Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Other Areas. > General Model Railway Discussion. > British Steam verses Diesels - this'll put the cat amongst the pigeons!!! To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

British Steam verses Diesels - this'll put the cat amongst the pigeons!!! - General Model Railway Discussion. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:09 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 1st post
Ken
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 21st, 2007
Location: Okehampton, Devon., United Kingdom
Posts: 1311
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

As we haven't had much controversy on here recently :roll::lol: - I thought I would ask a question that has long puzzled me:-  "why does anyone here choose to model these awful looking characterless Diesels when there is the sublime option of Steam"?   Of course I can well understand that our younger members who have grown up with these would be swayed in this direction but not the older generation who therefore must surely be going off the rails!!!:cry:

Seriously though, I really am mystified by this and would like to hear some viewpoints which hopefully might make me view Diesels in another light (thinks: yes, darkness preferably!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Oh, why I am such a "mal hombre"! - sorry but my sense of humour is such that I just can't refuse a good joke when I see it).

I must now put on my Hard Hat and retreat to a safe place - yeah, the looney bin I can hear some say!;-)

Ken.



____________________
'It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Swing'
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:18 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 2nd post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12221
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ken.  Good to have you back.  I'll tell you why I prefer diesels; it's because model steam locos DON'T MAKE ENOUGH SMOKE!  - see my earlier post . . . Cherie Ho!



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:26 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 3rd post
Matt
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

good question

DIESEL DIESEL DIESEL all the way.

now i started with a few GWR kettles (7) which were DCC fitted and worked fine. as i was new to the hobby i decided to buy a EWS class 66 to pull my CMX track cleaner. now i was introduced to LIGHTS  this was new and i would sit and just run forward reverse forward reverse for an hour or so. it just looked the business. i then brought a class 37 and i was hooked. i have tested the water with weathering and i much prefer the look on the diesels than on the kettles, they look like work horses. i have yet to try out sound, i am tempted but i know i will be bitten by the bug and that will be another story. i have heard many vids of sound locos both steam and diesel and i don't think you can beat a diesel loco idling away.

 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:37 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 4th post
Sol
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Now while team locos hissing while waiting to take off are just as good as diesels in the sound departmemnt & combined with chuff-chuffs match diesel growls, I prefer diesels for the model electrical pickup & mechanical drive which I think is better than steam.

Now I am comparing model  diesels with all wheel pickup & drive - not the pancake Hornby version .

Of course Steam locos from Roco with tenderdrive & loco drive using drive shaft are ideal for that purpose but having an European tender loco on a GWR branchline looks slightly out of place.

The later Hornby/Bachmann steam are good in pickups & traction but I do believe the deisels are better in that field.

Also diesels generally can tolerate sharper radius & bumpier/rougher track work than large steam locos.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:59 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 5th post
SRman
Member


Joined: Sat Jan 10th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2485
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I have to agree with Ron's comments about diesels being able to handle less well laid track and tighter curves. With modern flywheel mechs they are smoother and able to haul almost anything one can hang off the couplings.

 

Steam can be beautiful but I have often found that ugly prototypes make the best models because there is more character to latch on to. That applies to locomotives and to buses (cars and lorries too, I think), IMHO.

 

Diesels also have more distinctive sounds, in general, although there are certainly particular steam classes that were very distinctive as well. With more and more sound-fitted models available that has to count for something too.



____________________
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 11:08 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 6th post
MikeC
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I agree with Ron and Jeff . To me, diesels perform much better. I can't say I've ever been a fan of large steamers. They take up far too much room for me. I don't mind the tank engines though. Matt raised a good point about the lights too.

Mike

 0ops  should have mentioned I have no experience with British diesels.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 12:16 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 7th post
Christrerise
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

The trouble is there is no real answer to this!  Why would some people like jazz and others prefer pop?  Everybody is different and whatever gives pleasure for whatever reason to the individual is fine - be pretty boring if everybody was the same.

I think that diesels do run much better than steam but even if this was not true I would still prefer to model the diesel era just because it is what I remember.  The Southern Electric routes also fascinate me because I worked there for so long.

For some reason the Diesel Hydraulics also interest me even though these had virtually all gone as I was growing up.

In reality I could probably find a reason to like everything railways wherever or whatever they may be!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 01:24 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 8th post
rector
Full Member


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 3933
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

One word:  Cost!  The price of a DCC steamer is a little high right now :???:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:09 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 9th post
owen69
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

my twopennorth, lorries are for roads not rails !!!

steamers are alive,there is something  about pistons,cranks etc all
that movement, steam and smoke, yummy.

:pedal:mutley:mutley:mutley:roll::cool:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:52 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 10th post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16244
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ken - glad you're not being contoversial after your birthday !!!

I think it's been said - your question was "why does anyone here choose to MODEL these etc.etc.".  There's you answer.  I have to agree with everyone - in model form, diesels perform far better - they pick up more efficiently and traction is much better. Larger motors / weights can be fitted because the body is just an ugly box !!!  No sleek streamlined bodywork there.

In real life of course, only those without a soul (or still wet behind the ears) would prefer dirty, noisy, polluting, smelly, characterless diesels (not to mention that dreadful colour and the arrows to say "I don't know if I'm coming or going") - to name but a few draw-backs !!

Steam was alive, it had character, they had to be looked after, even nursed and, to get the best out of them, needed skill and knowledge.  Diesels - you sit in them, press the odd button and flog the daylights out of them until they stop.  You then send them into a garage where a "fitter" replaces the knackered part and the cycle begins again.  Even I could drive one !!

In addition, they use up Arab oil like there's no tomorrow and churn out black smoke (because no-one knows how to adjust the injectors properly) which just coats everything with greasy, poisonous grime.

Steam also uses fossil fuel but there's still enough in UK alone to last 300 years.  The debris from burning the coal (with the exception of the sulphur - the carbon monoxide arrives in such small quantities it's not worth bothering about)  is non-poisonous and totally bio degradeable and is even rich in minerals which improve soil for the farmers. 

The sulphur is relatively easy to remove but, at the time, they didn't want to spend the money for the modifications.  How many roads and yards have you seen with a base of diesel exhaust ?  There must be thousands of acres of clinker-based hard standings around the country !!

Of course, I have absolutely no intention of starting any arguments off ....................................:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:29 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 11th post
Bob K
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Bedfordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 2753
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I prefer steam to diesel in the real world, but when it comes to model railways I have to go for diesels. My reasons are:

The running qualities of model diesels are far better as has already been mentioned and they cope better with inclines, are heavier etc. When fitted with sound and lights they are fun to operate. They can operate without the use of a turntable to have them pointing the right way and are easy to fit with DCC.

Steam locos on the other hand look superb but are much more challenging to get them to run smoothly. Even with sound they still do not look like steam engines, they lack smoke and steam and UK engines did not really have lights. I know you can fit smoke generators, but they do not look real to me as the smoke is 'out of scale'.

I do run some steam locos and enjoy watching them, but I find, as operating models, the diesels much more satisfying and less hassle. There that's my humble view!

Bob(K)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 04:06 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 12th post
Gwent Rail
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I'm very suprised to see myself write this, but I'm almost totally in tune wuth Novice's post :exclam:exclam:shock:

My GWR kettles will always be my real life favorites, but I'm a diesel convert as far as 4mm modelling is concerned. Lights, Sound and smooth operation, I even like the look of some of them now. :???::???::???: 

If the GWR had continued to exist, there's no doubt they would have been at the front of diesel development. Then there would be no arguement as to what we should model :exclam:exclam:exclam

Nurse, Nurse, my medicine is due, Nurse.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 04:10 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 13th post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16244
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

You need to go and lie down Jeff :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:..............but I absolutely agree with you except it would have been LNER at the forefront !!:cheers



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 05:33 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 14th post
Alan
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I used to love the good old steam loco' and for years would not even look at a page in a mag or even a photo of a diesel, it was steam all the way for me, and even then they had to GWR only.

But then we moved to EM and I spent years trying to get anything other than a 0-6-0 to work, I lost my love for these lovely little engines

And then out of the blue ( sorry pun intended ) a diesel appeared in the shed, and it ran like nothing I have even seen before, even at shows and with some of the best loco builders the steam loco's still played up.

But the main reason that we moved was DCC, as at the time you couldn't really fit a decoder into many steam loco's, along with the pick-up, and the fact that they trundle along at slow speeds, so we brought another, and another and so on, we only have one steam loco that is DCC fitted, that being a class 45, and that plays up, and it's new !!.

As Matt said, also the fact of lights, this then changed the way we looked at our layout, it also needed lights, and that meant a different way of viewing the layout, which adds more life to it, as we can run it as a daylight session, and also a night session.

Then Sound ...........................................................................................but that's another story.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 06:22 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 15th post
owen69
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

oh, ok i`ll come clean yes diesels do run better and pull better and i
do have them on my lines,
BUT I STILL LIKE STEAM...

:pedal:pedal:twisted::cool:

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 07:51 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 16th post
Ken
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 21st, 2007
Location: Okehampton, Devon., United Kingdom
Posts: 1311
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Petermac wrote: ..........your question was "why does anyone here choose to MODEL these etc.etc."........
I was wondering why the answers I was getting weren't exactly what I expected and now realise I should have added "apart from Diesel MODELS having better running qualities" --- which I wasn't aware of anyway!   What I was trying to get at is why anyone preferred the look of Diesels when compared to British Steam engines - particularly the GWR (for Phill that bit!).   Mind you Chris has brought me down to earth with his Jazz V Pop analogy so I guess it's a case of "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".

For me, Steam engines are really beautiful and I wouldn't want to model anything else and even though I'm GWR (& Southern) all the way, I would never even want one of those strange modern looking GWR Railcars as they look completely out of place on a Steam layout!    Oh well.................

Ken.



____________________
'It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Swing'
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 08:13 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 17th post
georgejacksongenius
Kettle Watcher


Joined: Thu Feb 28th, 2008
Location: Hyde,Cheshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 2398
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Just to take up the point of model diesels running better than steam....that may well be the case with 00 models,but in my limited experience of them in n gauge,I have a GWR railcar that runs like a pig,and have just acquired a farish power bogie for a future project that is also a noisey little beggar!
  As for the real things,I do have to admit to likeing SOME diesels,as in my train-spotting days they were everywhere..but it's still kettles I prefer,particularly those designed by a certain Mr.Churchward,and one of his disciples,Mr.Stanier.
(I love those tapered boilers!!!)

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 08:48 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 18th post
henryparrot
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Well i like trains i  like steam diesals or whatever they are powered by the point about what you grew up around is very true i can only just remember seeing steam trains as they were being phased out as i was growing up i suppose when i started trainspotting as a kid the kings were still the Deltics really but by that time the class 86 electric was far more powerfull i must admit everything today does seem to be DMU or EMU units there are not as many straightforward locomotives around now.

cheers Brian

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:02 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 19th post
Sol
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John B, not having a good look at UK N scale locos, I cannot comment on running abilities but the USA models of Kato, etc, run like a Dream.
Now that said, in the model form - most diesels( including electric locos)run better than steam outline. In real life Steam look better as if they are doing work.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:11 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 20th post
MikeC
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Based on looks alone I think all steam is way ahead of UK diesels. I would only be drawn to them for running qualities and sound. US [and Aussie] diesels are another matter. To me they look great.

Mike

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 3947     Current time is 06:06 am Page:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Other Areas. > General Model Railway Discussion. > British Steam verses Diesels - this'll put the cat amongst the pigeons!!!
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.