Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Model Railway Layouts. > Small Layouts,Planks and Micros > Kevin's Inglenook Junction To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno  
AuthorPost
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

At Long Last Some Photos of my Planks clamped together . Meanwhile doesn’t that scenic break look bare, this is the non scenic back side of it. And the scenic side isn’t any better, just two portals stuck on, and there is a lot to do. But at the time of writing, I am losing the will , I need inspiration, and lots of it. It would seem that I cannot finish one job before I start another one. Best wishes Kevin 








More Later (Hopefully)

Kevin

Last edited on Fri Sep 13th, 2019 10:54 pm by Passed Driver

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Looks like you are making some positive progress the Kevin
The upright board between the 2 planks is that a scenic break or is one plank a fiddleyard?

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian. Thank you. It is a scenic break between the Shunting Puzzle and the fiddleyard. I have a pair of tunnel portals to glue on. The Inglenook has been working successfully  for three years and I was too busy Shunting back and forth to bother with scenery. But it all came to a shuddering halt ( shuddering halt ,was somewhere in Kent?) with the series of short circuits.Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I believe Nigel is working closely with you re the shorts so i wont complicate issues im sure it will be something simple thou now with you posting pictures it will help a great deal in resolving problems.


Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian. Thank you for your reply. The thing is that being the third plank/ module that I have knocked out, all with the points wired the same way, being, three wires, (one from the bus, one from the DPDT Slide switch, and  one stock rail of the point) soldered and Insulated together, have worked, apart from the odd hiccup .Best wishes Kevin 

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Great to see some photos Kevin, and progress being made.   The dark art of electronics is frequently a mystery to me too, so I feel your frustration!  Nice looking carpentry though....

You actually have a nice amount of space for scenery and buildings - your planks are not as small as you may imagine - plenty of room for some interesting cameo scenes a la John Dew, I think.... And as you have backboards in place for a backscene, lots of opportunities to give the track a location.  And room for low relief buildings too.  Very exciting.  

I saw a layout along similar lines to yours.  They had material, a little like curtains, behind tunnels portals that led to a fiddle yard.  The locos could push through it, but once through, the "curtain" stopped a viewer seeing through the tunnels and into the off scene work - you might want to  consider something similar.  

Keep us up to date!

Michael

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael. Thank you for your reply. I have been trying to figure out just how to do that, that being like a valve. Meaning to say that when the Loco enters the tunnel from the scenic part of the layout it will just move the curtain out of the way, whereas on the return journey it could become snagged. I was thinking along the lines of a flexible rubber tube.  Best wishes Kevin 

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Good idea!  Here is another solution...

https://modelrailwayengineer.com/the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever

Regards

Michael



Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael  Thank you for your reply.   I will take that on board.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael. I have been studying your suggested tip, about the tunnel and beyond. My pair of portals by Noch, are made from “ Hard Foam “ , which looks good, now for the tunnel lining, I purchased a sheet on O gauge stone which would be fine if the sheets were larger? Then, but I think brick would look more authentic, the sheets could be set diagonal, the way that tunnel linings are laid. Have you got any comments? Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Wow Kevin - what a difference a photo makes !!  We can now see exactly what you're talking about and, as Michael said, you have a pretty decent space there to make a very appealing "shelf" layout with lots of operating potential.

I also think his idea of a curtain hiding the fiddle yard is good.  Light "flimsy" material is the one to go for, not heavy tapestry type stuff.  It won't snag when the stock exits the fiddle yard if you design it like a walk through fly screen - i.e. 2 flaps with a split down the middle.

Great stuff - keep the photos coming now you've discovered how to do it.,

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply. You are correct about “ light at the end of the tunnel? “, but the total length including the fiddleyard is only eight feet ( 2. 4384 ) . As for photos, I have to get out of the rut of playing trains instead of building scenery.    Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Yet another reply ? WOW? Yes but the gremlins are about again. I stripped all the wiring from the fiddleyard, and I do hate waste, except for the frog wires and bus. Then I began again red droppers to the red bus likewise black droppers to the black bus, straight forward, then wire the DPDT Slide switches to their respective buses “ simples” . Connect power and detect a short, even without a Loco on the track. I had better get out the Multimeter.  Best wishes Kevin 

ZeldaTheSwordsman
Madman


Joined: Fri Jan 15th, 2016
Location: Pomona, California USA
Posts: 582
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

You have a nice little plank there Kevin. It's good to finally see it

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin if your going to strip and re wire I would suggest connecting two wires, one to each rail then test, if ok connect next two in line and test, slowly work through the plank until fault appears, hopefully this will show where fault is occurring
Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Zelda. Thank you for your reply. But it is a PITA about the gremlins and the short circuit. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. Thank you. I should have got your advice earlier, as I have already begun the job. Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Matt is spot on, but with a multimeter you not need current going to the rails. If you have continuity in ohm mode with the contacts touching the rails you have a short. If you used rail joiners and the track is not gapped between sections you may need to start from scratch. Check any copper clad sleepers to make sure the sides are isolated, and check that the frogs are in fact electrically isolated from the closure and exit rails. Did you do a full conversion of the points or are they still power routed? Check the point rails are in fact isolated from each other.

Nice to see some photos. Re the "tunnels": Do just that. You have space for what looks like 4"-6" of tunnel painted black or brick wall cuttings inside on the fiddle side, scenic the track for another foot with ballast and perhaps some backdrop buildings and it will look fine. Use some cutouts and the camera to see where you need to put them. All this depends on the viewing height. Standing at the far end of the scenic plank and looking through at viewing height will determine how far so you need to go. Bits of paper or strips of plastic hanging down will end up in the rods or wheels at some point. Usually with undesirable results.

Remember my comment some time ago about angling the fiddle yard entry/exit track?

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. When I read Matt’s comments, I worked in reverse, and have been de soldering all the bus connections.,    :off topic now I have taken a dinner break ( spaghetti bolognaise ) plus tea and biscuits.Yes I did “a full conversion on the Electrofrog points “. As for cuttings, a nice idea, but I haven’t got much headroom on the fiddleyard board unless they were either flexible or removable? I haven’t got my head around Multimeters yet.
Re the cut outs , is that from Magazines? or whatever. It was good of Matt to sort out my laptop for me, and I have still got to purchase a mouse mat.   Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Another reply ? I will have to find a better title for my thread. The Bodgit was a reference to the haphazardly way that I added/ changed use of the programme track., “Inglenook Junction “ would sound better.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. Yet another reply, I have been de soldering all the “ Red Wires “ so far, or should I do the blacks as well? I don’t really want to remove the fishplates or lift the points because once the “ WIT “ has been cut short it can be a right pain to line them up with the throw bars. Is there a way around it???    Also I have rigged up an independent PCP for my Powercab, as I have tested the baseboard to baseboard jumpers which were okay. And I still haven’t purchased a mouse mat , I did vacuum the “mouse hole “. Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 07:03 pm by Passed Driver

MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12343
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

There you go, Kevin.  :cool:


Passed Driver wrote: Hi Nigel.  Another reply ? I will have to find a better title for my thread. The Bodgit was a reference to the haphazardly way that I added/ changed use of the programme track., “Inglenook Junction “ would sound better.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Max.  Thank you for your handywork , I thought of the original name on the spur of the moment. Best wishes Kevin 

MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12343
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

No worries, Kevin.

If you want it changed again, let me know.  :cool:

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Max.  Thank you. That is perfect, I have to do some thinking about scenery. Best wishes Kevin 

TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 295
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Brilliant to see photos Kevin. Looking forwards to seeing more. 


Hope you enjoying it


Passed Driver wrote:
At Long Last Some Photos of my Planks








More Later (Hopefully)

Kevin

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris . Thank you for your reply. There will be some more, as soon as I do some scenery and I have got rid of the gremlins,  now that I have thought about it I should of built a three foot fiddleyard instead of a four foot one and had eight foot of scenery.  Watch this space.  Best wishes Kevin 

TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 295
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Making changes is enevitable! And those gremlins won’t leave me alone! Haha

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris. I am going to wait up for them, and give them a shock with my electric fly swat. Have you ever seen an “electric fly”? LOL.   Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris . Matt, Nigel, Ron, Petermac, and all interested parties. Staying firmly on my own thread! I have now de soldered all the red and black droppers, testing for short circuits as I went, and finding shorts all the way, the last wires being connected were those to the DPDT Slide switches. Then I tested the, by now, isolatated from the rest like orphans, the sidings and the result, obviously no shorts as one would expect. Ergo the DPDT Slide switches must be at fault, unless anyone knows better? Please let me know.  It must be dinner time for me, the Inglenook can wait awhile.Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

you may have to test the DPDT slide switches...

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron   Thank you. AFAIK? I did test them and I couldn’t find a fault, maybe I missed a trick? Is there a certain way to test them that I don’t know about?     Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.   And anyone who has replied. Bare bones like Bare Boards don’t build a.railway , :off topic ( and a major delay on crossrail was the discovery of human remains) . I have been playing trains for so long, that it is about time that I did some scenery! A cutting next to the tunnel portals has been suggested, but I need help. Any advice please?Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Frog switches need 3 leads, one from each bus (red/black or whatever you used) and 1 to the frog. Not sure why you are using a DPDT instead of an SPDT unless you are powering 2 frogs at once (cross over for example). Bus wires to 1 and 3, out to frog on 2 (or 4,6 and 5). Are you powering the switch from the track or the bus?

Switch on 1 and 2, contuinity, 3 is dead, switch on 2 and 3, continuity, 1 is dead. Have you checked for a loose wire shorting across the terminals? If you disconnect the DPDT is there still a short?

These slide switches are not heavy duty, they have a high failure rate, especially the cheap ones. Which most are.

How about a wiring diagram now you have mastered photos?

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. Originally I followed the DPDT Slide switch advice from Gary, and then I discovered a use for the spare contacts, with a separate feed to the centre contact I could power LED’s on a mimic panel which I have done. This is the third plank/ module that I have used WIT control on with the same brand/ supplier of the DPDT switches, the first two without too much trouble. As for a diagram, okay, but, it is a straight forward red , green, green being the centre, and black layout.   Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Ah, thought so. Separate LED circuit or with cross overs to the frog curcuit? Just because the lights are working on one side does not mean the other is OK. Diagram would let us know what is happening. Pecil, ruler and paper, take a photo, post, job done!

Inexpensive slide switches are usually rated at 0.3A or often less. Get a short in the track circuit of around 2A and they act as fuses.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you again. I didn’t know about the ratings of the switches, by the way, the mimic panel is wired to another plank which is independent of the two that I am currently dealing with. When you say that the switches act as fuses, that isn’t happening as the short occurs without a Loco. Another thing that I began today, I have  been reconnecting the black and red wires on one track at a time, to their respective Buses, c/o Matt’s suggestion , so far so good, I hope to continue the “ good work “ shortly.    Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Another reply. “ Houston we have Lift off “ And I have eliminated a faulty DPDT, a thing the shop assistant said. “ Oh No it cannot be the DPDT “, “ Oh Yes it Can” , now that I have identified the problem, it may even be possible to utilise the reason for starting this thread,    the Peco asymmetric Three way point?   If my back and (Diogenes) okay  Dodgy Knees can last that long? Now if you could suggest the better range of DPDT Slide switches that are suitable for WIT Operation that won’t let me down and cause me so much grief? I would be obliged.Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

i am guessing you are using those Peco DPDT that strap on the back of a point motor Kevin?


Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.  I don’t understand what you mean. I purchased my DPDT Slide switches from an independent electronics store. As you no doubt have heard I did toy with the idea of Point Motors but I have stayed with “wire in tube “ . And this is the first DPDT that has given me a problem.     Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I see now Kevin no point motors just purely switches for the frogs. I cant really recommend any hopefully someone will know of some that will suit your needs.

Learning to use that nice multimeter you have may well assist you in finding if there is a fault with the switch you already own.

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thank you again Brian. Of course you are correct, but I suspected it was either one of the points or DPDT switches early on.  But if I knuckle down to it , seriously, I am certain that I can get my head around it.   Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Expect to pay around £4-£6 each for decent heavy duty slider DPDT switches. At some point it looks like you will be moving the controls to the edge of your scenic boards anyway, so perhaps time to think about a dedicated WIT with the switches underneath and the knobs on top or the sides. On

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.   Thank you again.    I don’t know if the position of the DPDT Slide switches are clear enough, but next time I will try to get close ups of them. The wire passes through the baseboard leaving the top side clear. As long as the switches don’t develop any more faults, they will do whilst I look for suitable replacements.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel, Ron, Brian, Petermac, and all interested parties.   Having “ Sorted Out “ ? the short circuits on the fiddleyard baseboard, using its own “power control panel “ as opposed to “jumpers from the Inglenook” . And it did have a fault,I have connected both baseboards together using the jumpers. Expecting to have a running session. .Strewth! the blessed short circuit is back.
Surely if I was to run a continuous bus, as far as necessary, it would work,. So why by connecting Red to Red, and 
Black to Black with plugs and sockets , it is just the same as continuous???  Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevib,

Yes, lurking between the tracks. Not ideal once you start adding buildings, trees, sheds. Easier to access and troubleshoot at the edge.

Nigel

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin if the short does not occur on both baseboards when they are separate ? If when you connect them together the short occurs immediately are your sure on the baseboard connections there is not a wire that is reversed somewhere on the connectors that is creating the short? 

I dont know if this is easy for you to do or not but would it be possible for you to take a photo of the baseboard connectors so we can perhaps see what wire is going to what

Brian

Last edited on Sat Apr 6th, 2019 04:32 pm by Briperran

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Brian's right Kevin.  If both "planks" work individually when disconnected, the short can only be in the connectors.

Are you sure both "planks" do work everywhere, over every bit of track when separated ?  Presumably you are testing each of the separated planks the same way and not having one "reversed"...................... ?

 Check for a stray track pin or other "conductor" - easily missed.  Somehow, you must have + connecting to - when you join the boards ............................as Brian said, a wayward wire could be enough or a blob of solder etc. etc.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

BCDR wrote: Hi Kevib,

Yes, lurking between the tracks. Not ideal once you start adding buildings, trees, sheds. Easier to access and troubleshoot at the edge.

Nigel
Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. Absolutely, but, I don’t intend to go down that road, until that is, I have debugged it 100%.    Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.   Thank you. That is the reason why I added a separate feed via a CPC , and once I identified the cause of the short, everything worked. The connectors are “Banana Plugs and Sockets “ wired direct via cables to the bus.Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So is everything now working as it should Kevin?  No shorts


Brian

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin if possible try leaving the jumper cables connected to board a (the one that has power going direct to it) but switch the jumpers around on the second board so jumper A goes to jumper B on the second board and jumper B goes to jumper A then see if you still have a fault ?  Even if you need to make up a couple of wires so that you can connect power across with the boards separated 
Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac Thank you for your reply. Yes, all tracks are alive and well connected, the trains run like clockwork.I don’t think that there can be any conductive elements, or no running. Best wishes Kevin 

gtmspyder
Full Member


Joined: Thu Sep 4th, 2014
Location:  Rotherham, Sth Yorks, United Kingdom
Posts: 133
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

If the trains are clockwork, you wont have much trouble with shorts other than the running time. :pedal
I'll get my coat, sorry :Red Card

Well done with your original problem, :pathead :Happy

I'm killing time waiting for some glue to dry on the new trestles.

Kind regards, 

BrianT.

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Petermac Thank you for your reply. Yes, all tracks are alive and well connected, the trains run like clockwork.I don’t think that there can be any conductive elements, or no running. Best wishes Kevin 

I'm confused Kevin - have you solved the short ?

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you. It would seem that there was two shorts? But when I tried the baseboards separately, because they each had an independent supply the fiddleyard didn’t show up. It is them gremlins again. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  Thank you for your reply. After a frustrating day looking for “ shorts  “. I had enough. Then I thought of that,  but it seems so illogical ( Sherlock Holmes quote) when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth? I have just been watching a1941 film with Arthur Askey, the Ghost Train.I will try again tomorrow.  Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin like Peter in am totally confused have you now sorted the shorts or not?

A simple yes i have or no i have not will suffice


Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian T .   Trestles? Funny thing is that I am thinking of buying trestles. Did you make your own?I have been considering trestles from ikea . Just to make the room look tidier? Famous last words? Originally I built four baseboards but they are almost redundant, except for a load of junk and tools. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.   When one has one short, which I had , it could hide another short, which it did? And when I fitted the fiddleyard with its own Powercab panel I could sort out the short. Then when I clamped them together I found the current short, no pun intended?  Confused? Well I am.   Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So just to clarify this we are still at the stage we were in your 45th post is this correct?

Just trying to get the stake back in the ground so we all can help you.


Brian

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Brian I think where we are is. . Kevin traced one fault to a DPDT switch on one separate board and cleared THAT fault so both boards when powered up with feeds from controller separately, work ok but when Kevin powers one board and connects the second board via jumpers he gets a dead short. . My theiry is crossed wires between the boards so hopefully after a good nights sleep Kevin will try switching the jumpers over on ONE board to see if that clears the dead short    :thumbs
Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.  Thank you. Yes. But of course I realise that the short must be on the connecting jumpers. But on both boards there are two wires , which as far as I can see are isolated, following an idea from Matt, as illogical as it sounds, I am going to reverse the jumpers tomorrow , just for a laugh.  Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thankyou Matt  Kevin seems we are back to clarity now hopefully in the morning when you switch the wires as suggested the problem will be resolved.

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian. But the illogical thing is black to red bus, that is why even this isn’t DC . But AC we have one red bus  with all the red droppers going to the red bus . And all the black droppers going to the black bus.  Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Brian. But the illogical thing is black to red bus, that is why even this isn’t DC . But AC we have one red bus  with all the red droppers going to the red bus . And all the black droppers going to the black bus.  Best wishes Kevin Yes you are correct Kevin but just do as Matt has told you in the morning and see if there is still a short when the boards are connected.

If there is no short we will all know straight away what the problem is

Brian

gtmspyder
Full Member


Joined: Thu Sep 4th, 2014
Location:  Rotherham, Sth Yorks, United Kingdom
Posts: 133
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Kevin sorry about my silly last post, sat here twiddling my thumbs with nowt much to do, I couldn't resist trying to be funny.The trestles I was waiting for the glue to dry on, were not trestles to support a layout, I am currently remodelling my Layout "Knottworthy Magna in 7mm 0/16.5", pictures on this site if you want to see. 

The layout has a trestle bridge over a modelled river, and the trestles were to support the bridge on the model, they stand all of 2"  (50mm) high and are made of modelling wood from the pound shop. :lol:

Hope you've got your problem sorted out now,

Regards,

BrianT.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.   Thank you. Yes I am going to do just that . Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian T.  Thank you. No, it is them flaming gremlins again .Best wishes Kevin 

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin

I have followed this thread somewhat from a distance and have come to realise that a certain amount of confusion arises when various topics are discussed inter-twined with each other.

The question of short circuits mixed with comments about trestles, scenery and old films has left me (and perhaps others) somewhat bamboozled.

Can I suggest that this thread simply concentrates (for now) on the question of the short circuits so that when someone asks a question and expects and answer (often just "yes" or "no") you simply give such an answer.  There is no need to try to make a reply witty or amusing - your electrical issues are a serious matter for you and the community is trying to give you serious support.  When asked for a "yes" or "no", just say "yes" or "no" please.

The recent run of posts asked whether you had sorted out the short circuits between the two boards and I must confess, despite a number of your replies, I am none the wiser.

If you are able, photos, diagrams and pictures often speak a thousand words.  Try drawing a picture or diagram, photograph it and post the photo if that is the easiest way around.

If you are asked a question, please answer JUST that question.  When the boards are running well, THEN we can start talking about tunnel mouths, scenery and all the other stuff.

There are  number of people all trying to help but you need to help them to help you.  We are all on your side here mate - I am sure that with some clear answers we can nail this and get you moving forward.

Kind regards

Barry

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry.  Thank you. Yes I agree with everything that you said. Let’s begin again. At first, I built a 4’x 14” Inglenook Puzzle. And believe it or not everything worked, no shorts. “Shunting to and fro”. That is a Yes!But, then along came the idea of running passenger trains, and another plank which clamped on to the Inglenook, and everything worked. But out of the blue, I began with the short circuits. And everything went to pot.    With the help of a Gentleman of this Parish, my Laptop is now working and I can at last post the photos that Members have requested.    Now I have got to the present. The Multimeter does work, but I think that it requires a new battery.
I have established that the current short circuit is at the rail gap between the baseboards and only occurs when the baseboards are connected. As far as diagrams or photos are concerned, I will take a photo of the underside of the baseboards and do a diagram, as best I can. Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So, to clarify Kevin -

You have 2 boards - Board A and Board B - never mind what's on them - they're just "boards" for now.

Board A runs perfectly with locos able to go everywhere and with points set in all directions.

Board B runs perfectly with locos able to go everywhere and with points set in all directions.

When you join Board A to Board B (with just 2 linking wires) you get a short circuit.

Is that correct - just "yes" or "no" please ..................................

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply. Yes that is correct. And the two wires ( Jumpers) one red and one black are wired directly from the bus to either a Banana Plug on A to a Banana Socket on B, sounds and looks straightforward.Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Wait Kevin you never mentioned the Banana. . You cant plug in a Banana ! It wont end well  :mutley
Ok first step I would try is as I mentioned. . . Switch over ONE  end of the connecting leads and see what that does

Cheers 

Matt

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

OK Kevin - we're getting somewhere now.

When you stand at the "front" of the boards (not connected), which rail is connected to your red bus - the "front" rail or the "rear" rail ?

Is it the same on both boards - i.e. "front rail (let's say) red" and "rear rail" (let's say) black ? 

Front or rear to red and the other to black isn't important but it must be the same on both boards.


Sorry, I crossed with Matt's post.  Do what he suggests first ..................................

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. Thank you for your reply. Was the:mutley banana comment meant as a joke? Banana Plugs and Sockets.I haven’t tried to swap the jumpers yet, but will when I return from the shopping. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac . Thank you. Getting somewhere ? I was in the cab with my cuppa waiting to make the return trip.Originally the Inglenook had the “ Black bus to the rear, simples, Black at the back! But then I reorganised it and the Black Bus is now at the front on both baseboards . And all the Red wires go to the red bus. And all the Black Wires go to the Black bus. Yes, back to the Sherlock Holmes quote? Even though it sounds illogical! Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I was always taught ' Eliminate the obvious then the improbable' and then rip it out and do it again  :brickwall
Switching the feed wires just eliminates the obvious. . Then eat the banana. . . Then we move on to photos of the underside to see the wiring. . . 

Black to the back right ?   That works fine working round the outside of an oval . . . But when you work from the front of an oval on one side then go to an access hatch in the middle of the layout and work on the same principle on the back of the oval things go horribly wrong !
    How do I know ?  Been there done that  :mutley  now I use a wagon with red on one side, black on the other and trundle it round the track as I wire up, simple but it works  :thumbs

Eliminate the simple then we can work on getting photos in here, but dont forget to eat that banana  :cool wink

Cheers

Matt


Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  Thank you for your analogy? My Planks/Modules, are end to end, no “going around the bend “ , just over Points/ turnouts . And bearing in mind that both are in the form of a tool box , there isn’t an “ access hatch “, And when I turn them over, I can see a red bus and a black bus with all the droppers soldered onto their respective buses. And even the jumpers soldered to their respective buses. Best wishes Kevin 

MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12343
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I'm going out on a limb here . . .

Is it possible that the blacks and the reds have inadvertently been interchanged (swapped), when the two planks were joined together?

That would cause a short circuit.  :roll:

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ok Kevin but when you connect them does one go through a 180% turn to conect to the other ? Instand reverse wiring
Are there points on both boards ?  If so do the red and black wires go to the same contact on your DPDT switches ?

I.E. board A red goes to contact 2 black goes to contact 4. . . Board B red goes to contact 2 black to contact 4 ?

Or on one board is it  Red 2 Black 4 but the other board Red 4 Black 2 ?  Doesn't matter on individual boards but soon as you connect... 

I'ts things like this we need to work through slowly to find a cure. Let me know when you have done step one. . Eat the bana. . . No thats step 2 :roll:

I'm trying to figure out what someone has done with the lighting and power wires on an old mainline diesel using multi coloured telephone wires so I have multi coloured spots before me eyes.  Red and black is easy peezy !!! :shock:


Cheers Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Max.  Thank you again. Not a “ Buckley’s “ . My buses go from end to end on opposite sides of the baseboard.I really do appreciate all the help and messages that I am getting. But I just cannot figure it out.
Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thats where my and Peters thoughts are I think Max  :thumbs

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

One step at a time mate, try reversing those wires and apply power and tell us what happens  :thumbs

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  Thank you again. I had thought of that myself ( changing over the Red and Black Wires  And when I swapped the wires, “ Crash,Bang, Wallop “ It didn’t like that at all. This may be incorrect? But my two independent bus wires go from end to end and at each end there is a staple banged into baseboard to support them. Soldered to the Red bus is a red ( Red Jumper) with the famous banana plug , likewise goes for the black. On the other board is a similar arrangement, but with matching sockets.

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So when you switched the wires round did your controller show the same fault ?

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I think to help everyone Kevin some photos of this wiring under the boards may well help especially these what you call bananas

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. Yes, as far as I can remember. Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Do you have points with DPDT switches on both boards ?

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. Yes.  Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ok, when your up to it upend both boards, and look at the wiring to the switches on each board, Do the red wires go to the same contacts on all switches on  both boards ? ( same thing for black wires)  At the same time take a few photos of both boards underneath, zoomed out and if possible zoomed in on the points/ switch wiring. I know this may be awkward if the switches are mounted on top of the boards with wires going through from underneath but pictures will help a lot.  if your around tomorrow we can work on uploading them here  :thumbs
Cheers

Matt

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Don't get hung up on the bus wires Kevin.  It's the connections from the rails to them that matters.  If the rear rail on both boards is designated "black", then do all the rear rails have black droppers connecting to the black bus - and visa versa for the red "rail/droppers".

It doesn't matter two hoots where the bus wires are - front or back - it does matter which rail (on the track) is "black" and which is "red" and that all the connections thereto are the right "colour" and from the corresponding bus.


Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac. Thank you. In a short while I am going to take some photos of the wiring. Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Petermac. Thank you. In a short while I am going to take some photos of the wiring. Best wishes Kevin


:thumbs

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

As would a faulty banana. That one can get a bit slippery.

Nigel

Edit: Forget that, a Banana plug only has one wire :oops:

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you. Brian has asked me “ what is a banana plug? Well of course I know how to use it and what it looks like, but, I don’t know how to answer the question. Would you please explain to Brian what one is.   Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Banana plug  

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So Kevin, I am assuming you wired board A like with red & black busses to banana plugs  & board B also the same way to banana sockets when resting against the wall ? Correct ?
Then when you turn the boards so B meets A, then of course there will be a short circuit  !!


Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Eloquently put!!  With an excellent diagram!!

Michael

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Of course a short circuit will not show up until you run a loco across the baseboard joins.

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ron I THINK Kevin is getting a short as soon as he connects the 2 boards together and turns the controller on ?
Not sure if he gets as far as running a loco ?    I think the fault shows up even if Kevin switches the wires over connecting from one board to the other 
  
Hopefully Kevin will post a response when he sees our posts

We will try and get some photos up tomorrow which should help  :thumbs

Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron.  One incarnation of the short was for the alarming flashier on the screen, without the presence of a Loco..Tonight I have taken photos of the wiring under the baseboards, but I cannot remember how to upload the SD disc onto the laptop. “My tiredness has got the better of me “ , weak excuse but very true. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. Your Avatar? Has got a strong resemblance to me and the way I am feeling, just in time for bed.Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

The Avatar Kevin ?  Thats old Barchester wandering the dusty corridors and hidden passage ways of YMRC  wandering through the cellars, rattling about in the attic, rummaging in cupboards, dusting  off and restoring old photos and fixing broken links. . . Shhhhh if you listen carefully you might just here him wandering about in the dead of night  :hmm

Gnight, sleep well tomorrow  is another day  :thumbs

Cheers


Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.    That just about sums me up. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply. But,  You got me wrong Ron. When the baseboards “A “ and “ B “ are lying in a line It is only then that ( looking from the underside) that the Black is at the back and the Red is at the front..
Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

How do you know everything is ok on the fiddle yard board Kevin, when it's not attached to the layout board, which board has the PCP panel attached to it?


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. I have another independent inglenook, which has its own PCP. And when I tested the fiddleyard, I borrowed that PCP and wired it in on a temporary basis. To carry out the test. Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I take it, it's disconnected now Kevin.

I was just think out loud and thought if you did still have a PCP on the fiddle yard board, it would make both boards work ok independently, but if one PCP was wired the other way around, they would short when put together.


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.   Yes I disconnected the PCP and returned it to the 9” wide Inglenook, a design that I borrowed from g0ibi ,just to see how I would get on with such a narrow plank. Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Mon Apr 8th, 2019 10:55 am by Passed Driver

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Interesting conundrum here. Normally when you install a second PCP for a second loconet controller, it is not a power source, not connected to the power bus and not capable of programming a decoder. Do you have a loconet cable (RJ12 with reversed ends) between the PCPs? Or did you just wire it to the bus? The reason why there are 2 sockets in the PCP is one for power/control, one for control.

That scenic break will get in the way of seeing what is going on, so perhaps moving the control panel to the middle and on the side and having a demountable shelf with crocodile connectors from the PCP to the bus might give you the sight lines. Or just having the PCP on the side in the middle? The flexible cable from the controller is good for at least 3 feet.

Why not take a break from poking around with the wires and draw the circuit diagram and take a photo? Then we can see what you have done and make pertinent suggestions. I have been following along and I think I understand. Maybe.

Even if you did inadvertently wire the second PCP opposite to the first it shouldn't affect operations as long as there were not 2 control units plugged in and they were not connected by loconet cables. Although thinking about it could as they would both be connected to the bus. Carry on and before long you will find yourself in power districts dealing with multiple independent power sources. With a short scenic board and a fiddle yard I doubt you need more than one PCP and one power controller. I have had my Powercab system running 4-6 4-foot modules using crocodile clips and one PCP.

Already said I think, but remove the second PCP and just connect the fiddle yard with bananas, having checked the polarity with the multimeter.


Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel .  Thank you. I will answer your question to the best of my ability?  But here goes. The PCP was borrowed from another Inglenook, as a temporary measure during a test, and returned directly after, to make certain that the fiddleyard was wired okay. My system is the NCE Powercab, the only cables I have are the ones that came with it.I have taken a couple of wiring photos, but, I have forgotten how to upload them to the laptop. But surely as both boards work individually, they should work via whatever type of plugs and sockets one chooses, whether it be the straightforward “ banana “ or any other type. Black to Black and Red to Red. Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

These PCP units you mention Kevin  i assume they are plug in points for your Powercab handheld?

Check the bus wires connections on them are not reversed as they would have worked individually ok but when you join the boards together that would cause a short.

The photos will help if you can  upload them.


Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian have you seen the “Banana Plug “ as illustrated by Ron??? Simples! Either one Red or Black Plug orone Black or Red Socket per Bus. I will load some photos soon, but, today I have been very busy with BT:off topic.who have made a # of my account , no account = no YMRC, sorry for going off topic.  Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Understood. Have a break, brew some tea, watch some ootoob.

Re Brian's comment. Connecting two PCP boards to the bus in what is the same sector could be an issue. Even with the correct polarity. I think the PowerCab has to be connected to the bus using 1 PCP. The PowerCab also expects the second board to be a signal only board connected to the PCP via a reversed RJ12 cable, and not attached to the power bus. Which is what a basic controller plugs into. Another PowerCab unit can be plugged in but only to the LocoNet socket.  I think. Have to check the manual.
Never tried it so just guessing. NCE would know. Bus power to 2 PCPs could be a no-no. The internal wiring could in fact reverse the polarity causing a fault/error message.

Nigel

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yes Kevin i saw the banana plug i understand what you mean now.

RE the PCP Nigel may well be on the right track there as you would probably connect them through loconet using a cat5 cable or whatever they use and the first one would only be connected to the bus wires. That to me sounds logical as S88 bus works in a similar manner. Im not a Powercab user so i would not know what exact connections they use.

Off topic
RE BT Kevin i have been trying to renew my broadband contract for 2 weeks now they are a nightmare to deal with for a communications company they are useless


Brian

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I think you have got it Nigel i looked on the NCE site  there is a diagram it shows 1 PCP connected to the bus and transformer power to it

The only connection between the 2 PCP boards is what they are calling a Powercab flat cable.

And no bus connection or  transformer power connection to the second PCP board.


Brian





BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Spot on Brian. The NCE web site says that 2 PCP units cannot be connected either by track or control buses.

"For this reason, you cannot move the Power Cab to different panel locations without a few changes to the layout. The reason for this is that the actual track power on the rails and the power from the wall transformer BOTH go through the Handset / Cab directly. If you unplug the Power Cab you have no track power and all locomotives will stop instantly. This also means that to use different panels and different locations you would have to move the track and wall power connections on the rear of panel each time."


"If you wish to use the Power Cab in two completely separate locations such as a work bench and a layout that can be done by having two P114 power supplies and two (PCP) power cab panels. one set in each location. The two locations cannot be electrically connected or have a connection via track."

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207811543-Moving-the-Power-Cab-to-a-different-panel-location

Kevin, If you did not disconnect the first PCP from the power bus and simply wired in the second PCP to the fiddle yard via banana junctions that is probably what is/was causing the problem. If you want two Cab throttles what you need is a UTP (Universal Throttle Panel) and a second controller - Cab06 Engineer - and a length of RJ12 reversed to connect them. That way you can control the yard and the scenic part separately. One in the middle would suffice though. Get 2 cab holders and attach them to the sides.

Nigel


Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Did anybody read post #110 :???:


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. But, But, But, ( that is my impersonation of an outboard)I keep repeating myself. When I wired the “ borrowed ”PCP to the fiddleyard, there was no other connection,
It was an exercise to see how the fiddleyard worked by itself and to prove that there was no short circuits present.
The PCP hs been reconnected to the four foot by nine inch Inglenook. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. That is a good question. But today Matt has come up with an idea, which I tried.I have desoldered both red wires to the points on the “ slave board “ connected the boards together, electronically, 
and no flashing on the handset. But, and a big but it is. What is the next step. When I mentioned the previous problem I had with the DPDT Slide switches to the supplier ( over the counter, face to face as it was) he said that it shouldn’t matter which way around the switches are facing.  Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I take it that by 'slave board' you mean the fiddle yard board Kevin.

If you've disconnected one side of the feed to the points and there's no short, it sounds like the red and black are the wrong way round, probably on the slide switch, but we really need a picture.

The DPDT slide switches will work whichever way around they are, as long as they're wired up correctly.


Ed


BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

So no bananas between the 2 boards? With 2 PCP units on the same bus? Yes/no and yes/no.


If not then that eliminates that. Back to the drawing board. 


If you go over the track of the fiddle yard with the multimeter are there any issues?  


If you connect a DC powerpack? ditto.


Are any of the points connected to a sllde switch? Ditto.


Does black on the scenic connect to black on the fiddle? Red to red?


Do they have the same polarity?


I think I would remove all the wiring, disassemble the track and start from scratch, testing as I went as recommended by others. Including all the points. Any stray wires underneath? 


Just to make sure. When you connect the 2 boards with bananas there is a short? And when the fiddle is powered in isolation there is still a short?


If you haven't got the multimeter up and running yet you will be working in the dark. Although that light circuit you have will help. Not with polarity though unless it is an LED.


Nigel








Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. Swapping the red and black wires? I did try that already, and it seemed worse. Strange thing about it is that when I stopped messing about with the asymmetric three way point, it did run for a while, but a different bunch of problems arose, and that is where I am today.   Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Try and answer with yes or no Nigels questions Kevin.

if you dont know some of the answers say i dont know

Hopefully Matt will contact you at some point to sort your photos


Brian

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin ok good progress, lets stop and take stock
1)  you have 2 boards  Master (scenic) and slave  (fiddleyard)

2) Master has a pcb. . . Slave doesn't

3) each board has 2 points placed toe to toe

4) both boards work ok independently but powering the slave from the master via banana plugs shows a fault

5) if you disconect the red wires from both points on the slave and power up the fault disapears


All correct ?

My next suggestion, get pen and paper and do the following

1) check that all four DPDT switches are fitted the same way round

2) Draw all four switches mark them Master 1 master 2 slave 1 and slave 2  (draw large so you can mark info around each one)

3) draw an arrow next to each switch showing the physical direction each switch faces ( all 4 the same way ? Or 2 left 2 right ?)

4) Now add in the wiring information showing where each coloured wire connects to each switch

Then we can move on throm there

Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. You do ask some questions, which are mostly outside my scope. My Bachmann entry level DC power pack ? Used to work fine but during the course of this thread it has given up the ghost.I will have to purchase a new battery for the multimeter. As I have stated both the baseboards work fine individually it is only when they are wired together that “ sparks fly “. When I had a similar problem in 2016 I had a lot of help from YMRC, and then I found a homemade device on line, to check polarity, with three wires, one with a probe , and a green wire and a red LED connected to it, likewise  a Red wire with a Green LED connected to it. It is still online and it is better to watch the video, than have me try to explain how it works.  Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Facing points? Is that the issue? Wiring up off the board, red to left, blue to write, hmm, nice cup of tea, looks good, jumper wires nicely in place, frog wired, job done! And then placing the points on the board:




Is this what has happened? Would that explain it? Those with more expertise than me jump in. Now I know why I don't bother powering frogs by keeping them isolated but live.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you. The tail ( the narrowest end ) of each point is next to each other, but not directly, is that an issue???  My frogs 🐸 are live, fed via Left Hand and the Right Hand Bus Wires, if you know what I mean?Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin you mean they are like the bottom of the 2 drawings Nigel posted?

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.   Yes.  Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Brian/Nigel

If both boards work ok when powered separately, how could there be a problem with the point wiring when Kevin connects the boards together quest:

Am I missing something :???:



Ed

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ed all we know at the moment is with the boards connected together there is a fault. If Kevin disconnects the red wires from both points on ONE board the fault disappears. I've asked Kevin to draw a diagram of the wiring of all the point switches and once we gave that I'll get Kevin to photograph it and then we will get some photos uploaded. Then it will be all heads together to see if we can find where the fault is ?
Cheers

Matt

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

You are correct Ed   I think Nigel is trying to build up an overall picture of exactly what Kevin has where.

Brian

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,


There could be serious consequences if you wired them like that.

Don't panic Captain Mannering, don't panic...

It's Multimeter time!!! Turn that ootoob off, it's mostly full of questionable or dubious advice meant IMO to deliberately mess up whatever you are doing. Project Binky and Martin excepted. Get down the shops and buy a new battery. Support the Chinese economy. Might help Hornby's QC issues.

Order a decent basic and fused DC controller, essential even if you are DCC. Better to wreck one of those than that Powercab which does not have any surge protection. Whatsoever. Nada. Zilch. Rien. Nichts. Nihil. Nowt.

Nigel

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Barchester wrote: Ed all we know at the moment is with the boards connected together there is a fault. If Kevin disconnects the red wires from both points on ONE board the fault disappears. I've asked Kevin to draw a diagram of the wiring of all the point switches and once we gave that I'll get Kevin to photograph it and then we will get some photos uploaded. Then it will be all heads together to see if we can find where the fault is ?
Cheers

Matt
Which red wires on what points quest:

Without a picture, we're all working in the dark exclam:


Ed

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

BCDR wrote: Hi Kevin,

There could be serious consequences if you wired them like that.

Don't panic Captain Mannering, don't panic...

It's Multimeter time!!! Turn that ootoob off, it's mostly full of questionable or dubious advice meant IMO to deliberately mess up whatever you are doing. Project Binky and Martin excepted. Get down the shops and buy a new battery. Support the Chinese economy. Might help Hornby's QC issues.

Order a decent basic and fused DC controller, essential even if you are DCC. Better to wreck one of those than that Powercab which does have any surge protection.

Nigel

Me give up :thud



Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

BCDR wrote: Hi Kevin,

There could be serious consequences if you wired them like that.

Don't panic Captain Mannering, don't panic...

It's Multimeter time!!! Turn that ootoob off, it's mostly full of questionable or dubious advice meant IMO to deliberately mess up whatever you are doing. Project Binky and Martin excepted. Get down the shops and buy a new battery. Support the Chinese economy. Might help Hornby's QC issues.

Order a decent basic and fused DC controller, essential even if you are DCC. Better to wreck one of those than that Powercab which does have any surge protection.

Nigel
Hi Nigel What serious consequences? Wired like what? The YouTube polarity tester, worked for me before.Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. The red wire from the DPDT Slide switches to the red bus. Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Me thinks we all need to wait for Matt to make contact with kevin so the photos Kevin has taken can be uploaded so then we can see what is what as at the moment we are all working in the dark as Ed has said.

Brian

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides



I am not adding anything here as Kevin is in safe hands but here is (I think) Kevin's trackplan in case it helps.  The photos he posted suggest that the two lines of track are not conected.

I think the power feeds should be at F1 and F2 - if not, then that might be the fault?????

Over and out

Barry

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

So what were the results? If you did wire them like that I think that as soon as you connect the board to the main bus the polarity of the frog is wrong. The track rails couldn't care less. You would need to swap bus the wires going  in into the switch. If you remove the frog wires from the switches does it still short?


Some pictures and diagrams would help, otherwise it's difficult to understand what is going on.


As I and others have said, start again from the beginning, testing as you go every time track or point is laid.


Nigel

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi guys,, only had a brief call with Kevin today as had some family matters to attend to and time got away from me,  (me brain hurts lol) but at least we have some idea it might be point related. Kevin and I will have a go tomorrow if possible and see if we can get some photos sorted
Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry.  That is spot on, but, I am uncertain as how I should proceed , as the power ( PCP ) is on that board.Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Barry Miltenburg wrote:

I am not adding anything here as Kevin is in safe hands but here is (I think) Kevin's trackplan in case it helps.  The photos he posted suggest that the two lines of track are not conected.

I think the power feeds should be at F1 and F2 - if not, then that might be the fault?????

Over and out

Barry

Hi Kevin,


Thanks to Barry for the plan. This is where it gets interesting - how did you wire it? You have in essence 4 power districts (blocks in DC)  2 on each board - that really should be wired separately with one common wire and 4 separate wires with circuit breakers, both connected to the PCP. That way each district is separate and a short in one will not affect the others. Or the Powercab.


Nigel






Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I've asked Kevin to carry out the same experiment on the right hand board points as he did on the left,  awaiting results
Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

two photos of wiring






Kevin

TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 295
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin wow! Looks like the inside of a BT phone exchange box!
All I'd recommend is to not have all of those wires exposed and once you are happy with bits insulate them with tape.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris. Thank you very much.  Where possible I use heat shrink tube. But the bare wires scenario is down to the fact that I have been faffing around too much rewiring over again trying to locate the fault , which only occurs when the two baseboards are clamped together. When it is up and running again I will insulate all the bare wires.Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

That looks... interesting. As you have WIT for the points all that is track plus connections to the DPDT switches for the frogs. You have a lot of bare metal. This just might the be an opportune moment to start with a clean board and plan it out using power districts and some short protection for the Power Cab.

What gauge wire are you using? How did you color code the bus and droppers? I see red coming off black, red coming off red, black coming up off blue..red and blue look to be the bus wires as they are kept in place with ring screws. Any reason why the PCP is in the inside rather than on the side wall?

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris. Thank you very much. But, there’s more, a new fault, the “ telephone like plug “ doesn’t want to stay in position, because the plastic type spring/ latch doesn’t clip any more, but due to circumstances beyond my control my bank card has been cut up.  Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Thu Apr 11th, 2019 08:58 pm by Passed Driver

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you very much.  The Blue wire is the new Black and the Brown Wire is the new Red.  Ergo black to blue, and red to brown, I don’t know anything about gauge, but, the bus is heavier than the droppers. The heavier  Red and Black Wires are cable laid? which is more flexible/suitable for the jumpers , are soldered to the jumpers and, are single strand Brown and Blue and “ never the twain shall meet “ .   Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,


Thanks. Pretty logical if unconventional, whatever works best for you. NCE recommend 16 or 18 gauge for the bus for a 2 Amp system and a small layout, 20-24 for the droppers. It is important, as the thinner the wire the greater is the voltage drop. Best to keep droppers the same length.

Difficult to tell from the photos, are the switches powered from the bus or the rails? Grey is the wit?

I gather you do not have a circuit breaker to protect the Power Cab.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you very much for your reply. The DPDT Slide switches are fed by green wires. “ inscrutable “ the grey wires in fact are “ Wire in Tube “ for Point Control “ . I did originally intend to have all the droppers the same length, as for droppers?  every length of track has at least one dropper and of course the points/turnouts.Loss of power? that is why the bus is a heavier cable.  Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

I think you meant that the feed to the frog was green. I see red and black going in.

I just caught your comment re the plug. This is the NCE cable? That is not a standard RJ12 telephone/CAT cable, and is custom made for NCE to carry 2 amp. You could put a new end on, but it will be cheaper to get a replacement unless you can get the loan of a crimper.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Chris. Thank you very much. But, there’s more, a new fault, the “ telephone like plug “ doesn’t want to stay in position, because the plastic type spring/ latch doesn’t clip any more, but due to circumstances beyond my control my bank card has been cut up.  Best wishes Kevin Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply.  The  “Telephone like plug” comment was for anyone that is unfamiliar with the NCE Powercab set up. In my pursuit of short circuits, my wiring that is under the baseboard may look like a telephone 📞 exchange? but I can assure yourself and any interested parties that the Green Wires have remained constant and do control the points via the DPDT Slide switches . Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I seem to remember Kevin, a few posts back you said the boards don't short when connected together with the red wires to the switches disconnected (de-soldered).

Points to there being a fault having developed in one or other (or both) switches.

You've probably already done this, but for clarity, you can check the switches with your multimeter.

With the multimeter set to 2000 ohms (resistance), if you touch the probes on something that has no electrical connectivity you'll get a 1 on the display.

In this case air.



If you touch something that will pass a electric current, in this case a piece of rail, you'll get readings on the display. They may well jump about and keep changing, but the display won't stay on 1.



If you take your multimeter and touch the center connection of a slide switch with one probe and then touch the left hand connection with the other probe, you'll get either a 1 or some sort of reading.

If you leave one probe on the center connection and then move the probe from the left hand connection to the right hand connection, you should then get the opposite reading from what you got when touching the left hand connection. (i.e either a reading or 1).

That is, one connection should show a reading and the other one should just show 1.

If both the left and right hand connections give a reading, the switch is faulty.

Don't know if this helps, but it can be used all around the layout. Anywhere where two bits of rail are isolated with a IRJ should show 1 when the probes are touching the rails each side of the IRJ.



Ed


Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. I have seen something about Multimeters before, but this is another way of explaining it. I did recently purchase a Duracell 9 volt battery so it should be good? But I couldn’t make any sense of it, I will put the battery in in the Multimeter again, and try your method to see if I get similar results and report back.As Nigel said they all look very similar.   Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Good clear explanation Ed. At the moment where we are. . . Both boards work fine independently
Connect them together and you get a fault  

If you disconect the red wire from any one point you still have the fault (doesn't matter which one)

If you discontect the red wire on the SECOND point on that particular board the fault goes away

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

It's the same multimeter as yours Kevin, just a different colour.

Disconnect the Powercab (if it isn't already) before you test the switches, and as you test each one, then slide the switch (i.e. change the point) and check that the opposite connection now has a reading and the other shows 1.

Matt. I need to ponder that. Very odd that the fault only goes away only after disconnecting both point switches.

Suggests the feed, but it won't harm to eliminate each individual component in Kevin's set-up.

(By hook or by crook, we'll get him going)


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  I followed your example, whether it is the battery or not? at first it was on zero, then it was jumping around just like you said. But now the display is fading, perhaps, shortly I had better purchase a new battery and from a more reliable source.  Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Think they just 9v PP3 Kevin, should be able to get one in the local supermarket.

Once you've tested the switches when you've got a new battery, I'll post on testing the points.


Ed

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I'll post this now Kevin, before I forget.

To test the points.



With the point set in the straight ahead direction as shown, and the multimeter set to 2000 ohms resistance as before.

With the multimeter probes touching A and B you should get a reading.
With the multimeter probes touching B and C you should get a 1
With the multimeter probes touching B and D you should get a reading.
With the multimeter probes touching B and E you should get a 1

Then change the point and check again, all the readings should be reversed i.e A and B will get a 1 and B and C will show a reading etc.


Ed

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Unless you leave the multimeter on, a fresh battery will last months. Ed's pictures just show what I explained to you some time ago.

I can only see one green wire coming from the slide switches, plus what looks like 4 other wires going in. Labeled 1 and 2 on the baseboard.

You really should get that power/control cable connector repaired or get a new one from the UK supplier, especially if you leave it in such an inaccessible location.

A note of warning for you (and anybody else) about the base NCE Power Cab system. The Power Cab needs to be protected. All it has is an automatic short reset that will burn out from overheating with repeated shorts. Unless you have a circuit breaker installed once you have a short you need to immediately disconnect the Power Cab and start hunting. Only reconnect it when the problem has been resolved. Using the Power Cab to see whether the short was corrected is not the way to go.

Because of the low amperage of the base Power Cab system (1.7-2 amp) you are essentially restricted to the NCE CB6 (6 power districts, 1 amp each district,  light bulb technology, or build you own from car interior light bulbs) or a DCC Specialties PSX-1 (1 power district, electronic) that can trip around 1 amp. They are around $40 here. A PSX4 (4 districts) is around $130. The CB6 can power 6 power districts, so you can easily identify and isolate where the short is taking place. It is a sound investment, as NCE will not cover track shorts under their warranty. That's why the multimeter is essential, as is checking every inch/cm of track before powering up again. If you know where the short happened it saves a lot of time.

With 2 separate track systems each split by a module junction and that are not interconnected, but are powered using one Power Cab, they really should be treated as power districts (blocks in DC) and wired accordingly so that the investment in the Power cab DCC system is protected. NCE make all of this abundantly clear in their literature. In your case it would make sense to have 4 districts, 2 on each module.

Good opportunity for you to rewire to best practice  with respect to wire gauge and consistent colors (for the bus, droppers and switches), power districts, circuit breaker protection. Otherwise you could well be "faffing" around trying to get things running rather than playing trains, and creating even more multicolored spaghetti. I doubt if I would remember what wire goes where. 
My plank which is currently being wired has a CB6 and 3 districts for the DCC side  (2 for the DC side if I can juggle the wiring  on the CB6) and it's only 5 feet long with a 3 foot fiddle yard. And every inch of track is being checked before any power runs through it. Even then it will only get DC to start with.

Keep us posted.

Nigel






Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you. I think that I should have kept to DC . But as I am now how do I progress to four districts? And anything else that I need for protection. One thing that I would like to mention, the droppers consist of “ layout “ wire as supplied by the well known company Hattons, whether they have made a mistake or not I don’t know. I bow to your superior railway knowledge. And if you would show me how I should proceed I would be grateful. Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

I don't have the luxury of superior knowledge, I leave that to experts. Electrickery is not my forte, but when NCE recommend something I usually pay attention. It is there for a reason. Best practices are usually common sense. Bus wire needs low resistance, use the appropriate gauge/diameter. Keep stoppers short, they are thinner with more resistance. Color code the wiring and keep it standard. Otherwise you will at some point wire it up incorrectly. Keep the wiring neat and tidy, use those write on labels that electricians use. Draw track plans and wiring plans. Update often. Use the multimeter to test, not the Power Cab. Both the NCE and Digitrax websites have a wealth of information that is tried and tested. Those are the systems I am familiar with. Unlike some ijit on ootoob doing it 'is way!

I have operated with DCC for over 15 years now, I have never bothered with DC, except for that layout in the 1960's. If in doubt get advice and help before, not after.



Nigel

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin, I think a new battery and carry out Ed's tests are the way forward. I wouldn't over complicate things at the moment until you find the fault. I would certainly look to get a repacement cable as Nigel mentioned.
Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  Thank you for your reply.  Regarding my current battery, or lack of current? I do intend to more attention to where and when I purchase the replacement. I grew up with the traditional colours , like Majority of English people, ie Red= live , Black= Neutral , and of Plain Green = Earth. And I wish we stayed put , as a separate country and that England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 kept their own Imperial Weights and Measures , and Colour Coded Wiring . Thank God we kept our own currency.Almost all of that has changed but I can get on with matching Red wire to Brown wire etc etc . Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. I have said this before, “ I never seem to read anything all the way through “ and I am not proud of this fact. Although I have been able to read and write for a number of years. But AFAIK I have never wired a cross/ short circuit, as I have already stated,” each plank/ module works by itself “ it is only when the two are wired together that it goes wrong “. There is another thing, when I began my wiring, most if not all of it was labelled, alas not with a proper label, I fold over a piece of masking tape and write on that, colour coded number or letter. Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So when the two boards are together, the red bus wire on one board connects to the red bus wire on the other ? That is same colour to same colour.

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Matt.  Thank you for your reply.  Regarding my current battery, or lack of current? I do intend to more attention to where and when I purchase the replacement. I grew up with the traditional colours , like Majority of English people, ie Red= live , Black= Neutral , and of Plain Green = Earth. And I wish we stayed put , as a separate country and that England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 kept their own Imperial Weights and Measures , and Colour Coded Wiring . Thank God we kept our own currency.Almost all of that has changed but I can get on with matching Red wire to Brown wire etc etc . Best wishes Kevin 

And I am glad that we Down Under changed our current from pence, shillings & pounds to Decimal as we did with weights & measures.  Imperial mixture is real  PITA- give me metric like my fingers.

Even the UK went decimal currency.

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

You asked, here it is:

,

Based on Barry's track plan. Green is the scenic break. This about as easy as it gets (it can be made a lot more complicated) as you only have 4 power sectors. The PCP is now in the side, connected to the circuit breaker, in this case an NCE CB6, or you could use a 4 circuit electronic one from DCC Specialities. or 2 2 circuit ones. Use 14-16 gauge (1.63, 1.3mm diameter) from the PCP to the CB6, 18-20 gauge (1, 0.8mm) links to terminal blocks, then 20-22 gauge (0.8, 0.65mm) droppers to the track and switches, etc.  I used red and black, use what ever takes your fancy but keep it consistent. Using terminal blocks means no stripped insulation, and keeps things neat and tidy. You would need 4 connectors between the 2 boards, use a Molex or similar, or even Power Poles.

Do some research and reading on circuit breakers, power sectors and their application in DCC. The CB6 is meant to work with the Power Cab, when there is a short it is protected and the sector affected lights up on the circuit breaker. The DCC Specialties units are much more flexible.

Nigel


BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. I have said this before, “ I never seem to read anything all the way through “ and I am not proud of this fact. Although I have been able to read and write for a number of years. But AFAIK I have never wired a cross/ short circuit, as I have already stated,” each plank/ module works by itself “ it is only when the two are wired together that it goes wrong “. There is another thing, when I began my wiring, most if not all of it was labelled, alas not with a proper label, I fold over a piece of masking tape and write on that, colour coded number or letter. Best wishes Kevin 


Hi Kevin,


Then you clearly have reversed the polarity between the boards. Check it out with the multimeter.


Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply. Yes, that is correct. As an addendum, a well respected member of YMRC did a thread and I followed that advice. Which with my use of colour coded wire went wrong, causing the bus wires to be Brown and Blue, and the dropper wire to be Red and Black. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you for your message. Did you know that the UK was the first country to introduce decimalisation?But we couldn’t get on with it.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. All this good advice goes right over my head. But as always I will study it, which reminds me, put “Toner Cartridges “on my shopping list, I have had advice about 1156 automotive lamps for short circuit protection, which does look good if I could use it? an idea that I first saw online and I couldn’t understand it then. In actual fact I have had so much conflicting advice, I don’t know my hand from my elbow. To put the record straight, the PCP is under the baseboard with the wires emerging through a hole behind the scenic break.Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Sat Apr 13th, 2019 08:09 am by Passed Driver

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Ron. Thank you for your message. Did you know that the UK was the first country to introduce decimalisation?But we couldn’t get on with it.  Best wishes Kevin 

Kevin

Decimal measurements in 1585 by a Flemish mathematician
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimalisation#Decimal_measurements

Decimal currency    not by the UK but by Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimalisation#Europe

Decimal fractions were first developed and used by the Chinese in the end of 4th century BC,[25] and then spread to the Middle East and from there to Europe.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply. I was thinking along the lines of a “ Florin “ which became “ Two Bob “ a tenth of £1.00 . And was still in circulation 1967. Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi guys although we are getting great help, suggestions and information put forward by members I think you will all agree we are going round in circles in regards to the wiring ?  And i think Kevin is probably suffering information overload :shock:   One of our members has aranged to visit Kevin sometime next week so they can put their heads together, brandish a multimeter in anger and hopefully find the pesky fault. Until then I've suggested to Kevin he ignores the wiring and maybe start planning  what hes going to do scenery wise  :thumbs

Cheers

Matt

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

That's an excellent idea Matt.

With information flying at him from everywhere, I'm not surprised he's confused - a total overload !

Let's all wait until we hear from whoever it is who's brandishing the multimeter.

Clear your brain Kevin and think about those far away hills and babbling brooks ....................... :thumbs

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your support and patience. I do own a Multimeter, but, when I went into Morrisons to purchase a new battery, I didn’t check the sell by date . What a silly billy I am? That is a good idea but no one to go with and when one reaches my age, the girl’s are not after ones body. I will just have to dream of my trains running “to and fro” . Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your very thorough and considered reply. I have been sitting here meditating it . I f I had studied the Powercab manual before I set off on the road to “ Plank Success “ presumably I would have been running, shunting trains on my extended Inglenook by now. Would your proposal have saved me all this faffing around ?
I have googled “ circuit breakers for model railways “ and it would appear that the mere mention of circuit breakers in the same sentence as model railways results in “ Automation and  Computers “ even though with the work of Matt, a Gentleman of this Parish, I now have my laptop back working, I would rather keep my “ Very small Planks/ Modules “ working in the traditional way, manually  . So if I can find more information on the subject, that doesn’t include JMRI or any other automation and it doesn’t “ Cost me an Arm and a Leg “ and simplifies the Wiring . Then that could work for me.   Best wishes Kevin 


PS. There is one thing missing on the plan, wires going to every length of track, necessary for DCC.

Last edited on Mon Apr 15th, 2019 07:38 am by Passed Driver

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Missing wires? Add as required from the power bus terminal blocks. Thats what the big arrows are for. Run the bus to the ends if you want. Terminal blocks mean no soldering into the bus. Keeps things near and tidy. I showed one terminal for 2 wires, you can easily use one for each wire. Wire one side to power in with jumpers, use the other side for out. As long as you use the right diameter cable a dropper every 6 feet/ 2 meters of straight track is fine, add more for every point.

Circuit breaker. Most trip at more than the NCE PowerCab puts out. I have found two. The NCE unit, car bulb technology, 6 districts, which limit a short to 1amp, which apparently is ok for the control unit, and DCC Specialties, PSX series, which trips the short off at 1.27amp. DCC Concepts sell this. Out of stock at the moment. There are other UK dealers. The Power Cab just resets after a few seconds when shorted, and will self destruct through overheating if allowed to continue.

Both units are around $30 here. £34 in the UK. I am trying the DCC Specialties one, the layout will be one district, they do a combined circuit breaker and autoreverser, which I will probably use for the turntable instead of the Digitrax relay model.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you very much. I do use terminal strips/ blocks on my planks/ modules for convenience, but, I understand that some Modellers frown upon them because the wires can become loose. I have been watching YouTube videos again, and one layout had surface mounted circuit breakers under a Signal Box which lit up like a Christmas tree when there was a short, but I cannot find it again. It would be more convenient to have the PCP surface mounted except for the fact that when I planned the layout there wouldn’t have been enough space for it to fit under the lid when closed .  Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Tue Apr 16th, 2019 08:41 pm by Passed Driver

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

Err, that is exactly what I suggested. Recess the board and cover it with perspex. Or mount underneath and run fiber optics to a panel. Drill a few holes for ventilation. If you use the DCC Specialities one you can wire in lights, bells, klaxons.

As long as you keep the controls in the middle rather than to the side you will always be doing it the hard way.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.   Thank you again. As usual I am always keen to get started. Before I have a proper plan. But now I am beginning to learn, and it would be a wrench to dismantle my first plank/ module and begin again. If I can get my act together, I intend to assemble a small platform, either a staff halt or a passenger halt.I may even have a Goods shed or a Loco shed. Once the wiring is sorted.  Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Tue Apr 16th, 2019 09:02 pm by Passed Driver

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

This minor. Major is when you bin the lot out of frustration, or take the sledge hammer to it all. Call it rationalization and and optimization of the space. Sometime down the road you will rue not putting the controls on the side.

One of the reasons you should never fix track permanently until it is tested and working. Even then track can come up and be relaid, wiring redone, new scenery, whatever.

One of the reasons I never glue the top to the base. It can be easily changed for a new one.

Good luck with the rewiring.

Nigel


Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  In a perfect World? Which this isn’t . Meanwhile back on my Inglenook Junction, it was built as a goods yard with space for sheds, huts, water cranes, coal cattle dock, horse stables, and whatever else, and it was well run in and tested. Then I started faffing around with a fiddleyard and scenic break.  Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Wed Apr 17th, 2019 07:18 am by Passed Driver

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed     Barry has done the business. We now have trains running. With all my soldering and desoldering? It looks like that I have fried the switch contacts (I prefer fried rice). Now apart from dirty tracks trains are running on both boards and from Inglenook to fiddle yard . Crossing over all the points, Best wishes  Kevin

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

That is good news Kevin and thanks Barry.

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

:doublethumb

Knew it would get fixed eventually, well done Barry :thumbs



Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  You may have read that Barry came over and fixed the problem, Yippee!. I used my laptop today, but the lpad is more convenient.  Best wishes Kevin 

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi all

As it turned out, nothing wrong with the wiring, just a switch that had been fried by an enthusiastic soldering iron!!  Luckily, the switch was 2-pole so I was able to simply move the wires to the other contacts and we were good to go.

Kevin's 08 is a lovely thing with sound and slow running - almost had me converted............. :mrgreen:

I left Kevin contemplating the joys of ballasting before starting on the scenery based around two lovely Noch tunnel mouths he has.

Barry

Longchap
Full Member


Joined: Wed Mar 25th, 2015
Location:  Saumur, France
Posts: 1558
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Well done Barry from everybody at YMRC and also a most honerable mentionm to you Kevin for not getting your wires crossed!
 
    
        'WIRING GURU'

Enjoy running trains and have fun with the scenery and buildings.

Bill

Last edited on Fri Apr 19th, 2019 03:23 pm by Longchap

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry.  Thank you very much for your help. :doublethumb:HappyI had been :brickwall . Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Bill   Thank you for your best wishes. Now onto Ballasting etc, but i must keep my drivers cap on to keep my hand in . Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Well done Barry - you deserve a pint and in fact, if I lived  nearer, I'd treat you to one.  As I don't................ ...... :roll: :lol:

Frying those switches is easily done.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you for support but I think that it was being over zealous with the soldering iron, plus the fact that the switches are on the cheap side and maybe could have gone wrong at any time ?  Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Barry, your a star  :thumbs  not sure just how many times a fried switch was mentioned as a possibility, but a bit of testing was definately what was needed ( hope you gave Kevin a quick lesson in multimeter use  ;-) )
Kevin the Ipad is definately more convenient but how about re sizing and posting those Photos ? ? ?

Don't worry I'll keep on keeping on bashing you about the bonce till you can do it in your sleep !

For now just enjoy running some locos and thinking about scenery   :hmm

Once again thanks for stepping up Barry, much apreciated

Cheers

Matt

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Barry, thanks for stepping up and trouble shooting.


Nigel

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Woohoo!   Kevin has his trains running!  Genuinely, only here would there have been so much patience and help.  Well done Barry.  Now Kevin, lets see some of that scenery develop!

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  As you said, I did test, it was a DPDT Slide Switch. And I think that it was my over enthusiasm to get a through service and playing trains again that was the problem. I will still be using my camera/ laptop duo to add, when the time comes, photos to the gallery. All I need to do is find or remember the correct passwords for all my devices.Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Sat Apr 20th, 2019 06:35 am by Passed Driver

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael I am right chuffed with Barry’s work today, all I have to do now is Ballasting, ground cover, backdrop etc etc etc great joy. Best wishes Kevin 

Spurno
Owner/Webmaster.


Joined: Tue Aug 14th, 2012
Location: Torquay, United Kingdom
Posts: 4146
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Barry for helping Kevin with his wiring problem.It's what this forum is all about.Great result.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Alan.  Great Forum, and Great People willing to assist. Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Well done Barry really good of you to go and give Kevin some hands on help and make him a very happy man now.


Brian

TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 295
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hurray! Glad you’ve got things running now Kevin. Well done to Barry for fixing it too. 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris.  Thank you, and thank goodness for Barry, the fun of finishing the job lies ahead. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian. And the findings? I was over zealous with my soldering, I fried the connections on one side of the switch on one side, thank goodness that I purchased DPDT, Barry did an excellent job, I would have been testing from now until doomsday.    Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Time for ballasting now Kevin that will keep you occupied for a few days.
At least you know with Barry helping you everything is as it should be and you had wired it properly you were only  i bit overenthusiastic soldering the switch.
With Barry visiting you it sorted it if he had not kindly done that trying to sort it in this thread it could have been a very long time until it was resolved.

Brian

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides



Whilst I was over with Kevin the other day I took a couple of photos to show "base camp" as it were - this is the start point.  The two "planks" are actually plywood cases with hinged lids and carrying handles.  The plywood top easily takes track pins and the lift up lid makes a great backscene.  You can see the divider between the two boards - a hinged arrangement that folds neatly into the lid when not in use and adds stability to the lids when opened and engaged on the captive bolt set into the surface of the fiddleyard board.

On the left is the connector for the controller inputs with a nice long lead so this can be mounted where the "banana" pluigs are - between the baseboard joint and the scenic break.

Kevin might be too modest to say but this is a strong base and I am sure that people will continue to support him as he leaps off the top of the scenic cliff (as it were) and starts with the green stuff!!

As an interesting aside, spending 10 minutes driving the "Gronk" up and down with its slow running and range of sounds, honks and hisses made we wonder on the way home whether I could build myself a DCC-sound plank with that bit of spare plywood in the garage.....................

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry.  Thank you very much . Well said, I am pleased with all the assistance that I have had from the Forum, but I am  especially grateful to you for giving up your time to get me, an “old codger” back on the road. Best wishes Kevin PS. I have learned a new term today, “ Gronk “ .

Last edited on Sat Apr 27th, 2019 08:48 am by Passed Driver

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yes, that is a very clever and wonderfully constructed baseboard.  I like how it is easy to fold and put away, but then can come to life when it is opened up.  I assume that a back scene can be fitted that won't be damaged when the lid closes.  Otherwise a back scene fitted to hardboard or something that can be inserted into the lid when it is open will be required.  That can easily be held in place with some magnets, if necessary.  Buildings will obviously have to be stored and placed when operating, but plenty of scope with other scenic details.  Now it is operational and very functional, I look forward to its next stage of development.

Michael

Last edited on Fri Apr 26th, 2019 11:43 pm by Headmaster

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael. Thank you. The Lid is two and half inches deep, depending on how artistic I can get? it should be deep enough.  Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks to Barry`s photo and description we can all now see how well you have constructed the baseboards Kevin.
And now the nasty DPDT switch has been sorted you are well on your way i have no doubt there has been a lot of locomotive testing over the last week.
Looks like ballasting next for you Kevin and making some structures.
Barry making a dcc plank is a good idea you can have hours of fun with them and especially with a few small sound locos if your into steam a pannier is a great little sound loco.

Brian

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

You've been hiding your light under a bushel Kevin - that's a great looking "plank".

As others have said, now the electrics are in order, you can only move one way !!  Give your brain a rest and make some buildings or do some scenic work - whilst constantly "testing" your locos of course ......................

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Briperran wrote: .......
Barry making a dcc plank is a good idea you can have hours of fun with them and especially with a few small sound locos if your into steam a pannier is a great little sound loco.

Brian

A PANNIER!!!   Wash your mouth out Sir!  :mutley :mutley :mutley

I might actually re-live my youth and model MR/LMS (that is I modelled them when I was young, not that I remember the MR when I was young)

I think Kevin's deep lids will be great for mounting building flats/low-relief as they can remain in place when the lid is closed.  They will also allow huts and the like to be fixed to the surface of the board.  Taller structures will have to lift off but are easily stored in modern plastic stackable crates.

Barry

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian, Petermac. Thank you for your replies. My ex GWR 57xx in midnight metropolitan livery, has also had the sound treatment, but it puffs along instead of growling.  Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Perhaps one of the GWR nutters will tell us what that clanking noise is when its going along and idling sounds like something is ready to fall off it. :lol:

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.  Thank you for your reply. I think that is a good one . But only LT fans would like it. Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

PANNIERS? GWR Nutters? Clanking sounds? With Kevin's permission I will return to this later today after a few hymns and prayers and requests for forgiveness.

Nigel

Spurno
Owner/Webmaster.


Joined: Tue Aug 14th, 2012
Location: Torquay, United Kingdom
Posts: 4146
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Or we could look to hire a hitman. :mutley

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Alan.  Thank you for your reply. I don’t have any complaints about my 57xx.   Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Sun Apr 28th, 2019 03:53 pm by Passed Driver

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

LOL i thought that would get a bite :mutley

Still interested to know what the clanking sound is when the power is removed and it idles as its going along deffo sounds like something ready to fall off.

Brian

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

At least the smoke smells sweet .................. ;-)

The clanking you refer to Brian is pent up power just waiting to be released - imagine it as a finely tuned living wonder bursting at the seams on the starting line.

Those horrible things that belch out oil and black pollution need separate heaters to keep the crew warm and are just lumps of dumb iron ....................they lack any kind of a soul.  They're also terrible news for the employment figures............. ................

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Panniers. Unlike side tanks, they can easily be removed, easily accommodate different boilers, allow easy access to the motion innards, injectors, toolboxes, lamps, etc., provide some footing for the crew and fitters, and evenly balance the weight across all driving wheels. What is there not to admire? The GWR was onto something with these, as evidenced by the 863 produced over the years. Not called the "Great" for nothing. A tried and tested design.That all came about because of Churchward's prescient decision in championing the use of the Belpaire boiler, with it's superior heat exchange, low coal consumption and efficient smoke box draw when compared to those circular affairs that other companies focused on. To the extent that super-heating was not required.

The motion clatter on coasting? Steam engines are not just about chuff. Valves, injectors, vacuum pump ticking, and big ends knocking (especially on preserved models). Plus the gentle simmer of the boiler when at working pressure. DCC sounds are available from various preserved panniers, whether they are representative of the GWR is another matter. I think the 57xx available on ESU decoders comes from at least 3 preserved models.Given the amount of work they do a bit of knock is tolerable.

Whether wearing green, black or maroon, lined or unlined, clean or dirty, pulling freight or passengers, a sight to be admired by aficionados of the steam persuasion.  Every layout, whether GWR or of a lesser species, needs a brace (or two). No bias here of course.

Nigel


Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thankyou for your description Nigel

The sound decoder i have is a south west digital ESU one on that recording the clanking noise is very prominent as soon as what would be the regulator is shut and the loco is coasting it is related to wheel rotation.
In the week i will see if i can do a little video so you can identify what it is that does the clanking.

Brian

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Brian, that sounds like big end knock from the descripton. One of the recordings was made with a preserved locomotive with noisy ends, as soon as piston rod movement relaxes the ends start knocking. In GWR days that would have meant immediate repairs.

One of the benefits of GWR standardization is that any sound file from a small  GWR locomotive is fine. I always used the Howes generic one.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  I am quite pleased with the sound file? that Paul fitted into my ex GWR 57xx.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry and interested parties. Since you ( Barry) came over to get me out of the proverbial, I have busy Shunting my 08 up and down, thinking about the scenery yet to come. But this morning things were quite different, my 08 Shunter stopped on the board gap/joint. But I had to go out to buy some scenery stuff. Up until now the current was quite happily flowing via the fishplate, usually I prefer to feed every length of track track, no matter how short, after dinner I connected that length of track, now to my surprise, Nothing and all the lights are on meaning no shorts , I cleaned the track, still nothing. Then I put away all the DCC stuff and plugged in the direct current controller and my yet to be upgraded L& Y Pug, of course it whizzed up and down as I expected, it didn’t prove a thing, But, it was fun fun fun.Then I dug out the wheel Cleaner connected the Powercab and tried my luck on the 08. Nothing. Time for a cuppa.
   Best wishes Kevin.  PS any useful suggestions? I thought that it was going too well.

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin

If the Pug is running OK but the Gronk is not then it suggests that it might be the loco.  Dirty wheels/pick-ups perhaps?  Dirty track can be ruled out by the Pug.  I presume that the 08 is happy on all other parts of the layout?  If not then its worth checking the loco out.

Its certainly a strange one.  It could be DCC related but I know so little about it that I would not like to comment.

If the loco is happy on one plank but not the other then I would suggest that you have an issue with the ol' banana plugs.  I use phono leads and sockets from an audio suppliers (was Maplin, now via t'internet) and they work fine although they do require soldered joints.  My BBC mate suggests that XLR plugs and sockets are better (as a musician I am very inclined to agree but these are harder to get than phonos and they are much more expensive).

Back at the bananas - Kevin it might be worth checking that the plug connections (screw/solder) are still sound.

Barry

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I think the pug is DC Barry, not DCC but, as you say, it does rule out track and connections etc.  If it works on DC, it should also work on DCC.

Showing a short on DCC but not on DC suggests it's something to do with either the controller or the gronk rather than the plank itself ...........................

When you went off shopping Kevin, did you turn everything off on the layout ?

Check there isn't anything stuck to the gronk wheels - a stray pin, bit of conductive metal or anything else that could cause a short.

Try connecting your DCC controller up to a new bit of track "on the bench" and test the gronk on there - just to make doubly sure it's not "layout" related.

If you connect the controller to the "empty" layout, do you still get the short ?  If not, then it's the loco.

Barry - I hadn't thought about using XLR plugs/sockets for links.  A useful tip as I have quite a few redundant ones kicking around, as indeed do I have phonos too.  And to think, I very nearly threw them out, along with an old mixing desk when we moved - all a symptom of my "hoarding" nature....................

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry. Thank you for your reply. First things first, I do have a small confession to make, I have fitted the CPC the interface, I think that’s what they call it, on the fiddleyard, whether that makes a difference? But it had been suggested that the position of the CPC on the Inglenook would cause me problems? Regarding the board connections I had read about them on YMRC and thought that I would give them a try, otherwise I was going to use Anderson Power Poles as recommended by Nigel, but I purchased the wrong size crimps. I will move the CPC back to the Inglenook tomorrow.   Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply.  That is something that I cannot make out. There wasn’t a short circuit this time, because that would reveal itself on the Powercab handset, when a short occurs the handset flashes, but not this time. When I leave my Locos, I put them back in their boxes, even the Pugs. I have spare leads from various items of equipment, just in case they come in handy? But I think that the problem is on the DCC side, somehow, because when I connected the direct current to the bus wires the Pug proved the connections, rather strange? Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin, what you call the CPC is the PCP and it doesn't really matter on which board you instal it, just follow the Powercab instructions.
But OK - connect both boards together, leave the PCP disconnected from the tracks and using the multimeter in Ohms mode( resistance) you can confirm that all tracks are wired & no short circuits.

Unless you have modified CV29 on the gronk to prevent it running on DC, you should be bale to see if the gronk runs on the spare bit of track as PeterMac suggests with just DC.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply.  I am always getting initials wrong. I thought that about the position of the PCP. A bit like e the company that is supposed to protect my cards? I also tried my ex GWR 57xx Pannier Tank and that wasn’t working either.  Now we are talking technology with CV’s. The only reason that I was concerned about changing to the fiddleyard was the connections are back to front, insofar as the power would be from the plug instead as from the socket . I know that it is a low voltage, but it is head downwards???  Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Wed May 8th, 2019 12:22 am by Passed Driver

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

It all sounds very interesting. From your last paragraph I assume you mean that power to the fiddle yard is through the PCP, power to the scenic part is then through the connectors between the two boards. As long as you have continuity that should not make a scrap of difference.

Now comes the fun part. If you put the 08 on the program track and go into programming mode, does the system recognize the decoder? If not I think you need to open the bag of chips and pop them in the oven.. Because the decoder sounds like it's fried.

If the 08 doesn't run on DC and Cv29 is set to DCC/DC it's a dead parrot. Did it run on DC before? If so it might be the motor or the decoder. Only way to find out is to take it apart and put a DCC blanking plug in. If it runs on DC you have definitely fried the decoder. If not it's the motor and/or wiring. Test the decoder in another locomotive or with a DCC test board.

Now if you left the system on while shopping and it was shorting merrily away you should probably make sure the NCE Power Cab still actually works. I see no mention that you tested it with another chipped locomotive. 

Suggested plan of action: Verify Power Cab works. If yes verify that the decoder is still readable. If yes check Cv29. and set to dual mode DCC/DC if it is set on DCC only. Check it runs on DC using a blanking plug. If yes then it's head scratching time. Any no's and "Houston, we have a problem". Oh, and visually inspect the decoder. Is anything melted?

Nigel



Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Barry. Thank you for your reply. First things first, I do have a small confession to make, I have fitted the CPC the interface, I think that’s what they call it, on the fiddleyard, whether that makes a difference?

There's an old saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Your suggestion of moving it back is a good idea Kevin.


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. I didn’t install the Decoder, that was down to Paul. I always put my Locos away after a running session, and the 08 was running on the fiddleyard okay in the morning, except, when it stopped whilst crossing the board gap. I did attempt to run another sound fitted Loco, the ex GWR 57xx Pannier, and when that remained motionless, that is when I hooked up the direct current controller with the Pug on the track.AFAIK know the Powercab is okay, without getting it tested, as it lights up as per normal, and it is possible to select a Loco and or recall a Loco. As with putting away, into their respective boxes, I always unplug the Powercab and put that in a safe place.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ed wrote: Passed Driver wrote: Hi Barry. Thank you for your reply. First things first, I do have a small confession to make, I have fitted the CPC the interface, I think that’s what they call it, on the fiddleyard, whether that makes a difference?

There's an old saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Your suggestion of moving it back is a good idea Kevin.


Ed

Hi Ed,  Thank you. Do you mean moving the PCP back to the Inglenook, even though I had suggested that, as it is the socket that is supposed to be alive, and passing the current to the plug, odd? I will do that.Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote:  Up until now the current was quite happily flowing via the fishplate, usually I prefer to feed every length of track track, no matter how short, after dinner I connected that length of track, now to my surprise, Nothing and all the lights are on meaning no shorts ,


Looks like you've made more than one change Kevin.

Put the PCP back where it was on the inglenook and see if the problem goes away, if it doesn't then it's some other change you've made.


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed and interested parties. The latest sit-rep , as illogical as it sounds. I have just refitted the PCP to the Inglenook, not as though it should make a blind bit of difference,  but it makes me happy. Sad to say the 08 didn’t move, whether it is the Decoder or the pickups I don’t know. But it isn’t the Powercab, I ran my Dave Jones 02, ex GWR 57xx Pannier, and another Pannier, All ran okay. For my next trick? I don’t know which road to take as I am unfamiliar with this area of expertise.   Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

By "it makes me happy" Kevin, I assume locos now run across from the inglenook to the fiddle yard ok, apart from the 08?

If so. it sounds like the chip in the 08 is fried, but wait for a DCC expert to advise.


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  I didn’t go that far. After Breakfast or maybe after dinner, but, I cannot see why the connection shouldn’t be sound. Neither can I see a reason for the across baseboard connections causing the 08 to fail originally, it is completely uncharted territory for me.   Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thinking about it, easiest way to check the 08 is put it on the programming track and see if you can read the loco number.

Ed

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Ed.  I didn’t go that far. After Breakfast or maybe after dinner, but, I cannot see why the connection shouldn’t be sound. Neither can I see a reason for the across baseboard connections causing the 08 to fail originally, it is completely uncharted territory for me.   Best wishes Kevin 
Don't understand your reply Kevin, do the 02 and Panniers now run across the baseboard joint ok when powered by DCC


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ed wrote: Passed Driver wrote: Hi Ed.  I didn’t go that far. After Breakfast or maybe after dinner, but, I cannot see why the connection shouldn’t be sound. Neither can I see a reason for the across baseboard connections causing the 08 to fail originally, it is completely uncharted territory for me.   Best wishes Kevin 
Don't understand your reply Kevin, do the 02 and Panniers now run across the baseboard joint ok when powered by DCC


Ed
Hi Ed I haven’t tried that yet, but I will, later ( after Breakfast). I’m sorry to say, but food comes first, then I can finish my morning medicines as per my routine. And then do the testing.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Ed wrote: Thinking about it, easiest way to check the 08 is put it on the programming track and see if you can read the loco number.

Ed

Hi Ed. I uprooted my programme track when I first had the short circuits, before Barry came over and found that it was one of my DPDT Slide switches that was causing the short. I will have to install a programme track on the fiddleyard now that I know where the short was and it was nothing to do with the programme track.   Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin - just sit down and take a breath for a minute !!!!

It's no good saying " I ran my Dave Jones Pannier and another and all ran OK" then saying you didn't go as far as crossing from one board to the other !!!

When you are testing, you need to TEST.  That involves running said loco over every single piece of track to make sure it's all live and working - in both directions.

Now, as it is, we're another 4 or 5 posts down the line with half the world scratching it's head wondering what the problem could be and you tell us you haven't actually run the loco !

Rant over.

Now, be a good chap and tell us EXACTLY what the situation is.  Does the pannier run OK on DCC or not ?

Have you set up a spare bit of track to check the gronk on DCC ?  Just any bit of track longer than the gronk will do - connect it to your controller, switch to "Programme" and try to read the address.  If that's OK, switch back to "Normal" and see if it will move - in both directions !!!

Then report back .........................  BUT DON'T TOUCH OR ALTER ANYTHING ELSE !!!

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

First paragraph of post 237 Yes/no? Is the 08 running, DC or DCC? Yes/no? Do other decoder equipped locomotives run OK? Yes/no?

Post 230 is to me unclear. As long as power to the PCP goes in where it should, and the track power comes out where it should, it doesn't matter whether it's jacks, plugs or sockets. Or even wires. Although it's probably prudent to go with what NCE supplies.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your concern. “ I don’t believe it “ everything is just as it was, yet the fiddleyard is dead. I put both Locos ( one at a time) on the fiddleyard Set the Powercab Handset to programme it said “Cannot Read CV” then I moved over to the Inglenook, repeated the procedure and it “ Manufacturer 145 “ as both Locos are by Bachmann I can only assume that represents Bachmann. Not a mention of CV’s though? Or should I have gone further?   Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.    I have just replied to Petermac. The fiddleyard is dead. The 08 isn’t running. I did the programme track test. On the fiddleyard it said cannot read C/V’s on both Locos. On the Inglenook it said Manufacturer 145.Unfortunately  I have never learned anything about C/V’s,  I don’t know if there should have been more info on the screen or not please advise .  Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Manufacturer code 145 is Zimo.. Have you tested for DCC power in the fiddleyard? Multimeter in AC volts.
You did follow the instructions in the Powercab manual under Programming procedures?

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: ................................................................. I did the programme track test. On the fiddleyard it said cannot read C/V’s on both Locos. On the Inglenook it said Manufacturer 145 .............................................

You've lost me Kevin ...................

What have the fiddle yard or inglenook got to do with this programming track ?  The programming track, for this purpose, should not be connected to anything other than your controller.

It's a completely separate piece of track solely there to test your locos on this occasion.  Just a single length of track sitting on a bench or table - nothing else - no fiddleyard, no inglenook - just a piece of track.

Disconnect your controller from your "plank" and connect it to this single piece of track.

Disconnected from everything else removes any doubts about where the fault could lie.

Assuming you have connected your controller properly and set it to "Programme Mode" properly, (I'm not an NCE man so can't help there), if your decoder is OK, you should be able to read the address of a loco placed on this track.  Of course, you should only place 1 loco on the track at a time.

If you can't read the address, then it's likely your decoder is dead - always assuming you have connected the track and controller properly and set the controller to "Programme" mode. :thumbs

Do that and tell us what happens.  Remember, we're not there watching so you have to make it crystal clear what's going on verbally.  Don't introduce any other "distractions" - keep it simple, clear and concise. 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you. I haven’t tested the Fiddleyard yet. But I did follow the Powercab procedure, press escape four times etc. But Being as the other Locos work, shouldn’t that prove the power.    Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you again. When I first had the short circuits I lifted the programme track to  eliminate  it from the equation. And whilst I haven’t got a programme  track, as long as there is only one Loco on the track I can do my programming on either the Inglenook or the fiddle-yard .  Best wishes Kevin 

Longchap
Full Member


Joined: Wed Mar 25th, 2015
Location:  Saumur, France
Posts: 1558
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Petermac.  Thank you again. When I first had the short circuits I lifted the programme track to  eliminate  it from the equation. And whilst I haven’t got a programme  track, as long as there is only one Loco on the track I can do my programming on either the Inglenook or the fiddle-yard .  Best wishes Kevin
Kevin,

Reading your latest tale of woe is painful, as you are getting some very good advice here and then ignoring it. Please read it thoroughly, particlary everything Peter said.

Disconnect your controller from your "plank" and connect it to this single piece of track.

Disconnected from everything else removes any doubts about where the fault could lie.


That is why a seperate pice of track is essential in eliminating any errors in your baseboards when determining the status of controller and decoder.

Have a cuppa and try again. We're all rooting for you.

Bill

Last edited on Wed May 8th, 2019 05:31 pm by Longchap

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Longchap wrote: Passed Driver wrote: Hi Petermac.  Thank you again. When I first had the short circuits I lifted the programme track to  eliminate  it from the equation. And whilst I haven’t got a programme  track, as long as there is only one Loco on the track I can do my programming on either the Inglenook or the fiddle-yard .  Best wishes Kevin
Kevin,

Reading your latest tale of woe is painful, as you are getting some very good advice here and then ignoring it. Please read it thoroughly, particlary everything Peter said.

Disconnect your controller from your "plank" and connect it to this single piece of track.

Disconnected from everything else removes any doubts about where the fault could lie.


That is why a seperate pice of track is essential in eliminating any errors in your baseboards when determining the status of controller and decoder.

Have a cuppa and try again. We're all rooting for you.

Bill



Thanks Bill .............................. :thumbs

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Bill.  Thank you. But I am in the process of reinstating a programme track. But the thing that I can’t make out the 08 Shunter was running up and down okay and then out of the blue it stopped. It may be down to old age but I intend to get the fault rectified. It is about time my GP earned his money?   Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

I seem to recall taking you through the operation of the Power Cab sometime ago. Along with lots of pictures. Sounds like it recognizes the decoder, but cannot read Cv's may or may not be ominous. The Power Cab has problems reading Cv's in some Digitrax decoders for example. No idea about Zimo decoders. Ask Paul.

You didn't answer my questions. Does the 08 run with DC? What about another locomotive. As Bill says, use a piece of track connected to nothing but the DC or the DCC supply for this sort of testing. Start from basics, be logical and work your way up.

Sounds like you still have a problem with the wiring and the 08. Tackle one at a time.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  I was unable to answer your question because I am sorry to say “ That I have never been able to understand C/ V’s “. If it was or is a matter of just connecting my direct current controller to the track, it would be “ simples “. I had considered the pickups? but when it was running okay it just stopped and hasn’t worked since, bearing in mind that I always disconnect everything and put any Loco back in its box even the Pug ( that hasn’t been converted to DCC, I cannot see how it could be the pickups. Both of my sound jobs were on Bachmann Locos ie the. 08 Shunter and the ex GWR 57xx Pannier read “ Manufacturer 145 “ when I tested them . But, only one of them runs.Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Bill.  This is another reply.  With NCE Powercab, the wire comes from the PCP, I stand to be corrected! But with the interface fitted to the fiddleyard, as it is, I cannot see the difference between the fiddleyard and a separate board, set aside to act as a programme track. I did have such a set up previously, but , it got in the way, and I have enough trip Hazards as it is , with my track record of tripping over I don’t need any more visits to hospitals.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi All.  Panic, me panic? I put the Bachmann 08 on the track and it ran to and fro making all the correct noises as if it had just been delivered. It must have been dirty track of something.?   Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

T'was gremlins



Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Yes. They get me all the time. Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Sorry Kevin I wer stuck up the side of a mountain with dodgy phone signal while you were having your trials and tribulations  :roll:
There were some compensations though 





I can only reiterate  what Petermac and others have said mate,  Sort out a short piece of track for a program track,
 Nothing fancy, just a plain piece of track with a method to alow you to connect the powercab. It eliminates ANY chance of the wiring on the various inglenooks, fiddly yards or what have you, being the problem, and allows you to check if the powercab is talking to a DCC chip. Now home again so I need food, beer, sleep



Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.   I had a Holiday in Scotland a few years ago going up and down the line to Mallaigh on the Jacobite. Whilst I was there I went to the Glenfinnan games. But the lab that develop the film made a mess of it.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you. That is a good question, I have now purchased a third PCP only to be wired “one at a time” .There is something that I cannot make out when Barry came over and located my melted insulation on the DPDT Slide switch  thank you Barry,

He pointed out a dip in the track at the baseboard joint, now I have levelled that and everything is okay?
But a new visitor to Inglenook Junction, a Heljan Class 33 has had a couple of slow runs to and fro on DC before getting its new Decoder, and at the very graceful pace located a Bump between Peco Code 75 flextrack and the Peco Code 75 point, could it be the “ fish plate”?. I have had this problem before, and no, the fishplates are fitted correctly., I put it down to the Insulated fishplate. A solution has been suggested, when the track has been tested and fixed down using a 20mm piece of Plasticard ? in lieu of the insulation, remove that and fill the gap with Miliput ( sounds a bit messy to me).    Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Seems a bit odd Kevin.

Has any other loco running over the joint found a bump, if you run your finger along the rail over the joint can you feel a bump?


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed. Thank you, I cannot remember, but the Loco doesn’t have any problems with the track, just now, but running my fingers over the Insulated fishplate I can detect something, it is a bit Deja Vu. I am going to trim an IRJ and fit that in place, there will still be insulation .  Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

It's easy to get an insulated fishplate in the wrong place Kevin - they're very thin.

Presumably you are using Code 75 fishplates and not Code 100 .......................

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your reply but. I haven’t got it upside down, and no I only have Code 75 Insulated fishplates  Peco probably like any manufacturers have the problem , but none would put their hands up to admit that.I will persist until I get to the bottom of it.   Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Of course unless you have cut out the plastic webbing on the sleeper under the rail to allow for insulated fishplate, then you will have a bump !

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply. The rails on both sides of the IRJ go right up to the middle block.  Best wishes Kevin 

Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin, this is a side view of Peco track showing 3 sleepers with the webbing that joins them and is under the rail

the little x's is the gap that allows the metal fishplate to sit under but using the insulated versions which are thicker, causes a bump.
So one has to remove the webbing, If you want to put a sleeper back to fill the gap, you have to thin it down where it sits under the rail to accommodate the insulated joiner.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply. But I already do that, and file off the chairs of spare sleepers to fill in the gap.Best wishes Kevin 

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin if its code 75 track to code 75 track if there is any bump the insulated rail joiner is not fitted properly the joiner will not be wrong as they are injection moulded by the hundreds and thousands.

I suggest you put on a head magnifier or some sort of magnifying glass and look closely at where you have used the joiners looking at both rails looking inside and outside of the rail  you will probably find is where you problem is.

Brian

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Brian.   Thank you for your reply. I have studied it, rubbed my finger over it, rolled wagons over it, you name it I have just about done everything . Meanwhile I was playing with a scalpel and the Insulated fishplate.I will have another go tomorrow.  Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris and anyone else too numerous to mention At long last I am home from NHS. Hospital Kngs College. It will take me a long time to get back into Inglenook Junction. After five weeks in hospital, having blood tests daily,scans in all shapes and sizes, I didn’t have a heart attack? So what was it? An infection which they administered daily intravenous antibiotics. Now I can hardly walk, let alone holding a soldering iron or anything else for that matter.     
I did notice a.lot of emails which I will reply to when I can cut my finger nails, this reply has taken me an age.
Best wishes Kevin 

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Great to have you back Kevin and that you are on the mend.

Michael

Briperran
Full Member


Joined: Thu Oct 4th, 2018
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 495
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Pleased you are back home Kevin you have certainly been missed.

Brian

John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 3862
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Briperran wrote: Pleased you are back home Kevin you have certainly been missed.

Brian

Couldnt agree more.................get well soon Kevin :thumbs

TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 295
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Not sure why I got a specific mention! But glad you hear you are on the mend and back on the forum. It has been a lot quieter!!

Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 440
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin

Glad to hear that you are back at home.  Take it easy my friend and ease yourself back in gently.  I recommend a few days sitting catching up on what has happened on here!!

Kind regards

Barry

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Turn me back for two minutes and he's snuck out of hospital and legged it home.
Welcome back Kevin  :thumbs  As others have said, take it easy and catch up on whats been hapening on here, The Inglenook can wait a bit

Cheers

Matt


Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yes, good to hear you have got home .

Take it easy - things will wait..

Longchap
Full Member


Joined: Wed Mar 25th, 2015
Location:  Saumur, France
Posts: 1558
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin and welcome back to the fold. Many congratulations in surviving five weeks of hospital food.

It sounds as if you'll be taking things easy as your strength returns, but pop in anytime for a chat.

Best wishes for a full recovery from a still swealtering hot Loire Valley,

Bill

Last edited on Sun Jun 30th, 2019 03:02 pm by Longchap

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael. Thank you . On the mend.? If only, after five weeks of Hospital Tests, I have aged five years. I have lost my balance, as for being pumped full of antibiotics and I really need skip to the loo? And then I don’t know exactly what was wrong with me. Not apparently? The The suspected heart attack , but heart valves, hence the antibiotics.Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Bill.  Thank you. Being back? Back, but not quite, as for Hospital food, the Best they had was salmon with peas and potatoes with hollandaise sauce.. I have a. carer who pops in, but I have to get fit by myself because I am so unfit after my stay and I don’t want anymore Hospital stays. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt. It wasn’t so much sneaking out? But I now find myself feeling worse than ever but I must admit that it could have been worse. Worse than missing some good Railway shows? But I am home.  Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I'll echo what others have said Kevin - welcome back.  We were indeed worried about you but Matt did some detective work and got to the bottom of your absence.

I think many of us know what a prolonged spell in hospital does for one so just take it easy for now and let your batteries trickle charge.  We won't go anywhere just yet ............. :cheers

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Thank you, when I went off to Hospital in the middle of the night, with a suspected heart attack I am sorry to say that the iPad and iPhone were the last thing on my mind. And even though an ambulance pulled into the close, it wasn’t until Matt got onto the police who woke up the neighbours early on a Sunday morning that anyone knew where I was. Three cheers to Matt. Best wishes Kevin 

Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

You can run. . . But you cannie hide !  I just told em you were doing free bacon rolls Kevin.. never seen the beggers move so fast ! That WPC gave me heck when she realised I was fibbing  ;-)
As others have said, good your back, now feet up and take it easy for a bit

Cheers

Matt


Spurno
Owner/Webmaster.


Joined: Tue Aug 14th, 2012
Location: Torquay, United Kingdom
Posts: 4146
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Glad to have you back Kevin.You have been missed,I hope you're feeling better.

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Barchester wrote: You can run. . . But you cannie hide !  I just told em you were doing free bacon rolls Kevin.. never seen the beggers move so fast ! That WPC gave me heck when she realised I was fibbing  ;-)
As others have said, good your back, now feet up and take it easy for a bit

Cheers

Matt



:mutley :mutley :mutley :mutley

Well done Sherlock Matt .................................  I must make a note that the Feds will do anything for a bacon buttie   ..........

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt . As I wrote to Petermac, up until the police woke up the neighbours in the close, no one had any idea of my whereabouts. I am glad to be out of hospital, but, that really took it out of me, in more ways than one. First order of the day is to be able to get up and down stairs without a lot of grunting. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Alan.  Thank you for your kind words. But I really need to work on my recovery, before I can get back to serious modelling?      Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Barchester wrote: You can run. . . But you cannie hide !  I just told em you were doing free bacon rolls Kevin.. never seen the beggers move so fast ! That WPC gave me heck when she realised I was fibbing  ;-)
As others have said, good your back, now feet up and take it easy for a bit

Cheers

Matt


Hi Matt. If only I could walk? let alone run, that would be an achievement. When I negotiate the stairs I require a “ Banking Engine “.to get me up or down. One day at a time,” Sweet Jesus “.    Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt  Thank you for everything. But now I must concentrate on my recovery. But, I have been doing some serious thinking. Because my plans are based on Southern England, I realise that any rock scenery should be based on a mixture of Chalk and Clay , I have read about using Polystyrene ceiling tiles which all look Straightforward which leads me to the question of Chalk and all the ideas I have read feature rock strata, but aren’t both Chalk and clay compact? Thank you again Kevin 

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin

Yes, chalk and rock are compact - no nice layers there.  Chalk is a tricky thing to model in large quantities, but hints of it here and there will be enough to indicate the location.  Use photographs of the real thing (from internet) to help.  Patches of bare chalk showing through grass and plants is probably more realistic than a whole rock face - unless you are doing cliffs!

Michael


Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 429
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Sorry Kevin , its that time of year again and work is dominating my time atmo. Hopefully it will quiet down to a dull roar later in the year  :roll:
I agree with Michael, a hint of rock covered partly by undergrouth  rather than a full rock face would suffice. You can get fair results using a cheap small bag of tile grout from B&Q or various other outlets. White or cream/ivory for chalk or grey/ brown for other types of rock.  Mix the grout in a container to a sticky paste, spread a piece of clingfilm over a spare tile, piece of gass or any flat surface. Use a paint scraper, spatula or old knife to spread the grout out into a semi rough slab to the size you want or roll balls of grout into rocks/ bolders. Leave the grout for a few minutes to start firming up,  put a piece of clingfilm over the top and you can then press in some texture to the surface  using various tools or a sponge or balled up cloth, even the rough side of a piece of tree bark, anything to get the look you want. You can paint and weather once dry.  To make the grout slightly less brittle add a 3_1 pva mix instead of pure water which helps to strenghthen it some. Trial and error with the mix in small amounts until you get what works for you !  
              Most of all have fun trying !

Cheers

Matt

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael. Thank you for your reply. Southern England is famous for Chalk cliffs but I am uncertain where that becomes Clay . I have plenty of time on my hands at the moment and will give you reply a try. If I had gone the regular way about things I could have had a more coherent plan by beginning with a location, but I went for the Inglenook first and extended with an imaginary junction. Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,



From Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_England_Chalk_Formation

Nigel

Edit. Clay is  not ground-up chalk. The chlorite group of clays can contain calcium. Usually not from calcium carbonate - chalk.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Matt.  Thank you for your reply. I can see that would be fun, and what a mess I would make.. would I have to do something with the bare plywood for the grout to adhere to it? I took Michael s advice and googled cliffs which threw up a surprise, Chalk cliffs do have Strata which are not level , which would give variety. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. I am storing up this info for where I am up and about. Coincidentally the cliffs that I googled were the “ Seven Sisters “ . How that would fit in with my plan I am uncertain but, I do require a Cliff or Rockface for my tunnels. Best wishes Kevin 

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

For your tunnel Kevin, I'd go for a cutting into a hillside which eventually becomes too deep so they had to tunnel.

There are some, but inland cliffs are quite rare in UK. I am of course, excluding man-made ones such as quarry faces etc.

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac. Thank you very much. You have corrected me in my thinking, but, cuttings are common place and I will have to work around the “ The Bodge Up “ that I made in adding to my Inglenook, due to confines of space.Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac.  Yet another reply, I googled “ British Railway cuttings “ and found an interesting photo of the “ Ridgeway Railway and Weymouth Relief Road Cutting “. With the Tunnel passing under Chalk down and Oxford clay.As for constructing a cutting, that would be a one sided affair otherwise it would obstruct the Inglenook. The original plan was for a small yard with all you would expect to find, cattle dock, goods shed, coal merchant. Best wishes Kevin 

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

You do get inland chalk "cliffs" as it were.  This is near where I live.....




Might make a nice scene.  In fact, I might have a go myself!

Michael

Last edited on Sun Jul 14th, 2019 12:24 am by Headmaster

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael . Thank you for your reply. Yes it does look good. But, for my part at the moment the stairs are a challenge for me and the carer has to assist me, yesterday I had an idea to do some work on the layout while it was still light, but, standing up is a PITA and the bedside table is occupied by the laptop. Please keep myself and everyone posted. Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,
Ventnor Railway Station, IoW, inland chalk cliff with tunnel.  

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you very much. I have boxed myself into a corner with the tunnel as I really wanted to make a small yard and the idea of a cutting, as good as it is, would make entry to my plan for the yard has gone out of the window.But I have plenty of thinking time. Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

The yard at Ventnor started almost immediately after exiting the tunnel with a 3-way, then 2 rights and 1 left switch. This was a very small yard, passenger lines in the middle, coal on the right with the offices in caves ("underneath the arches"), goods on the left. No runaround after the platform because of space, a small turntable immediately after the platform was used instead. No cutting was used from the cliff. Signal cabin to the left on exiting the tunnel. Check photos and plans. Plenty on the web. If you want a chalk cliff, no cutting and a small yard this is a good prototype example to base one on. Just takes a bit of imagination and lateral thinking. Plus some graph paper and a pencil and ruler. Doodle, not Google.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. As it happens I have an 02 Loco, subject to derailment? If I am lucky I may well get away with it, but with my hands the way they are, numbness and pins & needles, it may take a while?Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. This is another reply. I have been looking at the Ventnor station website, and think that any serious attempt that I would consider would have to be from scratch. Leaving my Inglenook Junction aside. But, not  until I and if, I get my hands and fingers working again . The only time that I traveled on the IOW Railway was down to Shanklin on former London Transport Tube stock, and single line. Was it single line originally??? Best wishes Kevin 

BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3167
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

You were looking for an example of a railway tunnel through a chalk cliff, no cutting. You now have one.

Nigel

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel  . Thank you for your reply. I realised that and appreciate your advice, but the idea inspired to think of building a layout to a track plan that was factual not imaginary.. whether it was just a terminus with a fiddleyard or whatever.It does seem the way to go. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry.  Yet another late reply. On the subject of steam locomotives, I do have DCC Locos in Steam ( and many awaiting conversion) but on the day in question I had taken up enough of your holiday weekend time, when you probably had other things to do.  Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Sat Sep 14th, 2019 09:07 pm by Passed Driver

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi All I have been back in Hospital, and my fitness is really in doubt, although I nagged the Doctors until they allowed me home. I had another case of Cellulitis that caused an infection causing my heart beat to reach 150,Yes and that was ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BEATS. Therefore  I am going to be a bit laid back, for a while.
They pumped me full of antibiotics whilst in there , and have given me more antibiotics in tablet form to bring home.
Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Wed Oct 9th, 2019 07:57 pm by Passed Driver

Headmaster
Full Member


Joined: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013
Location: Faversham, United Kingdom
Posts: 832
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Oh dear!  So sorry to hear Kevin.  Hopefully the antibiotics will do the trick and you will bouncing back quickly.  Until then, take care and look after yourself.
Michael

Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

With a heart rate of 150 Kevin, you were certainly tripping the light fantastic !!!

When my ticker started to ignore normal requirements, it accelerated to 140.  They plugged me in to a whole host of funny looking TV screens and other gadgets and wouldn't let me out until it had droped below 100, which, in the event,  was only 2 days later.

Hopefully, yours will do the same.  They'll put you on some kind of daily Smarties and Robert will be your mother's brother ......................

Take things easy - no prizes for being first in the box ......................

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Cellulitis is a right bar steward Kevin, you have my fullest sympathy.

The antibiotics aren't great either, found out earlier this year I'm now allergic to penicillin, terrible rash and was affecting my breathing. A call to 111 at five o'clock in the morning, after no sleep through itching, suggested antihistamine or a trip to A & E. Fortunately the antihistamine worked, but it does prove sometimes the cure is worse than the illness.


Ed

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Michael. Thank you for your reply. I am not so certain? I had asked the doctors if it could be something to do with asthma. With my heart rate as it is/was? maybe I should have been born a Hamster ? Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Thu Oct 10th, 2019 09:04 am by Passed Driver

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. Indeed, this is my third “ bout “ first in 2000 when we removed house, second whilst on holiday in Canada, and now. Sounds like you have either been a victim or Kev someone that has.Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Petermac. I should be so lucky? I am now full of beater blockers and antibiotics. It has been suggested that the Cellulitis caused the infection that affected my heart rate, no more running up and down stairs all day. Best wishes Kevin 

Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.    Re your Cellulitis comments? You haven’t been lumbered with my other medical condition ( that I am taking Beta Blockers) because that really is a PITA, I have managed to get a phone call appointment with the Doctor on Tuesday afternoon, but I am impatient. Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Back on antibiotics as it's flared up again :sad:

Let's face it Kevin, as we get older we start falling to bits.

Have you managed to do anything on the layout?


Ed


Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed. Thank you for your reply. I don’t seem to have any energy to get back up the stairs.. I did try, but, this old heart of mine is giving up ? And I don’t want to push it. I am hoping that the Doc will fill me I’m on Tuesday?Best wishes Kevin 

Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3759
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Good luck on Tuesday Kevin :thumbs


Ed


                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.