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British Steam verses Diesels - this'll put the cat amongst the pigeons!!! - General Model Railway Discussion. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 05:53 am
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Ted
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 Just a thought for Max .

 All my steam engines produce MORE steam than my diesel engine .

 Regards     Ted

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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 10:52 am
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MaxSouthOz
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I don't get it, Ted.  :chicken



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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 11:15 am
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Ted
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Max
Are you serious ?


 Ted    


 


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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 11:20 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Yes.  I haven't posted to this thread.

Are you confusing me with someone else?    :???:



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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 11:38 am
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Ed
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Post #2 Max, long time ago.

Ed



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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 11:49 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Ed.  April 29th 2009  No wonder I didn't remember.




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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 12:11 pm
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Ken
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Blimey, I'd forgotten all about my initial posting on this (7 years ago, wow!) and it was a bit tongue in cheek!   But the forum at that time was limited to 100 members and we had a lot of fun, in fact it really was like a family in the best sense of the word.

Mind you I still feel the same about the look and general ambience of steam locos as compared to diesels (Peter has summed it up very well) but of course we all model what we like best or more likely what we grew up with so basically it's different strokes for different folks.

Ken



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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 12:21 pm
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Hi Max

 I was having a stir about your comment . Stating that model steam engines

 do not produce enough steam for your liking .Then saying you prefer diesel engines.

 I still say my steam engines produce more steam than diesel engines. ( HA HA. ).

      Ted

 

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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 12:23 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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There is a young guy here in Adelaide, Dan Shepherd, who has smoke coming out of the places where steam comes from on a steam engine.

It could even be on YouTube.

It looks amazing.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 01:03 pm
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Petermac
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MaxSouthOz wrote: There is a young guy here in Adelaide, Dan Shepherd, who has smoke coming out of the places where steam comes from on a steam engine.

It could even be on YouTube.

It looks amazing.

That would be good to see Max - if you can find it .................:roll:

There's a German company that do a very expensive loco (O Gauge I think) offering the best "model" steam I've ever seen.  I think the loco is around the 1000 euro mark .........:shock::shock::shock:



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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 04:35 pm
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"GWR had shiney "bling" things on top to disguise the fact that they were crap and Southern used an insipid pea green colour although I did quite like the Battle of Britain class. As for the "Q1" Class - nuff said !!!" (Petermac 3/8/16)

Hi Peter - firstly let me say I'm glad you are recovered from your recent fall & are back on form (or forum).  However your injury must have upset your peception!

Wasn't a GW loco first to record over 100 m.p.h. in 1904? Didn't a 'Star' class wipe the floor with it's LNWR competition in the 1910 loco exchange?  In the 1925 interchange trials wasn't it a 'Castle' that trumped everything?

In the early '20s Maunsell got his personal assistant to ride a 'Castle' and later recommended that the new Southern express loco should be a four-cylinder 4-6-0.

After a 'Castle' was loaned to the LMS in 1926 the LMS loco department came up with a 'new' express passenger design, culminating in the 'Royal Scot' class, refered to during the production stage in official LMS correspondence as Improved Castles.

In 1927 the new King class ' King George V' was shipped to the USA as a prime example of British engineering where it impressed the American railwaymen by it's power and complete lack of black smoke.

In the 1948 freight locomotive trials Churchward's 28XX (a by then 40 year old design) came on top above Thompson's O1, Stanier's 8F & Riddles' WD 2-8-0 & 2-10-0 designs.

You couldn't wear out a Dean Goods.  Introduced in 1883 they were shipped all over the place during two World Wars and were still in service at the end of steam on BR in 1964.

So you can't dismiss the motive power of God's Wonderful Railway as 'crap'. I think you should go and have a cup of sweet tea and gently slap the side of your head until reason returns!

All the best.

Mal






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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 05:55 pm
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Nope, I can't see any "bling" things on top either Mal.


https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/centaur-wp/creativereview/prod/content/uploads/2015/09/02-HST-Livery.jpg






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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 06:04 pm
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Not forgetting that the 28xx's haulage record wasn't broken

until recently, and then it was only by a 9F!

Also, Churchward classic comment in reply to the company

accountant's query as to why his loco's cost 50% more to

build than other companies loco's, " Because 1 of mine

will pull 2 of theirs backwards! " *

They were the first company to use optical alignment

equipment to ensure accurate chassis assembly and

had the best rolling road/testing equipment as well. 


*edited to remove his swear word!




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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 06:57 pm
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Ed wrote: Nope, I can't see any "bling" things on top either Mal.


https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/centaur-wp/creativereview/prod/content/uploads/2015/09/02-HST-Livery.jpg





If memory serves me right Ed, aren't those things ex East Coast mainline HS 125's ? :roll::roll:  I think "we" built them, ran them into the ground over about 30 years then, GWR, gasping for something "modern", gave them a new paint job and pretended they'd moved into the 21st century ......................;-)

And Mal, I think you've probably made a few reasonable points but actually misrepresented the facts.

Yes, City of Truro was the first to clock 100mph but I think it was trying to get AWAY from the west country at the time.  In such circumstances, I could probably equal her ...............:lol::lol:

In 1910, the LNWR kept it's best locos in reserve - they were clever enough to anticipate the Great War some 4 years later and knew the nation would need some "proper" locos then.  But be careful -  "Don't let the stars get in your eyes, don't let the moon break your heart ........etc. etc........"

Didn't Flying Scotsman follow KGV to the States and really steal the show ..............:hmm

Most of the rest of your post is just grasping at straws ...................:tongue:tongue

Oh and as for Jeff - the great engineeers in the north had been using optical alignment for years - it's called shutting one eye and "sighting" down the lump of steel to see if it's straight ................:cheers

I'll go and lie down now whilst I slap my sweet tea with the side of my head ..........................:cool wink




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 Posted: Thu Aug 4th, 2016 10:17 pm
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It is alleged that City of Truro reached 100 mph.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2016 01:45 am
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Of course the City of Truro had the benefit of going down Wellington bank, 1 in 90. What's more impressive is the second half of the run from Bristol to Paddington, with the Dean Single "Duke of Connaught" pulling 120 tons, where 91.8 mph was reached on the flat. Wellington Bank was the racetrack of the Bristol and Exeter in broad-gauge days, with Pearson 4-2-4 singles reaching nearly 82 mph.

The above illustrates why diesels took over from steam. Nothing to do with cost per mile (the difference between an efficient steam engine and a 2-stroke diesel electric was marginal to minuscule and usually in favor of steam until the engineers learned how to get maximum power from diesel engines by turbocharging), it was how far they could run without refueling/maintenance. 300-400 miles for passenger engines, 100 or less for freight engines. Compare that to the thousands regularly clocked up by even the early diesels.

GWR. Never mind the bling, feel the quality. Everybody knows that Churchward designed his standardized steam engines to have mechanical tolerances way in excess of the other companies. The wear specifications for a general repair at the GWR were often better than those "as new" from the others. Need I mention failed third cylinder main bearings, cracked cylinder heads, and aniseed bombs? Eventually solved by using decent GWR-style valve gear and GWR main bearings. And keeping the speed down to 80 mph 'cos they weren't really up to 100 mph running.

From a modeling perspective diesels are just as interesting as steam engines. Both types suffer from less than satisfactory smoke and steam generators, one of the many things we have to live with in HO/OO. If you want realistic steam and diesel exhausts move up to G-scale (or larger). Or join a local preservation society.

Nigel










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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2016 10:36 am
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I'm not going to be drawn into this any further,

suffice to say that jealousy is a sad affliction.


(it won't let me add any emoticons!)







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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2016 11:30 am
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:mutley:mutley:mutley



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 Posted: Sat Aug 6th, 2016 01:33 am
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And I refrained from bringing up the world steam speed record. Just. Oh why not.  I have come across 2 independent confirmations of Pennsylvania Railroad's pacific 7002 127.1 mph run in 1905. Line-side stopwatches by PR officials and signal box telegraph operator reports in real time to headquarters over a continuously open line when the train passed. Belpaire boilered. Much more efficient steam generators if not as pretty as the circular types.

On a more serious note, many North American passenger steam trains routinely ran at a scheduled 100 mph for long distances (which meant going considerably faster to allow for starting and stopping, signal blocks, etc.). Diesels were often geared for 100-120 mph running over here, but rarely exceeded 87-90 mph (due in part to the limitations of single track running and ICC politics). It's telling that the current high speed trains are all electric. And rare indeed is the layout that models them. Wonder why? (apart from the obvious catenary construction issue, they look a bit silly with the pantograph raised and nothing there).

Nigel



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 Posted: Sat Aug 6th, 2016 01:11 pm
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Going a bit off Ken's original topic Nigel, but there appear to be a few on YouTube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BsGKhmc1VA


Ed



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