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Kevin's Inglenook Junction - Small Layouts,Planks and Micros - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 12:09 pm
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Passed Driver
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Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. That is a good question. But today Matt has come up with an idea, which I tried.I have desoldered both red wires to the points on the “ slave board “ connected the boards together, electronically, 
and no flashing on the handset. But, and a big but it is. What is the next step. When I mentioned the previous problem I had with the DPDT Slide switches to the supplier ( over the counter, face to face as it was) he said that it shouldn’t matter which way around the switches are facing.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 12:49 pm
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I take it that by 'slave board' you mean the fiddle yard board Kevin.

If you've disconnected one side of the feed to the points and there's no short, it sounds like the red and black are the wrong way round, probably on the slide switch, but we really need a picture.

The DPDT slide switches will work whichever way around they are, as long as they're wired up correctly.


Ed




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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 01:41 pm
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Hi Kevin,

So no bananas between the 2 boards? With 2 PCP units on the same bus? Yes/no and yes/no.


If not then that eliminates that. Back to the drawing board. 


If you go over the track of the fiddle yard with the multimeter are there any issues?  


If you connect a DC powerpack? ditto.


Are any of the points connected to a sllde switch? Ditto.


Does black on the scenic connect to black on the fiddle? Red to red?


Do they have the same polarity?


I think I would remove all the wiring, disassemble the track and start from scratch, testing as I went as recommended by others. Including all the points. Any stray wires underneath? 


Just to make sure. When you connect the 2 boards with bananas there is a short? And when the fiddle is powered in isolation there is still a short?


If you haven't got the multimeter up and running yet you will be working in the dark. Although that light circuit you have will help. Not with polarity though unless it is an LED.


Nigel










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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 02:57 pm
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Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. Swapping the red and black wires? I did try that already, and it seemed worse. Strange thing about it is that when I stopped messing about with the asymmetric three way point, it did run for a while, but a different bunch of problems arose, and that is where I am today.   Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 03:09 pm
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Try and answer with yes or no Nigels questions Kevin.

if you dont know some of the answers say i dont know

Hopefully Matt will contact you at some point to sort your photos


Brian



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 03:15 pm
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Hi Kevin ok good progress, lets stop and take stock
1)  you have 2 boards  Master (scenic) and slave  (fiddleyard)

2) Master has a pcb. . . Slave doesn't

3) each board has 2 points placed toe to toe

4) both boards work ok independently but powering the slave from the master via banana plugs shows a fault

5) if you disconect the red wires from both points on the slave and power up the fault disapears


All correct ?

My next suggestion, get pen and paper and do the following

1) check that all four DPDT switches are fitted the same way round

2) Draw all four switches mark them Master 1 master 2 slave 1 and slave 2  (draw large so you can mark info around each one)

3) draw an arrow next to each switch showing the physical direction each switch faces ( all 4 the same way ? Or 2 left 2 right ?)

4) Now add in the wiring information showing where each coloured wire connects to each switch

Then we can move on throm there

Cheers

Matt

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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 03:21 pm
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Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. You do ask some questions, which are mostly outside my scope. My Bachmann entry level DC power pack ? Used to work fine but during the course of this thread it has given up the ghost.I will have to purchase a new battery for the multimeter. As I have stated both the baseboards work fine individually it is only when they are wired together that “ sparks fly “. When I had a similar problem in 2016 I had a lot of help from YMRC, and then I found a homemade device on line, to check polarity, with three wires, one with a probe , and a green wire and a red LED connected to it, likewise  a Red wire with a Green LED connected to it. It is still online and it is better to watch the video, than have me try to explain how it works.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 03:45 pm
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Facing points? Is that the issue? Wiring up off the board, red to left, blue to write, hmm, nice cup of tea, looks good, jumper wires nicely in place, frog wired, job done! And then placing the points on the board:




Is this what has happened? Would that explain it? Those with more expertise than me jump in. Now I know why I don't bother powering frogs by keeping them isolated but live.

Nigel



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:00 pm
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Hi Nigel.  Thank you. The tail ( the narrowest end ) of each point is next to each other, but not directly, is that an issue???  My frogs 🐸 are live, fed via Left Hand and the Right Hand Bus Wires, if you know what I mean?Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:10 pm
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Kevin you mean they are like the bottom of the 2 drawings Nigel posted?

Brian



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:20 pm
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Hi Brian.   Yes.  Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:43 pm
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Brian/Nigel

If both boards work ok when powered separately, how could there be a problem with the point wiring when Kevin connects the boards together quest:

Am I missing something :???:



Ed



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:49 pm
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Ed all we know at the moment is with the boards connected together there is a fault. If Kevin disconnects the red wires from both points on ONE board the fault disappears. I've asked Kevin to draw a diagram of the wiring of all the point switches and once we gave that I'll get Kevin to photograph it and then we will get some photos uploaded. Then it will be all heads together to see if we can find where the fault is ?
Cheers

Matt

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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:49 pm
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You are correct Ed   I think Nigel is trying to build up an overall picture of exactly what Kevin has where.

Brian



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 06:59 pm
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Hi Kevin,


There could be serious consequences if you wired them like that.

Don't panic Captain Mannering, don't panic...

It's Multimeter time!!! Turn that ootoob off, it's mostly full of questionable or dubious advice meant IMO to deliberately mess up whatever you are doing. Project Binky and Martin excepted. Get down the shops and buy a new battery. Support the Chinese economy. Might help Hornby's QC issues.

Order a decent basic and fused DC controller, essential even if you are DCC. Better to wreck one of those than that Powercab which does not have any surge protection. Whatsoever. Nada. Zilch. Rien. Nichts. Nihil. Nowt.

Nigel



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:00 pm
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Barchester wrote: Ed all we know at the moment is with the boards connected together there is a fault. If Kevin disconnects the red wires from both points on ONE board the fault disappears. I've asked Kevin to draw a diagram of the wiring of all the point switches and once we gave that I'll get Kevin to photograph it and then we will get some photos uploaded. Then it will be all heads together to see if we can find where the fault is ?
Cheers

Matt
Which red wires on what points quest:

Without a picture, we're all working in the dark exclam:


Ed



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:03 pm
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BCDR wrote: Hi Kevin,

There could be serious consequences if you wired them like that.

Don't panic Captain Mannering, don't panic...

It's Multimeter time!!! Turn that ootoob off, it's mostly full of questionable or dubious advice meant IMO to deliberately mess up whatever you are doing. Project Binky and Martin excepted. Get down the shops and buy a new battery. Support the Chinese economy. Might help Hornby's QC issues.

Order a decent basic and fused DC controller, essential even if you are DCC. Better to wreck one of those than that Powercab which does have any surge protection.

Nigel

Me give up :thud



Ed



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:06 pm
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BCDR wrote: Hi Kevin,

There could be serious consequences if you wired them like that.

Don't panic Captain Mannering, don't panic...

It's Multimeter time!!! Turn that ootoob off, it's mostly full of questionable or dubious advice meant IMO to deliberately mess up whatever you are doing. Project Binky and Martin excepted. Get down the shops and buy a new battery. Support the Chinese economy. Might help Hornby's QC issues.

Order a decent basic and fused DC controller, essential even if you are DCC. Better to wreck one of those than that Powercab which does have any surge protection.

Nigel
Hi Nigel What serious consequences? Wired like what? The YouTube polarity tester, worked for me before.Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:10 pm
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Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. The red wire from the DPDT Slide switches to the red bus. Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:12 pm
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Me thinks we all need to wait for Matt to make contact with kevin so the photos Kevin has taken can be uploaded so then we can see what is what as at the moment we are all working in the dark as Ed has said.

Brian



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