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00 Gauge - Much Murkle - Members Personal Layouts. - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 07:10 am
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Chubber
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Not often I actually 'study' a picture of a model coal pile, but that got several coats of 'lookin'at'.*
Very realistic mini-scene.


Doug


* An old Chief Petty Officer Shipwright I knew would reply when reluctant to respond to any demand to improve the appearance of something or other would reply 'Aye, Sir, I'll give it several coats of 'Lookin' at' and that would usually be the last said about it!





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 Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 07:39 am
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Petermac
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Those coal bins look the bees knees Nick :thumbs  There could be an argument that, having forked out for the brick retaining wall, there wasn't enough cash left over for a brick shed !!  I think a timber shed would look great - with "vertical" planking rather than horzontal - if you get what I mean :roll::roll:  It could even be sawn old railway timbers.



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 Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 09:36 am
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CraigSR
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Nick,

I haven't been on for a while, so have just just seen your updated photos. It looks superb.

Craig



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 Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 02:04 pm
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georgejacksongenius
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Those coal staithes are the business...I'd definately go for brick with the coal office,but very weathered and coal-dusty!! I've seen hundreds of coal staithes on hundreds of layouts,but those really stand out.Cracking job!
  Don't forget to weather the retaining wall too.Then a few little detailing bits and bobs...it'll look just like the real deal.

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs



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 Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 05:28 pm
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Chubber
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Nick,

I've pm'd you a photo of Witney coal office/weighbridge if that helps, i.e. if I've done it right!

Doug



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 Posted: Sun Apr 25th, 2010 05:20 pm
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pnwood
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Hi everyone and thanks for the kind comments

DD - Thanks for the photo and I'm going to steal 'several coats of lookin at' and use it myself ;-)

Petermac - You are right about the vertical planking but I would like some brick in there as well, so maybe a low brick base and brick chimney. Just need to do some googling to find a suitable prototype to base it on.

John B - I agree that the retaining wall and whatever structure goes there needs to be weathered. along with blackened vegetation around the same area. Detailing is a task that I'm looking forward to but there are many more basic things to get finished first.

Craig - Hi and glad you are liking Much Murkle.

:cheers 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 25th, 2010 05:40 pm
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pnwood
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Another update.

This is the station and yard entrance. The weighbridge and yard office was my first scratchbuilt building for Much Murkle and it shows. It may eventually have to be replaced by as it is definitely not to the same standard as the goods shed, although it is still a nice little building. The yard gates are temporary until I make something a little more suitable. Fencing needs 'stringing', protection rails alongside the weighbridge, vegetation, backboards are just some of the jobs still to do. But.... it is starting to look like a model railway of sorts.



A couple of views looking down the goods yard entrance. Wood Bros, Agricultural merchants on the right.





A view looking the other way. Backboards and a backscene will eventually make a difference to improving the look of the layout




:cheers





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 Posted: Sun Apr 25th, 2010 06:41 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Hi Nick.    There are some big gaps in what I know about UK railways.  Can you tell us (me) about the coal staiths.  The lumps look a bit big for locos and they are low down, so it probably wouldn't be shovelled in anyway.  So are they dumped there for say, a lorry to come and deliver them?

It's all looking good.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 04:47 am
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pnwood
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MaxSouthOz wrote:
Hi Nick.    There are some big gaps in what I know about UK railways.  Can you tell us (me) about the coal staiths.  The lumps look a bit big for locos and they are low down, so it probably wouldn't be shovelled in anyway.  So are they dumped there for say, a lorry to come and deliver them?

It's all looking good.  :thumbs


Hi Max, there's some big gaps in my knowledge of UK railways too but I'll give it a shot at explaining the use of coal bins / staithes in the days before mechanisation.

The type I've built are for domestic coal. Coal would be delivered to the station yard usually in 7 plank wooden wagons and shunted to the area of the yard used by the local coal merchant. Because they would have to pay for the wagon whilst it remained in the yard getting, the coal offloaded quickly was a priority.

Some had their own coal yards off site and would shovel coal from the wagon directly into sacks onto carts or latterly lorries standing alongside. Others who rented space and operated their business from the station yard would place bins or staithes such as the ones I've built alongside the siding and offload their coal directly into them. Their coal could then be bagged and sent out on the rounds when required. Everything was moved by hand, labour was cheap in those days.

As far as the size of the lumps go I don't think it would be unusual to have a wide variation in size in a load and occasionally some very large pieces of coal. The merchant would probably break up the bigger lumps before distributing to customers. My piles of coal probably have too many of the larger size but it doesn't look quite so bad in real life as it does in a photo.

Loco coal is another matter altogether. In small stations with some sort of servicing facility for the engines, coal would usually be held on some sort of platform or stage and would maybe have a small hoist with a bucket into which coal could be shovelled and then lifted into the engine's bunker if the crew were lucky. If not then it would have to be shovelled directly into the bunker.

Hope this helps and if I've got anything wrong then I stand to be corrected.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 05:23 am
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ddolfelin
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I think the coal looks very realistic.
Well, it would being real coal.

Very good work, Nick. Look forward to further updates.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 05:32 am
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Bob K
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A very nice layout, I like the feeling of space in those shots along the line. Also good attention to detail makes all the difference, such as the little retaining wall behind the buffers at the goods yard entrance. Keep the pictures coming, they are very nice to look at.

Bob(K)



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 06:23 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks for that, Nick.  It was very interesting.  Your staithes look just as I would have imagined them to be from that explanation.  Most appreciated.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 03:42 pm
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Chubber
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Wooden hut with vertical planks and brick chimney....certainly Sir, is this what you had in mind?



http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=5695&forum_id=136


and manual coal handling-from the Lambourne site

http://www.lambournvalleyrailway.co.uk/pages/Bodmans/bodmans.htm



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 06:02 pm
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pnwood
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Hi Doug

That hut is not quite what I had in mind, looks more like a platelayers hut than a coal office but thanks for posting it. I have in my mind what I want but I haven't found a photo of a suitable prototype yet.

I saw that website on the Lambourn Valley Railway it's an excellent resource and that page in particular has lots of photos which show how coal was handled. I hope that the sacks they hired out to local farmers for the harvest season were not the same ones that were used for the "nutty slack" the rest of the year :shock:

By the way Lambourn does not have an 'e' on the end. The locals are very touchy about it ;-)



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 Posted: Mon Apr 26th, 2010 06:55 pm
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Petermac
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pnwood wrote: ...........................................................................I hope that the sacks they hired out to local farmers for the harvest season were not the same ones that were used for the "nutty slack" the rest of the year :shock:

.......................................................

Funny they should mention hiring hessian sacks to farmers Nick.

When I was a tender youth in my teens, the Railway hired 16 stone hessian sacks to the local farmers.  They came to the nearest station in a box van, the farmers having been informed of the time of arrival.  The porter - in our case he was also the signalman - would throw these bundles of 20 sacks out, all very clean and tied with "baler twine", onto the platform whilst the train waited.  There might have been 100 bundles or more on the platform (and they were heavy) with all the farmers lined up like a soup kitchen waiting for their allocation.  We'd load our "order" onto a tractor and trailer and head off home ready for threshing day.  They were naturally called "Railway Sacks".  Once filled with their 16 stones of wheat (the only cereal which actually had to be sold off the farm to get the subsidy), they were loaded onto the tractor and trailer again and taken back to the station for transport to (in our case in East Yorkshire) either Rank Hovis McDougal or Spillers.  No 25kg weight limit in those days !!  Wheat was bagged in 16 stones (100 kgs) for sale and barley, oats and beans were threshed into "bags full".  As this usually stayed on the farm for animal feed, you just filled the bag so you didn't have to hire so many.  18 to 20 stones in each bag was quite normal on threshing days.  Then you had to carry it up the granary steps to the first floor on your back !!!!

I have absolutely no idea how they kept track of their whereabouts but, once they had arrived at the flour millers, they were "signed off" our account and became the responsibility of the miller.  They were usually hired (in bundles) by the week.

Ahh - the good old days. :hmm:hmm:hmm



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 Posted: Tue Apr 27th, 2010 02:50 am
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Chubber
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Peter et al,

Look here

http://www.wantage.com/museum/Local_History/Sacks%20for%20Hire.pdf

There was a navy-blue enamel sign on a barn near Nether Wallop that I wanted, but someone beat me to it!

Doug



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 Posted: Tue Apr 27th, 2010 03:26 am
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Chubber
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Also, from the freebie Hornby goods store...in 'tatty' condition, tinplate corners etc




The 'tar-paper' roof is done by printing onto a piece of watercolour paper, then very lightly sanding it with fine W&D paper to give the fluffy texture, then cutting joint lines open with a scalpel and peeling them back a bit.


Hope these signs help if anyone is interested, Apologies for the semi-hi-jack, too.

Doug



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 Posted: Tue Apr 27th, 2010 03:42 pm
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Petermac
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Absolutely no apologies necessary for me Doug - a fascinating and memory jogging link - exactly as I remember it - and some bits I'd forgotten. :thumbs:thumbs

Also, a superb little building - you'll be doing a complete :roll::roll::roll: "how I did it" on another thread no doubt...................................

OK Nick - you can have your thread back now - you'll get used to us "oldies" getting carried away from time to time.............:oops::oops::oops::cheers



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 Posted: Thu Aug 26th, 2010 04:21 pm
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Petermac wrote: pnwood wrote: ...........................................................................I hope that the sacks they hired out to local farmers for the harvest season were not the same ones that were used for the "nutty slack" the rest of the year :shock:

.......................................................

Funny they should mention hiring hessian sacks to farmers Nick.

When I was a tender youth in my teens, the Railway hired 16 stone hessian sacks to the local farmers.  They came to the nearest station in a box van, the farmers having been informed of the time of arrival.  The porter - in our case he was also the signalman - would throw these bundles of 20 sacks out, all very clean and tied with "baler twine", onto the platform whilst the train waited.  There might have been 100 bundles or more on the platform (and they were heavy) with all the farmers lined up like a soup kitchen waiting for their allocation.  We'd load our "order" onto a tractor and trailer and head off home ready for threshing day.  They were naturally called "Railway Sacks".  Once filled with their 16 stones of wheat (the only cereal which actually had to be sold off the farm to get the subsidy), they were loaded onto the tractor and trailer again and taken back to the station for transport to (in our case in East Yorkshire) either Rank Hovis McDougal or Spillers.  No 25kg weight limit in those days !!  Wheat was bagged in 16 stones (100 kgs) for sale and barley, oats and beans were threshed into "bags full".  As this usually stayed on the farm for animal feed, you just filled the bag so you didn't have to hire so many.  18 to 20 stones in each bag was quite normal on threshing days.  Then you had to carry it up the granary steps to the first floor on your back !!!!

I have absolutely no idea how they kept track of their whereabouts but, once they had arrived at the flour millers, they were "signed off" our account and became the responsibility of the miller.  They were usually hired (in bundles) by the week.

Ahh - the good old days. :hmm:hmm:hmm


 

One of the positions that Dad held when he worked for British Railways when he was alive  was "Sack Representative" for the Bristol Division  of Western Region . I had no idea up to then just how big the quantity of sacks used by railway customers was , it must have run into millions . Not that I ever saw many  - just a few that were " borrowed for the schools sports day sack races.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 26th, 2010 04:22 pm
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Nick

I know you have not done a lot of modelling  lately but I have to say I find your work inspirational and would dearly like to see some more progress results on the layout.

Bear in mind that I do tend to nag when I want to see something as Petermac and John Dew will no doubt testify to - so it would possibly be a good idea to give in gracefully .:eek::twisted::roll:



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