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Hi All.  I have been considering weathering, but I am yet to master the job. And then one day if I did master weathering, where do I stand with a new Loco or Carriage. If I was consider the re sale or exchange from another vehicle, it could be be devalued. Maybe I shall have the new stock as ex paint shop, and direct my attention to old or very cheap preowned stock.   Best wishes Kevin 

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Practice on old stuff Kevin until you have mastered the weathering.

If you bought your railway loco`s as an asset then you dont touch them unless your an expert.

If you bought them for fun and your pleasure and not an asset then when you feel confident enough weather them.

That way the value does not matter as many of us will have them till we go to the pearly gates and all that will happen then the executor will have a dealer around who will give 30% of what its worth retail so it dont really matter if you weather or not.

Brian

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Hi Kevin,

The day you bought it it was already devalued. Start with an old body shell or cheap non-runner. Weathering pigments and a set of decent fine bristle brushes is easy, if you don't like it wash them off. Study photographs to see what goes where. Black, grey, red rust, orange rust and white works for most things. Start with grey, then move on getting lighter. Use black for oil patches. Shiny black - mix the black pigment with a bit of acrylic clear gloss diluted 50:50 with water or acrylic paint diluent. Use a fine brush to set in place. A basic kit is not expensive.

Airbrushing gets expensive, decent low pressure airbrush and a set of nozzles,  paint resevoirs, compressor and air reservoir, a booth to prevent the mist from going everywhere...my set-up with a Paasche single action was over $200. And this is a basic model airbrush. 


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Hi Brian.  Thank you for your reply. Of course I buy to run them and play with them. But one never knows?I am not a collector or eBay seller, but mistakes happen when buying stuff. Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. I was just thinking about the photographs that I have seen in comparison with some YouTube layouts, but that is a long way off. I will have to wait until I can get to another model Railway show to buy the rough and ready stock, as I was in Hospital when I had expected to go to one. I really should keep myself busy, But luckily enough I got a bit of fresh air today with a walk down the Close with the physiotherapist ,it had been nearly two months since I saw the sun and walked outside, I must get fit again and get back to Modelling Railways .Best wishes Kevin 

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Whether to weather?  When did you last see a spotless train?  Maybe just out of works or on a preserved railway.

I started on a couple of small wagons by inking in the gaps between planks.  It grew from there.  I taught myself the rudiments of powder weathering and own, though seldom use, a Paasche airbrush.  


I now find myself, some ten years or so later, being invited to give demonstrations and attend exhibitions.  The most recent development is two requests to provide master-classes to experienced and award-winning modellers.


My encouragement to anyone is to try it.  None of us knows what we are capable of without trying.  Start small.  Powders and water-based paints come off if you really don't like the job.  Ink and enamels don't.    But you can usually turn even the worst job into something better by walking away and coming back another day.

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Here's one I did earlier.  A Bachmann DMU has had passengers added and carries a moderate amount of weathering.  The track and ballast are also weathered.


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Hi Rick. Thank you for your reply . I acquired a set of “ Powders “ legally, that no one else wanted, but, I have no idea how to use them, even though I googled the subject. It is really annoying having so much time on my “shaky hands “. I must keep up with the exercises to overcome the arthritis or whatever it is.I cannot even hold a pen properly, so I don’t know how I would do weathering unless the shaky painting added a new dimension to the job.  Best wishes Kevin 

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I suffer from gout, which is a form of arthritis, and whilst more commonly in feet than hands it affects both at times.

Fine detail straight lines might not be easy but if you can manage to find a grip on the brush - or better still get hold of a brush with moulded grip on the handle - then you can probably make a start.

The better quality your brush the better will be the end result. I invested in a red sable brush around 8 years ago which remains my number one weathering brush to this day. It wasn't expensive but you won't find one in Poundland!

There are days when I simply can't hold the brush but they are very few. Weathering can wait for a better day. Unless, like me, you are giving demonstrations! I have only had to cancel one event so far.

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Hi Rick. Thank you for your encouragement. As soon as I can get shopping on my own and go to a model Railway show I will look out for advice on what I need. Something to hold the powders , according to the Humbrol YouTube video I was watching since my first reply? Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Kevin,

Why do you need to hold the powder? The brushing action embeds the powder in the paint. It helps if you give the body shell a spray with clear matt acrylic. It is softer than the original paint, and weathered stock was not shiny!. Unless you handle the body with greasy fingers it stays there. Wash with a soft toothbrush removes it. Spraying the powder afterwards with fixative is problematic. Use India ink for dirty door frames/panel junctions first. Comes in many colors, apply and wipe off excess.

There are specialist brushes for fine lines or streaks (rust, water scale).
This was done with powders and rust acrylic.


.  Use sable or synthetic equivalent.

Less ootoob, more DIY. 

Nigel

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I wonder if perhaps he meant something to put the powders in.  Akin to an artist's palette for "holding the paint".

I use a lazy susan which my wife declared surplus to kitchen requirements and was promptly repurposed in the workroom.  It has the twin benefits of multiple dishes to hold and blend powders thus giving a selection of shades all ready to use and it rotates to allow the one I want to be nearest to hand every time.

Perhaps I should add that I don't seal powder work afterwards either because no matter what you spray it with you will wet the powder which then turns momentarily to liquid and can run, dissolve or at the least turn into blobs.

I do use hair spray as posted above but it must go on first.  It must also not come into contact with the glazing as some sprays will cause some glazing material to craze.  As I discovered when attending to a CK corridor composite.

Luckily the coach in question is maroon and therefore I can claim that when it appears (which isn't very often) it is steam heated and the windows have fogged up!  There's a positive side to almost anything ......... 

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We spend a huge amount of time trying to create a miniature version of a railway - be it steam or diesel.

We go to the "N'th" degree to make the trees look good, to make the grass stand up, to make accurate copies of buildings, even for some, researching signalling convention so our "masterpiece" looks as close to the real thing as possible.

Then we plonk a toy train on it !!

Accurate models they may be but, as Rick said, when did you last see pristine stock on a railway ?  Railways, particularly steam ones, are very dirty beasts.  Why should we want shiney stock running on ours ?  It just looks odd, out of place and in stark contrast to what we're trying hard to create.

Of course, I'm not including collectors in this - their "collection" must be absolutely pristine in every facet - box included.  Unfortunately nowadays, thanks to mass production, their collections are never going to be worth the price of a Rembrandt.

I say weather - but yes, practice on something you can afford to throw in the dustbin first .....................

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A wise and logical comment Peter, yet with many, often notably those 'railways of the month' one sees in the glossy mags, have nothing but bright shiny sparkly stuff covering the entire baseboards!

Yes, the effects of nature on the natural and man made environment, coats every sinlge thing out of doors and those layouts looking most natural to the eye, have undergone a comprehensive approach to weathering, utilising a simple integrated pallet of colours and products.

The very rare occasion of an almost pristine loco may be seen in the real world, but observing a whole townscape with brand new roof coverings simply defies reality.

Weathering is best considered as an integral part of modelmaking and that is where the consistant use of a restricted colour pallet aids the recreation of reality.

Weathering is also a pleasing activity and with the adoption of a consistent approach, the whole layout will automatically become more believable.

Each to the own though and many will still be happy with playing trains. Rule One still applies!

Bill 

 

Last edited on Sun Jul 28th, 2019 10:05 am by Longchap

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Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with what you are saying.. But I am worried more about my Skill or Lack of Skill at doing the weathering especially at the time of writing with my hands, and worst of all not being to hold a cup of tea properly or a pen. So painting/ weathering cannot be much different, watching YouTube doesn’t help me as everyone has different ideas. And to reiterate what I have said before “ I am not a showcase collector “.Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Bill Thank you for your reply. Of course I agree with you. I have seen too many YouTube “ Model  Railways” that have just come out of the box, even laid directly on the floor with multiple trains running in sequence, all very good for a child’s Railway, but, to be lifted and put away in it’s box at night, no good, never mind the Motors being clogged up with bits of carpet etc.  Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. I would never argue with your expertise, especially with your photo of your own work, that looks excellent. But, the way that you have achieved this baffles me. Even having read how your “ modus operandi “ . That too has gone over my head. You must do a thread on the subject. Best wishes Kevin 

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Hello Kevin (and everyone else reading this thread)
There is an interesting thread on Railpage Australia

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p798748.htm#798748 which you could possibly use as a bit of a tutorial.  Although I have not tried weathering at all, I have a couple of weathered items done by others  and they stand out well. One of those projects I will get to...

Having said that, having seen many trains from a roadside, although not pristine glistening brand new, the effect of distance is such that weathering effects are often not quite so noticeable from a viewing distance but colour variations due to weathering are. So Blood and Custard coaches or SR green ones will be obviously different in the tones that present themselves to the naked eye as all the coaches in the train would have been repainted at different times therefore faded to different levels.  

I would suspect that even just a coat of Dull Coat would assist in making your rollingstock a little less "out of the box".

Hope this helps

Cheers

Trevor

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Hi Trevor . Thank you for your reply. I have seen a weathering project on (YouTube)with a “ Plate Girder Bridge “ which involved “ Dull Coat “ . But I am going off of YouTube. I cannot remember seeing blood and custard,  it must have been about, somewhere.   Best wishes Kevin 

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Can't remember seeing blood and custard Kevin !!!!

You must be younger than me .....................................or more likely, the Southern Region was colour blind ...... :mutley

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Rick and Nigel plus interested parties. I actually meant “ to hold the powders in position on the vehicle “,rather than being rubbed off over time and looking smudged.  Being the weathering novice that I am. Best wishes Kevin 

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Of those contributing to this thread Trevor and Petermac have both seen my weathering first-hand and may recall as much if they stretch their memories far enough! I make no pretence of skill. I am self-taught and have made a few mistakes along the way. The simple fact stands that - medical conditions notwithstanding - if we never start we shall never find out what we can or, possibly, cannot do.

It costs very little to purchase a few basics. You can probably get going for under £20 and maybe even less. A brush and a basic set of three or four powders from the likes of Tamiya or DCC Concepts. I dislike Humbrol as their powder is gritty and poorly ground so does not grab; instead it scratches smooth plastic surfaces if you can get it onto the brush at all.

I have, or had, a short video clip somewhere online but fear it might have been on my Photobucket site which has gone down the gurgler. I'll see what can be found.

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Hi Rick. Thank you for your reply. I will take your advice. But it will have to wait until I am independent in the walking department. And get to the next model Railway show with my shopping list. Best wishes Kevin 

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If you can get them in the UK, Bragden powders are the best, and I have tried a few different brands. Powdered minerals and rusts, 100 times finer than chalk powders, with a dry adhesive coating that gets activated when brushing on. Needs a matt surface though. You only need small amounts. Good set is around $40.00.  

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Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. Bragden  that could sound like the fans of my local Soccer Team, if they ever win?Which is a rare occurrence. But I do not understand how that brushing action activates the powders, and does it make it adhere to the plastic bodywork?   Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Kevin,can you not get what you want online?

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Hi Nigel.  Another reply. I wish that I kept up with my Swedish language lessons, because when I googled Bragden all I got was an excited Swedish commentary at a sporting event. Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Alan. Thank you for your reply. That is a good question, but I do not know what I need, exactly. Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Rick.  I have just read through your reply again, I remember, that fifty odd years ago when my local model shop only sold Hornby or   Fleischmann Model Railways. Of course I went for Hornby and if I had known about weathering and wanted to do it at that time it was just a matter of undoing the screws and the roof would pop off likewise the glazing. Does that not happen with modern stock?  Best wishes Kevin  

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Hi Rick.  Yet another reply. You mentioned a sable paint brush, being unfamiliar with artist quality brushes as I am could you be more specific on size/ type / or whatever brush I should ask for, if I can make such a purchase in my part of London or how I can locate a suitable outlet.  Best wishes Kevin 

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Mea culpa - Bragdon Enterprises.

Nigel

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BCDR wrote: Mea culpa



All Greek to me :lol:

Don't think they're available in the UK Nigel.


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Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. What did I misread it?   Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Nigel.  I see it now? I replied to Rick. My fault, indeed. Best wishes Kevin 

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Ed wrote: BCDR wrote: Mea culpa



All Greek to me :lol:

Don't think they're available in the UK Nigel.


Ed

Hi Ed,

Latin, that's why. Several US suppliers will ship to the UK. Megahobby.com for example. The DCC Concepts range looks to be rebranded Bragdon (submicron, coated for adhesion, color range looks identical).

Nigel

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Hi Nigel.   Now I really confused, when you said “mea culpa” I could not remember where the message came from?Now I realise that it was from you, referring to a misspelling.   Best wishes Kevin 

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BCDR wrote: Ed wrote: BCDR wrote: Mea culpa



All Greek to me :lol:

Don't think they're available in the UK Nigel.


Ed

Hi Ed,

Latin, that's why. Several US suppliers will ship to the UK. Megahobby.com for example. The DCC Concepts range looks to be rebranded Bragdon (submicron, coated for adhesion, color range looks identical).

Nigel

The Romans left a long time ago :roll:

With the current exchange rate I don't think many people will be ordering anything from the USA, or anywhere else overseas for that matter.


Ed

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Kevin

I would have to jump in and agree with Rick and the others who said "have a go".

My thread on weathering (albeit using an airbrush) showed that you can go from "total numpty" to "yes - I like that" in a few attempts.  The secret is to make mental/written notes of what you do and what you use.  Follow the advice of others and experiment on old stuff. 

Everybody has old stuff - anything thats plastic will do to get you started - an old bus, truck, wagon, anything.



I have posted this before - its my first ever airbrush weathering attempt and it got binned within minutes of this photo being taken.  It started out as a well painted and lettered MR 10T box van but ended up looking like the loser in a mud fight.

Within a few weeks, I was doing this ;



The difference between these two results is about 2 dozen practice goes!!

I have also seen Rick's weathering first hand and can vouch for the realism of powders.  Grill him for details of powders, brushes and techniques - brave the joys of eBay and have a bash!!

Barry

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Hi Barry.  Thank you for your reply. I am the odd one out, forty odd years ago I got rid of everything. And on my return to model Railways in 2015 I started again from scratch with new stock. And now the price of rubbish 2nd hand stock at shows is not far short of new stock. I have got some “cut and shut “ projects waiting in the wings “ but I have got to save that until my hands are steady enough to do the job.  I will seek more advice from Rick on weathering.             Best wishes Kevin 

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For cheap practice stock Kevin, you could do worse than buy some of the old Airfix kits - now marketed by Dapol I think ....................

They make up into fairly decent wagons but are cheap to buy.

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Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply. The only Dapol kit that I have purchased this time around, is a Loco shed. As you stated an old Airfix kit. But it doesn’t quite go together like the Airfix kit and I need to work on it. Best wishes Kevin 

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Wow. This topic has moved on a bit in the past couple of days! Yes Barry has been witness to not only the end result but also to the process of applying dirt by powder. As were quite a number of others at the recent Twickenham & District MRC Open Day. I seldom had fewer than five people around my stand and there was an endless string of questions which can only be good for the hobby as a whole.

My favourite brush is a No.7 red sable which any decent art / craft shop should be able to sell. I know such shops don't survive on every High Street but brushes are also available cheaply online. A No.5 will also help with getting into some smaller spaces, while the trusty 1" house-painting brush is great for spreading the grime along roof and side panels. PS - it's also a very handy ballast spreader!

I invested recently in a DCC Concepts kit which includes some useful powders and a selection of applicators. Of interest they include some which are intended for use with make-up but which I have found invaluable in applying weathering. Here's the link https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/weathering-set-layoutgeneral/
The other powders I use are a US brand which was AIM but is now Monroe Models.  These I get mailed from the US but beware - there is a customs fee charged upon arrival here.  The benefit is that you get a lot more powder for your money so overall it is still cheaper than stocking up on DCC Concepts for larger volumes of work.  If you ever find any Carrs powders at shows or in old shop stock they too are excellent but they have been out of business for some years now.  I don't use Humbrol because they are gritty and I don't like Tamiya because they are greasy.  Other brands may be available which I haven't tried.

I handle items using old T-shirts and never with bare fingers. Your worst enemy is the greasy fingerprint - often not seen until the weathering has been applied.

The way present-day models are constructed can differ to that of old. We don't usually get the roof fixed with two screws through the floor for example though that was standard for many years with Tri-ang / Hornby. Most carriages now will pop apart if prised very carefully though beware of such things as fine metal fittings which are often tightly fitted into both roof and frames and may become bent in the dismantling process. Locos vary from having a number of fixing screws holding body to frames (and which can be quite obscure and even require removal of other bits first to find them) to the relatively simply clip-off - clip-on still favoured by Heljan though again many are an extremely tight fit and one risks damage by over-use of persuasion. Fitting crew into loco cabs is another tricky area since many diesel cabs are fixed in place and sometimes very well glued indeed. Others will pop out but again the entire assembly often needs to come apart first and great care must be used to avoid damage. Steam crews can be fitted by insertion through cab sides or directly onto the footplate where possible. If neither is possible then the cab roof will usually come off if prised carefully though in a few cases it too is screwed down.

If you're not sure then ask before dismantling. Either here or over on the vast and very busy RMweb - it's a huge site but the number of users means there is always someone there who has done the job before and is able to help out.

Last edited on Wed Jul 31st, 2019 08:58 pm by Gwiwer

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Rick I've seen your weathering 'in the flesh' so to speak and can confirm, its excellent !
Kevin if you want something cheap and cheerful to practice on let me know and ill see whats in the bargain bin at my local swappmeet this weekend. sometimes they have mixed  'goody bags' for a few pennies which are ideal for your first practice trials

cheers

Matt


                 

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