K)

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Michael, John and Bob, thanks for your kind comments.

"could be straight out of one of Stephen William's books.."   I wish John!!!!!  Steve's books have been extensively read and ideas used but I could never hope to reach his high standards. :sad:

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Very nice layout and some good attention to detail.

pnwood
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I have a small dilema chaps that I could use your valued opinions to resolve.

The obvious position for siting this water tower is shown in the photo below. This is where I've always planned it to be, the path leads to it and it fills the gap between the headshunt and the goods shed road quite nicely.




However, I can see some merit in moving the location further down the run round loop to here...


This seems to me to give a bit more balance to the scene with the major structures spread across the site rather than all being bunched at one end. Thoughts please

The next question is either one of the locations more prototypically correct? 

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Nick,
      I'd go with the 1st location,apart from the path leading to it,a loco would fill up there prior to running round on its train for the return journey.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

P.S. Very nice job on the conversion,btw!!:pathead


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Well I checked Stephen Williams and he has all these track plans in Part One but doesnt mention the location water towers/tanks

So I checked Paul Karau's GW Branch Line Termini which has detailed track plans for a number of termini however virtually all of them have (or originally had) an Engine Shed in which case the water tank or tower was adjacent to the shed often sited so that it could serve the shed siding and the line............re reading your thread I dont think you are planning a shed......if you are I think the tower has to be near it.........if you are not then I think your first option is the best and is almost identical to Lambourn in 1948 (after the shed was removed. There is a photo on Page 46 of Williams Part 2 

HTH..........regards

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I don't know if you plan to run tender locos but in option 1 there wouldn't be enough room to get the bag into the tender if it ran chimney first into the station - option 2 seems much more feasible to me.

Last edited on Mon Oct 11th, 2010 02:54 pm by

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Hello Nick,

                Option 2, mate, as you would be able "to water" locomotives on both secondary-tracks. Coal-Staithes should be close-by and yard-crane adjacent. Just my immediate thoughts, Nick,

                                                                                Kind Regards,

                                                                           Michael Thornberry.

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This is going to be a nice layout once all the technicalities are sorted out. I like it a lot.

Only one small piece of constructive criticism and that is it's much too clean! I think your track needs a bit of weathering. Not too many weeds mind, The GWR would never have countenanced weed infested track!

Cheers!

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Fidge wrote: I don't know if you plan to run tender locos but in option 1 there wouldn't be enough room to get the bag into the tender if it ran chimney first into the station - option 2 seems much more feasible to me.
Oops missed that:oops::oops:

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Lovely job on the water tower, Nick. I went with the flat top too, but I never finished it, so thanks for showing me how it might have looked :lol:

Mike

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I'd go for the second option too, mainly for the 'tender' question, apart from the artistic question of having everything 'bunged up one end'.

As your goods shed has only a small platform, could the area served by the little path could feature a small wooden platform like the one below for dropping things off that are soon to be collected?  Maybe it could be a bit 'pointy' at one end to go into the vee of the trackwork?





I do like this thread!

Doug

Last edited on Tue Oct 12th, 2010 06:36 am by Chubber

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Thanks for the opinions on the water tower location but it's inconclusive. Tender engines are not a problem as the biggest one I have or will run is a 43xx mogul and it has plenty of room. Other considerations I've thought if I go for option 2 are it reduces the goods yard area and leaves a big space at location 1 that needs filling with something.

There isn't going to be an engine shed, it is assumed to be beyond the bridge, however I was thinking of having another water crane at the other end of the platform near the cattle dock where the coaling stage will eventually be.

Is this likely or would there have only been one watering point at such a small terminus as this?

pnwood
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dooferdog wrote:
I'd go for the second option too, mainly for the 'tender' question, apart from the artistic question of having everything 'bunged up one end'.

As your goods shed has only a small platform, could the area served by the little path could feature a small wooden platform like the one below for dropping things off that are soon to be collected?  Maybe it could be a bit 'pointy' at one end to go into the vee of the trackwork?





I do like this thread!

Doug


Doug
I like your platform and will give the idea some thought if I decide to move the water tower further down the loop.

I have already planned and have started building a slightly hacked version of the Scalescenes small shed (shed reduced in width a bit) with an additional length of timber platform to extend further along the goods shed road. Funnily enough it was looking back through this thread and seeing your West of England Sack Company version that gave me the idea. ;-)

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pnwood wrote:
There isn't going to be an engine shed, it is assumed to be beyond the bridge, however I was thinking of having another water crane at the other end of the platform near the cattle dock where the coaling stage will eventually be.

Is this likely or would there have only been one watering point at such a small terminus as this?


I didnt know about the coaling stage. It would be both logical and prototypical to have a water supply there. In fact you may be better to assume there is no engine shed beyond the bridge.........if there were there would certainly be a water tower adjacent and then you would have three water points (one off scene) which is highly unlikely.

Dont know if that helps or confuses!

Regards

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John Dew wrote:
pnwood wrote:
There isn't going to be an engine shed, it is assumed to be beyond the bridge, however I was thinking of having another water crane at the other end of the platform near the cattle dock where the coaling stage will eventually be.

Is this likely or would there have only been one watering point at such a small terminus as this?


I didnt know about the coaling stage. It would be both logical and prototypical to have a water supply there. In fact you may be better to assume there is no engine shed beyond the bridge.........if there were there would certainly be a water tower adjacent and then you would have three water points (one off scene) which is highly unlikely.

Dont know if that helps or confuses!

Regards


Ah! But I didn't say how far beyond the bridge, John;-):lol:

Lets assume that it is a mile or so down the line near Much Murkle quarry.

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Dukedog wrote: This is going to be a nice layout once all the technicalities are sorted out. I like it a lot.

Only one small piece of constructive criticism and that is it's much too clean! I think your track needs a bit of weathering. Not too many weeds mind, The GWR would never have countenanced weed infested track!

Cheers!


Thank you Frank, constructive criticism is always welcome, especially from someone with your experience. 

The track has been weathered, rails sides painted and ballast dirtied, maybe it doesn't show up too well on the photos. Maybe this earlier one shows it better.


The yard surface does need a bit more weathering but again it is not quite as light as it shows in the photos. There is a lot of work still to do on the scenic details yet and apart from the weathereing on the water tower I've yet to pluck up the courage to do the buildings which are also far too clean.

:cheers

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Since the last update, I've decided that the water tower definitely stays near the goods shed. I've been adding a bit of ground cover and vegetation since I got back from holiday and things are starting to take shape. My enthusiasm has definitely returned with a vengeance. ;-)

Looking down the goods yard entrance road




Looks like there's 'elL of a MesS in the goods yard.



Wood Bros need to get that fence repaired



An overgrown corner




The weighbridge, I'm thinking of scrapping this building as my techniques have improved so much in the last year or so and this was my first scratchbuilt building and it shows.



I need to make the backboard to go behind the fence on the left. The water tower needs bedding in.



A similar shot to the one above



High level view towards the station exit.



I had to climb on Wood Bros roof to take this one.

 

And the station roof for this one.

 


Hope you enjoy the update. :cheers


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enjoy we certainly did,all coming together nicely , keep the pics coming !

:doublethumb:lol::cool:

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 Some excellent shots there, i love all the foliage :doublethumb

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Absolutely, Kev.  Definitely some headerfoter condenders there.  :thumbs

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Out of the latest pictures I particularly like the damaged fence and the greenery over it, keep it coming, inspiring stuff :thumbs

Doug

Last edited on Tue Nov 2nd, 2010 04:03 pm by Chubber

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dooferdog wrote: Out of the latest pictures I particularly like the damaged fence and the greenery over it, keep it coming, inspiring stuff :thumbs

Doug

In the words of a Camborne kid - Woteesed !

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Looks great with all the veg!

Do you have any figures to add?

Mike

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All good stuff.

Perhaps give some thought to Doug's cardboard oil drums and workbench - they are brilliant.

Lots of interest on this thread.

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MikeC wrote: Looks great with all the veg!

Do you have any figures to add?

Mike


Figures for this age are difficult...modern representations of the period figures are too brightly coloured [IMHO]...

I believe the Dapol figures are O.K. for period, easily adapted etc but need painting. S*d of a job!

For instance, I've never seen B+W pictures of engine/yard crews where the jackets matched the 'trews', but resolutely the commercial models churn them all out in the same 'new' set of tops and bottoms.

[Unless anyone knows different...]


On the other hand look at Shaftesbury, modern setting, modern colours...Result!


Doug

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Thanks everyone it's good to get encouraging comments.

Mike - I have a few but they are mainly the old airfix / dapol figures and not really suitable for what I want to use. In time I may try and alter some of them into different poses. Some better figures are on my Warley shopping list. :thumbs

The layout isn't really ready for figures just yet though as I still have quite a bit to do on this board. Then I have the second board to "vegetate" and then I still have to build the fiddle yard :brickwall

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Hoo yeah! Coming along very nicely.
A light dusting of weathering poweders on that passenger platform might break up the "new look".

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Loved that string of photos Nick......looks good.

I particularly admire the goods shed.

Regards 

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This is really excellent scenic modelling Nick and very enjoyable to watch.

Although they still have to be painted, Monty's Models do some excellent people, your period included, although they are metal and a bit pricey. Having said that I believe you dont want many, this is a country station in the days when railways were as much a service to the community as a profit making business andpopulating it with too many people could be OTT.   Just the odd passenger, railwayman and workman would be sufficient in my eyes.:thumbs

Les

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Hi Marty - Yes you are right the platform does need toning down and it will be done in due course.

John - Very pleased that you like the Goods Shed. The build was detailed on this thread if you are interested in seeing more of it http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=4854&forum_id=14&page=1

Les - Thanks for the info, I was going to check out Monty's Models figures when visiting the Warley show later this month. My thoughts are the same as your, it only need a few strategically placed.  PS - I voted for your layout in the NRM Competition;-)

Here's another photo after I installed the yard gates.




:cheers

  

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Thanks Nick - thats two votes then.

That last picture is a lovely shot.:thumbs

Les

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pnwood wrote: The weighbridge, I'm thinking of scrapping this building as my techniques have improved so much in the last year or so and this was my first scratchbuilt building and it shows.





Weighbridge Mark II is now complete




It needs a coat of matt varnish before bedding it in to the surroundings.

:cheers

 

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Super shot Nick. I really like the way you have bedded in, and weathered, the weigh bridge itself.  Somehow your photos convey a  wonderful sense of a sleepy English country lane in the middle of summer......I keep looking for the pub :lol:

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John Dew wrote: Super shot Nick. I really like the way you have bedded in, and weathered, the weigh bridge itself.  Somehow your photos convey a  wonderful sense of a sleepy English country lane in the middle of summer......I keep looking for the pub :lol:
Thanks John, :hmmand as for the pub, who knows maybe one will appear some day ;-)

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With the basic scenery nearly finished on board 1, I thought it was about time I made a start on getting board 2 up to the same level.

 

I've been putting this off because I was not happy with the fiddle yard end of this board and couldn't decide how best to approach it.

This old picture shows the exit to the fiddle yard under the bridge and the private industry line going through a cutting onto the next board. This is the bit that was causing me problems. The road over the bridge turns at 90 degrees and looks odd. I'd originally intended the cutting to be rock faced but came to the conclucion it just doesn't look right. 




I still want the road to turn through 90 degrees and lead to the industry (Cider House) but decided another bridge over the cutting would look better. So some major surgery was necessary to incorporate the retaining walls and bridge. Unfortunately I got carried away and forgot to take any photos until everything was patched back together. The extent of the rework has just been painted brown before flocking




A bridge was knocked up in card and Scalescenes paper. I wanted a very different style to the other bridge. This is meant to be a country lane joining the B road going over the fiddle yard bridge at a T junction on the 90 degree bend, so a smaller more rustic style was called for.



I don't know quite what the civil engineers would say to a bridge being suspended in mid - air by a couple of pieces of blu-tac but this gives an idea of what it will look like.



There will be fencing in between the two bridges. Once the paint dries, it can have a base coat of flock and then I can vegetate it to my hearts content.

Whilst the glue and plaster were drying I took the opportunity to do something about the lack of a buffer stop at the end of the loading bay. The white bits are wet pva glue:roll:




:cheers 

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Looks great Nick..........the two different bridges link together nicely

That close up of the buffer is excellent.......the vegetation and weathering  are particularly good

Regards

 

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That'll work nicely.

Cheers
Dave

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Thanks guys

Dave, I'll pop by Abbotstone on Sunday and say hello.

Nick

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Classy stuff!  The bridge abutments are just right for the spot.

Doug

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I really like the buffer stop, the platform edging looks very neat and effective. Excellent job.

Bob(K)

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Wot_theysed.  :thumbs

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goes for me too!!

:doublethumb:lol::lol::cool:

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I know it's winter and the UK is shivering with the deep freeze but anyone would think it was spring in Much Murkle the speed at which the grass has been growing at the other end of the layout.



The embankment on the other side of the track has sprouted a fence and some undergrowth and bushes










Even some weedy type flowery thingies that are meant to be rosebay willow herb. anyway they bring a bit of colour to the embankment.



The area around the signal cabin (not fixed yet




More rosebay willow herb (sorry... weedy flowery thingies:roll:) and some red flowery thingies (poppies maybe??)



Remember that coal stage from a couple of weeks back






and the embankment at the station end near the cattle dock




Finally a shot looking back down the line




:cheers

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My word you have been busy! The vegetation looks very tasty.

Cheers
Dave

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ElDavo wrote:
The vegetation looks very tasty.

Cheers
Dave


Thanks Dave but personally I wouldn't eat it myself :roll::lol:

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Yet another first class layout on this forum!

I am very impressed with the way the coal stage has blended in with the bank behind it, it looks like it has been there for years.

Very nicely done.

look forward to seeing more. SOON!

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That looks great Nick..............where do you get the grass and ivy from?

Regards

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First class, Nick.  :thumbs

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I hope mine looks half as good, Woody!

Envious Doofer

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This is a serious looking pro layout mate. Love it, the overgrown stuff and broken fence is excellent.

Phill

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It looks jusy great Nick. :thumbs

The vegitation is excellent and, whilst I love that rosebay willow-herb, the poppies are fantastic.  Is there going to be some info on how you did the willow-herb ?  I presume the poppies are bits of red scatter sprinkled on...:roll:

Rosebay willow-herb was, and still is, a feature of  "derelict" ground.  It was very common on bomb-sites in post-war Britain - even in the centre of towns.  Those were in the days before herbicides cleaned everything up (including the wildlife !!)

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Thanks guys

John - the grass is Mininatur static grass a mix of shades, Autumn 4.5mm long and winter 6.00mm long. I chose these as even the layout is set in summer, the summer shades are far too green.

Phill - Broken fence :thud What broken fence. The GWR don't allow broken fences.:roll: I can't see it unless you mean the one running from the bridge at high level which is not broken but just finishes at the baseboard edge. It will be attached to another bridge when I get round to building the next baseboard;-)

:cheers

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John - forgot to say that the ivy is by Mininatur as well. It comes in a mat about 10 x15 cm and you can cut bits off and pull them apart as you like.

Petermac - The Rosebay willow herb is easy.

I used mauve coloured scatter and some small clumps of green foliage, any maufacturer's products will do.

1. Cut some bristles of a yard brush or something similar,
2. dip the top about a centimetre into pva glue and then..
3. plunge it into a small bag or container of mauve coloured scatter.
4. Set aside to dry for a few hours.
5. brush some neat pva onto the area where you want the plants to be
6. drop some rough green scatter on the wet pva and leave to dry.
7. when dry remove the excess scatter by hoovering.
8. drill small holes (1mm?) through the rough green scatter
9. put a blob of pva on the bottom of the bristle and plant.

The poppies are done by taking a brush charged with neat pva and drawing it carefully and lightly over the top of the static grass to just leave a small blob of glue on the end of the grass fibres. Then I just sprinkled some reddish coloured flock on the top. Again leave to dry and then hoover off any excess.

Easy peasy :cheers

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Thanks for the explanation Nick.

Is your hoover one of those minature ones or is it a biggie that sucks up the whole layout if you're not careful ?

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Petermac wrote:
Thanks for the explanation Nick.

Is your hoover one of those minature ones or is it a biggie that sucks up the whole layout if you're not careful ?


Petermac - I use a normal cylinder type with a flexible hose. But here is the trick. Put a bit of cloth over the hose (I use an old T shirt) and suck the scatter up through that. It reduces the chance of it lifting bits you don't want it to and you can recover the scatter and reuse it :thumbs

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Thanks Nick :thumbs

You could always use the "Doofer-vac" as designed by our own Dooferdog which also reduces the vacuum.  The last time I vacuumed my module, I lost a bit of fencing, most of the grass from the embankment and half the road surface .......................

I wondered if I was missing something in my technique ...............:roll::roll::lol::lol:

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Petermac wrote: ...  I wondered if I was missing something in my technique ...............:roll::roll::lol::lol:


You are supposed to use glue Peter, not screws!


Cheers
Dave (now leaving)

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:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

Glue you Dave !!! :cheers

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Seeing another thread about the 'Grassinator' reminded me that I hadn't done an update since just before Christmas.

Not much has happened on the scenic front recently as I've been building a number of wagon kits but I have managed to improve this area and thought I would do a 'how to' to show how simple some basic scenery detailing can be. Note the awful joint in the bridge wall. Unfortunately I forgot to take any photos of how I did the static grass but my technique is probably the same as most other explanations here.



The first step is to take some polyfibre, I use Woodland Scenics, cut into pieces about 25mm square and tease them out into a variety of shapes. Stick down with copious amounts of neat pva glue and leave to set in place. Note that the joint in the brickwork has disappeared alreday. You can hide a multitude of sins :roll: 




When the polyfibre is firmly attached to the ground, take a brush and dab neat pva all over the polyfibre.

Keep going until you end up with something like this.



Next take your preferred scatter material, I've used a mix of Javis medium and dark green grass scatter and drop it all over from a height. Just as though Celebrity Cooks like to garnish their dishes. :lol: You'll end up with something lke this.





Leave to overnight to dry and then vacuum up the excess. I use a normal vacuum cleaner but wrap a bit of old cloth around the end to catch the loose scatter so that I can reuse it. :thumbs



You can see how effective it is. Looking closer at your work and you'll see a quite convincing and airy bush or two




To lift it to the next level there needs to be some variety in the type of undergrowth and some a sapling or two. I use Woodland Scenics fine foliage which is quite expensive :sad: but comes in a variety of shades and goes a long way. It is intended for detailing trees but in each box there are usually a few pieces that make suitable saplings on their own such as this one.




Drill a hole, put a spot of neat pva in the hole and plant it. a bit more pva around the base for good measure and leave to set. The glue applicator is one of the best things I have ever bought. For thse who don't know it's called a 'Fine tip applicator' and allows you to put a small spot of pva or a fine line of glue just where you want it.




A few more bits of fine foliage complete the basic growth on the bank. There will be some more detailing such as flowers and also a bank of nettles behind the permanent way hut in the final photo. 



Finally to looking down the bank to the station in the distance. Next up is the large area on the left but I can't make my mind up what to do here. Suggestions welcome ;-) 



:cheers

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Hm - nice Woody - very nice !! :thumbs:thumbs

Haven't got time to chat - I'm going back to study it in more detail.

p.s. those "Fine Tip Applicators" are as you say - wonderful gadgets.  I think I posted something on here about them somewhere but they're well worth investing in and not expensive.  Maybe I'll put something in the "Tools & Equipment" section :roll:

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Very convincing effect indeed. I'm convinced by this post that it's the variety of texture and colour side by side that add the realism. I like the look of the PVA Acclipator  too.  I wonder if that well know Cornish Pirate [supporter] sells them? :thumbs:thumbs


Doug

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Very,very nice indeed Nick.A proper masterclass in foliage.I'll steer my mate Salfordman towards this thread.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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dooferdog wrote: Very convincing effect indeed. I'm convinced by this post that it's the variety of texture and colour side by side that add the realism. I like the look of the PVA Acclipator  too.  I wonder if that well know Cornish Pirate [supporter] sells them? :thumbs:thumbs


Doug


No Doug - it's made and marketed by a small private company -

           http://www.finetip.co.uk

Recommended by your friend Mr Wiffen - and there's some of his work in their gallery. :thumbs

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Looking good matey, it's giving me ideas about how to do the scenery on mine, yours is very effective !

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Thanks for all of your kind comments.

I've planted the nettles this evening at the rear of the platelayers hut. Just to make life easy I've tried to represent the white dead nettle variety with the white flowers :shock:

I'll post a photo of how it turns out tomorrow.

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Well worth seeing again!


Really good scenery, Nick.

I think doofer hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the variety of textures you've come up with, and one thing that struck me about the photo above is the openness of the left in contrast with the right.
Cow pasture might seem a bit boring to model - and it's not easy to get little plastic animals to look authentic - but I think it would be a good idea to leave at least a certain amount of open space.
Worn farm tracks are fun to model. Add some fencing and a gate at the end and you have the chance to model overgrown grasses around the posts, with cow parsley and blackberries flanking the track.
Just some thoughts.
It looks a treat already.

Mike

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That is a real compliment coming from you Mike, many thanks.

I especially appreciate your thoughts on the left hand area. The front of the layout is to the left of that photo so it was always the intention that the area should be open.

Leading on from your post, my thoughts are that to the left of the bridge will be a dense hedge. As this will run alongside a lane on the next board, this could have the field gate in it.

The trackside will be fenced and not too much vegetation growth so as to give a different feel to the fencing on the right hand side of the photo. As you say some thicker grass and a few brambles etc.

A large tree at the far end of the field in the corner nearest the track with perhaps a few cows sheltering on an area of bare ground under the tree in the shade. The tree will make the viewer peer around it to give different views of the station area.

The meadow, a mixture of short grazed grass and longer weedy areas with a few dots of colour to represent flowering meadow plants.

I love it when someone helps you put a plan together :thumbs

:cheers

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Lovely plan! I'm very keen to see it develop.

Mike

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...and it pretty much mirrors the suggestion that I was going to make apart from maybe splitting the field into two with a hedge/fence or wall depending upon that which is correct for the area you are modelling.

Very nice work Nick. Coming along a treat.

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It does look very good.

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:doublethumb Many thanks Nick, For showing your layout and how you do the scenic,s, Your application of different scenic flocks /colours really brings the foliage to life .

As some have said the open scene on the left, could have some cattle or sheep grazing, with maybe a gorze bush here and there to add colour along with other plants, The grass where cattle are grazing usually varies in hight, with flat grazed area,s and lots of higher grass clumps where the cattle have deposited manure ;-) nettle,s in the field here and there. The farmer maybe does not top the field very often? A fence along the trackside and at the field boundry, The fence on the boundry could have a gate and the odd broken plank fixed and maybe a bit of wire in the odd gap.

Water trough or small pond, cattle need water.

Goodluck with your Railway.

Derek


PS: Looking at your pointwork, I see you have trimmed of those big lugs on the tie bars assuming they are peco, Makes an excellent improvement from a visual perspective, I do the same, unless you need to use the odd one.

Last edited on Wed Feb 9th, 2011 12:49 pm by shunter1

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Something you don't see modelled very often in this setting is the massive West Country granite gate posts supporting big wooden gates, with hinge irons set therein by molten lead plugs, you have everything else 'just so', maybe if you think its applicable for your setting they [one or two] would make nice features. you could get two in, one each side of the end of a common hedgerow.

Doug

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dooferdog wrote: Something you don't see modelled very often in this setting is the massive West Country granite gate posts supporting big wooden gates, with hinge irons set therein by molten lead plugs, you have everything else 'just so', maybe if you think its applicable for your setting they [one or two] would make nice features. you could get two in, one each side of the end of a common hedgerow.

Doug

 

That's a great suggestion Doug, but.......... Much Murkle is set in the Forest of Dean / Monmouthshire / Herefordshire area.

:hmm Got me thinking though that I should look for something uniquely local to use in that area to set the location. I let you all know what it is when I've found it ;-) 

Meanwhile this is how the White Dead Headed nettles have turned out. The technique is the same as used for the Rosebay Willow Herb in an earlier post. I'm quite pleased with the result.




The platelayers hut is a Wills kit made a long time ago (badly), just look at those brick courses :oops: It's temporary and will be replaced with a scratchbuilt one to a different design, although it's replacement will use the same footprint. I just need to get the scalpel going again on some of Mr Wiffens finest.

:cheers  

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Nick, I've been following along and admire what you are achieving,  I wouldn't bother with that kind of detail you are now pursuing.

But a thought, in those days part of a PW gangs duty on their length, and most were exceedingly 'house proud' was to cut the grass inside the railway fence, and I wonder whether your vegetation would be allowed to flourish as it is doing.There was that prize length competition.

Not a criticism, just a comment.

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How about modelling the 'Buckstone'?   :lol:


See  http://www.oldukphotos.com/gloucestershire_forest_of_dean.htm

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dooferdog wrote:
How about modelling the 'Buckstone'?   :lol:


See  http://www.oldukphotos.com/gloucestershire_forest_of_dean.htm


In a word Doug....No

:hmm but maybe the field could be the home of the mythical stone circle of Much Murkle where it is said that in times gone by, the Druid Muirkeldridd over-indulged on the local apple fermented beverages and gave the village it's name. :lol:

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John Flann wrote:
Nick, I've been following along and admire what you are achieving,  I wouldn't bother with that kind of detail you are now pursuing.

But a thought, in those days part of a PW gangs duty on their length, and most were exceedingly 'house proud' was to cut the grass inside the railway fence, and I wonder whether your vegetation would be allowed to flourish as it is doing.There was that prize length competition.

Not a criticism, just a comment.


Hi John and thanks.

Even if it was criticism I would accept it as being constructive:thumbs

It's an interesting point and I must admit when you look at photos of railways taken in the 30's and earlier it is striking how often there is little vegetation at all around the railway. Whether this was due to PW gangs keeping their length tidy or just that most pictures seem to be taken around the station and yard areas I don't know.

When you say that there you wouldn't bother with that kind of detail, I have to say that there are elements that I admire in your layouts that I would overlook and may not even consider, so we all take differing approaches to pursue what interests us most.

The scenic treatment of Much Murkle may not be a strictly accurate depiction of the times it is set in but I feel it gives the layout a bit more character and it pleases me. I suppose the latter is what most of us strive to get out of the hobby ;-)

Please don't stop the comments coming.


:cheers

Last edited on Thu Feb 10th, 2011 05:02 pm by pnwood

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I believe there was a legal requirement for the railway companies to cut the grass between the fencing to prevent serious fires resulting from hot cinders etc. falling from the locos.  This was especially true during the dry summer months when crops were ripening in the fields.  I think they made the grass into hay for the railway horses.

Can you imagine hand scything the line from Edinburgh to London ..................................both sides !!!! :shock:

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Peter

You may well be right, it seems perfectly logical.

Good job then that it is not yet high summer in Much Murkle, the crops haven't ripened and the guys with the sythes are due to arrive next week in perpetuity :mutley

I'm making it up as I go along of course ;-)

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And you're doing a pretty good job of making it up Nick. :thumbs

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Petermac wrote: I believe there was a legal requirement for the railway companies to cut the grass between the fencing to prevent serious fires resulting from hot cinders etc. falling from the locos.  This was especially true during the dry summer months when crops were ripening in the fields.  I think they made the grass into hay for the railway horses.

Can you imagine hand scything the line from Edinburgh to London ..................................both sides !!!! :shock:


Peter is right. I used to work on the heavy cleaning gang when i was on the railway and one of our jobs was to clear the grass from the fence line to the track and also the halts platforms. This made picking up rubbish easier to spot and also any sparks from the train would not easily ignite or fag ends, (in theory).

Phill

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phill wrote:...................................................
Peter is right. ..............................................................


That's a phrase I've become very used to during my life Phillip ..................:roll::roll::roll::mutley:mutley:mutley  Just as long as you remember ...........:lol::cheers:cool wink

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The law on this is quite clear, in the case of Rylands v Fletcher (1868) it was held that '...he who brings a dangerous thing on his land is responsible it it escapes...' I can't remember the exact wording but that was the gist of it, and under it railway companies were liable if a spark from an engine caused a fire in crops growing adjacent. To help prevent this the grass was cut as Phill said, up to the railway fence in an effort to lessen the risk.

I might add that when I was with the Estate Department of LMR in the Liverpool District Surveyor's office in the 1950's settling farmers claims for loss of crops and any subsequent damage from fires caused by sparks or cinders from passing locos was a very pleasing job. Particularly out in delightful parts of the district as along the CLC in rural Cheshire, or rural Lancashire for that matter. I enjoyed my time in that office covering a widespread and very interesting district.

Last edited on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 09:48 am by John Flann

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I once got a 'stifficate' for spotting an embankment fire near Farnborough Main station and running a mile to the station to tell them!

I suppose it made up for all the 'Oi! Clear off, you little bas£$"&ds..' when we used to slope around the sheds and sidings elsewhere!


Doug

Last edited on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 10:41 am by Chubber

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And a free train journey to go with it Doug .......................? :roll::roll:

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No way!

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Hello Doug,
I wouldn't have thought you were a "sloper-offer" :shock:, more "a kindly-soul, staunch, upright, :roll: to the Police-Manor born - :hmm  or am I thinking of someone else, :lol:
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

Last edited on Sat Feb 12th, 2011 09:45 am by

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Michael Thornberry wrote: Hello Doug,
I wouldn't have thought you were a "sloper-offer" :shock:, more "a kindly-soul, staunch, upright, :roll: to the Police-Manor born - :hmm  or am I thinking of someone else, :lol:
Kind Regards,
Michael Thornberry.

That's me you're thinking of Michael ....................................:roll::cheers

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:It's a no no:Red CardTime to give me my thread back :lol:

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I've been working on some of the rolling stock for Much Murkle. I dug out some old kits I had built years ago and a few RTR which had been stored and forgotten about. Some were damaged and not worth the effort to restore but others apart from losing some of their transfers were reasonably ok.

I have refurbished some of the more acceptable ones.  Most of them still had the horrid plastic wheels supplied with the kits so these have gone to be replaced by Alan Gibson wheels and bearings. The old couplings were cut off and DG auto couplers fitted. The transfers still have to be finished. Here's 5531 running around the first batch to be used on the branch.

From left to right, LMS 12T van, PO 3 plank open , LMS 10T van, NE 12T van & GWR 20T Toad brake van. It wasn't until I saw this photo that I realised the 10T van had a buffer missing:thud




But at least the missing buffer means I can show you the DG Couplings more easily




5531 continues past the brake van


Under the bridge to clear the loop



before proceding back past the signal box



and coupling up ready to do a bit of shunting.




It's been nice to have a break and play trains for a change :cool wink

Last edited on Tue Feb 15th, 2011 02:02 pm by pnwood

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Some lovely shots Nick. :thumbs

How do you get on with the DG couplings and are they easy to assemble ? 

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Great piccys and some super modelling especially the foliage :thumbs

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Woteesed, I'd rather swap couplings now with only a few bits of stock!  I like shunting etc.

Doug

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Looking great! Is there any chance you could paint the walls blue? Or even blue-grey?
Those couplings are so much better than tension hooks.

Mike

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Thanks guys, your comments are appreciated.

Peter - I'm happy with the DG's, they work reliably (well most of the time) and once you've made a few they are quite easy to do. The only downside is that you do need to use electro magnets. If you use permanent magnets then they will always uncouple when not under tension as you pass over the magnet whether you want them to or not.with electro magnets you can control when uncoupling takes place.

If you are interested then this article on another forum shows the method that I use for making them which is slightly different than the normal instruction which involves some soldering.

Doug - If you are going to change then doing it when you have a small amount of stock is the best way to go. There are many different auto couplings available, Kaydee being the best known. DG and Sprat & Winkle both available from MSE probably being the others most commonly used on the exhibition circuit.

Mike - There will be a backscene eventually but I don't want to put it on whilst I am still working on the layout. It is easier to be able to easily work from both sides without having to lean over. You can see the end one painted blue in some of the earlier shots which is temporary (the blue that is) as I would like to indicate something beyond the boundary fence.

:cheers

Last edited on Sun Feb 13th, 2011 05:32 pm by pnwood

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Thanks, Woody, I've looked at KDs, to my mind they belong on American stock only, or modern knuckle type stock. Plenty of choice as you say, and I've book marked that link to study later.

Doug

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Yes, thanks from me too Nick.  Looks interesting and, as Mike said, they're so much better than tension locks.

Also, when Mike said paint the walls blue or blue grey, I thought he meant the bridge walls !!  I hadn't even looked at the room walls. :oops::oops:  That's maybe why they didn't think art was my best option at school ........................:roll::roll:

p.s. having looked at that link Nick, aren't these the couplings Brian was testing some time ago ?.................:hmm They're bound to be in the index :thumbs

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Yep, as I thought  - that same article is in this forum contents index Nick - under "C" for couplings.  I knew I'd seen it somewhere before.  There's not much slips past Bob....:thumbs

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Petermac wrote:
Yep, as I thought  - that same article is in this forum contents index Nick - under "C" for couplings.  I knew I'd seen it somewhere before.  There's not much slips past Bob....:thumbs


Actually Peter, if you look near the end of page 1 of this thread you'll see I mentioned it back then and Bob put the link in the index from there :oops:

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Cheers, Nick. I fully expected you to have a backscene. I just thought a quick repaint of the walls [with planning permission, of course :lol:] would be a good temporary measure.

Mike

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Thats a super sequence of shots Nick. I always enjoy reading about the development of Much Murkle........one of my favourite threads:thumbs:thumbs........even the hi jacks are good:lol:

5531 my absolute favourite loco........runs like a dream. One of the neat things about RR&Co is that each loco has its own odometer...........My layout isnt complete and I am well over 1000 scale miles with my 5531.....its nearest rival a 57xx is about half that!   

5531 continues past the brake van

It's been nice to have a break and play trains for a change :cool wink



 

 

You are so right......I find myself spending so much time on detailing that (a) the track gets dirty (I have to get a Dapol doey) and (b) I forget half the routines

Once again.....really like the layout

Kind Regards

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MikeC wrote: Well worth seeing again!


Really good scenery, Nick.

I think doofer hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the variety of textures you've come up with, and one thing that struck me about the photo above is the openness of the left in contrast with the right.
Cow pasture might seem a bit boring to model - and it's not easy to get little plastic animals to look authentic - but I think it would be a good idea to leave at least a certain amount of open space.
Worn farm tracks are fun to model. Add some fencing and a gate at the end and you have the chance to model overgrown grasses around the posts, with cow parsley and blackberries flanking the track.
Just some thoughts.
It looks a treat already.

Mike

Time to make a start on this area. I'm now thinking that it is too large to be left as a single field so I've experimentd by first of all fencing the lineside and then splitting the area into two fields, one smaller than the other, divided by a hedge and connecting field gates. The hedge line is not straight to avoid it looking too regular.

Here's a view of the sort of thing I'm considering looking from the far end.




A cruel close up of the gates....and yes there will be some posts to hang then on :roll:




and finally a couple of views looking each way through the gates.





I'm thinking of water troughs either side of the hedge near the gates with a very worn, slightly muddy area around the troughs with another worn area through the gates themselves. A large tree in the right hand corner of the field on the last picture, again worn ground under with some cows (or 'beasts' as my Gramp called them) shading themselves underneath.

Lots of different length grasses, especially overgrown at the bottom of the hedge and along the fence. Short grazed areas and a scattering of flowering meadow plants.

 

Whadya think??

:cheers

 

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 How about a small area with a couple of pig sty's

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I think it's time for action :thumbs

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Nick wrote-Whadya think??

great idea, should finish it all off nicely

:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

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Kevr wrote:
 

 How about a small area with a couple of pig sty's


:hmm Actually that's got me thinking that what I'd earmarked for the smaller field could in fact be part of a small holding or farm yard with the meadow accessed from it through the gates

Maybe some more buildings to build then. Wonder if that nice Mr Wiffen could be persuaded to do a farmhouse and some outbuildings as a kit :lol:

Mike & Owen, thanks for the endorsement, I will indeed get going soon but I have to go to Plymouth this weekend to look at the University with my son.

Last edited on Tue Feb 15th, 2011 05:42 pm by pnwood

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pnwood wrote: Maybe some more buildings to build then. Wonder if that nice Mr Wiffen could be persuaded to do a farmhouse and some outbuildings as a kit :lol:


 

You may have to use the Metcalfe variety if needed now  - Farm Buildings, Barn  & Manor House

http://www.metcalfemodels.com/acatalog/Town_and_Country_00.html

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pnwood wrote:

:hmm Actually that's got me thinking that what I'd earmarked for the smaller field could in fact be part of a small holding or farm yard with the meadow accessed from it through the gates


Had a good look at it and it's not going to be easy to come up with something that will look right as the contours in that area are quite undulating. I haven't quite dismissed it yet but I don't really want the bother of remodelling the area.

I'll keep my thinking cap on and can maybe come up with something if I can find a suitable farm barn or shed built on a slope to base a building on.

If not it's back to plan A.

pnwood
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Sol wrote:
pnwood wrote: Maybe some more buildings to build then. Wonder if that nice Mr Wiffen could be persuaded to do a farmhouse and some outbuildings as a kit :lol:


 

You may have to use the Metcalfe variety if needed now  - Farm Buildings, Barn  & Manor House

http://www.metcalfemodels.com/acatalog/Town_and_Country_00.html


Thanks Sol but they look at bit too generic northern to me, if that makes sense.

I found this picture which modelled in a working state might fit the bill. Quite a challenge though ;-)

Marty
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That would be perfect Nick, and it says that it's been restored so you could go and get some photos of it to help with the scratchbuild.

I'm looking forward to getting to this part on my layout. Love the details that are in the planning. :thumbs

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I think the Scalescenes country pub, painted overall with suitable emulsion paint to represent older greyer/browner render would make an ideal 'Olde Farmhouse'.

It already has some interesting roof lines,  a simple extension to the small chimney end, into a sag roof line of barn and shippon wouldn't be too hard for a man of your diameter, sorry, calibre.......scale sizing, dimensioning already done, in fact it could make a little earner for someone...


Doug

[15 guineas each, p&p extra]

:mutley

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Nick - I wouldn't do a farmstead.

I really like the open aspect of Much Murkle and to clutter it up with half a farmyard would, IMHO, spoil it.  By all means have your cattle, maybe the odd sheep or two and at least one sizeable tree but leave the bukldings as they are. :roll:

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Petermac wrote:
Nick - I wouldn't do a farmstead.

I really like the open aspect of Much Murkle and to clutter it up with half a farmyard would, IMHO, spoil it.  By all means have your cattle, maybe the odd sheep or two and at least one sizeable tree but leave the bukldings as they are. :roll:


Thank you Peter.

I had just about come to that conclusion myself and you've just confirmed that it is almost certainly the right decision. I had a really good look at the area today. It is too small to accommodate a large building such as a farm house or barn without the building completely dominating the scene, not what I want at all.

You are quite right that it is the openess of this area that allows you to feel you are in those fields looking at the railway over the fence.

My ideas ran away with me and thank goodness you've reined me in.

:cheers

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Nick, I'm a little late here, but I really like the rolling hills you have created. They look so natural. It would be shame to cover it up with buildings. There are several things you could do that would not hurt the rolling farm land though.

A few trees here and there, a tree line along the edge of the layout that is being cut down by the owner, thus allowing for stacks of branches (some dead, some just freshly cut down). Maybe even a stack or two of fire wood neatly set up for drying.

Around my home town there were always rocks sticking up out of the ground somewhere.

Just a few ideas, but keep in mind, I like what you have right now too.

Wayne

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Thanks Wayne, an interesting idea for a cameo scene there :thumbs

Progress has been a little slow due to work but I have got started. The plan has changed but only slightly.


What's a gate doing in the middle of the field you might ask. Well it is now at the end of an access lane.




Things start to take shape with the addition of a couple of hedges.




There will be a water trough in this area which are always surrounded by bare muddy ground.




Another view down the lane and through the gate across to the railway. There will be another overgrown fence to the left hand side of the lane.




And finally a view from the railway side




Lots still to do, field grasses, undergrowth around the hedges and fences, tone down the bare areas, a tree or two and not forgetting some livestock. I'll post more progress as it happens.

:cheers

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Some really good work there. Photograph number three is particularly good to my eyes. Love it.

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Excellent Nick......to my mind you have created absolutely the best effect for that space:thumbs

Kind Regards

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Definitely a good move keeping the "open" space.
It looks just right (in my opinion)

Chris

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Nice work Nick, and it was the right decision to keep that space open. It give space to the layout.

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Always inspiring and great to look at Nick how about a horse and cart or maybe a tractor.

Regards

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that is spot on Nick,looks very good
:doublethumb:lol::cool:

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Lovely,lovely work Nick!
:doublethumb
Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Been doing a bit of Pro-grass-tinating to the field area over the last couple of days. The joints on the peco fencing are going to have to be covered with a bush or two. 




The areas treated are the  banks inside the fence, around the field edges, the areas under the hedgerows and any other ungrazed areas. Lots of brambles, nettles etc to be added on the banks and around the fences next. The grazed areas also need some more treatment to tone them down. The variety of shade in the static grass was achieved by mixing two colours of Mininatur grasses. Autumn " 4.5mm long and winter " 6.5mm long. To my eye the summer shades were just too bright.






The worn area to the far right of the gate will be where the cows laze away under the shade of a tree. The worn area to the far left will be in front of a water trough.







Two of the hedgerows temporarily in place with the first tree (the gate posts are upright...honest;-)). This small field will be home to Farmer Clarence Fencott's prize Hereford bull so there will need to be another fence and/or hedge running from the tree along the side of the lane. Another tree is being cultivated on my workbench and will be placed just inside the other field where the hedge meets the lineside fence. The cows will use the shade from this tree much to the chagrin of the Bull, them being so close but being unable to get at them.  
5531 shunting a 6 wheel milk siphon in the background.

 


A few self indulgent shots. It's a pity I haven't got better lighting in the cellar. I'll have to do something about that soon methinks!









Another update soon

Thanks for looking :cheers


 

Last edited on Thu Mar 3rd, 2011 10:30 am by pnwood

Robert
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Excellent shots Nick and for an ex-pat like me living in an almost barren area your pictures remind me of the lushness that can be England in certain places. It's been a pleasure to look at them.

pnwood
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Robert wrote:
Excellent shots Nick and for an ex-pat like me living in an almost barren area your pictures remind me of the lushness that can be England in certain places. It's been a pleasure to look at them.

Thanks Bob. I'm fully intending that you'll see quite a few more yet.:cool wink

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Bring 'em on Nick there's plenty of space.

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The last two photos could be the real thing rather than a model.
Super modelmanship :doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb

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Excellent mate, love the layout.

Phill

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Nick, I can smell the smoke, sense the shade and feel the midge's biting. Well done.

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More of this, please, Woody..................




.........there's almost a train in the picture, but it is 100% brilliant.


Jealous Doofer

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This just gets better and better Nick.

The grass shades look wonderful and that fencing could be straight out of "Little House on the Prairie" - or should that be "Little Prairie through the gate" ? :lol::lol:

It's going to be a masterpiece when the lane is done and the filed stocked with cattle.  Just inspiring. :cheers:cheers

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 Beautiful.

Keep those photos coming. Your work is first class. And when you upgrade your lighting, we want to see them all over again :lol:

Mike

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Thanks everyone, your encouragement means a lot to me. When the weather improves in a couple of months or so I would like to get the layout out of the cellar and take some photos outside in the natural light.

It could be embarrassing though if I've made a mistake with the cellar hatch measurements :roll::lol:

:cheers

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to be honest, the lighting is just right ,a perfect dull english day with the odd patch of brightness here and there
spot on ,
:doublethumb:doublethumb:lol::cool:

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That lineside grass is as near perfect as I have ever seen. Well worth every moment you have spent on it Nick.

pnwood
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I picked these up very cheap from a stall holder at the Abingdon exhibition on saturday. The black and white cows are Bachmann I think and are obviously Friesans but I've no idea where the Bull originates from but I can't think breed the person who painted it thinks it was :shock:

 

 



As I need Hereford cattle for Much Murkle the Friesans had to be de-horned before painting white. The bull is now a...wait for it..... little white bull :roll: :lol:



Finally after a dab of reddy brownish paint they are ready to go grazing. 20 minutes work from start to finish including the paint drying (acrylic)




:cheers

pnwood
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Some photos to update on progress. The entrance to the field has acquired another hedge to the left of the lane and the tree has been replaced with a larger. The cattle have also taken up residence.




Henry the Hereford bull is surveying his surroundings and wondering how he can get into the adjacent field and acquaint himself with the lovely females he's noticed in there.




Those females are obviously uppermost in Henry's mind as he doesn't seem disturbed by 5531 shunting the yard





In the next field the cows relax under the tree in the afternoon shade





:cheers 

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Superb work Woody. :thumbs That tree is a cracker. Always a pleasure to visit this terminus.

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What a vast improvement on the cows. A bit of skillfully applied paint and they are transformed!


Cheers
Dave

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I love this little layout Nick - it's so evocative! Following your progress makes me think I'm being far too ambitious with my 6m square Ottersford Junction as I've only just completed baseboards & now have meters of track & dozens of points to lay, wire & ballast before I can get on with what I am looking forward to - the scenery!  Thanks for your inspirational & informative posts on your developments. Mal

pnwood
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Marty - Thanks for noticing the tree. I'm really pleased with it. I wanted a large centre piece with some of those long sagging branches that just seem to hover above the the ground in the bull's field.

Dave - Yes again I'm pleased with how they've turned out. In fact they look better in real life as the photos are about twice full size. Henry the bull is the biggest transformation and looks the best of the lot. I would like to know it's origins (manufacturer) if anyone knows.

Mal - I decided after a number of larger aborted attempts to make this layout much smaller and go for high scenic detail. Apart from one lapse of about 2 months due to not being able to decide how best to proceed with the scenic detail, interest hasn't waned. It's a fine balance though to keep enough operating interest the smaller you go. The current two boards measure 1.2 x 0.55m each and there is another board still to construct which will extend the sidings to an industry and a fiddle yard.

There is still quite a bit of detailing to do to the fields and fencing before moving back to the station board to do some detailing there.

:cheers

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You clearly have those bovines potty-trained....or will the beef-chip cookies follow....:lol: ?

Lovin' this :thumbs



Doug

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Love the things your doing on this layout mate :thumbs

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dooferdog wrote: You clearly have those bovines potty-trained....or will the beef-chip cookies follow....:lol: ?

Lovin' this :thumbs



Doug


They've only been in the field a short time, give them chance :roll::lol: I'm sure there will be a few gravy pancakes appearing in due course.

Glad your enjoying it Phill.

Meanwhile farmer Clarence Fencott has been to market and bought a few more beasts for his herd.





Before painting this second batch there were a few duplicates that needed the pose altering. They are made out of a nylon type plastic, so I stuck their heads in boiling water for a few seconds then bent the necks and whilst holding them in the new position ran the cold tap over them. Seemed to set the new position quite well. A few dabs of paint and they were ready to join the herd.

:cheers

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Brilliant Nick.:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs.........as John Flann remarked you have created scenes where you can really feel the heat and sense the slow pace of life in the country........there are probably some odours you can sense as well:lol:

 This layout and these shots definitely earn an elephant stamp:mutley

Regards from Vancouver

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In a word Nick "relaxing" ever thought about a cow pat under the layout to finish off the environmental effect.

Rgds

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wogga wrote:
In a word Nick "relaxing" ever thought about a cow pat under the layout to finish off the environmental effect.

Rgds

Pete


Definately NOT. I have to crawl under the layout to get to the operating side. :lol:

pnwood
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I'm going away tomorrow for a week in North Cyprus decorating my brother in law's villa. Thought I might get a sun tan but it was snowing there yesterday :shock:

Anyway as I won't be posting for a few days I thought I would post a few (well a lot really:lol: ) of pics to show what I've been up to this last week.

First up is the sudden growth of cow parsly in the bottom of the hedgerows. One cow in particular seems interested in it..





The boundary of the field and bank have had some detail work done. A bit more still to do to add a few flowering plants but essentially completed now






And to finish up some self gratifying shots. A newcomer (Ebay bargain) to the line 6110 large prairie hauls a short frieght into Much Murkle.



A view to the end of the line



Looking down the line from the platform





A pair of Prairies, Large and Small 






See you all in a weeks time

:cheers


 

 

 

 

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Woody, the addition to the embankments of that vegetation makes a big difference, and to my eye much improves the layouts scenic appeal. Nice job.

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Lucky you nick - snow or not !!

Where in TRNC (North Cyprus) are you going ?  We had a holiday house there for 10 years before we moved to France and have some wonderful memories.  In the days before private telephones and reliable electricity supplies and when there were only 3 "proper" tarmac roads - Nicosia to Kyrenia, Kyrenia to Lapta and Nicosia to Famagusta (or their Turkish equivalents of Lefkosa, Girne and Gazimagosa).

I understand it's changed a lot over the last 10 years although we keep threatening to go back - if only to lay the ghost ............

pnwood
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This will be my last post before I go to bed for an early start tomorrow

Peter - The villa sits at the foot of the mountains above Chatalkoy a few kilometres east of Kyrenia (Girne).



I imagine it has changed a lot over the last 10 years. We've only been going for 5 years and it has changed a lot in that time. Most roads are now tarmac with a few exceptions in the very rural areas such as the end of the Karpas.

We really enjoy it and I usually go twice a year, now to help with the maintenance work and again in October with Janet, although not this year as we are going to tour France instead.

If you ever do go back to TRNC and are looking for a villa then I'm sure I can get you a deal ;-)   

pnwood
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I'm back. The four of us redecorated all three bedrooms, the whole of the downstairs, including some re-plastering, repainted the exterior up to the ground floor window cill height and weeded the large garden....phew!

Bl**dy hard work but nice to see a bit of sun for a change.

Not had chance to look at the layout yet but hope to get back to some more scenics in the next couple of days.

:cheers

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I donno, swanning about in the sun enjoying yourself, and here we all are, deprived of updates to the Much Murkle story that has us all riveted. :mutley

Glad your back :thumbs

What's on the agenda?

pnwood
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Marty wrote:
I donno, swanning about in the sun enjoying yourself, and here we all are, deprived of updates to the Much Murkle story that has us all riveted. :mutley

Glad your back :thumbs

What's on the agenda?

Hi Marty

I seem to have brought the sun back with me. A beautiful day today.

Not quite sure what to do next. There is some scenic detailing still to do on the field area and some detailing work to do around the signal box, and add a couple of signals I've built from ratio kits and ....er.... a multitude of other jobs.

I did want to start on building the 3rd board for the fiddle yard but that has to be put on hold as I had builders move in yesterday (I've only been waiting 6 months for them to start :roll:) to extend my garage / workshop which now has no rear wall and rubble everywhere.

pnwood
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Time for another update. Work is on a go slow due to the garage refurbishment (new floor) and extension I'm having built. The amount of stuff I have to keep moving around for the builders is unbelievable :sad:

I've drilled the hole and planted the first of the two signals. It's a ratio kit with added railings, painted and weathered and does work, although I've not decided where to locate the operating lever yet. So although I said it works, it doesn't :roll:

Sorry for the slightly out of focus photo


 

Now for some more self indulgent shots. I've been trying to find some new angles and locations to take shots from. This one is quite nice taken from the bridge now it has the added interest of the signal.











I particularly like these next two pics





and finally..




:cheers







Robert
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All great pictures Nick. You have really captured the atmosphere. Do you have a track plan for the layout or have I missed it somewhere?

pnwood
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Hi Bob

This was the original plan, which ended up with a slight change to the track plan and facilities. The engine shed behind the platform was removed (I've assumed it is off stage at the mainline/branch junction) and replaced with the cattle dock and a coaling stage.

The coal siding remains but the goods shed is now on another siding between the coal siding and the platform road. The goods shed road shown on the plan now extends onto the third board (not yet built) which leads to a Cider House. The road that is shown on the plan leading to the third board has been shortened and realigned to be a headshunt for the goods yard. 




I don't have a plan drawn like above with the changes but this is one that I knocked up to ask some questions about signalling a while back that shows them in a more diagramatic form.


Nick

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Nick............... I have to say that shot with the Signalbox in the foreground is superb.......definitely my nomination for week 38

It has to be one of the best examples of the Ratio Model I have seen.......I have made a couple of them and they can be quite finicky..............even close up I can see any imperfections at all...........boring:mutley Have you modified it at all ? The ridge tiles look different.....and better

Regards

pnwood
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Hi John

Yes the Ratio boxes are quite fiddly, especially the way I built mine.

Essentially this box was originally built as the instructions in the early 1980's and never used. I decided to try and rebuild it with a different base so that it didn't a) look the same as everyone else's and b) so that the brickwork matched the rest of the railway structures at the terminus i.e. Scalescenes.

I managed to break it down without any damage to the components but a finial had been broken in storage so that was the only problem. All the brick walls, chimney and roof were replaced in card and Scalescenes paper. New gutters and downpipes were also added. The rest is original, timber walls, windows stairs and, yes, even the ridge tiles :lol:

I set out wanting to scratchbuild all structures on the layout but I don't think that I could have made a better job than this kit bash to be honest and I'm very pleased with it. Undeniably it still shows its Ratio origins but the changes set it apart from the rest in my eyes.

Quite a while back now I detailed the work on this thread Signal Box build that may be of interest.
:cheers

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pnwood wrote:
I set out wanting to scratchbuild all structures on the layout but I don't think that I could have made a better job than this kit bash to be honest and I'm very pleased with it. Undeniably it still shows its Ratio origins but the changes set it apart from the rest in my eyes.


 

Couldnt agree more.......now I understand why it looks subtly different!

I guess I am a bit slow....I was so impressed with the painting of the brickwork:oops:

Its a super model in keeping with the rest of your layout

Kind Regards

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Always a pleasure to peruse this layout Nick despite it's lack of Crimson Lake and the lost wagon which was obviously pilfered from up t'north!

One of my inspirations for Scalescenes use.

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Some absolutely stunning shots there Nick.Just one thing I'm not 100% sure of...The signals.
Would real signals have a base like that? The rest of the signals look "real" to me,its just the base that rankles.Easy enough to cover with ballast though.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

pnwood
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Thought I would try out this multiple quote reply thingy

wogga wrote:
Always a pleasure to peruse this layout Nick despite it's lack of Crimson Lake and the lost wagon which was obviously pilfered from up t'north!

One of my inspirations for Scalescenes use.


Thanks Wogga, it does my ego no harm at all to think I've been an inspiration for something :lol:;-)
It was rumoured that on arrival the said wagon contained some very large blackish looking sausages that made hairs grow on the chests of the local wenches. It will be returned to sender with some local Herefordshire cider that will put hairs on the top lips of any northern lasses who drink it in retribution for the many ruined relationships in Much Murkle. :lol:

georgejacksongenius wrote:
Some absolutely stunning shots there Nick.Just one thing I'm not 100% sure of...The signals.
Would real signals have a base like that? The rest of the signals look "real" to me,its just the base that rankles.Easy enough to cover with ballast though.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs


Hi John. The signal is just sitting loosely in a hole at the moment until I sort out the operating mechanism. When it is sorted the base will be let into the surrounding ballast and will disappear (just like that :roll: as Tommy Cooper would have said)

....and yes I have had a couple of glasses of Bianco Delle Venezie :lol::cheers

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Tell you what mate,once that base is covered,I don't think anyone would ever suss it was a model!
Really amazing to see how this layouts come on.You've earned that drink!

Cheers,John.B.

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Here is my nomination .......another great shot from Nick's Much Murkle 



You can find it here

http://yourmodelrailway.net/reply.php?topic_id=4708&post_id=156747&quote=1



 

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Nick, I really like that bracket signal and its positioning, it looks just right in those surroundings. I would like to find a place for one at Hintock, but I don't think its going to happen.

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John Dew wrote: Here is my nomination .......another great shot from Nick's Much Murkle 




You can find it here

http://yourmodelrailway.net/reply.php?topic_id=4708&post_id=156747&quote=1



 

your nomination should go in the "Member's Voting" thread John - not here.

I've moved it for you - see here (post No 4) :  http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=8411&forum_id=102&jump_to=156973#p156973

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Thanks Peter, saved me a job.

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Thanks Guys

So much for my expertise with multi quotes:oops::oops::oops:

pnwood
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Not much been happening on Much Murkle for the past three weeks due to the builders but I did manage to get down to the cellar a a few days ago and do a little detailing, adding ground signals, telegraph poles, platform lamps, seats and station name boards.

Here's a few photos and I think the added details make a big difference to the overall look. As is my way, nothing is, or will be fastened down permanently until I'm entirely happy with with it in every aspect. That's why some of the shots will show wonky telegraph poles and lamps.

Railcar 22 arriving at Much Murkle



And a change for me, some shots in B&W to try and get some 1930's atmosphere. Railcar about to take on board.......well nobody actually, the place is deserted.



Railcar ready to depart on a through working to Gloucester. I'll be glad when I have the time to get rid of those awful Lima couplings




After the railcar departs, pannier 2788 shunts the dock




:cheers

Robert
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In this particular instance I think the colour shot is great, very atmospheric to me.

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Nick, enjoyed the photos, especially the first. It  is amazing how adding those details brings a layout to life.

And, yes, the railcar will look a lot better with scale couplings; mine certainly does. My 'flying banana' is always a favourite with visitors. It would appear better with a driver but though I've had it from when they first came out in  1970?, I still haven't worked out how to get it apart to get him in.

pnwood
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Thanks Bob and John

John, Mine probably goes back to the 70's as well.

The couplings will go and the ends will be detailed, flush glazing fitted , driver and passengers aboard.........eventually .:lol:

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Just great as ever Woody - I have to keep coming back to your thread to give me a bit of inspiration as I'm sick of looking at bare baseboards! If I didn't have the old Easewood branch to do a bit of fiddling with I think I'd have given up!  Keep it up! (By the way, are you DCC? I notice you've one of the old Hornby open-cab panniers - have you fitted a decoder? Having trouble with mine.)

Mal

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Nick, just a comment on the colour photo, maybe the lighting exaggerates the difference but I suggest that the cess should be darker than the ballast. Certainly the GWR was proud of its permanent way and in general used clean light coloured stone as ballast and the cess was of crushed clinker or similar, and so darker. Both of course, affording good drainage.

This was my experience when 'out on the line', and I think photographs will bear it out.

Maybe you could do this in some manner that did not require any major changes, as it looks nice and neat already. Just a gentle toning down of the cess and leaving the ballast as is. Any ganger would be proud to have a length like that.

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Kaiser wrote:
Just great as ever Woody - I have to keep coming back to your thread to give me a bit of inspiration as I'm sick of looking at bare baseboards! If I didn't have the old Easewood branch to do a bit of fiddling with I think I'd have given up!  Keep it up! (By the way, are you DCC? I notice you've one of the old Hornby open-cab panniers - have you fitted a decoder? Having trouble with mine.)

Mal


Thanks Mal

Much Murkle is good old DC so I can't help with fitting a decoder. Why not post a thread on it as there is plenty of DCC expertise on here. :thumbs

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John Flann wrote:
Nick, just a comment on the colour photo, maybe the lighting exaggerates the difference but I suggest that the cess should be darker than the ballast. Certainly the GWR was proud of its permanent way and in general used clean light coloured stone as ballast and the cess was of crushed clinker or similar, and so darker. Both of course, affording good drainage.

This was my experience when 'out on the line', and I think photographs will bear it out.

Maybe you could do this in some manner that did not require any major changes, as it looks nice and neat already. Just a gentle toning down of the cess and leaving the ballast as is. Any ganger would be proud to have a length like that.


Hi John

Thinking about what you've said, I'm sure you must be right, especially with your 'line' experience. I never thought about the colours too much (you don't see too many colour photos of the pre-war steam era for reference) but had assumed that the cess would be lighter with most of the muck and oil being on the track ballast. With the track ballast generally being higher then I suppose much of this would wash down into the cess. (we really could do with a shrug shoulders in a questioning sort of way emoticon :lol: )

So that I could check this out to get the cess colouring right would you (or anyone else for that matter) think that modern day trackwork would show the same colour characteristics as in the steam era.

I'd be interested to hear what others say on the subject

I would be hesitant to use a paint colour wash on the cess ballast for fear that it would stain other areas alongside but I could change the colour of the cess ballast reasonably easily using pastels I suppose.

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Nick, ballast only got spoiled like that where locos stood for any length of time, and generally there was little on running lines. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Two books I use for reference are 'Great Western Branch Line Termini' Volume Two, by Paul  Karau, ISBN0860930181 and 'Great Western Branch Lines 1955-1965', by CJ Gammel SBN 902888 55 2, published in 1978 and 1979, and both by the Oxford Publishing Co. Both are probably now out of print but second hand copies should be available.

Of the two, the first I find more useful covering as it does the Abbotsbury, Ashburton, Hemyock, Moretonhampstead and Princetown branches, from all of which and more I have got inspiration. If you haven't got them or not seen them they would I suggest, be worth hunting down.

They are well illustrated and with plans. Even though the photos are all black and white the different hues of the various textures and materials can be discerned. I commend them.

Last edited on Fri Apr 22nd, 2011 10:08 am by John Flann

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The other source I use, which I may well have mentioned before, is Stephen Williams 3 volume set "Great Western Modelling" published by Wild Swan. The first two sections are particularly good 

I agree with you about Paul Larau John.....Oxford Publishing issued a combined volume of Great Western Branch Line Termini that was reprinted in 1999.....I actually use the front section (Volume 1) the most....it features Fairford,Lambourn,Tetbury,Wallingford and Watlington......quite the collection!

I hadnt heard of Gammel before I will try and locate a copy somehow

Regards

 

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Hi John's

I'm aware of paul Karaus book(s) but have not seen a copy for several years but have been on the lookout. I used photocopies (ahem) of the plans for Tetbury Station Building and Princetown Goods Shed to base the buildings on at Much Murkle at for those at Much Murkle. The photocopies were done in the late 70's and I have kept them ever since.

I have Stephen Williams books and will look at them again regarding the ballast.

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John Dew wrote:
I hadnt heard of Gammel before I will try and locate a copy somehow



Serendipity..........open my emails and there is a flyer from Ian Allan advertising second hand (sorry previously owned) books so I do a spur of the moment search for Gammel and I now have or will have both his GWR and LMS branch lines books on their way to me.............the GWR cost almost twice as much as the LMS book?

 

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Nick and John, there is another book worth looking for and that is 'Great Western Branch Line Album', Ian Krause, Ian Allan, 1969, S.B.N. 7110 0069 7, all black and white photos. I was looking at the Paul Karau book the other day for information on GWR ground signals and found just what I needed in the Morehampstead section, and there too are some good shots of clean ballast/dark cess.

But if you want colour I suggest back copies of 'Back Track'.The Editor has a real knack of selecting excellent illustrations and often the articles are of GWR branch lines, maybe in BR days, but their heritage shines through even so.

I use them, one concerning the Callington Branch has a shot of the station and surroundings,a collection of different roofs, and of the goods yard surface. I can't put it up here but I can scan it and email it, maybe later; all the family , four adults, three teenagers and a dog,are here for Easter and two birthdays, so its a bit hectic.

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I'd be interested to see that John, but....in your own time when convenient.

Thanks

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and me please John.......but get Easter over first.....I know the feeling I have to cook dinner for 12 tomorrow:cry:

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I knew it was a long time since I’d posted any news of Much Murkle and many of you will have picked up from postings that I’ve been following my other interests during the summer, but I was shocked to see the last post was back in April. :shock::shock::shock:

Well, I went to what has become the annual start to my modelling season, Modelex at Andover on Saturday and had a long chat with the owner of Millandford, a lovely GWR branchline layout, just the spur I needed to get the enthusiasm going again. :thumbs:

So what’s next for Much Murkle?

I listed all the things that need finishing on the two boards that are built so far, things like finishing off all the buildings with little details, painting figures, backscenes, etc etc, all the things that were bogging me down and sapping enthusiasm running up to last spring. It looks a daunting list, but after some thought, the real reason Much Murkle has struggled to progress lately is that I’ve never got round to building the final baseboard that will take the fiddle yard, thus I can’t really run any trains and get some operating pleasure.

So the next job will be to construct the board for the fiddle yard, which will have a scenic area on the front face with 1 or 2 sidings. I will use cassettes but haven’t decided on their construction yet. Questions needing answers are, do I use standard track or aluminium angle? how do I get electrical continuity, between the cassette and main boards? Do I use separate smaller cassettes for the locos? :???:

I would be interested in hearing how any of you who use a cassette system designed it and use it.

:cheers

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Good to have you back, as it were, Nick, I'm not so sure about cassettes I experimented with them briefly but found they proved unwieldy when handling them. Also free running stock did just that when I moved them-they ran off.

I know it takes more space but I much prefer a fiddle yard. Even cassettes take up length.

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This might give you food for thought.........13ft of 'fiddle' in 4ft, plus the option to turn a locomotive.

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=6273&forum_id=6&highlight=plate

Doug

Last edited on Mon Sep 5th, 2011 11:39 am by Chubber

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John Flann wrote:
Good to have you back, as it were, Nick, I'm not so sure about cassettes I experimented with them briefly but found they proved unwieldy when handling them. Also free running stock did just that when I moved them-they ran off.

I know it takes more space but I much prefer a fiddle yard. Even cassettes take up length.



This might give you food for thought.........13ft of 'fiddle' in 4ft, plus the option to turn a locomotive.
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=6273&forum_id=6&highlight=plate

Doug


John & Doug. Thanks for your suggestions but believe me I've looked at all the different options for the space I have and cassettes seem to be the only viable way forward.

Length available is only 800mm, enough for a loco and 2 coaches or 6 wagons and guards van but the width is even more restrictive at 175mm and if this was a sector plate or traverser any movement would have to be accomplished within this space constraint. I envisage the space will hold two cassettes with others stored behind the layout.

As the cassettes will be relatively small lengthwise I think they can be handled successfully without too many problems, and with careful design I think the issue of freewheeling stock can be overcome.

So I'm really after thoughts on the cassette design. My initial thoughts are that I would like to use separate short cassettes for the locos to try and eliminate as much handling as possible. Electric continuity provided by the cassettes clipping into a locating dock. Some sort of removable end protector to prevent damage to couplings and as John rightly points out a method of preventing unwanted movement of stock. It would also be useful if they could double as stock storage when in transit. Lastly they need to be simple to construct.

I don't really want to reinvent the wheel if someone has already developed a successful version.

pnwood
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Progress !!!

My thoughts on the cassettes are coming together and I've got a design in mind that has given me the confidence to go ahead and build the baseboard. More on the cassettes when I get around to building them, but first the baseboard.

The construction will be the same as the other Much Murkle boards, built almost entirely of 6mm ply. I've built the frames sections this evening before and after England getting a fortunate win against Wales. I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post up my methods.

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Fortunate indeed.
Lord help England against Spain or one of the other 'top' teams!

I'm following your efforts with great interest, Nick.
You may make an even better wheel.

pnwood
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Thanks DD

I've assembled the baseboard frames but haven't got round to taking any photos yet as I've found out that I'm going to be away for a few days working. I might get round to posting some at the weekend otherwise it will be late next week.

Be patient

:cheers

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At last I have the time to show you the progress on the fiddle yard board and how it is constructed.

Much Murkle has been in desperate need of a fiddle yard for some time. It follows the same method of basic construstion as the others. The construction is totally glued, no pins or screws are used. First side and the ends are made of 2 strips of 125mm deep 6mm thick ply with 6mm ply spacers between. Here's a photo of 2 sides and one end




The next photo shows the sides and ends loosely in position and the strengthening strips used in the corners




Making sure everything is square the corner strips are glued to the ends and held with clamps until set. The sides are then glued to the ends, again making sure everything is square




You then end up with this and single ply intermediate cross pieces have been added




Next are the legs. I use 45 x 45mm legs dropped into sockets uner the baseboard (more of this later). The legs need a 10mm hole about 40mm deep drilled in the base for the adjustable legs.





The next 2 photos show the leg sockets being made and should be fairly self explanatory I hope





I normally use 6mm ply again for the baseboard top but because this board will form the fiddle yard and I will be using cassettes I wanted something a bit smoother to slide the cassettes on so 6mm MDF was used instead. The top is set 6mm below the top of the adjoining board to allow for the base of the cassettes which again will use 6mm MDF. The scenic front area will require a further layer of 6mm ply bonded to the MDF to raise the track base to the correct height. The next photo shows the board in position.




Boards are joined using bolts and aligned with brass dowels.

I've also removed all the building from the other 2 boards for the time being. I didn't want to risk damaging them and it gives me the opportunity to finish the detailing on them. I've added the backscene boards to the station baseboards. These are again made from 6mm ply and stand approx 250mm above baseboard level. They have been coverered with thick lining paper and an artist friend has voluteered to paint these for me when I have completed the basic scenery on the fiddle yard board.

The removed buildings plus a tree waiting to be planted somewhere




I may have posted this gratuitous shot before but what the heck, I'm going to France tomorrow evening for a couple of weeks :cheers

The branch 45xx just about to take on some coal before resuming shunting duties





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I love gratuitous photographs Nick, especially when they are as good as that one.

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Excellent photo and workmanship Nick, I'll be interested to know how you manage with the cassettes.

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John Flann wrote:
Excellent photo and workmanship Nick, I'll be interested to know how you manage with the cassettes.

Thanks John, I'll let you all know in due course. At the moment I have only a vague idea of how they will turn out.

You'll have to wait a couple of weeks or so though until I get back from two weeks of sampling the local red nectar. :cool wink

:cheers

Last edited on Tue Oct 11th, 2011 10:46 am by pnwood

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Some smart looking woodwork there Woody and a great method of construction.  No risk of warps or "winds" using box girders.:thumbs

Where did you get the adjustable feet ?  They look good and sturdy.

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Peter

The feet, connectors and dowels I use to fasten the baseboards together all came from http://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk. No connection just a satisfied customer.

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pnwood wrote: ....................all came from http://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk. No connection just a satisfied customer.
Me too Woody. ;-)

I buy my dowels etc. from them too but hadn't seen those feet.  I'm going to need some in my attic for sure. :cheers

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Well I've finally finished the fiddle yard baseboard. :double thumb

I now realise that it would have been much easier to have built this board at the same time as the others and NOT let my enthusiasm to get on with scenicery get in the way. :oops:

Anyway here is the weekend's progress.

First up the profiles where the two boards meet. To minimise the joint it was important to fit these whilst the boards were bolted together. This of course runs the risk of getting glue between the joint and sticking the two boards together, not what I want to happen. So I slipped some paper between the two boards before bolting together. That way any seepage will just stick the paper to the one board which can easily be removed.:thumbs








Next the front profile board which was much easier, you just need to have a clear idea of how the land will take shape along this edge.






The backscene boards all have to be removable as Much Murkle lives in my cellar and if it ever needs to come out will have to fit through the hatch. This is where things got a little tricky trying to fit them in-situ, especially the angled one which was a right bar steward to get right.






A view of the compact fiddle yard area. I think if Much Murkle ever ventures away from home then I will need to have some sort of bolt on extension to give me a bit more "fiddling" space.






Finally a bit of playing with track for the Cider Factory (more on that later).






Next job will be to lay the track.



:cheers

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Nick very interesting and excellent workmanship.

But, as I comprehend the pictures, I cannot see how getting at the fiddle yard from the factory side would be practical; can you please explain how you will do that.

I wouldn't want to reach over if that is what is required.

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Quite simple really, the layout will be operated from the rear when I'm on my own.

All uncoupling on the layout is done remotely by electromagnets so there is no need to lean over.

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As you say, quite simple. But will you be able to see what is going on ?

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The baseboard tops are 43" (approx 1100mm) above floor level and the back scenes are 10" (approx 250mm) above that. I'm quite tall at 5' 11 3/4" so seeing and reaching over is not a problem on the main boards but may be slightly so on the fiddle yard board where the back scene is set near the middle of the board.

Before the back scenes are painted I may decide to reduce them in height by a couple of inches. My theory is that keep them tall until I know for sure how high I want them. You can easily reduce the height but it's almost impossible to add it back.

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Hi Nick

Just had a good look through this thread and have to say what a beautiful layout you've made there. I can feel the realism coming out of the pics. You've made very good use of the space, with just the right mix of railway/non-railway.

How are you getting-on with the FY?

Gra 

 

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Thanks Gra

I'm guilty of getting on with things rather than posting recently. The work on this board is almost complete and i need to do a major update. I'm hoping I might be able to do something later this evening. If not it will have to wait until next week as I have other commitments over the weekend.

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Well, I'm sure the update will be well worth waiting for Nick.

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I've been so engrossed working on Much Murkle I have neglected the thread for more than two months :shock:

This is how the new Fiddle Yard board looked back in November.



The track was fixed down, ballasted and weathered in the same way I have described before. Scenic contours again using methods I've described before were carried out to provide the roadway over the bridge and the embankments around the Cider factory site. The yard area was built up using a layer of thick card. The score lines are a result of using the flat surface to cut the card lattice strips :oops:
 


The embankments were covered with my usual method of plasterers scrim tape over the lattice work followed by plaster bandage and finally a textured coating.



After giving the embankment a base layer of greenery, the yard area was then covered with a layer of pva glue and then a layer of modelling clay


 
Whilst all this was going on I was also busy making the Factory buildings in low / half relief.

1. The Cider House Building (where the stuff is brewed)



2. The Chimney and Apple dump store



including apples



The original stone built Cider House, now converted into the factory office and coopers shop



The final structure is a loading dock. This has only just been completed and has not yet been fixed in position permanently.



Finally, an aerial view of the yard and a view from the lane without the loading dock in position.






Lots of work detailing this scene will be required. Crates of bottled cider and barrels on the dock. Empty barrels around the yard. Apples being delivered, road signs etc etc.

:cheers



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I have thoroughly enjoyed watching that come together Nick. Do you have a track plan of the layout by the way. I have been trying to pice one together from what we can see but it isn't always easy and I do like track plans.

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Bob, this is the best I can do I'm afraid.




[img]">It's not to scale but to give some idea there are three boards 2 @ 1200mm long and one @ 900mm long (fiddle yard). From from left to right the joint between board 1 & 2 is just short of the end of the platform. The joint between board 2 & 3 is between the two bridges that form the break between the station and fiddle yard / cider factory. I'm quite pleased with the joint I've managed to achieve on this board :cool:

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Great stuff, Nick.  :thumbs   It's interesting that Management chose to pave the whole yard, yet neglected the spaces between the rails.  It would make much more sense to go the whole hog so wagons could run around more easily.

Just a thought.  ;-)

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You have created a great scene there, Nick. I particularly like the half-relief buildings which really look the part. I wonder if the local stationmaster likes his scrumpy?

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That diagram tells me all I need to know Nick and now I have the complete picture. Thanks a lot.

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I too have just had a look at your whole posting and it's so interesting.   I'm very impressed with your modelling Nick and am particularly intrigued by the apples; can you elaborate on these please?

Ken.

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Great stuff, Nick.  :thumbs   It's interesting that Management chose to pave the whole yard, yet neglected the spaces between the rails.  It would make much more sense to go the whole hog so wagons could run around more easily.

Just a thought.  ;-)

It's just a build up of dirt Max. I did debate filling in between the tracks but the droppers on the couplings I use (DG) drop below the rail head when uncoupling and there are a couple of electro magnets in this area. I have decided to make a couple of infilled bits for carts to cross at the end of the dock.

Geoff R wrote: You have created a great scene there, Nick. I particularly like the half-relief buildings which really look the part. I wonder if the local stationmaster likes his scrumpy?
He does Geoff, oh yes he does ;-)

Robert wrote: That diagram tells me all I need to know Nick and now I have the complete picture. Thanks a lot.
You are welcome Bob.

Ken wrote: I too have just had a look at your whole posting and it's so interesting.   I'm very impressed with your modelling Nick and am particularly intrigued by the apples; can you elaborate on these please?

Ken.

Thanks Ken

The apples are in fact poppy seeds glued to a suitable former. I used a bit of reject plaster casting but it could just as easily be some layered card or polystyrene. Paint it green first then apply a layer of pva glue and sprinkle the seeds on. leave it to dry thoroughly and re-apply if necessary until you get full coverage. I then gave it a good coat of yellowy green acrylic, followed by a dry brush of a mid green, followed by another very light dry brush of red.

Took me ages to find something that would look convincing as 4mm scale apples are only 1mm in diameter.  

Last edited on Fri Feb 10th, 2012 08:45 am by pnwood

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Ken beat me to it Woody.  Those apples are wonderful.  I studied them for ages trying to work out what they were before asking a stupid question.  I'd never have guessed poppy seeds .......:pathead

The whole thing is a little (or not so little) masterpiece.

Yiou mentioned how pleased you are with the 2nd joint.  What's the magic to it ?



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Petermac wrote: Ken beat me to it Woody.  Those apples are wonderful.  I studied them for ages trying to work out what they were before asking a stupid question.  I'd never have guessed poppy seeds .......:pathead

The whole thing is a little (or not so little) masterpiece.

Yiou mentioned how pleased you are with the 2nd joint.  What's the magic to it ?




Thanks Peter

Ahhh! Yes the joint. There should have been a picture attached to go with that comment :oops:

Here it is


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pnwood wrote: ......Took me ages to find something that would look convincing as 4mm scale apples are only 1mm in diameter.  


Oh well, I'd better not try it in "N" gauge then!  :roll::lol:     (Thinks: might be able to do Grapefruit though; trouble is I've never heard of Grapefruit Cider!!!!!)  :cry:

Ken

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'Wow Woody!' seems to fit nicely. Very convincing modelling, to a high standard and very nicely explained and photographed. I appreciate the effort you have taken and I'm grateful for your having taken the time to post.

 

 :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs :cheers

 

Doug

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Over the last few days, I've been clearing out the cellar a bit as the time had come to put all three boards of MM together for the very first time 
 
Yesterday everything went together well and after a track cleaning session trains ran on MM for the first time in ages and from the end of the station platform to the end of the Cider Factory yard for the first time ever. :cool:
 
Everything worked ok apart from the point on the Cider factory board has been wired the wrong way round and throws opposite to what I expected. I didn't notice this when I tested it originally There is also a sticky point on the release crossover. My point motors are peco solenoids and I seem to recall someone mentioning WD40 to improve their operation ?? Has anyone done this and is it successful ?
 
Last night I planted  a hedgerow along the fence line behind the station building
 


A few close up shots







I’ve also serviced this loco.




I bought it on Ebay some time ago and it has featured on a few photos of MM earlier in the thread. It was not a great runner, ok at speed but slow running was poor. No good at all for operations with DG couplings.  I decided if I couldn’t get it working satidsfactorily then it would be going back on Ebay. I stripped it and gave it a service, cleaned the contacts, wheels and oiled it. Ran it in both ways for 30 minutes in each direction on the rolling road. Put it on a piece of test track 450mm long. The slow starting was impeccable and it took 1min 45 sec to traverse the length of track. I don’t know what mph that works out to but it looked impressively slow. I now feel that it’s worth some time to change the couplings and do a bit of detailing and light weathering to improve its looks.
 
I’ve also been quietly building some wagon kits and weathering them. Here’s a few photos of my efforts. They are  Coopercraft kits except for the low sided engineering wagon in the first photo which is an old Ian Kirk kit and the Brake van which is an old Airfix RTR. All have Alan Gibson wheels.







Not too bad for a complete weathering novice I think ;-)  ....... and I have a few more on the go.

:cheers

Last edited on Fri Feb 17th, 2012 06:10 pm by pnwood

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Excellent stuff Woody. :thumbs

A few comments - the cattle pens look stunning - just the right amount of weathering and a hint of rust on the metal railings - superb.

What is the hedge ?  It also look just like those overgrown rough hedges so common along railways.  As there are no adjoining fields, there's no farmer to cut them so they just become wild.

I also think your weathering on the wagons is great.  Maybe the odd "replaced plank" would improve them but the obvious improvement would be to get rid of those moulding marks on the Toad buffers .........:roll::roll:

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Petermac wrote: Excellent stuff Woody. :thumbs

A few comments - the cattle pens look stunning - just the right amount of weathering and a hint of rust on the metal railings - superb.

What is the hedge ?  It also look just like those overgrown rough hedges so common along railways.  As there are no adjoining fields, there's no farmer to cut them so they just become wild.

I also think your weathering on the wagons is great.  Maybe the odd "replaced plank" would improve them but the obvious improvement would be to get rid of those moulding marks on the Toad buffers .........:roll::roll:


....go on, go on, tell him about the need to weather the shiny rail on the covered wagon, go on, I dare you! I'll get you at play time if you upset my friend Woody....  :)

'Bambi Doofer'

 

[Gee, I can be sickening at times, can't I...]

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Are you trying to get me a detention ? :twisted::twisted:

Please write out 100 times "I must not get at Petermac by insinuating that he is being a little pedantic"

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Petermac wrote: Excellent stuff Woody. :thumbs

A few comments - the cattle pens look stunning - just the right amount of weathering and a hint of rust on the metal railings - superb.

What is the hedge ?  It also look just like those overgrown rough hedges so common along railways.  As there are no adjoining fields, there's no farmer to cut them so they just become wild.

I also think your weathering on the wagons is great.  Maybe the odd "replaced plank" would improve them but the obvious improvement would be to get rid of those moulding marks on the Toad buffers .........:roll::roll:

You've seen the cattle pens before Peter Herebut it was a long ago ;-)

The hedge is mainly woodland scenics fine foliage with a mix of scatters added at the base of the fence and creeping along the wires.

Point taken on the moulding lines. I'll have to inspect them a bit more closely in future. :thumbs

dooferdog wrote:
....go on, go on, tell him about the need to weather the shiny rail on the covered wagon, go on, I dare you! I'll get you at play time if you upset my friend Woody....  :)

'Bambi Doofer'

  [Gee, I can be sickening at times, can't I...]

Peter obviously realised that it would eventually be covered by a tarpaulin in due course :roll: 

I think Peter is right you need to write out some lines but they should read "I must think further ahead in future" :mutley

Last edited on Wed Feb 22nd, 2012 01:55 pm by pnwood

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I've been very quiet for a while as I've been beavering away getting as much done on Much Murkle ready for its first outing at the MRG members day.

I was very concerned about how well it would travel in the car. Having never transported a layout before I had visions of every bump I hit on the road ballast, grass and cows would be dislodged and I would unpack it to find an unholy mess in the bottom of the crate. I needn't have worried, despite what seemed to be a couple of deep ruts in the road that made the car shudder, everything stayed stuck down :RO

I had lots of very complimentary comments about the scenics The only thing I personally was dissapointed with, was that one of the board joints would not pull up as tight as it should probably due to the change in enviroment.

From my point of view, the cassettes for the fiddle yard were less than satisfactory. This was not a problem with the system per se but more about my poor method of construction due to cost and time restraints. They were difficult to line up properly and to load up with stock. Trying to operate on my own without an experienced (or trained) fiddle yard operator was almost impossible although my wife Janet tried her best, bless her. If MM ever goes to a proper exhibition I will need to find some experienced help.

There was quite a bit of interest in the DG couplings I was using. However instead of being a complete 'hands off' experience uncoupling was, well, a little unreliable to say the least. I forgot to take my coupling height jig and as a consequence of travel, some of the couplings did get knocked about. They are quite delicate and in anticipation I had knocked up an uncoupling pole from a coffee stirrer and a magnet the night before. It got used a LOT :(

I had checked and cleaned the track and all wheels the day before and was generally pleased with the running of the locos. The only one that caused any problem was the Bachmann Prairie that was ok going forward but was reluctant to start going backwards. I was very impressed with the slow running of all of my Bachmann locos.

All in all a very pleasurable experience for me being allowed to show off Much Murkle for the first time, but also a huge learning curve. I now have a list of things to do and improvements to make. Watch this space.

Here's some photos taken on the day

A couple of general views to start





All is quiet at the Cider Factory even though there is plenty to load into the Mink





Pannier 8700 shunting





Signalman Percy Fleetwood looks on and wonders were the crew of the pannier have got to?



Head Porter, Jack Collins is in conversation with Marjorie Edwards about the late arrival of the 10.27 where she is meeting her sister who is visiting from Ledbury.



The arrival of the 10.27 Railcar on a through service from Ledbury.

[img]">

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VBG :thumbs

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:???::???::???: Hmmm half of my post above has disappeared.

Continued.....






Meanwhile 8700 continues shunting. Coalman John Gummery is wondering who the h*ll that is, taking photographs from the other side of the fence.



Finally a view of the yard



I was persuaded at the weekend that I should approach the model press which I did emailing the editors of Hornby Magazine, BRM, Model Rail and Railway Modeller each with a couple of photos. I am pleased to say, no actually I'm delighted to say that Much Murkle should be featured in Hornby Magazine in the July issue.:mrgreen: Trevor Jones will be visiting me shortly to photograph it and I'm really excited to see what a professional photograher can make of it. I'll keep you all posted. :thumbs

:cheers

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Superb modelling and well deserved recognition.

Ken

 

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I must say Nick, those photos look amazing! You have done a superb job on MM.

Wayne

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Indeed so and the more I see of that station building the more I like it. Did you tell us what it is Nick or have I missed that info somewhere along the way.

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Robert wrote:
Indeed so and the more I see of that station building the more I like it. Did you tell us what it is Nick or have I missed that info somewhere along the way.

I detailed the construction of the station building some time ago Bob. It is in the index here.

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=5893&forum_id=14

It has had a bit of detailing done since then, roof vents enamel signs etc.

Sol, Ken and Wayne. Thanks for the kind comments they're appreciated.

Last edited on Wed Apr 25th, 2012 11:35 am by pnwood

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Just had a good look at the photographs Nick. Brilliant and certainly something that a beginner like me can only dream about building, truly inspirational.

Last edited on Thu May 3rd, 2012 01:31 pm by

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Downline wrote:
Just had a good look at the photographs Nick. Brilliant and certainly something that a beginner like me can only dream about building, truly inspirational.

To be quite honest apart from dabbling once or twice over many years and achieving very little, when i started Much Murkle three years ago I would have considered myself a beginner as I'd never got as far as scenery before and would never have dreamt that I could have achieved something which other people seem to think is good.

Don't get too ambitious with your plans, ask lots of questions here and on any other forums you might frequent (there is no such thing as a dumb question by the way), work methodically, make a small diorama to experiment with scenic techniques and you might be amazed at what you can achieve.

There's lots of threads here and a great index which can help you. Good luck

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Well, Trevor Jones has been and gone and the photos for Hornby Mag are in the 'can'.

Trevor is a wonderful guy and was very patient explaining the equipment he was using and how he was going about setting up the shots, lighting etc. There were some quite unusual stock movements and Much Murkle will appear to be a lot busier than usual I think.

The 4 hours  he spent setting up and taking what will amount to probably only about a dozen shots just flew by. If the shots end up half as good as Trevor seems to think they will, I will certainly be in for a treat and you all might like them too.



The text for the article has also been submitted to Hornby and I just have to sit back now and see what ends up being published.


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OK Nick, don't forget to let us know please, what issue , so we can keep an eye out for it.

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Sol wrote:
OK Nick, don't forget to let us know please, what issue , so we can keep an eye out for it.

I don't think I'll be keeping it quiet Ron :mutley

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Wow Nick, this is superb work.  Congrats on the Hornby Mag thing.

John

 

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Brossard wrote:
Wow Nick, this is superb work.  Congrats on the Hornby Mag thing.

John

 


Thank you kind sir.

The article text has been approved, thank goodness as I didn't fancy rewriting 2500 words. All things being well it should be in the July issue which goes on sale sometime mid June.

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This layout just oozes with atmosphere. Seeing the shot of the pictures being taken by Trevor made me realise just how compact this layout is, yet from the individual photographs it looks much larger and more spacious. I just love that station building. I look forward to seeing the final pictures in Hornby Magazine.

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Congrats on the mag article , fantasic work Nick :doublethumb

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Thanks Guys

I've just come home form a weeks holiday to find a CD with all of Trevor's photos and I have to say they look great. Unfortunately I can't share them with you as they are Hornby copyright but after publication I will see if they will allow me to post them on the forum.

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Nick,

        I have just read through all of the posts re the building of your layout.   Superb modelling and a great inspiration to other modellers.  I'm really looking forward, as I'm sure we all are, to seeing Much Murkle in print.  Congratulations.

Terry

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Thank you Terry

Update on the use of Hornby's photos. I have permission to post them here but not until after publication. :thumbs

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I really look forward to seeing them.
Trevor just 'looks' as if he knows exactly what he's doing.

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With the magazine now published (today) Hornby Magazine have very kindly allowed me to share Trevor Jone's photos with you including a few that didn't feature in the article. Please bear in mind that these are reproduced with Hornby's permission and copyright remains with them. For this reason they are not suitable for header nominations apart from the fact that each and everyone of them feature a photoshopped background

Bear in mind that the scenes do not reflect the operating practice at Much Murkle. Everything was placed just to get a good photo.
At times there are 3 locos busy in the station yard

The photoshopped sky looks good, but I'm not so sure about some of the ones with background scenes added. It would appear Mike Wild had the same thoughts as most of those have not been used in the article.























A few more to come in the next post....

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...continued from post above













:cheers 

Last edited on Fri Jun 8th, 2012 03:02 pm by pnwood

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Gobsmackingly good!  Amazing. 

Cheers

John

 

 

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That man can certainly light a scene for a photo but then the subject matter is pretty good too.

Really great shots of a really great layout Woody. :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

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Tremendous!   Superb photos of a great layout which is one of my alltime favourites on YMR.

Ken.

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I agree about not using the pictures for Header photographs which is a pity as I can see half a dozen prospects among them. The same will apply to jigsaw puzzles as they could finish up anywhere. None of this detracts of course from some fine examples of the railway modellers art. Love 'em.

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MAGNIFICENT!
Inspirational!
Gobsmacking!

Khris

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Great photos of great layout! :thumbs

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Nick,

      I've just read the article in Hornby Magazine.  Looks fantastic.  Definately the best article in the magazine.  Nice plug for 'Your Model Railway' too.

Terry

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Beatiful shots of a beautiful layout!! Must get the mag now,but I disagree about the photoshopped backgrounds,I think they really compliment the layout!!!
Lovely Jubbly.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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Thanks for all the kind comments. It was really interesting watching Trevor Jones set up his shots and yes Peter he really does know how to light a layout and bring it to life.

The one downside of having such a good selection of superb photos is that it doesn't leave much scope for me to take some interesting photo of the layout in future. How can I compete with what Trevor has produced with my digital compact? :cry:  One way might to be to take some black and white shots I suppose and I'll be giving this a go soon.

There is still a lot of detailing work I want to do on MM such as point rodding, wagon loads etc and I also want to improve much of the stock so you haven't heard the last of it just yet.

Thanks to everyone for your support in getting MM this far :thumbs

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I, too, like the pics with the countryside backgrounds. Super layout, well done.

Last edited on Mon Jun 11th, 2012 07:47 am by raveninblack

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Just spotted the cracking write up and pictures in the magazine, the last picture is great.  Well done keep up the good work.

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Thanks,

I've tried a few B+W shots that I'd like to share










For anyone interested there is some video of Much Murkle HERE

:cheers

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I have been very unhappy with the cassettes that I hurriedly knocked up for Much Murkle's first outing to the MRG meet back in April. One of the main problems with these was that my cutting was not accurate enough. A millimetre or two out of alignment made all the difference between good running and derailments and also unreliable power connection.

I've finally redesigned them and got a friend of a friend who runs a joinery company to cut me some accurate strips of MDF for the new design.

Aluminium angle and flat strip are used at the ends only for alignment and power connection. Stock will run on Peco track as before. The angle strip sandwiches the Peco sleepers and will therefore provide a consistent and accurate width for the cassette

I've had enough cut to make up to 10 stock cassettes of lengths between 600 and 900mm and 10 loco cassettes of between 200 and 300mm. I doubt I will need this many but as I had to pay for a full sheet of MDF I thought that I might as well get the most out of it that I could.

I've also designed a stable, free standing rack to sit on a table to store some of the cassettes and this has been pre cut as well.

The main problem with the Mk1 cassettes was alignment. Due to my (only slightly) inaccurate cutting, the width of the cassettes varied by approx 2mm and slight variances in the centering of the rail only compounded the problem. This view shows the misalignment. It does look like one rail is in line and the other misaligned but the camera angle doesn't pick up that they are actually both slightly out of line. The other compounding problem that can be seen is that the sides are not square. All in all a problem for reliable running so they had to go.



I prepared the aluminium ends for the first cassette and docking station. These must be raw aluminium, not anodised, or it won't conduct electricity. These are made from 20 x 15 x 1.5mm angle and 20 x 2mm flat. The angles is cut to lengths of 50mm (35mm for the docking station) and the flat to a length of 70mm. Four of each are required for each cassette and two of each for the docking station.



For the docking station one flat bar is marked up with a line 9mm from the bottom and holes punched at 10 & 25mm from the end.



This bar and another is placed inside the docking station angle with all three ends aligning.



Placed in a vice ready for drilling. If you think you are only seeing two pieces of metal here you are wrong. Because the bars are placed inside the angle the end of the angle is slightly behind the second bar.



Using a new drill bit. These are the 'dogs danglies'. Available from Screwfix I have not found a better drill bit. They self centre and go through most metals like butter. Well worth £2.49  The bit is 5mm diameter.



Once the holes have been drilled they can be assembled with 5mm nuts and bolts. I've used plain washers one side and spring washers on the other. The flat bars go either side of the angle upright. The photo below shows the general arrangement with the two pairs on the left and middle being the ends of one cassette and the pair on the far right being the dock (or another cassette).



As you can see they just push together and the cassettes will be reversible. They could be made single ended by having both plain angles at one end and both connectors at the other. Hopefully the electrical contact should be good enough without any further modification. but I have a solution ready if not. As you can see the contact must be pretty good to be able to do this.



Here's the really clever bit. To overcome the track alignment problem the angle will trap the peco track by butting up closely to the sleepers giving a constant width without any need to measure.



Before doing anymore the original docking station which looked like this, had to go.



A sharp wide chisel was used to ease it away from the board top. Although it was glued down with PVA and in use was sufficiently robust it was amazingingly easy to do. Rather than try to get the whole thing off in one piece thin slivers were removed gradualyy whittling it down to the original baord top in about 5minutes.

A new piece of MDF was cut and laid and a new piece of bridging track made up.  It needs to be very rigid so Peco flexible cannot really be used. Because it is such a short piece it is also difficult to use track gauges in situ so here's my method for making it using a piece of flexi track. First make sure that the track end is square and cut off the end sleeper. Using a pre-prepared copper clad sleeper (make sure that you cut through the cooper in the middle to avoid shorts) solder it to the ends of the track leaving 2mm or so overhanging. Then cut the next two away. You will now have something that looks like this.



Cut the rear of the next two sleepers and slide them towards the copper clad sleeper. Solder another sleeper in the gap and repeat until you have the correct length required. It will now look like this. Three was enough for my purposes.

Last edited on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 04:07 pm by pnwood

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Hmmmm it seems that the last part of my post above disappeared.

So to carry on....

Cut the rear of the next two sleepers and slide them towards the copper clad sleeper. Solder another sleeper in the gap and repeat until you have the correct length required. It will now look like this. Three was enough for my purposes.



Cut the track at the required length and remove the plastic sleepers if you wish (I did). Place the track on the docking station, apply glue (pva), line it up and stick it down placing plenty of weight on it until set.

Picture of the docking station and track. As you can see I made a mistake when drilling the holes. The track feeds can be seen poking up through the board on the middle sleeper and feeds to the connectors can be seen on the third sleeper. The photo has revealed that the left hand feed is not soldered too well and I'll attend to that later although it seems to conduct well.

[img]">

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What the.... it's happened again. Most of the post has disappeared. I'll try again

Cut the track at the required length and remove the plastic sleepers if you wish (I did). Place the track on the docking station, apply glue (pva), line it up and stick it down placing plenty of weight on it until set.

Picture of the docking station and track. As you can see I made a mistake when drilling the holes. The track feeds can be seen poking up through the board on the middle sleeper and feeds to the connectors can be seen on the third sleeper. The photo has revealed that the left hand feed is not soldered too well and I'll attend to that later although it seems to conduct well.



A view directly above



I've completed the first two cassettes.

Two of these at 600mm long



The loco cassettes will be seperate (and shorter). I haven't built any yet but they will join like this



The two 600mm cassettes joined.



This wouldn't happen in practice as the overhang is too great but you get the idea. I am currently building a 1000mm cassette that will slightly overhang the end which is for the quarry train. This one will not have a seperate loco cassette. As it is a self contained train and does not pick up other wagons when entering the station and being reversed it doesn't matter which way the couplings face, therefore the whole cassette can just be reversed each time.

I need to work out my stock movements before building anymore cassettes but I will certainly need at least a couple more @ 600mm + some @ 750mm + cassettes for each of the locos and Railcar of between 200mm and 320mm.

They work like a dream compared to the old ones  :thumbs


Last edited on Fri Jul 20th, 2012 04:18 pm by pnwood

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Watching this with intense interest Nick.

John

 

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I'm new to the forum Woody and obviously its the first time I have seen your layout, wow its a stunner and the photos are so realistic its almost like being there, very inspirational.

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Thanks guys

I've been thinking of a way to stock the stock accidently being driven off the end or dropped of the end whilst handling the cassettes. After some thought I've come up with this, a piece of bent wire cut from an old wire coat hanger. Any springy wire would do though. The dimensions are to suit my cassettes but the most important one is to have the top slightly less wide than the width of the cassette and make sure that the two sides are the same length as each other.



Drill two 3mm holes in the sides approx 15mm from the top and ends of the MDF



Insert the short ends into the holes



By making the dimension of the top of the wire slightly less than the overall width of the cassette it holds itself in place quite nicely in the open position.

The closed position



As you can see below it retains the stock just above the buffer level.



This wire is plastic coated so won't cause a short across the connectors. Where I've bent it the plastic coating has cracked and broken off so to be on the safe side I am going to wrap some insulation tape around it as well. This would also be necessary if I have to use bare wire hangers for the other cassettes that I will need to do. At the same time I will try and wrap some thin foam around the end to protect the stock.

:cheers




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That's a great idea Woody. :thumbs  i was about to say these coat hangers are 10 a penny from the dry cleaners but they, being skinflints, don't use plastic coated ones ......:twisted::twisted:

Maybe a bit of foam rubber or something around where the stock sits would help protect the more delicate stock .........:roll::roll:

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An elegant solution, Woody.  :thumbs  You could always slip some heat shrink tube over the wire before you bend it, Peter.

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Never thought of that Max. :thumbs

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MaxSouthOz wrote:
An elegant solution, Woody.  :thumbs  You could always slip some heat shrink tube over the wire before you bend it


Excellent idea Max, thanks I'll see what I can get hold of


Petermac wrote:
Never thought of that Max. :thumbs


Nor me ;-)

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Hi Nick,

The magic letters GWR caught my eye in the 'Recent Topics' so I thought I'd have a quick look. Well ......... three hours later I'm sitting here utterly gobsmacked and completely lost for words. The attention to detail is amazing  and when I saw the Rosebay Willow Herb and the Poppies I was taken back to those halcyon days of my youth in the mid 50s. This is truly modelling at its absolute best and I have bookmarked it as I will be coming back time and time again because I just couldn't absorb it all in just one sitting. I hope you don't mind but I will probably be stealing a few of your ideas for my own N Gauge GWR layout when the time comes.

Many congratulations on the Hornby article which is a thoroughly deserved accolade to what must be one of the best GWR layouts around. Thank you so much for sharing your layout with us.

Incidentally the round ended bricks were called 'Bull-nose' bricks and were generally made in Staffordshire Blues though they were also available as both Red and Yellow Engineering bricks. They were not, to the best of my knowledge, made in common brick though.


Last edited on Wed Jul 25th, 2012 06:38 am by Chinahand

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Hi Trevor

Three hours of reading through my thread :shock: Couldn't you sleep :lol:

Thanks for your kind comments. It's been a very enjoyable journey to get this far but it helps that Much Murkle is quite a small layout. I have put effort into the detail, trying to get the scene looking right. I still have more detailing to do especially using figures for cameo scenes but I have to be careful not to overdo it.

Planned projects are to replace the ground signals with cast items and add point rodding.

I was initially puzzled by your reference to the bricks. Being a Building Surveyor I know that round ended bricks are called 'bull nose' so I assumed you had picked it up in your read through somewhere. So I went back to the start of the thread and fortunately I think the reference is on the first page where I referred to 'capping bricks' ??

This is a generic term used in my home area in Lincolnshire for the top layer of brick on a wall (maybe in other areas as well), usually engineering brick quality as you rightly say but not necessarily bull nosed or cant bricks.

If it was another reference then could you please point out the post number so that I can have a look :thumbs

PS I think you've made a great start with the history and plans for your layout and I'll be watching it with interest as it develops.

Last edited on Wed Jul 25th, 2012 08:53 am by pnwood

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Hi Nick,

The bull-nose brick reference related to your little weigh bridge office here http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=4708&forum_id=21&page=2#p84297 and some of the comments that followed regarding the curved corner brickwork. I was a QS for 45 years before retiring in 2009 and I can vaguely remember my early days as an Articled Pupil when I was learning to 'take off' from drawings of a power station and having E.O. for Bull nose facing bricks as an item. Happy days ;-).

I don't take Hornby Magazine any more as the cost of sending magazines out to China is horrendous and any magazines I did try to have sent here just 'disappeared' in the post so I will have to try an get hold of a back copy when I return to UK in a couple of weeks. I take it that Much Murkle featured in the June issue  ?

Seeing some of the pictures of the tree lined track and the cows in the field took me back to my childhood in rural Shropshire they are so realistic.

If I can get even half way near the standard of Much Murkle with my Market Havering layout I will be more than satisified, particularly as it will be in N Gauge. Meanwhile I shall be following your further work with great interest.

Last edited on Wed Jul 25th, 2012 09:26 am by Chinahand

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Chinahand wrote:
Hi Nick,

The bull-nose brick reference related to your little weigh bridge office here http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=4708&forum_id=21&page=2#p84297 and some of the comments that followed regarding the curved corner brickwork. I was a QS for 45 years before retiring in 2009 and I can vaguely remember my early days as an Articled Pupil when I was learning to 'take off' from drawings of a power station and having E.O. for Bull nose facing bricks as an item. Happy days ;-).

I don't take Hornby Magazine any more as the cost of sending magazines out to China is horrendous and any magazines I did try to have sent here just 'disappeared' in the post so I will have to try an get hold of a back copy when I return to UK in a couple of weeks. I take it that Much Murkle featured in the June issue  ?

Seeing some of the pictures of the tree lined track and the cows in the field took me back to my childhood in rural Shropshire they are so realistic.

If I can get even half way near the standard of Much Murkle with my Market Havering layout I will be more than satisified, particularly as it will be in N Gauge. Meanwhile I shall be following your further work with great interest.


Ah! I now see where it came from. I will use the excuse of replying in the terminology that Sol used in his post that I was responding to. :roll: Happy days for me too, mainly arguing with the QS's :lol:

I'm not sure if you can get Hornby Magazine as a download when abroad, you can in the UK. It was the July issue Trevor.

If you are interested Trevor, I described the construction of most of my buildings in separate threads. If you search for 'Much Murkle' in the Scratchbuilding Forum you should find them.

Last edited on Wed Jul 25th, 2012 11:18 am by pnwood

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Why does everyone think of QSs as being the Devil's henchmen. :twisted: We've all got our jobs to do (or in my case 'had' our jobs to do) and, unfortunately, a lot of engineers etc. seem to forget that the object of the exercise is not to just finish the build but to actually make a profit at it. Shareholders tend to get upset when you don't  :lol:

Anyway, enough shop talk. I will certainly be re-reading your thread several times as I'm sure I missed a lot of the the subtleties when I read it the first time due to the incredible photos. I will look out for the other links next time.

As I will be returning to lve in the UK in just a few days now I will look at the Honrby web site where I'm sure they will have a back copies facility.

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Chinahand wrote:
Why does everyone think of QSs as being the Devil's henchmen. :twisted: We've all got our jobs to do (or in my case 'had' our jobs to do) and, unfortunately, a lot of engineers etc. seem to forget that the object of the exercise is not to just finish the build but to actually make a profit at it. Shareholders tend to get upset when you don't  :lol:



:mutley

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Well I looked into Max's idea of shrink wrapping the wire and was just about to buy some when Janet came up with a whole load of wire coat hangers from her work that had a much more flexible coating, so problem solved. I wrapped the ends in some thin foam and fixed it with a wrapping of insulation tape. Cheap and simple does the job

I've built some more cassettes and have also knocked up a storage rack for them.

Cassettes built so far
4 x 600mm
1 x 1000mm
4 x 300mm



I need to have a running session now and work through the sequence to find out how many more cassettes I need.

Look out for some photos of running trials soon.

:cheers

Last edited on Wed Aug 1st, 2012 09:32 am by pnwood

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I went through the Hornby pictures on a previous occasion and found myself saying...'Oh! Yes!' then 'Oh! 'Yes!' and 'Oh! Yes!'.

I've just been back through them, and I found myself saying..'Oh! Yes!' then 'Oh! 'Yes!' and 'Oh! Yes!'.

I expect I'll do the same at a later date, too.

Well done, and congratulations on being published,

 

Jealous Doofer

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Thanks Doug

After having a bit of a running session I've worked out that I still need to build a few more cassettes, mainly for the engines, but I'm getting a bit of a rest from cassette building so I taken a few new photos. Hope you enjoy them.

The local haulier Derek Dyer and Harold Bowman discuss tactics for the forthcoming Much Murkle versus Kempstone Annual Pocket Billiards challenge match.



They are still at it in black and white



5531 prepares to pull away after taking on water



Rancoutt's is busy today with vans from all four companies in evidence. The roof of the GW van on the far right looks like it needs some maintenance.



A different view of the factory yard.



Plenty of apples arriving



After bringing the B set in, 3217 enters the loop to run around.



A couple of cows show interest at what's going on over the fence.



5531 brings in the afternoon goods



Having 'knocked off' at the end of the day the Platelaying Gang will be in trouble for not putting their tools away.



:cheers

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Another crop of really stunning photos Woody - you must be thrilled with the way it's turned out. :pathead

During this Olympic fortnight, please keep us informed of the heats in the forthcoming Kempstone vs Much Murkle tournament - we're on the edge of our seats :roll: .............:mutley:mutley:mutley

Joking aside, that really is one heck of a good picture. :cheers

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That truck looks like mine in my Bridge thread ,  in that the left hand side spring has gone exclam: 
Also both trucks,  from the MM    & the D&S , have no registration plates on the front :mutley

 

Outside of that, yes, very nice scenes.

 

 

On Edit, just re-checked my truck - it does have registration plates but has more of a lean than the MM truck !

Last edited on Fri Aug 3rd, 2012 06:13 pm by Sol

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Petermac wrote:
Another crop of really stunning photos Woody - you must be thrilled with the way it's turned out. :pathead

During this Olympic fortnight, please keep us informed of the heats in the forthcoming Kempstone vs Much Murkle tournament - we're on the edge of our seats :roll: .............:mutley:mutley:mutley

Joking aside, that really is one heck of a good picture. :cheers


Thanks Peter, yes I am pleased but there is still lots I would like to do or improve. I know now what is meant when said that a layout is never finished.

Apparently Derek and Harold have decided that to win the pocket billiards they need bigger pockets :shock::roll::lol:



Ron, the registration plate is one of those little jobs that get forgotten about in the bigger picture, along with the hauliers sign on the roof. I'll get round to it at some point. Not sure about the LH spring, it might be the camera angle. It can't be rectified now in any case with it all glued together.

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Having completed the cassettes and played trains for a while, my thoughts have now turned to improving Much Murkle's presentation in the hope that I might one day get that elusive first exhibition invite.

It was always intended that MM would have a fascia to the front and side with lighting and coupled with a design I saw on a layout at Railex earlier this year and the good fortune of acquiring sufficient quantity of FREE slotted shelving from my wife's employers I have made a start.

Six upright slots are bolted to the baseboards, one at each end inset 70mm from the end. The biggest problem was getting them aligned so that the slots were completely level to each other. Lucky I have a laser level

Two of the uprights



Bolted to the baseboard, they are surprisingly strong.



The brackets which slot in. I drilled two holes through the side of the first bracket and then used this as a jig clamped to the others to ensure that the holes  were all in the same position.



I had a number of hardboard strips cut to exactly 100mm wide, left by some roofers when they laid the flat roof on my garage extension last year. I knew they would come in handy some day

I cut them into 600mm lengths and again using the first clamp as a jig drilled holes so that I could bolt one strip to each side of the bracket. The top back corner was cut off to ensure it didn't foul the upright when removing it. The photo shows the bracket temporarily in place.



Hardboard is quite flexible on its own so needs to be braced. The brackets are 12mm wide so I sourced some 12mm thick softwood to provide the "meat in the sandwich" which provides all the stiffness needed.

Strips glued into position on one side. The short strip on the end will provide the fixing for the slot on fascia and needs to be absolutely square and flush with the end of both hardboard strips.



A number of glued brackets weighted until thoroughly dry.



and finally (for now) a completed bracket ready for the next stage.



More to come....

:cheers

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You have built a beautiful layout......:thumbs
Everything just looks so natural,your scenic work is exemplary.
Look forward to more updates...

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Have just been looking at these pictures again and it impresses me even more.

Can you tell me what the smooth surface is in the factory yard and how you applied it - it looks very good with it being up to track level.   (I have to do something similar for my quayside warehouse yard).

Ken.

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Hi Ken

I described the method in post 324, but it is basically built up with a layer of 2mm card glued to the baseboard with pva. Pva is then thinly applied to the card and air drying modelling clay pressed down on the top. You can then smooth the top with a wet knife and if needed press fine dust into the clay to give a bit of texture. Once dry you can paint any colour that suits your ground conditions. Watered down emulsion or acrylics are bet for this.

Hope that helps.

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Dock Shunter wrote: You have built a beautiful layout......:thumbs
Everything just looks so natural,your scenic work is exemplary.
Look forward to more updates...

Thank you kind sir.

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Thanks for the "how to" Nick, much appreciated.

Ken.

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Bit more progress with the fascia to report. Each bracket now has a 100mm deep strip of 6mm ply glued and screwed to the ends. The short end of each strip is set to be directly over the line of the baseboard ends.



The first pair in place.



The fascia board itself is another strip of 6mm ply, cut 1220mm long and 250mm wide. A short, approx 300mm long x 50mm strip of 6mm ply is glued 10mm below what will be the top edge of the fascia and when dry two further pieces of 6mm ply are glued to this strip at each end so that they correspond with the projections on the bracket.



A close up of one end.



Confused?? All will become clear in the next photo. The fascia simply drops over the brackets holding itself in place.



...and from the front.



The second fascia can be seen ready for fitting to the left of the layout, but before I can finish things off I need to make the extension to the fiddle yard board.

That's all for now folks. :cheers

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In this shot Woody, there seems to be only 1 supporting bracket with most of the facia board off to the right.  How is this supported ?  It would suggest there's a whole lot of turning stress hanging there or have I missed something ................:hmm

However it's fixed, it looks good. :thumbs



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That's not the fascia Peter, they are the brackets that the fascia clips onto. Try reading through it again. If you still don't understand it then I suspect others won't either and I'll do some editing to try and explain it a bit better :???:

Last edited on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 10:39 am by pnwood

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[In this shot Woody, there seems to be only 1 supporting bracket with most of the bracket off to the right.  How is this supported ?  It would suggest there's a whole lot of turning stress hanging there or have I missed something ................:hmm]



OK Woody, edited - but it still looks to have a lot of weight off to the right.  How long is it  - it could be the photo making it look bigger than it is. ?

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Very little Peter. 6mm ply weighs next to nothing and it is only 100mm deep by approx 350mm long. There are no twisting forces once the fascia is locked over it. I can categorically say it is very stable.

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Ah - now I understand.  I didn't realise it was only 350mm long.  In the photo, it looks to be around 3ft long ..........:shock:


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I've been slowly (very slowly actually) beavering away on the fiddle yard extension which has to be completed before I can finish the fascias and lighting. 

I had thoughts that I could have a small frontal display area on the extension to the fiddle yard, when I built the frame I decided it was just too small to be of any real use for a meaningful display. I've therefore decided to enclose the extension at the front and use the space for the fiddle yard operator (me) to keep a couple of spare loco cassettes and a cup of coffee

The extension is now complete and the front fascia is nearly there. I've still to start the end fascia boards but I have made a start on the lighting battens. I haven't taken any photos of this work so far but will post something up to show progress soon.

pnwood
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pnwood wrote: I haven't taken any photos of this work so far but will post something up to show progress soon.
I'm afraid that you are going to have to wait a while for the photos as the hard drive on my iMac has decided to comit hari kari :twisted:
Have to say though that is is 1 month shy of three years old and Apple have been superb.

Internet access will be through my iPhone for the next week until it is repaired.:cry:

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Well the long awaited fascia and lighting is finally done and some photos taken.  Apologies for the harsh lighting and shadows but these were taken tonight with some extra halogen workshop lighting supplementing the normal garage lights. The layout lighting is not switched on. Here's an overall shot before I go into detail.



A shot over the top showing the general arrangement of supports and lighting units. The spur uprights and brackets allow me to vary the height of the fascia which could be useful.



I've shown how the front fascias clip over the supports earlier in the thread but here's how I have supported each of the end fascias. The corner uses a hinge with the original pin removed and a new smaller diameter drop in pin used to keep things together and aligned.



The lighting bracket is extended and a magnetic catch used to stop things flapping around.



The front fascia boards are aligned and held together with a hinge and drop pin as well



The T4 linked strip lighting is mounted on timber bearers that slot into the support brackets. This can be seen a bit more clearly two photos above. the timber bearers also shield the operators eyes.



A view of the front of the extended fiddle yard board



and from the operating side. It may not be much extra space but it will be so much more easy to operate having somewhere to detach and move the loco cassettes without having to remove them from the layout.



Once I get this little lot painted I can then get on with some proper modelling.

:cheers

Last edited on Thu Nov 1st, 2012 06:39 pm by pnwood

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I can't believe that I haven't made comments about this beautiful layout previously. This is the layout that directed me to YMR whilst looking for pictures of coal staithes way back in Febuary. Your layout and Ben Adlers layout have to be my two favourites. The attention to detail on your layout is absolutely stunning. Good to see it made the Hornby Magazine. Well done and looking foward to seeing more.

Cheers, Gary.

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Thanks Gary

I'm pleased I read your signature as I had thought that I may reply that updates would be few and far between from now on as most of the work is done. Having read it I know realise that there are other things like improving the stock to report on and new photos to post, so as long as people are interested I'll keep posting something every now and then.

Much Murkle has had it's first exhibition invite. It will be attending the 2 day show at Andover, Hants in August 2014 :shock: it was invited for 2013 but I couldn't make the dates. I'm very excited to get the invite but I'm hoping for one or two more before then as it is a long way off.

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Whilst following the diversion from the closed M50 towards South Wales on Sunday, I was surprised when it took me through "Much Murkle".

As it was long past nightfall at the time, I couldn't check out the accuracy to the model but made a mental note to take another look when I returned north today.  This second visit unfortunately, identified the village as "Much Markle" and not "Murkle" .............:cry::cry:

Nice lighting rig Woody - do you have shots of the effect when everything is "on" ?

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Petermac wrote:
Whilst following the diversion from the closed M50 towards South Wales on Sunday, I was surprised when it took me through "Much Murkle".

As it was long past nightfall at the time, I couldn't check out the accuracy to the model but made a mental note to take another look when I returned north today.  This second visit unfortunately, identified the village as "Much Markle" and not "Murkle" .............:cry::cry:

Nice lighting rig Woody - do you have shots of the effect when everything is "on" ?


South Wales is a long way from Bergerac Peter, that must have been some diversion :shock:

Actually the name of the village you went through would be Much Marcle. Much Marcle is the home of Westons Cider and the birth place of the infamous serial killer Fred West. The railway didn't serve Much Marcle and I just wanted to base my layout in the area so chose to adapt the name to Much Murkle.

I haven't taken any shots with the lighting on yet. I'm not 100% happy with the lighting just yet. It is placed at the rear to avoid shadows on the back scene but that unfortunately puts some of the detail at the front in shadow. I've just ordered some more strip lights for the front and when these arrive and I get them installed I'll take some photos with them on.

Last edited on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 05:29 pm by pnwood

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What's a "k" or a "c" amongst friends Woody ..particularly at nearly midnight on a cold Sunday evening, cursing because they'd closed the motorway........:roll::roll::roll:  I'm over here until Friday when I head back to the land of the RLW.

I'll look forward to seeing the lighting once you're happy with it.  It really can create a headache trying to get it just right without  draining the National Grid ..............:hmm


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Much Murkle has received it's second exhibition invite in just over a week and will be appearing at an exhibition in Cradley Heath, West Midlands on October 19th 2013. :doublethumb

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Congratulations Nick...................I have to say I am not the least bit surprised. Despite your earnest protestations to the contrary, Much Murkle has an aura (?) of quiet competence which I would imagine is much valued by Show Managers.......I suspect the invitations will come flooding in after your first Exhibition............do you have some sort of strategy to deal with this?

Seriously there must be a limit to the number of shows one would wish to attend in a year.

Whatever.....I am delighted that your hard work is being recognised

Kind Regards

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Thanks John, nice to hear from you.

Yes I do have a strategy for dealing with a flood of show invites (if it happens), I'll just have to say no to many of them.

I am thinking that I really do not want to do more than three or four a year and then avoiding late spring through to early autumn when my other interests would conflict.

I would prefer reasonably local shows where I can travel there and back easily after a long day on your feet. My booking for Andover in 2014 meets this criteria but Cradley Heath doesn't quite. It is a good 2 hour drive each way but I'm doing this one as a favour to Frank (Dukedog) a former member here as he has taken on the role of Exhibition Manager for the Cradley Heath Club to organise their first ever exhibition.

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It's been a while but I've made some changes to the lighting. I found that just having the fluorescents at the back caused some problems with shadows and loss of detail at the front. So I've added another row of the same lightin gat the front.

I've always considered that if you want to show your layout off at its best it has to be presented well and an important part of that is good lighting. Hopefully I have now achieved this.

In an earlier post Peter wanted to see the layout with the lighting on and I can now oblige. Looking from the end....



Compare the next shot below taken from the front .....very bright and some shadows cast by the other lights in the garage



with this one with the garage lights turned off.



Note that the angled shadows by the bridge and the chimney in the distance that you could see on the backscene in the previous picture have all but disappeared. Also note how well the surrounding area is lit (remember all other lights in the garage are off and it is very dark outside).

I'm very pleased with the result. I now just need to get the fascia painted and I can move on to other things.

:cheers

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Hi Nick

Thats an excellent illustration of the importance of establishing a good lighting plan. I find myself constantly torn between the requirements for day to day operation/modelling and photography................I never have to worry about the third dimension.......the public.

Much Murkle looks brillliant under the lights:thumbs

ps Your garage is far too tidy:twisted::twisted::twisted:

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Excellent stuff Nick, very realistic with the lights!

 

Phil

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Thank you both your comments are appreciated


John Dew wrote:
Hi Nick

Thats an excellent illustration of the importance of establishing a good lighting plan. I find myself constantly torn between the requirements for day to day operation/modelling and photography................I never have to worry about the third dimension.......the public.

Much Murkle looks brillliant under the lights:thumbs

ps Your garage is far too tidy:twisted::twisted::twisted:


The comment about the garage made me laugh John. The area behind the layout is my workbench and I can never find what I want on there and the area behind the camera is full of junk (garden furniture and other things that Janet thinks are important :roll: ) which all goes to prove the camera can lie :lol:

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Just popped on today Nick and I must say, the lighting is fantastic. :thumbs   That end-on shot of the layout is a real stunner.  It creates an impression of that one sunny day you had in UK last August ..............:lol::lol:

As John said, those of us with fixed layouts tend to ignore things like lighting but it does make a huge difference.

I'm sure you've said earlier but, to save my fingers, are those just ordinary slim-line strip lights or something special ?

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Just gone thro' this thread, and I must say what an excellent layout, just needs addition of s&t equipment, and maybe drain covers in the appropriate places, to prevent the track bed looking a little bare, and it would be brilliant - keep up the good work.

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Thanks for the comments

Peter, the lights are linked 30w T4 Flourescent fittings intended to be used under kitchen cupboards and the like.

Bike2steam (sorry don't know your name) One of the things I wish i had planned for from the outset was point rodding and I have bought some recently from MSE to have a go at retro fitting. It is quite a way down my priority list though at the moment. Interesting point too about drain covers. I'll have a think about that as it wouldn't be too difficult to do. Thanks.

The fascia boards are now off and I've brought them indoors out of the cold garage to get them painted.
 

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Hi Nick...just browsed through your build and well impressed,as a newbie gwr modeller ive a lot to learn:lol:...Much Murkle...perfection at its best:pathead

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im sure this has been said some where but WOW I like, what are the dimentions (LxWxh) for your layout, I may try to knock this togethher if I could do so...

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My apologies to Dave for not replying earlier and expressing my thanks. There's just about everything you need to know here Dave and if its not then ask and someone will help. Best wishes for success and its good to know there are new GWR modellers out there.

Jim. Many thanks for your comments. The layout is 3.7m long x 0.6m wide. 12ft x 2ft in old money.

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Very impressed with the lighting rig Nick......:thumbs
The last photo shows the lighting on the layout to perfection.
Any chance of you maybe coming a little further North sometime pleeeese.............:mrgreen:
(will try to make the West Midlands show)
Would love to see your layout in the flesh someday

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Dock Shunter wrote: Very impressed with the lighting rig Nick......:thumbs
The last photo shows the lighting on the layout to perfection.
Any chance of you maybe coming a little further North sometime pleeeese.............:mrgreen:
(will try to make the West Midlands show)
Would love to see your layout in the flesh someday


Thanks, if you do get to see MM, make yourself known. I might let you have a play ;-)

:hmmI would love to get MM to more exhibitions, the problem is getting the first invite so that it can be seen by other Exhibition Scouts. Unless someone else comes forward and takes a punt, Cradley Heath in October will be Much Murkle's first outing.

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A fantastic layout,I really like it and will using a few ideas from it for my own layout.Is the name taken from "Much Marcle"? as I was born and grew up nearby in Ledbury.

Ian ("Tomsk")

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Hi Ian and thanks, it's always appreciated when someone says they like my little layout.

Yes, Much Murkle's name was taken from Much Marcle with Rancoutt's Cider replacing Weston's and giving them both a connection to the GWR which of course they didn't have in real life. Apart from trying to give a flavour of the scenery in the area in the limited space I have there is not much else to define it as being based on Much Marcle other than the name.

The area was chosen because I didn't want to do just another South West Devon / Cornwall GWR terminus and I feel the Forest of Dean / Hereford area is generally neglected by modellers. Personally I don't have any connection with the area so if I need some insight I now know who to approach ;-)


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I know the area but I'm still learning about railways (both local and national).I have only taken up researching model railways (& prototype?) for the last 12 months,I didn't know about GWR stations having the 3 types of paintwork colours etc until then etc.
I have looked up the old "Daffodil line" that ran from my old home to new home (Ledbury to Gloucester),the old railwayline ran through the town and it is interesting to see that there was a halt halfway though the town.
I am looking to make a set up with wagons/trains that are around my region,I have started to collect P.O. wagons for Gloucester/Cheltenam/worcester/Hereford and I have seen a Cambrian kit for a P.O. for a company based at Dymock (part of the Daffodil line) on E-bay but missed that auction and haven't seen it since :(.
I still have close ties to my home town as I still work in Ledbury (44 mile round trip form Gloucester and back every day).I can't help much on local railway info but I'll do my best to help :)

Ian ("Tomsk")

Last edited on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 07:09 pm by Tomsk

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Hi Nick

As my daughters pals would say Oh My God, what a beautiful layout (well maybe not the last bit).

Another weekends modelling falls by the wayside reading another excellent layouts tail.

Re-cassettes, you can use foam scourers placed between ally sides as temporary buffer stops.
I remember (blows cob webs from between ears) Chris Pendlenton did an article in MRJ - approx 20 years ago, for his P4 layout North Shields, he used cassettes, and had the power feed for one side the cassette via a foam buffer stop, so if a loco/train over ran, the stop would be pushed out of the way and kill power to the cassette instantly. He was also building loco's with very large flywheels, that rendered his emergency buffer stop redundant - suppose this would apply to dcc users with stay alive and momentum.

Once again congrats on an excellent layout.

Paul

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Thanks Paul.

I did look at just wedging a piece of foam in the ends of the cassettes but it didn't work for me.

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With Much Murkle out in the garage it's been too cold over this winter to do much work on it or play out there, so I've taken the opportunity to add to the stock.

First up a few humble wagons all weathered with my usual DG couplings and Gibson wheels.

GWR O4 open sheeted 5 plank wagon. Coopercraft Kit. Empty with the tarpaulin folded up inside.



 

GWR Loco Coal wagon. Coopercraft kit. Second photo shows load added





GWR Horse Box, Parkside Dundas kit





A couple of GWR Mink Box Vans. Coopercraft kits.



and finally a GWR rtr Bachmann Fruit van and a Coopercraft GWR Cattle Wagon



Coaching stock next........

:cheers



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Nice modelling Nick. :thumbs  Did you work to photos of prototype vehicles for the weathering?

Terry

Last edited on Fri Apr 26th, 2013 02:31 pm by col.stephens

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Lovely work Nick and superb weathering.

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col.stephens wrote: Nice modelling Nick. :thumbs  Did you work to photos of prototype vehicles for the weathering?

Terry

Thanks Terry (and Trevor). For wagons, no I don't work to photos. I use the methods the Iain Rice describes in the Right track dvd series Nos 13 & 14 - wagons part 1 & 2. I try to think about where dirt would accumulate and where rust and oily deposits would stand out.

I've refined my technique gradually. The first attempts a while back probably made them look a bit too rusty and decrepit and I'll be going over some of these again to tone it down, but I think I've got it about right now. It's definitely a case of less is more.




Last edited on Fri Apr 26th, 2013 06:30 pm by pnwood

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pnwood wrote:
I've refined my technique gradually. The first attempts a while back probably made them look a bit too rusty and decrepit and I'll be going over some of these again to tone it down, but I think I've got it about right now. It's definitely a case of less is more.

Hi Nick

Greetings from Canada!

Nice modelling and I do agree with you about less is more.....I am all too often guilty of overdoing it........your examples look just right to me.

Dare I ask whether the Loco coal wagon is GWR grey or Engineering Dept black? I have been debating this off and on with our mutual friend John Flann........my existing stock is grey but I have to build some more for the coal ramp.....I was planning to compromise on Black Grey:lol:

Regards

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Lovely weathering Nick, and the wheels really look the biz.
Talking of weather, it seems to be improving - get y'self out into the garage!

ATB
Shaun.

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Hi John, nice to hear from you again.

I had seen your debate with John and it intrigued me as I'd always been under the impression that loco coal wagons were the standard grey. However John put up a convincing argument I thought.

I also noticed on a recent visit to Didcot GWS that they have a loco coal wagon painted black. It's interesting that you've had to ask what colour I've painted it as I've tried to cover both bases. By going for a very dark grey I can claim it is either worn and faded black or a very dirty coal dusted grey.

I suppose I won't know the real answer until I take MM to its first exhibition when some pedant is bound to tell me what colour it should be ;-)

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gastwo wrote:
Lovely weathering Nick, and the wheels really look the biz.
Talking of weather, it seems to be improving - get y'self out into the garage!

ATB
Shaun.


Thanks Shaun:lol:

I'm hoping to soon but I need a clearing out session first

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Work on coaching stock has been confined to upgrading an old Airfix Autocoach with a Dart Castings detail kit and adding flush glazing and passengers.

Work on the underframe meant that only the floor and bogies survived.



All the moulded handrails, steps and lamp irons are removed from the body and replaced with etched components. windows were glazed with laser cut glazing from Shawplan.





The interior was painted and a Driver and seated passengers fitted



The end result after painting the underframe black, roof grey and touching up the brown and cream paintwiork. The whole coach was then given a light weathering.



Next up is a suitable loco to go with this Autocoach.

:cheers

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Great work Nick:thumbs I have seen some of this before......but I believe its the first time I have seen the finished article......its certainly an excellent endorsement for the kit......I confess to being somewhat tempted.......its puts my home made attempts to shame.

So what is happening to the other autocoach coyly lurking stage right?



Next up is a suitable loco to go with this Autocoach.


Well I guess you could pre -order the Bachmann 64xx.........but I rather suspect you have a more elegant solution than I to getting a Airfix/Dapol/Hornby 14xx to work reliably?

:cheers

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Thanks John

There are no plans for the other Autocoach at the moment as I found detailing this one took up quite a bit of time and I have/had other projects to progress.
It was only in the photo to give an indication of the difference between the two. When I have run out of things to get on with I may order another detailing kit and convert it into a different diagram.

You'll have to wait and see what the loco is going to be ;-) I'll post something up soon.

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Now for the motive power to drag and push the Autocoach over Much murkle's metals.

A few months back I bought a second 14xx as a donor for some butchery. The primary reason was to obtain some wheels that I could swap with the ones fitted with traction tyres (I hate the things) and use the body to detail thinking that if I make a complete hash of it I will still have my original one.

Here are the two locos. The BR liveried one is the one that got the chop!



I purchased a detailing kit from Mainly trains which includes a new (and correct) smokebox door, chimney, vacuum pipes, auto gear, battery boxes and cab detail parts. Unfortunately the latter can't be used unless you replace the chassis which I'm not intending to do. Maybe at some point in the future.

Whilst doing all this I'm going to backdate the loco to a 48xx which menas removing the top feed to the boiler and associated pipework....gulp!

Body stripped down to its component parts before taking a knife, Dremel and files to it.



First bit to tackle is the smokebox door. This needs to be removed completely by careful use with a large file.



You then end up with something like this (hopefully). It stills needs a bit of filing too get it completely flat ready for the new door.



The top feed and pipes in the centre need to be removed as these were not fitted until the 1940's well beyond the period Much Murkle is set in. Also the base of the chimney has to go.



The pipework was carefully pared away with a small chisel blade and the rest with careful use of the dremel to get rid of the bulk of the plastic and then finished off with an old emery board nail file and some fine wet and dry. I took the opportunity to get rid of the moulding line on the top of the boiler at the same time.



I've given the smokebox and boiler a coat of Halfords grey undercoat which showed up a couple of little bits that needed furher attention with a sharp blade. With these done the chimney and smokebox door have been glued in place with 5 minute expoxy resin.



The smokebox door handles come in three parts and are sooooo.. tiny to put together

Now ready for another coat of Halfords finest before I tell you any more!

:cheers


Last edited on Tue Apr 30th, 2013 05:20 pm by pnwood

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Very neat work Woody, watching with interest.

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I too will be following this, I totally agree about traction tyres, I don't allow them on my layout either. Unfortunately this excludes locos like the 14xx and the 4-4-0 County.Is the chassis your using the latest Horny one, I used to have an Airfix one, but it stripped the gears

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Well I almost got the class right! Very interesting thread.......you have done a super removal job....not sure I would have the courage...............looking forward to seeing the finished model.......will you include a how to on the wheel exchange? It something I keep intending to do and I would appreciate any tips

Regards

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Marty wrote:
Very neat work Woody, watching with interest.
Marty


G'day Marty and thanks.

vulcanbomber wrote:
I too will be following this, I totally agree about traction tyres, I don't allow them on my layout either. Unfortunately this excludes locos like the 14xx and the 4-4-0 County.Is the chassis your using the latest Horny one, I used to have an Airfix one, but it stripped the gears


The chassis is the Dapol version, remodelled after they took over from Airfix. I believe it is the same as the Hornby version. The Airfix chassis had many problems particularly with the gears and pickups.

John Dew wrote:
Well I almost got the class right! Very interesting thread.......you have done a super removal job....not sure I would have the courage...............looking forward to seeing the finished model.......will you include a how to on the wheel exchange? It something I keep intending to do and I would appreciate any tips

Regards


Yes almost John. I wasn't sure I would have had the courage if I hadn't managed to get hold of a spare loco that I didn't mind messing up. Like with most things, the main difficulty is plucking up the courage to have a go. In the end it usually turns out to not be that difficult.  I will cover the wheel change in due course and there are a few issues I had to overcome with the pickups which should help you when you come to do yours.

:cheers

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Great build Nick. Interestingly, two friends are currently building the same class, Patrick building a 3mm version from a kit, and Colin is scratch-building the same but in N gauge.Be good to compare the three versions!
I'll try and get finished photos.

Shaun.

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Thanks Shaun, yes it will be interesting to compare the three.

Next to recieve attention is the cab and bunker, this is how the original coal bunker looks.



As you can see the coal level is very high and if I add some real coal on top it will look a bit stupid. The loco body that I'm working on did have this done so I cut it all away from the cab back. I've had to reconstruct a base for the coal and extend the the cab rear downwards to do this with a bit of plastic card.



There is a bit of glue damage from the previous owners attempt at filling the coal bunker just under the window bars. I'm not sure if this is going to be noticeable or not yet. I'll give it a coat of primer and see what it looks like before getting too worried about it.

Whilst working on the cab I cut off the whistle guard which is a part of the roof moulding and was not installed until the 1940's and I thought it would be more interesting to see the roof vent slightly open. This involved drilling and cutting around the inside of the vent frame moulding and then refitting a small piece of thin plastic card to represent the sliding vent.



The new bunker temporarily in place to test fit. You can now see how much deeper the space is to provide some real coal.



Finally for now I've carved off the moulded handrails and lampirons from the body. Here's a shot of the rear end (oh! err! missus)



:cheers

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A quick update. The replacement handrails bent from brass wire and lamp irons cut and bent from the detailing etch. The square tab on the lamp irons is to hold it whilst gluing to the loco. It is then cut off. The bunker hooks are bent up from a thin strip of brass cut from a spare bit of the etch with Xuron shears and then formed around a cocktail stick





:cheers

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They are fiddly enough in OO gauge by the looks, all power to your cocktail stick.... note to self... do not try this in N gauge.

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To finish of the body details, the handrails, lamp irons and hooks are glued in place using superglue. A steady hand and a good pair of tweezers are essential :roll: Vacuum pipes and the auto gear have been added too. Front and rear shots.





Apart from re-assembling the boiler, cab and footplate I'm done with the body detailing for now, so i'll tackle the chassis next.

:cheers 




Last edited on Tue May 7th, 2013 02:44 pm by pnwood

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Thats brilliant Nick.......I particularly admire the consistency you have achieved with the scratch built lamp irons and fire iron hooksi...............I tried and failed.

Glad you made these posts they are both informative and inspirational:thumbs


:cheers  Regards from a hot and sunny Vancouver

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Thanks John, that's appreciated.

The lamp irons are from an etch I bought separately. It's only the hooks and handrails that I made myself.

Last edited on Sat May 4th, 2013 10:41 am by pnwood

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Nick, this model is coming along nicely.  A very informative thread.  Thank you.

Terry

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Thanks Terry.

I've been away on a break in Norfolk hence the delay in the next installment.

The two chassis were stripped down to remove the wheelsets. Not having taken one of these apart before I found that they are quite a pig to do and I managed to detach the feed on both chassis so had to get the soldering iron out unexpectedly. The small wheels are also sprung which makes reinstalling them interesting. Good eyesight and knees are needed to find the thing which will fly off in a random direction when you least expect it :roll:

Anyway the job in hand was to remove the two wheels with the traction tyres from the axle with the gear cog and replace them with the two plain wheels from the other chassis. The coupling rod pins are just a push fit and once removed I simply pulled the wheels off. The axle ends have splines so quartering the wheels was relatively easy to do.



This is one of the horrible things that have necessitated this action, traction tyres URGH!!. As you can see not only do they restrict pick-up, they are slightly proud of the wheel surface and cause the loco to rock. They are also starting to disintegrate.



After removal and replacement with the plain wheels from the other chassis they are now ready to drop back into the chassis.



Next job was to resolder the feed before reassembling. The little clear flaps you can see are a plastic covering to insulate the pickups from the chassis which is live. Because they are floppy I had a number of attempts to get them to go between the wheels and chassis block as they are designed to do. In the end I cut thin slivers of double sided adhesive tape and stick them to the pickups. You can also see the spring which bears on the axle of the rear wheels.



After reassembly I found that the pickups were still shorting on the chassis as the insulating strips were just not doing their job. It really is a poor design....

:hmm I'll explain in the next installment how after a bit of thought this was eventually overcome.

:cheers 


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Hi Nick
I have just been catching up with your modelling on here and like what you have been doing with your 14xx, I will enjoy following your work as I have a few old kit builds that could do with a bit of detailing too, especially like the lamp irons and hooks on the rear of the bunker.
Great work 
Jim

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Thanks Jim, I didn't realise that you had a presence here as well.

To carry on with the chassis rebuild, as you can see from the photo below that the double sided tape just did not have enough grab and the insulating strips just wanted to bend away from the pickups. It was impossible to guide both the pickups and the insulating strips between the chassis block and the wheels on re-assembly.



After a little thought the solution was fairly simple. Just line the chassis with insulation tape instead



Chassis re-assembled



Haulage capacity may be down having removed the traction tyres but it has undergone a thorough test and now runs sweetly compared to the original. It only has to pull an Autocoach or a few wagons anyway.

Time to finish the body now and get this loco back into service.

:cheers

Last edited on Sun May 19th, 2013 06:34 am by pnwood

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I had forgotten just how awful those tyres were and the muck they used to leave behind.

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Looks good Nick.  Is it possible to include a bit of extra weight to improve the pulling power?  Possibly some lead shot in the side tanks, smokebox or boiler?

Terry

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Robert wrote: I had forgotten just how awful those tyres were and the muck they used to leave behind.
Quite, Bob. They also made the thing jump about like a rabbit on heat :lol:

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col.stephens wrote: Looks good Nick.  Is it possible to include a bit of extra weight to improve the pulling power?  Possibly some lead shot in the side tanks, smokebox or boiler?

Terry

Hi Terry. I have managed to get a small amount of lead in the top of the smokebox which should help a bit.

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The body has been given a coat of Halfords grey primer. This stage always shows up anything that needs more attention or fettling and I'm pleased to find that all seems ok. The body has temporarily been reunited with the chassis and given another test run which it passed with flying colours (well flying grey at least :roll: ).

The roof is not fixed in case you were wondering about the big gap as the cab glazing and crew can't be put in place until the paintwork is done. The safety valve cover and whistles will also be fixed after painting.







The body was then removed again for painting. It was first given three coats of green all over. Once thoroughly dry, I left it for a day between each of the first two coats and three days after the third the footplate, smokebox, chimney etc were given a coat of matt black, using Games Workshops excellent Chaos Black acrylic. The glazing has also been added. This was cut from clear sheet to fit flush and is held in place with Humbrol Clear fix.







Whistle and safety valve cover back in place.



The buffer beams still need picking out in red.

:cheers

Last edited on Mon May 20th, 2013 05:02 am by pnwood

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Wow, very, very nice Nick. It would look good on anyone's layout.

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Hi Nick...top marks for a top job! :pathead

 

Dave

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Cracking Job ;-)

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A splendid piece of refurbishment work Nick.

May I ask where you got the GWR logo from? I've been try to find some for a while now without success. 

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Lovely work Nick and the end result is worthy of pride of place on Much Murkle.

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Great work Nick and a neat solution to the traction tyres -
I have two working models so having read this I will hunting around for some donors.

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I totally agree.......like Dave I have a couple that need converting.......your thread has given me the confidence to do something about it.......many thanks

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Thanks guys. Just to answer Barneybuffer's question. The shirtbutton logos were on a sheet of HMRS GWR goods wagon pressfix transfers. They are intended for Brown goods wagons and may not be the correct size, but they look ok and as I already had them...

John and Dave. Take the plunge and have a go. This has been one project that I had put off for ages, completing the Autocoach was the spur I needed and it has been one of the most enjoyable and satisfying projects I've done for quite a while. I look forward to seeing your efforts, I'm sure they will be just as good if not better.

The crew have now got my attention. There is not much space to glue them in on the chassis as you can see. Basically it is the space between the hole and the motor.



The hole was my saviour as I could use that to secure a piece of plastic card and then glue the figures to that.



Let me introduce Harry Nash, Driver and Bill Parton, Fireman. Crew of 4863.



Harry and Bill taking their place on the footplate. Note the screw holding the plastic base in place.



I couldn't find a source for number plates of my chosen engine 4863 which worked out of Gloucester and Hereford sheds in the 1930's. 247 Developments which do most numbers don't do this one unfortunately but luckily I found that Martin Finney produces etched plates with etched numbers that you make up yourself. I ordered a set and it should be an interesting exercise getting the numbers lined up on the plate and stuck down as they are quite tiny.  But I suppose it will be another rung up the learning ladder.:thumbs

:cheers


 

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I suspect I am too late.........but these guys are very good:


http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/NP_4000_4999.php

I had too many Panniers with the same number. Their etched plates are pre assembled.....no lining up the numbers:shock::shock: and they look very good.......almost too good because they show up the rest of the locos:lol:


I like your loco crew......can you recall the paint combination you used foe their overalls......mine always seem to finish up a bit too pale.......although I am basing this on recollections from long ago!



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Just to answer Barneybuffer's question. The shirtbutton logos were on a sheet of HMRS GWR goods wagon pressfix transfers. They are intended for Brown goods wagons and may not be the correct size, but they look ok and as I already had them
Thanks Nick, I'll have a look and see what I can find.

Barney

 

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John Dew wrote:
I suspect I am too late.........but these guys are very good:


http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/NP_4000_4999.php

I had too many Panniers with the same number. Their etched plates are pre assembled.....no lining up the numbers:shock::shock: and they look very good.......almost too good because they show up the rest of the locos:lol:


I like your loco crew......can you recall the paint combination you used foe their overalls......mine always seem to finish up a bit too pale.......although I am basing this on recollections from long ago!





That's another useful source for numbers that I wasn't away of John, many thanks. However they also do not do the number I wanted. You can see how I got on with the Martin Finney plates soon.

Last edited on Wed May 22nd, 2013 06:31 pm by pnwood

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Time to get 4863's number plates sorted out.

As I previously said I tried to source 4863 from ready made plates but couldn't find this number available anywhere. After a bit of research and I found that Martin Finney produces this etch for the GWR cast plates. The etch is £2.50 + £1.50 postage. Although I have bought some ready made numberplates for my other locos from 247 developments it's quite possible that I will need more obscure numbers in the future so i bought 4 etches from Martin.



Here's the numbers for 4863 cut out and I've put my small No3 Swann Morton to give a sense of scale. The numbers are gory small



I used the method described on a blog I follow (Geoff Forster's Chronicles of Penhydd). Flood the plate with clear matt varnish and float the numbers on. When the varnish starts to grip adjust the numbers with the end of a cocktail stick and leave at least 48hrs for every thing to dry thoroughly.



After the varnish has set hard (mine has been left for 4 days) the next stage is to paint them. A couple of coats of black in my case. Earlier GWR periods may need a red background.



These were then left fo at least 24 hours for the paint to harden before lightly sandpapering the numberers and surrounds to remove the paint. You should then end up with something like this.



I've used double sided tape to stick them to the loco sides. The camera is great for showing up bits that need attention. The small bits of tape showing around the edges have now been trimmed off !!  I can also see some black and green paint in places it shouldn't be. :roll:




4863 now awaits lamps, fire irons and some real coal in the bunker.

:cheers

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Thanks for that Nick

I had seen these on his site before and wondered what they were like as I will need some in the future, at least now I know how to fix them without the risk of glue blobs.
Jim

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aberdare wrote: Thanks for that Nick

I had seen these on his site before and wondered what they were like as I will need some in the future, at least now I know how to fix them without the risk of glue blobs.
Jim

Hi Jim

My one criticism of them is that they are wasteful. So many numbers and so few plates. If you have no need of the plate for three digit numbers it's even worse. It's a pity Martin doesn't just do a fret for the plates. :???:


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I'm mightily impressed with that restoration job, Nick.
I can take things to bits with great skill.
The next bit is beyond me.

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ddolfelin wrote: I'm mightily impressed with that restoration job, Nick.
I can take things to bits with great skill.
The next bit is beyond me.

I don't believe that for one minute Pete.

I used to think the same until I gave it ago. Looking at what you do with you dioramas you should have no problems.

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That's an incredible transformation Woody. :thumbs

Presumably you spray painted the loco. :roll:  What did you use to do the masking ?  Whenever I've tried it, and that's not often, I either get bleed under the masking tape or I don't !!  On the few occasions I haven't noticed any bleed, it's because the tape has neatly removed the paint it was supposed to be masking - bleed included........:cry::cry::twisted:

I also applaud (and envy) your steady hands and excellent eyesight in tackling the "internal electrickery".  I know how tough that is - even with John Dew holding my hand throughout the trauma of it all .........................:shock::shock:

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No masking Peter. Sprayed the whole thing green using an aerosol (Ford Laurel Green which is as close to GWR green as I could find) then brush painted the black bits.

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"I don't believe that for one minute Pete."

Thanks, but you really should!
Sitting on a nearby shelf I have a dismantled 57XX I bought from Richard's estate.
The body is like new.
The undercarriage is working.
Will the two go together?
No.

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Just to finish off the 48xx conversion, 4863 now has lamps, fire irons, couplings and real coal in the bunker.







I'm not happy with the couplings as they project too far in front of the buffers and give almost as big a gap between the loco and autocoach as the old tension lock couplings they have replaced.  They'll have to do for now though as I'm struggling to find a better way of fixing them.

4863 has had a good run around my club's test track and passed with flying colours.

Now the layout needs my attention.

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I recently had a read right from the beginning of this thread, Woody, itwas a lovely ramble!

Keep doin' it,

Doug

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A super loco now she's finished Woody.  I just sat here shaking my head wondering how you do it. :pathead:pathead:pathead

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Couldnt agree more......you have done an excellent job.......I am afraid, as a result, I keep looking at my 14xx with somewhat jaundiced eyes:mrgreen:

:cheers

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Doug - Thank you that's a very kind comment and is much appreciated.

Peter - You never know what you can do until you try. This is my first attempt at detailing a loco and took me ages to pluck up the courage. Wish I tried it earlier. ;-)

John - Go on, you know you want to have a go :lol:

I'm booked in to a hands-on Weathering Masterclass at Pendon in September (on my birthday :doublethumb) with Tim Shackleton who does the weathering DVD's in the Right track series. This loco is one that I will be taking with me to get the treatment.

I went to have a running session at the weekend and after sitting in the garage neglected over the winter the gremlins had struck with the electrics. Instead of enjoying myself I ended up spending a couple of hours tracing an elusive fault which turned out to be a broken connection at the back of a DIN plug to the handheld controller. Anyway it got me thinking about resolving a scenic issue I've been pondering over for some time now but more of that later when I've taken some photos.

:cheers

Last edited on Wed May 29th, 2013 07:24 am by pnwood

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Hi  Nick,

Glad to hear you mention Pendon, although I did come home from there and look at my attempts at model buildings in a different light.

I don't know if you know but Pendon use a very sophisticated method of coupling - a small piece of bent wire:lol:. Has the advantage that it never comes loose so if you don't want to run round your autotrailer you could opt for that solution. If you do want to uncouple, you could look at the various continental coupling systems as they do some sophisticated close coupling units.

Look down this page for the Close Coupling Frets:- http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp?searchstring=brand~~637~~brand%20%ACcouplings%AC&style=&andor=&method=kws&strType=&currentpage=1#12

I model (Continental) and GWR so have experience of these systems and they do work well.

Simon

pnwood
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Joined: Tue Sep 15th, 2009
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Thanks for the link Simon but I am firmly commited to DG auto couplers. All my stock is fitted with them and they work very well. The only problem I have is with this loco in finding a suitable fixing point.

pnwood
DON'T SHOUT my hearing is fine


Joined: Tue Sep 15th, 2009
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A small scenic change has taken place at Much Murkle

The West of England Sack store and timber platform has been demolished and replaced by a new loading dock and small yard crane. The reason foir this is twofold. The sack store was only ever intended to be temporary and it's removal opens up the view of the station building and water tower for photographic purposes.

This is how the area looked before on one of the photos taken f