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Perry
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I am currently in the pre-planning stage of what will be another scratchbuilt building for the town area of my layout.

The model will be based on a building in my home town that used to be a Co-op store many years ago. To my eyes, it's a beautiful building with some lovely fancy brick columns at the front. I have located some old images of what it used to look like and have discovered that, as is often the case, the main structure of the building has actually changed very little. It's just the details that have altered.

Here is the building as it is today (or was last week!):



I will be constructing a low-relief model based on this building but thought I would do things a little differently this time. I reckon you must all be getting pretty sick of watching me glue bits of plastic together, so what I thought I'd do is to go into more detail about how I tackle preparing the plans and less about the build itself.

Perry

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Lovely building,Perry.Looking forward to seeing how you tackle it!!!

Cheers,John.B.

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That's a very good idea, Perry, an insight into the planning stages would be good. However, that doesn't mean that you can get away with no posts covering the actual build   ...   you've got no chance my friend. :exclam:exclam  :thumbs:thumbs

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that is a building worthy of your talents,the idiots up here can only pull them down.
look forward to the build.
:cheers:thumbs:thumbs:lol::lol::lol::cool:

Perry
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Gwent Rail wrote: That's a very good idea, Perry, an insight into the planning stages would be good. However, that doesn't mean that you can get away with no posts covering the actual build   ...   you've got no chance my friend. :exclam:exclam  :thumbs:thumbs

Cheers Jeff. :cheers

Unfortunately my builds do have something of a habit of becoming marathons. :oops: I thought that by covering a different aspect of the building process, it might maintain the interest of our members and not bore them all to death.

I will happily show how the build is progressing from time to time, and I'll mention anything out of the ordinary that it throws at me, but I don't plan on doing a step-by-step report on it. It would be way too boring.:It's a no no

Perry

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Boring :It's a no no:It's a no no  Never  :exclam:exclam Well, not to me anyway.

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Perry, we'll leave it to you then. The idea of showing the preparations you do is an excellent one and I'm looking foward to it.

Just don't be suprised if you get pestered for more details when the actual build starts :exclam:exclam

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Perry, I think that this should not be an "either-or" thread, but a 'both-and." I'm looking forward to the marathon:thumbs

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rector wrote:
Perry, I think that this should not be an "either-or" thread, but a 'both-and." I'm looking forward to the marathon:thumbs

Well Said Tim, I totally agree. Perry, I just do not see where you think it is boring, If you had any idea how many times a day I check to see if you've posted anything, you would not think that.

Just remember Perry, I'm Still Learning Here. Plus, I'm thinking seriously about starting a house of my own, not as eloquent as yours, but just as challenging. Well maybe not quite. :cool wink

However, I do understand how much time it takes to post all of the info. It is Greatly Appreciated though. :doublethumb

Wayne :doublethumb

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Now Perry boring is a horrible word and this word do's not fit :It's a no no into any of your scratchbuilds mate but we shall leave it up to you, just make sure your camera is at the ready for all the questions that we shall fire at you.

Phill

Perry
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Ok, I give in.  :roll:

I will include some of the build itself, but only to cover the more 'interesting bits' - and please don't say it's all interesting  :It's a no nobecause a lot of it will just be using techniques and methods that I've shown in detail before on other projects.

As you know, taking the photos, processing and uploading them and writing the associated posts all takes time - not that I mind doing it. The folks here are so appreciative that it is most enjoyable, but I would like time to work on my layout and even run some trains occasionally! :thumbs

Expect the first planning posts in the next few days. I'm busy making a little device that should prove helpful. All will be revealed soon. ;-)

Perry

Perry
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Wayne Williams wrote: .............I just do not see where you think it is boring.........
 

Thanks for your kind comments, Wayne. I sometimes think that my scratchbuild threads become way too long and involved. What I don't want to happen is that people get bored along the way because it is taking so long to get anywhere. The main idea behind these threads is to encourage other modellers to have a go at scratchbuilding, not to discourage them by making a job look such a mammoth task that it appears to be beyond their capabilities. As I've often said before - and it has been proven on this forum by several people - it may look difficult, but it isn't. All one needs to do is to try. :brickwall

Perry

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Great idea Perry. Could I ask you to include how you measure the prototypes where it's not possible to get on site please? I've a fairly good idea (eg counting bricks, using a standard door etc) but when you get to it, any advice would be appreciated.:thumbs

Les

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Les wrote: Great idea Perry. Could I ask you to include how you measure the prototypes where it's not possible to get on site please? I've a fairly good idea (eg counting bricks, using a standard door etc) but when you get to it, any advice would be appreciated.:thumbs

Les


Exactly the direction I was intending to take this time, Les. :thumbs

Perry

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Great another one of Perry's masterclass's

Note to SWMBO, get a lot of Red Bull's in stock, this could be the longest yet.

:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb

Note to me

Sit back and learn.

Last edited on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 08:02 pm by

Perry
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Alan wrote: Great another one of Perry's masterclass's

Note to SWMBO, get a lot of Red Bull's in stock, this could be the longest yet.

:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb

Not to me

Sit back and learn.


Blimey! Please don't give anyone the impression that I actually know what I'm doing. If only you knew......................:hmm

I sincerely hope this isn't the longest yet. That Goods Shed thread almost put me into therapy for a 12-month!

Anyway, I've nearly completed my 'Secret Weapon' so I'll give you a clue; it makes measuring buildings you are photographing a lot easier. :cool wink

Perry

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:hmmcould it be some kind of lazer type device, ie you shine a dot on the bottom and top of the building and it calculates the height or what ever ?

No wide of the mark i supose.

Phill

Perry
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Incredibly wide, Phill. Not that hi-tec, I'm afraid. Who do you think I am; James Bond?  :It's a no no

Perry

Last edited on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 08:25 pm by Perry

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The "secret weapon" - a 6ft pole marked with feet, placed next to the object, gives a point of reference - that is my "expert" thought. :cool:

Perry
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Sol wrote: The "secret weapon" - a 6ft pole marked with feet, placed next to the object, gives a point of reference - that is my "expert" thought. :cool:

If there was a prize, you would have won it! Spot on.

I'm making a six-foot measuring stick that folds in half. Open it out, prop it against the building or lay it on the ground and snap away with the camera. Result: instant scaled pictures.

I'll post a photo of the 'secret weapon' when the paint's dry. :doublethumb

Perry

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Here - finally - are the 'Secret Weapon' pictures:









As you can probably see, it is constructed from some pieces of nominal 2" x 1" (50mm x 25mm) timber left over from the last session of baseboard building.

I cut two 3 foot lengths and gave them a couple of coats of white paint.  When they were dry, I marked them off at suitable intervals; I chose feet and inches 'cos that's what I prefer. Then I used masking tape to delineate the areas to be painted black.

A brass hinge from the scrap box was screwed in place to join the two parts together and a small hook catch was attached on the reverse side to stop it folding up when I don't want it to.

The pictures show how it can be used straight or angled, and folds in half for ease of transportation.

Rocket science it isn't, but useful to me it most certainly is. It can be propped or held  against a building, or whatever else one needs to measure, by a willing assistant - SWMBO perhaps: ( "Let me take a nice picture of you, dear - and oh, by the way, would you mind taking this and standing against that signal box with it, please?...............") :mutley:mutley:mutley

It is then photographed in situ and allows reasonably accurate measurements to be worked out from the resultant images.

Perry

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Ingenious Perry - do the Ministry of Defence know about these new weapons.

Brilliant idea but I don't think I'd have the nerve to turn up with them and start measuring.:cry:

Les

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Les put the camera on a tripod, stick Perry`s secret weapon up and people
will assume you are a surveyor.
a very useful tool Perry i bet you will find it invaluable.

:pathead:pathead:lol::lol::lol::cool:

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It looks like you have been convinced to do another marathon Perry

A lot of work for you but i feel sure in saying all the core members will follow your great descriptions with great interest and all of us get inspiration from what you do

cheers Brian

Perry
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I generally find that a polite request for permission to measure up is seldom denied - especially if the reason for it is explained. They may think you're slightly mad, but are then even more likely to want to humour you. :pathead

Obviously sensitive subjects and sites are best avoided, but we are railway modellers after all - not military ones.

I have tried using an expanding steel rule - the type that pull out from a reel casing. They obviously do the job of measuring OK, but the dimensions don't show up too well, if at all, in photographs.

Perry

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Like all secret weapons, this one can go in virtually undetected, get the job done and get out fast!

Well Done Perry!

Wayne

Perry
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Les wrote: Ingenious Perry - do the Ministry of Defence know about these new weapons.

Brilliant idea but I don't think I'd have the nerve to turn up with them and start measuring.:cry:

Les


I'm very thick skinned. I have been insulted by experts, but I'm still around! :cool wink

If the subject has free and public access, you can always have a bit of fun by inventing an off-the-wall reason for doing what you're doing.

One incident I can relate goes back to when I was carrying out some voluntary wildlife surveying work some years back. The technique I was using involved brushing tree trunks with a soft hand-brush to extract small invertebrates from the bark fissures. I became aware of an observer who eventually asked what I was doing. The conversation went something like this:

"Hello. What are you doing?"

"Brushing this tree." 

"Why?"

"Well, we are expecting some VIP visitors to the Reserve later today and we can't have the trees looking all dusty, can we?"

At that he went happily on his way.

I also had a similar type of encounter on a local beach. I was using a telescope to view sea birds going past well out to sea. They were not visible to the naked eye, being too far out. Mr Anorak turned up.

"Hello. What are you doing?"

"You know how train spotters collect the numbers of railway engines?"

"Yes."

"Well, I collect the numbers off the conning towers of German U-Boats."

"Do you? How many have you got?"

"None so far. They're very rare now because the war ended about 50 years ago and there's not too many left."

"Oh. Good luck then."

I swear to you that both tales are true. :thud

The moral of these tales is that you can get away with any old cock and bull story as long as you tell it convincingly. Next I'll have you believing that I can make model buildings from scratch.... :mutley:mutley:mutley

I know all this is a bit off-topic - nay, a lot off topic, - but so what. I'm trying to convey not only my practical techniques and methods but also my mind-set. I will probably get seriously 'moderated' for this, but in the infamous words of Lauren Cooper, "Am I bovvered though?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Cooper

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Perry

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Meanwhile, back at the O.K. Corral......

I intend to begin the measuring up and photographic stage of the Co-op building within the next few days. I need a day when the light is good, the town isn't too busy with traffic and I have the time to do the job.

As the Co-op model will be fairly long and fairly high but not very 'deep', I will incorporate some MDF into the base to give stability and also provide something by which I can attach it to the layout baseboard with small screws.

Perry

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Can not wait Perry, looks like my new layout is going to suffer then :???:

Phill

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Measuring stick is a good idea, worth putting in the Forum Index Perry. Thanks.

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Perry, following those two "true" stories,  you won't be moderated by me.      How could I do that  :question considering I was the one to answer your question mid-week.

That is a very good important aid in the field of scratchbuilding.

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Perry wrote:As the Co-op model will be fairly long and fairly high but not very 'deep', I will incorporate some MDF into the base to give stability and also provide something by which I can attach it to the layout baseboard with small screws.

Sounds to me like you've been doing some planning already! Can't wait to see this get started.

Wayne

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Perry, I know that you were jesting about brushing the dust of the tree for VIPs, but in Aldershot we did see the Army painting the grass green for the Princess Royal's visit!

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 Yes Chris, whilst confined to the guardroom (for some minor misdomeaners), we had to paint the coal outside white and then paint it black again

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Kevr wrote:  

 Yes Chris, whilst confined to the guardroom (for some minor misdomeaners), we had to paint the coal outside white and then paint it black again


Oh yes happy days they where 2, 12 years and i lost count of painting coal and things that did not move :lol:.

Phill

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Sorry Perry to be getting off your topic, but it was also not unknown in Aldershot to see squaddies painting the yellow lines on the road with toothbrushes - no idea what they had done wrong to get that job!

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Christrerise wrote: Sorry Perry to be getting off your topic, but it was also not unknown in Aldershot to see squaddies painting the yellow lines on the road with toothbrushes - no idea what they had done wrong to get that job!

Perhaps they went off-topic? :mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wayne said: Sounds to me like you've been doing some planning already!

I think my planning process starts at the instant I decide that a subject would make a good model for my layout. It helps me look at things with a 'modeller's eye'. I look for the symmetry in a building. I try to see the whole broken down into it's component parts. (I hate trying to explain my thought processes. It always sounds pompous. :oops:) Anyway, for example, this Co-op building has a quite symmetrical front elevation. Split down the middle between the two gables each part is pretty much a mirror image of the other. Here's a reminder:



At the far right hand side there is an entrance which leads to the upper floor, but above the ground floor line it appears perfectly symmetrical. This will enable component parts to be fabricated quite rapidly; lots of the dimensions will be the same. Looking at the above photo, I have already considered that I will need to make slightly more than half the depth of the building because of the little 'tower' that sits in the middle of the roof. If I built that as low-relief, i.e. only half of it, it would look all wrong. I'm estimating at present that I can stop just beyond the middle pier on the left-hand side wall so that part of the reverse slope of the roof can support the complete 'tower'. However, it depends how it looks on the layout because, after measurements are obtained, a cardboard mock-up will be put in place to see how the whole thing looks. At that stage the whole project can still get binned if it doesn't look right.

Perry

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Sorry Sgt Perry - back on track now!

The Chubby Panda is an interesting business name as well:lol:

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And the building is on a slope too.:hmm

Les

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Les wrote: And the building is on a slope too.:hmm

Les


Quite correct, Les, but the model won't be. The town cross I built a model of is actually sited higher up the same incline, but my model is sited on level ground. I will have to use some modeller's licence to decide on the level for the ground on the model, but I'm guessing at this stage that as long as the main entrance in the middle of the building looks right, the rest will follow fairly naturally.

The 'Chubby Panda' is now a restaurant and are "Specialists in Thai and Chinese Cuisine" - and no, I haven't eaten there yet. It's quite a change from it's earlier use.

Perry

Last edited on Sat Nov 1st, 2008 06:44 pm by Perry

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I have now obtained some basic pictures and dimensions of the building and have started preparing a rough plan for the proposed model.

I use a cheap flat drawing board equipped with a very simple and basic set square and a couple of plastic set squares. A pencil, eraser, ruler, calculator and a basic geometry set completes the kit.

A few sheets of A4 paper have been taped to the drawing board with masking tape. A base or datum line was drawn across the paper towards the lower edge. It is from this line that all measurements are made.

Here is the kit in use:



The length of the front elevation of the model at 4mm=1 foot is 228 mm, or about 9", so it's quite a large construction. However, it will only be about 2" deep so that will reduce the work involved.

The rough drawing currently on the board is only the 'Mark 1'; there are bound to be corrections and alterations as I calculate all the different dimensions. When I have sorted them out to my satisfaction, I will draw a working plan.

Perry

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Here we go, here we go, here we go.

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That's a ROUGH drawing :question I would rather call it a carefully calculated provisional blueprint :exclam Now my scribblings are rough drawings :oops::oops:

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If thats a rough drawing then i am a GWR moder which i aint :thud.

Phill

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rector wrote: That's a ROUGH drawing :question I would rather call it a carefully calculated provisional blueprint :exclam Now my scribblings are rough drawings :oops::oops:

The scribblings which precede this stage are sort of freehand thumbnail sketches which I use to try out ideas and illustrate particular things that I need to consider as I prepare a plan.

This sort of drawing may look different, but it isn't really. It just a way of making everything fit together, the same as your plans, Tim. :thumbs I just use the facilities that I have to hand. If I didn't own a drawing board and try-square, etc, a pencil and ruler would do just as well. By the way, I have had that drawing board and try-square for about 40-odd years, so as you can guess, it's pretty basic.

Perry

Last edited on Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 06:17 am by Perry

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Perry, I see that your eraser is just like mine, almost gone! :mutley

I have the same basic setup as you do, except I've only had my drawing board for about 20 years.

One thing I could recommend is the pencil, I use a mechanical pencil with .5mm lead, that way the lines do not get very wide. At that reduced scale a wide line can cause lots of mistakes. It is always wise though, to check your scale with the calculator, a good cross check, that can save many troubling hours of labor.

Wayne

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I appreciate your comments regarding the width of the pencil lines, Wayne. I am very aware of the problems this can cause - so much so that I often do the actual marking out on the material with a knife rather than a pencil. Most of my baseboard woodwork was marked out with a knife where a high degree of accuracy was required.

I don't find it so important when I mark out plastikard because the critical dimensions are often transfered using dividers. The point of a craft knife will lodge nicely in the small indentations made by them and a steel ruler can be pressed up to the blade nice and tightly before the cut commences. I have found this to be the most accurate method for me by far and is one I use a great deal.

As a small bonus, if an indentation is made, for example, in the corner of a window opening, I can feel when the blade pops into it, so I know I have reached the end of the cut.

Perry

Last edited on Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 04:07 pm by Perry

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Planning hints and tips: Using the computer:


Taking photos and sample measurements of subject buildings, or anything else for that matter, is OK up to a point.

One of the many problems that can rear it's ugly head is distortion. Distortion can occur due to the photographer's position in relation to the subject, the focal length of the camera lens, and a host of other variables.

However, if you are reading this, the chances are you have a computer. :doublethumb

If that indeed is the case, a graphics program can work wonders in helping to sort the distortion out.

For example, here is an image of the Co-op building as taken - distorted. The uprights aren't upright and they're certainly not parallel:



Using Adobe Photoshop 5 ('cos that's what I have used for years - I'm sure other programs can do similar things) I did my best to correct the distortion by 'stretching' the image from the corners until the vertical elements that should be parallel looked parallel and the other proportions looked about right too.

This was the result:



Please be aware this is not a perfect method but when used with care can allow dimensions to be more accurately calculated from the photograph than before any of the distortion was removed. Dimensions still need checking to make sure they 'look right' as well as coming out something close to what you expected.

In Adobe Photoshop 5, the distortion tool is called 'Transform' (not the Distort filter - that's something completely different). There are several options relating to this command and I suggest reading the help files relating to them before having a go. Important: work on a copy of the image; not the original! :It's a no no

Well, I did say this wasn't going to be a normal step-by-step how-to-built-it thread. I hope this isn't too far off subject but it is a tool I have used on previous occasions and I felt it worth mentioning.

Perry

 

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I'm looking at this as a future reference thread Perry so anything that you use for this construction is relevant, as are any hints and tips that you pass along. You never know what ideas or methods you pass on may be used for something totally different.

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well Bob, i did not know about that tool in photoshop for a start.
thanks Perry.

:thumbs:lol::lol::lol::cool:

Perry
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After sorting out the dimensions and other little problems, the initial drawing was 'filed'. The redraw was done using the updated information gleaned from the original. Everything fits and adds up now. I label each section with it's width and/or length, then use a calculator to add up the total heights and widths. If I'm out by anything at all - even 0.5 mm, then I have made an error somewhere and the problem areas get measured and checked again.

I was fortunate with this drawing as is came out spot on: 228 mm wide x 136 mm to the peaks of the gable ends. I don't need to worry about the roof at this stage, particularly as this is going to be a low-relief model. I haven't yet decided on the depth (front to back) because I want to take another look at the inset main entrance. I haven't calculated it's depth yet.



One little tip I realised I hadn't mentioned when discussing the calculation of dimensions was the use of lines of perspective. This isn't easy to describe (which is probably why I haven't done it before) but it involves taking an existing image, be it from a book, magazine, photo or whatever source you choose, that was taken from an oblique viewpoint. In other words, not square-on to the building. Using a pen or pencil with a transparent ruler (transparent because it makes it a lot easier to see what you are doing) draw lines connecting points which would be at the same level along the building. For example, on the Co-op pictures, I was able to use the tops of the gables, the tops of the brick piers, the bottoms of the windows and a few others too. All these lines should naturally converge towards what I believe is called the 'vanishing point'. This point will probably be well off your picture, but it doesn't matter.



Now choose something in the image that you know the height of. I chose a double section of a brick pier because I knew this was 3 feet high. This happened to be at the end of the building closest to the camera. By knowing this dimension and comparing it with the converging lines along the picture I can get a pretty good idea of the height of other areas regardless where they fall along the building face. I can then measure what that 3 feet is represented by along the vertical axis by using the distances between the converging lines.

Example: If a converging line is drawn top and bottom of a 3 foot high structure at the end of the picture closest to the camera, then those same lines will represent 3 feet at any vertical line drawn anywhere along those lines. The second and third red lines from the bottom on the above image illustrate this. The pair of blue vertical lines represent identical dimensions. The two green vertical lines do likewise, even though actually measuring them would give different results.

The building shown is very symmetrical, but this technique really comes into it's own when there are odd shapes to be dimensioned.

This diagram may make it simpler to visualise what I'm trying to convey:



It's a simple concept. No doubt we all learned it at school but some of us may have forgotten it. It's certainly easier to do than to descibe. :shock:

See, I warned you this thread was going to be a bit different. :cool wink

Perry


Last edited on Tue Nov 4th, 2008 06:20 pm by Perry

owen69
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oh boy Perry has his cap &gown on,!SO PAY ATTENTION AT THE BACK.

this is a good one very informative

:doublethumb:cheers:cheers:lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Now this one is really interesting and will be very useful to anyone wanting to make an accurate set of plans from such a photo.

In practise, knowing just a few dimensions on a photo and applying Perry's information and anyone will be able to draw an accurate plan from which to work.

Thanks Perry, a really useful tutorial that will have wide ranging practical uses.

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Very understandable Perry, though I had forgotten it! :shock: I got around it by making sure I was square on to any building I was taking a picture of. However in certain areas that is impossible, so it was very nice of you to take the time and figure out how to say it to reawaken those long forgotten memories.

Wayne

phill
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Yet again i am enthrolled in this thread, very interesting Perry thanks.

Phill

Perry
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Here is another of my "stating the bloomin' obvious" tips;

This is a technique I try to use as often as possible when scratchbuilding.

If you have a number of apertures, e.g. windows, to cut out, try to start all the cuts that align with each other at one time. In other words, if you have a couple of windows that are identical in size and at the same level on the model, don't cut one window out completely before starting on the second. Make all the cuts on one level before moving the steel straightedge to the next level.

This diagram should explain it better:



The reason for doing this is that cuts that should be level with each other actually will be. It can be difficult to get precise alignment by eye if cutting them out individually and it's annoying when one window out a row of 4 or 5 ends up a millimetre higher or lower than the others. It can look very obvious. Don't ask me how I know this..........:???::oops:

Perry

 

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The plan was transfered to a sheet of .040" (1mm) thick plain white Plastikard. A few minutes work with a new blade in the knife and everything was cut out.



This image shows the wall in it's raw state. None of the cuts have been tidied up yet. One or two places may need a touch with a small file or sandpaper to remove any small burrs.

Construction of the fancy brick piers will be next, and I have a cunning plan to simplify their construction. I'll let you know if it works..... :cool wink

Perry

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owen69 wrote: oh boy Perry has his cap &gown on,!SO PAY ATTENTION AT THE BACK.

this is a good one very informative

:doublethumb:cheers:cheers:lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:


Oh dear. I hope that's not how this is coming across. I am concerned that some of my posts may appear that I am 'preaching to the masses'. It certainly isn't how it's intended - it's simply that I'm not a very good writer. :oops: I'm hoping that I've read your 'smilies' correctly and that you are happy with it, but I have a nagging doubt that some people may be getting the opinion that I consider myself to be 'The Expert' on these matters. Nothing is farther from the truth. I'm just trying to pass on some of the things that I have learned - some by bitter experience. :???:

Please don't hesitate to tell me if I'm getting too School Master-ish and I'll try to tone it down. The last thing I want is to put people off because then I would be wasting their time and my own. :cheers

Perry

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Perry, don't you dare change your method of passing on info, please.


In your words will be more than adequate. You may consider that you are not an expert - OK, I will accept your word  on that but your decsriptions/techniques  are helpful to the rest of us.

Perry
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Thanks, Ron.

The brick piers at the front of the building have a protruding course every five courses.

I cut a piece of brick embossed plastikard to the correct height for the piers and to an ample length to allow the piers to be covered at the fronts and sides.

The photos of the prototype show that there are 10 of the protruding courses on each pier.

I didn't fancy trying to cut and fix 30 pieces of string course to each pier (10 on the front and another 10 on each of the two sides) as getting the length right for each one would be hard enough without trying to get them all aligned.

I therefore came up with a plan. I cut 10 single course strips of embossed brick plastikard and stuck them in place with solvent, leaving 5 courses between each strip - as per the prototype.

Here is the work in progress:



When they are all fixed in place and the solvent is throughly dry, I can cut consecutive vertical strips the correct widths for the fronts and sides of the piers. That way the string courses must match up.

The only slight problem I can forsee at present is that the corners of the protruding courses may have a slight gap when they are glued up. I may be able to get round this by using some tube cement or filler if the gaps are too big for paint to conceal, but with care it may not be needed.

Perry

Last edited on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 11:37 am by Perry

owen69
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Perry ,please ignore my warped sense of humour.
you do not come across school-masterish at all, its just i like
the new approach,more informative than just a pic, and tells us not only
how, but why and what for etc. :Happy

( classic example of the wrong words at the wrong time ! )
sorry. :thud:oops::lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Perry

Don't stop.

i am learning a lot with this one. i have always gone with the 7 P's

PRIOR PLANNING and PREPARATION PREVENTS a P*%S POOR PERFORMANCE.

I have lacked the knowledge of the preparation stage when working on my layout. it something that nobody really goes into before now:thumbs

Perry
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:doublethumb

The ten single-course stringers have all been fixed in place. I checked the alignment with a steel straightedge as I completed each one, but using the embossed bricks as a guide to laying them, none of them was far out.



I've placed the completed unit face-down on the workbench and put a weight on the back. This is to minimise curling as the solvent dries. Although I kept the solvent to a minimum, the material is only .020" (0.5mm) thick and tends to curl if no preventative measures are taken.

Perry

Wayne Williams
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Perry,You are doing just fine in explaining how you are doing things, PLEASE don't change a thing! I am reading each one intently.

Wayne

Marty
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As we say down under...
"She's right mate!"
I'm watching and learning, keep it coming.
cheers

Perry
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The two main windows are a little unusual in their design in that they are bay windows that don't protrude! The back of the bay is set back so that the front-most window panel is still in alignment with the plain windows. This doesn't show up very well on the photos I have, but I have studied the prototype with the Mk.1 eyeball and think I can see how to build them.

I have cut some small pieces of Plastikard and cemented them in place as return walls for the brick piers that abutt the bay windows. I have begun cladding them using the fancy brickwork strip I built yesterday.

I used tube cement because it allows me to slide the pieces into place, giving easier adjustment than solvent which grabs almost instantly.



I have removed the section of wall at the base of the two bay windows. This was found to be necessary to allow the bays to be fitted correctly. The one beneath the main entrance door will be either removed or reduced in height when I come to work on that area, as will the one below the smaller entrance doors at the right-hand end of the buildng.

A few minutes work and the rest of brick pier cladding is in place:



The end ones overlap a little to allow for the return walls to be fitted later.

Perry


Last edited on Thu Nov 6th, 2008 05:56 pm by Perry

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Looking very nice Perry, I'm waiting to see what you are going to do with the corners for the cladding on the brick piers. You don't have to answer, I'll just keep watching!

Wayne

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i will ask perry

this has always baffled me. i have some milliput, could this be used as a filla? how do you do yours?

Perry
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I haven't decided how - or if - I'm going to fettle the corners yet. I'll wait to see what the overall effect is when I've done some more construction. I may use some tiny pieces of filler where the string courses meet.

I have some of the fancy brickwork to spare so I might try making a dummy corner to test different techniques or materials on.

You certainly can use milliput as a filler, but it can be a bit time consuming and wasteful due to the mixing needed.

For general filling work I prefer MMD White Putty which is available in many model shops. I can take tiny quantities straight from the tube if that's all I need. It dries very quickly (almost too quickly sometimes if the room is very warm) but can be sanded, cut or filed to shape very easily. I apply it with the tip of a miniature screwdriver blade. If you have deep areas to fill, do it in several thin layers rather than all at once. It will set more quickly.

Perry

Last edited on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 08:34 pm by Perry

phill
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Perry please dont stop your methods on how and what etc, i find it very interesting and i can even follow it as well, yep i can :thumbs.

This may sound daft but when you make these buildings, the CO-OP included do you measure the part of the layout it is going to be situated in or do you make it fit , do i make sense :roll:, when its built. Only asking really as some of your buildings are fairly big.

Phill

Last edited on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 07:27 pm by phill

Perry
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phill wrote: ......................when you make these buildings, the CO-OP included do you measure the part of the layout it is going to be situated in or do you make it fit , do i make sense :roll:, when its built. Only asking really as some of your buildings are fairly big.

Phill


It's a fair cop, Phill; you've sussed me out. By building BIG buildings I don't have to build so many! :mutley

Seriously though, I try to find buildings that I like that will fit in the space I have available. The changes from the prototype that I do make usually involve buildings being on level ground rather than on a slope or some changes where they adjoin other buildings. The Co-op is a good example. The prototype is on a slight hill and I don't want to include the building that it is joined to on it's eastern side so it will stand alone. A concession to restricted space makes it imperative that I build this as a low-relief model. Apart from that, the back of this building adjoins others and is pretty ugly anyway.

The decision to build the Great Eastern Goods Shed was only taken after rough scale plans and a card mock-up proved that I could fit it in to the desired site.

So I suppose the quick answer to your question is both yes and no, but not necessarily in that order. :cool wink

Perry

Last edited on Sat Nov 8th, 2008 08:33 pm by Perry

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Perry, how do you cut out so cleanly the curved top part of the two large windows?
Ken.

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I use a 'Compass Cutter' to start the cut, then if I'm using thick Plastikard - as I was in this case - I deepen the cut a little with the point of a craft knife. With care, the curve then just snaps out - just like any other plastikard cut.

Have a look at this thread for more details of the Compass Cutter:

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=345&forum_id=19

It takes a little bit of practice - but not too much! :cool wink One little tip is to not go over the cut too many times with the Cutter; it can tend to wander off line. Once you've done a light cut or two with it, use a knife to deepen the cut. It's certainly the easiest way I've yet found of cutting accurate full circles or part thereof.

Perry

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Above the windows are some small 'canopies' with decorative wooden slats beneath them.

I cut some 1mm thick Plastikard into 4.5mm strips and laminated a 1mm x 3.2mm strip onto them. The photos of the prototype showed that there were 9 small slats fitted in to roughly 6 feet of width. I cut some 3.2 mm pieces of 1mm x 1mm strip and fixed them in place as evenly spaced as I could. The end ones are slightly inset and the position of the middle one can be measured, so fitting the rest was a doddle.

Here is the prototype with the fabricated unit inset.



This isn't fixed in place yet so may not be perfectly aligned.

One more 6 ft 0" and three 10 ft 6" units to go! They're a bit fiddly but I think they are worthwhile modelling as accurately as possible as they contribute to the appearance and character of the building.

Perry

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They're a bit fiddly

Now that is an understatement if I saw one Perry. This thread is very interesting to say the least.

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 This is going to turn out to be another first class building:doublethumb:doublethumb

 If only we were all as good:hmm:hmm

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You know no matter how intricate the parts of the build you do Perry, you always make it look easy. I know you say its just practice, i for one think that you have either got the gift for this sort of thing or not. You deffo have the gift.

As some one said another master build, will it be the best yet, somehow i think it will, you have uped your game by a long way.

Phill

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Thanks, Phill, those are kind words indeed.

Those 1mm x 1mm x 3.2mm parts are fun to deal with; when I try to hold them in place to apply the solvent brush, the little blighters keep disappearing up behind my fingernails! At least I know where to look when I lose one.:roll:

Still, I've fitted 18 and only have another 51 to do. :doublethumb

Perry

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Perry wrote: Still, I've fitted 18 and only have another 51 to do. :doublethumb

Perry


Is that all, huh be down in 5 minutes i reckon :mutley.

Just a thought get RJR round mate he have it done in a night and thats the whole build :thumbs:mutley:mutley

Phill

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With that number of identical pieces to cut, I rigged up a temporary cutting jig on my little guillotine (shown elsewhere on this forum) and chopped the remaining 51 pieces to length in less than two minutes. :Happy

Perry

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Wow Perry, 1mm? When I try and cut pieces that size they just want to curl up and disappear!

I may have to go looking for a picture of you on here, you would have to be 3 feet tall, tiny fingers, and eyes like eagles to handle those. :mutley:mutley:mutley

Wayne

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Three final laminates have been fabricated and the 51 small struts (3 x 17) cemented in place.



This took very little time as can be seen from the time between my posts. Please don't think I'm showing off; all I'm trying to show is that scratchbuilding in Plastikard (and probably other materials too) is a quick process.

Comments have been made about me having a 'special gift' and my so-called 'expertise'. I don't. The only way you can expect to become proficient at just about anything - scratchbuilding included - is to keep trying. Each time you do, results are better and are attained more quickly. GET YOUR PLASTIKARD OUT AND HAVE A GO!!!! :doublethumb Just DO IT and you will amaze yourself as to how easy it really is.

...and here's the finished installation of all five units:



Perry

Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 08:19 pm by Perry

Perry
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Wayne Williams wrote: Wow Perry, 1mm? When I try and cut pieces that size they just want to curl up and disappear!

I may have to go looking for a picture of you on here, you would have to be 3 feet tall, tiny fingers, and eyes like eagles to handle those. :mutley:mutley:mutley

Wayne


I'm six feet tall and weigh in the region of 14 stones (196 lbs), have hands like shovels and wear spectacles for reading. :thud

 I use tweezers (forceps) to handle small parts, or pick them up on the point of a sharp craft knife. ;-)

The 1mm x 1mm section is the size provided by 'Evergreen' in their styrene strip range. All I have do is cut it into 3.2mm lengths. :thumbs

Perry

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I'm six feet tall and weigh in the region of 14 stones (196 lbs), have hands like shovels

i did say sorry mate honest,

:pedal:pedal;-):lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Perry, that is really looking good. I know how frustrating it can be to get all those pieces aligned up to look the part. You can tell that you are correct, all it takes is practice. I can't wait to get started again at scratchbuilding, it's just that I'm finally getting something done on the layout to put the scratch built items in!

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote: .......................I'm finally getting something done on the layout to put the scratch built items in!

Wayne


Lucky man! :doublethumb

Everytime I make a little progress on the layout that damn scratchbuilding bug bites me again.:thud:lol::lol::lol:

Perry

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Most of the structural detailing has been added to the upper half of the main wall. The top parts of the piers have been added, along with the window sills and arches.



I've left adding the plinths until later because I need to make and fit the doorways and bay windows. The windows are going to have to be put on hold until nearer the weekend because I don't have any suitable glazing material in stock. :oops: Everything I have is too thick or too thin. :???: I should be able to get some on Thursday afternoon.

Perry

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Your attention to detail and precise measurement and cutting continues to impress me Perry.
Try as I might to emulate your level of accuracy I tend to take short cuts to speed up the process hoping that too the Mark 1 eye any ... ah... discrepencies won't show up in N scale.
Unfortunately the macro function on the camera gives the game away.
Did you use a jig or measurements for the arch keystones? They look just right.
cheers

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Marty wrote: Your attention to detail and precise measurement and cutting continues to impress me Perry.
Try as I might to emulate your level of accuracy I tend to take short cuts to speed up the process hoping that too the Mark 1 eye any ... ah... discrepencies won't show up in N scale.
Unfortunately the macro function on the camera gives the game away.
Did you use a jig or measurements for the arch keystones? They look just right.
cheers


Taking shortcuts is something I am reluctant to do. If I know something has been 'fudged' it never looks right to me. :???:

The arch keystones were cut and placed using the Mk.1 eyeball method, but having said that, I made three sets of keystones before I was satisfied with the result.

Perry

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Two plain side walls 45 mm wide have been fabricated from .040" plastikard and cemented in place, checking all was square.

Although the protoype has some small windows in the left-hand end, I decided not to include these as they will make the corner of the buidling too 'see-though'. I may decide to put some lights in this model and don't want light spilling out in that direction.

A 'floor' was fitted inside the structure to be level with the canopies. I cut this from .040" plastikard but as it is about 225mm long and only 45mm deep it was still very flexible. I cut another strip of .040" material about 8mm wide and glued it along one edge of the floor and perpendicular to it, thus giving me a nice strong right-angled section. Apart from stopping the floor bending, the upright piece also provided a good gluing area with which to attach it to the inside of the front wall.

The whole structure is now freestanding:



Perry

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Perry, now that that floor is in place, will you be addressing any drilling for interior lighting now or later? Forgive me if I missed anything on the thread but I can't recall your intentions :roll::roll:

Last edited on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 09:45 pm by rector

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Perry, I'm still watching and enjoying (as ever) your build.

There's one thing, however, that I must know   ...   where did you get that pink plasticard :question:question  :lol::lol::lol:

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Perry wrote: The arch keystones were cut and placed using the Mk.1 eyeball method, but having said that, I made three sets of keystones before I was satisfied with the result.

Hmmm, I'm going to have to learn to chuck out the ones that don't look quite right.

cheers

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rector wrote: Perry, now that that floor is in place, will you be addressing any drilling for interior lighting now or later? Forgive me if I missed anything on the thread but I can't recall your intentions :roll::roll:

I will make a final decision on lighting when the build is more or less finished, Tim.

I don't envisage having to do much drilling because I can make some little light fittings up from scraps of plastikard and fix them where I want them at a late stage of the build. I will then have a chance to move the lights around to find the best effect before I fix them in place.

Perry

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Gwent Rail wrote: Perry, I'm still watching and enjoying (as ever) your build.

There's one thing, however, that I must know   ...   where did you get that pink plasticard :question:question  :lol::lol::lol:


It's special, Jeff. It goes with the decor of the room where I do my modelling, and of course it compliments my extensive wardrobe. :cool wink

The real reason it looks pink is because I'm a rubbish photographer who can't be bothered to faff around with the White Balance settings on my camera, of course.:oops: :roll:

Looks kinda nice though, don't you think?  :mutley:mutley:mutley

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Marty wrote: Perry wrote: The arch keystones were cut and placed using the Mk.1 eyeball method, but having said that, I made three sets of keystones before I was satisfied with the result.

Hmmm, I'm going to have to learn to chuck out the ones that don't look quite right.

cheers


It does pay off, Marty.

I think I've mentioned before in previous scratchbuilding threads that I try never to use parts that are 'not quite right'. It usually only takes a few moments to re-make a part and the waste is negligible as the duff one goes in the bits box to be 'recycled'.

Perry

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Perry wrote: Gwent Rail wrote: Perry, I'm still watching and enjoying (as ever) your build.

There's one thing, however, that I must know   ...   where did you get that pink plasticard :question:question  :lol::lol::lol:


It's special, Jeff. It goes with the decor of the room where I do my modelling, and of course it compliments my extensive wardrobe. :cool wink

The real reason it looks pink is because I'm a rubbish photographer who can't be bothered to faff around with the White Balance settings on my camera, of course.:oops: :roll:

Looks kinda nice though, don't you think?  :mutley:mutley:mutley

Perry


Well i quickly had a look in members gallery and i must say Perry, i have to wonder about this excuse of the camera setting sweety :mutley:mutley

Phill

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I'll let that go this time, Phill. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I took SWMBO to the Hospital today for a check up after her operation and they are happy with her. :Happy:Happy

More importantly, :shock: I got to the model shop for some supplies, so now I have no excuse for not getting on with the Co-op build.

Oh, hang on a minute, yes I do; they didn't have any pink Plastikard!!!!! :mutley:mutley

They did, however, have some .040" clear plastic sheet, just what I was after for the shop windows. I got a piece about A3 size for the princely sum of £2.99p. I wanted something reasonably rigid for the bay windows but some 2mm material I had in stock was way too heavy. This new stuff should be just the job.

Perry

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Now when Perry wrote this, I'll let that go this time, Phill. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:, i just can not for the life of me think what sweety is on about :mutley:mutley, sorry no more said ok swee i mean Perry :twisted::mutley:mutley


 

Great news Perry about SWMBO :doublethumb, load of your mind i expect and for your other half.

So can we get on with the CO-OP now, i mean its hard not having anything done for so long, i mean you spoilt us this last few weeks mate, so we expect it all the time. No hurry, shall we say 5 mins for some more updates. :mutley:mutley

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Perry wrote: Gwent Rail wrote: There's one thing, however, that I must know   ...   where did you get that pink plasticard :question:question  :lol::lol::lol:


It's special, Jeff. It goes with the decor of the room where I do my modelling, and of course it compliments my extensive wardrobe. :cool wink

 Looks kinda nice though, don't you think?  :mutley:mutley:mutley

Perry


:shock::shock::shock::shock: It's all this scratchbuilding   ...   he's beginning to "bat for the other side" :eek::eek::eek: Soon it will be threads on cross-stiching and embroidery :exclam:exclam :It's a no no:It's a no no

"Looks kinda nice though" indeed  :brickwall:brickwall:brickwall :mutley

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You see Perry it was Jeff who started this and i just tagged along :mutley, mindue he has a point thou :shock:. Still could be even worse, he may start doing GWR :thud

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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Enough, gentlemen, enough! :lol: I know when I'm beaten.

I've got a few family-type commitments over the next couple of days, but hopefully I'll find time to get some modelling stuff done very soon.

And by the way, SWMBO is talking about making more space in the room that houses my layout. I wonder if I could perhaps extend the length of run...........:Happy

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Perry wrote: And by the way, SWMBO is talking about making more space in the room that houses my layout. I wonder if I could perhaps extend the length of run...........:Happy

Perry


:Happy:Happy:HappyMore scratchbuilding is on its way. Tell SWMBO is wonderfull Perry.

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I am quite amazed at how easily a Super Moderator can take a thread off-topic (something I would never do) and look forward to much more serious scratch-building. :twisted: ;-);-);-);-);-);-);-)

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I am currently experimenting with a new (for me) method of producing window frames.

I am the proud owner of some vintage 'bow pens' that formed part of an age-old technical drawing set - although similar items are still available, I believe. (I think Noah used a similar set when he designed the Ark. :shock: :roll:;-))

I loaded some slightly thinned 'Vallejo' off-white acrylic paint into a bow-pen using an eye-dropper. I quickly discovered that putting too much paint into the pen was a mistake; it works better with just a small amount at a time. I ran the pen along the edge of a plastic ruler turned 'upside down' and gradually adjusted the width of the pen tip by means of the little thumbscrew. A smaller gap was better. I used some old offcuts of 2mm clear plastic to draw on, and feel that with a few minutes more practice and careful adjustment of paint thickness - which seems fairly critical, I will be able to draw any style or colour of window frames I desire. (It didn't take me long to realise that my computer printer can't do white ink!!) The bow pen tip can even be mounted in a pair of compass legs to enable me to draw arches.

The following picture shows some lines that I drew within 5 minutes of starting using this method. It can only get better with practice, but i think it shows great promise.




This type of tool was (is?) commonly used by really clever folk who paint and line their own locos - which is where I nicked the idea from. :oops:

The beauty of using acrylic paint is that if it all goes wrong, it can be washed off before it dries with plain water. :thumbs


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that is one very good post,thanks just might solve a problem or three
i had heard of such a pen but never knew what it was used for.

:doublethumb;-):lol::lol::lol:

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rector wrote: I am quite amazed at how easily a Super Moderator can take a thread off-topic (something I would never do) and look forward to much more serious scratch-building. :twisted: ;-);-);-);-);-);-);-)

:hmm Well then, I'll bow to the judgement of such a sage, apologise for my misdemeanours :oops::oops::oops: and do the appropriate penance.

So expect updates on both the Belle View Steelworks and the workbench thread over the next few days (or by Monday at least) :exclam:exclam  

:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb

 

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Work has restarted on the Co-op building. Last evening I added the brick cladding to the end walls and the corner piers. I still have to add the decorative string courses to the tops of these.

After that I have to decide whether to build the bay window units or add the plinths next as fitting one may affect the other. I need to do a little planning first to make sure I do the jobs in the correct order. Making little mock-ups in scrap material will probably help.

More photos to follow soon. :thumbs

Perry

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There's not much alternative to modelling today!



.......so I got on with the Co-op build.

Three pieces of scrap 6mm MDF were cut to size and glued in place with tube polystyrene cement to form the floors.



Apart from adding some weight and stability to the model, these pieces of MDF also provide something to hold a couple of screws to secure the building to the sub-baseboard. Screwing rather than glueing the buildings in place minimises damage if they ever have to be removed.

Perry


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Perry

i presume that is your house and it is snowing where you live Jeez that looks cold

do you usually get snow at this time of year?

Your are right modelling is the only thing to do today

cheers Brian

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This is my neighbour's house - it was too cold to go outside to photograph mine! I just poked my camera out of the window. ;-)

Snow is quite unusual this early in the winter, but it's the second lot we've had. It actually snowed here in October this year.

Perry

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Amazing Glazing!

I recently purchased some 1mm thick clear plastic sheet from a local model shop for use as glazing material.

It is called 'NUDEC PETg'. The makers appear to be a Spanish firm who have a website at http://www.nudec.es. (...and before anyone asks, this is a genuine clear plastic product and has nothing at all to do with nudes!)

If the Company is provided with an email address via their website they allow the downloading of a .pdf data sheet for this material. This gives all the information one could possibly need to use this material for all sorts of purposes; moulding, use of adhesives, etc., etc.

It's pretty amazing stuff. It seemed very stiff and brittle when being cut but can be bent cold, by hand, to pretty tight radii without cracking, snapping off or going 'white' along the bend line like some other clear plastics do.

This stuff is pretty amazing. I'm currently experimenting with making the bay windows in one piece, instead of needing three panels for each.

It should be good for making those big glazed canopies seen at some stations, for example.

I haven't tried to find out who else stocks this stuff in the UK, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find.

(I'll copy this information to the appropriate 'materials' section of this forum.)

Perry

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The two bay windows have been cut and cold bent from 1mm Nudec clear plastic to represent the unusual 'set back' aspect of the bays.

The middle window on this image, beneath the 'Chubby Panda' lettering, is one of the prototype bays.







This image shows the bays either side of what will become the main entrance.

After fixing in place, the window framing will be added.

Perry


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Very effective and the pen and bendy plastic are great ideas, for me windows are the hardest thing to scratchbuild.

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It looks like that stuff performed quite well Perry. It looks like a mirror instead of a window in the picture. You may have to put a light inside to solve that, or was this picture taken at night?

Wayne

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It's an optical illusion, Wayne. The objects seen through the window actually are behind the model - not reflections. I was photographing them under less than ideal lighting conditions and, as I've said before, I'm a rubbish photographer. The model was photographed at night with just a desk lamp to illuminate it. In actual fact, the clarity of this plastic is superb - looking at it on the bench beside me now, unless the angle of the light is right I can barely see it at all!

Window frames, interiors and possibly lighting has all yet to be sorted out. :thumbs

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I have decided to make the main framing for the windows from microstrip.

Here is the work in progress on one of the bay windows:



Perry

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Looks good Perry, Imho the bow pen idea for glazing bars in this case ,would have turned out too fine. Maybe for a smaller window another time? looking forward to more of the same .:lol:

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Perry that glazing has to be the best i have seen,it looks so real.     
 very good material  indeed .

:doublethumb:lol::lol::lol::cool:
    

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sparky wrote: Looks good Perry, Imho the bow pen idea for glazing bars in this case ,would have turned out too fine. Maybe for a smaller window another time? looking forward to more of the same .:lol:

Thanks, Sparky.

I totally agree. The bow pen method is just another weapon in the armoury to be used when the situation requires it.

Perry

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owen69 wrote: Perry that glazing has to be the best i have seen,it looks so real.     
 very good material  indeed .

:doublethumb:lol::lol::lol::cool:
    



I like it a lot, Owen. I still need to try it out in different ways to find the best methods though. It's a bit tricky to glue but it's probably just a case of finding the best adhesive. It's very easy to cut with a razor saw, but I don't recommend scoring with a knife then snapping as per cutting plastikard. It's doesn't work too well.

Perry

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The latticework framing at the top of the windows posed a little bit of a problem, but I finally decided to make it from 0.020" x 0.030" microstrip.

I measured the lengths of the six pieces required for each pane using a small pair of spring dividers, then transfered the measurement to the microstrip.

I cut two pieces to go corner to corner, then four more to make the diamond shape that completes the pattern.



It's quicker to do than to describe.

Once it has had a coat of paint it should look OK. :thumbs

Perry

Last edited on Sat Nov 29th, 2008 02:55 pm by Perry

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It wouldn't dare look anything but OK Perry. :lol:

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Another part done very well and made to look easy. Looking good Perry :thumbs

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Thanks guys. :thumbs

I'm surprised how quick and easy this has turned out to be. As the lattices are such a distinctive feature of the shop front, I couldn't see how I could do anything other than build them a piece at a time.

So here is the first bay window completed:



Four uprights, three horizontal pieces and eighteen lattice strips and the job's done. The horizontal pieces were carefully bent to conform to the shape of the window - much easier than trying to match up lots of separate pieces.

Perry

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 Perry wrote

                     "Four uprights, three horizontal pieces and eighteen lattice strips and the job's done."

You must have the patience of a saint mate. An excellent build (again):doublethumb

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Perry, thanks :thumbs that is impressive -  

 now lets see you do that in the new T scale  :mutley

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Kevr wrote:  

 Perry wrote

                     "Four uprights, three horizontal pieces and eighteen lattice strips and the job's done."

You must have the patience of a saint mate. An excellent build (again):doublethumb


Not really, Kev.

Because microstrip is pre-cut, only takes a millisecond or two to trim to length and fixes in place almost instantly with solvent, doing one of these lattice panels doesn't take very long at all.

It's repetitive, certainly, but the process can be interspersed with other tasks whilst the solvent dries.

I've made the three panels on this bay. Now I only have another fifteen panels to make. :brickwall Then I can start on the window frames on the first floor. :doublethumb

Perry

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Sol wrote: ................ now lets see you do that in the new T scale  :mutley





Ouch!

"Get thee behind me, Santa!"  (and that's not a spelling mistake, just a seasonal rearrangement of the letters.) :mutley:mutley:mutley


After a wonderful time Christmas shopping in the city this afternoon :shock: it was nice to be able to spend a few minutes doing some more 'lattice work'.

Both the bay windows are now complete:



Looking at the photo above, the transparent plastic doesn't show up at all, but I can assure you it's there!

The plain window at the left-hand end shouldn't take too long to frame up and the other end had a pair of doors with lattice above them in the period in which I am situating this model.

That only leaves the main entrance which is going to need some planning because it is a fairly complex construction with lots of latticing.



It will have to be built in sections, then joined together as a sub-assembly before fitting it to the model. I want another picture or two of the entrance area before I start, so a trip there tomorrow looks to be on the cards.


Perry



Last edited on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 04:42 pm by Perry

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There is now a post under the 'Materials & Tools' section giving details of where I got my NUDEC PETg plastic sheet from.

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I didn't get the extra photographs of the main entrance done today as I had planned as I was far too busy with other things....and it didn't really bother getting light here today anyway! :???:

I managed to stay out of most of the rain and cold though and spent a few minutes doing some more 'lattice work'. Very therapeutic! I also knocked up the side door assembly out of a few scrap off-cuts of plastikard. This is only propped in place in the photo so it isn't properly aligned - or finished - yet.



I'm going to make a card mock-up of the main entrance to make sure everything fits before I start chopping plastikard up. It will only take a few minutes and could save a lot of time and grief later. :thumbs

I am going to employ a little 'modeller's licence' and build some steps up to both lots of doors. There are small steps on the prototype but I want them a little bit bigger. The depth of the plinths also has to accomodate the thickness of the paving that will be added eventually.

Perry

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With regard to the larger steps you intend to build, Perry: The modern photos of the prototype show what looks like a tiled ramp. I can only assume that this is a recent innovation, and that your older photos show the original form.

By the way - great window lattice work :cool::cool::cool:

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Nice building.  Should look great when finished.

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Tim

The tiled floor is probably original i have a tiled entrance hall which was laid in1896

and i have seen similar ones to Perrys picture usually about 1 inch square tiles laid at either square or 45 degree positions.

Im sure our Perry will be laying each individual tile :lol::lol:

cheers Brian

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The Co-op first came to town in 1906. The original building was small with pull-down shop blinds. During 1915 it was comandeered by the military and it burnt down in 1916.

The new building opened in 1921.

The Co-op closed in 1983 and the building has had a few alterations since then.

There now; not only do you get a scratchbuild, but you get a history lecture thrown in for free! :cool wink

Perry

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henryparrot wrote: Tim

The tiled floor is probably original i have a tiled entrance hall which was laid in1896

and i have seen similar ones to Perrys picture usually about 1 inch square tiles laid at either square or 45 degree positions.

Im sure our Perry will be laying each individual tile :lol::lol:

cheers Brian


:thud:thud:thud

1 inch square. Hmmmm. That makes each scale tile about 0.3mm square. :shock: 

Er - no, I don't think so. I don't work to less than 0.5mm accuracy - sorry. :It's a no no :lol::lol:

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rector wrote: ............The modern photos of the prototype show what looks like a tiled ramp....

All to do with the current legislation regarding access for people with disabilities, I guess.

Perry

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It looks as though the way to build the main entrance is to do it in (at least) two parts, otherwise it's going to be almost impossible to do the interior lattice work.

I made a mock up out of two pieces of card, just to check that everything will fit:



Here they are stood roughly in position:



It looks like the place has been boarded up!

To get sharp angles where the front windows turn inwards at 90 degrees, I may cut the glazing material and re-join it, rather than just bend it.

Perry

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I think you are correct about the way to build the entrance, Perry. Build it as a complete sub-assembly and fix it in afterwards. That would be my choice anyway.

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Gwent Rail wrote: I think you are correct about the way to build the entrance, Perry. Build it as a complete sub-assembly and fix it in afterwards. That would be my choice anyway.

I think most of the painting will have to be completed before it can be assembled and fixed in place too, Jeff.

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Having finalised 'The Plan' after messing around with the card mock-ups, I set about fabricating the glazed part of the main entrance. I decided that the easiest way was to make it in four parts; two front windows and two angled sections that line the entrance. The angled sections at the rear will have lattice at the top with a door beneath on each side. There is a small gap at the rear between the two sections that will be blanked off with plain plastikard. This will represent the very narrow piece of interior wall between the doors.

I cut two pieces of Nudec Petg, 11mm x 41mm, with a coarse-bladed razor saw. These form the front windows. Two more pieces were cut measuring 30mm x 41 mm. These were marked with a line 10mm from one end. This was the position of the bend line. I placed a steel ruler along the bend line and gently 'persuaded' the plastic into the shape I wanted with my fingers.

To make up the sub-assemblies I cemented a piece of 1mm x 1mm microstrip inside the angles, joining the front windows to the wings. Then I overlaid the outside edges of the corner with some 2mm x 0.4mm microstrip.



This took less time to do than it took to describe.

I dry-fitted the sub-assemblies to check the fit and all looks OK so far.



They don't really show up too well under this lighting, but I hope this picture gives the general impression. I'll leave them to set hard now before I start the rest of the framing and lattice work.

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Many years ago I was taught to build structures by some master craftsmen. Exhibitions were less numerous but normally big events where all the doyens of the model railway world were in attendance. It was at one of these events that I first got shown some practical scratchbuilding and was hooked.

Since those days, I have more recently spoken (at some shows) to the likes of Chris Ellis and Ken Ball and they maintain that the easiest way is to do everything possible "in the flat" before assembly of the walls. That includes painting, although some final touch-up work is always going to be necessary after glueing the component parts together. 

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 That's looking really good Perry, is there ANY details that you have missed out. :hmm

Excellent quality, a real craftsman :doublethumb:doublethumb

 

Last edited on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 04:26 pm by Kevr

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excelent Perry, boy have i learned a lot from this build,

:cheers:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Kevr wrote:  

 That's looking really good Perry, is there ANY details that you have missed out. :hmm

Excellent quality, a real craftsman :doublethumb:doublethumb

 


:lol::lol::lol:

I haven't fitted the door handle yet......:cool wink :mutley

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I've got to tell you that although I fancy myself as a more than adequate scratch-builder, Perry is up there with the best. His work would stand up against most of the "big names" out there. Just exquisite craftsmanship :exclam:exclam

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Gwent Rail wrote: Many years ago I was taught to build structures by some master craftsmen...............


There's lucky then! :pathead:pathead:cool wink

I had to learn the hard way - but that was when I lived in't paper bag in't middle o't road. :thud:lol::lol:

You embarrass me with your kind words, Jeff. :oops::oops::cheers Thank you.

I initially took a few basic ideas from books and magazines and then developed my own way of doing things. They're not necessarily the right ways, but they are my ways. I've made mistakes and learned lots from them. My skills, such as they are, are still improving slowly. I have a lot to learn, but if I found all scratchbuilding easy, I think it might lose some of its interest. One thing is certain though; stuff doesn't get built just by thinking about it. So, c'mon, get out your plastikard/card/wood or whatever you choose to use and have a go! :Happy 

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Perry wrote:  then developed my own way of doing things. They're not necessarily the right ways, but they are my ways.

If the experts to which Jeff refers hadn't done exactly that then there would have been no progress and for that matter no experts either.

This has been an education Perry - thank you.

Les

 

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Work has started with framing up the windows that form main entrance. I used 1mm x 1mm microstrip to form the main frames.



The next images shows the two sub-assemblies propped in roughly the right places, but as you can see they are not properly upright yet.



I'm a little concerned about how to represent the two inner doors. The current photos of the prototype doors show them as predominantly glass with quite thin framing. Whilst building them like this isn't a problem, I have a sneaking suspicion that the previous old doors - from when the building was first built, were of a more 'solid' construction. Unfortunately, the old reference photos I am working from were taken from such an angle as to make it impossible to see the doors. The only good thing about that is that few people will know if they are right or wrong. The thin-framed types would be more work to fabricate but I wouldn't let that put me off if I thought that was the right way to go. Maybe I'll do a test run to see which looks best.

Perry

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Another 'Secret Weapon'! :twisted:

I don't think I have mentioned before a technique I find useful for preparing small parts during a scratchbuild.

Even though I can measure to an accuracy of about 0.5mm by eye, some measurements can be tricky to get because of the shape or orientation of the part required.

I find a small pair of spring calipers invaluable for taking a dimension straight from a drawing or plan, or in this case, directly from the model itself.

Here they are in use measuring the length required for a piece of lattice work:




By turning the small knurled wheel half-way up the side of the calipers the points can be adjusted very finely to obtain the exact measurement required. This can then be transfered directly to the material to be cut.

Perry

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Perry

as always a grand job, i would go for the more solid doors so you know that is a dorr:shock: what i mean is in the doorway you have a lot of glass so a solid door would make the work you have put in stand out.

Ref. the callipers, i have just got a set from squirres as i struggled measuring accurate widths on the model using a steel ruler.

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Apart from the doors, windowsills and rear joining wall, which will be added later, the fabrication of the two main entrance sub-assemblies are pretty much finished.

They currently total 64 separate pieces, including the glazing. Each sub-assembly measures about 3.5 cms x 4 cms.



I have to admit I am pleased with the result so far. I had my doubts about the chosen method when I started, but it's all turned out fairly well. I think the lattice work looks reasonably authentic and, as it is a major feature of the prototype, needed representing as accurately as my limited skills would allow on the model.

Again, in the following photo, the sub-assemblies are only propped in place and not fixed:



I'm now going to let the sub-assemblies set really hard before I do any more work on them. I'm going to take a little 'looking and thinking' time before I continue with the next steps. There's no point in rushing things.

Perry

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That's turning into an impressive frontage, Perry. Well worth the effort with so many small pieces. look foward to seeing the completed fron, but don't hurry it, well worth the wait for things to set hard.

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While everything else was drying, I spent a few minutes on the main gable windows.

This is the prototype:



I cut two pieces of Nudec Petg to size and fixed them behind the window openings with Araldite adhesive. This stuff 'goes off' in a few minutes and is then strong enough to work with if you do it carefully. It continues to strengthen over several hours.

Once the Araldite was set, I used some 1mm square microstrip to form the outer frame and the main cross members. The pairs of main verticals were fabricated from 0.4mm x 2mm strip and then the smaller verticals added from 0.5mm 0.75mm strip.

The whole lot now needs to set hard before the thin horizontal glazing bars are added. This is how it looks so far:



There seems to be a little distortion on the right of this picture that isn't evident on the model. My rubbish photography strikes again!

Perry

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...and here are the finished gable windows:



I decided to run horizontal strips straight across rather than making dozens of very short ones to go in between the verticals.

Aligning so many individual pieces between the uprights would have been far too difficult - not to make, but to persuade to stay in convincing aligment. I had to make a choice between the 'correct' way to do it and the way that would look best. The latter won by a short head.

That leaves me just three 'plain' rectangular windows to glaze and frame. :thumbs The main entrance still has to be completed, but there's not a huge amount to do, then I shall tackle the roof and gables.

By the way, I noticed the misalignment of a couple of verticals on the right-hand bay window. These have been corrected. :oops:

Anyway, that's all I'm doing on the model for today. I'm working over the next few days - right through the weekend, in fact, but more will hopefully follow before too long

Perry

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Perry you said "By the way, I noticed the misalignment of a couple of verticals on the right-hand bay window. These have been corrected. :oops:"

Now forgive, i know nothing about this sort of building lark but is the door frame also a tad bent, if i am wrong sorry but it looks it to me. Dont mean to be rude mate, just that it looks that way to me.

Non the less a marvelous buil mate, cant wait for the finished build.

Phill

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phill wrote: ................is the door frame also a tad bent, if i am wrong sorry but it looks it to me.......

 

It's an optical illusion, Phill. The doorway hasn't been secured in place and is leaning at a weird angle in the photo. Thanks for keeping an eye on things for me though! :cool wink

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The window framing has been completed:



The main entrance sub-assemblies are still yet to be finished and set properly in place.

I think the lattice work and the window framing sets the frontage off quite nicely.

The upper floor windows contain 66 separate pieces in all, not including the glazing, arches, keystones or sills. Another nice fiddly little job completed! :Happy

I think I shall tackle the roof and gables next, leaving the interior and final work on the main entrance until later.

By breaking the build down into stages, it has been easily manageable, and also allows me to change the order I do things as the mood takes me.

Perry

Last edited on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 06:42 pm by Perry

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It really is looking good Perry. Quite an impressive structure.

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Thank goodness it's only low-relief :exclam 

The slightly more difficult jobs are over with now; well, not really difficult, just a little fiddly and time-consuming.

I'm hoping the rest should be fairly straightforward.

Perry

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 That's going to be one hell of a building when its finished Perry

:doublethumb:doublethumb

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Cheers Kevr, :cheers

As you've probably noticed from past builds, I like to at least base my models on actual prototypes - as opposed to freelance buildings. The reason for this is that if I see a building that I find attractive and/or interesting, I get an urge to build a model of it and don't seem able to get it out of my system until I have done so. :shock:

That goods shed project of mine is a good example. The first time I laid eyes on the prototype shed, I recall saying to SWMBO, "I just gotta build one of those!":roll::lol: Little did I realise what a marathon that was going to turn into. :shock: I enjoyed every minute of the planning and the building though. :thumbs 

This current project was to be much more concise in what I was going to describe on here, but somehow I got chivvied into doing another mighty saga. :roll: I'm still enjoying it. I wouldn't do it if I didn't.

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Perry that is some build,it is going to look great in place.

:wow:cheers:lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Perry, I know that you were going to do a more consise report on this build, sorry to be one of the ones that asked for more.

Having said that, I firmly believe that this one has also been of great value to anyone who wants to pick up some tips. For me the tip about the calipers was one that I had forgotten and the reminder will be of great benefit to me.

Also the entrance doorway sub-assembly and it's lattice glazing bars were an object lesson in pulling a project down to it's most simple sub-assemblies in order to achieve a complex build. That's another lesson that's easy to forget and has been a help to me in the building of my steelworks project.

In short, another "Perry scratchbuild" has not been an essay in "more of the same", but yet more inspiration to achieve a higher standard of modelling for us all. I look foward to continuing updates, I'm sure there's more to learn coming in this thread yet.

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I must agree with Jeff there, I'm in the market for a set of calipers myself now and wish I had used them when constructing the cross bracing for the Pentrecourt Halt platform supports. Would have saved some plasticard strip.
A lot of work both to scratchbuild and to document it meaningfully for all to benefit from, but very much appreciated.

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Gwent Rail wrote: ........I know that you were going to do a more consise report on this build, sorry to be one of the ones that asked for more..........


No apology needed, Jeff. I'm enjoying doing this one and going into more detail thatn I intended has actually helped me sort out a few problems along the way. By thinking about how I can best illustrate a technique or method sometimes helps me see them in a new light too.

Thanks all for the kind comments.

The planning for the roof has begun. I realised that it wasn't going to be much good trying to design it on paper so I opted for the card mock-up method. The roof will have to be one of those "if it looks right, it is right" jobs as I can't obtain accurate measurements for it. It will just have to be made to fit the model. The prototype has some peculiar little hipped ends which give the front face of the roof a distinctive shape, so these will need to be included. There is also a small tower in the middle of the roof which is an essential element.

Here's a reminder of what the real thing look like:



The main face of the roof has been cut from a piece of scrap card:



I can now adjust the angle of the face and the height of the ridge before I work out how the hipped end face will fit:



At the moment I think the ridge is too high but the angle isn't far out.

More later.....

Perry

 

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Perry the way i work it out the roof pitch is 75 degrees,your card is 60/65
 if it`s any use to you.?

:hmm;-):lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:

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That is sure going to be a "One of a kind" when you are finished Perry. I have decided to model some low-relief buildings also, so I am watching this closely.

Wayne

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owen69 wrote: Perry the way i work it out the roof pitch is 75 degrees,your card is 60/65
 if it`s any use to you.?

:hmm;-):lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:


Certainly is, Owen, thank you, but I'm intrigued to know how you arrived at that figure. Sounds like something that would be very useful if us mere mortals can but work it out. :doublethumb

Perry

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Wayne Williams wrote: That is sure going to be a "One of a kind" when you are finished Perry. I have decided to model some low-relief buildings also, so I am watching this closely.

Wayne


Excellent! :thumbs I will be watching yours closely too. I always manage to learn something from every build because as I said before, there is no right or wrong way to do things.

Perry

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Perry i was sat doing a little modelling myself and i
have this gadget i got with practical householder
yrs gone by,



i just put it to the screen and got the angle off the photo.

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Which angle are you measuring, Owen?

I have measured several angles from the photo and don't come out anywhere near your figure, so there's obviously something I'm doing wrong or misunderstanding.

At the moment, the front face of the roof on the model is at about 45 degrees from the horizontal. Given that the angle at the back face (if this wasn't low relief) would be the same, the angle at the ridge must be 180-(45+45)=90 degrees.

Allowing for the perspective angle, this doesn't look too far out from this image, which is the best close-up I have of that area:



What is your opinion? (or anyone elses for that matter!) :hmm

Perry

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Perry i am measuring the apex of the end gable  ^  it comes out at 75 degrees

with the close up i took the angle from the front pillar perpendicular
it is 45 :oops:  hope i haven`t put you back,:sad::cool:

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Not at all, Owen.

I've spent a while this evening messing about with pieces of card trying to get it to look right. I think I'm nearly there but I've had enough for this evening.

Thanks for your valued input. :thumbs

Perry

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Sorry, no updates today I'm afraid. Family matters are taking precedence. Hopefully I'll get some more modelling done tomorrow evening.

Perry

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While still fiddling about with the card roof, I realised that the little tower in the middle wouldn't look right modelled in low-relief. I therefore need the roof to be slightly over half-depth - something I hadn't allowed for in the initial planning stage. :thud

Fortunately, the side walls being fairly plain, it was easy to extend them by about 20mm. If the resulting joins are too obvious after painting, the slight relocation of a couple of down-pipes will conceal them.

The strange thing is that the east end of the prototype is the weirdest shape I think I've ever seen; that rear face is almost vertical - almost low-relief itself!



I'm already employing some modellers licence to make both ends of the roof the same, so I propose to ignore this 'chopped off' part of the prototype and situate the tower over the ridge line.

Perry

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I can understand what you are going through Perry. I have over twenty photos of the the house I'm going to model and I am still missing a picture of one spot that I cannot see in any of the photos I have.

Only so much forward planning can be done in this endeavor, the rest is called "Modelers License" Or "Artistic Liberties".

I use them both! :mutley

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"The best laid plans etc." eh, Perry :question

This modeller's license is a wonderful thing. You may be interested to know that it was specifically invented to overcome the phenomenon known as "sod's law of scratchbuilding". This states that :- 

No matter how many measurements you make

or photos you take

some little detail will always escape

to later bite you in the backside.

:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs :cool wink

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It all helps to keep the grey cells functioning and makes the challenge of overcoming these things enjoyable. :thumbs

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Don,t worry about it perry, you are doing very well.:doublethumb

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Having extended the walls and the string courses, etc, work has begun on the roof.

To save material and to ease construction, the roof is being made in several sections.

The small gables at the ends of the main ridge were made by first cutting triangular pieces of .040" plastikard. These were clad with some 'planked' embossed plastikard. This was originally meant to be 'N' scale planking but has come in handy for several little jobs in the past. Some 4mm x 2.5mm strips were mitred and set in place to form the barge boards.

The two main surfaces of the roof were cemented together using the gable assemblies to fix their angle.



The cementing was done on a sheet of glass, because any excess solvent, although it may make the plastikard adhere to it initially, will enable it to be removed easily once dry.

Two rectangles were cut from the front edge of the roof, allowing the middle section to slide between the dormer gables. Two more triangular pieces of .040" were then cemented to the outside edges, again using the glass to ensure flatness. I secured a steel straightedge to the glass, then taped the main part of the roof to butt up against it. Aligning the two triangles was thus made much easier - and I could do it with just one pair of hands! :doublethumb



This assembly will now be allowed to set hard before any more work is carried out.

Bear in mind when looking at the assembly so far, that this is just the base of the roof. It has not been tidied up yet, and will eventually have a tiled layer on top of it.

Perry

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Card mock-ups of the angled end faces of the roof were made and checked for fit before being cut from .040" plastikard. These are joined edge-to-edge, requiring a careful bit of positioning before running the solvent into the joints. They will become much stronger once the tiles are added.



A dry test fit was carried out to make sure all was OK before proceeding further:



If it looks as though the roof is a little low at the back at present, it's because it actually is! It's only a dry fit and is unsupported at the rear. the roof will be removed again to allow the dormers and tower to be added. Tiling will take place in situ, because it all that solvent and extra plastic can distort a roof to the degree that it is exceedingly difficult to get the thing back onto the building at all.

Note to Phill: The main entrance is still not fixed in place and therefore still looks wonky! :It's a no no


Here's what the prototype roof looks like:



Perry

Last edited on Fri Dec 12th, 2008 07:34 pm by Perry

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Perry, it is getting there - superb is one word so far.

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That's quite a job you have done so far Perry. Keep up the good work!

So the cement (solvent) does not stick to glass? It does temporarily but will release after drying huh? Do you leave it on the glass until totally dry? If you did it seems it would take forever to build anything.

I am having some problems with my wooden (oak) fixture. The more I use it the more the pieces want to stick to it. :twisted:

Wayne

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Wayne,

The solvent works, as I'm sure you know, by dissolving the surface layer of the plastic. It's this slight 'melting' that can cause it to adhere to the glass, but when it is dry it is unable to maintain a permanent adhesion to the glass - because the solvent cannot penetrate or soften the glass. In my experience the parts can quite easily be 'persuaded' off the glass afterwards. I usually try to remove the part by shifting it gently sideways until it becomes 'unstuck'. Pulling it upwards can cause damage or distortion. In extreme cases a razor blade or thin knife blade can be slipped between the glass and the plastic to aid release. It pays to use the minimum of solvent that you can get away with. If it does flood onto the glass it can make removal a little trickier. It's a technique I have used quite a lot and is very helpful in maintaining flatness and alignment - particularly when joining plastikard sheet material edge to edge.

Perry

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Sol wrote: Perry, it is getting there - superb is one word so far.

Thanks, Ron.

It's been an enjoyable project so far. There's still a lot to do but it should be finished by Christmas.................2010! :roll::lol:

Perry

 

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so" ten past two " on christmas day eh? not bad.

:pedal:mutley:mutley:lol::lol::lol::cool:

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 You mean "ten past eight" Owen:hmm

Perry
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2010: the YEAR, dammit!, the YEAR!!!!! :roll::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

(as if you didn't already know........:thud)

Perry

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I haven't been able to do much work on the model over the weekend except for adding some capping on the front window gable ends.

I'm planning to build the two dormer roofs and the tower over the next day or two, time permitting.

More photos to follow soon.

Perry

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The dormer roofs were quickly and easily fabricated from pairs of triangular pieces of .040" plastikard. I made up a small jig from a scrap piece of material to allow me to cement the parts together off the model itself. It was the easiest and best way to ensure that they were as near identical as I could manage. The jig held the 'free ends' of the side walls the correct distance apart whilst I joined the top edges. The edge join was then reinforced with a strip of .040" x .040" cemented along the seam. When the completed assemblies are finally fixed to the roof and the gable ends they should be very strong without the need for further bracing.

The following photo shows the dormer roofs in position but not fixed and also shows the gable end capping:



I've just been studying the photos of the prototype so that I can plan the build of the tower. At first glance I had thought that it was yet another octagonal build! :shock::sad: However, closer examination has revealed that it is only hexagonal - two fewer sides to make. :Happy Another mock-up seems to be the order of the day. It will be the easiest way to get the proportions looking somewhere near right. I did wonder if I could get permission to climb up onto the roof of the building with a tape measure......but then again, perhaps not! :shock:

Perry

 

Last edited on Mon Dec 15th, 2008 07:45 pm by Perry

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Perry wrote: I did wonder if I could get permission to climb up onto the roof of the building with a tape measure......but then again, perhaps not! :shock:

Perry

 


Don't even think about it Perry.

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:roll::lol::lol::lol:

As I had realised that the tower was hexagonal and not octagonal, an easy way - (have you noticed I like doing things the easy way?) - of creating that shape had to be found.

It proved much simpler than I expected. A section cut from a cheap plastic ball-point pen looked to be about the right size, I sawed a piece off with a razor saw and cemented six  strips of .020" plastikard around the circumference. I estimated they needed to be about 5mm wide and this proved to be pretty close. They adhered well using my usual EMA solvent. The joins are not perfect because the plastikard isn't bevelled at the edges but the corners will be gently sanded down at a later stage and filled if required. This assembly will need to set really hard before I can cut the angle to fit it over the roof ridge. Building up the remainder of the tower from this base should be very simple.



Perry

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I cut some various sized hexagons from plastikard to make the upper and lower stepped sections, then joined them together using a section cut from an old ballpoint pen barrel (useful things, old pens). I used this because I didn't have any white plastic tube the right diameter. It's the blue section that can be seen in the photo that follows. It will be painted white(ish) later.

Small 2mm (approx) squares of .020" plastikard formed the upper and lower mounts for the smaller round vertical pieces. The six vertical elements were then added from lengths of 2mm plastic tube.

The last part to be added was the 6-sided dome shape on the very top. This was roughly shaped by hand from white Milliput and will be allowed to set hard before final shaping takes place.



The whole thing sits neatly on the ridge line of the main roof.



The prototype has what I presume is a lightning conductor spike on the top and this will be added later.

Perry

 

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The roof has been cemented in place and the tower added.

The main entrance has had further work carried out. All the latticework is now complete and the two inner doors have had glazing bars added from microstrip. A plastikard floor has been added and the narrow wall that connects the two doors has been prepared. Final detailing and trimming of the two glazed entrance units has yet to be done and some painting will be required before they are finally glued in place.

Here's how it looks so far:



Here is a general shot showing a similar viewpoint to the photo of the prototype:




There's still lots to do with regard to tiling the roof, etc., but progress is steady. :thumbs

Perry

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 Another fantastic building, well done Perry.

Whats next ?, a copy of your house perhaps??

:doublethumb:doublethumb

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Looks good Perry but to me, the dome looks a bit too tall in comparison to the prototype.

Perry
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Already did that some years ago, but the model was unfortunately accidentaly destroyed. :sad: It's the wrong era for my layout anyway.

Perry

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Sol wrote: Looks good Perry but to me, the dome looks a bit too tall in comparison to the prototype.
I agree, Ron. It looked OK when I started to build it, but now it's mounted it does look too tall. I don't think I can cut it down in height without destroying it though as it's rather delicate. I suppose I could try because it's only a case of building a new one if I can't.

Perry

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Perry could you just shorten the base where it joins the roof ? that might save
a rebuild.

:hmm;-):lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Actually, I wonder if it is a question of it being too tall. To my eye it looks as if the problem is more that the bottom layer of the model looks too thin. Another layer of plasticard on the lower section may do the trick.

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I think the problem is a combination of the top section being too tall and the bottom layer being too thin.

I'm currently working to correct this.

Thanks guys. Your constructive criticism is very much appreciated.

Perry

Last edited on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 08:07 am by Perry

Perry
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Here is the altered tower in situ. I removed about 4mm in height and added a layer of plastikard to the base to thicken it up:



...and here's the prototype again:



I think it looks much better now. Thanks to all those who gave me unbiased feedback. It's one of the things that makes this forum so good. :cheers

Perry

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Disregarding the difference in the angles that the two shots were taken at, the proportions of the modelled tower look right with regard to the rest of the building, and that would be good enough for me. Yet another fine job nearing it's conclusion.

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Well, this is the first shot:-



 

& this is the second



looks a lot better, - good job Perry.

 

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I recon you've cracked it, Perry. Nice job with the adjustments, it looks the DBs now :exclam:exclam

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got to agree with all,much better,was always going to be iffy considering
the awkward angle of the photo shot.

:doublethumb;-):lol::lol::cool:

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Just love the building, do you have by chance a drawing of the building.

 

William

Perry
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bickybtrains wrote: Just love the building, do you have by chance a drawing of the building.

 

William


Not as such. I have a book containing a old photo or two - copyrighted of course, and I have the photographs that I have taken of the buidling as it stands today. Fortunately it's only a ten-minute walk from where I live so checking up on anything I may have missed is easy enough.

Perry

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Perry, that was well worth the effort in making that change.

There's that bug, biting me again! I do have my house all sketched up though.

Wayne

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I totally agree, Wayne. The base section still appears fractionally too tall, but I had to allow for the thickness of the roof tiles that are currently being applied. It should look pretty spot-on in the end.

Perry

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As always a great build by the master :thud, when can we expect another one, infact i reckon you should scratchbuild the delivery truck to the store myself, easy enough i reckon :thumbs.

Phill

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phill wrote: As always a great build by the master :thud, when can we expect another one, infact i reckon you should scratchbuild the delivery truck to the store myself, easy enough i reckon :thumbs.

Phill


Nah, too easy, Phill. :shock::shock::shock:

I was thing more along the lines of telephone boxes............ :hmm...........you know, those lovely little red ones with LOTS and LOTS of window glazing bars that must each work out to be, ooh, at least a couple of millimetres long. :thud

No, there will be no more scratchbuilds for a while after this one is finished. I want to get some wiring completed and some ballasting done on the layout next.

Perry

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Just caught up with this thread Perry. Its a great build, but i know that if you have an idea in your head of what it should look like it doesn't matter how good other people think it is, Perfectionism i think they call it. good luck its looking good
!!

Mikey

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Work is progressing steadily on tiling the roof. It's a lot of fun due to the many different angles and ridge lines involved, but it's starting to come together.

I apologise in advance for the lighting in this photo. Trying to get the angle of the lamp right to show uo white tiles on a white background was a little tricky!



The roof is being tiled using the same material and method I used on the Great Eastern Goods Shed project. It is very important to keep checking that the strips of tiles are cemented in place absolutely level and parallel to the ridge line and eaves line. It's very easy to go slightly low on one side and each slight error compounds the problem when you reach the ridge line. Bearing in mind that the actual 'tile' part of the strip is only 3mm deep and you can see how easy it is to lose a whole tile. The resulting effect looks pretty awful. Don't ask me how I know...........:oops::thud

As I have applied quite a lot of tiling this evening, I'm going to allow it to dry overnight. Tiling uses quite a lot of solvent and I have found it best not to apply all the tiling on a roof of this size in one session.

Perry

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When Perry gets it near enough he is not satisfied,:cool wink and works to get it perfect.

When he gets it perfect he says ah thats it ,thats near enough.

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Perry, what are those little "tabs" located near the bottom edge of the roof line, on the face of the building adjacent to the upper windows? I don't see them in your previous photos.

Wayne

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They are the ends of the lead flashing strips that wrap around the buttresses. They will be at least partially concealed when all the work on the tiles and eaves has been finished.



Perry

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The front-facing elevation of the roof has been tiled up to the ridge line. Because of it's shape it was done in three basic sections; the centre part (between the gables) was completed first, then the side pieces.

I tackled the left hand section next and wasn't at all happy with the alignment when I got about half way up, so I removed the whole section and re-tiled it. I'm much happier with it now. The right-hand section went OK first time - thankfully. There were lots of angles to cut and different lengths of tiling strip to fit so there were no shortcuts. It's a slow, painstaking job, but the results are worth it.

I will finish the ends and the narrow section of reverse slope to the rear of the main ridge next, then the gables will need tiling.

I need to work fast though; I'm running out of embossed roof tile material and need to finish the job before that happens! :mutley:mutley:mutley

Perry

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Are you going to put lights in it as well Perry, just a thought, only take a little while to do i guess :roll:.

I bought a box of clear tree lights so i shall be working out how to wire those up at a lter date.

Phill

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I'm considering it, Phill.

As it's low relief I can get into the back of it very easily, so adding lights later wouldn't be a problem.

Perry

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May I pass on a little tip here for anyone using the embossed tile strip method of roofing; every so often, measure the distance from the top of the current row to the ridge line at both ends, using a pair of dividers if possible. The slightest discrepancy will be obvious and can be corrected before it becomes too large an error to deal with.

Remember what I said about the tiles only being 3mm deep (in OO scale)? It doesn't take long to be a half-tile out; 1.5mm. It's then extremely difficult to get things back in alignment without ripping it all off and starting again.

Perry

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With the exception of the gable roofs, all the tiling was completed this afternoon. :thumbs

I realised that tiling the sides of the gables was going to be very tricky, given the short lengths of tile strips needed and the angles required. I therefore looked for an easier solution.

I made up 4 dummy sides from .010 plastikard and tiled them away from the model:



When slotted into place they look OK. This one isn't fixed yet:



Once the ridge tiles have been added they should do the job nicely.

Here is the result of tiling the rest of the roof:



Sorry about the horrible colour cast, but I had a job getting the tiles to show up.

Perry

Last edited on Thu Dec 25th, 2008 04:02 pm by Perry

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Perry

Up until now I have been reading your thread without the benefit of the pictures. Today I went back through it and I have to say the work so far looks outstanding. I enjoy most of all your innovation in developing solutions. Wonderful stuff. I am looking forward to seeing the end product.

Bob(K)

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you did right making the gables up seperate,i have tried in situ terrible,
as for the colour cast well i for one have got used to it, rather novel,
it`s the model we look at and that is the best so far.

:doublethumb:thumbs;-):lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:

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Looks to be comming along fine Perry, most impressive I must say.

Reading your previous post about not doing too much tiling in one session reminds me of a problem that has developed with my model of Evans shop.
The rear elevation roof has distorted/warped. I think this may be down to the fact that I did the whole of that side of the roof in one session.
(Any comment on that?)
As it happens that side of the building won't be seen once fixed to the layout so i'm not going to do the whole lot again!

BTW I am using Slaters roof tiles laid in strips the same way as you are doing the Co-op.

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Dunno mate, you must have the patience of a Saint:exclam   I showed this to one of my friends who gulped & said " Quick , where is the Skaledale building? - would not have the time or inclination" he is the type who hates building layouts, he wants to run trains.

 

Very good job, Perry.

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Very very nice Perry .:thumbs

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 Another great building mate, and the roof looks fantastic

:wow:doublethumb:wow

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Dukedog wrote: ..................Reading your previous post about not doing too much tiling in one session reminds me of a problem that has developed with my model of Evans shop.
The rear elevation roof has distorted/warped. I think this may be down to the fact that I did the whole of that side of the roof in one session.
(Any comment on that?)
As it happens that side of the building won't be seen once fixed to the layout so i'm not going to do the whole lot again!

BTW I am using Slaters roof tiles laid in strips the same way as you are doing the Co-op.


I wouldn't be at all surprised if the distortion was linked to the tiling all being done at once. The trouble is the solvent runs along, and under, the tile strips by capilliary action and you can't see very easily how much is being applied. When you add to that the fact that the joins are being made just a few millimeters apart because of the narrowness of the tile strips, you can appreciate how easily the roof base material can become 'flooded' with solvent. Even .040" material will soften with this treatment and as the softening will all be on the upper side, it can cause warping and distortion as the underside tries to stay rigid.

I try to plan a job so that can I work on different areas, allowing some to dry while I work on others. If that's not possible, I go and do something else while it all dries out before carrying on. That solvent is funny old stuff!

Perry

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Perry, you made the comment about "slotting the gable in place", I have the exact gable in the house that I am working on, could you go into a little more detail on how you did that?

What a great looking model Perry, right up to your masterful standards.

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote: ..................you made the comment about "slotting the gable in place", I have the exact gable in the house that I am working on, could you go into a little more detail on how you did that?...............Wayne

I made card mock-ups of the gables which allowed me to easily trim them to get a good fit. When I was happy with the fit, I replicated the card mock-ups in plastikard. I was then able to 'slot' them into place so that they became self-aligning between the pairs of buttresses present on this model. The buttresses provided positive location of the sub-assemblies without having to resort to trying to glue them in place according to pencil-marked locations. Basically, if one had held the gables above the roof of the model, and simply dropped them into place, them would have found their own locations with hardly any manual adjustment being needed.

:thumbs

Perry

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Thanks Perry, when you said "slotting in place", I was envisioning something different, but now I understand.
What if anything, are you going to do with the joint between the tile of the gable and the tile of the roof? It seems to look just fine in the pictures. I was just wondering if you were going to do any more in that area. (I'm not sure my joint would look that clean!)

Wayne

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The prototype doesn't show anything else at the join - there is no lead flashing, for example, so apart from painting, I don't intend adding anything else at the joint.

Perry

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I woud guess in that the flashing is under the tiles & unless you got up there & had a close look, you would not see that from the ground.

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Looking at the prototype, the ends of the beams that protrude beneath the eaves are very evident. There is, therefore, no way I can get away with leaving them out. :sad:





1mm x 2mm microstrip looked about right when offered up to the model. I set about cutting some 8mm lengths and when I had accumulated a small stock, cut them to shape with a sharp knife. This involved cutting one end at 45 degrees and an uneven-sided point on the other, trying to make sure that the longer side of the point would be uppermost when the piece was fixed in place.



Referring to my photos of the prototype I was able to count the number of 'beams' that were needed between the two buttresses. There were ten sticking straight out and one more each side flush with the wall. I attached the ten 'straight out' beams beneath the eaves, trying to get the spacing as even as possible by eye. The flush beams will be added after the guttering is fixed in place.

Laying the model on it's back, it was fairly easy to hold each beam in place with a pair of fine-pointed tweezers (forceps) whilst applying a small quantity of solvent with a fine brush.




The guttering will be fixed at the junction of the roof and the beams in due course.




When I started this particular job it looked as though it might be a bit fiddly and time-consuming but I was pleasantly surprised how quickly and easily the parts could be made and fixed in place. I think the end result will be well worth the extra effort.

Perry


Last edited on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 06:27 pm by Perry

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Quote by Perry :-

When I started this particular job it looked as though it might be a bit fiddly and time-consuming but I was pleasantly surprised how quickly and easily the parts could be made and fixed in place. I think the end result will be well worth the extra effort.

I altered the colour of certain words & emphasised one specific word because in my opinion, no MIGHT about it &  fiddly & time-consuming but it was certainly worth it - the Coop looks fantastic so far. I showed the topic to my friend who uses balsa & card & does a wonderful job (s CraigSR knows ) & he too, was very impressed.

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Cheers Ron. :thumbs

For me it's making that little bit of extra effort that I feel pays off. If I hadn't bothered with these little 'beams' then every time I look at the model in the future the abscence of them would stick out like the proverbial sore thumb - because I know they should be there. Folks who don't know the building itself or haven't seen pictures wouldn't miss them, but I build these things for my own satisfaction and therefore to my own satisfaction.

I'm not sure that I have a great deal of patience; certainly no more than anyone else, so I don't think it's that which enables me to carry out tasks like this. I think it's more a case of just not allowing boredom to creep up on me. The job is simply repetitive and as long as one can switch off the 'tedium switch' in one's head it's surprising how quickly things can be accomplished. I tend to think "Great, that's 20 made already" and then just carry on, rather than, "Oh no, I've still got another 80 of these to make."It's attitude that makes a difference.

In some of my previous projects I have counted up the total number of parts that I have fabricated in order to complete a build. Sometimes these numbers even surprise me. Perhaps if I had foreseen the high number of parts involved before starting out it might have discouraged me, so I'm glad I didn't.

Persistence is the key. Decide you're going to achieve something and just get on with it. Bash away doing the same thing time after time, no matter how boring it seems, and the final result should be worthwhile.

The only reason I make these observations here is because I stated at the beginning of this project that I wasn't going to do a blow-by-blow account of the build. I wanted to try to impart more of an insight into the mindset of designing and building a project. However, I bowed to  peer pressure and ended up doing a full account. I feel that I rather lost sight of what I wanted to say as this project took shape. So now I've said what I wanted to say and I can get on with finishing the job. These comments are intended as encouragement for those still to dip their toes in the scratchbuilding pond. I have said several times before that it isn't difficult and it isn't beyond anyone's capabilities. All one needs is the will to make a start and the drive to keep going to the end. If previous feedback on this forum is anything to go by, no-one will lack encouragement, so let's see some more scratchbuild projects getting under way. :doublethumb

To finish this project I still have to make and fit the remaining beams, the guttering and downpipes, and then assemble the main entrance. The flooring can then be finished off before painting commences.

Perry

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I finished cutting and fitting the 52 beams this evening. They now need to set hard before I can make and fit the guttering. The final 4 beams can't be fitted until that's done.

Perry

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Perry, I totally agree with your comments on sticking with it. I am now under the impression that soldering is not to much fun, but as I look at what is done already, I'm ecstatic about it.
If I sat down and laid out every little step that went into a project, I wouldn't start it! It would scare me to death. Just do what has to be done first then what needs to be done next, before you know it, it's Done!

I always enjoy your FULL accounts of scratchbuild projects Perry, Yeh, I know, I'm one of them that was doing the pushing! :mutley :pedal

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote: .............If I sat down and laid out every little step that went into a project, I wouldn't start it! It would scare me to death. Just do what has to be done first then what needs to be done next, before you know it, it's Done!......................Wayne

Exactly, Wayne.

I think there has to be an overall plan of action, e.g. what needs doing and when, because the order in which some processes are carried out can be very important. Then when you feel you have broken the tasks down into manageable sized steps they can be started. As you rightly say, it's probably best not to look at something and realise that you have to carry out one task perhaps 50 times, because it could be quite discouraging. All one needs to do is crack on - and not give up.

Perry

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Almost all the beams have been fitted in place. There are just a few more that need fitting at the ends of the gutters when they are dry:



The gutters were cut and shaped from .040" plastikard then profiled using the scraper technique I have described elsewhere on the forum.

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=134&forum_id=11&highlight=scrapers

Unfortunately they don't show up well on the following picture, so you'll have to take my word for it that they look the part! :thumbs



The downpipes will be added last, so the next task will be to complete the main entrance.

Perry

Last edited on Thu Jan 1st, 2009 06:20 pm by Perry

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Apart from a few external details such as the downpipes and lightning conductor which will be added after painting, the main construction is now complete. :Happy

Interior fitting out will be carried out at a later stage.

The main entrance has been fited and steps added outside both doors:



This is what I set out to achieve:



...and here is the final picture before painting:



Perry

 

Last edited on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 09:01 am by Perry

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It looks stunning, Perry.  You should take it down there and show them.

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Stunning it is but there's no way on earth I would dare touch it with a paintbrush.

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Robert wrote: ........... but there's no way on earth I would dare touch it with a paintbrush.

:hmm:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Perry

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MaxSouthOz wrote: It looks stunning, Perry.  You should take it down there and show them.

I don't think that will happen; it's bad enough having to show it on here. :oops:  :oops:

I'm going to leave it for a day or two now, just so I can look at it with a fresh eye. It's surprising how often I notice things that still need doing before painting.

Perry

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Perry, what a super model you have there. I especially like the way you did the windows, they do look the part quite well.

Can't wait to see it painted!

Wayne

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Perry wrote: Robert wrote: ........... but there's no way on earth I would dare touch it with a paintbrush.

:hmm:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Perry

I can cope with emulsion on the walls of our apartment Perry but to let me loose on a thing like your model would be criminal.

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Perry you have got to be proud of yourself,  and i am not being gratuitous
that is some build,

:pathead:doublethumb:lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:

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I'll pass final judgement when painting is complete, but this could well be the best you have done :exclam:exclam It certainly is competing very strongly with the goods shed and I would be delighted to have such a model on my layout.

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What a astoundinmg build and i reckon its the best build you have ever done and that includes that wonderfull goods shed. Well done mate but i shall like Jeff reserve my final verdict when the lights inside is complete :thumbs

Phill

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Thanks for the kind comments guys. :thumbs

Phill: Don't hold your breath for the lighting. I don't intend doing the interior for some time yet. I've got lots of other stuff on the layout that I want to do first.

Perry

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Tut half a job mate, half a job. :mutley. Bet my mate Jeff would not leave his half done all though being, nope must not break the truce :It's a no no.

Phill

Ps what would be nice is some sort of shot of your layout and just where the heck all these scratchbuilds you have done are going mate :thumbs

Last edited on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 01:36 pm by phill

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phill wrote: ..............what would be nice is some sort of shot of your layout and just where the heck all these scratchbuilds you have done are going mate :thumbs



What would be nice is to get some work done on the layout. :thud This scratchbuild has taken me just over two months so far - and that's without painting it and doing the interior!

I have previously posted a picture in the Goods Shed thread showing roughly where that will stand, and the current Co-op building will be going fairly close to the Town Cross - on the sub-baseboard over the two bridges.

Sorry to disappoint you, Phill, but I'm a long way from having a camera-ready layout to show. I enjoy the construction of the buildings as much as I enjoy operating the layout, so any progress I make in either direction is OK by me. I'm enjoying the modelling and not just the 'testing', although I try to make time for both! :cool wink

Perry


                 

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