Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Model Railway Layouts. > Small Layouts,Planks and Micros > Kevin's Inglenook Junction To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  ...  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ...  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Kevin's Inglenook Junction - Small Layouts,Planks and Micros - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:12 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 141st post
Barry Miltenburg
Full Member


Joined: Wed Jan 18th, 2017
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 547
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides



I am not adding anything here as Kevin is in safe hands but here is (I think) Kevin's trackplan in case it helps.  The photos he posted suggest that the two lines of track are not conected.

I think the power feeds should be at F1 and F2 - if not, then that might be the fault?????

Over and out

Barry

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:21 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 142nd post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3408
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

So what were the results? If you did wire them like that I think that as soon as you connect the board to the main bus the polarity of the frog is wrong. The track rails couldn't care less. You would need to swap bus the wires going  in into the switch. If you remove the frog wires from the switches does it still short?


Some pictures and diagrams would help, otherwise it's difficult to understand what is going on.


As I and others have said, start again from the beginning, testing as you go every time track or point is laid.


Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:45 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 143rd post
Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 473
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi guys,, only had a brief call with Kevin today as had some family matters to attend to and time got away from me,  (me brain hurts lol) but at least we have some idea it might be point related. Kevin and I will have a go tomorrow if possible and see if we can get some photos sorted
Cheers

Matt

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 10:00 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 144th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Barry.  That is spot on, but, I am uncertain as how I should proceed , as the power ( PCP ) is on that board.Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 12:24 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 145th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3408
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Barry Miltenburg wrote:

I am not adding anything here as Kevin is in safe hands but here is (I think) Kevin's trackplan in case it helps.  The photos he posted suggest that the two lines of track are not conected.

I think the power feeds should be at F1 and F2 - if not, then that might be the fault?????

Over and out

Barry

Hi Kevin,


Thanks to Barry for the plan. This is where it gets interesting - how did you wire it? You have in essence 4 power districts (blocks in DC)  2 on each board - that really should be wired separately with one common wire and 4 separate wires with circuit breakers, both connected to the PCP. That way each district is separate and a short in one will not affect the others. Or the Powercab.


Nigel








____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 12:50 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 146th post
Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 473
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I've asked Kevin to carry out the same experiment on the right hand board points as he did on the left,  awaiting results
Cheers

Matt

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2019 11:52 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 147th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

two photos of wiring






Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2019 12:33 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 148th post
TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 483
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin wow! Looks like the inside of a BT phone exchange box!
All I'd recommend is to not have all of those wires exposed and once you are happy with bits insulate them with tape.



____________________
Chris

Teasel Bay

Teasel Bay on Facebook
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2019 02:29 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 149th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris. Thank you very much.  Where possible I use heat shrink tube. But the bare wires scenario is down to the fact that I have been faffing around too much rewiring over again trying to locate the fault , which only occurs when the two baseboards are clamped together. When it is up and running again I will insulate all the bare wires.Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2019 04:31 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 150th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3408
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

That looks... interesting. As you have WIT for the points all that is track plus connections to the DPDT switches for the frogs. You have a lot of bare metal. This just might the be an opportune moment to start with a clean board and plan it out using power districts and some short protection for the Power Cab.

What gauge wire are you using? How did you color code the bus and droppers? I see red coming off black, red coming off red, black coming up off blue..red and blue look to be the bus wires as they are kept in place with ring screws. Any reason why the PCP is in the inside rather than on the side wall?

Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2019 05:26 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 151st post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Chris. Thank you very much. But, there’s more, a new fault, the “ telephone like plug “ doesn’t want to stay in position, because the plastic type spring/ latch doesn’t clip any more, but due to circumstances beyond my control my bank card has been cut up.  Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2019 08:22 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 152nd post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you very much.  The Blue wire is the new Black and the Brown Wire is the new Red.  Ergo black to blue, and red to brown, I don’t know anything about gauge, but, the bus is heavier than the droppers. The heavier  Red and Black Wires are cable laid? which is more flexible/suitable for the jumpers , are soldered to the jumpers and, are single strand Brown and Blue and “ never the twain shall meet “ .   Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 03:12 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 153rd post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3408
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,


Thanks. Pretty logical if unconventional, whatever works best for you. NCE recommend 16 or 18 gauge for the bus for a 2 Amp system and a small layout, 20-24 for the droppers. It is important, as the thinner the wire the greater is the voltage drop. Best to keep droppers the same length.

Difficult to tell from the photos, are the switches powered from the bus or the rails? Grey is the wit?

I gather you do not have a circuit breaker to protect the Power Cab.

Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 05:58 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 154th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you very much for your reply. The DPDT Slide switches are fed by green wires. “ inscrutable “ the grey wires in fact are “ Wire in Tube “ for Point Control “ . I did originally intend to have all the droppers the same length, as for droppers?  every length of track has at least one dropper and of course the points/turnouts.Loss of power? that is why the bus is a heavier cable.  Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 12:29 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 155th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3408
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

I think you meant that the feed to the frog was green. I see red and black going in.

I just caught your comment re the plug. This is the NCE cable? That is not a standard RJ12 telephone/CAT cable, and is custom made for NCE to carry 2 amp. You could put a new end on, but it will be cheaper to get a replacement unless you can get the loan of a crimper.

Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 01:02 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 156th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Passed Driver wrote: Hi Chris. Thank you very much. But, there’s more, a new fault, the “ telephone like plug “ doesn’t want to stay in position, because the plastic type spring/ latch doesn’t clip any more, but due to circumstances beyond my control my bank card has been cut up.  Best wishes Kevin Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply.  The  “Telephone like plug” comment was for anyone that is unfamiliar with the NCE Powercab set up. In my pursuit of short circuits, my wiring that is under the baseboard may look like a telephone 📞 exchange? but I can assure yourself and any interested parties that the Green Wires have remained constant and do control the points via the DPDT Slide switches . Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 02:07 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 157th post
Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3878
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I seem to remember Kevin, a few posts back you said the boards don't short when connected together with the red wires to the switches disconnected (de-soldered).

Points to there being a fault having developed in one or other (or both) switches.

You've probably already done this, but for clarity, you can check the switches with your multimeter.

With the multimeter set to 2000 ohms (resistance), if you touch the probes on something that has no electrical connectivity you'll get a 1 on the display.

In this case air.



If you touch something that will pass a electric current, in this case a piece of rail, you'll get readings on the display. They may well jump about and keep changing, but the display won't stay on 1.



If you take your multimeter and touch the center connection of a slide switch with one probe and then touch the left hand connection with the other probe, you'll get either a 1 or some sort of reading.

If you leave one probe on the center connection and then move the probe from the left hand connection to the right hand connection, you should then get the opposite reading from what you got when touching the left hand connection. (i.e either a reading or 1).

That is, one connection should show a reading and the other one should just show 1.

If both the left and right hand connections give a reading, the switch is faulty.

Don't know if this helps, but it can be used all around the layout. Anywhere where two bits of rail are isolated with a IRJ should show 1 when the probes are touching the rails each side of the IRJ.



Ed




____________________
Engineers just love to change things
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 02:29 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 158th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3620
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. I have seen something about Multimeters before, but this is another way of explaining it. I did recently purchase a Duracell 9 volt battery so it should be good? But I couldn’t make any sense of it, I will put the battery in in the Multimeter again, and try your method to see if I get similar results and report back.As Nigel said they all look very similar.   Best wishes Kevin 



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 02:29 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 159th post
Barchester
Administrator


Joined: Wed Oct 18th, 2017
Location: Linlithgow, United Kingdom
Posts: 473
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Good clear explanation Ed. At the moment where we are. . . Both boards work fine independently
Connect them together and you get a fault  

If you disconect the red wire from any one point you still have the fault (doesn't matter which one)

If you discontect the red wire on the SECOND point on that particular board the fault goes away

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 02:40 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 160th post
Ed
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: West Anglia Main Line, United Kingdom
Posts: 3878
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

It's the same multimeter as yours Kevin, just a different colour.

Disconnect the Powercab (if it isn't already) before you test the switches, and as you test each one, then slide the switch (i.e. change the point) and check that the opposite connection now has a reading and the other shows 1.

Matt. I need to ponder that. Very odd that the fault only goes away only after disconnecting both point switches.

Suggests the feed, but it won't harm to eliminate each individual component in Kevin's set-up.

(By hook or by crook, we'll get him going)


Ed



____________________
Engineers just love to change things
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 16030     Current time is 07:04 am Page:  First Page Previous Page  ...  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ...  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Model Railway Layouts. > Small Layouts,Planks and Micros > Kevin's Inglenook Junction
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.