Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > More Practical Help > Members Projects > On Members Workbenches. > West Coast Miniatures To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  ...  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

West Coast Miniatures - On Members Workbenches. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Apr 7th, 2009 09:21 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 41st post
henryparrot
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave i think your £30 you are underselling your product you are talking a hand built product not a machine moulded production everyday model.

You are doing this to make money not give the stuff away yes you will flog loads at £30

If you start at a higher price you can drop if needed whereas you start at £30 its harder to increase the price.

cheers Brian

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2009 06:50 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 42nd post
Christrerise
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I agree completely with Brian.  You cannot compete with Skaledale and Scenecraft as they are mass produced using cheap labour in China and their unit costs will be much lower.  There is no point trying to compete with them - for all the time you have spent etc £30 is not a proper reward.

So many people go wrong under-selling themselves and while not wanting to put too much of a downer on things a little thought now will reap the rewards later.

One of the main factors in setting your price is how many do you expect to sell?  I believe that the production runs in the OO ranges are between 500 - 1000 of each, more in the more popular buildings like signal boxes etc.  This of course means that their tooling cost is spread over many models which helps make them so cheap.

If you are aiming to sell 20 say, then your tooling cost will need to be recouped in these 20.  Everything beyond that will then be profit, less an amount for materials and labour.  If you are aiming for 100 then your costs will come down, but only if you actually sell them all of course!

Packaging costs must also be considered - you do not want the items arriving damaged but you will need to allow for the fact that some will, and you will have to replace these free of charge.  Remember that some people will fib about damage as well and claim that they were damaged on arrival when they have actually broken them as they try to modify or just drop them!  Some people may even claim never to have received them...

Remember that what you are making is a unique hand built model.  You may even want to market them as limited production with a limited run to encourage sales.  If you need to sell 20 to make a profit them produce a cheap certificate on word and advertise in advance that this is all that will be made.  You can always modify the mould to have extra doors, or paint them differently for a future batch.

I am sure you will be worried about pricing yourself too highly but given that you cannot compete with the big boys on price then don't try to.  You will be selling to people who are used to paying to have models built and they are not short of cash.  If you think of the economics - say you sell 20 and they cost £20 each for you to build.  If you sell them for £30 you have £600, minus £400 cost you have £200.  Each extra £5 on the price gives you £100 extra.  Sell for £40 and just £10 extra has doubled your profit. 

Marty has suggested that you should have worked on your business plan - you really need to do this if you have not already and if you need any help I am sure there are plenty of people here willing to advise you. 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2009 08:17 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 43rd post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16786
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Very well said Chris. :thumbs

Dave - leave the mass market to those who are geared up to do it (both financially, tool and labour wise)  You concentrate on the much smaller specialist market.  As Chris says, there are people out there who will pay what, to most of us, is a fortune to have something "different".  They are far fewer in number but have much more cash !!!

If you undersell, you'll be working like a slave for absolutely nothing and it will very quickly P you off !!



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2009 08:40 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 44th post
Alan
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave

I never for one moment thought that you would be selling these HAND BUILT station buildings for anything under £50.00 unpainted, and if you sell them painted and wired then they have to be at least double that.

To start something like this is hard, and at first it's just a add on to your hobby, but the people that will be buying your product will not be thinking that way, they are looking at a limited production run.

You need to look into how many hours it takes you to make one up, and also the total cost of each set of mouldings, You can look at this a simple way, and only you will know the answer to this question, how much do you need a week from wages to live, or what is your hourly rate at the moment, add at least £3.00 to that and that can be your hourly charge for making these up, then double the the cost of all the parts, buildings etc packing, paperwork etc, this will give you you real cost of each product, normally you would then double this to give you your selling price.

Hope that this has helped.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2009 11:47 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 45th post
Matt
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave

the brown resin i used was set in 30 mins, i left for 60 mins before removing and these were set solid and not tacky. maybe you should get some to experiment with.

i also used primer as a first coat, this seemed to work a lot better than painting onto the resin.

i have removed mouldings early so i could bend the casting. this was for an experiment on a wall that i wanted round a bend. it worked out well.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2009 04:20 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 46th post
87 101
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks guys for all the advice. As for a relistic price is anyones guess?? I need to get enough for each building to make it worth while but I dont want to aim too high and end up being stuck with them! Once I have the first one built possably by the end of next week I will have a better idea. I think it all comes down to the fact that I have always worked hard for not a lot of money so to me £30 is a lot of money to spend on a building. :roll:  

Matt thanks for the tip on the brown resin. I will be using the brown stuff for two internal walls, end opening and the roof all the rest will be made from the clearcast due to the windows. Well tonights the night to use the rest of the wall molds as they have now been sitting for three days. They are slightly thinner than the first two so I just hope they work as well.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2009 04:38 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 47th post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16786
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave - I take your point about working hard for little money - I spent many years doing just that before I saw the light !!!

At £30, you'd be in the same market as Scaledale etc. and not only can't you compete, you definitely shouldn't !!  For a specialist hand built model, people EXPECT to pay lts more.  It goes without saying, your building should be good but if you price yourself too low, people will suspect there's something wrong with them.  You really can be too cheap !!!

It's a fine line you'll be driving but too cheap and people will buy Scaledale, too dear and you won't sell any.  Listen to what the members are saying - they're all buyers and know what they'd expect to pay !!!!!

Don't expect to sell hundreds of them either - limited editions are just that !!



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2009 05:45 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 48th post
Robert
Deceased Member


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Benidorm, Alicante, Spain
Posts: 12454
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

If you should price them too high and nothing is selling then you could always try a Spring/Summer/Autumn/Winter sale Dave. Knock say 10% off, and if they sell, then you will know the right price.



____________________
The time in Spain is :


Barchester
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 12:35 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 49th post
MikeC
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Price them highish to start with. If you were to sell readily at a lower price, you'd always be thinking you could have got more for them, and if you were to raise the price once they became popular you'd run the risk of alienating your potential market who would resent paying a higher price for an item that others purchased for less.

Mike

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 08:54 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 50th post
Alan
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

How have the first set of complete mouldings come out Dave

Are you happy

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 04:07 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 51st post
87 101
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks guys for all the advice on costs. I have decided to go with Chris's idea of doing a limited run as well as making the LED lighting a standard feature. I think by offering the buildings with the lighting already installed it will tempt more sales?? Matt thanks for the tip on the brown resin. Last night I used some to make two of the four internal walls + the end wall on the extension. I left it for about an hour before removing from the molds then laid the parts on a flat surface overnight. The clear stuff I removed this morning is still flexable and quite sticky so looks like this needs the full 24 hours to set. With a couple of hours spare this afternoon I have updated the website. Once I can find some footage that I shot of the WCML I can start my you tube add. I have this story boarded in my head so just need to find the footage as it's a long way to travel to shoot some more! :roll:  Had some more ideas for products this morning so all will be reveailed in due course once I get this first building sorted! ;-)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 04:26 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 52nd post
mikeyh
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave. I definately think the idea of offering your models with lighting already included is a bril idea! its the electronics that always puts a lot of people off!!

Mikey

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Apr 11th, 2009 02:07 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 53rd post
MikeC
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yep - it would put me off for sure. Pre-installed lighting makes the product very tempting.

Mike

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 11:33 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 54th post
87 101
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Been a disapointing weekend as I would have liked to have got further with the station building. Friday after picking up Rachels mum from the station I spent the afternoon working on the website. I have added a latest news page along with a bit of tidying up. The remaining wall sections didn't come out as well as planned as I didn't use enough resin. They will however still be used as the first building is efectivly the prototype. With the rest of the walls added it now looks like...



 
I did also try to remove the walls from the molds after a couple of hours without sucess so looks like they will need the full 24 hours to set before removal. The brown resin however can be removed after an hour so I may make up a batch of the plain walls and then keep them to one side untill needed. Moving on to the roof. I found a supplier on the internet for the leds for the lighting.  I can get 100 3mm frosted white leds for £23 and 100 resistors for £2 so as regards lighting I have got the cost down to £2.50 per building. The roof it's self will be made of two castings. The top one will have a ribbed finish to make the roof more intresting to look at whilst the bottom section will have all the holes for the leds with the wiring sandwiched between the two. The lighting will be configured for 12v opperation and will be just a case of connecting the two wires from the building to the layouts lighting supply. Of course if the lighting is run on a lower voltage the lights will be dimmer and proberly look more relistic but by setting the default supply at 12v gives the buyer the choice. Saturday was spent at beamish open air museum. I forgot to charge the camera battries up so no pics although if we send off the recept and some paperwork we will be sent a years pass so next time I will get some pickys! Unfortunalty Yesterday was spent in bed with a dental abcess so a waisted day modeling wise. Today the shops were open so now I have some pain killers I feel much better. :thud ;-)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 11:46 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 55th post
Robert
Deceased Member


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Benidorm, Alicante, Spain
Posts: 12454
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

The web site is looking good Dave. Well worth the extra time spent on it.



____________________
The time in Spain is :


Barchester
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 01:01 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 56th post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16786
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Dave

Just had a very quick shifty at the home page on your web-site.  Looks good although there are one or two things that seemed slightly odd grammatically.  You may want to check them or leave as they are :roll::roll:

In your opening sentence - "Don't be put of much longer" should surely be "Don't be put off ANY longer"

"Individual" and "bespoke" are synonymous - you need one or the other, not both.

"Links London to Glasgow" - should be "Links London WITH Glasgow"

You said "with West Coast Minatures, I aim to recreate etc."  You are advertising a company, not yourself.  It might be better to say "West Coast Minatures aims to recreate ......"   Using "I" suggests that WCM is just you !!  Think big - let the public assume it's a company (you can be Chairman if you like but it's the company that matters).

You might think this is nit-picking, and maybe it is,  but you never know who's going to read it and, to many people,  image is very important when they deal over the internet.

Just to finish, I noticed you had costed your lighting based on the cost of the LED's you've sourced.  Don't forget the wiring/electrical tape or whatever, any connectors plus your time.

I'd sit down with a piece of paper and build a model in your mind.  Every time you make a mould, use glue, fit a light etc. etc. list EXACTLY what you do, what you use, how long it takes and what it costs.  Your "consumables" are your glue, scalpel blades, sandpaper, paint brushes, plasters for cut fingers, soap to wash off the release agent  etc. etc just as much as they are your LED's and resin.  Honestly Dave, simply EVERYTHING MUST be included or you'll end up subsidising your buyers to the extent that you might just as well not waste your time -  send them a cheque instead !!!



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 01:21 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 57th post
mikeyh
Former Member
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yes Dave This is all part of your business plan. I'll second what Petermac is saying.

Mikey

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 03:57 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 58th post
phill
Hello


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Lancing West Sussex, United Kingdom
Posts: 6496
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

For what its worth i also agree with Peter. You have to list each and every thing you do Dave, may seem trivial say for arguments sake 5p for a piece of something but they all add up mate. I mean i wont let people off 10p when they say their are short of the fare, it  would add up drastically by the end of the week. You have to do the same Dave. As Peter says make a list of what you use, all the way to the end product total it up and then add more for you profit.

Hope you take this as advice Dave.

Phill

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 04:04 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 59th post
Kevr
Member


Joined: Sun Dec 16th, 2007
Location: Llanharan, South Wales, United Kingdom
Posts: 1543
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

 

 Phill, you mean to say that after standing for hours waiting in the Pi**i*g rain, being greeted by a misarable bloke who has to sit on his own at the front, being squashed up next to some smelly long haired student, and getting off miles from where you want to go (cause there's never a stop near your destination)............You have to PAY for it. You will be telling us next that they will be taking all the conductors off the buses.:roll::roll::cry::lol:;-)



____________________
'Kev
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 04:11 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 60th post
phill
Hello


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Lancing West Sussex, United Kingdom
Posts: 6496
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yes mate, rules are rules and i aint letting anyone on if they aint got a pass, ticket or money etc. Not my fault the idiot has stood for age's in the pi....ng rain. I got wet getting the bus ready mate :twisted::mutley

Just hope i meet you one day mate, i drive pass you :twisted:  because i know you give me grief :mutley

Phill

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 3752     Current time is 08:47 pm Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  ...  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > More Practical Help > Members Projects > On Members Workbenches. > West Coast Miniatures
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.